Proceedings in the
Douglas Fir Room

The House in Committee, Section A.

The committee met at 11:13 a.m.

[George Anderson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of
Children and Family Development
(continued)

The Chair: Good afternoon, Members. I call Committee of Supply, Section A, to order. We are meeting today to continue the consideration of the budget estimates of the Ministry of Children and Family Development.

On Vote 18: ministry operations, $2,442,836,000 (continued).

Heather Maahs: I’m going to revisit a question I asked. I asked about missing Indigenous children and youth, and the response was “zero.” However, I have statistics that state — and this is from the RCY report — 54.4 percent of young people reported as lost or missing from care were Indigenous. Also, I have a stat that says Indigenous females were found to be overrepresented among young people reported lost or missing, 62 percent. And 32.9 percent of Indigenous children were reported lost or missing more than once.

So I’m just wondering if we could revisit that question in light of these numbers that are from this report.

[11:15 a.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens: The question yesterday, as I recall it, from the member, was how many children in care are currently missing, and I answered that question appropriately.

Hon. Jodie Wickens: The question yesterday, as I recall it from the member, was how many children in care are currently missing, and I answered that question appropriately.

Heather Maahs: All right. Well, I’ll move to a different line of questioning.

What is the role of the new Indigenous child welfare director position, and how does this portfolio provide oversight and accountability to Indigenous children and youth in care?

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I am actually quite honoured to have the opportunity to talk about Jeremy Y’in Neduklhchulh Williams, his role as our Indigenous child welfare director. It is the very first Indigenous child welfare director in Canada. There are a number of really important things to point out with respect to the ADM’s role.

The new Indigenous child welfare director furthers our commitment to reduce the overrepresentation of Indigenous children and youth in our care, to keep children and youth connected to their families, their culture, their languages. Jeremy provides advice and guidance on crucial Indigenous child and family service decisions.

Jeremy will also work to support Indigenous jurisdiction through upholding the UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous Peoples and harmonizing the rights and laws of Indigenous people with our provincial laws.

By changing the way that we do this work, we truly are transforming our child welfare system, and that aligns with the calls of the Truth and Reconciliation calls to action and supporting better outcomes for Indigenous children, youth and their families.

On November 24, 2022, Bill 38, Indigenous Self-Government in Child and Family Services Amendment Act was passed into law, making amendments to the Adoption Act and the Child, Family and Community Service Act. This included the provision to create an Indigenous child welfare director within the ministry, long advocated for by Indigenous partners, including the First Nations Leadership Council and Métis Nation B.C.

The role includes three main areas of responsibility, practice and oversight support. The director is responsible for enhancing and improving oversight of practice to Indigenous children, youth and families. Jeremy is responsible for supporting and deepening culturally safe and trauma-informed practice ground in Indigenous worldview and cultures.

[11:20 a.m.]

Another area of responsibility is partnership and advisory, so responsible for working in partnership with Indigenous people, to be guided by their communities and priorities for child and family services

in Indigenous world view and cultures.

Another area of responsibility is partnership and advisory: so, responsible for working in partnership with Indigenous people, to be guided by their communities and priorities for child and family services and Indigenous jurisdiction, which we’ve canvassed quite a bit; responsible for working across MCFD to provide guidance how policies, processes, practices and operations can be aligned and better support Indigenous jurisdiction.

It’s a really important role. It’s a role that we’re very proud of to have at MCFD, and I’m very proud of the work that Jeremy and his team is doing.

Heather Maahs: When did this work commence?

Hon. Jodie Wickens: There were years of consultation and development of the role and the responsibilities. It was really important for us to work with our Indigenous partners, Indigenous leadership to ensure that we got it right.

As far as when the position actually began, September 30 of 2024, on Orange Shirt Day.

Heather Maahs: What is the reporting structure for this position? Who reports to the director, and who does the director report to?

Hon. Jodie Wickens: The Indigenous child welfare director is an assistant deputy minister position, and so that position reports to the deputy minister.

[11:25 a.m.]

The division is a growing division. This is a new position and a new division. The Deputy Minister of Indigenous Child Welfare supports our 25 Indigenous child and family service agencies in the province and also supports our work with respect to jurisdiction under our

new position and a new division. The Deputy Minister of Indigenous Child Welfare supports our 25 Indigenous child and family service agencies in the province and also supports our work with respect to jurisdiction under our DRIPA action plan and our commitments to truth and reconciliation.

Heather Maahs: To the minister: what is the budget allocation for this new position, directorship?

Hon. Jodie Wickens: All compensation for ADMs and ministry executives is publicly disclosed and is within the ministry’s budget. The ADM for Indigenous Child Welfare would not be any different than any other ADM in our ministry.

Heather Maahs: What would that be?

[11:30 a.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I’m going to provide the member with the range of salaries for an assistant deputy minister, which is publicly available. I do have to caution…. I am uncomfortable with the line of questioning around what the salary is for an Indigenous child welfare director, because I believe that our compensation is publicly available. It isn’t any different for any one assistant deputy minister versus another. There is a range based on qualifications and experience and so the range of salary for an assistant deputy minister is $196,300 to $243,800.

Heather Maahs: I’m not really clear on why there’s uncomfortableness with giving me an answer to a question, which is public information, regardless of race or creed or any position. That should be public information, because it is public taxpayer money that is paying for it.

Upon hearing that, would the minister like to be more transparent?

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I have provided the salary range. We have talked about that it is publicly disclosed. My personal

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I have provided the salary range. We have talked about that it is publicly disclosed. My personal discomfort with the line of questioning is that I went through the purpose of the role, the historic nature of the role, our commitments to truth and reconciliation, our DRIPA action plan, and I have yet to receive a question on the salary of executives on any part of my ministry up until this point. So I think the context is really important and I think it lays the groundwork for telling a story.

We compensate our leaders and our executives, and that compensation is disclosed publicly. I think the value of the role is transformational, and so I am expressing my discomfort with the line of questioning. That is my personal discomfort with the line of questioning. The salaries are available to you online.

Heather Maahs: To the minister: well, that’s very disappointing that you’re refusing to answer this question. Regardless of the…. Actually, it’s more pertinent with all of the responsibility given to this position, and I’m actually quite surprised that in estimates where our job is to question the minister about the budget…. This is a new position, a brand new position, and I think the public deserves a straightforward answer. This shouldn’t be difficult. So, am I going to be forced at this point to file an FOI in order to get that information?

Interjection.

Heather Maahs: Excuse me? Are we weighing in from the gallery? Thank you.

So that’s my question. Am I now forced to file an FOI to receive this information?

The Chair: Member, the minister was very clear that she answered the question. You may not like the answer to the question, but you may want to revise the way that you’re asking the question. Then she may be able to give you a different answer; but that being said, the minister has been very clear that she’s given an answer. You asked the same question again, she stated her response, and that’s the end of it. If you would like to ask a different question, please go ahead.

Heather Maahs: All right, perhaps the minister would like to share whether or not this salary is based on the upper or the lower end of the scale that was given as an answer.

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I just want to make sure that the member opposite understands that compensation for executive is determined through the Public Service Agency, that public accounts will disclose the salaries of public servants, that decisions for compensations are made based on a variety of criteria.

I have been generously provided permission to share with you that the salary for this position is on the lower range of that range that I provided.

Heather Maahs: Thank you, hon. Chair and through you to the minister, well, thank you. I appreciate that answer and I am very familiar with PSEC, who does oversee salaries and wage benefits, from my time on the board.

I’m going to ask you now how many ADMs work for the Ministry of Children and Family Development.

The Chair: Member, just a reminder that your questions are through the Chair. Thank you.

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I did the introduction at the beginning of estimates where I introduced everyone, and we have seven ADMs in the Ministry of Children and Family Development.

Heather Maahs: Thank you, hon. Chair. Through you to the minister, forgive me for not remembering the number that you gave in your opening. Seven. Thank you very much.

Can you tell us what their salaries are?

[11:45 a.m.]

Hon. Jodie Wickens: As I mentioned to the member previously and she acknowledged that all salaries are determined by the Public Service Agency through a variety of decision-making factors that are separate

Hon. Jodie Wickens: As I mentioned to the member previously and she acknowledged, all salaries are determined by the Public Service Agency through a variety of decision-making factors that are separate from my role as the minister. We also publicly disclose all salaries over $75,000 through public accounts, and that’s available to see. We can certainly pull that up for the member opposite and provide it to her because it would have every ADM and deputy minister, my salary. It would have everybody’s salary on there for her or the public to see.

I would also say executive and support services is in the budget. It has minimally changed year over year. The change in that number, I would say, would be in alignment with inflation and regular increases to salaries and benefits. I don’t have the exact numbers, but surely I can pull that up after estimates.

The Chair: I ask the minister to move the motion.

Hon. Jodie Wickens: I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair: Thank you, Members. This committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 11:46 a.m.