Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: I call continued second reading debate, Bill 4, Skilled Trades BC Act.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 4 — SKILLED TRADES BC ACT

(continued)

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Members. We are about to proceed with the second reading continuation. So if you have other conversations, feel free to have them elsewhere so we can listen to the other members share their points of view.

Interjection.

B. Stewart: Good morning. I don’t know what the Minister of Health is thinking I’m going to speak about. I want to speak about Bill 4, which I know is…. There are skills required in health. Don’t get me wrong. I’m thrilled that we are doing so much here in British Columbia. That’s actually what I wanted to really talk about.

Of course, yesterday when I was speaking about this, I was talking about the fact that there is this skills shortage and the fact that with this type of regulation change, in terms of apprenticeship…. We, obviously, are very concerned about the lack of spaces that either don’t exist around the province for certain trades or the fact that there is no expansion contemplated or mentioned here. Of course, we may see changes in that.

I do want to just follow up on some of the people I’ve known in life — besides my career as just a backyard farm welder and repairman of all sorts of shapes and sizes, without any apprenticeship.

[11:00 a.m.]

I think of a couple of people, who are journeymen, in my life: Nick Lang, who is a mason, as well as Zeljko Bizecki, who came from Zagreb. He is a master craftsman. If you happen to visit the winery that I’m associated with, they have stonework that has been crafted by this fella. I don’t know where Jerry learned his trade, but I can tell you that he is able to put rocks together, see things that nobody else can do. There’s use of a ton of fieldstone that came out of the fields right around the old Allison homestead and the new shop.

I think about what that takes to learn. How do you actually teach that in school and do that? I think the apprenticeship is certainly something that is extremely valuable.

Stonemasons or bricklayers and concrete finishers — there’s only one school in British Columbia for those people. That’s not very helpful if you want to do something with brick and block, etc., in any other part of the prov­ince. The fact is that there should be some other training for those types of people.

The fact that we’re increasing the regulations around the oversight of job sites, etc., just to make certain…. Does that mean that people that are currently working in the Interior would have to return to this single school to be able to pick up and be, essentially, red seal certified? I mean, I’m sure that Jerry Bizecki, for instance, or Nick Lang are probably more than qualified, even over the instructor, to be able to do the job of making certain that they can put stonework together, build fireplaces and things like that. Frankly, I’m a little bit surprised that there hasn’t been more stated by the minister, or even the Minister of Education — the fact that we’re going to come together on this.

I go to the Minister of Education. I know, when we did our jobs plan…. I mentioned the former Minister of Jobs — and Advanced Education Minister. When she did her jobs plan in the early 2013-2014 period, the jobs plan specifically looked at trades and people that are in those specific trades and where the shortages were. We increased the spaces in Prince George and the Okanagan in some of those places, but we still need to do more. The situation is….

The real bottleneck appears to be in the fact that the attraction to going into the trades is not something that is seen as glamourous yet. I can honestly remember being at a life skills kind of graduation with the senior school at Mount Boucherie Secondary. One of the people that I had a chance to meet…. His family was in the logging business. He was graduating, but the day he graduated, he was going out into the field to work with his family, running equipment, harvesting and doing those types of things. I’m thinking: he had the opportunity because of his family. You need to know somebody special.

What we really do need is people that are in those schools to make certain that people that maybe are not going to be scientists or people that bring all sorts of great things to our lives…. They have other skills, and they’re able to put and see these things, etc. We need to do a superior job in the education system to make certain that people understand that. What do we do in schools to help excite people about that? Do we bring people in to show them how they can build things and put them together? That’s something that I think we should be talking about with this type of legislation.

As I mentioned yesterday, the jobs of apprenticeship is something that the independent contractors in British Columbia, several of them, have done a superior job in trying to regulate and put that all on to the backs of certain organized labour, where they have a part in it too. The situation is that it takes everybody to help fill the skills. I know the plan that’s coming out in a few minutes here, talking about the economic recovery, is going to require skilled people. The situation is that we have to directly address that.

Mr. Speaker, I know that there’s lots that has been said about this, and I look forward to further debate on Bill 4 as it comes to third reading. I thank you very much for allowing me to finish up.

H. Yao: I want to first take a moment to express my support for Bill 4. Before I continue, I would like to address a little elephant I have seen, during the debate yesterday, in regard to Bill 4.

[11:05 a.m.]

I just want to take a moment to say thank you to some of the members from both the opposition and also on the government side. For example, I would like to thank Kelowna-Mission for her artistic delivery of her speech. I want to thank the Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport for her fiery, passionate speech. I also want to take a moment to thank Vancouver–False Creek for her calm demeanour.

I want to thank every member in here who represents a constituency — whether it’s based on gender, ethnicity, language barriers, culture or even just a language skill set — for defending and fighting for your constituents. I do want to emphasize that all of us are here to support constituents, and we’re here to talk about facts, information and what we can do to better our constituents.

As I move forward, I would like to first talk about the importance of this mandatory skilled-trades certificate. I heard a different sort of argument explicitly talking about a lack of space, lack of spots, lack of seats in the schools. It helped me reflect that in 2003, the requirement for a skilled-trades certificate was eliminated. I think that sort of paved the way to allow the industry not to focus on the importance of continually cultivating the importance of skilled-trade individuals to have standardized performance, to have standardized training and to have a healthy and strong certification program to provide good-paying jobs for individuals who are involved in the trade sector.

Our government, through this process, demonstrated one thing. It demonstrated our principle that we are here to invest. I know different governments have a different principle base, but our B.C. NDP government continues its focus that British Columbians are our biggest asset and our greatest asset when it comes to economic growth and success.

That is the reason why we are putting so much effort into how we can strengthen British Columbia by creating better-paying jobs, jobs that will help them raise their family, jobs that will help us increase the ability to afford to live in British Columbia.

We just talked about an earlier labour market report. About one million jobs are going to be available, and 85,000 will be trades-based. We need to be prepared for that.

If you don’t mind, I’ll take a moment to really reflect on what COVID-19 has done to us. It has shown us the importance of investing in health care, the importance of also investing in education. We have a shortage of nurses and doctors right now, and we’re struggling with it. But it doesn’t mean we’re going to remove our certification program so that anybody who has a first-aid certificate can go and become a doctor.

We are training everybody, because British Columbians deserve proper, sufficient and appropriate services. That is the reason why I’m such a big believer in defending that we continuously find ways to invest for tomorrow by investing in British Columbians.

Bill 4 is definitely a perfect example of how we’re looking at a future one million jobs and 85,000 trade jobs, and we’re going to create a standard, a proper preparation so individuals who enter the workforce will be ready to enter the workforce properly. They’ll have the proper training. They’ll have the proper standardization.

It is understandable that to many, it could be perceived as a challenge and a barrier. But in my opinion, it is actually helping us to increase not just the prestige but the standardization of our trade service providers. I think they should have the proper training.

A few other things I do want to reflect on. First things first, we’ll talk about additional apprenticeship advisers. I personally came from a background of a career practitioner. One thing I’ve learned is it is hard navigating through different options, different challenges and different requirements going through careers. By having individuals with experience who have the proper training to guide you through the process, we are reducing unnecessary time wasted. We’re increasing proper accessibility. We’re allowing individuals who have a passion for a trade to be able to say, “This is where I want to go,” and have someone to say: “I’m ready to take you there.”

I’m so glad that in Bill 4, we’re talking about the importance of increasing apprenticeship advisers, because we need to provide that guidance. I know many young individuals. I used to be a youth worker. They are individuals who are talented. They are smart, they’re gifted, they are resourceful, and they’re able to do a lot of research on their own. But there’s nothing that can replace a good work experience individual who knows what they’re doing.

That’s the reason why I really enjoy this journeyman-and-apprenticeship ratio that is happening too, to make sure people have the proper attention being given to them so they’re not just getting lukewarm training. They’re getting top-notch training to prepare them for the career of their choice.

I also want to say kudos to the Minister of Advanced Education and Skills Training — that we’re going to find a way to increase participation for women, Indigenous people and underrepresented groups in the trades.

[11:10 a.m.]

One million jobs are going to be coming. We’re going to try to ensure that we’re going to fill them as quickly and as appropriately as we can. But we cannot compromise our standards. We must ensure everybody who enters the field is ready to do the work and has similar standards so that they can be transferable from one employer to another employer.

Our goal here is really to say that we are here to support our British Columbians, making sure that they have something that can be utilized — similar to a high school graduation certificate, similar to a bachelor’s degree — and that’s recognizable, universally, among employers. We’re also going to be providing opportunities for 75,000 high school students to discover, explore, train and work in the trades.

I remember when I used to be a high school student. It’s unfortunate — and I’ll be perfectly honest — that my family discouraged me from getting involved in trades. Many people have the false perception that the trades are really for individuals who don’t really have anywhere else to go. But when I graduated from university, I started doing various jobs. I saw my fellow colleagues who were electricians, who were carpenters or who were plumbers and who were succeeding in their careers, and I could not but envy them. I almost wanted to say: “Those are professionals.” We should not be creating certain kinds of classes but really be finding different ways to raise them up through post-secondary education.

By standardizing and having mandatory skilled trades certificates, we are allowing individuals to actually have the proper training standards to be able to enter into the field and be accepted by employers. Employers can have a sense of comfort, knowing that no matter where the individual comes from, their certification will provide a basic, standard, training skill set that ensures that they’re sufficient to do the work.

We also all understand that the trades — unfortunately, at this moment — are pretty dominated by young male British Columbians. This also, as published and according to WorkSafeBC, has the highest injuries at worksites. Proper training of utilizing equipment, proper training on how to work with their colleagues and proper training on utilizing their skill sets will ensure that an individual will be able to go to work with excitement and return home safely, and ensures that we will reduce unnecessary tragedies that break our families and reduce a person’s chance to pursue a passion in their vocation.

I do want to say that throughout this whole process, when I’m looking at all of this, we continuously return back to square one. The B.C. NDP government is placing British Columbians as our priority as we invest in British Columbians. The skilled trades set alone is allowing us to ensure, in the different fields, that we’re laying the foundation for our future investments. I understand that next year’s budget is coming out pretty quickly, and I know that our Minister of Finance’s lovely presentation is ready to come out.

I think the key fact is that we’ll continue to demonstrate to British Columbians and build for just one piece of a continuation of how we will bring the skilled trades sector up to date. We will be matching the other provincial governments in Canada to ensure that individuals who are working British Columbians will be ready to take on opportunities. In the next ten years, over one million jobs are going to become available, with 85,000 jobs in the trades sectors.

We’re here to fight for our British Columbians. We’re laying a step-by-step foundation. I understand many opposition members might say: “We would love to see everything comprehensively prepped right away.” We understand. Everybody has a similar preference. We would love to see that everything is ready to go.

That’s why our ministers are all working hard with the Minister of Finance to ensure that we continue to come up with different steps to ensure that Bill 4 will be the lovely starting point to making sure that we have mandatory certification for skilled trades and to ensure that we continue moving forward. We will continue finding ways to encourage industry sectors — additionally, post-secondaries — to create more seats to accommodate them, to find different ways to making sure that our British Columbians, wherever they are in the province, are able to conveniently and effectively pick up a skilled trade of their choice and serve their community and serve a sector according to their preference.

Without much else to say, I want to take a moment to thank the hon. Speaker for allowing me to speak, and I thank all the members in this House for sharing their views and defending constituents. I will end my speech here.

Deputy Speaker: Recognizing the member for Peace River South. [Applause.]

[11:15 a.m.]

M. Bernier: I appreciate that. Thank you for the enthusiasm. I appreciate the Minister of Health also jumping in on that one again. I feel like it’s not just other members that get the applause from him. So thank you.

It’s really interesting getting up to speak about Bill 4. I won’t take a lot of time, but I do want to highlight a few things first of all, not only from a personal, local level but also my provincial understanding of this as well. Even in my former life as the Minister of Education…. I was very fortunate to have that role for a while and some of the things I saw and learned as I travelled around the province.

I don’t know if this is the case or not; people can correct me if I’m wrong. I’m probably one of the only members in this House that is actually a tradesperson. I actually have been a tradesperson, a licensed tradesperson for about 30 years. I hold multiple trades, everything from carpentry to gas fitting. I’ve got my A ticket. I’ve got my welding ticket. I’m very diverse, I guess, in the trades that I was fortunate enough to get involved in. But none of those, because it’s 25 or 30 years ago, are classified as red seal. Even though I have been doing a lot of this for 30 years, according to comments that I have been hearing from the members opposite, I don’t have a skill set anymore.

People in this province who have been working hard building this province for decades, according to comments I’m hearing from the NDP, didn’t do a good job because they didn’t have a red seal certification. When I’m hearing comments that you need to have a red seal in order to be accredited…. Basically, as some of the members here said, it is a prestige. The member for Langley mentioned it is a prestigious thing. It is prestigious — don’t get me wrong — but it’s not the only thing that qualifies somebody to have a skill set.

Let me give an example, a local example. We had the unfortunate situation where I had a couple of mines in my riding shut down in the last few years, about 1,000 to 1,200 people out of work. The majority of them were trained on the job when they were 19, 20 years old and worked for 25, 30, 35 years in the mine as mechanics, on the mining equipment, as heavy equipment operators. They knew how to run that mine better than anybody.

Fast-forward a couple of years later. Fortunately, a new mine opens up. But the rules have now changed. That experience and that knowledge that was able to put food on the table for decades is no longer recognized. That 55-year-old man or woman who spent 30, 35 years driving that heavy equipment around mining no longer was eligible to apply for a job because they didn’t have what this government wanted under new certification — proof, with a ticket, that they could do the work. So a 22-year-old, fresh out of school, who has never even really done the work before, never been on a mine before, was able to get the job over a 55-year-old person who has been doing it for 35 years because of changes around accreditation.

Now, I don’t want to send the message that accreditation, training, skill sets that come with the education are not important. Of course it is. We all agree in this House that we need to have the best education possible before people can go work on the jobsite to make sure they’re doing the job properly and to make sure they’re safe.

To get to a point where they’re saying to have a red seal or these tickets now discredits the people who have been working so hard and building this province is very unfortunate. We even found out yesterday…. One of the members from the NDP even used me as an example.

[11:20 a.m.]

Don’t worry. I have to go back to school. At 55 years old, I have to go back to school. I have five years now to go back to school to recertify all of my tickets to a red seal. Otherwise, I lose this certification, and I can no longer work in the trades.

How is that fair to so many people? I can see on a bridging component, but nothing is talked about there. I can see about on a go-forward basis, but nothing is really talked about there. This government is trying to make it as of now.

The member from…. Actually, I’m not going to get into that right away, because I do want to maybe finish on some of the comments.

Let me just say that, look, we all acknowledge that we’re facing a labour shortage. In the trades, specifically, in the next almost eight, ten years, they’re saying 75,000 additional tradespeople are going to be needed in this province. That’s part of the one million people that we’ve heard talked about for the labour shortage.

When we were in government, we also recognized the labour shortage issue. I’m glad that this government is recognizing and continuing on with the understanding that skills acquired and that are needed in the trades…. We need that on a go-forward basis in our province to continue keeping up with the housing supply, with our condos and apartments that are being built, our commercial properties, our road networks — you name it. We need trade skill sets for all of those.

We’re already seeing, right now, wait-lists of up to three to four years just to get into the trades. I’ve heard nothing from this government. They’re trying to pat themselves on the back that they’re changing a regulation to require a red seal, but I’ve heard nothing that says this is what we’re going to do to solve the problem of wait-lists, this is what we’re going to do to encourage more people to get into the trades, this is what we’re going to do to for communities all around British Columbia to make it accessible.

I know — this is not a dig at government, it’s a fact — there are not too many members on the NDP side that live north of Hope in rural British Columbia. Maybe they don’t understand the fact and the stresses and the challenges of somebody who lives in Fort Nelson who is told that they have to now go all the way to BCIT in Burnaby.

They are fortunate enough, because when we were in government, we did build a trades centre in Dawson Creek — very proud of that, what we did. I’m also appreciative to the now Minister of Tourism. At the time, she was the Minister of Advanced Education.

I will say I was envious and jealous of her in this, because we did all the work. We built it, and about a one-month timeline lapsed and she got to come up and cut the ribbon as the new minister. I’m looking forward to doing the same on the new hospital, when the Minister of Health comes up to cut the ribbon and I get to be in the background waving, but I’ll still take a lot of pride in that announcement.

We recognized that this was important, and that was all part of our skills-for-jobs blueprint and the work around understanding with LNG and with all of the skills that were needed. We did that work recognizing that. I’m appreciative of that, but that only covers a few of the trades.

What makes me nervous now is my son is just finishing second year of his carpentry apprenticeship. What is this going to mean to Northern Lights College in my area? Are they going to get additional funding? Are they going to get additional seats? Is my son going to get halfway through his apprenticeship and now be back on a waiting list and not be able to finish?

I think most of us in this House that are parents, specifically, know we do what we can to assist and encourage our children, but at the end of the day, they need to put food on the table as well. They need to raise their families.

[11:25 a.m.]

Although the light at the end of the tunnel, as we’ll say, of a red seal and having that certification is important for a future and for jobs, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to give up, a lot that will be discouraged and not go in.

Even though the member for Langley…. Yesterday he was on a radio show, and he referenced a PricewaterhouseCoopers report, saying that boosting the prestige of the trades by requiring red seal certification will result in an increase in registrations in apprenticeships. Well, just going out there and saying: “By the way, this specific trade….” It is only ten of about 30 or more. Only these ten are being picked. But saying that just because this specific trade is now classified on a list as red seal — now saying that it gives it extra prestige — so all of a sudden, children are just going to be lining up to do it — well, I don’t see that happening.

In fact, the member for Langley can cherry-pick that specific comment, but I went and looked at the report after that. I found it very interesting that the government would now reference a PricewaterhouseCoopers report when, in fact, a good majority of what’s said in that report…. I’m going to quote some of these things that are talked about on pages 5, 6, 7, 9. There’s a whole bunch of information in this report.

It starts with things like: “This policy will have an adverse effect on workers in the trades who already experience barriers, such as Indigenous workers, recent immigrants, people with disabilities and those with lower levels of education or English proficiency.” This is based on interviews that were done with a select group of stakeholders that they did.

It also references some of the challenges. “Compulsory trades will have a negative impact on the trades in general. Immigrants who currently work in the trades will be most adversely affected if compulsory trades are brought in. Compulsory trades do not allow for the flexibility needed in fields like home-building. Any expansion into the trades related to the building could result now in higher housing costs or more delays in construction and supply.”

Another angle that is talked about in here is about the negative impacts to the economy. If it does lead to a worker shortage, which they think it may, this will also have impacts on B.C.’s economic productivity. I mean, we all have seen the cost overruns and the additional costs in this province after this government brought in the union benefit agreements — and how prices have skyrocketed to get work done around the province on jobs, at a time when we are talking about B.C. being one of the worst places in North America when it comes to affordability. It’s one of the hardest places.

If you are fortunate enough to be able to raise up a down payment…. We know it can take decades. That’s been reported. But if you’re fortunate enough, usually with help from family, to get into the housing market, the prices have never been higher. The availability, the supply has never been lower. As we talked about earlier today, the average family now is paying $3,600 a year more in rent, if they’re fortunate enough to find a place that they can even rent and afford. And now this government is trying to bring in more regulation and red tape that is only going to increase the costs.

I’ve been fortunate enough, in my different careers, to work for companies and work for my own company to build houses here in British Columbia: in West Van, Burnaby, Vancouver before I moved up north, and then in Dawson Creek now — and even some in Terrace that I worked on.

[11:30 a.m.]

I understand, as well as many others on this side of the House, the economics that are required when you’re having to decide on whether you can not only afford to build a product, but are you going to be able to do it in a way that’s going to meet a price point that people can afford to then move into?

Every single piece that is added on to the development, whether it’s through increased labour costs, increased supply costs, delays in construction, development cost charges…. I could go on and on. But all of those — I think most people should understand, and they should realize — get passed on to the person. That gets passed on to the person through increased rents. That gets passed on to families through the increase in the cost of a home, and we’re seeing that right now.

I think most people, especially if you’re in Surrey and growing communities like that, will see how many people are working in the trades. I drive through Surrey. I drive through Richmond. I see the growth. I see the amount of people who are working in these sectors. I also know that they do that not only because of the jobs and the opportunities that are there, but it’s a dang good living. People are already able, in this sector, in these trades, to be employed and to make a good living. Why this government wants to complicate that by adding more red tape astounds me.

What’s also upsetting is how…. We’ve already talked about how secretive this government is. But if they really want to talk about putting something forward like this and say that this is for the benefit of British Columbians, why didn’t they actually talk to the majority of people who actually do this work?

I look at an organization like the ICBA, for instance, who hire and do more apprentices around First Nations people in our province, women. They have done an amazing job — them, the companies that work with them, that are part of their organization. They weren’t invited to the table. They weren’t asked an opinion.

It would appear, on the face, that this government once again went to their union friends and said: “What do you want us to do?” But we’re going to exclude 75 percent or more — actually, it’s more than that — of the province that work in this sector that are non-union.

Interjection.

M. Bernier: It’s 85. Thank you. It’s 85 percent.

I’m not trying to discredit unions. I’m a 25-year member of the IBEW myself, with the electrical workers. What I’m trying to say is that this should not be about one group being asked and not another. This is about trying to fix a problem, if the government sees this. It’s trying to create more spaces and help people get into the trades. It shouldn’t be about putting up barriers.

Now, again, red seal is important. I’m not taking away from that. But to tell people that, now, if you don’t have a red seal, you are all of a sudden less of a person, you are less qualified, you are less able to do the work…. That’s what I’ve heard from numerous members on the government side.

Interjections.

M. Bernier: I’d almost like the heckling to be louder. I can’t hear or understand what’s being said down there because it’s so muffled through the mask, but I do appreciate the comments.

I believe what the member from Surrey is acknowl­edging…. He’s agreeing with me that they should have done a better job. I think that’s what he’s saying, because again, I look at communities like Surrey, like White Rock, like Richmond, and to a smaller extent, parts of rural British Columbia that are growing. They need the skills. They need the skill set. They need the people that are willing to get into the trades. Nobody is arguing that in this House.

[11:35 a.m.]

What we’re saying is: why would this government actually make it harder? Why would they put up barriers? Why would they make the timelines, in some ways, so unrealistic? To hear yesterday that I was told: “Just go back to school for five years….” Do we really think that there are going to be a lot of people that are 50, 55, 60 years old that are now told that in order to keep their job or to get paid on that scale, they have to go back to school? Even though you have been doing the work for 35 years, you now have to go back for upgrading to get your red seal.

I guarantee you. If we’re talking about a labour shortage right now, this government has just increased it. People are going to say: “You know what? I don’t need that. I can go across the street and make $35 an hour as a labourer. I’ll take a $5- or $10-an-hour pay cut from my last five years — don’t have to go through all the crap and hassle that this government is trying to impose on me — and retire that way.” Or even worse, just leave the workforce altogether and go do something else. How is that going to help the issue?

To tell my child and anybody else that it could take up to ten years to be a carpenter or an electrician, to get your red seal…. It could take up to ten years? You could be a doctor in that time. You could be a lot of things in that time, for sure. But it goes back to my point. You’ve got a young family, trying to pay rent or pay for a new child — and then being told you have to wait ten years to be fully qualified for your job. Is that really what this government thinks is going to encourage our youth to get into the trades?

We should be reducing the red tape. We should be collectively talking about how important the trades are and collectively be looking at ways to remove barriers to promote our non-union and union companies, to promote people to get into the trades — not to put up barriers. That’s why I can’t support this.

A. Singh: Thank you to the member for speaking.

A no-brainer. Why wouldn’t we have mandatory skills certification? The fact of the matter is that British Columbia is an outlier, has been since 2003 — the only province without this. Despite the fearmongering from the other side about how there’ll be a labour shortage, how people that have been working will be unable to work right away…. It’s not true. There’s a phased-in built into this to protect that.

Interjection.

A. Singh: Phased-in built into this to protect into that — that’s the bottom line here. These regulations are there for that.

Again, a no-brainer. You know what is surprising to me? Having come from private practice, having come from the private enterprise, I was actually shocked to know that we actually had a Minister of Deregulation. How Orwellian is that? That’s all I could think of.

What has government regulation done for us? It has brought us clean water, clean air, safety standards, safer houses, safer vehicles. That’s what this is designed to do. Government is all about choices. What choices do we make? Why I support this bill…. I do support this bill. What this does is it makes complete sense. Mandatory skill certification is there to make things safer for all of us. That’s really the crux of this bill.

What does the other side want? They want no standards. The other thing that mandatory skill certification does…. It increases wages. That’s the other thing the other side doesn’t want. They want those to be stagnant.

Interjection.

A. Singh: Absolutely not. That’s exactly what happened in 2003, when you deregulated all of these things. Again, an outlier in all of Canada. The only province without any mandatory skill certification.

[11:40 a.m.]

A couple of weeks ago there was a forecast that there are going to be almost one million new jobs coming into British Columbia. We continue to lead Canada’s economic recovery with over 100,000 jobs added in 2021. B.C.’s economy is strong right now, and forecasts show that it will continue to grow. What this bill does is it addresses a gap there. It addresses a gap in skill certification.

In the next decade, we’re expecting a massive range of jobs to be opening in various occupations, and 85,000 jobs are projected in the trades alone. We’ve seen that people are moving here not only from overseas but from other parts of Canada. Lots of housing will need to be built. Infrastructure will need to be built. We will need people that are trained and that have those skills and have proof that they have those skills to fill out those jobs. There are going to be so many opportunities for meaningful work in British Columbia in the next few years, and that’s exactly what this bill is there to address.

Legislation comes first. You put in a framework, and everything else is built around it. So that’s what this bill does as well. The training centres will come once the legislation is there.

A lot has been made by the other side about how the actual act itself is condensed, is brief, and much is left to regulations. They were in government for 16 years. They know that that’s really normal in most pieces of legislation — that most of the nitty-gritty, day-to-day things are done through regulations. Nothing unusual there. Absolutely nothing unusual there.

Trades are absolutely critical to B.C.’s economic growth, especially during the pandemic, during the recovery. We’ve seen that. Tradespeople are building our homes, our bridges, our hospitals, our schools. They take care of our automotives. They take care of things. They fix our cars, keep our lights on. They keep our water flowing.

We want tradespeople to be able to count on having good, family-supporting, steady work by ensuring that they have the certified skills they need to be first in line for these job openings. Completing an apprenticeship to be able to get into a trade to earn certification is one of the best ways to help them on that path, and that’s exactly what this bill does.

Many of you know that in my past life, I was a lawyer. We do the same thing as well. Of course, it’s lawyers, so they change the apprenticeship to a fancy name called articling, but it’s essentially the same thing. We apprentice with another lawyer for a whole year before we’re able to practise. It’s an incredible experience. That’s where you gain the skills to be able to do the work you do, those skills that are not able to be taught in school.

That’s why this government is taking strong steps to modernize B.C.’s trades-training system and set an absolutely new vision for the future. As I said, government is all about choices. We choose to create jobs that are well-paying and that will be well-paying going way into the future. We have a rare, rare opportunity here to create a lasting legacy for our trades training and put in a system that puts workers first as we build a stronger and more inclusive economy and as we come into line with the rest of the provinces in Canada.

Again, B.C. is an outlier and has been an outlier since they deregulated things in 2003 — the only province without mandatory skilled trades certification. That means that there are, at this point, thousands of uncertified workers practising a trade with no formal recognition of their skills and knowledge levels and disparate wages that have no tie to the actual person’s skills itself, because there’s no way to actually recognize those skills because they’re not certified. That’s exactly what this bill does. It puts in place a procedure to be able to do that.

We know that these workers are often paid less and have lower rates of employment, stability and mobility, making it harder for them to support their families. Again, that’s what this bill addresses. Certification will give them that recognition and higher wages. This is particularly true for those in the underrepresented groups or equity-seeking groups — women, people of colour. With so many experienced tradesworkers expected to retire in the next little while, we need to make sure that there are going to be enough qualified journeypersons to train the future trades workforce and to keep our economy going strong.

[11:45 a.m.]

Again, much been made about the lack of actual training centres and everything. And again, you put in the legislation, you put in the framework, and then you put in investments for that. So that will be coming.

What will skilled trades certification do? It’ll make sure that workers are credentialed at the highest possible skill levels so that they can earn the best wages possible in their industry. It’ll make the industry more resilient in an evolving economy. We don’t live in isolation anymore; we live in the context of the world. It’ll break down barriers that keep underrepresented and equity-seeking groups from accessing good-paying jobs. It’ll shift the conversation so that trades are recognized as critical, prestigious and valuable careers that are there in our society, to attract more youth.

That really is part of the crux of it. When you certify something, and you recognize it…. This is why we have credentials. This is why we have bodies across other industries. It does attract prestige. It gives some standards to that industry, which is what is lacking at this point. Really, again, the bottom line is: all that this legislation does is bring us back in line with the rest of the country — the only province not to have mandatory skills training.

What the Skilled Trades BC Act will do is it’ll will replace the outdated Industry Training Authority Act and continue the Crown agency responsible for apprenticeship. It’s not just a name change. It is a change….

Interjections.

A. Singh: Oh, it’s not a name change. If it were just a name change, then why all of this fearmongering about lack of labour, about people not being able to work — if that was all it was. By your very definitions and by your very arguments, you’ve proved that it’s not a name change. It’s much more than that. It is a change in the way that we do business. It’s a change in the way that we treat people that work in these industries.

This renewed vision of SkilledTradesBC reflects the expanded responsibilities to oversee skilled trades certifi­cation. It’ll have a new focus on promoting and supporting apprentices and trainees throughout their training journey. It’ll establish a fair and transparent compliance model. Every regulation needs a compliance model to ensure that requirements are being applied consistently and employers know that they’re working on a level playing field.

You know, this didn’t come out of anywhere. Government conducted in-depth research and analysis into this, looking to other jurisdictions for best practices. Again, we haven’t had this here in many years, but we were fortunate that the rest of our provinces across Canada had this. We sought guidance from industry, led by the stakeholder advisory working group.

These changes also reflect what the government heard during broad public engagement held in the summer, where the government engaged extensively on how to best support workers, employers, Indigenous communities, communities of colour and women to transition to skilled trades certification and to inform this legislation that we have. This included consultation with external stakeholders, which included industry, labour and post-secondary trainers.

We also engaged, of course, with Indigenous leadership, with our partners and service providers. Our efforts to engage Indigenous partners align with the government’s commitments under the UN declaration, including incorporating ideas directly into this legislation. You’ll see that reflected in this legislation.

For example, it’ll be required that SkilledTradesBC “consult with representatives” of Indigenous peoples on the development and implementation of the strategic plan that underlies this bill. Also, in the bill itself, you will see a new object statement that has been added to affirm SkilledTradesBC’s strategic mandate “to promote partici­pation of Indigenous people in the industry training and apprenticeship” program.

What these legislative changes do is they ensure that B.C. will have a training program for many years, but it’ll have one of the best trades training systems and certification systems in the country. The modernized system will build on all of the accomplishments we’ve done over the last few years. It’ll do that by investing in additional apprenticeship advisers to provide hands-on guidance to apprentices and employer sponsors. It’ll do that by investing $5 million so that more tradesworkers can start apprenticeships or upgrade their skills at a recognized post-secondary institution.

[11:50 a.m.]

Again, you build the framework. You build in the legislation. You put in the regulations, and the institutions come afterwards. The investment comes afterwards. You cannot invest in something that has no framework. That’s exactly what this bill does.

By ensuring apprentices and trades students have the most up-to-date facilities in which to train…. It’ll ensure that we have best practices. It’ll provide opportunities for over 7,500 high school students to discover, explore, train and work in the trades. It’ll increase successful partici­pation of women, Indigenous peoples and underrepresented groups into the trades and will develop programs that address issues that may discourage members of these groups from pursuing a career in the skilled trades, such as bullying and harassment.

Since March of 2019, the ITA, the predecessor, reports a 26 percent increase of women participating in trades where women have represented less than 25 percent of registered apprentices. Since 2018, our government has invested nearly $85 million to help build new or upgrade existing trade centres and over $17 million in industry-standard training, and there are more investments to come. Again, you build the framework, and then you put in the investments afterwards. So there are more investments to come.

Now, seeing what’s going to be happening here in the next few years, is the time to build on the success and meet the challenges and bring British Columbia into compliance with the rest of Canada. Really, now is the time to ensure the trade workforce has the knowledge and skills and that that knowledge and those skills are recognized.

This legislation — what does it do? It gives trade workers the recognition that they deserve and that they haven’t had for almost 20 years. It’s the road to providing good-paying stable jobs that support families and communities. This is the reason I support this bill.

J. Brar: I’m also really pleased to stand up in this House today to support Bill 4, Skilled Trades BC Act, introduced by our government in this House last week. This is a much-needed, timely and important bill for our economy and for our future generations.

This new bill will establish a made-in-B.C. system to support and train apprentices and modernize the Crown agency responsible for trades training. The act lays the foundation to address labour shortages and support and recognize the critical work that skilled tradespeople do in British Columbia. This is a step in the right direction.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

I have been listening to the members from the other side with full interest. They’re really struggling to defend the undefendable. There is a difference between red tape and red seal. Red tape is a bad thing, but red seal is a good thing that does create better skill sets and that does create opportunity for people for better jobs. That’s the difference they are talking about.

If you look back, last week we introduced the labour market outlook, which forecasts job openings over the next ten years. B.C. continues to lead Canada’s economic recovery with 100,000 jobs added in 2021. B.C.’s economy is strong, and forecasts show that it will continue to grow.

In the next decade, we are expecting a wide range of jobs opening in various occupations. About 80 percent of these openings will require some form of post-secondary education. In the trades alone, we expect 85,000 job openings, with more workers retiring than entering trade occupations. There are so many opportunities for meaningful work in B.C. Tradespeople are critical to B.C.’s economic growth, especially during the COVID-19 recovery.

Tradespeople are building our homes, our bridges, our hospitals and our schools. Tradespeople are fixing our cars and keeping our lights on and our water flowing.

Noting the hour, I reserve my right to continue my speech, and I move adjournment of the debate.

J. Brar moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. K. Conroy moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:55 a.m.