Fifth Session, 42nd Parliament (2024)

OFFICIAL REPORT
OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Thursday, April 11, 2024

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 412

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.
The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.


CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Hon. J. Osborne

A. Olsen

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

T. Wat

A. Singh

S. Bond

J. Rice

A. Olsen

R. Glumac

Oral Questions

K. Falcon

Hon. A. Dix

R. Merrifield

A. Olsen

Hon. M. Farnworth

B. Banman

Hon. D. Eby

A. Walker

Hon. A. Dix

K. Kirkpatrick

Hon. A. Dix

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

Tabling Documents

Office of the registrar of lobbyists for B.C., Determination Decision 23-07, Uber Canada Inc., designated filer: Brian Kuntz, November 15, 2023

Office of the registrar of lobbyists, Reconsideration Decision 23-07, designated filer: Brian Kuntz, March 28, 2024

Reports from Committees

R. Glumac

I. Paton

G. Begg

R. Merrifield

Motions Without Notice

G. Begg

Standing Order 35

T. Stone

Hon. M. Farnworth

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of the Whole House

A. Olsen

Hon. M. Farnworth

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of Supply

Hon. S. Malcolmson

D. Davies


THURSDAY, APRIL 11, 2024

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: E. Sturko.

Introductions by Members

Hon. D. Eby: I will be meeting today with Christina Derksen-Unrau, Arlen Unrau and Paul Adams from the Rural Health Network — there we are, up in the gallery, nice to see you — and Jacqueline Podewils from the Lung Transplant Housing Support, to talk about support for people seeking transplants, particularly from rural areas.

[10:05 a.m.]

I look forward to the conversation. Welcome to the House.

S. Bond: I’m delighted today to introduce a number of members of the Canadian Association of Physician Assistants. Today they will be hosting an event in the Hall of Honour, and I certainly encourage all members to attend. They have done a fantastic job of talking about the important role that physician assistants can and should play in our health care system.

I know members will want to help me welcome Kristy Corrente, director of advocacy and communications; Muhammad Masood, manager of communications and marketing; Lisa Stewart, the B.C. director; and Gabrielle DeMone, B.C. alternate director.

Please join me in helping make them most welcome.

Hon. H. Bains: I have two sets of introductions today.

Yesterday I introduced my friends from United Steelworkers, led by their district director, Scott Lunny. All 28 of them are here again today, and I just want to say thank you for making me who I am. That’s the union that made me who I am, starting with the IWA and then now United Steelworkers.

They are working, day in and day out, not only in the forest industry but in every sector of our economy, trying to lift people into better working conditions, wages and benefits. So I just want the House to join with me and give them a very, very warm welcome.

The second set of our friends, from Construction Maintenance and Allied Workers of Canada, are here to watch the question period. A number of our colleagues went and met with them yesterday at lunchtime.

They are led by their president, Chris Wasilenchuk; Michele Banducci, vice-president, Lower Mainland; Ron Harry, director of business development and external relations; and Mark Miller, business agent of Local 2300. They represent over 8,000 members. I want to commend them for advocating for workers’ health and safety and better working conditions, wages and benefits.

Please help me give them a very, very warm welcome.

Hon. N. Sharma: I just wanted to give a warm welcome to Manjit Kaur Bing, who is a care aid from Port Alberni. It’s her first time in question period today and experiencing what it’s like to see this side of politics.

Please, everybody make her feel welcome.

B. Anderson: Today I am absolutely delighted to welcome Cael Read into the House. Cale is a grade 12 student of Elphinstone Secondary in Gibsons, who simultaneously serves as one of the only student representatives in council, in the province, of the town of Gibsons, and the only student school trustee in the province at school district 46.

He recently co-led the successful campaign for free transit for high school students on the Sunshine Coast, and he is here in the Legislature today, and tomorrow at the Association of Vancouver Island and Coastal Communities, to seek the expansion of this program prov­ince­wide.

For my second introduction, joined with Cale is the mayor of the town of Gibsons, Silas White, who among many accomplishments was also formerly in an indie rock band, which I think is quite interesting. I just want to thank the fantastic member for the Sunshine Coast, who gave me the privilege of introducing both the mayor and Cale.

Thank you so much. Welcome. I can’t wait to spend time with you both today.

A. Walker: I have the privilege of two very honoured guests here today who made the long trek all the way from Parksville to attend AVICC this year.

On the right is Coun. Joel Grenz. He has been a fearless advocate for the short-term rentals on Resort Drive and is always available for a late-night phone conversation. I appreciate that.

[10:10 a.m.]

To his left is Coun. Sean Wood. He is also a director at the regional district of Nanaimo. He has been elected as a director for UBCM. He is appointed to a committee at FCM. The reason he’s smiling — he may not be right now, but he was all morning — is because just yesterday the federal government committed to funding the firefighters tax credit, going from $3,000 to $10,000.

As a former volunteer firefighter and someone who has been championing this cause for many years now, this is a great day for him. I know he’s going to do what he can to track down some ministers here later today and make sure the province does their part.

I hope that this House makes both of these honoured guests very welcome.

H. Sandhu: As we all know, yesterday was Siblings Day. I am thrilled that of my two siblings, my only brother is finally able to come join me and watch question period for the first time, along with his family.

My brother, Lakhvinder Singh Boparai, his wife, Jasmeet Kaur Boparai, my nephew Gavindeep Singh Boparai and my younger nephew Avinoor Singh Boparai are all here very thrilled, very happy and looking forward to watching this question period.

As we all know, all members of this House, we have siblings, and we share connections. My brother and I are very close, and we became even closer after we lost our dad at a young age. There is one story I want to share. We both studied away from home, as parents had tried to put us in good schools. I was doing nursing in the other part of the city, and my brother was in high school. He would save money from his pocket money — which, we all know, is usually not much. He had a little bicycle.

One day, one weekend, my parents couldn’t come, and I was very sad. Next thing I knew, the guard at the gate called me downstairs and said I had a visitor. When I looked at the nursing school gate, there is this boy on a little bicycle. There are two bags hanging on each handle, and there are my favourite savoury snacks and sweets.

It was my brother. I said, “Where did you get the money from?” He had driven from one side of the city to the other, with no proper bike lanes. He made it there. He said, “I didn’t want you to be sad, so I saved money from my pocket money, and these are your favourite snacks.” Then he continued doing that.

As I said, many members can relate to how much our siblings mean. My sister-in-law is like a sister to me. As my dad always used to say: “I have a third daughter in the family.” My nephews are doing incredible work. They’re proud Vernon residents now.

Would the House please make them feel very welcome.

Hon. A. Dix: From the Ministry of Health, we’re joined in the gallery today by the health sector information management/information technology division. That sounds like a mouthful, but this group of people works tirelessly to help British Columbians get better access to health care. I’m really proud of the work that they’re doing, particularly in primary care and other areas of health care.

I want to introduce Christy Sumner, Debbie Single­ton, Alana Parker, Christine Pratt, Jeanette So, Ashley Lake, Emma Grattan, Iris Alvarenga, Preety Komal and Amy White.

I wish the House to make them all welcome.

S. Furstenau: I have a very special guest, a grade 10 student, Rhys Walker-Shaw. He’s a fan of David Attenborough, if the House will indulge me a little bit in my introduction.

Rhys Walker-Shaw can be found in his typical habitat in the flex program at Reynolds High School. When not at Reynolds, he migrates to Tofino, where he appreciates the biodiversity of ancient rainforests and where he spends his time contemplating his future as a possible director of films and TV programs. I had the fortune of meeting Rhys last year when he invited me to his class.

Would the House please make this very impressive young man most welcome.

Hon. G. Chow: I have the privilege to introduce Mi­chael McEvoy, who is the Information and Privacy Commissioner and who is visiting the House.

Would the House make a big welcome to Michael.

[10:15 a.m.]

K. Paddon: I am very excited. I have two of my three favourite humans today joining us: my husband, Drew Paddon, and my son, Nic.

Nic is just going to be moving home today from UVic after his first year. He still has some exams to do online, but he’s going to be coming home and then studying in Spain in the fall. I’m very excited that he’s here to be able to see this. I’m very grateful to my husband for making the trek down and seeing what we do here. It’s his favourite live show.

I’ll just remind both of them: sit on your hands. You’re not allowed to wave. You’re not allowed to speak. There are people up there that will help enforce the rules.

Would the House please join me in making them most welcome.

D. Routley: As I head towards retirement from 19 years in this House, I look up to see the Steelworkers in the gallery.

It was 22 years ago when I was afraid that the job that I was doing would be privatized. I looked for a toolbox that would help us defend our jobs. It was my membership in the Steelworkers and the training they gave me that led me to protect those jobs, to become a school trustee and eventually end up here. It’s with deep thanks that I pay respect to all the work they do to support workers throughout B.C.

With great gratitude, welcome to the House.

A. Olsen: Today I’d like to welcome Laurie and Montana Cardiff to the chamber. Montana has been working to advocate for themselves and those with disabilities, who finished high school only to find themselves in limbo due to Community Living B.C.’s funding gap, not available until they’re 19 years of age. Lori has been advocating for CLBC to provide guaranteed annual funding for those who do not have transition support, and for support for Indigenous youth.

I’d like to thank Montana and Laurie for their tireless advocacy and for being here with us today.

Will the House please make them feel very welcome.

R. Russell: This is the first time that I’ve stood up to echo an introduction that has already taken place, but rural travel is difficult, and I do not often get guests here from my own riding. So it is really my privilege to continue the introduction that the Premier started.

Paul, welcome to the House.

More importantly, Christina and her partner that are here. Yesterday we heard an introduction of Aleece and the comment about her framing at the prayer breakfast: “Be the salt; be the light.”

Christina is carrying an enormous burden, and in my conversations with her, it is amazing that she is still that. She still comes to this with the passion of not saying how we can do a better job of helping her — we all know she needs that — but instead saying, “I want to get better so that I can help other people,” which is remarkable.

Please welcome them.

R. Glumac: I was in a meeting this morning, sitting across from somebody. I recognized this person, but it wasn’t until the end of the meeting that I realized it was my classmate from junior high school. I was in a Steelworkers meeting. I just want to take a moment, because I don’t get a chance to introduce classmates from junior high school very often — John Bing from United Steelworkers, from Port Alberni.

Would the House make him feel welcome.

Introduction and
First Reading of Bills

BILL 24 — ENERGY STATUTES
AMENDMENT ACT, 2024

Hon. J. Osborne presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2024.

Hon. J. Osborne: I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

I’m pleased to introduce Bill 24, the Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2024. This bill would amend the Clean Energy Act and the Utilities Commission Act.

[10:20 a.m.]

The proposed amendments will provide government with clear authority to make regulations respecting public utility electricity service for cryptocurrency mining and repeal provisions related to the standing offer program, which has been indefinitely suspended since 2019.

I’ll be pleased to elaborate on the nature of these amendments during the second reading of the bill.

The Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. J. Osborne: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 24, Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2024 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M210 — CORRECTION STATUTES
AMENDMENT ACT, 2024

A. Olsen presented a bill intituled Correction Statutes Amendment Act, 2024.

A. Olsen: I move that a bill intituled the Correction Statutes Amendment Act, 2024, of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read a first time now.

I reintroduce this bill in the House for the fourth time to continue to raise attention to the human rights of British Columbians held in corrections facilities. On any given day, like today, there are 33 individuals in solitary who have been there for longer than 15 days, some longer than 60 days. Both adults and youth are subjected to this torture.

Solitary confinement disproportionately impacts Indigenous people, in particular, Indigenous women and girls. Close to a quarter of people in solitary confinement in this province identify as Indigenous, despite making up only 6 percent of our province’s population. In February of last year, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs called solitary confinement: “Retraumatizing, abusive and a colonial form of control over Indigenous bodies.”

This bill seeks to prohibit the use of prolonged solitary confinement and change standards of living for people in the justice system. This bill prohibits a person from being held in solitary confinement if they are pregnant, at risk of harm or suicide, have a prescribed disability or require medical observation.

Finally, this bill requires the provincial director of correctional services to publish annual disaggregated statistics on the number of individuals held in solitary confinement. This bill follows the advocacy from the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs, the B.C. Ombudsperson, the B.C. Representative for Children and Youth and a decision from the B.C. Court of Appeal.

I want to thank the campaign for the abolition of solitary confinement for their continued advocacy and work to keep this issue in the discussion.

Thank you to the members of this chamber for their consideration of this important bill. Hopefully, we get a chance to finally debate it at second reading.

The Speaker: Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

A. Olsen: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading on the next day after today.

Bill M210, Correction Statutes Amendment Act, 2024, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements
(Standing Order 25B)

VAISAKHI

T. Wat: As the MLA for Richmond North Centre and in my role as B.C. United caucus for multiculturalism, anti-racism initiatives, arts and culture, it is an immense honour to rise today and recognize Vaisakhi, a festival that marks a defining moment in history: the birth of Sikhism and the founding of Khalsa Panth.

Vaisakhi is a time when we not only celebrate these historic beginnings, but we also reflect on the enduring values of courage, justice and social harmony that the Sikh community embodies. These values have been a beacon guiding the immense contribution of Sikh British Columbians in every field. From community services and philanthropy to innovation in science and technology, they enrich our arts and culture — and even within these honourable halls of our Legislature.

This Vaisakhi, let us all, Sikh and non-Sikh British Columbians alike, come together to celebrate the profound traditions and contributions of B.C.’s Sikh community. Let us take inspiration from the values of the Vaisakhi to foster a future where we cherish and draw strength from our diversity.

On behalf of the B.C. United caucus, I wish everyone observing this significant occasion a joyful and prosperous Vaisakhi. May this festival inspire us all to embrace unity, promote peace and continue working towards a society where every individual can thrive.

[10:25 a.m.]

ROMÉO DALLAIRE
AND RWANDAN GENOCIDE

A. Singh: This week marks 30 years since the beginning of the genocide in Rwanda. The killing started on April 7, 1994, as members of the Presidential Guard began assassinating opposition leaders and moderates in the government.

It was among the fastest mass killings in history. A hundred days later, three-quarters of Rwanda’s Tutsis, about half a million people, were dead. The world watched, and most of it did nothing.

Gen. Roméo Dallaire was among the few that cried out — no, screamed out — for help. He had been tasked by the United Nations to lead the implementation of a peace accord in Rwanda. A year after he’d been tasked with that, the military and Hutu militia began their slaughter of the Tutsi minority.

In the first days of the killings, a number of nations sent reconnaissance parties to assess the situation. In General Dallaire’s new book, he writes that at debriefings, one member told him: “General, we’re going to recommend that no one get involved in this complicated mess. It may only be tribal, and it may not last too long.” Others said: “You know, there’s nothing here for us. No strategic resources. The only thing here is people, and there are too many of them anyway.” Absolutely horrific.

That gross abandonment of a sense of humanity, unfortunately, has continued to happen as we see things unfolding in the Middle East.

Many of you will have seen the movie Hotel Rwanda or read the general’s book Shake Hands with the Devil. They delineate the tragedy that was occurring and the bravery and dedication of a few that tried to bring the world’s attention to Rwanda without success.

One of these was General Dallaire, who for me is a true Canadian hero. He has a new book out, The Peace: A Warrior’s Journey, and he was scheduled to speak at Capilano University on April 22, which is the point of my statement. I was hoping you could all be there, but unfortunately, he has fallen ill. That’s going to be postponed.

I hope you’ll all join me in wishing him well. When it’s rescheduled, I encourage you to attend.

He really, truly is a Canadian hero.

PARKINSON’S AWARENESS

S. Bond: April marks Parkinson’s Awareness Month, and today, April 11, is World Parkinson’s Day.

Over 100,000 Canadians, including 17,500 people in our province, live with Parkinson’s disease. The disease is caused when the cells in the brain that produce dopamine are damaged or destroyed. Unfortunately, the reasons why this occurs are not yet fully known and more research is required to determine why it occurs.

Most of us recognize Parkinson’s disease by the tremors it commonly causes in those affected, although it is a far more complex disease that has wide-ranging symptoms that vary from individual to individual. From difficulty walking and speaking to cognitive challenges and emotional changes, Parkinson’s takes a toll on individuals and their loved ones. As this year’s awareness campaign aims to highlight, Parkinson’s is more than a tremor.

While ongoing research has improved our understanding of the disease and allowed for better treatments and outcomes, we still do not have a cure. That is where organizations such as Parkinson Canada and the Parkinson Society of British Columbia step in. They provide the support that individuals and families need to help them navigate their treatment options once a diagnosis is made. With proper support, people with Parkinson’s are able to manage the worst of this disease and live long, otherwise healthy lives.

I would encourage all British Columbians to take the opportunity to discover how we can make a difference. They can participate in an event, donate or reach out to volunteer with one of these great organizations. Your gift will help someone find the strength that they need to face Parkinson’s.

ABORIGINAL LAND TITLE
OF HAIDA NATION

J. Rice: Since 2002, the Council of the Haida Nation, otherwise known as the CHN, and the province have been preparing for a court case on the question of Aboriginal title on Haida Gwaii, while trying to find a solution through negotiations.

Together we have reached an important milestone in these discussions, and this weekend, I look forward to participating in the signing ceremony of this agreement. We’re in the process of formally — we’re nearly there — recognizing the Haida Nation’s Aboriginal title, which is a foundational step in reconciliation. Aboriginal title refers to the Aboriginal right to land or territory and is a unique right.

[10:30 a.m.]

The agreement provides stability for all residents of Haida Gwaii and the path forward for an orderly and in­cremental approach to implementation of Haida Aboriginal title across the islands.

For more than 20 years, we’ve been engaging constructively on new successful approaches to reconciliation, in­cluding jointly managing aspects of natural resource and land use decision-making on Haida Gwaii. The groundbreaking Kunst’aa Guu–Kunst’aayah reconciliation protocol in 2009 and the accompanying Haida Gwaii Reconciliation Act in 2010 ushered in statutory shared decision-making between the two governments in forestry and protected area management on Haida Gwaii. This agreement recognizes Haida’s Aboriginal title throughout Haida Gwaii, all of Haida Gwaii.

The agreement immediately removes any doubt about whether the Haida Nation has Aboriginal title on Haida Gwaii. It provides stability for everyone. It’s a milestone. It is the first case, I believe, in Canada, where we recognize a complete and full Aboriginal title of a community.

My time is up. There’s so much to say. I can’t even talk; I’m so emotional.

I look forward to us signing this agreement with the Haida Nation, with the Minister of Indigenous Relations, the Premier, and so many others.

Thank you.

I want to thank the Haida Nation for their patience. They waited a long, long time for this.

B.C. AVIATION MUSEUM

A. Olsen: Today I celebrate the B.C. Aviation Museum.

A few weeks ago it was announced that the world-famous and beloved Hawaii Martin Mars water bomber will make its final flight from Sproat Lake, Port Alberni, to the Saanich Peninsula, where it will become a major attraction at the B.C. Aviation Museum located at the Victoria International Airport. People from around the world will be able to visit and learn how the Mars played a central role in the province’s storied history of fighting wildfires.

From 2018, I have supported the museum’s ambitions to acquire the aircraft, and finally, in January 2022, the owner, Coulson Aviation, and the B.C. Aviation Museum began formal donation discussions. Since then, the museum’s Save the Mars team volunteers have worked tirelessly behind the scenes with stakeholders, including Heritage Canada and the Victoria Airport Authority.

Finally, in fall 2023, I reviewed, with the Mars team project lead, Richard Mosdell, president Steve Nichol, treasurer Bob Saunders, director John McManus and executive director Conal Oldfield the next steps to get the Mars to Victoria.

There was only one more chance to rescue the plane with everything aligned. We met with the Minister of Tourism. She immediately saw the opportunity and provided the resources that were needed to make this happen.

This is such good news. Thank you, Minister.

In the fall of 2024, there will be one more flight, and then following that, you can visit the Hawaii Martin Mars at the B.C. Aviation Museum. This is the beginning of an exciting future for the museum.

I want to thank the B.C. Aviation Museum’s amazing staff and all the volunteers for making this an incredible attraction on the Saanich Peninsula. And thank you to the minister for seeing the vision and sharing it.

HÍSW̱ḴE SIÁM.

GREEN SHIRT DAY AND
IMPORTANCE OF ORGAN DONATION

R. Glumac: I want to take a moment to recognize Green Shirt Day, which was on Sunday, April 7. Green Shirt Day highlights the incredible impact that organ and tissue donors have across Canada.

This year marks the five-year anniversary of the first Green Shirt Day. Our government and B.C. Transplant continue to encourage people to make the important choice to improve access to life-saving transplants by registering as an organ donor.

Did you know that one donor can help up to six people that are in need of a transplant? In fact, when Logan Boulet died in 2018, one of the 17 people that died that day when their bus was struck by a truck, he had, only five weeks prior to that, made his decision to be an organ donor. As a result, six of his organs were donated to save the lives of others. This is how Green Shirt Day started. Logan’s amazing gift became an inspiration to so many Canadians.

[10:35 a.m.]

In B.C. in 2023, 563 people received a transplant from 77 living and 160 deceased donors. There are currently more than 6,100 British Columbians that are alive today because of the selfless gift of life from donors across the province.

There is more work to do. Although 90 percent of Canadians support organ donation, only 32 percent have registered as organ donors. I encourage everyone to take two minutes, the time that it takes to listen to this speech, to register as an organ donor. The website is easy to remember, www.taketwominutes.ca.

On behalf of the provincial government, I want to thank all the amazing people that have chosen to give the most amazing gift, the gift of life.

Oral Questions

DRUG DECRIMINALIZATION PROGRAM
AND ILLICIT DRUG USE IN
HEALTH CARE FACILITIES

K. Falcon: British Columbians expect and indeed de­serve timely, quality care in our hospitals, not the nightmare that is currently unfolding. Under this Premier, hospital emergency rooms face repeated closures. Seniors are left languishing in hallways for up to nine days, and there is total chaos being caused by rampant illicit drug use.

Now Fraser Health nurses are speaking out about NDP policy that enables drug users to abandon their hospital beds for up to six hours so that they can go back onto the streets to use drugs without losing their spot. This effectively blocks beds, forcing patients, including seniors, to have to endure care in hallways or suffer long waits in emergency rooms for days on end.

My question to the Premier: why is the Premier continuing to put the rights of drug users to openly use meth, crack cocaine and fentanyl over the rights of nurses and patients to be safe and get the care they deserve?

Hon. A. Dix: This week and in April we have about 10,100 people admitted to our acute care facilities across B.C. They often bring with them very significant challenges. But whether they are people who are addicted to drugs, whether they are people who need any kind of care, they deserve the best possible care we can give them.

I think that our doctors and our nurses and our health sciences professionals do exceptional work. It’s why, over the last six months, I’ve met in significant and long meetings to hear directly from health care workers across the system. It’s why, at their impetus, we’ve added and supported security staff in our health care system. It’s why we treat the patients that come to us — all of them, whatever their circumstances — with the greatest of respect possible.

This is what our acute care hospitals have to do. When people come into our hospitals and they have other circumstances and are addicted to drugs, they absolutely deserve care as much as anyone, and the people who believe that most are our doctors and our nurses and our health sciences professionals. We need to keep them safe, and we need to provide the best possible care to everybody.

K. Falcon: The reality is that we also need to keep our nurses and our patients safe, because they’re the ones having to put up with this. The answer by the minister shows how completely out of touch this Premier and this NDP government are with the chaos that their deliberate policy choices are causing for nurses, patients and their families.

A woman from Surrey shared with us that her 90-​year-old father was put in the same room as a drug user who tried to smoke meth while on oxygen, nearly causing an explosion. She wrote: “My elderly mother was afraid to enter the hospital by herself when visiting my dad. I was shocked at the condition of our hospitals. It is not safe for anyone.”

What is this Premier and minister’s solution to the crisis? A useless task force.

[10:40 a.m.]

Let me tell you this. I would end this nonsense policy within 24 hours of forming government, and I would ask the Premier to stand up and say that we’re putting an end to this nonsense within 24 hours to protect our nurses and patients.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Shhh, Members.

Hon. A. Dix: We have, as I noted, 10,100 people in acute care now, and we know — this was true in the past, and it’s true now — that the people who enter a hospital enter with the issues that they enter with.

Our staff do an extraordinary job in providing them care. Our job, I think, is to do what we’re doing, in partnership with the Doctors of B.C., which is to have more family doctors and more doctors in our province. That is succeeding. Our job is to work in partnership with the B.C. Nurses Union, which we are doing in a North America–leading program to hire nurses and nurse practitioners.

Our job is to support health care workers. It’s not to privatize security and downgrade security, which is a policy that has been discussed, but to hire and train relational security staff. When we announced that, they questioned it. They said: “You’re not going to do it.” Well, in the year that we set to hire 320 people, we hired 320 people, to support people in health care.

Our job is to support all of our workers in our public health care system and to support all of our patients in the public health care system, regardless….

Interjection.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, the hon. Leader of the Opposition — who helped privatize…

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members.

The Minister will conclude.

Hon. A. Dix: …security in our public health care system, who downgraded security, who downgraded training and got rid of occupational health and safety — is speaking out now. We have a different view. We are supporting health care workers across the public health care system.

R. Merrifield: This government’s job is to support our health care workers and to protect our patients, but by telling our health care workers that they can’t take drugs away from people, that they can’t stop drug traffickers and that they can’t stop people from using illicit drugs in their rooms…

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members. Members, please.

Shhh, Members. Members. The member has the floor.

R. Merrifield: …the government is actually facilitating illicit drug use, putting nurses and patients at risk. Often, those using illicit drugs become volatile and a danger to nurses and fellow patients in shared rooms. As B.C. Nurses Union president Adriane Gear says: “Policies can look good on paper, but they don’t enforce them, and at three o’clock in the morning on a Saturday night when you’re working at 50 percent staff, that’s when this stuff blows up.”

Why does the Premier continue to refuse to put nurses and patients first and end the NDP’s dangerous decriminalization experiment?

Hon. A. Dix: I think our work with the BCNU stands in stark contrast to the work done in the past. We are working….

Interjections.

The Speaker: Shhh. Shhh, Members.

The minister will continue.

Hon. A. Dix: As the members of the House know, and they’re just the numbers, between 2009 and 2016, they reduced the actual number of registered nurses in our health care system. They reduced the actual number of registered psychiatric nurses in our health care system. Those are just the numbers; those are just the facts.

We had a record year for recruiting nurses because of our strong belief in their value in the system, and we’re doing it by working with the B.C. Nurses Union, exactly on all of these questions, including on issues of security in our health care system.

[10:45 a.m.]

It’s why we restored what’s called SWITCH BC, the occupational health and safety agency that they disbanded, which works to protect nurses in the system. They disbanded it, and security concerns went up. We’ve reinstated it, and we’ve hired 320 relational security officers, employees of health authority systems.

Interjections.

Hon. A. Dix: They disparage that, hon. Speaker, but that is precisely what the B.C. Nurses Union asked for.

The Speaker: Kelowna-Mission, supplemental.

R. Merrifield: I can assure you that the B.C. Nurses Union did not ask for this.

We’ve learned from nurses that drug consumption and open drug dealing are happening on the rooftop garden patio at St. Paul’s Hospital and that health care professionals are being advised not to report these activities to law enforcement.

Could the minister please confirm these reports?

Hon. A. Dix: Nobody, nobody, nobody is constrained from reporting anything to law enforcement.

POLICE SERVICES IN SURREY

A. Olsen: Yesterday the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General disagreed with my observation that the handling of the Surrey policing transition is resulting in the politicization of public safety. Anyone who has followed the Surrey police transition knows that it has been fumbled from the beginning. The result is the minister and the mayor of one of the largest cities in our province sparring in public. How does that foster public confidence?

Now the National Police Federation union president Brian Sauvé has written the minister to address his “misleading statements.” It’s about police of jurisdiction. The minister claimed in a letter to Brenda Locke that he can force the RCMP to “work under the command of the Surrey police service.” Of course, the all-party consensus report tabled two years ago addressed these jurisdictional concerns, but the minister ignores good advice.

To the Minister of Public Safety, after receiving Mr. Sauvé’s letter admonishing him for misleading statements, does he still think the diminished confidence in public safety is disconnected from the mishandling of the Surrey policing fiasco?

Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member.

I made no misleading statements. What’s clear when it comes to Surrey and in fact policing, the structure of policing in the province of British Columbia, is that it is the authority of the province of British Columbia — not Ottawa, not the city of Surrey. It’s the authority of the province of British Columbia as to whether we have contract policing, municipal policing or a provincial police force. That decision is made here.

What I also said is that there’s a path forward, which we have been working on. We have an agreement-in-principle that my ministry and the federal RCMP, the commissioner and Public Safety Canada have agreed on, a path forward. I will have more to say on that in the weeks ahead.

The package the city of Surrey rejected is not about whether or not the transition is going ahead but is, in fact, about the law of the province of British Columbia — that Surrey will be policed by the Surrey police service. In terms of the contract, that is something that is taken up by the police federation with the RCMP management, and it is about ensuring that the law of British Columbia is upheld.

The law of British Columbia is clear. Surrey will be policed by the Surrey police service.

A. Olsen: There’s no question about that last part of the statement, but on the entire process, this minister understood two years ago that the police of jurisdiction was going to be a problem. Here we are two years later, and on the police of jurisdiction question — surprise, surprise, to everybody but the minister, hopefully — the jurisdictional issue exists.

Mr. Sauvé encourages the Public Safety Minister to “be more progressive and modern in their approach to labour relations.” That’s got to make the B.C. Fed smile.

Continuing, the NPF has been asking the province for a clear transition plan, with a definitive ending for the RCMP in Surrey. “Shouldn’t the province now have a plan? We eagerly await the details of the plan. Our members and the residents of Surrey deserve better from their political leaders, including clear, factual and evidence-based information on public safety.” That’s from the head of the National Police Federation.

[10:50 a.m.]

The minister flexes his legislative muscles and has submitted a letter to Surrey. He told him that he had a plan with the federal government for the police jurisdictional issue Surrey police brought to our committee two years ago. It’s infuriating that we’ve worked so hard on building all-party consensus on police reform, only to watch this minister squander it.

To the Minister of Public Safety, he told Surrey that he had it all sorted out, and now Mr. Sauvé has written a letter condemning his statements as misleading. Tell the people of Surrey, all British Columbians, on the record, how he intends to navigate the police jurisdictional issues he has allowed to fester for the last two years.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question.

The transition has been underway. The transition continues. The member can shake his head, but the reality is this. The law of the province of British Columbia is Surrey will be policed by the Surrey police service.

Interjection.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I didn’t interrupt you, Member, so please don’t interrupt when I’m trying to give you an answer to a question that you asked.

Interjection.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I’m sorry, Member, but….

Interjection.

Hon. M. Farnworth: I am answering the question. The member asked the question, and we listened.

The Speaker: Members, let’s get on with it.

Hon. M. Farnworth: One thing I do know, hon. Member, there’s definitely no consensus on Surrey on that side of the House.

What I can tell you, hon. Speaker, is that all of those issues have been part and parcel of the process that has been underway. All of it.

As I said a moment ago to you, in terms of the pass forward when it comes to police of jurisdiction, that issue has been front and centre in terms of my ministry, the federal government, the Ministry of Public Safety and the RCMP at the very highest level, involving the commissioner. I also said that there is an agreement-in-principle on how that will move forward, and that will be unveiled in the coming week.

What I can also tell you is that we have had key persons, Jessica McDonald, working very closely with all the parties. It’s unfortunate that the city of Surrey has chosen not to participate in that. We have made a very generous offer to address their concerns. The city of Surrey wants to walk away from $150 million, plus up to $100 million, in terms of ensuring a smooth transition so that their concerns are addressed.

All of the issues that have been raised are being ad­dressed in a plan that has been in place since day one. The transition will continue regardless of the judicial review because the law of the land and the law of the province of British Columbia is that Surrey will be policed by the Surrey police service.

MANAGEMENT OF SAFE DRUG SUPPLY
AND DIVERSION TO ILLICIT MARKET

B. Banman: This NDP government has built a reputation for secrecy and authoritarianism. In the past few months, we have seen a gag order on the RCMP, a ban on peaceful demonstrations near schools, a disturbing pattern of corruption with government grant programs, and now the B.C. NDP is eliminating the legal profession’s independence from government.

There is a pattern emerging. This NDP government is obsessed with trying to slam through bad socialist ideas that don’t work, and then they turn to an authoritarian, secretive approach when they have to cover up the mess they have made. Frankly, it’s embarrassing.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members. Shhh, Members.

B. Banman: The biggest mess of them all is, without a doubt, this NDP government’s decriminalization and safe supply program. It’s embarrassing for British Columbians to watch B.C….

The Speaker: Question, Member.

B. Banman: …become the number one source for illicit safe supply, opioid pills for gangs all across Canada. It is a shameful and disturbing misuse of taxpayer dollars.

The Speaker: Member, question, please.

B. Banman: My question, Mr. Speaker…

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members, let’s hear the question, please.

B. Banman: …to the Solicitor General: how much money has this B.C. government transferred from taxpayers to drug dealers through the safe supply program?

Hon. D. Eby: The member said a lot in his question. There are a couple pieces I want to address.

First of all, he said that his party will support people going to local schools, threatening children, threatening teachers, making them feel unsafe. There was a protest where people were banging on the windows of schools

[10:55 a.m.]

Seventeen major incidents at schools in British Columbia. A law establishing a 20-metre perimeter around schools just to keep teachers and kids safe, and his party opposes it.

They oppose the Legal Profession Act bill, which is going to make legal services more affordable for British Columbians — British Columbians struggling with family law issues, trying to find someone to help them, where a paralegal can assist them. His party is going to stand with…. I don’t know who — I guess a small group of lawyers that are benefiting from the existing system — against affordable legal services for British Columbians.

And now, after sitting with the B.C. Liberal Party, now the BCUPs, not saying anything during the all-party committee where we canvassed all these issues around, “How do we keep people alive and get them into treatment,” not saying anything through that whole period of time, not saying anything about money laundering, when people carried bags of cash into B.C. casinos…. Where was he on those issues? Now he says he’s going to take action on drug dealers? Well, where was he when that was going on, when he and that party were sitting on this side of the House?

It’s too late, Member. We’re taking action. We’re arresting drug dealers, we’re seizing the Hell’s Angels’ clubhouses, we’re seizing property through unexplained wealth orders, we’re funding the police, and we’re keeping kids safe at school.

B. Banman: This Solicitor General shows a lot of bluster and pomp and, frankly, lacks any real substance. This week he bragged about having a deal done with Surrey on the policing issue. Then he proceeds to whip up a three-egg omelette and apply it directly to his face after the city of Surrey rejects his deal.

The RCMP’s union said that this NDP government has not communicated with them. Because of his hubris and his unwillingness to sit down and have a genuine conversation with the city of Surrey, the issue of policing in Surrey continues to be up in the air.

Public safety is a mess under this NDP government. Gangs are running rampant. There are new shootings every week.

The Speaker: Question, Member.

B. Banman: Safe supply drugs are flooding our streets and our schools.

The Speaker: Question, please.

B. Banman: Once again I will ask this minister about the tax-funded, Canada-wide safe supply drug trade that has been established by the brilliant and oh-so-compassionate policies of this NDP.

The Speaker: Question, Member.

B. Banman: This NDP safe supply program is the biggest…

The Speaker: Member, please.

B. Banman: …direct transfer of wealth from taxpayers to drug traffickers…

Interjections.

The Speaker: Shhh.

Member, please ask a question.

B. Banman: …in the history of B.C. B.C. taxpayers are literally buying the drugs for dealers to sell.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members.

B. Banman: My question to the Solicitor General: do we have any idea exactly how many taxpayer-funded safe supply pills have been exported out of B.C. by criminals and gangs?

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members. Members, please.

We have distributed, circulated, how to have some decorum in the House so many times, over and over again. Please pay attention.

If next time you are all warned, if the member is not paying attention, you will be kicked out. Simple as that.

Hon. D. Eby: I heard a lot of talk from the member about chickens and eggs. I remember when the member was mayor, struggling with homelessness when the previous government sat on this side of the House, and he spread chicken manure to try to deal with the homeless problem.

We’re taking a different approach, hon. Member.

Now, he stands up again, and he says he wants to prolong the uncertainty in Surrey. People in Surrey just want decent policing services. Our government will ensure that when they call 911, they get the support they deserve.

The member has indicated his political interest in prolonging this issue for as long as he can, because he thinks it’s in his political interest. But it’s not in the interest of the people of Surrey.

I encourage that member to stand with us and deliver the message to the city of Surrey. The transition’s going to go through. We’ll provide the support so taxpayers are protected. Let’s get on with business.

[11:00 a.m.]

FUNDING FOR NANAIMO REGIONAL
GENERAL HOSPITAL PROJECTS

A. Walker: I recently visited a constituent at the Na­naimo Regional General Hospital. He insisted that I come first-hand to experience and see the state of our hospital.

The time that I visited him, he had spent, at that point, three days in the hallway with no privacy, no bathroom. He described the three days of constant noise and 24-hour light as torture.

Now, I know that this doesn’t surprise the Minister of Health. This is, unfortunately, the new normal at the Na­naimo Regional General Hospital. Our hospital has capacity for 346 patients, yet last month we saw 447 patients accommodated. That’s over 100 patients in hallways, corridors, broom closets, anywhere they can fit them. The staff and the patients deserve a lot better.

The Nanaimo region has one of the fastest-growing populations in the country, and the number of those over 75 years old is growing faster here than anywhere else. Island Health recognized this, and they identified a new location for a patient tower, but for years, this Minister of Health has been refusing to listen. Instead the NDP is planning on spending $45 million over the next four years…

The Speaker: Question, Member.

Question, please.

A. Walker: …to convert more broom closets into patient rooms.

People north of the Malahat deserve better than band-aid solutions and hallway medicine.

Why does the Minister of Health continue to refuse to listen to Island Health, and when will the NDP commit to funding the desperately needed patient tower at Nanaimo Regional General Hospital?

Hon. A. Dix: We are engaging, and the member knows this, in unprecedented investments in Nanaimo. We’re building hundreds of new long-term-care beds, which are significantly needed in that community. We’ve delivered that. We’ve put it in place. We’ve delivered that, something that had failed to be done for a generation before that, which is significant.

When I became Minister of Health, the ICU, and now a new high-acuity unit, were the worst in Canada. We built a new ICU and a new high-acuity unit. And we are now building a new cancer centre for Nanaimo. These are unprecedented investments in that hospital.

We’re going to have to continue to invest in Nanaimo because people are coming. That’s why we need more doctors and nurses and health sciences professionals, which is what our health human resources plan is all about. We are going to continue to invest in Nanaimo and support Nanaimo patients.

The Speaker: Member, supplemental.

A. Walker: The challenge that I’m hearing is that there’s no listening.

The question was about the patient tower. The question is about when will this government listen to Island Health about the desperate need to find out where to put these patients.

The broom closets. The chapel downstairs now has patients in it. The physiotherapy room downstairs. The pool was closed. The rehab unit was closed to find room to put stuff and people. The hospital is bursting at the seams, and Island Health has a plan to solve this.

With the patient tower also is the request for a heart catheterization lab. I’ve heard of three men in their 50s and 60s recently that have gone to the hospital to receive care.

The clinical standard is care within 90 minutes. Patient 1 — it took three phone calls for that patient to be transferred from Nanaimo…

The Speaker: Question, Member, please.

A. Walker: …to Victoria. He was delivered eight to nine hours later and now has permanent heart damage.

The Speaker: Member. Member, just ask a question, please.

We don’t have much time. Thank you so much. Please.

A. Walker: I get one question every two weeks in this place…

The Speaker: I know. I understand. I appreciate that.

A. Walker: …and I have taken less time than other members here.

I know that the Speaker doesn’t want to hear this, but a patient died because the Nanaimo Regional General Hospital could not transfer that patient to Victoria. It took three phone calls, and the hospital in Victoria refused to admit that patient. They bled out at the Na­naimo hospital.

People in Nanaimo are demanding a heart catheterization lab.

The Speaker: Thank you.

A. Walker: I recognize the Speaker doesn’t want to hear this, but my question is: when will this government fund the heart catheterization lab at the Nanaimo hospital?

The Speaker: Minister of Health, let’s have a brief answer, please.

Hon. A. Dix: As noted, we are making unprecedented investments at Nanaimo Regional General Hospital be­cause of the very needs identified by the hon. member. We are also having, and the success is showing in our health human resources plan, unprecedented success at recruiting doctors, both family doctors and specialists; nurses; health sciences professionals; and health care workers in our health care system.

We’re going to continue to do that in Nanaimo. The issues of the people of Nanaimo and the region are a high priority for me. That is why I personally visited the hospital to engage with staff there on these very questions just a few months ago, and we’re going to continue to do this work.

DRUG DECRIMINALIZATION PROGRAM
AND ILLICIT DRUG USE IN
HEALTH CARE FACILITIES

K. Kirkpatrick: We’ve learned from nurses that drug users in hospitals are being provided with lockboxes to store their drugs, paraphernalia and even weapons, accessible throughout their stay. We’ve learned from nurses that they are being instructed to provide burner kits, including glass pipes and matches, to drug users in hospitals.

[11:05 a.m.]

Can the minister tell us how many of these burner kits have been distributed in hospitals?

Hon. A. Dix: What I believe is that we have to keep people safe in our hospitals, and we have to provide people who come to the hospital with very severe issues, which is disproportionately the case, with care. That’s what our doctors and our nurses and our health sciences professionals and our health care workers commit to do every day.

They wouldn’t agree, I don’t think, with the idea being put forward that people with the most severe illness possible would somehow be kicked out of a hospital. They provide care to the people who arrive in hospitals. They’re going to continue to do that.

We’re going to continue to support them and work with them in our unprecedented work that we’re doing right now with the B.C. Nurses Union, and we’re going to continue to do that in the future.

ILLICIT DRUG USE IN
HEALTH CARE FACILITIES
AND WORKING CONDITIONS FOR NURSES

S. Bond: It takes courage for nurses in British Columbia to stand up, and they are standing up every single day and telling this Premier and this minister that they do not feel safe in the hospitals of British Columbia.

What do we hear in here? “Oh, don’t worry about it. It’s not allowed.” Well, it may not be allowed, but nurses are tired of the lack of action of this Premier and minister, and it is embarrassing that they stand up every day and dismiss stories like this one.

How about hospitals that are installing smoke detectors designed to alert staff about the presence of drug smoke from substances like meth and fentanyl, or how about the fact that nurses…? Because their exposure to drug smoke has been so severe, it necessitated emergency treatment. There have been claims filed with WorkSafeBC.

It takes courage to speak up. Maybe the Premier should show some courage today.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members, please.

S. Bond: He should get up and admit that his policies are causing fear, anxiety and, in fact, damage to people in the health care system.

Will he show some courage, admit his policies are a mess and fix them?

Hon. A. Dix: Well, we do, every day, work with B.C. nurses on these questions. I’ve met at 33 hospitals, in every case with nurses, talking about the issues that they face: issues of security, issues of burnout, all the issues that they face in our health care system. We’ve taken action on what they’ve requested.

Now, the opposition apparently opposes adding se­curity in our health care system. They oppose adding smoke detectors in our health care system to keep people safer. We are in favour of those things because they help keep the very nurses they’re talking about safer, and we’re going to continue to do that work with B.C. nurses and B.C. doctors.

The Speaker: The Chair will allow a supplemental, please.

S. Bond: What the opposition is opposed to is the use of illicit drugs in hospitals. It is the absolute lunacy of making nurses supply burner kits. We’re opposed to nurses needing emergency treatment after doing their job in hospitals.

What we are opposed to is a government that refuses to acknowledge the seriousness of this issue day after day. And here’s what we’re most opposed to: nurses feeling like they can’t stand up and tell the truth about their circumstances because they are afraid about the consequences they may face.

It’s time for the Premier to get up today and reassure nurses that they can speak up and that he will stand up for them and do something to change the absolutely terrible situation nurses are facing in this province.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, for starters, we’re working with the B.C. Nurses Union every day.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Members, now please, let’s conclude this.

Hon. A. Dix: We’re working with them every day to ensure that we have more nurses in our health care system. We, last year, working with nurses in B.C., set a record for new nurse registrants in our health care system.

[11:10 a.m.]

This is contrary, and it’s hard for them to hear, to the deliberate policies that saw a reduction in registered nurses and a reduction in registered psychiatric nurses for seven years under the previous government, starting with the time the Leader of the Opposition was Minister of Health.

We have a different approach. We’re working with the BCNU, not reducing the number of nurses. When nurses came to us….

Interjections.

The Speaker: Shh. Let’s not prolong it, please.

Hon. A. Dix: We know that we need stronger security in our health care system. That’s why, listening to nurses and listening to the HEU and listening to health science professionals, we added 320 regional security officers.

This is a contrast to a government that downgraded and privatized security. We are committed to working, supporting, protecting and, every day, doing the work required to make our health care system better by working with nurses, and we’ll continue to do so.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

The Speaker: Members, I have the honour of tabling two reports for the registrar of lobbyists, Determination Decision 23-07 and Reconsideration Decision 23-07.

Reports from Committees

AGRICULTURE, FISH AND
FOOD COMMITTEE

R. Glumac: I am pleased to present the first report of the Select Standing Committee on Agriculture, Fish and Food for the fifth session of the 42nd parliament titled Carbon Sequestration and Related Technology in B.C.’s Agricultural Sector.

I move that the report be taken as read and received.

Motion approved.

R. Glumac: I ask leave of the House to move a motion to adopt the report.

Leave granted.

R. Glumac: I move that the report be adopted and, in doing so, I would like to make some brief comments.

Our committee makes 12 recommendations to promote the adoption of practices and technologies that sequester carbon, including reducing barriers to government programs and streamlining data collection. In the course of our work, we heard from 32 participants, in a series of briefings, as well as public consultation.

The committee heard about the serious effects of climate change on British Columbians, including what those working in the agricultural sector are experiencing. We also heard that carbon sequestration in agriculture is one opportunity to address climate change. Individuals and organizations also told us that not only do certain agricultural practices and technologies sequester carbon; they have many other benefits for producers, such as enhanced disaster resilience, financial benefits, improved attraction of pollinators and weed suppression.

On behalf of the committee members, I would like to sincerely thank the farmers, ranchers, producers, Indigenous organizations, agritech innovators, researchers and many others who shared their experiences and expertise with us.

Committee members agreed on the importance of education and knowledge-sharing opportunities related to carbon sequestration. Our recommendations support developing and improving knowledge-sharing programs like field days, virtual seminars and extension services. We acknowledge that these programs can be effectively delivered by many different providers, and the best approach may vary across the province.

We also heard about the important role of collaboration between farmers, agritech, innovators, non-profit organizations, academia and government. Our recommendations include fostering these partnerships to develop a suite of soil health indicators and to monitor the effects of different practices and technologies on soil carbon levels.

We also recommend supporting innovation in the agritech sector by investing in soil testing, reducing barriers to research and development and considering opportunities for farming pilot projects.

I’d like to express my appreciation to staff in the Parliamentary Committee’s Office who supported our work, including Karan Riarh, Katey Stickle, Mary Heeg, Mary Newell, Sean Morgado and Alexa Neufeld.

Thank you, as well, to the staff of Hansard Services for their assistance in our work.

I would also like to thank committee members for their dedication and particularly recognize and support the Deputy Chair, the member for Delta South.

I. Paton: I would also like to extend my gratitude to committee members, including the Chair, the member for Port Moody–Coquitlam, for their work and diligence over the past 12 months.

[11:15 a.m.]

I would also like to recognize everyone who took the time to share their experiences and knowledge with the committee. We sincerely appreciated hearing from so many British Columbians with on-the-ground experience related to agriculture and carbon sequestration.

We heard about the challenges that farmers, producers and ranchers are facing in this province. These include serious impacts of climate change, like drought and wildfires, as well as challenges accessing programs and supports.

Our recommendations are intended to make it easier for people working in the agriculture sector to adopt practices that best fit their circumstances, rather than adding prescriptive requirements. We agreed that it would be beneficial to have a one-stop shop where farmers and ranchers can access information about programs and supports related to carbon sequestration. The committee also supported increasing the accessibility of existing programs.

We heard that the cost of purchasing equipment, including equipment that farmers need for cover cropping, can be cost-prohibitive, and we supported developing and ex­panding regional equipment-lending programs and cover crop seed programs.

Finally, our committee recognized that ensuring long-term and predictable access to land is vital to enable farmers and ranchers to sequester carbon.

I would like to thank all the staff in the Parliamentary Committees Office and Hansard Services who supported our work. It was a very successful and interesting year.

The Speaker: Members, the question is adoption of the report.

Motion approved.

INFORMATION AND PRIVACY
COMMISSIONER APPOINTMENT COMMITTEE

G. Begg: I have the honour to present the report of the Special Committee to Appoint an Information and Privacy Commissioner.

I move that the report be taken as read and received.

Motion approved.

G. Begg: I ask leave of the House to move a motion to adopt the report.

Leave granted.

The Speaker: Please proceed.

G. Begg: I move that the report be adopted, and in doing so, it is my pleasure to share some comments in my role as Chair of the committee.

This report contains the committee’s unanimous recommendation to appoint Michael Harvey as B.C.’s new Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Since our committee was struck in November, we conducted a rigorous and thorough recruitment process, during which we received 30 applications and interviewed eight candidates. Throughout the process, we were particularly impressed by Mr. Harvey.

Mr. Harvey most recently served as Information and Privacy Commissioner for Newfoundland and Labrador. During this time, he demonstrated a commitment to information and privacy rights and established a reputation for his strong advocacy in these areas. He has also taken on national leadership roles related to health privacy and chaired a national body of information and privacy commissioners.

Prior to his work, he held many senior positions in the Newfoundland and Labrador public service and has demonstrated strong leadership qualities and a commitment to integrity, service and inclusivity.

The committee was impressed by his work and is confident that his experience, coupled with his new ideas and strong ethical leadership, will be assets as he takes now the role of Information and Privacy Commissioner of B.C.

The committee also appreciated Mr. Harvey’s focus on building relationships and listening when working with diverse communities. We valued his emphasis on collaboration and including divisive voices in decision-making processes and are confident that his approach will ensure continued public confidence in the Office of Information and Privacy Commissioner.

Would the House please join me in welcoming Mr. Harvey, who is here in the gallery today.

On behalf of the committee and all members of the Legislative Assembly, I would like to thank Michael McEvoy for his public service and dedication as Information and Privacy Commissioner for the past six years and wish him well in his retirement. I would also like to recognize Mr. McEvoy’s service as acting commissioner until Mr. Harvey’s term starts.

Mr. McEvoy, too, is with us in the gallery today.

[11:20 a.m.]

Finally, I express my gratitude to the Deputy Chair, the member for Kelowna-Mission, and all committee members for their thoughtfulness and collaboration during our work.

R. Merrifield: Today, as the Chair has just said, is a pivotal moment in the history of our province’s guardianship of information and privacy rights. It was a distinct honour and privilege to serve this House as the Deputy Chair on this committee, and it was truly re­markable to come to a unanimous decision in the recommendation for the next Information and Privacy Commissioner, Michael Harvey.

First and foremost, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to the staff, notably Kate Ryan-Lloyd and Jennifer Arril, who literally tirelessly and unwaveringly dedicated themselves to this task.

Your professionalism and commitment to excellence has not only facilitated our process but has elevated the standards of public service that the citizens of British Columbia deserve.

To my fellow committee members, as we know from the Chair — MLA Surrey-Guildford, the MLA North Island, MLA Peace River North, MLA Saanich North and the Islands and the MLA for Surrey-Cloverdale — your collaboration, insight and bipartisan spirit have been instrumental in reaching a unanimous decision. It is a testament to our collective commitment to serving the best interests of our constituents and transcending party lines for the greater good of our province.

We did embark on a comprehensive search, literally worldwide, meticulously evaluating candidates to ensure that the next Information and Privacy Commissioner would bring not only a wealth of experience but also innovative ideas to British Columbia. It’s with great pride that I stand and continue the announcement from the Chair that we have found such a candidate in Michael Harvey.

Mr. Harvey’s exemplary tenure as Information and Privacy Commissioner of Newfoundland and Labrador has prepared him to assume this crucial role with both the knowledge and the foresight required to navigate the challenges of today and tomorrow. His deep commitment to upholding information and privacy rights, coupled with his respect for the expertise and contributions of employees, positions him to provide effective leadership in our ongoing quest to protect the privacy and information rights of our citizens.

Furthermore, Mr. Harvey’s ability to work with diverse communities and stakeholders, along with his proven track record of advocating effectively for the public, reassures us that he is the right choice to lead our province into a future where information and privacy are safeguarded with integrity and foresight.

I look forward to welcoming Mr. Harvey and his family to the Okanagan and my home riding of Kelowna-Mission as they explore some of the best skiing and lake activities the province has to offer.

As we prepare to welcome Mr. Harvey to his new role, I also want to extend our collective appreciation to Michael McEvoy for his commendable service and dedication as the Information and Privacy Commissioner over the last six years. His contributions have been invaluable, and we thank him for his ongoing service until Mr. Harvey assumes office.

In closing, I want to reaffirm our commitment to the principles of transparency, accountability and the protection of privacy rights. The appointment of Michael Harvey as the Information and Privacy Commissioner marks a new chapter in our province’s dedication to these ideals.

I am confident that under his leadership, we will continue to uphold and advance the privacy and information rights of all British Columbians.

The Speaker: The question is adoption of the report.

Motion approved.

Motions Without Notice

APPOINTMENT OF
INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONER

G. Begg: I ask leave of the House to move a motion recommending to Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor that Michael Harvey be appointed as Information and Privacy Commissioner for the province of British Columbia.

Leave granted.

G. Begg: I move:

[That the Legislative Assembly recommend to Her Honour the Lieutenant Governor that Michael Harvey be appointed as an Officer of the Legislature to exercise the powers and duties assigned to the Information and Privacy Commissioner for the Province of British Columbia for a six-year term commencing May 6, 2024, pursuant to the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act.]

Motion approved.

The Speaker: Members, now that the motion has passed and we have Mr. Harvey in place, on behalf of British Columbia and all the members in this Legislature, we welcome you. Thank you.

[11:25 a.m.]

Standing Order 35

REQUEST TO DEBATE A MATTER OF
URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE —
ILLICIT DRUG USE IN HEALTH FACILITIES

T. Stone: I move that, pursuant to Standing Order 35, the House do now adjourn for the purpose of discussing a matter of urgent public importance, specifically the explosion of open drug use and trafficking in our hospitals across B.C. as a result of decriminalization.

Health care workers are facing an epidemic of violent behaviour, exposure to weapons, and deadly toxic drugs and fumes. Some nurses have even been administered Narcan due to this exposure.

Reports indicate daily drug-dealing activity on the fourth-floor rooftop garden at St. Paul’s Hospital. Nurses are told that they must provide burner kits, including glass pipes and matches, so people can smoke drugs in hospital, exposing nurses, newborn infants and patients to toxic smoke.

Nurses have been ordered to offer lock boxes to drug users to store their weapons and drugs, accessible at any time. As empty beds are saved for violent patients who are allowed to leave their bed unoccupied for up to six hours at a time to use or deal drugs, other patients are subjected to hallway medicine.

This is happening all over British Columbia, hospitals in every community of this province. I hope that all members agree that this escalating decriminalization crisis in our hospitals warrants an emergency debate in this House and ask that this take place today. Thank you.

The Speaker: Thank you, Member. We’ll take it under advisement.

You have something to table, Member? Would you like to say something?

Hon. M. Farnworth: Yes, thank you, hon. Speaker. As you well know and as the member will know, section 35 is used for debating those issues that are not able to be discussed or debated in the chamber or opportunities for that. We have just spent a full question period debating and answering questions on that very issue. We have been doing that much of this week.

In your deliberations, I would remind you that Standing Order 35 is for those things that do not get an opportunity to be discussed. This has been discussed and continues to be discussed, and I have no doubt that it will continue to be discussed in the future, so we think there has been ample opportunity.

The Speaker: Thank you, Members.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call continued Committee of Supply on the estimates of the Ministry of Health.

In the Douglas Fir Room, Section A, I call continued committee on Bill 17, the Police Amendment Act.

In Committee C, the Birch Room, I call continued Committee of Supply, Ministry of Social Development and Poverty Reduction.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); J. Tegart in the chair.

The committee met at 11:29 a.m.

The Chair: We’ll call the meeting to order.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $32,710,062,000 (continued).

[11:30 a.m.]

S. Bond: I’m going to pick up where I left off yesterday, particularly in light of the fact that the minister today held a press conference. I want to walk through some of the specific details. I’m assuming that his staff has had a chance to go back over the data sets for the questions which we were not provided answers for yesterday.

This morning the minister referenced the increase in population that I raised in this House yesterday. Specifically, he noted that more than 370,000 people came to B.C. last year, which is a 3.6 percent increase. He noted that that was compared to a 16 percent increase in doctors. But that goes precisely to my point yesterday that without understanding the specific capacity of those net new doctors — how many are full-time and able to attach full patient panels — it is not an apples-to-apples comparison, as the minister tried to suggest yesterday.

As we started to discuss yesterday…. The minister has had time. Hopefully, the staff have gone back over the data sets. He obviously has them. So I’m going to try again today.

Can the minister detail for me how many of the 700-plus family physicians are practising longitudinal family practice full-time, part-time or even just one day a week?

Hon. A. Dix: It is absolutely an apples-to-apples comparison. Longitudinal family physicians, by health authority, went from, in the period we’re talking about…. We’ll stay with the 708. There are an additional 57 doctors that have been hired since then, but we’ll stay with the 708. It was 4,289. That included full-time and part-time, and it’s now 4,997, which is an increase of 708.

This morning we talked about improvements in the platform for attaching patients and the critical thing that had been done, the work that had never been done before in our provincial attachment system, which is to upload patient panels from doctors to make the discussion of attachment to a family doctor not about statistics or surveys but to make it about people and patients.

As the member will know, because she has that material, more than 4,500 nurse practitioners and doctors have provided their specific attachment data to that system. It’s been determined amongst those 4,500 doctors that 170,000 spaces for patients are available. In addition to that, there are significant — in the hundreds of thousands — patient spaces available in need of practice doctors.

Of course, we’ve done 85 percent of the doctors attaching to that system. We’ve got 15 percent more, so there’ll be more.

What we put in place this morning was a system to more easily, through digital means, connect the people who need a family doctor or nurse practitioner to those doctors’ offices that are available to take patients. So very specific data that’s never been available before, about attachment in our province and the need for attachment in our province, is now available to us, and the ability to attach people is available to us.

Specifically, there were 170,000 people based on the detailed 4,500 patient panels we’ve received. It’s just an apples-to-apples comparison. It’s 4,289, and then it became 4,997.

S. Bond: Well, what the minister has once again today been either unwilling or unable to provide me with is a simple answer to a question of how many of the 700 new doctors, which the minister and this government trot out every single opportunity, are working full-time, part-time or even one day a week in longitudinal family practice. I think most British Columbians would expect there should be an answer to that question. I certainly do.

Let’s move on to the fact that this morning the minister also spoke about needing more family doctors. We certainly agree with that statement — and far more than even another 700 in order to meet the demand of a growing population and to make sure that everyone who has a family doctor gets one, or a primary care provider.

[11:35 a.m.]

If the minister cannot tell me what is the current FTE status of those already recruited, how can the minister properly set a definitive urgent-recruitment target? Can the minister tell me what the recruitment target is to meet the needs of individuals in British Columbia?

Hon. A. Dix: We provide very significant tracking, but let’s just review, because the member says we need more family doctors. Well, we’ve delivered more family doctors working with the Doctors of B.C. We have delivered more nurse practitioners working with the Nurses and Nurse Practitioners of B.C., and we need to continue that progress.

How do we do that? We do that by training more family doctors. So 128 new spaces at UBC medical school, which is good news for us, because in B.C., when people graduate in B.C., they stay in B.C., which is the difference between ourselves and other provinces. This is a real credit to the UBC medical students, to UBC and to our health care system.

We also make it easier for international medical graduates to come and be registered in B.C. That number, in the calendar year, was 793 last year. We recruit doctors of all types — the almost 1,000 newly registered doctors in 2023. And we continue to do that.

We do it by training more doctors here, by improving pathways for internationally educated doctors, including through the practice-ready assessment program, which we are tripling. That’s very important for people, in particular in rural and remote communities in B.C., going from 32 to 41 to 96. And we’re on target for each of those increases in the practice-ready assessment program, which makes a significant difference in communities such as Merritt, for example, but many others across British Columbia.

We also set targets for patient visits and billing. What we’re doing is going, in the next couple of years, from 27 million to 32 million visits. That’s significantly tracked, and we track that against our results in the system.

The short answer is we do exactly what we’re doing. I know the member seems frustrated by the data. We never had this data before. Previous governments chose not to seek this data. We’ve got this data now. Because 4,500 doctors and nurse practitioners have uploaded their patient panels for the first time ever, we know about the possibility of addressing the attachment gap with our growing number of doctors and nurse practitioners.

To meet these targets and meet our targets, the demand, we have to continue to do what we did this year in an unprecedented way, which is work with doctors and nurse practitioners in B.C. to get more doctors. We’ve done that. And to get more nurse practitioners — we’ve done that, and we’ve done that in a record way — and to continue to have them serve our health care system.

Doctors, in general, in B.C., unless they are direct employees, which in some cases they are, are health care professionals. They’re not FTEs. They often serve in our emergency rooms. They serve in other facilities and circumstances, as well as their family practices. This is the case.

Yesterday we provided, again, detailed information about the average attachment of doctors, which was 1,100 in B.C. That’s the average attachment, which tells us, for planning purposes, what we need to do.

So all of this information has been provided, and while the member, I know, doesn’t think it’s enough, it’s more than has ever been provided before. We’ve done that because of the deliberate actions we’ve taken to provide more information to patients, more information to health care professionals, more information to this House and more information to the people of B.C.

S. Bond: It’s not about frustration with the data. It’s frustration with the narrative that has British Columbians believing that we have 708 net new doctors, and one would assume that if they had a full panel of patients….

[11:40 a.m.]

I can do the math. So 708 times 1,150 is 814,200 new attached patients. That is not the number the minister is talking about.

Clearly there is data, there are new physicians, but they are not practising full-time or with a full patient panel. That’s the frustration. It is about the narrative that gives people hope that they are going to have a family physician.

The minister has not been able to tell me where they are or what health service delivery area they’re in. Yes, we can go through the health authorities, but he has been unable to tell me, of the numbers in a specific health authority, how many of them are full-time, how many of them are part-time, how many of them are practising one day a week. All of that matters to British Columbians. That’s the reason for asking the ongoing set of questions.

Surely to goodness, the minister can cross-reference the data. I know he wants to talk about 4,000-plus doctors. I am talking about the subset of 708 that have been characterized as net new. British Columbians would like to know where they are. Are they working full-time?

Let’s move to this question. I tried this yesterday as well. Where did they come from? Not the 4,500 or whatever the number the minister uses. Of the subset of highly touted 708 net new doctors, where did they come from? The minister knows that physicians across this province and others are saying some of them came from hospitals. They were hospitalists. Some of them came from long-term care. We have heard concerns about that.

It is fine to talk about new, practising physicians in family practice. What about the other parts of the system? Let’s try that question again: of the 700 new family doctors, not the 4,000 plus, how many previously practised as hospitalists?

Hon. A. Dix: The member talks about 4,000. It’s 5,054, which is an all-time record, by a mile, in the number of people practising longitudinal family practice. The detail of information…. We went through this yesterday. I responded yesterday in detail how many of those net new doctors were new to MSP.

So again…. Sorry?

Interjection.

Hon. A. Dix: Well, the 700 are not individuals. It’s net new. That’s how many more doctors we have this year than last year doing longitudinal family practice.

We can argue with that number. You can say that’s not enough. It’s an all-time record, but we can say that it’s not enough. It’s a 16 percent increase over one year, which you can say is not enough. But it is, I think, by the Doctors of B.C. in particular.

If the member heard our press conference this morning…. She talks about hearing from doctors. She can hear from the president of the Doctors of B.C., who talked about the pride doctors take in the care that’s provided in our province, and the work that we are doing together, which is, I think, unprecedented.

We have providers across the province. And 828 providers of the 4,500 have uploaded patient lists — this is the important thing for patients; where is there space for patients — and have spaces for a maximum available of 166,323. That’s the number. Of course, we define that not by health service delivery area but primary care network, which is the way we organize our primary care system in B.C., with the 1,800 net new FTEs that are working in the health care system through primary care networks in the province.

By providers, we have, in communities across B.C., access…. In every single one of those primary care networks, we have access to available requests. We have to continue to do that process.

What we did today, which matters for patients, is speed up that process of not just the hundreds of thousands that have joined new-to-practice contracts, not just the 67,000 who have joined from Health Match B.C. but the remaining 300,000 who have expressed the need, want, desire for a family doctor…. We have specifically made that easier. That’s the work that we’re doing.

[11:45 a.m.]

All this information is new information, and happy to provide that. The team that I introduced in the House earlier does an exceptional job of improving the situation for patients, which is what I’m most concerned with.

S. Bond: Did any of the net new doctors come from working as hospitalists?

Hon. A. Dix: Many family doctors work as hospitalists and vice versa. In fact, most hospitalists are trained family doctors. When you are talking about longitudinal family practice, it is true that many young doctors didn’t see their future in longitudinal family practice.

How did we respond? With new-to-practice contracts, 240 doctors working under new-to-practice contracts attaching patients. They will continue to attach patients as they build out the first two years of their practice. So yes, many family doctors work as hospitalists. Many hospitalists work as longitudinal family practice. That is the way our health care system — doesn’t just work today, but — has worked in the past.

I went through the numbers with the hon. member, yesterday, in terms of these things. This isn’t hospitalists, but these were the detailed numbers of registrants to the LFP registration model, which is 4,096 of the more than 5,000 longitudinal family practice doctors who are currently billing for longitudinal family practice. And 3,010 of them have been previous longitudinal physicians; 313 had worked as locums; 239 were previously non-longitudinal; and 534 were new to MSP.

In just that group of LFP registrants, that gives a detailed understanding of the effectiveness of this LFP model that we developed with the Doctors of B.C. And we heard the president of the Doctors of B.C. He’s a doctor at St. Paul’s. He’s a surgeon, but he’s representing all of the doctors in B.C. He echoed that this morning.

S. Bond: Let’s listen to what a front-line doctor says. Because the minister fails to answer the specific question and then tries to talk about hospitalists and how they do both jobs. That wasn’t the question, and I do understand how the health care system works.

Let’s listen to what a front-line physician said: “This messaging that there are 700 new family doctors is just not true, not even close. Family doctors have moved to a new payment model to practise family medicine, but they’ve come from hospital work, walk-in clinics, etc.”

A second quote: “It’s great we have more family doctors practising what we consider a traditional type practice role, but don’t mislead the public. We’ve shuffled the deck chairs.”

Those are from doctors on the ground.

What I simply am asking the minister to acknowledge is that these 700 net new doctors came from somewhere, and some of them came from hospital work, from clinics. The point is that that means there are gaps being created in other areas of work in the health care system. It is as simple as that. They came from somewhere, and some of them, the minister has to acknowledge, came from other areas of work in the health care system. How hard is it to acknowledge that?

Hon. A. Dix: I just answered this question in detail for the hon. member.

I would say this about the question. When you go from 4,200 to 4,900, or close to 4,300 to 5,000, which is what we did, close to 5,000, 4,996, that’s net new. That’s apples to apples. That’s good news for people.

We just answered in detail the question of where they came from. The vast majority of the new LFP residents who are incremental to work before, were new to MSP. That’s good news. New to MSP: 534. That’s a detailed answer to the member’s question.

[11:50 a.m.]

Now the member might not like that answer. I don’t know why she wouldn’t like that answer. That is undeniably good news. Does it solve all of the problems in our health care system? No, it does not. This issue of attachment to a family doctor is a central issue for people in communities — the people I talk to in communities, the doctors I talk to, the nurse practitioners.

That’s why primary care networks, urgent and primary care centres, a new LFP payment model, more spaces in medical schools, more support for new-to-practice doctors and a record number of new-to-practice doctors work­ing in longitudinal family practice is all positive news. The detailed information was what I just provided the hon. member. She may not like the answer to the question, but the answer has been provided, in detail, on this very question.

S. Bond: Increasing numbers and moving people from other parts of the system adds stress elsewhere. That’s a simple fact.

I can’t imagine that the Health Minister is sitting in his chair telling me and British Columbians and front-line physicians that some of those doctors, probably a lot of those doctors, came from somewhere else in the system. Those gaps aren’t filled. Those are front-line doctors telling us that increasing numbers, just moving people around, puts stress on different parts of the system.

Will the minister at least acknowledge that?

Hon. A. Dix: We gave the detailed numbers here. We gave the detailed numbers on registrants to the new program: 534 new to MSP. How many new physician registrants in B.C. in all categories? It’s 938. That’s more doctors. That’s a record number. It’s the largest increase we’ve ever seen.

If the debate is if that has resolved all of the problems, it certainly hasn’t. I’d agree with that. That’s why we’re in­creasing the spaces at UBC medical school. That’s why we’re establishing a new SFU medical school. That’s why we’re increasing access to international medical graduates. That’s why we’re expanding the scope of practice of health professionals such as physician assistants, who we’ll be seeing shortly, such as nurse practitioners, such as pharmacists. That’s why we’re doing those things — to improve those very conditions because we have to recruit everywhere.

Yesterday we talked about other categories and work which is largely done by family doctors in, for example, long-term care. A family doctor will spend X number of time in…. We worked on those questions through stabilization funds and directly with doctors in British Columbia in order to come up with similar solutions that have been so successful in primary care.

This is just the addition of net new doctors, more new doctors, new physicians in every category, more specialist doctors, more primary care doctors. This is all the result of the work I think done, yes, by the government, but also by community members and by the Doctors of B.C., the nurses and nurse practitioners in B.C., the health care unions. All of them have been working hard to address this because they know we need to continue to recruit people.

The member talks about the number of new people in British Columbia. That’s a statistic that I’ve been using for months to note the significant challenge we face. British Columbia has had a very highly performing economy in recent years. A federal government that’s made a series of decisions about issues such as immigration and others has led to a lot of people coming to B.C. Since I’ve become Minister of Health, from the province of Alberta, net 36,000 people, disproportionately seniors.

Yes, we have to continue to do better. We did way better this year, 16 percent. We need to do again better next year and again better the year after that and for the ten years following that. That’s why we’ve made these structural changes in the system to make things better for patients.

S. Bond: I would remind the minister…. I won’t get started on the list that he articulated in the chamber. Let’s just pick one of those examples, a promissory medical school. When the minister first talked about that, they were going to be graduating students by now. Right now, there isn’t even a hole in the ground, and there’s not a line in the budget. So let’s not use that as an example of success.

Clearly, the minister knows that those physicians came from somewhere. Apparently he’s not prepared to admit that they came from, potentially, hospital work, clinic work. But doctors on the ground know that.

I’ll leave it there, and I will pick up my line of inquiry this afternoon.

[11:55 a.m.]

Hon. A. Dix: I specifically said, on the LFP model, be­cause specific questions were asked, that 534 of those were new to MSP of the longitudinal family physician model. I mean, it’s not refusing to answer. It’s answering, and it is great news. It may not suit the political purposes of other people for it to be great news, but it’s great news. It’s great news.

That doesn’t mean, and I agree with the member, that all the issues are solved. That’s why we’re pursuing things such as the SFU medical school, which had been rejected by the previous government. We’re proceeding with.

With that, I move the committee rise and report progress and ask to leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:56 a.m.

The House resumed; the Speaker in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Committee of the Whole (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Hon. A. Dix moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.


PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of the Whole House

BILL 17 — POLICE AMENDMENT ACT, 2024

(continued)

The House in Committee of the Whole (Section A) on Bill 17; R. Leonard in the chair.

The committee met at 11:31 a.m.

The Chair: Good morning, Members. I call Committee of the Whole on Bill 17, Police Amendment Act, 2024, to order.

On clause 1 (continued).

A. Olsen: Last night just before we adjourned, the minister talked about how, essentially, reform and modernization were, in his eyes, one and the same project.

The committee report heard time and again, repeatedly, from the hundreds of people that consulted us or that we consulted with directly what their expectation was. Their hope for the process that the minister set up was transformation. We could go back to the transcripts and count the number of times “transformation” or “transformative change” was raised. It would be many. That was the hope, transformative change.

If, indeed, modernization and reform are the same in the eyes of the minister, why, then, change the language from “reform,” which was the message that was sent to the public when the all-party committee was struck, reforming the Police Act, to “modernization”? What would be the utility of changing the language if, in fact, the goal is the same?

Hon. M. Farnworth: However you want to choose — if you think it should have been reforming the Police Act, modernizing the Police Act, transforming the Police Act — the reality is this. The Police Act is modernizing. It is transforming. It is reforming. It is all of those things. It could have just as easily used transformation, transforming policing in British Columbia as the title of the act. The fact is….

The title is the title. What is important is the substance in the act. Much of the substance in the act is formed by the work of the committee in 2019 and 2022 and the people that made presentations to it both back then and in 2022 and people outside as well. It’s all of those things, hon. Member.

A. Olsen: Where does the public engage the minister’s new rounds of consultation in his police modernization process?

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. M. Farnworth: I appreciate the question from the member. I’ll approach it in two parts.

First, there is the consultation going on, on a regional basis, with First Nations right across the province. The second has been the funding for community organizations to be able to do engagement with not just their members but the constituents and the public that they represent, and there’s a significant number of them.

There are provincial regional organizations such as the African Women Empowerment Society, the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, the British Columbia Community Alliance, the Canada Committee 100 Society, the Canadian Mental Health Association of northern B.C., Great Light Healing Community Services Society, John Howard Society of British Columbia, Living and Community Society, the Public Health Association of B.C., the Progressive Intercultural Community Services Society, the South Asian Legal Clinic of B.C., the Stop Anti-Asian Hate Crimes Advocacy Group Association of Canada, the Support Network for Indigenous Women and Women of Colour, Unlocking the Gates Services Society, the Vancouver International Bhangra Celebration Society, Whitecrow Village FASD Society.

In terms of local organizations, it includes the 411 Seniors Centre Society; the Abbotsford Restorative Justice and Advocacy Association; African Art and Culture Incorporated; African Descent Society; Bangladesh Canada Cultural Association in Victoria; the Canadian Mental Health Association, Vernon and district; the Coastal Research, Education, and Advocacy Network; the Eastside Community Action Project Society; the Low Entropy Foundation; the Multilingual Orientation Service Association for Immigrant Communities; the Northern Society for Domestic Peace; the Catholic Justice Services Society; the South Vancouver Neighbourhood House; the Sqwem-Sqwem Consulting Services Society, Third Bridge Foundation; Victoria Immigrant and Refugee Centre Society.

Additional organizations providing services and advocacy for Indigenous peoples living in urban areas include the Native Courtworker and Counselling Association of British Columbia, the Justice Education Society of British Columbia, the Nawican Friendship Centre, Dze L’Kant Friendship Centre Society and the First Nations Education Foundation.

All of those have received funding for them to be able to do the kind of community outreach, the kind of work that the member has in fact just been talking about.

A. Olsen: Can the minister describe, for each of the organizations that are engaged, what that process, that engagement looks like?

I recognize he just named a large number of organizations, but how can the public expect those organizations to connect with them? Is it just their members? Is it with the broader public? What are the expectations from the funding that the ministry has of those organizations? How are we to ensure that they’re delivering a consistent consultation with their members and with the broader public?

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. M. Farnworth: When yesterday we talked about the different discussion papers, they would have received all those, and they talk to their members and the communities that they serve.

A. Olsen: Is there any standard format for talking with the members, as the minister describes it?

Hon. M. Farnworth: The organizations communicate with their members in the way that they know best. They don’t need the province coming in and saying: “You will communicate this way.” Each organization serves distinct communities, and they know best how to talk to their members and the people in their own communities.

A. Olsen: Interesting. When this government and previous governments gave Indigenous communities funds — for forestry, as an example — it was very prescriptive how the money was to be spent, where it was to be spent, the reporting that was to happen for those funds. Yet for this consultation, nobody needs government telling them what to do.

Maybe we could apply those principles to when the government is relating to First Nations. But anyway, different consultation, I guess.

Is there going to be a public record of the engagement?

Hon. M. Farnworth: Yes.

A. Olsen: In what form is the content that’s going to be collected…? A variety of different ways, I guess. We don’t need to tell them how to do it. But in what form is that information going to be gathered and disseminated for the public to be able to review and see what the information is that has been collected?

Hon. M. Farnworth: It’ll come in the form of a what-we-heard report that we’ll be be dealing with with phase 2. And then today we’re dealing with phase 1, in terms of the amendments that are before us.

A. Olsen: I’m assuming that this was the same process that was used that…. The minister has described this as what will be informing phase 2. I’m assuming that this was the same process that was used to determine….

I guess I’m somewhat confused, because the minister first talked about these processes. They handed out the discussion papers and the information they got back. So is the consultation process that was used in phase 1 the same as what’s going to be used in phase 2? Have they changed?

Hon. M. Farnworth: Yesterday we talked about phase 1. We talked about the consultation that had gone on, and I indicated in phase 2 that…. So we are getting…. They’re similar, in terms of getting the what-we-heard back, but there’s also much deeper consultation and co-development that will be taking place in phase 2 that is different from phase 1.

With that, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:45 a.m.


PROCEEDINGS IN THE
BIRCH ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF SOCIAL
DEVELOPMENT AND POVERTY REDUCTION

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section C); D. Routley in the chair.

The committee met at 11:30 a.m.

The Chair: Good morning, Members. I call Committee of Supply, Section C, to order. We are meeting today to consider the budget estimates of the Ministry of Social Development and Poverty Reduction.

On Vote 43: ministry operations, $5,175,972,000 (continued).

The Chair: Do you have any opening remarks? I’m not sure where we are.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Made already, so we’ll turn right to my critic.

D. Davies: Since we’ve not very much time here before we break for lunch, I’ve got a couple of outlier questions not mainly tied in.

This one I did canvass also last year. I’ve been in touch recently with the B.C. Funeral Association. It basically goes back to literally the same question as last year. The basic professional service fee that the government offers falls greatly short of what is required for funeral homes to provide a basic service for our vulnerable population that have succumbed to whatever.

What we’re seeing is that many of these funeral homes, of course, are having to literally pay for this out of their pocket. It’s even worse when you get into more rural areas. I spoke to our local funeral home in Fort St. John. They actually look after Fort Nelson, so you’re talking a significant additional burden if someone in Fort Nelson dies and cannot afford to have a funeral. They’re out even more. Yes, their mileage is covered and all those things, but now you’re staying overnight in a hotel.

For some of these funerals, the funding that is covered by the government falls much, much shorter than what is required. Again, I did canvass this question last year. I understand there has been no bump as of yet. I’m just wondering if there are any plans to increase this amount.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: The member is right. No increase in rates in this year’s budget.

My team has met with the B.C. Funeral Association, and I will be meeting with them again in the coming weeks. They have been very willing to work together with us on options, which we really appreciate. We are exploring what we can do right now. We also are exploring federal responsibilities when it comes to the federal death benefits that some clients qualify for. We are looking forward to doing this work together over the coming weeks and months.

[11:35 a.m.]

D. Davies: Again, maybe, to tighten up on exploring options and working on this, over the next weeks and months, I’m just wondering if that is kind of a timeline that we can look to, to have some sort of a response over the next, let’s say, couple of months from now.

Of course, I’m very sure you’re aware that 2008 was when the fees were last adjusted. Everyone can understand how much things have increased in costs in the last 16 years, and they’re still doing it for the same fees. Is there a bit of a timeline that we could maybe see some response on this from the government?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I think I’ve told the member as much as I can about timelines that we are working on. I’m certainly happy to keep him posted personally when we do have some news on this.

Let me say, just big picture — and I know that the member knows this — the commitment of the government is that all families be able to properly mourn and honour the lives of loved ones who have passed away. If anybody can’t afford it, whether or not they are an income assistance client or a client of my ministry, our ministry assists families by paying for the necessary funeral costs. That can be cremation or burial, the services of the funeral home, a small service.

We just want to make sure that people do reach out and ask for help, and we’re really grateful to the funeral providers, both inside the association and outside, across the province, who do help people in this, really, most very sad time. We don’t want anybody to be left out, and we’re working with funeral providers to make sure that they can continue to offer the service, at a time where global inflation has had such an impact on costs.

D. Davies: I appreciate that, and I do look forward to being updated on anything that does transpire out of this conversation here.

Very briefly, yesterday, I think, the minister alluded to the devastating fire seasons from last year. Obviously, they have an impact on everybody, from all the population. I’m just wondering what the Social Development and Poverty Reduction Ministry is doing to prepare for another suspected horrific fire season that could very well fall upon B.C. any day now. It was approximately one year ago that the fire started up in my region, and it pretty much burned all summer.

I’m just wondering if the ministry can give a bit of an update, for the folks that are watching this, on things that are being done.

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Our ministry has an emergency planning team activated to mitigate emergency issues that impact service delivery.

Really, the most key responsibility we have is that clients of my ministry who are reliant on income supports not have any interruption in their access to regular monthly supports and their access to apply for emergency benefits around extra need for housing or supplements that would allow them to get emergency food access. That continuity of service delivery is the most important thing. That’s what we really focus on.

If the member has any stories from last summer about where things didn’t go well, I’m really eager to learn from them because we were really pleased, at an extremely difficult time for the province, at how well our systems worked. But of course, we’re always concerned that nobody be left behind. I really welcome any feedback about what didn’t go well.

We are experienced, as a ministry, with adjusting our regular processes during emergencies like wildfire, floods, extreme heat. There sometimes are challenges like Canada Post delays during weather events. So we use different mechanisms to make sure clients receive their monthly cheques on time.

We work with communities to coordinate resources for clients to access as needed during any emergency event. We have our own ministry emergency website and activation. We also have our fantastic community integration specialist outreach teams that are on the ground and do particularly focused work with us in the areas that are hit by wildfires, for example. Those are separate but integrated processes and teams.

We also talked a little bit yesterday about funding that we distributed through Food Banks B.C. about lessons learned on emergency food delivery, interruption of food banks and others during times of wildfire response. That’s something, we’re making sure, that we are ready to activate in fire-affected zones.

I’m also told that just last week, I think it was, my team was working at a multi-ministry level about how to support vulnerable people during times of crisis. In addition to the work we’re doing to make sure that clients get the income supports that they are reliant on, we’re also advocating cross-government to make sure that the needs of vulnerable people are kept in mind across government.

D. Davies: I appreciate that. I did talk about wildfires, but obviously, it’s much, much more than that — heat waves, floods and everything else that go along with it.

A suggestion, as well: there are great opportunities to engage with constituency offices, maybe sending out some best practices on how constituency offices can direct people in the event of these emergencies. Often people do come to our COs. That’s their first point of contact when they don’t know where to go. If there is anything being prepared, as part of how to support clients and such, that might be a good avenue to send that out to.

Speaking of supporting, I’m very sure the minister is aware about supporting non-profits across British Columbia. We recently met with Vantage. I think that they met with the ministry staff as well.

I think we, as MLAs, tend to belong to non-profits — or have belonged, certainly, in the past. We hear this across the sector; it doesn’t matter what the group is. Certainly, the ones that are providing social services…. In these past few years, we’ve really come to lean a lot more on the non-profit sector to support people in need.

[11:45 a.m.]

Obviously, money is an issue. There seems to be a big gap in what government often is providing the not-for-profit sector to deliver services, but there are also huge concerns about the burnout factor that we’re seeing.

I’ve sat on a number of non-profits. I’ll go to one meeting and finish it up. I’ll go to the next meeting, and it’s pretty much the same group of people that are participating in these not-for-profit groups. It is little wonder that folks are getting burned-out, because they are engaging on multiple not-for-profits. Volunteerism is a very serious thing in all our communities across British Columbia.

My question for the minister, and that’s probably it before lunch, would be: how is the ministry supporting the not-for-profit sector across British Columbia, not only financially, to make sure that those ends are met?

I know that Children and Families would have not-for-profit groups, and other ministries would. But how are you supporting them financially? How are you supporting personnel? Is there a drive of some sort to be promoting volunteerism? What are things that the ministry is doing to support these not-for-profits?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: In my opening comments, I talked about the work of my Parliamentary Secretary for Non-profits, the member for Langley East, leading in this file — and the Attorney General in her former role. Also, this is, I think, the first in Canada that there has been a parliamentary secretary particularly focused on support for not-for-profits — for reasons that the member cites.

Of course, all our ministries across government are highly reliant on the services that they develop. We heard very clearly that multi-year funding and, in some cases, trust-based granting was extremely important.

Last year we allocated over $160 million in grants to not-for-profit organizations to address key community issues that they had identified. We funded $60 million that we asked the Vancouver Foundation to distribute on our behalf. That was called the stronger community services fund, which built on the previous year’s $30 million recovery and resiliency fund.

[11:50 a.m.]

We talked yesterday about the funding that we gave to not-for-profits for food security specifically, so I won’t repeat that, but I will flag $5 million allocated to the Rick Hansen Foundation to support a range of accessibility projects.

The member mentioned Vantage Point. We had a not-for-profit day with them. It was really good to have lunch with them and all the members from the not-for-profit sector. The Premier and I met with them, along with the parliamentary secretary for not-for-profits, the member for Langley East.

Vantage Point. We funded $650,000 for them to develop a not-for-profit network in British Columbia so that we can see a rising issue, have that direct point of contact. Extremely grateful to them for that organizational work.

We also have a number of these not-for-profits sitting on my poverty reduction advisory committee, also very helpful. We also work, through my ministry, with a group that we have gathered called the Social Services Sector Roundtable to speak specifically to the issues of burnout capacity, the strength of the not-for-profit sector. Again, these are not-for-profits that are delivering services across all of British Columbia.

Last year we provided $2.79 billion to the B.C. not-for-profit sector from the B.C. government on service delivery across the board. But we work…. Housed within my ministry, the round table has resulted in a lot of accomplishments since we formed it in 2019. It works with us to find ways of evolving communication, collaboration, action to support ways to work together across the sector. We’ve been granting them directly for recruitment and retention projects for sector training, occupational health and safety, IT and virtual services and research.

A real focus on reconciliation, because we heard that from the sector. They want to engage in reconciliation. They don’t always have as much capacity as they’d like. So we’ve got the community pathways to reconciliation initiative. We work with the Social Services Sector Roundtable, a new Indigenous MBA program and sponsorships for Indigenous youth.

We also have, through the round table, provision of support and information on many other topics that are important to the sector. Especially during the pandemic, we relied on them in a particularly focused way. We are working with them and the Association of Service Providers and Career Training for social sector leadership development. We’ll have news on that soon that I’m also happy to share with the member.

Then the final thing I want to say is just in response to the member’s opening comment about working with constituency offices during times of emergency. That is something that we did last summer. Whenever I got reports about numbers of clients in affected areas, that same information was delivered to constituency offices.

We’re thinking that we won’t necessarily do that information transfer about responses in advance, because we really can’t anticipate what’s happening on the ground until we are facing the situation. But I absolutely agree that that’s a key link. I would do outreach directly with the MLAs in affected areas, as well, and make sure that they have the support that they need.

With that, Mr. Chair, do you want me to move the motion?

The Chair: Yes, please.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:53 a.m.