Second Session, 42nd Parliament (2021)

OFFICIAL REPORT
OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Tuesday, June 8, 2021

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 87

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.
The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.


CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Statements

Hon. S. Robinson

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Hon. M. Dean

Hon. M. Dean

S. Cadieux

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

J. Sturdy

N. Sharma

T. Shypitka

K. Paddon

I. Paton

F. Donnelly

Oral Questions

K. Kirkpatrick

Hon. K. Chen

J. Tegart

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

S. Furstenau

Hon. A. Dix

S. Cadieux

Hon. S. Robinson

T. Halford

Hon. S. Malcolmson

D. Davies

P. Milobar

Hon. S. Robinson

Speaker’s Statement

Orders of the Day

Committee of Supply

T. Stone

Hon. R. Kahlon

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Hon. K. Conroy

J. Rustad

Proceedings in the Birch Room

Committee of Supply

M. de Jong

Hon. L. Popham


TUESDAY, JUNE 8, 2021

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Hon. A. Kang.

Introductions by Members

Hon. M. Dean: Today watching us are Jenny Fahy and Stirling Wakefield from Mayfield, in East Sussex, in England. From neighbouring Kent, the original, Russell Wakefield and his family — Ilze, Darens, Elina and Louise. I hope that the members will make very welcome my mom, two brothers and their family.

Hon. M. Rankin: I rise virtually in this House to introduce Chief Ron Sam of the Songhees First Nation and Chief Councillor Rob Thomas of Esquimalt First Nation and members of their respective nations.

The Lək̓ʷəŋin̓əŋ people are joined by members of neighbouring nations today, and they are currently en route by canoe to the Legislative Assembly. They arrive this afternoon to mark the 215th hour since the Legislature lowered its flag to half-mast in recognition of the lost children from the former Kamloops residential school.

Will the members of the House please join me in making them welcome today.

Statements

MESSAGE OF CONDOLENCE

Hon. S. Robinson: I rise today to acknowledge that one of our colleagues, who has since retired from this House, MLA Diane Thorne, who used to represent Coquitlam-Maillardville…. Her husband passed away a number of weeks ago.

I would ask that the Speaker, on behalf of all of us here in the Legislature, please send our condolences.

Introductions by Members

T. Halford: Cannon Beach, Oregon, holds a special place in my heart for two reasons. One is because it was where Goonies was filmed. I don’t know if members of this House are familiar with Goonies, but yes. More importantly than that, it was the place where I married my best friend eight years ago today, Holly Unwin.

I just wanted to wish her a very happy anniversary. I’ve already done that this morning, and I will continue to do that throughout the day.

Interjections.

T. Halford: And an Elvis impersonator showed up to serenade her. Well, I’m not there, but I just wanted to wish my lovely wife a very, very happy anniversary.

[10:10 a.m.]

A. Olsen: Today I rise virtually to celebrate two birthdays, and as I get to know my colleague from Cowichan Valley, I find new and interesting ways that our lives have become intertwined with each other. As we work in this Legislature day-in and day-out, that’s one of the ways. But I think it’s important to acknowledge that my colleague is celebrating her birthday today, as is my father, Carl Olsen.

I’m not going to disclose any ages, any numbers today. We’ll just leave that to another time. I just want to say a very happy birthday to both my father, Carl, and to my friend and colleague from Cowichan Valley.

Introduction and
First Reading of Bills

BILL 14 — EARLY CHILDHOOD
EDUCATORS ACT

Hon. M. Dean presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Early Childhood Educators Act.

Hon. M. Dean: I move that Bill 14 be introduced and read a first time now.

It’s my honour to introduce the Early Childhood Educators Act. The Early Childhood Educators Act is an im­portant part of our ongoing work to better support early childhood educators, and it lays the foundation for the work ahead. The act removes the regulation of ECEs and ECE assistants from the Community Care and Assisted Living Act and creates a new statute under the authority of the Minister Responsible for Child Care. By bringing these pieces together under a new stand-alone act, we’re making it clear how critical early childhood educators are to B.C. families and communities.

The new statute provides for the registration and oversight of early childhood educators and EC assistants, as well as the approval of post-secondary ECE programs through a public registry. This will help improve public confidence, because child care providers and parents can trust that the early childhood educators registered with the ECE registry meet a high-quality standard.

The act will help to reduce barriers to certifications for ECEs. The statute also gives the registrar authority to issue temporary certificates so internationally trained ECEs can work in their profession while getting certified here in B.C.

As we enter the fourth year of our ten-year child care plan, now is the time to make sure that the workforce be­hind the workforce and the heart of child care, B.C.’s early childhood educators, are well supported. The Early Childhood Educators Act is an important step in the right direction and will help ensure the profession continues to grow for generations to come.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Dean: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 14, Early Childhood Educators Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL 15 — EARLY LEARNING AND
CHILD CARE ACT

Hon. M. Dean presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Early Learning and Child Care Act.

Hon. M. Dean: I move that Bill 15 be introduced and read a first time now.

It’s my honour to introduce the Early Learning and Child Care Act. The Early Learning and Child Care Act has been a long time coming and is an important step towards our goal of making inclusive, universal child care a reality in British Columbia. The new act combines and streamlines the existing Child Care B.C. Act and the Child Care Subsidy Act.

[10:15 a.m.]

The ELCC Act authorizes the use of child care grants to improve the inclusiveness of child care and support Indigenous-led child care. The act will also require the Minister of Children and Family Development to produce an annual report on the actions the province has taken to support inclusive, affordable, accessible, quality, universal child care; support the connection between child care and K-to-12 education and provide a smooth transition between the two; and collaborate with Indigenous Peoples on child care matters.

This coordinated cross-government reporting approach will help increase transparency and identify government’s actions towards implementing an inclusive universal child care system. The act will establish the authority for the ministry to enact new regulations in the future, including the ability to set limits on parent fees for child care to help keep costs down for families.

While there’s more to do, the act will move British Columbia further along the path to inclusive universal child care, which will make a huge difference to B.C. families, our communities and our economy.

Mr. Speaker: Members, you heard the motion.

Motion approved.

Hon. M. Dean: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill 15, Early Learning and Child Care Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M203 — EQUAL PAY
REPORTING ACT

S. Cadieux presented a bill intituled Equal Pay Reporting Act.

S. Cadieux: Our world has changed significantly over the past year. However, one thing that hasn’t changed is the need for equal pay legislation. After waiting for government to act, I once again rise, for the fourth time, to take action and bring equal pay legislation to debate.

The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted the deep inequities within our system, and reminds us that until the gender pay gap is closed, true equity in our economy and our communities can’t be achieved. Monthly labour force survey results continue to demonstrate that women — and in particular, young women — have been more adversely impacted by pandemic job losses. That’s in addition to British Columbia recording the worst gender pay gap in Canada, at 18.6 percent.

It’s essential for them and all women in our province that we look forward to building a better, more equal economy for the future. We must act to ensure that the inequities of the past don’t continue.

The bill introduced today would require businesses of a prescribed size to report out on the pay gap they have between male and female employees — a change to previous versions of the bill, as government has refused to call previous versions on disagreement with the threshold at which businesses would become subject to the act. Today’s legislation leaves the threshold to be set by regulation, so I look forward to government calling the bill for debate.

Let’s finally get serious about working together on gender equity. There is ample time to get this legislation passed this legislative session. Let’s work together to get it done.

Mr. Speaker: Members, you heard the motion.

Motion approved.

S. Cadieux: I move the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

Bill M203, Equal Pay Reporting Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements
(Standing Order 25B)

OCEAN PROTECTION
AND ROLE IN ECONOMY

J. Sturdy: Today marks the United Nations World Oceans Day. In a coastal province like British Columbia, we have a great deal to appreciate. Yet at the same time, we need to address some of the greatest threats against our ocean’s health.

The ocean covers more than 70 percent of the planet, and we depend on it to produce at least 50 percent of the planet’s oxygen. As you may also understand, it’s a main source of protein for more than a billion people around the world. We also depend on the ocean for our global economy, and the United Nations estimates that 40 million people will be employed in ocean-based industries by 2030.

However, with 90 percent of the big fish populations depleted and 50 percent of the coral reefs on their way to destruction, we are clearly not on a sustainable path. “The ocean: life and livelihoods” is the theme for World Oceans Day in 2021.

[10:20 a.m.]

While the coastline of British Columbia stretches 954 kilometres from the tip of southern Vancouver Island to the community of Stewart, it actually totals more than 25,000 kilometres when all of the island coastlines are included.

People work and live all over this coast, and we must acknowledge its importance as a significant part of our provincial economy. Our ocean-based industries account for $17 billion worth of economic activity annually and employ 170,000 British Columbians in coastal communities stretching from the Salish Sea right up to the Alaskan border. In 2019, total sales of primary seafood production in British Columbia amounted to $1.1 billion. But sustainability is the key, and given the size of the problem, it is complex.

Among other concerns, the future health of our oceans will be dependent on our global collective efforts to effectively manage onshore and offshore fisheries, prevent the introduction of plastics into the ocean environment and have a credible carbon plan. We must add our voice in support of United Nations sustainable objective 14: conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources by 2030.

A big task, but it can be done.

CONTRIBUTIONS OF FILIPINO CANADIANS

N. Sharma: June is Filipino Heritage Month. It’s a time for us to celebrate one of the fastest-growing populations in our country. Within the last five years, the Philippines remains one of the top five sources of immigrants to my riding of Vancouver-Hastings, and I’m so proud to be their MLA and represent them.

Filipino Canadians are a prominent force in our pro­vince in cultural, social, artistic, economic and volunteer contributions to every part of our society. During this pandemic, we’ve seen their significant contributions to every sector, including child care and health care sectors, where many have been on the front lines keeping people safe and healthy. I want to thank all those front-line workers for all they have done to help us through this pandemic. Filipino Canadians continue to drive change as leaders in business, technology and advocacy work across the city, and our communities are enriched by their presence.

Unfortunately, Filipino Canadians have been on the receiving end of senseless acts of hate crimes that are on the rise in this city. In August 2020, a 61-year-old named MaryLou was shoved against her car outside a Vancouver supermarket by a stranger. Even more recently, in May of this year, a Filipino man was assaulted by a stranger who followed him off a bus. The perpetrator cut his eyebrow and destroyed his cell phone.

We must all stand in solidarity against these crimes. Nobody should feel unwelcome or unheard in B.C. or fear the threat of violence because of who they are.

This month and every month we look forward to connecting with and celebrating the Filipino community of Vancouver-Hastings and honouring them for all that they bring to our neighbourhood.

RESPONSE BY ROB AMSING
TO HOUSE FIRE IN CRANBROOK

T. Shypitka: June 7, 2019, started as an average late spring day in Cranbrook, B.C., but it wouldn’t end this way.

Rob Amsing was outside cutting a lawn when he smelled what he thought was garbage. When he looked down the block, he could see what appeared to be a house that was on fire. Indeed, the house at 325 5th Avenue and the home of Scott and Jerri-Pat Smith — which they occupied with Scott’s father, Gene, and their granddaughter Mariah — was going up in flames.

Rob ran toward the smoke and went to the front door to see if anyone was inside. Rob could see a dog barking through the smoke and kicked open the front door to retrieve the dog. Once inside, Rob found a confused and disorientated Gene Smith, approximately 85 years old at the time and not aware that the house was on fire and not willing to leave. At that point, Rob was forced to take Gene out of the house. But in the meantime, the frightened dog ran back into the burning home.

Rob then made a second selfless decision to go back into the house and round up the dog and bring him out, but this time, the fire was very, very intense. Rob then made a third brave decision. He entered again to check and see if anyone else was in the home. By this time, flames were shooting across the ceiling. He later said that it was like a scene out of the movie Backdraft.

Finding no one else, he exited just in time, as there was a propane gas explosion on the back deck of the home, and the main floor of the house was levelled within minutes. Many valuables were lost that day, but if Rob Amsing had not forced his way into the home when he did, the unthinkable loss of a beloved family member and a family pet would surely have happened.

[10:25 a.m.]

It should be noted that if not for the fearless efforts of the Cranbrook Professional Fire Fighters Local 1253, the fire would’ve surely gone a lot further down the block, due to the fire’s intense heat and the very high winds that day.

Rob Amsing is a hero. Our community is grateful, and I am proud he is a constituent of Kootenay East.

CHILLIWACK VEDDER RIVER
CLEANUP SOCIETY

K. Paddon: It’s that time again, where I get to share just a little piece of the reason that I love my home of Chilliwack-Kent. Today I want to introduce you all to the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society.

The society was started by local anglers in 2002 to protect and care for the waterways we love so much. The society is entirely volunteer and engages in a range of activities, including adopt a river and two large-scale annual cleanups every year — in April on Earth Day and in September for B.C. Rivers Day.

I spoke with Nikki Rekman, the president of Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society, and she shared about the endless energy of the volunteers, specifically mentioning Ross Aikenhead, a director and a “relentless volunteer.” She also described partnerships throughout the community, with the city of Chilliwack, the Fraser Valley re­gional district, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and B.C. conservation officers, and a very valued friendship with Scott Verschuur, of Valley Waste and Recycling, who supports the important work by providing free bins and pickups.

What can the incredible anglers, volunteers and partners of our community accomplish when they combine their passion, energy and environmental stewardship? Well, since 2002, over 6,000 volunteers have given almost 27,000 hours of effort and have cleaned up over 129 metric tonnes of garbage from the Chilliwack River Valley and Vedder River riparian areas.

That’s a lot of garbage, most of which is the result of illegal dumping or irresponsible recreating. That brings me to the message they wanted to share. Please recreate responsibly. Take with you what you brought.

Would the House please join me on this World Oceans Day, which is perfect, to thank the incredible volunteers of the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Society and all volunteers across British Columbia who care for our im­portant waterways.

PACIFIC NATIONAL EXHIBITION

I. Paton: Whether it’s the smell of mini-doughnuts, the sight of superdogs flying through an obstacle course or the unmistakable sound of the wooden roller coaster, Vancouver’s Pacific National Exhibition holds a special place in the hearts of most British Columbians.

It’s no different for me and my family. My grandfather John Paton began showing cattle and horses at the PNE in the 1930s, and I even have one of his first-place ribbons from 1938 on my lapel. My dad, Ian Paton Sr., also showed cattle at the PNE and was livestock superintendent of the PNE in the 1950s.

For many years, my brother Dave was the official livestock veterinarian at the PNE. As for me, I showed cattle at the PNE in the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s and ’90s through the 4-H program and beyond. I have also been a member of the PNE agriculture advisory committee where have I served for more than 30 years. I’m talking a lot about agriculture because while the PNE includes thrilling rides, midway games and tasty treats, it’s also a huge agriculture attraction each year for city dwellers and a highlight of the year for 4-H kids travelling to the big city from all parts of B.C. to participate in the PNE 4-H Week.

I’ve also had the opportunity for 35 years to serve as the auctioneer at the annual PNE 4-H auction. It’s a chance for city folks to see just how well farm animals are cared for and observe a livestock auction up close. Additionally, the 15-day summer fair typically attracts thousands of guests for its shows, exhibits, sporting events, amusement rides and concerts.

However, the fair was forced to cancel last year, which really hurt its bottom line and meant thousands of jobs lost, as the fair is B.C.’s largest employer for young people. The cancellation was a huge blow to the PNE, whose future remains in jeopardy after a year of financial loss. The 111-year-old exhibition is likely to lose nearly $15 million due to closures over the past year and is in desperate need of $8 million in financial aid to avoid shutting down.

The province must step up and save this iconic B.C. anchor attraction.

[10:30 a.m.]

RESPONSE TO COVID-19 BY
ADAM TURPIN AND SUSAN WALTER

F. Donnelly: I’m pleased to rise virtually today to recognize two residents of Coquitlam–Burke Mountain who are carrying out commendable activities to raise the spirits of their neighbours during the COVID-19 state of emergency.

Adam Turpin has faithfully continued to sing his nightly rendition of O Canada in front of his home at 7 p.m. for the past 425 evenings in a row to honour front-line and health care workers for their efforts during this pandemic.

I joined Adam a few weeks ago to congratulate him on his 400th performance. Adam is a music teacher and professional singer. He says it brings him great joy to acknowledge front-line workers as he wants them to know their work is much appreciated. He also brings cheer to his neighbours and other visitors who enjoy his bass-baritone version of our national anthem.

Early in the pandemic, Susan Walter, another constituent of mine, thought she would be a good neighbour while making use of scraps of cloth she had accumulated over time. She started sewing face masks and has now given away over 1,400 of them, while collecting several thousand dollars in donations to support the work of her two favourite charities. Susan says her fingers are still limber after all the sewing, and the thrill she feels whenever someone stops at the wooden box in front of her house to pick up a mask or two has not diminished.

Members, I’m sure you all know someone like Adam or Susan in your ridings — unsung heroes. Please join me in acknowledging Adam Turpin and Susan Walter, two generous, community-minded individuals who are deeply committed to spreading warmth and happiness during these stressful COVID times.

Oral Questions

CHILD CARE PLAN

K. Kirkpatrick: We know women have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. Unemployment for young women is 11 percent higher. Women have dealt with the stress of juggling work and child care needs.

Four years ago, this Premier promised to: “Bring in $10-​a-day child care.” But he has failed miserably to do so. Instead of actual assistance today, parents get bungled and multiple misleading government news releases.

Can the Premier confirm that only 6,000 child care spaces have been opened to date by this second-term government?

Hon. K. Chen: For many, many years, British Columbian families have been struggling with a lack of affordable, high-quality early learning and child care opportunities. When we became government in 2017, we were faced with child care chaos and crisis, with the former B.C. Liberal government’s actions that caused families to struggle for many, many years.

We’ve started that journey to build and bring in a universal, high-quality, inclusive early learning and care system with over three dozen strategies, including the fastest space creation ever in B.C.’s history. To put that in perspective, we have created and supported the creation of spaces twice more than the former B.C. Liberal government has created in 16 long years.

Mr. Speaker: The member for West Vancouver–Capi­lano, supplemental.

K. Kirkpatrick: Well, interestingly enough, between 2005 and 2017, the B.C. Liberals created 39,959 spaces, which is, on average, 3,030 spaces per year. Let’s hope that the Premier’s NDP math isn’t being taught to our children.

In estimates, the minister was clear: “6,000 spaces have been opened.” The Premier told every family in British Columbia they would get $10-a-day child care. He has failed to deliver.

Will the Premier commit to stop with the talk, stop ma­king even more promises and announcements and actually deliver on the ones he’s already made to parents?

[10:35 a.m.]

Hon. K. Chen: The member opposite can throw out any information they want, but that’s incorrect. We have been accelerating the creation of spaces…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, come to order.

Hon. K. Chen: …and created twice more of the spaces in three years than the former B.C. Liberal government has created in 16 years together. We have been bringing affordability to tens of thousands of families.

Ninety percent of providers in this province are joining our fee reduction program to bring down the cost of child care up to $350 a month. When the former government actually took away child care subsidy from B.C. families, that caused families to face fee increases of $100, $200 per month. We are bringing $10-a-day and affordable child care to tens of thousands of families in British Columbia.

We are proud of the work that we do when the other side of the House voted against our Childcare B.C. plan every step of the way.

J. Tegart: We have a quote from the minister from est­imates last week: “About 6,000 spaces have been opened.” So which information is true?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. One member at a time.

J. Tegart: Is it the estimates, or is it the minister’s statements today, talking about throwing out numbers.

It happens all too frequently. The Premier makes a big promise, then botches it and hopes people forget. People like advocate Sharon Gregson haven’t forgotten: “It is not okay for the B.C. government to put forward a minuscule commitment compared to what they promised.”

Two elections in a row, Minister, the Premier made the promise of $10-a-day child care, and then he bungled it.

Can the Premier tell us why he has chosen to break his promise to parents not once but twice?

Hon. K. Chen: We need to remember where we came from. The former B.C. Liberal government has left a chaotic system that we have been trying to fix since 2017.

I am going to share this with the opposite member, that they need to face the reality, that it is since we became government, every single week, there are new child care spaces being created and being supporting families across B.C. communities. This is what a single parent, Sarah, has to say. If the opposite member doesn’t want to hear what parents are saying, then why are you asking the question, when you neglected the child care crisis for 16 years? Through the Chair, sorry.

This is what Sarah, a single parent, has to say: “The new affordable child care benefit has been tremendous help to my family. As a single mom, this financial support has been instrumental in giving me the opportunity to go back to school to retrain for a new profession.”

That was not available when the other side of the House were in government. We have been bringing down the cost of child care to tens of thousands of families. We are creating new child care spaces across B.C. communities every single week. We are supporting early childhood educators with the wage enhancement. This year, September, early childhood educators will get a $4 an hour wage enhancement, when the other side of the House — when they were in government — they took wage top-ups from early childhood educators.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Who’s asking a question, please? Can we have one member asking a question, or everybody wants to ask questions?

J. Tegart: Well, to the minister, the numbers you are throwing out — a child care space every week is 52 spaces. Last week it was, in estimates, about 6,000 spaces have been opened, and that’s a direct quote from the minister. So what is it, minister?

Despite the Premier’s clear promise four years ago, the minister confirmed in estimates that there is no plan in place for universal $10-a-day child care: “Different funding models are definitely being taken into consideration.”

This Premier has gone from universal $10-a-day daycare to prototype sites to some alternative plan. Can the Premier tell us exactly what this alternative funding plan is?

Hon. K. Chen: I really want to take this opportunity to thank all the child care providers, early childhood educators, advocates who have been working with us, together, to make sure we can create an early learning and care system for B.C. families.

[10:40 a.m.]

We need to learn how to bring down the cost of child care. The other side of the House, when they were in government, ignored the crisis. We have a fee reduction program that’s bringing down the cost of child care up to $350 a month, with 90 percent of providers joining this program.

We also have the affordable child care benefit….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Minister, continue.

Hon. K. Chen: We also have the affordable child care benefit. That brings $10-a-day child care to tens of thousands of families along with the prototype site. So many families have benefited from our program, and we have the space creation that’s the fastest in B.C.’s history.

If the members opposite want to hear what the community is saying, this is a quote from the city of Prince George. Chris Bone, the city of Prince George social planner manager, is saying: “At the time when the former Liberal government…. There wasn’t enough money av­ailable to help create spaces that were required for child care. But the environment is very different in 2019, because, thankfully, we now know there is funding available to help create the spaces.”

And those are the actions our government has been taking, when you ignored the crisis for 16 years.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, you’re wasting your precious time.

Leader of the Third Party.

COVID-19 REOPENING AND
ROLE OF VACCINE PLAN AND VARIANTS

S. Furstenau: As low case numbers hold steady and more British Columbians get their first dose of the COVID vaccine, it has been a sigh of relief after almost a year and a half of severe stress. We have a lot of reasons to be cautiously optimistic.

Yet once again, we can see trends elsewhere. In the U.K., due to the delta variant, the seven-day rolling average of cases has doubled from 2,400 on May 28 to 5,000 on June 7. Yesterday, Dr. Gustafson said that the delta variant of COVID-19 is still relatively uncommon, with just over 500 cases identified in B.C.

In the Peel region of Ontario, however, they are just a couple of weeks away before the variant takes hold, ac­cording to their medical officer of health, Dr. Loh. In Nova Scotia, chief medical officer Dr. Strang says while the province is “at the tail end of the third wave, the delta variant, first identified in India, is something to be concerned about.”

The emerging information, Dr. Strang says about the delta variant: “…shows it is more easily transmitted and not as well protected against by one dose of the vaccine. This is further evidence to how we need to remain cautious until the majority of Nova Scotians are fully vaccinated.” In a few short weeks, Canada-wide travel may be on the table, including to regions with high transmission of the delta variant.

My question is to the Minister of Health. How is his government managing the risk that the delta variant poses to the many British Columbians with only one dose of the COVID-19 vaccine?

Hon. A. Dix: Thank you to the member for her question. What, I think, the evidence suggests is that we have to continue to pursue our immunization campaign with the kind of speed we’ve been engaged in, in the last month. For example, last week — 380,000 new doses administered in our province, significantly more. As of the end of the week, 98 percent of the Pfizer vaccine that we had received from the federal government was in people’s arms, which I think is an extraordinary achievement.

It’s also the reason why we have taken a step-by-step plan to limiting or easing restrictions in British Columbia, such that the step 2 will not occur before June 15, and the step 3, under any circumstances, won’t occur before July 1. A step-by-step, prudent approach.

In addition — and this is a concern, as the member suggests, with other jurisdictions that may have lower levels, ultimately, of immunization, such as some areas of the United States and less testing for variants of concern, less whole genome sequencing than is done in British Columbia — the best way, as Dr. Gustafson said yesterday, for us to prevent against these variants is to continue with first-dose and second-dose immunization.

[10:45 a.m.]

That’s exactly what we’re doing. We’re continuing to monitor the COVID-19 pandemic and continuing to take a step-by-step approach to the easing of restrictions, considering every day the circumstances on hospitalizations, on critical care, on cases and on vaccination.

Mr. Speaker: The Leader of the Third Party on a supplemental.

COVID-19 REOPENING
AND USE OF RAPID TESTING

S. Furstenau: Thank you to the minister for the res­ponse. Yes, vaccinations and the immunization program, as we can see, are moving us in the right direction. How­ever, the emerging variants of concern remain a problem in many places in Canada and the world.

One thing that British Columbia hasn’t done that other places have done is to lean into rapid testing. Yesterday in Nova Scotia, the Halifax news reported that the government in Nova Scotia is going to expand rapid testing. Again, this is a quote from the newspaper: “We’ve been working with employers and the federal government to pilot a workplace testing program across the province,” said the chief medical officer of health. “Almost 50 employers, as well as the Halifax Chamber of Commerce, have signed on. Dr. Strang says these employers will get free rapid point-of-care tests, as well as training and support to help them set up testing programs in their workplaces.”

As they went through the recent third wave, Nova Scotia has determined that they discovered 10 percent of asymptomatic cases of COVID through their use of rapid testing in that province.

My question is to the Minister of Health. We’ve learned a lot in the last 16 months about COVID-19. We’ve been able to look at other jurisdictions and how they’ve responded and what has been successful and not. As we enter into this phase of the pandemic, where we hope to see the cases reduced, will we be more assertively going for an elimination strategy that uses rapid testing in order to keep our cases low?

Hon. A. Dix: One thing that has worked in British Columbia — and we’ve seen it as other jurisdictions have reviewed what has happened, especially with respect to testing…. What we have done in British Columbia is have our provincial health officer and our medical health officers lead on the question of testing — to use the gold standard PCR testing principally and to incrementally use more rapid testing, which is what we’re doing right now.

We will continue to follow that advice from experts who are putting the resources and the means in the hands of experts to deal and to reduce the transmission of COVID-19 in British Columbia. I think that is and continues to be the right course.

Of course, the government and public health does not always get it right, but we have continued to adapt and put the resources in the hands of those that can make the best decisions for all of us. We’re going to continue to do that. There will be, and there will continue to be, as the technology improves, greater and greater use of rapid testing in British Columbia, as there are in other jurisdictions.

The decisions around what we should do in that regard will be led by public health, as they have been from the beginning of this pandemic.

GENDER WAGE GAP
AND PAY EQUITY LEGISLATION

S. Cadieux: B.C. has the dubious distinction of having the worst gender pay gap in Canada. Between the COVID-19 pandemic and this government’s failing child care promises, things aren’t looking a lot better.

The Premier could start by keeping his snap election promise to pass pay equity legislation, which has been introduced four times now by the official opposition.

Will the Premier keep his promise to voters on pay equity?

Hon. S. Robinson: I’m really pleased to get up on my feet and talk about equity. We just heard from the Minister of State for Child Care, who talked about a significant child care plan finally organizing for the lives of women, when so many of us have suffered and struggled to find child care, and we finally have a plan in place here.

That is the biggest social program we can do for equity for women in this province.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey South, supplemental.

S. Cadieux: Well, it’s disappointing that the minister is completely missing the point. This isn’t about child care. It isn’t about minimum wage. It’s about pay equity.

When I first proposed pay equity legislation, the Premier called it a “political stunt.” With the pandemic having delivered a crushing blow to gender equity, the Premier is still missing in action.

How much longer will it take the Premier…? Or will the Premier make women wait on pay equity? It’s a simple question.

[10:50 a.m.]

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, women are often the servers in the restaurant industry. I’m sure the member is well aware of that. I’m sure that there are many of us who have had that role.

We got rid of the server wage. If I recall, the other folks on the other side of the House thought that was perfectly acceptable. We’ve done more for women than the people on the other side of the House have ever done.

MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION
SERVICES FOR WOMEN

T. Halford: We know we’re in a crisis when it comes to addictions and mental health, and we know that the plan laid out by this government is simply not working. A report from the B.C. Women’s Health Foundation shows that over 40 percent of women in British Columbia don’t have access to the mental health they need during this pandemic — more than 40 percent. This government is failing women who need assistance.

My question to the Premier is a simple one. Will he pro­vide women with the help they need not based on their ability to pay but solely based on their need for treatment?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: At the foundation of our government’s work through this ministry — the first time that a Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions has been established in Canada — is to build that system of care that did not exist when we formed government. We’ve been working hard every day to build up that continuum of care so that people can access both mental health and addiction services when and where they need it.

There is more to do, there is no doubt. But the progress that we have been able to make already, I imagine that the member opposite would be in support of. We’ve just put a historic half a billion dollars for mental health and addictions service, so that people can get care when and where they need it, into this year’s budget. There’s never been such a new infusion of investment in the province’s history.

I would imagine that the member would support the 100 new adult treatment beds that we’ve added this year already and our budget commitment to do another almost 200; our expansion — particularly during COVID, which has made everything worse, from the addictions crisis to mental health — for us to stand up new counselling grants; for us to put $25 million into the system in quick order, with the support from across the aisle, to stand up community counselling grants. Particularly focused on women are our new investments in eating disorders in every single health authority and working with non-profits on the front line.

There is more to do, but absolutely, we are working hard every day to build that system up despite the setback that the pandemic has posed.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Surrey–White Rock on a supplemental.

T. Halford: Given this minister’s past performance in last week’s estimates, I was hopeful, optimistic, that she would not continue to politicize — incorrectly, I might add — such an important file such as mental health and addictions. But she continues to amaze.

What I will point out from the study: two-thirds of women that are essential workers are experiencing worry, anxiety or stress, and two in five are experiencing depression. And 63 percent of younger women reported feeling worry, anxiety or stress. Indigenous women and those from a minority community were more inclined to rate their emotional health poorly.

Again to the Premier, will he do the right thing and ensure the services are provided and that no one has to choose between feeding their families, paying their rent or getting the support they desperately need?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: In every way, despite the setback of the pandemic and the huge surge of stress that people are under…. Everybody’s mental health is worse. The toxic illicit drug supply is more poisonous. More people are dying every day. It is a tragedy, and one that we have tried to stand up new resources every day in order to meet.

But keep in mind, while fighting two public health em­ergencies, we’ve been building up a system of care: ex­panding Foundry; enhancing suicide prevention in post-secondary institutions; standing up 24-7 access to counselling — no-cost and low-cost counselling across the province, virtual counselling available in every region; 80 new seats to train new mental health workers.

[10:55 a.m.]

In every aspect of the health care system, we are building in new supports for people. There is more to do, no doubt. But if the member is going to make comments about my performance in estimates last week, for him to spend three days with the minister and not ask a single question about Pathway to Hope, not a single question about the service plan that we’re required to file associated with the budget…. If he wanted to ask questions about the system of care that we’re building up, he had three days to do it and failed to.

D. Davies: The minister keeps talking around the issues, which isn’t what women and those suffering with mental health issues need right now. They need the minister to listen and to act.

More than 40 percent of women reported not having access to the mental health supports that they need. Getting help requires a referral from a doctor, which can take months, or private counselling, which isn’t covered by the province.

Will the Premier commit to actually investing…?

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Let’s listen to the question, please.

D. Davies: Will the Premier commit to actually investing in a seamless mental health and addictions system that ensures people get the help that they need when they need it?

Hon. S. Malcolmson: That is exactly the system that we are working hard every day to build, one that did not exist before, one that we are investing in, in unprecedented ways through our budget.

Here are some of the tools that we’ve already added to the mental health, addictions and health care system that, despite the setback that the pandemic has posed, are already creating more access for people, regardless of their pocketbook.

We are embedding mental health care services in a team-based approach across the province, to have already opened at 23 new urgent primary care centres. That is same-day access.

We have opened B.C.’s first mental health and addictions substance use urgent response in Surrey, opened the 75-bed new Mental Health and Substance Use Wellness Centre at Royal Columbian last August, provided $15 million to 49 community organizations to provide no-cost and low-cost counselling and $2.4 million to 20 other organizations to expand counselling virtually and in person.

We’re helping to train 100 South Asian youth ambassadors to be able to help get the word out to people and remove the stigma about asking for help. We’ve expanded Foundry Virtual and now funded a new Foundry app so people can engage in an online system — again, no cost — built for and by young people.

The list goes on. There is so much more for us to do, but in every way, there is more support available for people who are in need. We urge anybody who’s struggling under the mental health impacts of COVID to ask for the help that they need, and we will get that to them.

Mr. Speaker: The member for Peace River North on a supplemental.

D. Davies: The results, though, aren’t there for everyone to see. The minister continues to speak off of her stale speaking notes, day after day, with no end in sight, and the crisis continues to worsen.

The reality is, particularly women…. They are not getting the help that they need. Racialized women face even more challenges.

Interjections.

D. Davies: And I will.

Michaella Shannon…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members, let’s listen to the question.

D. Davies: …with the Support Network for Indigenous Women and Women of Colour says: “For a racialized person….”

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Members will come to order. Members. Both sides.

D. Davies: I’ll read a quote, again, from Michaella Shannon with the Support Network for Indigenous Women and Women of Colour. She says: “For a racialized person to be able to speak to a therapist from a racialized background, someone who understands the negative and traumatic effects of racism from their own personal experience, makes a massive positive impact in the success of their treatment.”

The Premier’s in charge. His budget is bigger than the Mental Health and Addictions budget. Will he take leadership, break down the barriers and get these women the help that they need?

[11:00 a.m.]

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Anybody that is struggling with mental health challenges — lots of people are — and addictions, as well, please go to our website. At gov.bc.ca/covid19mentalhealthsupports, you’ll see a whole list of translated services…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members on the opposition bench, please come to order.

The minister will continue.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: …that are being stood up by fantastic community organizations — multiple languages.

Please. We want people to reach out. If the member has got a particular constituent that he wants me to talk with, I’m very happy to learn more.

I’ll also note that $2.7 billion is spent every year on mental health and addictions, I’m sure the member would be glad to know — not inside a new ministry but integrated across government, through the Health Ministry, through Education, through the Ministry of Children and Family Development. That’s the way we’re going to tackle this terrible mental health and addictions crisis.

GOVERNMENT ACTION ON WOMEN’S ISSUES

P. Milobar: Well, let’s be clear. This is a minister that’s a minister on paper only. By the answers in estimates last week, it made it very clear that every other minister is actually responsible for approving funding and programming or not. It seems that day in, day out in this House, when we bring forward questions….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Minister, come to order, please.

Opposition House Leader, continue.

P. Milobar: It seems every day in this House when we bring forward questions and concerns from our constituents and people across this province, this government gets very, very amazed that we would have the audacity to remind them of their own promises and their own commitments, and refuses to actually acknowledge or answer based on those.

Today we asked very simple questions, straightforward questions, about their twice-promised $10-a-day universal child care. We asked the minister about her own statements in estimates, only a week ago, that only 6,000 spaces were created under this government’s watch. Instead, this minister has the audacity to stand in this House today and try to give a completely different answer.

We ask questions and try to get a bill called on pay equity that this government has promised, in elections, to bring forward. If they don’t want to debate our bill, where is the government’s bill after 4½ years, after two elections? Instead, the Minister of Finance gives a very dismissive question that ranges around everything and anything to do but pay equity. Then we get into mental health supports for women, who have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic.

Again, the Premier is in charge of all of this. The Premier has made promises, in two elections, on all of this. When will the Premier start to deliver even one of these things?

The Premier has also said that he’s all in favour of a good idea, no matter what side of the House it comes from. When is the Premier going to live up to even one of his commitments in this House? When is the Premier, at a minimum, going to start bringing forward the supports that the women that have been disproportionately impacted by COVID desperately need for their mental health supports, moving forward?

Hon. S. Robinson: Well, I find it very interesting that on the other side of the House, the members opposite suddenly have a new-found interest in women.

I recall when they were in government, they actually eliminated the Women’s Ministry. They eliminated it — gone, just gone. They did nothing to advance pay equity when they were in government. They absolutely ignored the rising costs of child care. They even brought in legislation, in 2002, that led to the largest layoff of women in this province’s history. These were racialized women.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. S. Robinson: They slashed legal aid services. That affected women so significantly. They even deducted child care support payments for women on disability. They refused to protect jobs of people fleeing domestic violence, and of course, they refused to increase the minimum wage. Now, there is a lot of work for us to do to make up for last time.

[11:05 a.m.]

We have a significant investment in child care, the big­gest investment in child care in B.C.’s history, that is actively going on — thousands and thousands of spaces. We’re building housing for women fleeing violence — again, thousands and thousands of spaces. We have a parliamentary secretary who is dedicated, absolutely dedicated, to making sure that all ministries are addressing women’s issues. We have representation on this side of the House. I can’t wait till all of my colleagues are here. On this side of the House, we have more women than the opposition has for all of their members. I can’t wait to show everybody.

[End of question period.]

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Question period is over, Members.

Speaker’s Statement

RULES FOR DEBATE ON
PRIVATE MEMBERS’ MOTIONS AND
REFERENCE TO OTHER MEMBERS

Mr. Speaker: During Monday morning’s sitting, the Chair issued several cautions to members participating in debate on the private member’s motion under consideration by the House. Throughout the debate, several members of the official opposition caucus spoke about the conduct of the Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Housing and used debate on the motion under consideration by the House to bring accusations against the Attorney General.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker, who was in the Chair, brought members’ attention three times to standing order 40(2), which states: “No Member shall use offensive words against any Member of this House.”

As I indicated I would do at the conclusion of Monday morning’s sitting, I have reviewed the transcript of the proceedings and wish to provide further direction to all members.

Parliamentary Practice in British Columbia, fifth edition, page 151, states that in making remarks in the House, members should bear in mind the following: “Members cannot quote another Member’s words to avoid offending Standing Order 40; a Member cannot do indirectly what the Member is unable to do directly…. The conduct of a Member cannot be canvassed in debate, nor can charges of personal character be made, except by a substantive motion, for which notice is required.”

Erskine May, the procedural authority of the United Kingdom Parliament, 25th edition, pages 496-497, states: “The general requirements of moderation in parliamentary language…are viewed as particularly important when Members are speaking of other Members, not because other Members require specific protection, but in order to preserve the character of parliamentary debate.”

Furthermore, in the House of Commons of the United Kingdom, Erskine May, 25th edition, page 497, states: “The Speaker has ruled that a Member who intends to mention another Member’s name in the Chamber in a form which amounts to personal reflection — but which is short of the kind which anyway would require a substantive motion — should, unless the other Member is present, inform the other Member in advance, in a timely and reasonable manner.”

The same principle has been upheld in our own House, as reflected on page 160 of Parliamentary Practice in British Columbia, fifth edition.

Given the nature of the comments made during the course of Monday’s debate and the consideration that I have outlined, this was done in a manner that I deem to be conclusively unparliamentary.

Furthermore, I believe it to be a misuse of the intent of private members’ motions, which afford private members with an opportunity, every Monday morning, to express their views on issues of importance to them and not to make direct, indirect or veiled remarks about other members of the House.

In future debate, I ask members to be mindful of the guidance that the Chair has provided. Thank you.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call estimates debate for the Ministry of Jobs, Economic Recovery and Innovation.

In the Douglas Fir Room, Section A, I call estimates for the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development.

In Section C, the Birch Room, I call continued estimates debate for the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
JOBS, ECONOMIC RECOVERY
AND INNOVATION

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.

The committee met at 11:10 a.m.

The Chair: The committee will stand in recess for five minutes.

The committee recessed from 11:10 a.m. to 11:14 a.m.

[S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.]

On Vote 35: ministry operations, $78,648,000 (continued).

[11:15 a.m.]

T. Stone: Good morning, Chair. Good morning to the ministry staff who are here to support us in this process.

I think with the limited time that we have this morning, I’d like to focus on StrongerBC and just begin to walk through some of the different programs. I want to start with this sort of general piece.

I think we can all agree there was a lot of uncertainty when the pandemic hit — a lot of unknowns, a lot of anxiety that built up — so there was a need to respond quickly. Respond quickly to support people. Respond quickly to support business. Respond quickly to support communities.

As a refresher, it may seem like quite some time ago, but it was in March of 2020 — so over a year ago, about 14 or 15 months ago — when this House unanimously came together and very quickly, frankly, unified behind a support package for the pandemic, again, to ensure that government was beginning the process of doing everything possible, with the full support of this House, to support people and businesses and communities.

Despite the package being approved in March of 2020, and the StrongerBC component being announced in September of 2020, when you look at the 2020 fiscal year, only 40 percent of the dollars that were approved in March of 2020 were actually out the door by the end of the fiscal year.

I guess the first question to the minister would be this. Does he quibble with the 40 percent number? If it’s not 40 percent, what is the number, in terms of the total dollar value of supports that were out the door, in the hands of those that the supports were intended for, by the end of 2020? Does he think that if, indeed, the number was 40 percent, does he believe that that was an acceptable level of disbursement of the supports to the end of December 2020, recognizing these dollars were approved nine months earlier?

[11:20 a.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: Thank you to the hon. member for the question, and of course, a big thank-you to all the amazing people within my ministry who are here today and helping support this estimates process. The member, I think, left out a few details, so I thought I’d just go back and walk through how the process unveiled.

Of course, the member mentioned that we’re in a pandemic, and there were a lot of uncertainties about how the pandemic would affect people. I think what makes me most proud of government and our amazing civil servants is the ability to adapt and adjust as the pandemic changed throughout the pandemic time. The pandemic that was in March wasn’t the pandemic in September, wasn’t the pandemic at Christmas and wasn’t the pandemic we have now. We’ve been able to show an extreme amount of innovation and flexibility as a government. It certainly makes me very proud.

The member mentioned that dollars were approved in March. He’ll also know that over spring and early summer of 2020, government spent time trying to assess where the needs would be, where the pressure points are, where the challenges may be. The StrongerBC projects were announced on September 17, 2020. I think that’s an important date of the announcement, just for the context of this conversation.

Initiatives that were fully developed and approved were launched during the period when there was an election, so a lot of programs were actually announced and launched by government at that time. I think for the record we should frame…. There were three key themes that were developed at that time. I’ll go through them briefly, just so that it’s on the record.

We had supporting B.C. businesses. We had the small and medium-sized business grants. We had agritech gra­nts, which were $7.5 million. Manufacturing grants were $17 million. We had launch online and digital marketing bootcamps, $44 million. Mass timber demonstration projects were $3 million. Supports for agricultural businesses, $5.6 million. Increasing B.C. food production and processing, $1.95 million. Small farm business acceleration program and provincial replant program were $890,000. On-farm innovation top-up program was $1.6 million. Restoring Confidence app was $2 million. Digitization of industrial land, $700,000.

[11:25 a.m.]

Destination B.C. tourism recovery strategy was $5 million. Tourism Task Force for Indigenous tourism recovery fund was $5 million.

Of course, part of StrongerBC was getting people back to work. There was $1.8 million for a youth employment program for parks conservation services, $25 million for community job creation projects and rural opportunities around wildfire risk reduction, $12 million for forest em­ployment program and $430,000 for recreation sites, trails and youth group program expansion.

And $20 million for employment supports for people with disabilities facing barriers; $10.53 million targeted training for health and human services, $20 million for short-term skills training for in-demand jobs; $2 million for micro-credentialing; $15 million for Indigenous communities skills training and education.

Then we also had a stream for stronger communities: $1.9 million for anti-racism during the restart and recovery phase, which we know was critically important, given the rise in hate and racism we’ve seen through the pandemic. Technology and innovation connectivity was an additional $90 million.

A mine remediation project was $1.57 million. Building innovation fund and recapitalization, additional $8 million. Commercial Vehicle Innovation Challenge ARC program was $30 million. The go electric specialty used ve­hicle incentive program, $31 million. Property assessed clean energy road map and pilot program, $2 million. B.C. Parks stimulus proposal construction projects was $5 million.

Species and ecosystems conservation and restoration was $10.21 million. Watershed initiative, wetlands projects, $27 million. Clean coast, clean waters initiatives, of course, on clean oceans day today, $14.83 million. Recycled plastics and manufacturing stimulus was $5 million.

Remote and rural community access program was $25.65 million. Air access grants, $15.75 million. Return-to-school funding, of course, which was critically important: $45.6 million.

Of course, there was funding for jobs in health care, $299 million. Mental health support was $2 million. Additional youth suicide prevention and life promotion was $2.33 million.

The hon. member will know that that’s a significant amount of supports that were put in place, announced in September. That doesn’t even go into all the other government supports that we’ve put in place, which the member knows are quite comprehensive.

Of course, all members of this House supported that. I think those, all those supports together, are quite substantial. Certainly, I think, all those supports have put us in a good place, given that we’re just coming out of the third wave and brighter days are ahead.

T. Stone: Well, the range of comprehensive supports the minister just rattled off and that he speaks of may sound good when he rattles it off in a list, but we are still in the eighth position across the country when it comes to direct support, direct relief, direct grants for business.

I want to ask the minister, with respect to StrongerBC…. I’m well aware that StrongerBC was launched in September. The question would be this: why did it take six months? The dollars were all approved in this Legislature, in this chamber, in March of 2020. The government didn’t create and launch StrongerBC until September and waited for…. The majority of the supports for business in particular didn’t begin to get pushed out the door until September, when StrongerBC was announced.

There was a tremendous amount of pain that small businesses, in particular, felt in that ensuing period between March and September of 2020. Can the minister advise this House: why did the government wait for six months? Why did it take six months? Why did the government wait so long to push StrongerBC out the door, which contained critical supports and programs for people in businesses across this province?

[11:30 a.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: It does feel like a million years ago, but it…. So in that time, maybe in all of our collective mem­ories, a lot of the things that happened right away may have been forgotten by all members — even when I was thinking back about it and thinking: “Well, what happened at that time?” There have been so many things that have happened during this intense time for everyone.

I think the member will know that the government im­mediately moved to cut property taxes, cut and deferred others to reduce pressures on the business community. We prohibited commercial evictions, which was critically important at that time, because there was a lot of stress being faced. We forgave three months of hydro bills. We worked with the federal government to provide a wage subsidy and commercial rent program, which were all things at that time that were requested from the business community.

During that time, there were a lot of changes happening. The member will remember that there was a lot of panic, a lot of uncertainty around where the needs will be, how the pandemic will actually play out in our communities and in our province and the country and the world. So there was a lot of consultation being done around where the real needs are, where the real pressure points are.

I think that the reason why StrongerBC was launched in a good way was that everyone felt listened to. Everyone felt that their needs were reflected in the StrongerBC plan. Again, that’s why we were able to see a 99 percent job recovery rate here in B.C. We have a resilient economy, but all the measures that we put together through thoughtful consultation led us to a good place.

Of course, even from there, we had to adjust. As the pandemic changed, we continued to adjust programming. I think it’s important to note for the member that during that period of late March to summer, lots of actions were taken to support businesses, and further supports were put in place when StrongerBC was launched.

[11:35 a.m.]

T. Stone: Well, my question relates to, again, direct supports and direct relief to business, and small business in particular. I’ve asked: was the minister satisfied that having 40 percent of dollars earmarked in the form of direct relief and support for businesses out the door by the end of 2020 — is that’s acceptable or not? He hasn’t answered that. I asked what the heck the delay was for, for the six-month period of time it took from March of 2020 to September of 2020 when StrongerBC was finally announced.

StrongerBC was the moment where the very first direct grant was actually announced by this government. There has been a bit more on that since, but the very first grant that was announced was the small and medium-sized business recovery grant, which was included in September’s StrongerBC strategy. There was no mention of it or launching of it prior to that point, which meant there was no ability for businesses to access it. They didn’t know about it. It didn’t exist.

I’d like to ask the minister this question: if it took six months, from March of 2020 to September of 2020, was the reason that the government didn’t push the StrongerBC plan out the door sooner because the government was holding it back so that it could be pushed out about a week before the Premier decided to call a snap and unnecessary provincial election?

Hon. R. Kahlon: The member was asking about direct supports, and that’s what I answered. All the measures aro­und cutting property taxes, prohibiting commercial evictions, these are direct supports that were for businesses. That’s what was asked.

Now the member has asked about the programs. I did not, maybe, understand in the beginning, but now I know where he is going. He wants to know in the calendar year. I’ll update him on that.

Obviously, he knows the small and medium-sized business recovery grant program continues to be available for businesses. The agritech grants, which I mentioned, are direct supports for businesses: completed. The manufacturing grants continue; that process is ongoing. The launch online supports were available for businesses and still avail­able, because we increased the amount of dollars available.

The mass timber demonstration projects: completed. Supports for agriculture businesses, the food hubs: completed. Increasing B.C. food production and processing: completed. Small farm business acceleration program and the provincial replant program: completed. On-farm innovation top-up program: completed. Restoring Confidence app: completed.

Digitization and industrial land work is ongoing. Destination B.C. tourism recovery strategy is ongoing. The In­digenous tourism and recovery fund is ongoing.

I mean, I can go through all the programs, if the member likes, but the majority of the programs are completed. Many of the programs that are still needed are ongoing. These are direct supports — again, one of the highest per-capita supports in this country for people and businesses. We’re really proud of that.

We debated the CCPA report yesterday. I’m happy to spend all afternoon debating the CCPA report because it’s good news for government. It shows that the supports we’ve put into people and businesses were meaningful — 3 percent of our GDP. Very important investments we’ve made into our people.

That’s reflected in the fact that in the middle of a third wave, we’re at 99 percent of pre-pandemic employment. That’s a positive sign for us, something we all should be proud of. It means the StrongerBC plan was effective in the way it was designed, the consultation process that happened, to ensure that it hit the right metrics for where our stakeholders believed we needed to be.

StrongerBC was a success. It was a success because we took time to listen to all of our stakeholders, and we didn’t wait, as I mentioned to the member, for September. We put supports in immediately, but we put in further supports in September. We continue to add supports as we know the needs arrive.

[11:40 a.m.]

T. Stone: The minister talks about 99 percent pre-pandemic employment levels. The province is at 99 percent, based on a massive increase in the size of the public sector, a very significant drop in the number of private sector jobs from one year ago, a huge increase in part-time jobs, a big decrease in full-time jobs and an underutilization rate of about 10 percent. Meaning, when you take the unemployment rate and you add on all of those folks out there who have literally given up looking for work and you add on the reality that a lot of people in many sectors are getting fewer hours and fewer shifts, you’ve got a heck of a lot of pain still, as reflected in an underutilization rate of about 10 percent.

Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves here, in terms of this 99 percent employment rate based on pre-pandemic levels, when you factor in this massive shift to public sector jobs, this massive shift to part-time jobs and again, an ever-increasing underutilization rate. We’ll dive into all of those numbers a little bit more later.

I want to come back to this concept of direct supports. I want to make sure that the minister understands what I’m referring to here. What I’m referring to here is what any economist out there, anyone engaged in the financial sector, anyone that does any labour market analysis, anyone who knows their way around how to classify different types of supports for business…. When people refer to direct supports, direct relief and direct grants, these are financial supports that are provided to business that don’t have to be repaid. That don’t have to be paid back. It’s cash in the pocket.

A deferral on taxes is not direct relief. Deferred taxes have to be paid back. A loan, whether at zero interest or a low-interest rate, still has to be paid back. The rent subsidies that were provided and the freeze on rent — none of these are permanent and there are still financial obligations that carry into the future for that particular small business.

None of the above — deferrals, loans and so forth — are direct supports. Direct supports are when you put a program on the table like the circuit breaker grant or the small and medium-sized business recovery grant. Again, dollars in pocket that don’t have to be repaid.

Let’s just make sure we’re on the same page here about what direct relief and direct grants are. When we talk about how well British Columbia is doing in the context of the rest of the country, I suppose it’s progress that the minister just referred to British Columbia being among the highest as opposed to saying No. 1. But again, British Columbia is No. 8 when it comes to direct supports, direct relief, direct grants to business in this province.

I want to come back one more time to the minister’s timing here — his comments on the timing of StrongerBC. Again, very simply, very directly, is the reason that the government waited six months, from March 2020 to September of 2020, to push out StrongerBC, which was the first opportunity that direct relief in the form of the small and medium-sized business recovery grant, as an example….?

The first time that direct relief was put on the table for businesses, small businesses in particular, was the six-month delay in pushing that out the door, because the government wanted to keep its powder dry in case the Premier called an election, which he indeed went ahead and did about a week after rolling StrongerBC out the door. If it’s not that explanation, could the minister please provide one?

[11:45 a.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, very proud of the highest per-capita supports for people in businesses that we provided here in British Columbia.

Of course, as I said to the member, we can continue to debate. We have a report that states that we provided significant supports for British Columbians, and the member has a number that he has picked out of the air without any backing. If he has a report that says anything different than that, I’m happy to see that.

But there is a bit of a narrative that’s been coming from the opposition that I want to address, where they frame the value of private sector jobs as more important than public sector jobs. The member will know that during the pandemic, we’ve been hiring teachers, we’ve been hiring care aides, and we’ve been hiring contact tracers. These are good-paying jobs.

I know that there is, certainly, from many members of the opposition — perhaps not this hon. member, but many others — a really negative view of public sector jobs, public sector employees. That was reflected today in question period when the Minister of Finance reminded this House that the single largest layoff of women in B.C.’s history was done under the previous government’s watch. So that frustration towards public sector employees has been clear in the history of the 16 years that they were in government. My mom was one of those workers, so we know as a family what that meant.

I do not understand why we can’t value teachers being hired the same as we do private sector employees, why we can’t value care aides or the important work that contact tracers did during the pandemic. The list goes on. Why is it that we must say that, all of a sudden, their employment means less because it doesn’t compare to a minimum-wage job, say at McDonalds? I just don’t understand that — the framing, the argument, the discussion.

You know, we are seeing 7,000 women who were working in minimum-wage jobs or just slightly above minimum-wage jobs who have gotten an opportunity to work within the health care system — good-paying jobs, family-supporting jobs. We should be proud of that. Taking care of our seniors so that our seniors are well taken care of through this pandemic. We should value those jobs. We shouldn’t talk about how, all of a sudden, a private sector job at a fast-food restaurant somehow has more value in both the wages and all the value in the work that they provide. We’ve been hiring people, ECEs, to provide support for child care.

I take it a little personally when the member raises the difference between the employment, as if, in some way, the employment has less value because they’re working for government. I really appreciate the work that all those folks are doing. I’m proud of the work — anything that helps lift people up, particularly women, women of colour, who have seen opportunity to get higher-paying-wage jobs working within government, better protection as workers. We should all be collectively proud of that.

Now, the member talks about the timelines. He will know, because I’ve already shared this answer with him, that we provided additional supports immediately. These supports were direct to businesses. It was what they were asking for. Then we did a consultation process. We had hundreds of suggestions and recommendations. It was very thorough. Every ministry was involved, assessing where were the pressure points they would be potentially facing, trying to project how the pandemic will impact us, not knowing that the pandemic is going to continually change and our supports will need to change. That process took time.

It’s not like we were the only jurisdiction grappling with this. All the provinces were looking at finding ways to support businesses throughout. Again, our motto here was “How can we keep things going in a safe way?” We kept construction open. We kept a lot of our manufacturing going. We kept a lot of our schools…. I’m so proud of our teachers, our superintendents, our school boards for the work they did — direct impact on the economy.

[11:50 a.m.]

I just wanted to make sure I clarified that so the member knows that on this side of the House, we value the public sector employees. We value the work and, of course, we’re proud of that.

StrongerBC, again, launched in September and hit the mark. It hit the mark because we spent the time to make sure we knew where the challenges were and where the various associations were recommending that we put dollars to. That was reflected in the positive review that we got from it.

The Chair: We’ll take one more question, and then we’ll adjourn, Member.

T. Stone: Well, let me be clear. I think all members of this House value public sector jobs. I certainly do; I know my colleagues do. I don’t question that about any member on the other side.

What I would say, in response to the minister’s answer to my last question, just moments ago: what the heck has the minister got against private sector jobs? Private sector jobs are the ones that actually pay for themselves. Public sector jobs are actually paid for by the taxpayers of British Columbia. It’s private sector jobs that actually power the economy, move the economy forward. It’s a private sector–led jobs recovery that’s absolutely critical for us to have that sustainable, long-term, economic recovery in the province. What has the minister got against that?

I also take issue with his insinuations around minimum-wage jobs and some of his comments, moments ago, about fast-food workers, minimum-wage jobs, and so forth. I don’t understand. Why the blind spot on the im­portance of private sector jobs? We’re down 61,000 private sector jobs from one year ago — 61,100 fewer private sector jobs. That has been partially offset, over this past year, by 35,900 public sector jobs. But the point here is that we cannot have a durable economic recovery without a robust, private sector–led expansion of jobs.

We will get into more detail on that. Again, I want to ask — I’ll keep asking the question until I get an answer — what accounts for the six-month delay in StrongerBC being launched in September of 2020, when all of the dollars were approved, unanimously, by this House in March of 2020? Why did it take six months? Was it because the Premier wanted, and ended up calling, a snap election a week after StrongerBC was announced in September of 2020?

Hon. R. Kahlon: The member spoke about how great minimum-wage jobs are. I’ll tell the member that my mom worked a minimum-wage job. My aunts and my uncles worked minimum-wage jobs. I was raised on a minimum-wage job that my mom worked at. I’ll tell the member that it’s tough for families. I’m not sure what his life experience was, but I can speak about my family and my friends, who were new immigrants to this country and struggled on that.

Not until she got a job where my mom became an HEU member, where she had some rights, until they were taken away from her, did she see an opportunity to help her family rise up. So I won’t be lectured by that member about the value of minimum-wage jobs, unless he can tell me about his life experience where he’s experienced that. I’d love to hear that, because I respect people’s life experiences.

The private sector needed us. The private sector could not deal with the pandemic. We put in additional supports, over $1 billion, to support the private sector so we can maintain employment, maintain people’s livelihoods, ensure that businesses survive through this pandemic. We’re proud of that.

There were some people who say they’re free-marketers — luckily, there are none of them here in the Legislature anymore — who said: “Let the economy fall. They’ll find a way to return themselves. The market will adjust and figure it out.” But we chose the path of ensuring that we supported the private sector.

It’s going to a take a cooperative effort between the pri­vate sector and the public sector to see a strong economic recovery. That has been my focus. It has been the focus of the Premier. It has been the focus of the Minister of Finance. We’re going to continue to do that important work, because that’s the best way for us to have a strong recovery — not one leading, but both working side by side. That has been our model from the beginning. I look forward to talking about this in a lot more detail in the afternoon.

I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:55 a.m.

The House resumed; S. Chandra Herbert in the chair.

Committee of Supply (Section B), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Committee of Supply (Section C), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Hon. S. Robinson moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Deputy Speaker: The House stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.


PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF FORESTS,
LANDS, NATURAL RESOURCE OPERATIONS
AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); P. Alexis in the chair.

The committee met at 11:21 a.m.

On Vote 30: ministry operations, $517,715,000.

The Chair: Minister, do you have any opening remarks?

Hon. K. Conroy: No. Considering the amount of time we have, I think we should just move right into questions. Thank you very much. I’m just really honoured to be here, though.

I did want to introduce my deputy minister, Rick Manwaring. We also have a whole team of staff, as you can imagine, sitting over in the office buildings, waiting to answer questions with us.

I’m looking forward to it.

The Chair: I now recognize the member for Nechako Lakes.

Would you like to make any opening remarks?

J. Rustad: No. I’ll just keep my comments brief as we go.

Maybe I’ll just say that the intentions paper set the stage for a lot of change in forestry. My hope is, through estimates, that we will be able to explore more of what that means. Obviously, there are a lot of issues that are going on in the sector. I’m hoping that we’ll have a good dialogue, and I just also want to thank and recognize the deputy here, as well, of course, as all the folks in the ministry, who I know will be busy beavering from all corners of the province, I’m sure, getting information to the minister.

I want to start this morning, if I could, with B.C. Timber Sales. Before I do that, we might have one adjustment to the schedule I provided to the minister. It depends on what’s happening in the big House in terms of debate on Bill 7. It may have to change where we fit the discussion on the Columbia Basin Trust. Right now it’s currently scheduled to be end of day on Wednesday. If the critic has to be speaking in the House, we may need to shift that either to earlier in the day or move it to Thursday. We’ll just have to play that a little bit by ear. I just want to apologize, because I do try to give the minister an opportunity to be able to make sure you’ve got the appropriate staff available for questions as we go.

I want to start this morning talking about B.C. Timber Sales. As we know, B.C. Timber Sales, of course, is an im­portant piece of our stumpage system of the MPS, as well as providing the volume around the province. Maybe I’ll start with B.C. Timber Sales, particularly on the coast.

[11:25 a.m.]

If the minister could perhaps provide information on the number of blocks that B.C. Timber Sales, or the vol­ume that B.C. Timber Sales puts up on the coast for bid, how many of those blocks have gone no bid, and whether or not that volume that is put up is covering the whole profile of volume within the B.C. Timber Sales quotas.

[11:30 a.m.]

Hon. K. Conroy: Last year B.C. Timber Sales, on the coast, represented the profile of their timber. They had $2.9 million in total volume on the coast. Of that, 16 were no bids, which represents almost 600,000 cubic metres.

Do you want me to…?

J. Rustad: Sorry. What was the number again?

Hon. K. Conroy: So 600,000 cubic metres. For the first time, no sale. Then they resold them by lowering the upset value, and they were all sold.

J. Rustad: Out of the volume on the coast…. So $2.9 million was the total cut that was available to B.C. Timber Sales on the coast, and 600,000 had to be adjusted. So approximately 1/5, I guess, of the volume, roughly, had to be adjusted in terms of price.

What is the undercut? What has the undercut been an­nually, and what is the cumulative undercut within B.C. Timber Sales over the last four years?

Hon. K. Conroy: On the coast or…?

J. Rustad: On the coast.

Hon. K. Conroy: Just on the coast. Okay.

J. Rustad: I’ll focus on the coast for the moment. We’ll get to the Interior in a bit.

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. K. Conroy: Last year on the coast we actually sold 97 percent, so a 3 percent undercut, and we need to get back to you on the four-year accumulation numbers. They’re working that out right now, and we’ll get back to you on that.

J. Rustad: Obviously, the issues around B.C. Timber Sales and the cut and being able to achieve the cut…. I’m glad they were able to achieve that over this past year, which was good. Of course, with markets being where they are, there’s pretty good demand for the wood. There have been years, of course, where the markets are not that good, and there is a significant amount of undercut in those years.

I guess there are two things that come from that, which is how B.C. Timber Sales is as a relation to the renewable cut to the amount of volume that’s being cut in the area whether it’s a larger percentage or more percentage than that roughly…. I’m assuming it’s around 20 percent. It’s a little under that. I think it’s about 18 percent or 17 percent right now — the overall cut on the coast.

I guess the question is: what is the mechanism, or are there any mechanisms in place, for B.C. Timber Sales, where there are undercuts, to be able to either make up that volume or find other ways to have that volume come in to the system?

The minister, in a presentation earlier this week, in an intentions paper, talked about the desire for people to be able to do their full cut, and I’m assuming that applies to B.C. Timber Sales as well, in terms of being able to achieve. So I’m just wondering what mechanisms will be in place to make sure that the cut is being achieved and that it is proportional to the full profile that’s available to B.C. Timber Sales.

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. K. Conroy: Any sort of underperformance spills over to future years in the business cycle, and it’s done on a five-year cycle. The goal is to achieve the cut.

Your second question. If it’s a significant amount of un­dercut, it actually becomes growing stock and becomes part of the new AAC. So we do have mechanisms to resell the volume in the market if the market can take it, if it can be sold. Our arching goal is to get to the point where we can support the market pricing system.

J. Rustad: The 16 blocks that, this past year, went no bid and that were repriced and went back into the market — how did that impact on the stumpage on the coast?

[11:45 a.m.]

Hon. K. Conroy: The 16 blocks were an insignificant amount. They used over 13 years of data on the sales on the coast to determine that. They also did test the market by putting out lower quality timber sales at the bottom end of the profile, as you mentioned. That’s how they were testing that out. It, again, was negligible.

I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:47 a.m.


PROCEEDINGS IN THE
BIRCH ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
AGRICULTURE, FOOD AND FISHERIES

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section C); M. Dykeman in the chair.

The committee met at 11:15 a.m.

On Vote 13: ministry operations, $81,636,000 (continued).

M. de Jong: Two issues to canvass with the minister to­day. One is truly local in nature and I’m hoping will elicit a fairly helpful response from the minister.

The people who organize one of the largest agricultural fairs in British Columbia, the Abbotsford Agrifair, are en­countering all kinds of difficulties trying to ascertain information about what they can and can’t do. Graham Vanstone is the fair manager and has been calling all and sundry — health authorities, the ministry.

They would, of course, like, as part of the restart program, to make plans for a hybrid model fair, as I’m sure many fairs across the province would, but are unable to obtain guidance, assistance, contact from anyone. I’m hoping that the minister and her team today could alert me and them to someone within the ministry that they could liaise with to try to navigate through those challenges.

Hon. L. Popham: Many, many fairs around the province are wondering how they’ll be able to operate. Many are interested in a hybrid model. I think we’re all hoping that something can happen so we can attend. People really want to demonstrate their support for community, and they often do that at agricultural fairs.

[11:20 a.m.]

As far as the Abbotsford fair goes, first off, I believe that one of the larger buildings on site at the fair is being used as a vaccination centre right now. That may be complicating matters. I don’t know.

We haven’t had direct contact by the fair to our ministry that I know of, but there was a meeting that is in the works — being planned. In the meantime, my assistant deputy, Arif Lalani, will reach out and make contact with the fair folks and see if we can try and get some answers.

M. de Jong: I am aware that the fair folks have made attempts to contact the ministry and the minister’s office and the health authority. But the minister has provided the response that I was hoping she would, which is, the designation of someone that they can liaise with.

I didn’t expect, nor do I, for the minister to have all the answers to how this might unfold. But having someone that the agency can work with, as circumstances evolve, is most helpful, and I thank her for that — and the fair, who are, I’m sure, watching this moment, thank her as well and will await that call.

Now, the second issue that I’d like to visit may take a little bit longer, and it relates to something that we were discussing during these estimates last week. It was, as the member recalls, relating to a project that the Carrier-Sek­ani Family Services agency is seeking to construct — a treatment facility, much needed. I will say, again, a project that everyone seems to agree is needed. Everyone seems to agree should proceed. Everyone seems to agree should be accommodated on the site that they have purchased for the purpose of the project.

What we are exploring and have explored is why that’s not happening and why it hasn’t happened. It’s an important matter, I would suggest, because it’s not the only such project.

The minister and I had an exchange over several hours, and candidly, I made certain propositions that she disagre­ed with, one of which was that a great deal of the problem here can be traced back to changes that she, as the minister, and her government have made to the legislation that impacts the mandate that the Agricultural Land Commission is charged with implementing.

The minister — and she’ll, I’m sure, do this again mo­mentarily — disagreed with me fairly pointedly and said that was not so. She made some specific statements. I never think we should be disputing what people said or didn’t say, so I brought a couple of those statements that I’ll ask the Chair to pass along to the minister and ask the minister to confirm that these remain her views today.

Last week, during the exchange, when I posed the question about the ALC’s mandate, I made this statement for the minister to reply to. “The now repealed provision of the act allowed for it, in rendering decisions, to preserve agricultural land and to take into account economic and cultural and social values. That is no longer the case. That’s all I’m trying to establish.” To which the minister replied: “The ALC still has that discretion.”

Later in the exchange — and I’ll read all three of these into the record — in pursuing the same question of whether the amendments that the minister introduced impacted on the mandate and the ability of the ALC to take factors into account that would have assisted them in finding in support of the Carrier-Sekani application, the minister said the following: “…they do have the discretion to look at what the community needs are.”

[11:25 a.m.]

Then, later in the same exchange, in defending the am­endments that she and the government introduced, the minister said: “We gave a reasonable approach — that the Agricultural Land Commission, with their panel, had the discretion to look individually at applications. That’s what they do. Sometimes applications are approved that don’t have anything to do with agriculture. That’s reasonable.”

The minister took great issue with my proposition that the effect of the amendments that her government introduced eliminated, from the Agricultural Land Commission, the opportunity to take into account social and economic considerations. I presume that remains her position today, but I wanted to give her an opportunity to advise the committee whether she has changed her view in any appreciable way on that matter.

Hon. L. Popham: My views are exactly the same.

M. de Jong: I thought they might be. We’ll explore that a little bit. Can I ask the Chair to pass a second document to the minister?

Hon. Chair, I’ve given the minister a document entitled “Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries: Briefing Note,” dated March 18, 2021. Is that a note…? It says: “Briefing Note for Minister for Information.” Can the minister confirm who that briefing note was prepared for?

Hon. L. Popham: It was prepared for me.

M. de Jong: The document appears to have been prepared…. It’s dated March 18, 2021. Can the minister confirm that it was prepared after the Agricultural Land Commission decision of February 26, 2021?

[11:30 a.m.]

Hon. L. Popham: Yes.

M. de Jong: It’s titled “Briefing Note for Minister for Information” yet elsewhere bears a resemblance to what I recall to be a ministerial decision note. In fact, the labelling at the bottom of the document, document 194283MDN, is precisely how I recall ministerial decision notes to have been labelled, MDN meaning “ministerial decision note.”

Was this an information note or a decision note?

[11:35 a.m.]

Hon. L. Popham: This was a briefing note for information.

M. de Jong: If I could ask the minister to look at page 3 of what she’s describing as a briefing note for information. My certainty is it would be the first briefing note for information that listed options seeking a decision. In fact, on page 3, the request is that one of three options be circled for approval. That is hardly consistent with a briefing note for information.

Look, there’s an important issue at stake here: the operations and the relationship between the ALC and the executive branch of government. If the minister is truly asking the committee to take seriously what she has just said, she’s going to have to explain how it is that an information note requires a decision — a note, by the way, that is labelled at the bottom “ministerial decision note.”

[11:40 a.m.]

Hon. L. Popham: In my view, this was an information note, not a decision note.

The Chair: Noting the hour….

M. de Jong: Thanks, hon. Chair. Probably a good time for me to put my next question, and then we can pick it up when we come back.

I will say, first of all, a document requiring a decision from the minister labelled “Ministerial Decision Note” hardly strikes me as a briefing note for information only. But if that is the definition the minister wishes to attach, she can explain that in her own way.

I want to direct her attention to the top of page 2 of the note, under the heading “Discussion.” I will read into the record what the note that was prepared for her says: “The ALC is an independent administrative tribunal. The decision-making framework for the ALC is defined in section 6 of the Agricultural Land Commission Act — see appendix A — and does not include economic and social factors, including First Nations considerations. As such, First Nations considerations are not explicitly part of the ALC mandate.”

[11:45 a.m.]

The passage in this note directly contradicts what the minister has told this committee about the ALC mandate. I put virtually those words and that question to the minister, and as we have just reviewed, she insisted — repeatedly has insisted — that the mandate of the ALC includes those very things that her note says do not exist as an option.

My question for the minister to ponder during the break is: why would she provide information to this committee about the mandate, the statutory mandate, of the ALC that directly contradicts the advice she was receiving at precisely the same time that these events were taking place? In unequivocal terms, the act does not include economic and social factors. Why would she tell this committee exactly the opposite in the face of specific advice that she received?

I’ll await the minister’s answer with great anticipation.

The Chair: As I said previously, noting the hour, I ask the minister to move the motion.

Hon. L. Popham: I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:47 a.m.