Fifth Session, 42nd Parliament (2024)
OFFICIAL REPORT
OF DEBATES
(HANSARD)
Thursday, May 9, 2024
Morning Sitting
Issue No. 433
ISSN 1499-2175
The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.
The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.
CONTENTS
Routine Business | |
Orders of the Day | |
Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room | |
Proceedings in the Birch Room | |
THURSDAY, MAY 9, 2024
The House met at 10:04 a.m.
[The Speaker in the chair.]
Routine Business
Prayers and reflections: Hon. S. Malcolmson.
Introductions by Members
N. Simons: I would like to wish a colleague of mine a happy birthday today. I don’t know why I’m choking up. It’s not my birthday.
I’ve known him since May 17, 2005. We’ve been friends since then, and we’ll be friends for life — my colleague and everyone’s friend, the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan.
Happy birthday, Doug.
M. Dykeman: Speaking of birthdays, today is a very special day. Twenty-one years ago, on this day, I became a mom for the first time. I gave birth to an adorable 6-pound-7-ounce bundle of joy. I had no idea what I was getting myself into, but I am the luckiest parent on the planet.
I’m now the mother of a 6 foot 9, 240-pound boy with size 17 shoes. I look at him, and there’s no resemblance, but he is the kindest, sweetest, most amazing human. I’ve learned far more from him than he’s learned from me.
I’m wondering if the House could please join me in wishing him a very happy 21st birthday.
Happy birthday, A.J.
Hon. G. Lore: I’m joined today by students from Vic High and their teacher Mr. Bradley. I had the chance to go to Vic High with the Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy and talk to some of the incredible student leaders there and have a conversation. I wanted to provide an opportunity, as we’re in the capital, to come to this place to see how this works. The parliamentary secretary for youth, some version of that title, and I are going to have lunch with them today. It’s just such an honour to be joined in this space by youth who are interested and engaged, and have an opportunity to have that conversation.
I’m also joined today by my constituency advisers, Erin Willis and Adriana Thom.
I know all members of this House know what it means to have your folks on the ground and in community to support the work and connect.
Will the House please help me make these students, Mr. Bradley and my CAs welcome.
D. Davies: I’m delighted to welcome a very good friend of mine to the House today, Bobbi Wisdahl. She lived down here, and then she moved to Fort St. John for a number of years, and now she’s back down here. It’s really great that she took the time to come down and visit with all of us and watch the happenings. I believe it’s her first time watching question period, at least live.
Will the House please make Bobbi feel welcome.
R. Leonard: Today is the birthday of the first child born of all of my friends and relatives of my generation. She works in the Premier’s office. She is the mother of an amazing little boy that I get to call “the Big O.” He calls me Auntie Rae, and he sometimes visits the House.
Would the House please wish Kate Van Meer-Mass a very happy birthday.
Hon. M. Dean: Tomorrow is Child Care Provider Appreciation Day. Please take the opportunity to reach out to child care professionals in your community. In celebration of that, we have some in the House here today from the Cridge Centre. The Cridge Centre is a non-profit community social service organization that has been serving the community of Victoria for over 150 years.
Who do we have today? We have Timothy Latour, the school-age-care preschool coordinator; Danielle Robbins, the infant-toddler coordinator; Jennifer Hunter, the daycare coordinator; Angela Brunwald, ECE daycare; Tanya Kuhn, ECE preschool; and Christine Wosilius, the manager.
Would you please make them very welcome and show you appreciation for their work.
Hon. R. Fleming: I am so pleased to see a group of high school students and their teacher joining us in the gallery today. Mr. Brad Cunningham and 13 or 14 senior students from Reynolds Secondary School are here. They are part of what is called the flex studies program, which is an incredible program that teaches kids about government, social issues, business, commerce and navigating the ways of society.
It is a great group of students. They are no strangers here to the Legislature. In fact, I think, thanks to Mr. Cunningham, we have probably tripled the number of senior high school students that actually come to the Legislative Assembly.
I would ask all members of the House to make the most welcome here today.
F. Donnelly: I’d like to introduce one of my constituency advisers, Justin Smith, who is here with us today. Justin works in my constituency office, along with the fabulous Linda Asgeirsson, the dynamic Melody Mohebkhah and the connector, Perisa Chan. They are an amazing team, and I’m so lucky to have such a talented staff.
Justin is super psyched to watch question period today. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the chamber floor in the future. Justin got a taste of politics when he ran for council in the last municipal election. He says he’s learned a lot since then and is looking forward to future opportunities.
I wish him the best of luck, and would the House please make him welcome.
N. Simons: Even after 19 years, I’ve never had the opportunity to wish two people a happy birthday on the same day. In fact, it’s the first birthday of my youngest nephew, Auguste, who was born a year ago today.
I want to wish him a happy birthday.
Statements
HEALTH CARE AUXILIARY DAY
AND DELTA HOSPITAL AUXILIARY
I. Paton: It just came to my mind that tomorrow is Health Care Auxiliary Day. I just want to shout out to…. There are many hospital auxiliaries across the province, but the best one is the Delta Hospital Auxiliary. My mom, who’s going to be 97 in August, still goes one day a week to volunteer at the Delta Hospital Auxiliary Thrift Shop in Ladner.
Interjection.
I. Paton: I’m third. She’s first, Pam is second, and I’m third.
The Delta Hospital Auxiliary is donating $3 million to the new extended care ward that we’re going to get built and $700,000 this year to new equipment at Delta Hospital.
So a big shout-out to everyone involved in volunteering for your hospital auxiliaries across B.C.
Introduction and
First Reading of Bills
BILL M221 — FAMILY COMPENSATION
AMENDMENT ACT,
2024
M. Bernier presented a bill intituled Family Compensation Amendment Act, 2024.
M. Bernier: I move that the bill intituled the Family Compensation Amendment Act, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read for the first time now.
Logan Power was a vibrant young man in Dawson Creek attending secondary school in 2016. But tragically, his life was cut short by a suspected drunk driver. Despite their profound loss, Logan’s family received no compensation, simply because Logan did not meet the narrow economic criteria recognized under the discriminatory existing laws.
This is, unfortunately, not an isolated case in British Columbia. Under the B.C. Family Compensation Act, the lives of children, seniors, those with disabilities and those without dependents are actually considered worthless when they are killed.
British Columbia stands as an outlier. Many other provinces have modernized their laws to reflect a more comprehensive understanding of loss and accountability of wrongful deaths. Our laws have not been updated in alignment with these changes, leaving many British Columbians unprotected and their families, like the Powers, without recourse.
Logan’s law proposes to correct these injustices by expanding eligibility for claims and adjusting compensation levels to align more closely with the realities of wrongful deaths. This includes allowing parents, siblings or dependents to claim compensation in the event of a wrongful death. This compensation will help families cover expenses, medical and funeral costs, travel, accommodation and other costs incurred while caring for the injured person before their death.
It also helps align British Columbia with other provinces, which have already updated their laws to address the consequences of wrongful deaths more comprehensively.
The bill introduces necessary changes that were recommended by the Ministry of Attorney General back in 2010, addressing critical gaps that have allowed these injustices to persist. It will ensure that all families, regardless of the economic status of their loved ones, can seek and obtain justice.
People are increasingly aware of these issues and demand that we take decisive action to reform our wrongful death compensation laws, and it’s time for us to ensure that this justice is accessible for every family touched by this tragedy.
The Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill.
Motion approved.
M. Bernier: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.
Bill M221, Family Compensation Amendment Act, 2024, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.
Statements
(Standing Order 25B)
PROJECT HOPE AND
SUPPORT FOR ALS
RESEARCH
S. Bond: On April 26, both the Minister of Health and I attended a remarkable event at the UBC Centre for Brain Health. Project Hope has been driven by ALS patients, their families, caregivers, the ALS Society of B.C. and successive governments.
Project Hope has been described as a beacon of light in the fight against ALS, and I could not agree more. Under the leadership of neurologist and ALS researcher Dr. Erik Pioro, a world-class ALS clinical care team will be assembled. They will be the cornerstone of Project Hope and will allow ALS patients to participate in groundbreaking clinical trials and research endeavours, all with the goal of finding a cure for ALS.
The ALS Society describes Project Hope as more than a project. Rather, it is a movement towards understanding, treating and ultimately defeating ALS. It is a bold and ambitious plan and journey.
Attending the event was Dr. Andrew Eisen, who founded the ALS Society of British Columbia. He is a distinguished ALS physician-scientist. There were ALS board members and, perhaps most importantly, some who have been impacted directly by ALS, and families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives to ALS. It was an emotional day for all of us.
Yes, we are inspired by the hope that this work brings, but our hearts hurt for those who will not see the direct benefits of the incredible work that will be done by Dr. Pioro and his team. We also want to recognize the tireless efforts of Wendy Toyer. She was a significant part of reaching this milestone.
It has been a dream of many to bring an end to ALS through creating a world-class ALS centre at UBC. After listening to Dr. Pioro share his vision and passion, I have every confidence that British Columbia, fuelled by hope and driven by science, will play a pivotal role in making a difference in the lives of those affected by this devastating disease.
EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS WEEK
R. Leonard: This week is Emergency Preparedness Week, and since technology sure plays a part in all of our lives, this year’s theme is “Using technology before, during and after emergencies.”
You never know how you will react when the adrenaline rush hits, and being ready beforehand will help keep you safe.
With wildfire season coming up, it’s a good time to get to know the hazards in your community, make your emergency plan and build an emergency kit and grab-and-go bag. And hot off the presses, you can get started with our brand-new online emergency-ready planner at preparedbc.ca/emergencyready. It’ll help make it faster and easier to create an emergency and evacuation plan that’s tailored to you and your family.
The planner helps people identify emergency meeting places and document important contact, medical and insurance information. It recommends supplies for your emergency kits and grab-and-go bags, as well as FireSmart steps to protect your home from wildfire. Make a date with your loved ones to play with the planner, so when you hear the B.C. emergency alert on your cell phone or radio or on television, like you received on Wednesday morning at 10:55, you’ll all be ready.
B.C. is forecasted to have an active wildfire season, and places like Vancouver Island are not immune to the risk. You can access the B.C. Wildfire app to keep abreast of wildfire conditions, fire bans, evacuation alerts and orders.
Our government also has a new online portal to help emergency responders find commercial accommodation for evacuees. These new and improved tools are released by our government as part of Emergency Preparedness Week to help keep people safe through wildfires, droughts, floods and earthquakes.
There’s no time like the present to do your part to get prepared for the unexpected.
CHILD AND YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH DAY
K. Kirkpatrick: May 7 was National Child and Youth Mental Health Day. It’s really meant as a time for us to come together and to recognize that there are significant mental health challenges that are faced by our children and our youth. It’s really a time for us to pledge to help and support.
It’s a really different time than it was when most of us in the House here were younger and were going to school. There’s social media now. Social media has its good and bad pieces, but for many young people, it can be…. It’s an opportunity to be bullied.
There are all kinds of things there that are challenging and concerning — climate change. These young people…. I don’t think we realize enough how much climate change weighs on their shoulders every day and causes a lot of anxiety.
I was speaking to one of our interns last week. She’s 22, and she was talking about the fact that we all walk around with AirPods on now, right? And we can sit…. You know, you go into a room, and there are people around, and you sit there, and you just don’t have conversations anymore. So for young people, our technology has started to disconnect them from people.
She said something that really made me think about this. I hope she doesn’t mind, because I didn’t know I was going to talk about this until just now. It’s that we went from having a large social circle as a young person, and now it’s really limited, and a lot of it is because of the AirPods and the not talking to people. Everything is done via text. That can be quite concerning, because we need to have those supports as a young person.
We heard from Take a Hike the other day that, really, we don’t have enough mental health supports in schools for young people. We owe them that. They are our future, and we need to make sure that we’re holding them up and treating them well and giving them the supports that they need. They need early support and resources in schools.
Together, let’s help our young people, lift them up and give them the support they need.
CAREGIVER MONTH
AND SUPPORT FOR
CAREGIVERS
H. Sandhu: I rise in this House to recognize May being Caregiver Month and to honour all the hard work and dedication that caregivers offer around the clock in our province and around the world.
Caregivers are some of the most caring people in this world. They always think about the well-being of people in their care, and they can sometimes forget their own needs. We cannot imagine the world and care without caregivers.
Often what we see about their sacrifices, dedication and hard work is just the tip of the iceberg. It takes lots of patience, kindness, care, hard work and dedication to become a caregiver. While we recognize caregivers today to honour them, we also need to reflect on and create awareness about caregiver burnout. Their work includes many sleepless nights and countless hours spent supporting their loved ones. I want to acknowledge this and let people know that supports are available around the province.
Our government has invested in, in Budget 2024, the expansion of the family and friend caregivers support program. This program provides support for caregiver assistance, navigating the health care system as well as learning how to take care of your own well-being while caring for someone close to you. We also continue to expand culturally appropriate adult day programs in the province. These programs not only improve the lives and socialization of seniors but also benefit caregivers.
If you are a caregiver or know a caregiver, please help to support them and increase awareness of family and friend caregivers. Family Caregivers of B.C. is also a great resource. They offer supports to caregivers by telephone or online, in-person or virtual meetings and providing resources. I urge you to go to www.familycaregiversbc.ca.
Please join me in recognizing family and friend caregivers in our province and across the country for the selfless, tireless, exceptional care they provide and honouring their role in so many people’s lives.
PARLIAMENTARY MACE
AND POWER IN
DEMOCRACY
A. Olsen: For the past year, I’ve been doing this work as an MLA, and I’ve also been doing graduate studies in leadership at Royal Roads University. I wrote a paper recently focused on power and our relationship as MLAs to power.
Think of all the ways that you intersect with power. It was a profound experience for me to think on this, and the ceremonial mace was a central feature of the work that I did. How many of us have thought about the mace, the type of power that’s symbolized in that mace? Each day it arrives, carried by our Sergeant-at-Arms, leading a procession of the Speaker and Clerks. Ever wondered why?
The mace, also known as a bludgeon, is a modified club, often reinforced with stone, bone, bronze or iron. It’s from the Dark Ages, and our silver one here was made in the 1950s. There is no law or decree that started the Speaker’s procession or giving the ceremonial mace its power. The power comes from what happens when you get bludgeoned by a mace.
In the 14th to 15th century, mayors of British towns had sergeants-at-arms who carried a mace and for protection for arrests. It was also the sergeant’s standard weapon of choice at the time. In 1414, Henry V appointed Nicholas Maudit the Sergeant-at-Arms for Westminster, and like the mayors he had seen around, he brought with him his mace. Interesting.
The Speaker at the time was simply just the mouthpiece of the Commons.
I’m sorry, Mr. Speaker.
When the Speaker got the protection of the Sergeant and the mace, its power in the mace transferred to the Speaker. And centuries later, in this Speaker’s precinct, what the Speaker says goes.
Power moves in mysterious ways, and the power represented in the mace is a brutish, thuggish, primitive sort of power. Is that the expression of power that we want our democracy represented by?
ADHD AWARENESS
J. Rice: Today I rise to talk about an often-not-talked-about issue of ADHD. ADHD is often classified or diagnosed as a mental health disorder, but in fact it’s a neurological development disorder, meaning that the brain is formed not neurotypically, so it’s something that you have from birth. It was misunderstood for a long time as a behavioural disorder, which we know it is not.
Unfortunately, because some of the symptoms seem like they are very easy to treat by neurotypical people, it’s led to kids with ADHD having heard 20,000 times more negative comments or input than a neurotypical child. So by age 12, if you have ADHD, you have heard 20,000 more negative comments.
They can be really benign. A parent could think this is the right thing to do. Why have you forgotten your homework again? How could you lose your keys again? Why can’t you just sit still? While we think these are normal parenting comments, they are in fact quite harmful.
An ADHD brain looks differentl it’s formed differently. A main key factor is the fact that the dopamine receptors — there’s a dysregulation with that. Twenty-eight percent of people who are referred to a mood disorders clinic for depression or anxiety…. Twenty-eight percent actually have untreated ADHD. Physicians and doctors, very informed on prescribing medications such as SSRIs for depression and anxiety — however, not educated enough on ADHD.
I wanted to conclude with this saying, which is very relatable. I think of Melanie Mark, who when she departed here, talked about her invisible disability of ADHD. It’s like how could someone’s ADHD go undiagnosed for so long because they are a high-functioning, overachieving woman, constantly bordering on burnout but seen as fine. Because as long as that woman didn’t burn out, no one really noticed. Functioning, but not fine.
I think that is something we all need to know if you’re neurotypical. That is something that non-neurotypicals are struggling with every single day.
Oral Questions
GOVERNMENT ACTION ON
HOUSING
AFFORDABILITY
K. Falcon: Shocking new data from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. reveals that last year less than one in ten mortgages in our province were issued to first-time homebuyers. B.C. has the lowest rate in the entire country. Our kids are losing hope as their dream of ever owning a home vanished under this NDP Premier and his total failure to deliver results on his promise of housing affordability for our kids.
B.C. United has a plan to fix it by turning rent payments into down payments with our rent-to-own plan.
My question to the Premier: when will this Premier finally deliver results by adopting B.C. United’s rent-to-own plan and bring back hope that our kids can one day purchase a home, raise a family, and build a future right here in British Columbia?
Hon. R. Kahlon: No doubt we can agree in this House that people across this province, across this country need to be able to have a place either to rent at an affordable rate, or those that rent have the ability to move into home ownership. We, I think, all support that notion.
What’s needed to do that are reforms. The housing system, as it is now, is not working for too many people in our province. We have young families, young people who don’t see an opportunity or a pathway to get into home ownership. That’s why the measures that we put in, with our Homes for People strategy, addresses all those levers.
The member shared some data. I can share with the member that B.C. is building 2.5 times more housing than Ontario, adjusted for their size. In fact, our government is seeing 150 percent more units per resident than the PC government in Ontario.
The measures we’re doing, putting in place and allowing three- to four-unit single-family lots, allowing for housing to be built near transit, reforming our system so that people can have an opportunity to stay in our communities, grow in our communities, are something we’re committed to, and we’re leading the country in that work.
K. Falcon: There in that answer lies the problem, for all the folks that are here listening, because they believe that government is the solution to every problem, when they don’t realize that government is the problem. The fact of the matter is the result they’re getting in British Columbia is that we have the highest, most unaffordable housing prices in North America, the highest average rents in Canada. That’s the result that their government-first approach is getting us.
Eighteen months ago the Premier promised results that people could touch, see and experience — 18 months ago. What parents are experiencing across British Columbia is watching their children have to leave B.C. in search of affordability, a fact that was highlighted by the Alberta government ads, last night on the Canucks hockey game, enticing more young British Columbians to move to Alberta, the land increasingly seen as opportunity.
Last year alone — I hear the snickering over on that side of the House — 70,000 young British Columbians moved to Alberta. Why? It’s because Alberta has lower taxes. Alberta has affordable housing. Alberta offers the kind of opportunity that used to exist here in British Columbia. We need to give our kids hope again, which is why our B.C. United plan is about turning rent payments into down payments…
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members.
K. Falcon: …and helping young people get back into housing and believe they’ve got a future in B.C.
Again, when will the Premier finally deliver results — not announcements, results — so they can adopt an option that will work: B.C. United’s plan, our rent-to-own plan to turn rent payments into down payments and help our young people have an opportunity to own a home, raise a family and build a future right here in British Columbia?
Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, I think all members of this House can agree that people that are renting should have an opportunity to buy a home. That’s why, when we brought the legislation in place last fall to allow three or four units on single-family lots, they opposed it. They opposed it. They didn’t want to see those types of opportunities being created, opportunities for multi-generational families to be able to live on one parcel of land.
Now, the member talks about people and moving to different provinces. We have 10,000 people coming to B.C., net, every 37 days — 10,000.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh.
Hon. R. Kahlon: The Leader of the B.C. United says, “Oh, they’re coming internationally.” People are coming to British Columbia for opportunity. It’s one of the strongest economies in the country. People are coming here for opportunities.
Now, the leader of the BCU party here says: “You know what? We’re going to do what we did before.” He’s going to dust off the old playbook. Hon. Speaker, you can go to Vancouver and visit a place called Little Mountain, and you can see the legacy of this member here and his colleagues in full action. People of British Columbia cannot afford to head back in that direction again.
R. Merrifield: Well, news flash to the minister: we actually have the third-worst economy in all of Canada right now. Yeah, a bummer about that one.
Today the Bank of Canada is warning of a steep jump in mortgage payments due to rising interest costs. Who’s to blame? Well, Scotiabank confirmed that the majority of interest rate hikes are the direct result of provincial inflationary deficits like the record-setting ones created by this NDP.
It’s no wonder why nearly 70,000 of our children, youth and young professionals left for Alberta last year. They can’t afford a mortgage or rent. B.C. United’s rent-to-own plan through new homes frees up rental apartments and takes pressure off the housing market.
When will the Premier finally deliver results by adopting B.C. United’s rent-to-own plan and bring back hope that our kids desperately need to one day purchase their own home and raise their own families right here in B.C.?
Hon. R. Kahlon: We share that commitment of wanting to see young people be able to stay in our province, to be able to raise their families in communities that they grew up in. That’s why we brought such bold action into the Legislature last fall.
They opposed many of those initiatives. They opposed most of those initiatives, and it was a shame, because now those very initiatives that we have as part of our Homes for People strategy are being adopted across the country. In fact, the federal government has said, “We’re going to tie infrastructure funding, if you do the work that B.C. is doing,” in communities throughout the province.
I’ll share another interesting fact for them. They say people are going to Alberta. You know who’s coming from Alberta? Doctors, nurses. You look at the data. I’m happy to share it with the member across the way.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Thank you.
Hon. R. Kahlon: We are seeing doctors and nurses coming to British Columbia.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh. Shhh.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I’ll end with this, hon. Speaker. The member mentions Scotiabank.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I can share with the member that the CEO of Scotiabank was an author of a report on how to address the housing crisis in Ontario. We have adopted all the policies that the CEO suggested, and they’re looking to B.C. as a leader in the country when it comes to reforms needed to ensure there’s housing available for people in British Columbia.
The Speaker: Member for Kelowna-Mission, supplemental.
R. Merrifield: I think that the minister needs to get outside of the echo chamber, because the very initiatives that he’s mentioning are creating housing chaos within our municipalities. How do we know? Housing starts in Q1 are down in B.C. High taxes, high fees and high rents are causing our kids to give up and move to Alberta.
According to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp., the average two-bedroom rental will soon reach $2,800 in Metro Vancouver, up $1,000 a month from 2021. But the best that the NDP Premier and this Housing Minister can offer is a BC Builds plan adding less than 1 percent of the 700,000 homes that CMHC says are needed to restore affordability.
Why won’t the Premier adopt the B.C. United plan to turn rent payments into down payments and give young people hope again?
Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, everyone in this place…
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh. Members.
Hon. R. Kahlon: …supports the idea of somebody renting getting into home ownership. In fact, the federal Liberals, in their platform, committed to a program similar to what they’ve announced. They’ve had challenges rolling it out. They’ve had challenges rolling it out because they know that it’s a very difficult proposal to move forward. But that being said, the principle is something we support as well.
What I’ll say to the member…. She mentioned CMHC data. CMHC says we’re building 2½ times more housing than Ontario — 2½ times. CMHC’s March 2024 monthly housing reports has this information. I’m happy to share with the member.
We know that the system that we have for housing is not working for too many people. For too many years, we had governments — in fact, the former B.C. Liberal Party, governments like them — who decided: “You know what? We’re not going to invest in the affordable housing that people need. We’re going to just stay out of the way and, somehow, this is going to solve itself.”
We’ve seen that failed policy and the outcomes that come from that. I think British Columbians are ready for the actions that we’re taking. In fact, I know they are, because we’re getting messages from people and leaders across the country who are saying: “We would like to replicate the initiatives that you are taking on to ensure that our communities have housing that they need as well.”
TAX POLICIES AND WEALTH INEQUALITY
S. Furstenau: With close to half a billion dollars being earmarked for seven FIFA games, it is important to ask: “Who benefits from government spending?” FIFA is not designed for most British Columbians. While the wealthiest will enjoy the fanfare, the majority of people will be footing the bill while we watch from our living rooms.
Meanwhile, B.C. has the lowest taxes on people who earn $150,000 or more, making a mockery of our progressive taxation system and eliminating that most Canadian value: fairness. British Columbians are struggling to get by, struggling to afford housing, struggling to buy their groceries, and programs like SAFER, disability supports and the Canada-B.C. rental benefit don’t provide enough of a safety net.
My question is to the Premier. Will his government commit to tackling income inequality head-on by adjusting our highest tax rate brackets to fall in line with other provinces so that the highest earners pay their fair share?
Hon. R. Kahlon: Here we have it. One party says that we have taxes too high, another party confirming that we actually have some of the lowest taxes for people earning less than $150,000 a year.
The member asks about FIFA. I’ll say this.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members. Shhh.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I’ll say this about FIFA. We are going to be welcoming the world to British Columbia. This is one of the premier events in the world. The member says: “Who is going to benefit?” It’s going to benefit our communities. It’s going to benefit our local economies. We’re going to welcome people. It’s going to support our tourism economy.
We have partners — xʷməθkʷəy̓əm, Sḵwx̱wú7mesh, səlilwətaɬ — who are excited because it means economic opportunities for those nations. Everyone is going to find benefits from this.
Interjection.
The Speaker: Shhh.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I certainly hope that all members in this place are able to use this to also promote sports and promote physical activity amongst our youth. There are so many valuable things that come from promoting sport. I believe in it strongly. My colleagues believe in it strongly.
But at the same time, we are also increasing funding for SAFER. We are increasing programs for people. We can do both, and that’s what we are committed to on this side of the House.
The Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.
S. Furstenau: My question was about income tax brackets for the highest earners in British Columbia. Inequality has gotten so bad that we now casually talk about the cost of living, the cost of just meeting basic needs to stay alive.
This government’s failure to address wealth inequality is evident not only in its willingness to fund FIFA but not to ensure that everybody in B.C. has housing. While people struggle, the oil and gas sector keeps taking record profits. The federal government’s failure to bring in a windfall profit tax means that $4.6 billion in revenues, that could help all of these people who need it across this country and in this province, was just left off the table. Instead of meeting the basic needs of people in B.C., this government has subsidized the dirtiest industry in the world.
My question again is to the Premier. Will the Premier commit to advocating for a windfall profit tax on the oil and gas sector?
Hon. R. Kahlon: There were many comments made in that question. I’ll start with housing. There is no government in this country that is investing at the levels we are into affordable housing. We are the only province that’s funding housing for Indigenous people on and off reserve. We have funding available for communities throughout the province. We have projects opening everywhere.
The member talks about inequality. I can assure the member that every one of my colleagues got into politics to address inequality. We want to make sure that our neighbours have the same opportunities that we want for our own families, for our own kids. That’s why we’ve taken measures to reduce taxes for working people, people making below $150,000 a year. We took those steps because we understand that working people need supports.
We have many more initiatives that we’re going to be doing in the future, but we are committed, I can assure that member, to addressing inequality in all of our work that we do.
GOVERNMENT POLICIES
AND REHIRING OF HEALTH CARE
STAFF
B. Banman: This Premier’s NDP are radical activists out to shape British Columbia for their own extreme image.
This Premier and his government stand for taking away the rights of women to be safe and treated fairly, taking away the rights of parents to be involved in their children’s education, taking away the rights of landowners who are following local zoning, taking away the rights of communities by overriding official community plans, taking away the rights of people who voice opinions over housing decisions, taking away the rights of people to choose what kind of vehicle to own, taking away the rights of people to access Crown land and private property, taking away the rights of nurses and health care workers to be employed and taking away the rights of people to access health care in a timely manner.
The list goes on and on and on. It seems like this NDP Premier hasn’t found any private rights that he respects. And he’s gambling with B.C.’s future by running the largest deficits in B.C.’s history, not just last year or this year but for the foreseeable future.
My question to the Premier: will this Premier start giving rights back to everyday, hard-working people instead of taking them away? He can start by hiring our health care workers.
Hon. A. Dix: Obviously, I disagree with the member’s characterization. In British Columbia, we believed during the COVID-19 pandemic, and in supporting people in health care, that we needed to support people in long-term care, that we needed to support health care workers. We did so in an unprecedented way, I might add with the unanimous support, for most of that period, of this Legislature. I’m very proud of that.
We continue to act. We talked about doctors and nurses earlier. We continue to act, consistent with the Public Health Act, to support our public health professionals in B.C., who have done an outstanding job, a world-leading job in dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic.
We believe, indeed, in expanding rights for people in B.C. We believe, for example, that women have rights over their own bodies. We’ve expanded….
Interjections.
The Speaker: Thank you, Members.
Let’s continue.
Hon. A. Dix: And we believe that children have the right to go to school without being harassed.
The Speaker: House Leader of the Fourth Party, supplemental.
ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AND
GOVERNMENT
PRIORITIES
B. Banman: GDP growth in British Columbia before the NDP took power was around 2.5 percent. Over the last painful seven years, B.C.’s GDP growth has averaged around 1.5 percent. Now, with this NDP’s reckless policies, B.C.’s GDP growth is estimated to be as low as 0.4 percent by 2030. For regular people, this means smaller paycheques and bigger bills.
B.C. is facing a crisis in everything that matters. Most importantly, we have an economy that’s going off a cliff and a Premier who is asleep at the wheel. This is a recipe for economic ruin, which will destroy the future of families in British Columbia. Young people are struggling to move out on their own because housing is either not available or unaffordable. Food inflation is going through the roof.
The Speaker: Question, Member.
B. Banman: Private sector job growth is virtually non-existent. Wages are not going up.
The Speaker: Let’s have a question, Member.
B. Banman: More and more people are making the heartbreaking decision to leave B.C., as it is the only option for them to be able to build a future.
The Speaker: Member, let’s have a question, please.
B. Banman: My question. When will this Premier change course and bring in policies to promote economic growth and start fighting for people who are trying to build a life here in B.C. instead of standing with radical activist extremists who want to tear down B.C., destroy everything we’ve built…
The Speaker: Thank you, Member.
B. Banman: …and think it’s wrong to call ourselves British Columbians?
The Speaker: We heard the question. Thank you.
Hon. B. Bailey: What I would say to the member opposite is never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Boy.
Our GDP has increased since 2017 by 16.9 percent. B.C. continues to be an economic driver in Canada.
The member opposite made many false statements, including a claim that we have a low average income. In fact, we lead the country with the highest average income of $34.68. We’ve also done incredible work to make sure that the minimum wage has been raised for the average British Columbian.
We continue to grow our economy, driving diversification, to ensure that we have a strong economy to go forward. We’re seeing incredible investments coming into our economy from E-One Moli of $1 billion, incredible investments coming into our life sciences sector and many, many more.
Our economy continues to do well. We’re leading the country.
GOVERNMENT ACTION ON ANTISEMITISM
AND RESPONSE TO
ISSUES
S. Robinson: Antisemitism is on the rise in Canada. In 2023, there were over 5,000 documented acts of violence, harassment and vandalism aimed at Jews, more than twice the documented incidents in 2022.
I have a letter here from Premier John Horgan written to Nico Slobinsky, senior director with the Centre for Israel and Jewish Affairs. The letter is dated June 14, 2022. In the letter, Premier Horgan notes that the province of British Columbia fully supports the federal government’s adoption of the IHRA definition of antisemitism and rejects all forms of discrimination, as outlined in Canada’s anti-racism strategy.
That was Premier Horgan’s commitment: to use the IHRA definition of antisemitism when addressing this hatred.
Does our current Premier continue to support this commitment to use the IHRA definition of antisemitism?
Hon. N. Sharma: I want to thank the member for the question.
Clearly, we all stand in solidarity in this House against the disturbing rise of antisemitism in this province. I know the member has been very vocal in what the community is facing. Hate in all its forms is unacceptable in this province. We had a good discussion about our approach to responding to hate through the Anti-Racism Act that’s before this bill.
I understand that for many Jewish people in this province…. The IHRA definition of antisemitism is an important tool to help government understand what antisemitism is showing up in the province. We’ve taken the approach, through our bills and legislation, to not adopt specific definitions in legislation.
Those things change over time. The way communities are experiencing hate and the way communities tell us what they’re experiencing changes over time. What we need to do is continually meet with communities, understand what’s happening to them in time and then respond.
The Speaker: Member, supplemental.
S. Robinson: I’m going to hear that as a no, they’re not adopting the IHRA definition. This wasn’t a question about legislation. It was a question that was…. The former Premier said that we would use that definition as a working definition, but clearly, that seems to no longer be the case.
On Yom HaShoah, the Premier committed to stand up to antisemitism. We have seen what happens when leaders are silent.
On the very same day, on Yom HaShoah, we heard the member for Richmond-Queensborough suggest that the antisemitism we are seeing on campus is somehow justified because of what he experienced in India as a Sikh individual. Therefore, the hate we see on campus is not targeted at Jews. It is just criticizing a state. His subsequent apology is for his lack of clarity, not an apology for tokenism or for the deep hurt that he has caused.
The lived experience of UBC Jewish students, faculty and staff is that they are not welcome on campus because they believe in the right to self-determination. They are being targeted because they are Jews.
This is not the first time this member has had to make an apology for his antisemitism, which consistently turn out to be non-apologies. He’s also not the only New Democrat who has made antisemitic comments. Clearly, the government caucus is not interested or does not understand what antisemitism is and how it looks.
I’m going to ask if this government is interested in doing any antisemitism training to make sure that they don’t step into it yet again.
Hon. R. Kahlon: All members of this House had an all-party committee. Part of the recommendations that came from the all-party committee was that there be anti-racism and anti-hate training to address challenges in society but also to enrich our knowledge and understanding of how different communities face racism. We, on our side, have committed…. We will ensure, when the Legislature comes back, that everyone has that training.
We had a great discussion yesterday, the member and I, on the important steps that we have to do with communities as we move forward to address hate in our communities. Now, the member made a comment yesterday, in fact…. There are some Jewish communities we should be listening to, and the other ones are fringe. The member said “fringe,” specifically.
We don’t take that approach. We believe that all Jewish members of our community have their own lived experience. We want to hear from all of them.
Part of the work that we’ll be doing, with the anti-racism strategy, is taking the next steps, hopefully with the unanimous support of this House, and engaging with communities to ensure that their understanding of what racism is and how they feel it are reflected in the work we do as we go forward.
CHILD CARE PLAN
AND ACCESS TO
SERVICES
K. Kirkpatrick: Eighteen months ago the Premier promised “results that people can feel, touch and experience in their lives.” For mothers like Alisha Ludlow, these promises mean nothing, and she is losing hope.
Alisha can’t find child care, limiting her to part-time work and putting her on the brink of homelessness. She struggles to pay the bills because she can only work four hours a day due to the lack of child care. This is seven years after this NDP government promised universal $10-a-day child care.
After seven years and despite running the largest inflationary deficit in B.C.’s history, why has the Premier utterly failed to deliver on his promise to Alisha and thousands of other parents?
Hon. M. Dean: We know that child care is a really important core service to so many families in British Columbia. It is one of the largest expenses that families face.
Seven years ago it was a real patchwork. It was left to market forces, and it was very difficult for families to find child care and to be able to afford child care.
We have been working on our ChildCareBC plan. We now have 15,000 $10-a-day spaces in British Columbia. That’s not all.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh.
Hon. M. Dean: With our affordable child care benefit, over 35,000 children and their families are supported monthly. Low and middle-income families save up to $1,250 per month per child.
Over 140,000 families are being supported by at least one of our programs, and we are increasing the number of spaces in the province by thousands.
The Speaker: Thank you.
Hon. M. Dean: We’re making a real difference, and I hear from families that this is life-changing. We cannot afford to go back to the situation where child care was not accessible and not affordable for British Columbians.
PROTECTION OF INFORMATION AND
GOVERNMENT CYBERSECURITY
POLICIES
T. Stone: This Premier continues to display why this NDP government won the award for being the most secretive government in all of Canada. The Premier concealed a massive cyberattack on the provincial government for eight days.
I don’t know why members opposite are smiling, but eight days this cyberattack was concealed, only for the Premier to issue a quiet statement while everyone was busy watching last night’s Canucks game.
British Columbians are rightly worried about their sensitive information, wondering if their information has been compromised by a foreign-state-sponsored cyberattack.
The question to the Premier is this. Will the Premier say today who was responsible for this attack, how much sensitive personal information was compromised and why the Premier would have waited eight days to issue a quiet statement during a Canucks game to disclose this very serious breach to British Columbians?
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member.
What I’ll tell the member is this. Nothing was hidden at all.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh.
Hon. M. Farnworth: You know, hon. Speaker, now I understand the triple-delete scandal with that kind of nonsense.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members.
Interjection.
The Speaker: Member, you asked a question. A question was asked. Are you interested in listening to the answer or not?
Hon. M. Farnworth: Thank you, hon. Speaker.
Here’s not indignation. Here’s fact. The fact is this.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Shhh. Why people are interrupting, I don’t understand. Please.
Interjection.
The Speaker: He’s got the floor, Member. Don’t argue with me.
Hon. M. Farnworth: He asked what I believe, or what the public believes, to be a serious question about their information. I’m trying to tell the hon. member that when an incident like this happens, the first thing that happens is the protection of the system, the protection of the information. That’s done by technical experts, who work on the advice of the Canadian cybersecurity system.
The reason they do that is because if you go out and give information before that’s done, you actually end up compromising people’s information, potentially.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members.
Hon. M. Farnworth: The priority is to ensure that the system is protected and that information is protected.
Interjections.
The Speaker: Members.
Hon. M. Farnworth: That is why we are able to say that there is no evidence that there was any compromising of sensitive information.
We take our advice from the technical security experts in this facility. We take our advice from the Canadian cybersecurity service, who deal with these kinds of things on an ongoing basis, along with the agencies who do the investigations.
That’s who we will take the advice on in terms of protecting public information every single time. We will never take advice from an opposition that…. All they ever want to do is play politics.
[End of question period.]
R. Parmar: I rise to present a petition.
The Speaker: Proceed.
Petitions
R. Parmar: I am pleased to present a petition on behalf of John Bruzas and a number of people from my community, calling on the government to amend the Trespass Act to include a statement on rainforest trees.
Reports from Committees
SPECIAL COMMITTEE TO REVIEW
PASSENGER DIRECTED
VEHICLES
M. Elmore: I am pleased to present the report of the Special Committee to Review Passenger Directed Vehicles.
I move that the report be taken as read and received.
Motion approved.
M. Elmore: I ask leave of the House to move a motion to adopt the report.
Leave granted.
The Speaker: Proceed.
M. Elmore: I move that the report be adopted and, in doing so, would like to make some brief comments.
Our committee makes 34 recommendations to improve service provision and ensure an effective regulatory environment for passenger-directed vehicles. Our recommendations were informed by a very robust series of informational briefings from a number of public bodies and, as well, a very well-attended public consultation. During our public consultation, the committee heard from taxi and ride-hailing drivers and companies as well as individuals, communities and groups involved in this sector.
Committee members developed our recommendations based on a number of key principles that we agreed on. These include equity, affordability, safety, accessibility, integration and efficiency, a rural lens and data-driven and transparent decision-making. We agreed and reached consensus to highlight improvements to accessible services of priority.
We know, all members in the House know, that serving people with disabilities is a matter of respecting human rights. Throughout our consultations, we heard just a lot of stories from British Columbians with disabilities about the significant challenges they experience in trying to access passenger-directed vehicles.
Our committee, and I know our House, shares the perspective that British Columbians of all abilities should be treated with dignity and respect and have equitable and timely access to service. On behalf of all committee members, I would like to sincerely thank the individuals with disabilities who took the time to share their very personal experiences with us.
The committee also heard about the unique challenges faced by B.C.’s small, rural and remote communities when it comes to transportation. Going forward, we hope to see a holistic approach adopted to improve transportation connectivity.
Throughout the course of our work, we also heard about the need for more data in all aspects of the transportation sector. The committee supports evidence-based decision-making using quality data that’s easily accessible. Ongoing data collection and analysis will be key to inform future regulatory and policy development.
I’d like to acknowledge staff in the Parliamentary Committees Office who supported our review, including Karan Riarh, Lisa Hill, Danielle Migeon, Jonathon Hamilton, Sean Morgado and Mary Newell.
Thank you, as well, to Amanda Heffelfinger, Dwight Schmidt and Danielle Suter from Hansard Services for their assistance with our work.
Finally, I’d like to express my appreciation to all committee members. We’re at the end of our deliberations, and I appreciate your efforts.
I want to recognize the member for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan, the member for Burnaby North and the member for Richmond-Steveston for their dedication.
Particularly, I also recognize the support of our very capable Deputy Chair, the member for Prince George–Valemount.
S. Bond: I very much appreciate the remarks of our Chair, the member for Vancouver-Kensington. I appreciated the work that she did, making sure that our committee got its work done. We went through some challenging discussions, but very much appreciated that.
I certainly want to echo the comments of the Chair of our committee. Committees work because British Columbians speak up and take the time and effort to actually contribute to the work that’s being done by committees. One of the things that I think moved all of us, as committee members, were the stories that we heard from persons with disabilities. In fact, we heard stories where British Columbians with disabilities face discrimination and, quite frankly, poor transportation services.
We know how absolutely essential it is for there to be accessible transportation in British Columbia. Persons with disabilities want to engage fully in their communities. Whether they’re going to work or school, accessing services, transportation is critical to that participation.
Particularly, people with visual disabilities — very difficult to hear their stories. Imagine what it would be like to be dropped off not knowing where you were. Imagine being denied a ride because you have a service animal. Those things actually happen in British Columbia on a regular basis.
Our committee was very moved by the stories that we heard. In fact, it had a significant impact on the recommendations that we present today.
As someone who lives and represents rural and smaller communities, there are very unique transportation issues. MLAs who serve those parts of the province hear those concerns all the time. Together we need to focus on addressing the gaps that exist in transportation networks in these communities and across the province.
Like my colleague and the Chair of our committee, we want to acknowledge the contributions of the committee members and also recognize her work as our Chair.
Most importantly, we want to thank the Parliamentary Committees Office and Hansard. We spent a lot of very late evenings working together, spending time together.
Hansard — they were often, I’m sure, wondering about some of the discussions we had, but we’re very grateful.
And I, too, want to express our thanks to Karan Riarh, Lisa, Jonathon, Danielle and Sean in particular.
I really appreciate the opportunity to add to the comments made by our Chair.
The Speaker: Members, the question is adoption of the report.
Motion approved.
T. Halford: I seek leave to make an introduction.
Leave granted.
The Speaker: Please proceed.
Introductions by Members
T. Halford: We have two classes from my riding. From Star of the Sea School, we have grade 5 classes led by Mr. Dennis Pasta. They were in here for question period, and they are now outside. And now we have the grade 5 class from Ms. Wynne’s class.
I hope the House makes them welcome. I’m going to go talk to them in a couple of minutes.
Thanks for coming, guys.
I know they’re tired from the Canucks game last night, so well rested today. I appreciate them being here today.
Hon. R. Kahlon: Can I seek leave to make a quick introduction?
The Speaker: Absolutely.
Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you.
Because my friend just made the introduction, I also see Coun. Jennifer Johal, a city councillor of Delta, here with the group. I guess one of Jennifer’s children goes to the school. I want to welcome Coun. Jennifer Johal to this House.
Orders of the Day
Hon. R. Kahlon: In the main chamber, I call Motion 31 on the order paper.
In the Douglas Fir Committee Room, I call Committee of the Whole for Bill 23, Anti-Racism Act.
In Birch Committee Room, I call Committee of Supply for the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General.
Government Motions on Notice
MOTION 31 — TIME ALLOTMENT FOR
FAREWELL ADDRESSES BY
RETIRING MLAs
Hon. R. Kahlon: I move Motion 31 standing in my name on the order paper.
[That, notwithstanding any provision of the Standing Orders or usual practices of the House, the first 90 minutes of Orders of the Day at the afternoon sitting on Thursday, May 9, 2024, be allotted for Members not seeking re-election in the Forty-third provincial general election to deliver a farewell address to the House, with the speaking time limited to ten minutes per Member.]
The Speaker: Members, the question is adoption of Motion 31 on the order paper.
Motion approved.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I call second reading of Bill Pr401, Vancouver Foundation Act.
Second Reading of Bills
BILL Pr401 — VANCOUVER FOUNDATION ACT
M. Dykeman: I move that Bill Pr401, intituled Vancouver Foundation Act, be now read a second time.
The Vancouver Foundation Act has been amended a number of times since it was first established in 1950, and the bill under consideration today would replace the existing act.
The new act continues the corporation as a registered charity, grants its legal capacity and provides for changes relating to its administration, including the governance structure of the board of directors.
As reported to this House on May 8, the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills considered the bill and heard submissions from the applicant.
Following its deliberations, the committee reported that the preamble to the bill proved to its satisfaction and recommended that the bill proceed as presented.
The Speaker: The question is second reading of the bill.
Motion approved.
M. Dykeman: By leave, I move that the bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith.
Leave granted.
Bill Pr401, Vancouver Foundation Act, read a second time and referred to proceed to a Committee of the Whole House for consideration forthwith.
Committee of the Whole House
BILL Pr401 — VANCOUVER FOUNDATION ACT
The House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on Bill Pr401; J. Tegart in the chair.
The committee met at 11:15 a.m.
The Chair: We’ll call the committee to order. We’re dealing with Bill Pr401, Vancouver Foundation Act.
Clauses 1 to 27 inclusive approved.
Preamble approved.
Title approved.
M. Dykeman: I move the committee rise and report the bill complete without amendment.
Motion approved.
The committee rose at 11:17 a.m.
The House resumed; the Speaker in the chair.
Report and
Third Reading of Bills
BILL Pr401 — VANCOUVER FOUNDATION ACT
Bill Pr401, Vancouver Foundation Act, reported complete without amendment, read a third time and passed.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Motion 29 on the order paper.
Government Motions on Notice
MOTION 29 — AMENDMENT TO STANDING
ORDERS FOR PRIVATE
MEMBERS’ TIME
Hon. R. Kahlon: I move Motion 29 standing in my name on the order paper.
[That, effective September 9, 2024, the Standing Orders of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia be amended:
1. By deleting the text shown as struck out and adding the underlined text under the heading “Monday 10 a.m. to 12 noon (Private Members’ Time)” in Standing Order 25 to give Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members and Private Members’ motions equal precedence in the order of business on Monday mornings:
Monday
10 a.m. to 12 noon
(Private Members’
Time)
Private Members’ Statements (10 a.m.)
Public Bills in the
Hands of Private Members and Private Members’ Motions
Public Bills in the Hands of Private
Members
Private Bills
Public Bills and Orders and
Government Motions on Notice
No division, on Orders of the Day, will be taken in the House or in Committee of the Whole during Private Members’ Time, but where a division is requested, it will be deferred until thirty minutes prior to the ordinary time fixed for adjournment of the House on the Monday, unless otherwise ordered.
2. By replacing Standing Order 25A with the following:
Private Members’ Statements.
25A. (1) The time allocated for Private Members’ statements shall not exceed 30 minutes, and the time for each statement shall be limited to 5 minutes.
(2) Party Whips shall confer to settle the names of the Private Members who will be recognized for “Private Members’ Statements” for the following Monday and shall advise the Speaker by noon on the Thursday prior as to who has been selected, together with the topic of the statement.
(3) Private Members’ statements shall not be subject to amendment, adjournment or vote.
(4) Statements under this Standing Order:
(a) shall be confined to one matter;
(b) shall not revive discussion on a matter which has been discussed in the same Session;
(c) shall not anticipate a matter which has been previously appointed for consideration by the House, in respect to which a notice of motion has been previously given and not withdrawn;
(d) shall not raise a question of privilege.
3. By adding the underlined text to Standing Order 27:
Precedence.
(1) All items standing on the Orders of the Day, other than Government orders and Second Reading of Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members and Private Members’ motions, shall be taken up according to the precedence assigned to each on the Order Paper.
Government orders.
(2) Whenever Government business has precedence, Government orders may be called in such sequence as the Government thinks fit, and the Government may place Government orders at the head of the list on every sitting except Monday morning.
Urgent Government business.
(3) Notwithstanding Standing Orders 25, 25A and 27 (2), urgent Government business may, with the consent of the Speaker, be considered on Monday morning, and given priority over any other business.
Private Members’ business.
(4) During Private Members’ Time, Private Members’ business shall be taken up according to the precedence assigned on the Order Paper. Second Reading of Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members and Private Members’ motions shall be taken up according to the precedence established by a draw of Private Members.
4. By adding a new Standing Order 27A as follows:
Placement for Private Members’ Business
Draw for assigned placements for Private Members’ business.
27A. (1) At the earliest opportunity in a new Parliament, the Clerk of the House shall conduct a draw to establish the assigned placement of Private Members to propose business for the duration of that Parliament.
Exchanging or withdrawing place.
(2) A Member may exchange their placement with another Member or withdraw their place by providing the Clerk of the House with written notice of their intention to this effect.
List to be appended to the Order Paper.
(3) A list of assigned placements of Members to present Private Members’ business shall be appended to the Order Paper.
New Private Members.
(4) A new Private Member shall be assigned to the bottom of the list for the order of placement for Private Members’ business. If more than one Private Member is to be added at the same time, the Clerk of the House shall conduct a draw.
Public Bill or motion ruled out of order.
(5) A Private Member who has a Public Bill or motion standing in their name ruled out of order by the Speaker shall be added to the bottom of the placement list for Private Members’ business.
5. By adding a new Standing Order 27B as follows:
Reinstatement of Private Members’ business.
27B. At the beginning of the second or subsequent Session of a Parliament, all items of Private Members’ business that were listed on the Order Paper during the previous Session shall be reinstated on the Order Paper to their last stage of consideration at the time of prorogation, maintaining their order of precedence.
6. In Standing Order 45A,
a. by striking the phrase “Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members” in the heading of Schedule 3,
b. by renumbering Schedule 4 as Schedule 8 and adding the following text as new Schedule 4:
SCHEDULE 4
IN THE HOUSE
PRIVATE MEMBERS’ TIME
Private Members’ Motions
(i) Mover — 5 minutes
(ii) Any other Member — 5 minutes
(iii) Mover in reply to close debate — 5 minutes
Time limit for Private Members’ motions debate.
(1) Debate on a Private Member’s motion shall not exceed 75 minutes.
Question to be put.
(2) At 75 minutes, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and forthwith put any question necessary to dispose of the main question.
c. by renumbering Schedule 5 as Schedule 9 and adding the following text as new Schedule 5:
SCHEDULE 5
IN THE HOUSE
PRIVATE MEMBERS’ TIME
Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members
(Second Reading and Amendments)
(i) Mover — 10 minutes
(ii) Any other Member — 10 minutes
(iii) Mover in reply to close debate — 5 minutes
Time limit for Second Reading debate.
(1) Second Reading debate on a Public Bill in the Hands of a Private Member shall not exceed 75 minutes. A Second Reading debate may be adjourned and hold precedence for continuation of Second Reading debate at the next Private Members’ Time.
Question to be put.
(2) At 75 minutes, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and forthwith put any question necessary to dispose of the main question.
d. by renumbering Schedule 6 as Schedule 10 and adding the following text as Schedule 6:
SCHEDULE 6
IN THE HOUSE
PRIVATE MEMBERS’ TIME
Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members
(Report)
(i) Each Member — 3 minutes
Time limit for Report Stage debate.
(1) Report Stage debate on a Public Bill in the Hands of a Private Member shall not exceed 15 minutes.
Question to be put.
(2) At 15 minutes, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and forthwith put any question necessary to dispose of the main question.
e. by adding the following text as new Schedule 7:
SCHEDULE 7
IN THE HOUSE
PRIVATE MEMBERS’ TIME
Public Bills in the Hands of Private Members
(Third Reading and Amendments)
(i) Mover — 5 minutes
(ii) Any other Member — 5 minutes
(iii) Mover in reply to close debate — 2 minutes
Time limit for Third Reading debate.
(1) Third Reading debate on a Public Bill in the Hands of a Private Member shall not exceed 20 minutes.
Question to be put.
(2) At 20 minutes, the Speaker shall interrupt the proceedings and forthwith put any question necessary to dispose of the main question.
7. In Standing Order 68 (1),
a. by adding to the list of Select Standing Committees a new Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills,
b. by renaming the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills to the Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct and Standing Orders, and
c. reordering the list of Select Standing Committees in alphabetical order.
8. By adding a new Standing Order 84A as follows:
Private Members’ Bills to be committed to Select Standing Committee.
84A. (1) When a Public Bill in the Hands of a Private Member has received Second Reading, it shall stand committed to the Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills.
(2) The Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills shall, within 30 sitting days of the Bill’s committal to the Committee, report the Bill back to the House with or without amendment.
(3) The Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills shall be appointed for the life of a Parliament and may continue consideration of any committed Bill, without interruption following prorogation.
9. In Standing Order 71, by striking the words “Select Standing Committee on Standing Orders and Private Bills” and replacing them with “Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills”.
10. In Standing Order 105, by striking the words “Select Standing Committee on Standing Orders, Private Bills and Members’ Services” and replacing them with “Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills”.
11. In Appendix B — Private Bills, by striking the words “Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills” and replacing them with “Select Standing Committee on Private Bills and Private Members’ Bills”.]
I want to make a few comments, if I can, for the young ones that are leaving and folks that are watching. Sometimes you see in this place, maybe, a debate, and it looks adversarial, but there’s a lot of time in here where we actually get along and work well together. This is an example of this.
I want to thank the committee members that worked together to come forward and bring forward recommendations about how we strengthen our democracy, how we create more opportunities for people who are elected from different parts of this province to be able to bring important issues, important bills forward for debate in this place. It is, I think, one of the most significant changes to how this place operates that we’ve seen in a long time, and it’s possible because of the collaboration that we had from all members of this chamber.
I want to thank the Premier in particular for hearing from our caucus and hearing from them clearly that we need to reform how Monday mornings happen. I know my colleague the House Leader across the way had similar conversations with his caucus, and I know the House Leader of the Third Party had similar views. This again is an example of how we can come together to ensure that future parliaments, future members of this place, can represent their communities in a better way. I want to thank them for all their work.
M. Babchuk: I’m happy to stand up today…. No, actually, I’m really excited to stand up today to talk about this historic moment in our Legislature and recognizing the magnitude that these changes are going to bring. We don’t often see changes in this chamber. I am delighted that we’re having a discussion on the floor today.
On February 27, 2023, this Legislative Assembly agreed that the Special Committee to Review Private Members’ Business be appointed and empowered to examine the current use of time for private members’ business by this Legislature, to also look at other parliamentary jurisdictions in Canada and to make recommendations on possible improvements of private members’ business, specifically around private members’ motions and private members’ bills.
The committee was given the powers of a select standing committee. The committee was to report out by October 5, 2023. During that period of adjournment, the committee met in person and virtually to deliberate, prepare and compose a report with 13 recommendations.
Mr. Speaker, as you know, the current use of private members’ time consists of two hours Monday morning, and the special committee’s mandate was to stay inside that time frame. Monday mornings are currently broken into two sessions: 10 a.m. to 11 a.m. for private members’ statements, and 11 a.m. to 12 p.m. for private members’ motions. The committee found, through discussions and consultations with their caucuses, that this practice no longer fit the needs of private members, as it wasn’t allowing for participation in the legislative process. It was also not meeting the needs of members to represent their constituents, enhance transparency and elevate electoral district issues.
Current private members’ statements currently consist of a seven-five-three model, where a member standing up a statement speaks for seven minutes, a member opposed responds for five minutes, and the originating member rebuts for three minutes. This practice is felt to be antiquated and didn’t achieve any democratic transparency or communicative value to members.
The second hour for private members was felt to be a bit better. It did offer some opportunity for debate but still did not allow members to participate in the process of creating legislation. Mr. Speaker, as you know, private members’ bills are infrequently considered in this chamber, and only six have received royal assent since 2001.
The special committee, in its October 2023 report, proposed the three recommendations to reshape private members’ time, prioritizing increased equity and participation. As this is on the floor today, I am confident it will pass, and these changes will commence after the 2024 provincial general election.
Recommended changes to private members’ statements would be limited to 30 minutes, featuring structural changes and eliminating the reply portion of debate. Each statement would be restricted to five minutes and only one topic, applying rules similar to the two-minute statements prior to question period.
Recommendations on private members’ bills and motions start with a lottery system overseen by the Clerk that would determine the order of private members’ business. All private members in the Legislature would be eligible in this lottery. Once selected, a member can either do a motion or a private member’s bill. These motions or bills would have the question put at every stage, rather than adjourning debate without resolution, as happens in our current system.
If private members’ proposed motions debates are limited to 75 minutes, each member has five minutes to speak, with the question put afterwards. If debates do not conclude within 75 minutes, the House proceeds to the next item on the list. For private members’ bills, under the new approach, the Speaker decides admissibility before second reading, and stages are time-limited, ensuring priority and movement on the order paper.
Subsequently a new select standing committee for private members’ bills will exist to deal with legislation at the Committee of the Whole stage so that we are not taking away from government business. Similarly to the motions, at each stage, the question will be put, making decisions rather than adjourning debate without resolutions.
I would like to emphasize that this is a historic moment in our Legislature, as we haven’t seen significant change to the standing orders for private members’ time since the 1980s.
I think we can all agree that there has been substantial change in the way we live our day-to-day lives, in how we communicate and what our constituents’ expectations are in the role and how we represent them. It’s now time for that to be reflected inside this institution. Improving members’ abilities to represent their constituencies and provide greater transparency is good governance and can only add value and confidence in our democratic system.
I’m very happy that this is on the floor today. I was honoured to be asked to chair the Special Committee to Review Private Members’ Business, as this was a new experience for me and one that I’ve taken many lessons from. It has also allowed me to participate in a systemic change that is near and dear to my heart. I feel grateful to be part of the committee that had great discussion and that ended up coming to consensus.
I’d like to thank the Premier, as well, for his leadership, his openness to hearing from caucus on this and his openness to looking at procedural reform.
I’d also like to thank the members of the committee — the member for Maple Ridge–Mission, the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam, the member for Vancouver-Langara, the member for Courtenay-Comox, the member for Saanich North and the Islands, the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan, the member for Surrey-Panorama, the member for Fraser-Nicola and especially the Deputy Chair, the member for Abbotsford West — for their contributions and positive spirit of collaboration. When we work together, things get done.
J. Tegart: I’d like to echo the words of the speaker before me. It certainly was an interesting committee to be a part of and to have conversation about something as basic as democracy. How do we make the work in this place more relevant to the members and also to the public?
It was an honour to serve on a committee that undertook to improve and expand opportunities for private members. For those of you in the public, private members are members that are not part of the cabinet. Often, private members feel that their input is limited. It was up to this committee to take a look at those concerns and to put forward recommendations to this House.
We looked at how to make this place work better for all members and also for the public. There is a sense, when a bill comes on the floor from a private member, and it’s passed in first reading or second reading, and people are in the public, watching…. Their understanding is that it has been passed. Often, private members’ bills die on the order papers. People don’t understand that.
It’s up to us to make sure that people understand the processes and also that they work for private members. These transformative changes will ensure that all members have the opportunity to have their voices heard and provide a more meaningful use of Monday morning private members’ time.
I, too, want to thank the support we got from the Parliamentary Committees Office and also the committee members. People came open, ready to discuss change, ready to debate change. I think that the report reflects the diversity of that group. It doesn’t matter whether you’re in government or opposition or a third or fourth party. I think good work was done by all. Thank you very much. I look forward to supporting the motion, and I look forward to implementing this incredible change that will make such a difference for private members in this place.
A. Olsen: I’m very happy to be standing in support of this motion. I think British Columbians know that the political party I represent has often talked about proportional representation, and it has been tied with democratic reform. When I talk to people about democratic reform, I often say that it’s more than just proportional representation. It’s more than just the electoral event that happens once every four years that populates the seats and the desks in this Legislative Assembly.
It is also the way this House operates, where the power resides, where the control of the agenda exists and the access that members have, when they get elected here, to be able to participate in all the ways that a member should be able to participate. This isn’t to diminish, necessarily, the important role our executive council and the cabinet ministers play. It is to elevate the members who are not chosen to be in the cabinet, in that executive council.
It is to ensure that government backbenchers, members of the official opposition, members of the other parties, independent members, have a way to be able to advance public policy measures that are important to their constituents. When they propose them, as the member who spoke previously said, the public is led to believe that when we put a private member’s bill on the order paper, it’s going to follow the natural succession of a bill. That’s not how this system has operated in British Columbia.
This has been a project, a conversation, perhaps, that started with my colleague, who is the former House Leader of the Third Party, the member for Cowichan Valley, with her counterpart at the time, the member for Port Coquitlam. As I’ve had the fortune to be the Third Party House Leader, this work continued, these conversations continued. I think there wasn’t a meeting that passed with the Government House Leader where I wasn’t raising some form of a discussion around advancing a reform of private members’ time.
I think what we see here is the work that happens outside of question period. It’s the collaborative work that happens. It’s the space that I often talk about on committees where the most productive, the most rewarding work happens in the Legislative Assembly. I think that that’s probably where these conversations can move to in the future: how do we elevate those spaces that produce those very productive and constructive relationships?
I think it’s important this House be constantly recommitting itself to the democracy and ensuring that we’re thickening democracy, say, perhaps making it more resilient. As we see democracies around the world fragile and in trouble, it’s important that the members that are elected here feel that they can be improving their democracy, feel that they can be reforming democracy.
While we continue to work for proportional representation, so that the actual votes of British Columbians are reflected in our parliaments, the work doesn’t stop there, nor does it need to end there. We can continue to have conversations about how to improve our standing orders, and this is one example of that.
I hope to have the opportunity to continue and to have a private member’s bill or a motion, should I get the opportunity to do it, post the election next fall. Should I draw an early number to have it done sooner than later, I look forward to the opportunity to provide something for the debate of this House in that form.
With that, I raise my hands to the government. I raise my hands to the Chair, the Deputy Chair and to all my colleagues on both sides of this House who showed British Columbians that we can work in a collaborative way. This work is the production of that.
HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM.
The Speaker: Members, the question is adoption of Motion 29 on the order paper.
Motion approved.
Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Committee of the Whole for Bill 25, Haida Nation Recognition Amendment Act.
Committee of the Whole House
BILL 25 — HAIDA NATION RECOGNITION
AMENDMENT ACT, 2024
(continued)
The House in Committee of the Whole (Section B) on Bill 25; J. Tegart in the chair.
The committee met at 11:36 a.m.
The Chair: I’ll call the committee to order. We’re dealing with Bill 25, Haida Nation Recognition Amendment Act, 2024.
On clause 2 (continued).
M. Lee: Good to be back, engaged with the Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation on this very important Bill 25. We know this is an amendment to the Haida Nation Recognition Act itself, that at the end of the last session in May 2023, we had, by my recollection, about 45 minutes on time allocation to deal with that important bill.
When I look back at the Hansard transcript in the time I had, the minister had said, in reference to the act that we’re now amending, this was a first step to have the recognition of the Council of the Haida Nation, that it’s going to be redefined through other governance arrangements that are contemplated in the framework agreement, and that this is an incremental step along the way.
Again, there continues to be reference to incremental steps. I have been of the view, of course, that the nature of Bill 25 is more than just an incremental step. It’s a fundamental change, as we’ve talked about, recognizing Aboriginal title to coexist with fee simple interests and private property rights and the uncertainty around that structure.
The minister went on to say: “I think it is important because it is providing” — that is, this act that we’re amending under Bill 25 — “a restructuring of our relationship with the Haida Nation. I think that’s, at bottom, what we are trying to do through this incremental step. There will be more to come.”
This is the area I wanted to point out: at the time a year ago, we were standing in this chamber in the dying days of that legislative session, and here we are standing here in this chamber in the dying days of this legislative session, with only 4½ days to go. You’ve heard our points, Madam Chair, in the Leader of the Official Opposition and myself calling for a pause before the agreement was entered into and this bill to be made an exposure bill.
Having said that, in the government coming forward with the Haida Nation Recognition Act itself a year ago, the minister said this: “Discussion on title is, of course, going to be something that we’ll have to continue, as we’re trying to resolve a relationship which started with litigation. But we cannot continue, the Haida have told us, with an Indian Act band or two bands. We cannot continue with a Society Act created under B.C. law.… The Haida have insisted, properly, that we redefine and reconstruct that relationship. This bill is a step along the journey to do just that.”
The definition and the reference that is covered in the Haida Nation Recognition Act is that the government of British Columbia recognizes that the Haida Nation has inherent rights of governance and self-determination.
We had that discussion in the bill debate last time around this bill, and we know that in clause 2 of Bill 25, the new part that’s being added relating to Aboriginal title is being added to the governance section, which is covered in the recognition act itself.
Under section 4, perhaps I could ask for clarity in terms of where this amendment is dropping, so to speak, into the Haida Nation Recognition Act. Could the minister responsible here clarify?
I’m reading the act against Bill 25. “The following Part is added after section 4,” which means, just to clarify, that part 1 is entitled “Governance” over sections 1 to 4 of the act, and part 2 will be a new part of the act entitled “Lands,” and the “Aboriginal Title” matter is to follow.
Can I just get the minister to confirm that that’s the structure of this amendment?
Hon. M. Rankin: Thank you to the member for Vancouver-Langara for the question.
I want to, perhaps, just say how pleased we are to be diving back into our discussions on clause-by-clause review of this bill. For the record, I will note we moved into committee stage on May 1. In that time, we have spent eight hours and 22 minutes in committee discussions. To date, we have gone through clause 1 discussions of the bill. For the record, I will note that clause 1 merely adds a heading to the Haida Nation Recognition Act — namely, part 1, “Governance.”
During the clause 1 discussions, the opposition asked quite a range and a number of questions, including some pertaining to provisions under other sections of the bill, specifically clauses 2 and 3, which I hope we can get to.
After eight hours and 22 minutes, we moved to clause 2, where we are now. We haven’t yet directly discussed the substance of the bill in the over eight hours we’ve spent together. So I appreciate the member diving into the specifics of the bill and asking a question on clause 2.
I think the question is: does part 1 deal with governance, and is part 2 intended to deal with lands? I can confirm that is the case.
M. Lee: I know that the minister, in reading that prepared statement, understands the context in which we’ve been discussing this bill, as I’ve been minded to speak to. I know that members of the Council of the Haida Nation and First Nations leadership in this province are observing and monitoring, some physically in the chamber, in the gallery, some online.
The minister may want to refer to the fact that there have been eight hours and 35 minutes of review on this bill to date. The minister well knows that it has been the view of the Leader of the Official Opposition and the B.C. United official opposition caucus that this is a fundamental change. This is more than just an incremental step.
We called for a pause back on March 22, before the agreement was entered into. When the bill came forward and landed in the House, in this chamber, on April 22…. On April 24, we called for this bill to be made an exposure bill because it needs the time and the consideration.
I appreciate the fact that the minister has been patient to enable the discussion that we’ve been having. But the minister well knows, of course, that the underlying point about the bill is the agreement itself, the Rising Tide agreement, the agreement that was entered into on April 14.
We spent, I don’t know, 30 or 45 minutes talking about the fact that the agreement itself is not even in effect. It’s not even binding right now. This government is bringing forward legislation in Bill 25 on the basis of a non-binding agreement. It hasn’t come into effect. The party still needs to determine when it’s going to come into effect in the summer.
This is just one point. Government has indicated that they’re not prepared to consider any amendments to the agreement itself, nation to nation, between the Haida Nation and the province of British Columbia. But they are open to consider reasoned amendments.
Obviously in the role that I play, I need to understand the underpinnings of the bill and, I would say, the underpinnings of the act. We had 45 minutes a year ago on the Haida Nation Recognition Act itself, 45 minutes before this government brought closure — in effect, a time allocation to that bill.
Just like they did with the Judicial Review Procedure Act. No questions asked, and that held First Nations accountable for their decisions under section 7 agreements under DRIPA.
This is the way this government makes change. They say it’s incremental, but it’s not. That’s the reason why we called for a pause. That’s the reason why we called for this bill to be an exposure bill. The minister may want to stand in this House and now say, for what this is a four-clause bill, that we need to have the front-end discussion.
When we’re talking about Aboriginal title, the minister had said, when I asked the questions on the Haida Nation Recognition Act itself, when the Haida Nation has inherent rights of governance and self-determination…. This is an act, by the way, despite the fact that we only had 45 minutes to debate, the official opposition did vote in favour of this bill. I spoke in favour of the act itself, to recognize the 50-year history of the Council of the Haida Nation through its constitution. Even with that, the minister was not able to define what the inherent right of governance and self-determination meant for the Haida Nation.
He said that that would be “left, in terms of the determination of the scope of these rights of governance and self-determination, to negotiations.”
Here we are, a year later. This is the result: an agreement that now speaks to title, but also has a two-year transition period. This is something else that we spent a portion of my eight hours with this minister talking about, which is this two-year transition period, which is: “We’ll figure out the details later.”
I would have thought, as the Premier of this province has been trumpeting, this is a template agreement to recognize title in our province. It’s a new model. Well, let’s understand what this new model is.
In order for this template, this new model of agreement of title, recognition of 100 percent of a title assertion, for this particular nation as it might be used by other nations in this province, will the government need to recognize that nation first through a recognition act of governance, as was done a year ago with the Haida Nation?
Hon. M. Rankin: Thank you to the member for Vancouver-Langara for the question.
Yeah, there are indeed four clauses in the bill, but some of them are more substantive than others. I agree.
The member noted his call for a pause. We had, in those eight hours and 22 minutes, considerable discussion on that suggestion, that recommendation by the member opposite. My understanding of clause-by-clause is that we are to examine the bill. I, of course, said in those earlier conversations, the eight hours and 22 minutes to which I referred, that it was entirely appropriate to discuss the agreement, which we have done.
I also confirmed that, of course, as in any context, the government is open to reasoned amendments on any bill before the House. That is, of course, one of the purposes of clause-by-clause. So I confirmed that.
I want to acknowledge and thank the member for leading his colleagues to be able to support the bill, the Haida Nation Recognition Act, that was before us last fall. I appreciate that very much. I continue to hope, just as in the context of UNDRIP legislation and the historic Declaration Act, that after considerable debate in this House — I wasn’t here, but of course I’ve read the Hansard — the opposition will be similarly in a position to support this historic legislation.
The member used the phrase…. I think he was quoting me in the notion of it. “Incremental steps” was the phrase that is discussed. I can report to the member that in today’s National, the Canadian Bar Association journal, just released this morning, they comment as follows on this legislation: “The Haida reconciliation approach…assumes an ongoing, dynamic relationship between the parties. And it will be subject to ongoing modification and adjustment through the coming decades, or even centuries.” I think that confirms the incremental nature of what I tried to indicate in earlier comments to the member.
I should say that…. The member’s specific question was: are we going to need to do a recognition of every First Nation’s governance as legislation of this kind may come forward in the future? The member is well aware, as shadow minister for Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation, of the diversity of First Nations in our province. The 200-plus First Nations are at different stages and have different forms of governance, so I can’t say that that would be the case.
Indeed, the member will be aware that there are some nations that have strong self-government arrangements already in place. Westbank, shíshálh are two examples that come to mind. So there is not going to be a consistent approach, nor should there be, given the nature of Indigenous governance in our province.
With that, I move that the committee rise, report progress and seek leave to sit again.
Motion approved.
The committee rose at 11:55 a.m.
The House resumed; the Speaker in the chair.
Committee of the Whole (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.
Committee of the Whole (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.
Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.
Hon. B. Ralston moved adjournment of the House.
Motion approved.
The Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.
The House adjourned at 11:56 a.m.
PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM
Committee of the Whole House
(continued)
The House in Committee of the Whole (Section A) on Bill 23; H. Yao in the chair.
The committee met at 11:24 a.m.
The Chair: Good morning, Members. I call Committee of the Whole on Bill 23, Anti-Racism Act, to order. We are currently on clause 20. There is an amendment presented by the member for Richmond North Centre.
On clause 20 (continued).
On the amendment (continued).
T. Wat: It seems there has been a significant misunderstanding or perhaps a reluctance to grasp the real purpose behind my proposed amendment. This isn’t just another piece of bureaucratic amendment. This is an essential protection for our Indigenous and racialized communities.
Unfortunately, a small error regarding the term “public service” in our text caused some confusion with my amendment to clause 14 yesterday, obscuring the true intent of my proposal. Let me make it clear. The concerns of racialized individuals in our community are not theoretical.
They are real and painful. These people often feel like they are not hired for their skills but as mere numbers filling quotas or targets. This wrong will leads to discrimination and undermines their real achievements, their skill set, their talents and their experience.
Yesterday the minister across remarked: “Quite frankly, I don’t think the amendment is even needed, because what it’s referring to is the Public Service Act, which already has processes in place for people to be hired based on their merits. So it doesn’t actually do anything different than what the legislation has.”
This comment misses the point and, at the same time, gives validity to my amendment. It overlooks the daily challenges of misinformation and prejudice that our communities face. It ignores the fear among my constituents that they are viewed only as part of a diversity count.
If Bill 23 truly aims to remedy significant issues such as systemic racism…. The minister must know how much every word in the legislation needs to be thoroughly examined so it’s not causing more harm to racialized communities and Indigenous peoples.
If the legislation, indeed, intends to show that hiring is based on merit, then making this explicit in the wording should not be controversial. It should be a welcome clarification to prevent misunderstanding and misuse. Opposing such clarity leaves room for harmful stereotypes to thrive and for the real concern of our people to be ignored.
Why, then, should we hesitate to strengthen this legislation to clearly reassure our communities? Why allow any space for doubt or the spread of toxic narratives by those intent on spreading hate?
Our responsibility is profound, to carry forward our intention and protect the rights of all our citizens. Failing to properly address this issue risks not only the well-being of our constituents but also the integrity of the public institutions.
I stand here urging my colleagues to rise above routine bureaucracy. Listen to the voices of those we serve. They deserve our respect and decisive action. They deserve laws that are clear and that protect everyone without question.
I also must express my profound disappointment and the deep disrespect I felt during yesterday’s proceeding in this House. It is crucial to address a particular distressing accusation made against me. The House Leader of the government claimed I “perpetuate the stereotype that Indigenous people don’t have the skills and experience to work in government.”
Let me be absolutely clear. I never said such a thing. I do not believe such a thing. I’m deeply troubled and offended that this inference was made, seemingly not in good conscience.
I acknowledge there were technical mistakes in the amendment I proposed. However, rather than receiving the benefit of the doubt or guidance on how to correct these errors, I was abruptly told to move on and denied the opportunity to clarify my intentions. The Chair did not allow me to explain, and the House Leader across took it upon himself to misconstrue my intention and put words in my mouth — words that carry some real implications that I categorically reject.
This misrepresentation was not only hurtful but indicative of what brought the issue within the proceedings. My queries regarding various clauses of the bill remain unanswered. For much of the day, repeatedly the House Leader would defer, stating uncertainty like, “We don’t know yet,” without even consulting ministry aides for clarity.
I am glad the Attorney General is here today. I was going to say that if the members of the House cannot engage respectfully and constructively and not be prepared to provide an answer, then the Attorney General should be brought back. I’m glad that I see the Attorney General here today. I hope that the Attorney General will provide clarity that was sorely missing in yesterday’s discussions.
However, and moreover, despite assurances of respect by the House Leader on multiple occasions, I was not shown the courtesy expected in this House. My struggle to articulate my frustrations was exacerbated by the fact that English is not my first language and was matched with indifference rather than understanding.
If the voices of British Columbians needing answers are to be ignored, then we must ask ourselves: what is the purpose of even gathering here? How are we to serve those who have entrusted us with their representation?
This is a call for a higher standard of conduct and dialogue within these walls. We owe it to our constituents and to the integrity of this legislative body.
R. Merrifield: I want to address some of what happened. I apologize to the Attorney, who wasn’t necessarily here for all of the conversation. I’ll actually use this as an example of what happens when things are not clear, when assumptions are made on intention, when assumptions are made on belief rather than on surety, on clarity, on definition, on things that are very straightforward and asserted.
The amendment that has been proposed by my colleague is one which is attempting, and all of the amendments so far have been attempting to introduce more clarity, have been attempting to add more definition, have been attempting to add the aspects that will provide the protections and have us actually achieve what I think everyone wants in, I guess, the title of the bill, which is anti-racism.
The amendment is more than just a few lines of additional language. The assumption that was made in the previous attempt at the amendment actually proved the amendment’s point, in some ways. The assumption made was that my colleague was in some way insinuating that there was not merit there.
That assumption is made when there isn’t the clear defined assertion that it was based on merit and other aspects. I think we need to, as we are implementing this bill and these measures, look at and be really mindful of the potential unintended consequences and aim to create a system that is fair and effective in promoting not just diversity but in actually promoting equality, in saying these are amazing individuals that should be welcomed and engaged and believed in fairly and equally.
The amendment that we’re proposing today aims to refine this bill further. It emphasizes that hiring should be based on both merit and the imperative to address the racial inequities and disparities. And by including merit as a core criterion, we acknowledge that the importance of skills and experience and qualifications in selecting the best candidates is there. It takes away the very misunderstanding that took place in yesterday’s exchange on the first amendment, the accusation that in some way, there would be a belief that a certain group of racialized individuals would somehow be unfairly put into positions. We’re actually trying to avoid that. The wording ensures that everyone, all of our agencies, are staffed with competent individuals who are equipped to serve the public efficiently and effectively and, in doing so, actually moves the cause of diversity forward in a better way.
By considering racialization, we address the historical and systemic barriers that have prevented incredibly talented individuals from racialized communities from accessing opportunities in the public sector. But combining the two aspects of merit and racialization creates a balanced approach that not only values qualifications and capabilities but also actively works to dismantle racial inequities that we know are within our society. So we’re actually advocating for this dual focus to bolster and make stronger the cause of dismantling these racial inequities.
I understand this. I am a female that has worked incredibly hard in a male-dominated industry to get to where I am, overcoming a lot of belief as to why I’m around a boardroom table as the only female, or why I happen to be appointed to that board that I’m on, or why I’ve been chosen for a particular award. But it’s not just about women. In fact, women are never mentioned anywhere in this bill. This is just about racial diversity.
Imagine a talented young person from an underrepresented racial community who has worked tirelessly to overcome numerous obstacles and achieve academic and professional success. Now imagine that individual, despite their qualifications, still facing stigma by a lack of understanding or a lack of belief that they were chosen on that merit. Why not include language that can backstop this entire process and say, no, no, no, it was merit and diversity that they were chosen on.
We don’t want to perpetuate harmful stereotypes. In fact, just the opposite. We are working to undo those harmful stereotypes that individuals from racialized communities have absolutely had to work against. The amendment seeks to prevent the stigmas by clearly stating that all hires are based on both merit and understanding of the systemic barriers that they’ve overcome.
By implementing this amendment that my colleague has put forward, we send a powerful message that our government is committed to excellence and equity. We’re saying that we value the contributions of all of our members of society and that we’re willing to take concrete steps to ensure that everyone has a fair chance to contribute to our public service.
Furthermore, this amendment will help to eradicate the stigma associated with affirmative action policies. By explicitly stating that hiring is based on merit in addition to addressing racialization, we can dispel the misconception that candidates from racialized communities are hired solely based on their race.
It makes it clear that these individuals are recognized for their exceptional skills and qualifications, alongside the understanding of the additional hurdles that they’ve overcome.
This is not language-changing for semantics. It’s about changing the very culture and fabric of our society and allowing government agencies to go first. It’s about fostering an environment where diversity is seen as a strength and where every employee is encouraged to bring their unique perspectives and experiences to the table. This cultural shift that we’re asking for and that we want to all see is going to enhance the effectiveness of our public service, as diverse teams are proven to be more innovative and better at problem-solving.
We’re trying to make this just a little bit stronger, and we’re trying to avoid situations that happened between two legislators yesterday. Never mind the general public; if two legislators can’t even believe the best about each other’s intentions, how then can we expect the rest of society to do that?
We believe that this amendment is going to help us eradicate stigma, change the culture, not just within our agencies but really lead the way in changing it amongst our culture and our society, and move us closer to a just and equitable society. I ask us to stand together and to support this as a show of support and strength in trying to change the tide of what we see today in society.
K. Kirkpatrick: I’m going to ask the indulgence of the Chair and the minister. Because of what we see as a misunderstanding yesterday — and perhaps, not being given guidance in terms of how to rectify this — I think, in fairness and equity, if we could go back to clause 14. I know and understand, Mr. Chair, that we’re on 20 right now, but for the opportunity for my colleague to reintroduce the proposed amendment to the bill on clause 14.
I know this is maybe a bit unusual, but I would ask the indulgence. I will leave it in your hands.
The Chair: Members, I’ve been advised that in order for us to consider a clause 14 amendment, we need first to agree, among the committee, to stand down the amendment to clause 20.
Hon. N. Sharma: I was not at the committee yesterday. You’ll have to forgive me. I was in another House with another matter.
I would like some clarity on what we are going to be proposing on section 14 and what the difference is. Maybe the member could provide that. This is new to me, but I’m not really sure why we would go backwards at this stage.
The Chair: Attorney General, how about we note the hour right now? Then we’ll come back after lunch.
Hon. N. Sharma: Noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report progress and seek leave to sit again.
Motion approved.
The committee rose at 11:44 a.m.
PROCEEDINGS IN THE
BIRCH ROOM
Committee of Supply
ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
PUBLIC SAFETY AND SOLICITOR
GENERAL
The House in Committee of Supply (Section C); M. Dykeman in the chair.
The committee met at 11:20 a.m.
The Chair: Good morning, Members. I call Committee of Supply, Section C, to order. We’re meeting today to consider the budget estimates of the Ministry of Public Safety and Solicitor General.
On Vote 42: ministry operations, $1,068,431,000.
The Chair: Minister, do you have any opening remarks?
Hon. M. Farnworth: Nope.
The Chair: Okay. I’m now going to recognize the member for Kelowna West.
B. Stewart: Thank you, Chair. It’s good to be here and have a chance to talk a little bit about something that I’m a little passionate about.
It has been a very difficult and trying last few years, with the climate issues that have faced Okanagan grape growers and wineries. They’re continuing to assess damage in the vineyards at this time. It’s probably going to be about another month before we have a real certainty.
There’s a replant program that the Minister of Agriculture has announced — $23 million dedicated to the vineyard replanting, which I know myself and the member for Boundary-Similkameen are working hard on. It’s welcome. We’re looking forward to that getting out.
What I want to ask the minister today is…. A lot of the wineries, as he knows, don’t have a grape supply this year. Of course, many of them are in very difficult situations.
I’m wondering if the ministry could confirm the number of people that were assigned, in the liquor control and licensing branch, to deal with the transition. It appears to be the only option to convert from land-based wineries to commercial winery licences in 2023. So the number of people that are working in that area.
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member.
I can give a direct answer to the specific. I’ll also talk a little bit about the broader issue. He and I have talked about this as well.
There’s obviously the replant program underway. We have been meeting extensively with grape growers, the wineries themselves, on the challenges that they’re facing in terms of not just the freeze that happened this year but what has happened in the last couple of years and what that means in terms of going forward and in terms of wine sales in British Columbia and the challenges that they are facing and how we can mitigate that. This ministry has also been working with the Ministry of Agriculture on that. So there’s a lot of work that’s underway.
In terms of the specific, there are 12 people working on that issue that the member just raised.
B. Stewart: To clarify, 12 people, meaning that’s the current…. Really what I’m getting at is: what additional resources have been assigned to that area in the past 12 months?
Hon. M. Farnworth: For the member, it hasn’t required additional resources. What we have done is realigned the work of the LDB so that those individuals are focusing entirely on the issue that the member has raised. It has not required new people. It has just required an alignment of work — what the priority is and what the issue is that the wineries are facing.
B. Stewart: I want to be clear. Of course, as we get closer to when these wineries, the 461 that are licensed land-based wineries in the province, are coming up to when they would have grapes coming from their own vineyards here in British Columbia…. The timelines they’re now…. I guess they’ve been expecting some sort of direction from government. At this point, it appears that the only real direction is the change.
I’m kind of wondering, if asked, what types of timelines these individual wineries will face in terms of conversion, in terms of having to get access so they can properly import grapes.
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member. I’ll make a couple of points.
There’s no backlog right now. It takes about a week to do a turnaround. Obviously, if we see an increase in that, we will add additional resources.
On top of that, what I can tell you is…. We also have a proposal from the Wine Growers association which is currently under consideration by government.
M. Morris: We’ve had a little bit of wine before we get into the aspects of policing here. I don’t know whether you need a staff change or not.
Hon. M. Farnworth: We’re not driving.
M. Morris: I’ll be going into other policing topics this afternoon.
Last November the Premier announced an increase of $230 million to the provincial RCMP budget to add 277 members. I’m wondering whether the minister can give us an update on where that sits: how many members we have on the ground now and what the rollout is for the rest.
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member, and as the member knows, it is a three-year program. In the first year, we added 62 members, and this year we are working from a target of 132.
M. Morris: I wondered if the minister could tell us what the priorities are from the policing perspective, from his office’s perspective, versus the priorities for the RCMP. I’m sure there are some similarities there.
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question. Our priorities and the RCMP’s priorities are aligned. We’re both working from the same page. I can tell you that the priorities are, I think, the same as what we talked about last year. They are major crime, B.C. Highway Patrol and rural and remote provincial detachments.
M. Morris: Of the 62 that have been placed in year 1, how many of the rural remote detachments…? We have some that are really struggling with the workload and whatnot out there. How many, and where would these be?
Hon. M. Farnworth: In that first year, five have gone to rural and remote detachments.
M. Morris: Which ones?
Hon. M. Farnworth: The five are Anahim Lake, Vanderhoof, north district, Golden and the southeast district.
M. Morris: I appreciate the answer from the minister.
Anahim. I’m familiar with that. It was in my old district. I know a lot of the rural and remote communities that are desperate for additional help also include housing. For the position that went to Anahim, was there an additional house that was built or provided for the member that was occupying that?
Hon. M. Farnworth: I’ll get the answer, the confirmation answer for the member around Anahim.
What I can tell you is one of the things we do is one of the factors, in terms of where officers go. We work with the RCMP because we want to ensure that, in fact, there is housing in a community. As the member quite rightly…. I think we both agree that’s of critical importance. We’ll get that information around Anahim for the member.
M. Morris: I appreciate the answer, and I look forward to the answer.
There are a number of communities that are suffering from the same issue. Housing has always been an issue in attracting resources into these rural and remote communities.
Has the ministry budgeted for additional housing in some of these remote places like Anahim, for an example, or we’ve got TseK’hene, Kwadacha, Takla? There are a number of the isolated posts that do require housing, because there’s none available in the community itself. Has there been any budget for that?
Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member.
We work very closely with the RCMP on this issue of accommodation, and we do it primarily through the accommodation program charge, which has the ability to provide capital to construct or purchase housing for members. Some communities, in fact, do leasing, but, as I said, we work very closely with the RCMP to be able to identify what housing needs are and work with them on trying to ensure that there is appropriate housing in a detachment or in a community such as the one the member is talking about.
M. Morris: Going based on my previous experience, that was always a barrier to staffing a lot of these remote communities. Housing can’t materialize overnight, particularly in the remote communities, because of the cost of getting materials in there and trying to find help to build them.
Has the ministry done any work with the RCMP to look at these remote places to ensure there’s accommodation? We’ve got a couple more years left to go in the program, and some of these places are in dire need of more support.
Hon. M. Farnworth: Yes, we are.
M. Morris: The minister mentioned the north district getting a position as well. The north district encompasses 75 percent of the province. I’m wondering where in the north district this position went to.
Hon. M. Farnworth: It’s the provincial support team that provides relief support.
The Chair: Minister, can you move the motion, please.
Hon. M. Farnworth: I move the committee rise, report amazing progress and ask leave to sit again.
Motion approved.
The committee rose at 11:43 a.m.