2016 Legislative Session: Fifth Session, 40th Parliament
HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

official report of

Debates of the Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Thursday, March 17, 2016

Morning Sitting

Volume 35, Number 8

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print)
ISSN 1499-2175 (Online)

THURSDAY, MARCH 17, 2016

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

[Madame Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Madame Speaker: Good morning, Members. Happy St. Patrick’s Day.

Prayers.

Tributes

MARC TRUDEAU

Hon. R. Coleman: Marc Trudeau has spent eight years chasing us around this Legislature and beyond, hiding behind the camera, for the CBC. Today marks his last day not just here but his last with CBC after 28 years, and 36 years in the television business.

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From Yellowknife to Whitehorse to Vancouver to Victoria, he has been critical in whipping into shape and making CBC reporters look good across the country. However, Marc never did accomplish how he actually would shrink down my fat head and double chin whenever he did an interview with me.

I’m sure he will enjoy some good travelling, some B.C. wine and jazz music in his retirement. He will be missed. He’s a great guy, and we hope, and somewhat pray, that he doesn’t drive his wife, Ceri, too crazy in retirement. Would the House please recognize Marc for his service to this House and to this province.

J. Horgan: On behalf of the official opposition, I want to join with the Minister of Housing in offering our farewell to Marc. It’s rare that you find a camera person that can make you look good, so when one leaves, it’s a bit of a disappointment for me and, I think, for all of us.

Marc truly is a gentleman and one of the good guys in the press gallery — with the greatest of respect, of course, to those who remain, who I have the utmost admiration for. Marc is one of the good guys. If any members want to know where you can find the best pastry and the best coffee in Victoria, right around Vancouver Island and, as the minister said, virtually across British Columbia, Marc’s your guy.

Would the House please, please join me and the Minister of Natural Gas and Housing in saying that it’s a shame that the best camera person in the place is going on to his retirement, but we all wish him very, very well.

Introductions by Members

Hon. S. Cadieux: I have two introductions — well, four, but five, but two — for the House this morning. Firstly, I’d like to introduce baby Kennedy May Lalari to the House this morning. She’s joined by her mom and dad, Selena and Terry. Terry Lalari is my chief of staff, and after today, after ten years in the building, he’ll be leaving us for a new opportunity. First, will the House please join Terry, Selena and baby Kennedy.

Secondly, today in the House is one of my best friends, a nurse, for me a mentor and, most importantly, the lady I call mom. Patricia Homewood is in the House, and she has brought along my niece, a very bright young thing, who at this point in time, plans to be a scientist, which of course, I fully support and endorse. With her is Ellison Kehler, my niece.

J. Horgan: I, too, have a number of introductions today. Joining us in the gallery from my constituency in Juan de Fuca is Rylan Kurvers and his grandmother Norma Warda. Rylan came here with his Millstream Elementary class a couple of months ago. Ever since then, he’s wanted to come back and watch question period. I’m concerned about that, but nonetheless, he’ll be here to join us.

Rylan is on the Juan de Fuca Vipers soccer team — under-11 boys team — and they have not lost a game this season, and that’s, of course, in the fine Juan de Fuca tradition. Would the House please make both of them very, very welcome.

I also have another introduction. I’m going to ask the members to please be kind today, because joining us in the gallery is my gooder son Evan’s girlfriend, Veronica Vander Hoeven. She is joined by her two parents, Eric and Antoinette Vander Hoeven, from Aurora, Ontario. This is my first opportunity to meet them. I’ve been on the road. Nice to see you.

Again, would the House please make Veronica, Eric and Antoinette very, very welcome.

Hon. T. Lake: I have a couple of introductions today. Erika McCormick is an administrative assistant in my office for the last six months. We all know what great work and how helpful our staff are in our ministerial offices. Would the House please make Erika welcome to her first visit to question period.

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I’m really happy today to have with us Carol Mackay and her parents, Lorne and Kay Burke. Carol and her husband, Don, have been friends of our family for many, many years, among our closest friends. Our three daughters each have grown up together playing soccer — Carol’s daughters, Paige, Blair and Brett, two of whom are now nurses. Their grandmother, Kay, is a retired nurse.

We’ve gone through interesting times, as you do, with your kids growing up. We have been there when new
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dogs have come home, when dogs have passed away, when our kids have gone to school and when our kids have been in trouble in school. I just want to recognize Carol and her lovely family and welcome them to the Legislature here today.

G. Holman: It’s my pleasure today to introduce Katrina Jones, a grade 12 student from Stelly’s Secondary School in my constituency, and her mom, Arlene. Katrina just received the Outstanding Youth Volunteer award in this year’s Hearts of the Community Awards, which is proudly supported by the local Peninsula News Review and the Beacon Community Services.

Katrina judges 4-H events at the Saanich Fairgrounds. She’s president of the Saanich Lamb Club. She visits patients at the Peninsula Hospital, and she also volunteers with the Queer Straight Alliance at Stelly’s, a group dedicated to promoting safe spaces for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender youth, and also works with her school to help to raise awareness of mental health issues.

Katrina plans to attend the University of King’s College. Would the House please welcome Katrina and her mom to the House today.

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: Today I’d like to introduce Dean and Lorna Ross, as well as Janet and Duncan, who are joining them. I’m told that Dean is no Olympian, but he is a talented second-line, beer-league hockey player, and Lorna makes a delicious fruitcake. Would the House please make them all feel very welcome.

Hon. P. Fassbender: I’ve got the pleasure today to introduce two constituents of mine, Gerry and Virginia Barteluk. Gerry is a former president of the B.C. and Yukon Hotels Association. I understand from Virginia that he’s enjoying a well-deserved retirement, although her work has increased since he’s been retired. Virginia has an amazing talent and career in teaching music to children and is well known for her work with children’s choirs and handbell groups.

Would the House join me in making them feel very welcome.

B. Routley: Today I’ve had the pleasure of touring around a group from the Cowichan Valley. Bailey, who is only six years old, was outside getting her picture taken a week or two ago and thought that it would be great to tour the legislative building. She is the niece of Debra Toporowski. Debra is here today. She’s my constituency assistant.

We’re also very proud of the fact that Debra is now a two-term Cowichan Tribes councillor, well regarded by one of the largest…. Cowichan Tribes is one of the largest bands in British Columbia. Her sister Linda Wong is also here with her two children. James, her son, is in his second year working towards his Red Seal trade. As I said, Bailey, who is six years old, is here.

I should warn Bailey that sometimes we bang our desks here at the Legislature, just to show our interest in what someone is saying or doing. Please don’t be afraid. We think that it’s all very routine and even a little educational, maybe even fun.

Please join me in welcoming these fine guests.

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Hon. S. Thomson: Joining us in the member’s gallery this morning from Ottawa is the High Commissioner of Ghana to Canada, His Excellency Dr. Sulley Gariba. He’s accompanied by his wife, Mrs. Neo Gariba, and Mrs. Florence Akonor, the minister at the Ghana high commission. I will have the pleasure of meeting with His Excellency later this morning to discuss a number of topics, including resource management and possible linkages to the forestry and natural resource sectors of Ghana and British Columbia.

I’d ask the House to please extend His Excellency and his delegation a warm welcome to Victoria and to the Legislature today.

Statements

COMMUNITY SOCIAL SERVICES

M. Mungall: Well, we all know in this House that it is Community Social Services Awareness Month. Every single one of us has some amazing community social service organizations in our communities — whether it’s early childhood education, child care, employment training, supporting women fleeing violence. Whatever it is, community social service organizations play an important, integral part in our community.

I’m asking the House to please join me in saying a huge, huge thank you to all the people who give of their time and of their wallets to make these organizations so great in our communities.

Introductions by Members

Hon. M. Morris: Joining us in the House today is Bill Reid, the director and president of the B.C. Association of Police Boards and a member of the Nelson police board, as well as Roxanne Helme, the treasurer and director of the B.C. Association of Police Boards and a member of the Victoria and Esquimalt police board. Will the House please join me in welcoming these people to the House.

Hon. S. Anton: We have a longtime friend of mine in the precinct today. He’s an active and strong supporter of the government’s agenda of a strong economy and a secure tomorrow. I think it’s safe to say he loves politics, which is why he’s been a friend of mine for many years.

His day job is in the trenches as the coordinator of the Coalition of B.C. Businesses. He also serves as director
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of communications and corporate relations for Scouts Canada, Pacific region. Yes, I have gone to a number of their events over the years. Thank you, George. If you’re looking for him on November 11, you can be sure he is supporting his local Legion, as I think he does the rest of the year as well.

Please join me in welcoming George Higgins, his wife Justine and their son Logan. And congratulations to Logan. He’s attending his first question period. He’s a champion sailor in the optimist class and a proud sixth-grader at West Point Grey Academy in Vancouver.

S. Hamilton: Well, top of the morning to you, Madame Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to rise on this auspicious day, being St. Patrick’s Day. I’d like to take this opportunity…. I just noticed that sitting in the gallery now is my legislative assistant, and I don’t think you can get much more green than the name of Kadagn. Could I please introduce my legislative assistant. Can we make welcome Kadagn Klepsch.

J. Sturdy: I have the pleasure of a guest in the Legislature this morning. My oldest daughter, Emma Sturdy, is taking advantage of spring break at BCIT, where she is in the school of business completing the business marketing management entrepreneurship program. Emma has been building on the skills that she developed as our family’s farmers market manager at the Whistler Farmers Market, where she also sits as a director. She’s involved in too many ventures and activities to list here, although I will mention that she did sit in this House before I did, as a member of the B.C. Youth Parliament.

As was mentioned by the member from Delta, joining her in the gallery is our indefatigable LA, Kadagn Klepsch. Will the House join me in making them both feel welcome.

Introduction and
First Reading of Bills

BILL M209 — SPECULATOR TRACKING AND
HOUSING AFFORDABILITY FUND ACT, 2016

J. Horgan presented a bill intituled Speculator Tracking and Housing Affordability Fund Act, 2016.

J. Horgan: I move that a bill intituled Speculator Tracking and Housing Affordability Fund Act, 2016, of which notice has been given in my name, be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

J. Horgan: The Speculator Tracking and Housing Affordability Fund Act directly addresses the crisis of housing affordability in this province and would alleviate the financial strain that paying for housing puts on many British Columbia families, especially in the Lower Mainland. The bill takes a number of steps to improve affordability, while providing exemptions for long-term homeowners.

It would require property owners who do not pay income tax to pay a small 2 percent levy, and the proceeds of this levy would be used to establish a housing affordability fund to benefit the entire community. This would be used exclusively for funding housing affordability initiatives in the local areas where the funds are collected.

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The tax will not affect residents who pay income tax, rent their homes, have lived in their homes for five years or more, or seniors who are downsizing.

The act also provides an incentive for absentee homeowners to rent their homes rather than letting them sit vacant, which will lead to an increasing rental stock for people who need it. This is in addition to increasing the availability of affordable housing through the proceeds of this fund.

This bill takes concrete steps towards guaranteeing that everyone can afford a home, even in Vancouver, where this has been more challenging for young people and employers, allowing it to remain the vibrant city that we want it to be.

I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M209, Speculator Tracking and Housing Affordability Fund Act, 2016, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M210 — PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX
FAIRNESS ACT, 2016

J. Horgan presented a bill intituled Property Transfer Tax Fairness Act, 2016.

J. Horgan: I move that a bill, intituled Property Transfer Tax Fairness Act, 2016, of which notice has been given in my name, be introduced and read a first time now.

Motion approved.

J. Horgan: British Columbians have been dismayed to learn over the past few weeks that loopholes exist which allow some unscrupulous individuals to evade paying property transfer taxes, taxes that law-abiding citizens have been paying for years. Yet the government fails to close that loophole.

The scope and scale of these illegitimate practices is not known, but the creation of a grey market through
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so-called shadow flipping, misuse of trusts and possibly even money laundering is denying legitimate sellers a fair price and is also costing the provincial government tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenue.

This act would close two loopholes currently eroding housing affordability in our province. The first amendment would prevent shadow flipping by requiring that property transfer tax be paid when the agreement of sale is assigned, even if the assignment is not registered with the land registry. The second aspect of this bill would prevent the practice of redirecting the benefits of a trust to avoid the actual property transfer tax from occurring.

The closing of these loopholes would make the real estate market fairer and, by extension, more affordable for everyone, especially in the Lower Mainland.

I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M210, Property Transfer Tax Fairness Act, 2016, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Deputy Clerk: Statements by members.

Madame Speaker: And I am trusting they’ll all be two minutes today.

Statements
(Standing Order 25B)

RIVERVIEW ARBORETUM AND GARDENS

S. Robinson: John Davidson, B.C.’s first provincial botanist, established western Canada’s first botanical garden and arboretum on the Essondale grounds in 1911. Over the next few years, the special garden and arboretum became a special collection of trees from all the world’s temperate zones and was used as a nursery to produce trees and shrubs for B.C. government properties, including for the legislative grounds right here in Victoria.

Even though the botanical garden was technically moved to the current UBC site in 1916, others carried on building the tree collection. At the time, Essondale was spread out over 1,000 acres and, over the years, has been whittled down to a mere 244 acres.

The site is currently known as Riverview and has an estimated 1,900 trees, including at least 163 species and 113 varieties. Apart from their stunning beauty, the trees are also a valuable gene pool. A recent assessment put the trees’ individual worth at over $50 million. But as a collection, the arboretum is worth far more than that. Many people consider the tree collection an integral part of the Riverview lands heritage, given that it is British Columbia’s first arboretum.

To celebrate this outstanding collection of trees, the Riverview Horticultural Society is starting their regular tree tours this Sunday, March 20 at 1 p.m. It’s a two-hour walk led by a volunteer arborist, and I invite everyone to come out and tour the trees.

While you’re there, be sure to get in a visit of Finnie’s Garden, which is my favourite place in Riverview. Finnie’s Garden was started by nurse Art Finnie on April 18, 1951, when he was asked to start a therapeutic garden with some patients, and soon it became known as Finnie’s Garden.

Today, volunteers led by Norma and Don Gillespie meet every Sunday and Thursday to take care of Finnie’s Garden. They cut back the overgrowth, replant, and build fences, gates and arbours to promote the beauty and the serenity that is Finnie’s.

I invite all members of the House to join me in thanking Norma and Don Gillespie and their volunteers for the tireless work they do in making sure we have the opportunity to admire, appreciate and protect this magnificent collection of trees and gardens.

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RECOGNITION OF WEYERHAEUSER
FOR ETHICAL BUSINESS PRACTICES

J. Tegart: One of the largest employers in the town of Princeton has just been named one of the world’s most ethical companies. Weyerhaeuser is a forestry company that operates mills throughout Canada and the United States, employing around 13,000 people. This is the seventh year in a row that Weyerhaeuser has received this distinction from the Ethisphere Institute, which recognizes organizations that demonstrate leadership in citizenship, integrity and transparency.

The Ethisphere list featured 131 companies across more than 45 industries. Weyerhaeuser was one of only two companies that was recognized in the forest, paper and packaging category.

Weyerhaeuser holds itself to the highest standard of integrity, striving to always do the right thing the right way for the right reasons. In particular, the company aims to do right by its employees, its clients, the environment and the communities in which it operates.

Weyerhaeuser is committed to creating an effective and engaged workforce by providing its employees with the opportunity to develop and grow in their careers. The company stresses the importance of providing excellence to its customers by delivering quality products at the lowest possible cost.

Weyerhaeuser is also devoted to balancing the needs of today with the needs of tomorrow. It manages resources carefully in order to ensure sustainability and a prosperous future.

Finally, the company is dedicated to giving back to its operating communities, such as Princeton, through philanthropy and volunteer initiatives.
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Congratulations to Weyerhaeuser for its recent distinction and to all of those employees in Princeton who work so hard to keep forestry healthy in British Columbia. Thank you very much, and congratulations again.

KING GEORGE DRAGONS BASKETBALL TEAM

S. Chandra Herbert: Well, when you think of the West End, you often think of tall apartment buildings, dense urban living, festivals, great beaches, great people, the fight for human rights. The list goes on. But did you know that we are also home to dragons? Yes, indeed, all of us have a little dragon in us, and this year, some of our dragons roared.

During Vancouver’s senior boys high school basketball season, our Dragons — our King George Dragons — dominated the season, winning 27 games and only losing five. They went on to beat Windermere 77-69 to become Vancouver’s city champions.

I’d like to congratulate all of the players for their incredible hard work. I’d also like to congratulate and thank the great volunteer coaching team made up of head coach and King George alumni, Darko Kulic, West End Community Centre’s Randy Chan, King George high’s Hanif Karmali and Kits resident Roger McBride.

The Dragons did it as a team and demonstrated that you do more when you work together. As one player put it: “The teamwork made it feel like a family.”

Just as important as the discipline and focus on the game is our King George Dragons team’s focus on the community. On any given day, you can find our Dragons volunteering in the West End Community Centre, helping youth, helping kids, helping seniors and, of course, at King George high itself.

Soon they’ll be partnering up with Lord Roberts Elementary to make little Dragons, helping the kids learn how to play basketball, helping them learn how to be a team.

The King George Dragons are a team that make us all proud. I’d like to thank the coaches, the teachers, family members, friends and everybody who volunteered to make them the best in the city. We have high hopes for next year. First we take Vancouver; then we take B.C. Go, Dragons, go.

TECHNOLOGY SKILLS APPRECIATION WEEK

G. Kyllo: Developing and maintaining a highly skilled technology workforce is vital to our province’s economic prosperity. The skills-training system in B.C. is innovative and flexible, satisfying the need for our province’s diversified economy. Attracting, retaining and developing the required technology skills would allow the province to grow and flourish.

March 21 to 25 is Technology Skills Appreciation Week in B.C. This proclamation was designed at the request of two important organizations — the Applied Science Technologists and Technicians of B.C. and the Canadian Home Builders Association of B.C. to aid in their public awareness initiatives and to celebrate technology skills throughout the province.

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The Applied Science Technologists and Technicians of B.C. play a very important role in maintaining, improving and increasing the knowledge, ability and competence of our province’s technologists and technicians. They are responsible for regulating the standards of training and practice for their members to protect the interests of the public.

For its part, the Canadian Home Builders Association of B.C. sought special recognition of the application of technology in the built environment and joined with the applied science technologists and technicians in this initiative.

Technology Skills Appreciation Week is designed to recognize the contributions of employers who hire and support workers engaged in the use of technology, creating more training partnerships between employers, employees and training providers and increasing employment opportunities for our youth, aboriginal people and women in the fields where technology is applied.

The official proclamation event of Technology Skills Appreciation Week is taking place today at the Legislature, where visitors can learn more about technology-based careers. I urge everyone here to spread the word about the use of technology and the exciting career opportunities that follow.

BEAUMONT STUDIOS

G. Heyman: A year ago, I was pleased to tell this House about an artist space in Vancouver-Fairview that hosted a remarkable exhibit. When the Beaumont Studios Artist Society invited me to join them in welcoming Juss Kaur to Vancouver, they had only recently acquired additional room. Over the past year, Jude Kusnierz, the founder of the society, has been working hard, transforming a former warehouse into a multidisciplinary space with room for musicians, painters, photographers and performers to create and exchange ideas. There is a multifunction gallery and performance area that is open to the public, a great addition to the community.

Jude always wanted a space where she and other artists could work independently but in a setting that would foster mutual collaboration and creativity. She imagined a venue where the public could attend and also participate in art workshops. Their mission is clear. They say: “The Beaumont Studios Artist Society is designed to inspire and engage artists, designers and creative small business owners with space, events and opportunities to work together, play together, share, learn, create and produce art and artistic projects and engage with the community around it.”
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My constituency office found just the right local print for our holiday cards in the work of a Beaumont resident artist, Laura Zerebeski. Laura takes the landscapes we see every day and imbues them with the character of the people who live and work there.

Jude says it’s difficult to describe the energy at Beaumont events because it’s like a unicorn: you have to be there to experience it. The Beaumont is a Vancouver-Fairview treasure that helps us appreciate and support the artistic creativity and artists that enrich our lives. I look forward to an evening of open studios and a stage extravaganza at the grand opening of the studio’s expanded space on March 24. Locals won’t want to miss this unicorn sighting.

MAPLE RIDGE, PITT MEADOWS, KATZIE
SENIORS NETWORK

M. Dalton: I’d like to talk about an important organization in my area. It’s the Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Katzie Seniors Network, a key association that strives to improve the health and well-being of seniors in our communities.

The seniors network is composed of representatives from charitable organizations and service providers such as the Begin Again widows support group, the Golden Ears wellness clinic, Safe Care Home Support, the Ridge Meadows Seniors Society, the Friends In Need Food Bank, and the age-friendly advisory committee and community services, just to name a few.

The network is also supported by aboriginal representatives, council members and the province, through the MLA for Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows and myself or our constituency assistants, as well as individuals from the community who share a common goal of improving the lives of seniors in Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows and the Katzie First Nation.

The primary focus of the seniors network is on strengthening the availability and quality of local services, programs and resources for seniors. It strives to develop a seamless approach to seniors service delivery by identifying gaps, avoiding duplication of programs, and planning for the implementation of new services that will benefit seniors.

The seniors network does excellent work connecting seniors with services and programs in our communities. One of its major initiatives is the publication and distribution of the seniors resource guide, which lists important information such as dental and medical clinics, financial services, health and wellness programs, housing for seniors, transportation services and more.

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I would especially like to thank Heather Treleaven for all her hard work coordinating the seniors network, and I would like to thank all the individuals and organizations involved in this network for their dedication to improving the well-being of our seniors in Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows and the Katzie First Nation.

Oral Questions

HOUSING AFFORDABILITY
IN LOWER MAINLAND

J. Horgan: Last night in Vancouver, 800 people packed a hall to talk about the biggest crisis in the Lower Mainland, housing affordability.

Representatives from the opposition were there. Representatives from Burnaby city council, representatives from Vancouver city council, the superintendent of real estate were there.

This is a complex issue. Everyone understands that, but there are solutions. Person after person who came to the microphone to talk about those solutions was appealing to all of us to find common ground so that we can get to a place where affordability is not the number one issue in the housing market in Vancouver.

Yet what was missing last night was any representation from the government, any representation from the B.C. Liberal party.

My question to the Minister of Housing is this. Will he stop burying his head in the sand, will he stop ignoring the crisis that’s afflicting the people in the Lower Mainland, and will he take some action today to alleviate housing affordability challenges in the Lower Mainland?

Hon. R. Coleman: The member knows that we’ve made some changes to the property transfer tax in the budget we just did, trying to drive down some affordability on the taxation piece of housing.

He also knows this is a pretty broad subject and requires a lot of work. The work is in various areas. First of all, we’d like to have more rental housing in the marketplace for ten years. The Ministers of Housing across the country have continuously gone to federal governments and said, “Would you bring in some tax incentives to encourage rental housing being built across Canada?” — not just in Vancouver or British Columbia.

I’ve often welcomed, in my estimates debate, the members opposite to also write to the federal government. We’ll continue to do that going into June, when we have a national meeting of Housing ministers with the federal minister.

In addition to that, there are all kinds of issues that actually affect affordability in housing, and they all need to come out to be dealt with.

By the way, I welcomed the meeting you had last night. Unfortunately, we were actually tied up last night, but we did have people there observing and taking notes.

Interjections.
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Hon. R. Coleman: Hey, you guys know how this place works. You know when meetings take place, and you know when caucuses meet. If you don’t like the fact that we have to do other things as well and you want to bring that into the public fore, then the next time you have a caucus meeting, tell people you can’t be somewhere. We have other responsibilities sometimes in this House. That’s why we send people to listen, take notes and bring back the information.

But what I didn’t see last night were the real issues that face the affordability in housing. First of all, in the city of Vancouver, they need to learn about density….

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

Hon. R. Coleman: They need to learn about increased density. They only have to look to Burnaby.

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Vancouver–West End.

The Chair will hear the question.

Hon. R. Coleman: We’ll get to that in a minute, Madame Speaker.

There’s density. There are community charges that are put on buildings and construction, the time it takes to get a building permit, a development permit. All of that work is just costing money that actually goes to the consumer in housing. So we have to work together to make sure that piece of affordability comes.

In addition to it, we can look at how we densify, how we can add things that are mortgage-helpers to housing, like they’ve done in Surrey with regards to coach houses and basement suites and how you can get affordability in rentals by actually using the density of the market to do it.

As we come through that, we’re going to continue to deal with the other issues in and around shadow flipping, and those things that are already in process to get done, and we’ll continue to do that.

Madame Speaker: The Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental.

J. Horgan: Perhaps it’s better that the minister wasn’t there last night, because people weren’t looking for excuses. They were looking for accountability. Perhaps it’s better that the minister wasn’t there last night, because people were looking for cooperation, not pointing the finger at the federal government for inaction and blaming communities for not being able to address the challenges that they’re facing every single day.

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The minister’s been in charge of this file for 15 years — 15 years. [Applause.] The result of that 15 years of work is applause from the trained seals who didn’t have the jam to show up and be accountable last night in Vancouver.

We have a crisis. We have a crisis in housing in the Lower Mainland. This morning I proposed two modest solutions….

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Leader.

Please continue.

J. Horgan: This morning I proposed two modest solutions — one that would put the burden on absentee owners to pay a little bit more so that people who want to live and work in Vancouver can afford to do so.

My question to the Minister of Housing. After 15 years of ignoring the problem in Vancouver and the Lower Mainland, will he take a modest step today and join with me and support taxing those who are using Vancouver as a safe-deposit box, not a place to live and grow and raise their families?

Hon. R. Coleman: First of all, nobody is blaming anybody, but there are levels of government and opportunities to try and drive affordability, and they do include not just us but other levels of government and communities involved. If you don’t want to tell the people at your 800-person meeting last night, that’s entirely up to you.

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

Hon. R. Coleman: You want to talk about accountability? Last night you were giving out cards so people could write me. I welcome that, because I’d like to write them back and tell them a few things. The first thing I want to tell them is this. There are 30,000 households and families in British Columbia every month who get a cheque from the province of British Columbia for the affordability of their rent in the marketplace. Then I want to have them ask the opposition…

Interjection.

Madame Speaker: Surrey-Newton.

Hon. R. Coleman: …this question: “What are you going to do if the NDP, should they ever become government, cancel the rental assistance program,” which they don’t support, “and those 30,000 people are out on the streets of British Columbia without that subsidy every month?” Because you want to take away their affordability.

Interjections.
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Madame Speaker: I’ll take this moment to remind all members that the Chair will hear the questions and the answers.

D. Eby: When the Royal Bank of Canada called Metro Vancouver’s housing market “dangerous and astounding,” our Finance Minister responded by describing the housing market as follows: “It’s unusual. There are implications for people looking to get into the housing market.”

Well, he doesn’t have to tell Jennifer Lloyd that there are implications. Yesterday at our town hall, Jennifer told the story of her family. She and her husband are both PhDs, working full-time. The biggest home they can afford is so cramped that a child is sleeping in the master bathroom. She says she wants the government to tackle the issue of international money and speculative money in our housing market, driving prices out of reach of families that actually live and work in the Lower Mainland.

Will the Housing Minister support a tax on this money in our housing market so families like Jennifer’s get a fair shot?

Hon. R. Coleman: I know the frustration for people, particularly in certain areas of Vancouver, on affordability, and I can understand their frustration because when I moved to the Lower Mainland in 1984, I couldn’t afford to buy in Vancouver. Not everybody can. That’s not to blame on anything, but there’s a micro-market there, particularly in one area of Vancouver where there’s housing that is attractive to investors and people that live there long term.

I do actually believe we need to collect the data, so we’ve made that move already — to collect the data on who is buying, where they’re from, whether they’re a landed immigrant or they’re a citizen of the country. And it’s not what country they’re from and where they’re coming from.

We’re going to collect that data so we can actually do the work that some of the members opposite would like us to do with regards to identifying these opportunities to find solutions in the housing market. We’re going to continue to do that, because rather than just say everybody is coming from another country to buy the house, I thought maybe we might want to find out the data for sure.

Now the Minister of Finance has done that. That work is going on. That will be put in place on all new purchases of homes in British Columbia so that information can be collected. We will then track that. We will also look at the issues in and around aspects of when a house is sold and in what period of time it sold at.

[1045]

I really think the members opposite should thank the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head, because your two private member’s bills are basically what he has done already.

Madame Speaker: Vancouver–Point Grey on a supplemental.

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members. This House will come to order.

Please continue.

D. Eby: I do thank the member for Oak Bay–Gordon Head because it shows the unanimity of everyone except for this government that something needs to be done about the housing market. Why does everyone except this minister get that something needs to be done?

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members. Ministers.

D. Eby: Now, I want to tell the minister about another person who lives in this micro-area called the Lower Mainland. Justin Fung is a successful software engineer. His family earns well above the median income in Vancouver. They live in a condo so small that he and his wife can’t watch TV without waking up their youngest daughter. They watch Netflix on their phones instead.

Now, Justin is a member of the new economy…

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

D. Eby: …in the Lower Mainland. He can work anywhere in the world, but he chooses to stay in Vancouver for now. He has a very straightforward request for this government: tax the international speculative money in our housing market so he and his family can actually stay in the city they want to live in to help build the tech economy.

Now, one more time to the minister: will he tax the speculative money in our housing market so that Justin and his family and the tech workers who are building the economy of the future get to stay in the Lower Mainland and help build our provincial economy?

Hon. R. Coleman: All of that work is actually being done. The Finance Minister has already told this House that that’s being done. The Ministry of Finance is looking at all of those opportunities with regards to housing, with regards to issues where taxes could be avoided. That’s the issue that was contained in some of the comments earlier as well as the other stuff. That’s all being done, and we’ll continue to do that.

At the same time, we’re going to sit down with municipalities, and we’re going to talk about how we can improve the accountability relative to the cost and time it takes to build a home.
[ Page 11605 ]

The estimate is that on the Lower Mainland of British Columbia, that cost is between $100,000 and $200,000 per house — charges and taxes and community amenity charges on it — before a shovel actually goes in the ground. Then you add in the time. Some cities take at least five years for you to go through zoning. That time is money that goes to the consumer. It’s density that doesn’t get done and housing that doesn’t get built. You need to actually have the people at the table. It’s not just about pointing fingers.

But I would say to the member opposite one thing.

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

Hon. R. Coleman: I’d say one thing to the member opposite. I welcome the fact you’re giving out cards to actually write or call me as the Minister Responsible for Housing in British Columbia. I look forward to that. But there’s one thing that I didn’t see you giving out, and I think you should have. Readily available through B.C. Housing are brochures that tell people who don’t have the income to try and pursue an opportunity of ownership…. They could give them out a brochure on rent assistance so they could actually apply to get a cheque every month to help them with their rent to live in the city of Vancouver.

M. Mark: Shantal Bateham bravely shared her story with the hundreds of people gathered last night. She’s 19 years old, living with a disability. She’s in a wheelchair as a survivor of cancer. She’s on the verge of homelessness because she can’t find a place to live. She’s nearing the end of a six-month stay in transition housing and has nowhere to go next. She can’t find an apartment she can afford on disability, let alone one that is wheelchair-accessible. Now Shantal is packing a box, getting ready to move to a homeless shelter. She’s out of options.

Will the Housing Minister commit to helping Shantal and make sure she doesn’t end up on the streets because of this government’s failure to provide housing affordability?

[1050]

Hon. R. Coleman: The individual this person describes isn’t covered by any of the issues that the member brought up with regards to affordability and housing. They didn’t bring it up.

Now, the members opposite, a number of them, know, across that House, that if they have an issue with somebody that’s in dire straits within their community — and I recognize that the member is new to this House — they can bring that file to the minister any time they want…

Interjection.

Madame Speaker: Member for Vancouver–Point Grey.

Hon. R. Coleman: …and they will tell you, if they want to tell you, that 99 percent of the time, we react and try and solve an issue like that, on behalf of someone in your community, because that’s what we do.

You only have to look at the closing comments of the now Member of Parliament Jenny Kwan when she last spoke in this House, complimenting me on how many files we’d actually solved for her over the years.

The other thing, hon. Member, I find a little rich is that there’s no place in the province of British Columbia that’s had a larger investment in housing than Vancouver–Mount Pleasant. There have been 24 buildings bought there, renovated and saved for the marketplace. There are over 2,000 new units built there, and there’s been $3.5 billion spent on housing in just the last ten years in British Columbia to help those people just like that member describes.

REVIEW OF TOLLING POLICY
FOR LOWER MAINLAND

V. Huntington: I’ve asked the Minister of Transportation once before to get on with this tolling review, and it’s not just me who’s asking. It’s the mayors of Metro Vancouver. It’s the B.C. Trucking Association. It’s the Surrey Board of Trade, among many others. Yet this week the minister said that there’s plenty of time ahead, and then he proceeded to push the timeline five to six years down the road.

It’s fairly obvious he didn’t hear the CEO for the Surrey Board of Trade say: “What we’re telling the province is to start the dialogue immediately. We can’t wait.” She added that the regional planning for tolling is desperately needed. My question to the minister is: what is his problem? Why is he holding up this review?

Hon. T. Stone: Thank you very much to the member for Delta South for the question. There is a vibrant debate that is taking place across the Lower Mainland with respect to tolling and mobility pricing and, generally, a discussion around: what is it going to look like in the Lower Mainland in terms of the region coming to the table to invest the regions’ share…

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

Hon. T. Stone: …in the critical infrastructure that will be needed in the decades ahead.

We have said consistently that once a decision around tolling was made on the George Massey Tunnel, and if the mayors of Metro Vancouver were to make a decision definitively to move forward with a tolled replacement of
[ Page 11606 ]
the Pattullo Bridge, then, yes, there would be a need to take a look at the provincial tolling policy as it currently exists. But let’s be clear. The mayors have not made a definitive decision about the Pattullo Bridge.

Furthermore, both of these two new structures, if indeed the mayors move forward with the Pattullo replacement, the George Massey replacement and the Pattullo would not be actually built and, potentially, tolled for another five to six years. There is plenty of time in this for all stakeholders of Metro Vancouver — the Mayors Council, the province, a variety of other organizations — to engage in a debate, a discussion, about the long term. That is a discussion and a debate that we welcome.

Madame Speaker: The member for Delta South on a supplemental.

V. Huntington: The problem is that the minister is the only one that thinks there’s plenty of time. People are trying to get this discussion underway now. The minister promised a tolling review in 2013, and he also said then that he was very concerned about the “fairness and equity for the hard-working people south of the Fraser.”

[1055]

I’ve suggested before that to make tolling fair, there has to be reduced fare on all the bridges. This week Delta suggested a buck-a-bridge option — a dollar a crossing on 12 Lower Mainland bridges. The system could reduce toll costs for commuters south of the Fraser by over $1,000 a year and still raise hundreds of millions of dollars for the infrastructure in this province.

We need the provincial leadership on this issue right now. Will the minister start the conversation today with Metro Vancouver mayors, truckers, TransLink and the public about a new regional tolling policy for the Lower Mainland?

Hon. T. Stone: Well, what the folks of Metro Vancouver really want us to get on with is the construction of a replacement for the George Massey Tunnel. We are certainly committed to that. We are committed to the 8,000 jobs that that project will create.

We are committed to reducing, in a dramatic fashion, the greenhouse gas emissions as a result of all of that idling going away and that congestion being eliminated with the new bridge. We’re keen to get on with this project, which will provide the opportunities for rapid transit and tying in with cycling networks and fundamentally reducing the commute times of 80,000-plus commuters, who use this existing crossing every day.

It would be nice if the member for Delta South, if the members of the opposition and if a good number of the mayors in the region would stop throwing every obstacle that they can in front of what will be a critically important piece of infrastructure that we are very proud, in government, to be moving forward with expeditiously.

YOUTH DEATH CASES AND
IMPLEMENTATION OF
REPORT RECOMMENDATIONS

D. Donaldson: We have another situation of the unexpected death of an aboriginal girl formerly involved with the Ministry of Children and Family Development. Patricia Evoy died shortly after turning 19. Michael Houliston, a friend of Patricia’s said: “We need this to stop. I don’t want to see my friends dying in this way.”

The Representative for Children and Youth spoke specifically to this in Paige’s Story, released ten months ago, calling for an annual public report on cases of unexpected deaths with the goal to protect aboriginal girls and women, like Patricia Evoy, from the pathways Paige experienced.

The first annual report was to be completed December 31 of last year. To the minister: why is the report delayed? Where is the report?

Hon. S. Cadieux: Any death of a youth is a tragedy. We know that. The death of Paige, which was very thoroughly investigated by the representative and reported on and which we’ve had many discussions about in this House, was tragic. Changes to the system were made as a result.

We instituted a rapid response team model in the Downtown Eastside. We did that over and above the recommendations of the representative because I recognized that there was a need to better and more assertively work with the youth at risk on the Downtown Eastside.

That work has been underway now for some time. All of the partners at the table feel that it is working effectively. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t more changes or more things to be done. Continuous improvement is absolutely necessary in the ministry and in how we serve children and youth, and that’s what I’m committed to.

Madame Speaker: The member for Stikine on a supplemental.

D. Donaldson: When I asked the Minister of Aboriginal Relations just last week about this recommendation from the Paige report directed specifically to his ministry, he said he’s asked for an extension. Yet the Minister of Children and Family Development continually claims that she has accepted all of the recommendations in the Paige report and has plans and a detailed timeline to implement them.

[1100]

Well, here’s the timeline from her government’s response released on the federal election day in October to the Paige report: the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations is working on it. That is what the minister calls a detailed timeline.

It’s no wonder that history continually repeats itself with this minister — Paige, Alex Gervais, Carly Fraser, Alex Malamalatabua, Nick Lang, Danny Francis and now
[ Page 11607 ]
Patricia Evoy. Why isn’t the minister doing everything within her power so that young people don’t die as they transition into adulthood?

Hon. S. Cadieux: I am absolutely committed to doing everything in my power as minister to ensure the safety and security of vulnerable children in this province.

The representative, through the Paige report, called for a number of things. She called for a review of all of the children and youth on the Downtown Eastside. We did that. We reviewed a total of 124 children and youths’ files. We identified vulnerable people. We reached out to them through the rapid response team. The team has been making progress with 28 youth who have a place to sleep, access to health care and, more importantly, a dedicated team who understand their challenges.

The rep called for a review of the Downtown Eastside service delivery. We did that. We canvassed inventory and sat down with all of the social service agencies on the Downtown Eastside to examine how we can link our hands together better so that there is a safety net, so that people and youth like Paige and others can’t slip through our collective fingers.

The representative called for accountability around the agencies and service providers reporting harm and abuse. We have done that, because we absolutely can’t do this work alone.

When youth are vulnerable, they may or may not want to work or access the services provided, but when they arrive at another service provider or a health authority or have contact with police, we all need to know that they need to report that to the ministry of children and youth so that we can actively engage to protect and support that youth.

SAFETY AND STAFFING LEVELS
AT SURREY PRETRIAL CENTRE

M. Farnworth: For several years, this government has been warned about the risk of rising violence within our corrections system. The latest figure shows it has failed to respond, endangering both staff and people in custody.

For example, over a recent 12-month period, the overall number of violent incidents has risen by nearly 200 percent at the Surrey Pretrial Centre. Inmates assault on staff has risen fivefold. This reflects what has happened over the last decade, where the staff-to-inmate ratio has gone from one officer for every 20 inmates, in Surrey, to where the ratio is now one officer for every 72.

Why has this government not taken the action necessary so that both officers and people in custody are safe?

Hon. M. Morris: The safety of prisoners and staff in all the correctional centres in B.C. is of paramount importance to us. The design of the correctional centres makes it so that at any given time, there is constant vision into all of the living units. The staff are monitoring all the time through closed-circuit television, through audio, other staff members circulating throughout the correctional centres as well.

With respect to the Surrey Pretrial Centre, we added another 216 cells to the Surrey Pretrial Centre here not too long ago. We added another bunch of staff. The numbers that the member opposite is speaking about are probably reflective of the fact that we’ve added another 216 cells to that particular area here, so of course, those numbers are going to be up in comparison to what they were prior to 2014, when these cells were added.

Madame Speaker: The member for Port Coquitlam on a supplemental.

M. Farnworth: One of the key issues in terms of safety is the design of the units. The Minister said that these new living units are important. Well, guess what. They are.

[1105]

They were recognized when the minister’s parliamentary secretary did a report recommending the increased use of living units in pretrial centres. The problem is, the government went and closed four of those units.

While the minister talks about the great things he’s doing, perhaps he can tell us why four of those living units were closed at the Surrey Pretrial Centre and why, if he’s saying that you’ve added more staff, the ratio has increased from one officer for 20 to one officer for 72 inmates.

Hon. M. Morris: What we have to realize is that at Surrey Pretrial Centre, the prisoner population fluctuates on a regular basis. On any given day, there’s a number of fluctuations in the population there.

The prisoner safety and the safety of the corrections officers is paramount. The way that facility is designed, it keeps that in mind at all times. So safety is not an issue in any of the correctional centres that we have in B.C.

[End of question period.]

Orders of the Day

Hon. T. Stone: I call continued second reading of Bill 2, the Great Bear Rainforest (Forest Management) Act, 2016, here in Section B; and in Section A, the estimates of the Ministry of Community, Sport and Cultural Development and the Minister Responsible for TransLink.

Petitions

D. Eby: I rise to present a petition on behalf of my constituents. The petition calls on the end of the trophy grizzly bear hunt. It points out that more than 90 percent of British Columbians are opposed to this trophy hunt, and
[ Page 11608 ]
it stands in support of the grizzly bear–watching ecotourism industry that’s growing in the province. There are more than 1,500 signatures on this petition.

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 2 — GREAT BEAR RAINFOREST
(FOREST MANAGEMENT) ACT

(continued)

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

D. McRae: I stand and resume my place in the debate with regards to Bill 2. I know many members in the chamber yesterday were here as I was finishing up my last little bit of the history. Like the Minister of Advanced Education, I am a lover of history, and I just wanted to finish off my little conversation there before I went into the benefits of Bill 2 and its impacts on the province of British Columbia and its people today and tomorrow.

Yesterday when I was speaking, I talked about some maritime explorers. I talked about Drake, Bering, Quadra, Cook and, of course, Vancouver. I didn’t get to — and this is speaking to the history teacher — one of my favourite explorers of all time, who was Alexander Mackenzie — not the second Prime Minister of Canada, who would live 90 years later, but the explorer Alexander Mackenzie.

Alexander Mackenzie was a North West Co. employee whose task was to find the Pacific Ocean. In the late 1780s, he set out from roughly northern Alberta. Remember the technology of the day. They did not have really accurate measurements for longitude and latitude. Longitude was a challenge; latitude was even more so. They would use a sextant, obviously, and take sun shots to figure out their location. So Alexander Mackenzie’s first attempt to find the Pacific Ocean ended up in the Arctic Ocean as he traversed down the Mackenzie River, reaching its mouth. He did not name the Mackenzie River, actually. He named it Disappointment River, which was renamed several years later.

Realizing he needed some more professional development, he actually went back to England and got some more training in the use of longitude measurements. Remember, latitude measurements use sextants. Longitude is actually using lunar measurements. Coming back two years later, he sets out from the Peace River area looking for the Pacific Ocean. He did not refer to the Peace River, by the way, as the Peace River at the time. Using First Nations language, he referred to it with a very impressive name, calling it the Large River.

[1110]

He was not a great namer of anything, in my opinion, Disappointment River was not a great name; Large River was not a name. In fact, his dog, which he travelled with during his exploration, literally had the name Dog. This is an animal he spent many, many, many weeks with through his voyages, and at the end of it, they could only refer to him in historical documents as Dog.

Alexander Mackenzie, though, does come down through what we’ll call modern-day Prince George, starting down the Fraser but realizing that he was not going to make it to the Pacific Ocean through the dangerous Fraser River path. It was suggested by First Nations peoples that he should head to the coast using what they would refer to in English as the grease trail — or the grease trails, as there were many of them. They would go to the coast in various parts of the seasons to harvest oolichan.

Mackenzie works his way with First Nation guides to the coast. So inarguably, while the other explorers from Europe were maritime, he is the first individual — European individual, of course — to spend any substantial amount of time in what we call now the Great Bear Rainforest, by land.

He does reach the tidewater in 1793. He is advised not to actually head to the open Pacific Ocean. As there were some First Nations hostilities amongst each other at the time, it was gathered as not to be safe. But he did have time to become one of the first graffiti artists of British Columbia’s history, as he spent a bit of time using a bit of paint made from bear grease to actually write his name on a rock wall, and left the message: “Alexander Mackenzie, from Canada, by land, 22nd of July, 1793.” Obviously, the paint is not there anymore, but it has now been made a national historic site.

Now we move forward. We’ll jump 200 years. Today the world — as it did then, as it does today, as it will in the future — treasures the region. Visitors from across this province, from across the world, come and visit the Great Bear Rainforest because they respect it as a unique ecosystem, a unique piece of geography in the world.

In fact, one of my constituents owns Knight Inlet Lodge, which is a bear-viewing facility on the mainland, sort of below the Bella Bella–Bella Coola area — on Knight Inlet, obviously. He receives over 2,000 visitors a year. Almost all of them come from Europe to visit the Great Bear Rainforest.

With this agreement, it’s just another opportunity to preserve a treasured ecosystem. It has ancient trees. It has orca whales, wolves, grizzlies and, of course, the spirit bear or the kermode bear, which we refer to so often in this province and in this House.

Obviously, the First Nations have lived in the region for thousands of years. Their history, their culture — they’re all underlined with the Great Bear Rainforest. What makes this agreement that we are talking about today, this act, so important: it’s an opportunity that respects history. It treasures the ecosystem and recognizes that human well-being is also needing to be recognized.

If you look in our main chamber, in the rotunda, and you look at the ceiling, you see the four industries that oftentimes they’ll say Europeans depended upon when they first came to British Columbia. Whether it’s forest-
[ Page 11609 ]
ry, mining, fishing or agriculture, they’re all represented there. While our economy today has evolved to include many, many more aspects — elements like high tech, the service sector, the education sector, tourism, transportation — this region in northwest British Columbia is still heavily resource-dependent.

Forestry is recognized as so vital to this region for the well-being of its people and the well-being of this province. So while 3.1 million hectares will not be logged, 500,000 hectares will still be able to be logged but with strict environmental and cultural rules to be examined.

This is an opportunity, when we look at bills like Bill 2, to say: can we find that balance? It is an opportunity with government, with First Nations individuals, with local communities, with industry, to say: where do we find that balance? Bill 2 has been able to strike that balance for the people of British Columbia, for the people of the world. This government is incredibly proud of the hard work, the decades of work, that went into making this opportunity. I’m pleased to stand and support this bill today.

S. Hammell: It also gives me great pleasure to join the members in the chamber and stand in support of the bill, the Great Bear Rainforest (Forest Management) Act. This act establishes a forest management area for the Great Bear Rainforest. The Great Bear Rainforest stretches from Discovery Islands northwards to the Tongass rainforest of Alaska. This includes the island of Haida Gwaii.

[1115]

Together, it represents the largest tracts of intact temperate rainforest — some 15 million acres, or 6.4 million hectares. This the largest intact temperate rainforest remaining on the planet. Over half of the region is covered by the rainforest ecosystem.

These rainforests are extremely rare, and this rare piece of the planet is part of our province. I just think we can’t be more proud of that and feel lucky to have this incredible ecosystem at our doorstep. It is just up the coast from where we are in this chamber. And imagine — it is an area that represents 1 percent of the planet’s land mass. So 1 percent of the planet’s land mass is temperate rainforest, and we have one of them. They, indeed, are rare.

What makes it even more outstanding is the fact that very few of these forests are unlogged. Our rainforest, where 26 of our First Nations have made their home for thousands of years, is an amazing example of this forest type.

Many of us who live in British Columbia have spent time on the coast and time on the edge or within this forest. Many of us spend summers there. Some make their homes there. We’ve spent holidays, and there are many ecotourist adventures that you can go on in this amazing area.

I’m going to quote, actually, from the book Conflict Resolution and British Columbia’s Great Bear Rainforest by Patrick Armstrong, because I don’t think it can be said anywhere more clearly than this. He says in his book, “In a natural state, these forests are very old, with the average age of 350 years and many individual trees over 1,000 years old” — and even older. “Rarely disturbed by natural events like forest fires, the temperate rainforest sustains a biomass greater than any other terrestrial ecosystem in the world.” Wow — and that is right up our coast in our province of British Columbia.

“In the Great Bear Rainforest, the towering trees, fjords, islands, mountain slopes and estuaries support a rich diversity of plants and wildlife. Bears, wolves, mountain goats, Sitka deer, salmon and six million migratory birds are found here.” Again, this is just up our coast and part of our province of British Columbia.

“The region’s rivers and streams provide spawning and rearing habitat for 20 percent of Pacific salmon that are the primary food source for an array of wildlife as well as a cultural and commercial staple for the coastal communities.”

The Great Bear Rainforest is called that in reference to the fact that this area has a large number of bears. In particular, although they have many rainforest grizzly bears and black bears, they also have a very unusual genetic variation of the black bear, widely known as the rare, white-coated kermode or spirit bear, a genetic version of the black bear. They range widely throughout this area, as they have done for many, many, years.

[1120]

We have a very rare ecosystem of the planet. We have it in our backyard. It is dense in flora and fauna and life in general. It is rare, and it is an amazing place.

For years, as our family grew, we spent many, many, many summers camping and fishing near Bamfield at Pachena Bay on the Nuu-chah-nulth territory. The time spent there was just life-altering. It was absolutely amazing.

We spent hours in boats exploring the oceans that lap the shores of this area and camping under the forest canopy. We saw bear. We saw fish. We just had an amazing time. People from the Mainland would come join us to camp for a number of days or weeks, and then they’d return home. We would anchor the camp, where we just had a marvelous time.

There, on the Pachena River, I learned with my sister that once you’re out of a canoe in the water, it’s pretty much impossible while you’re still in the water to get back in the canoe. We must have spent nearly two hours, with every strategy we could possibly devise, trying to figure out how to get back into that canoe.

Then there were days, also, where we rented a herring skiff and just got out amongst the islands of the area. You could follow whales. You could stop and listen and watch the sea lions. You saw puffins. It was just unbelievable. It was a place…. It was magic. It was absolutely magic. We are so, so fortunate that this area has been protected.

We have an amazing treasure on our doorstep. To think that we have crossed party lines…. We have managed to
[ Page 11610 ]
move what would be considered adversaries together to work hard over a long, long period of time to ensure that this piece of our planet remains largely intact not only for us but for future generations and for the planet itself.

The human species is amazing. We have managed to, in the course of, maybe, going on a couple hundred years, almost touch every part of the province of British Columbia in terms of being able to forest and to cut down the trees that were once here. What we have done here is we have protected old-growth forest, protected the ecosystems within it and protected a part of our planet that we will not, as human beings, be able to wholesale just destroy or alter.

We can thank all of the people of British Columbia and the political process of all governments that have partnered to make this happen. It’s a tremendous achievement for all — for First Nations, environmentalists, local communities and the forest industry. They had to use perseverance and tenacity to continue the discussion for many, many years.

Actually, it was early in the ’90s when the majority of this activity began. Anyone who lived in the province of British Columbia in the ’90s really did understand there was something wrong in the forests. There was trouble brewing. The initial flashpoint of that discussion was around Clayoquot Sound.

[1125]

The environmental NGOs at that time — NGOs such as Greenpeace, Rainforest Coalition, Natural Resources Defense Council and Rainforest Action — decided to switch strategies from trying to convince those people in power to change the legal regime around forestry and the logging of old growth. Instead, they chose to switch their focus to talking with and putting pressure not on the people who cut the forest but the people who bought the products from the forest.

There was a period of time around 1993 where the main focus was on Clayoquot Sound. I remember, as clearly as I stand here today, the day there was a very, very large protest against the cutting down of the old forest growth in Clayoquot Sound. There was a huge demonstration on the lawn of the Legislature. It was loud. It was boisterous. It was intense. There were a lot of people who wanted to have their voices heard. They broke through the barriers from the lawn, and the protest moved up the stairs of the Legislature and into the rotunda just outside the door at the end.

We in the House…. I’m sure we were gathered to listen to question period, but what became our focus very quickly was the fact that you could hear the protest become louder and louder as it moved towards the doors of the Legislature. I can say…. I remember a number of us, who are still in the House, were sitting in the far end of the Legislature close to the door. I remember that as the sound started to move towards the door of the chamber, you could also hear the pounding and the knocking against the door itself.

We had a very, very fast-thinking commissionaire who immediately grabbed the bar and barred the door as the protestors hit the door, buckling it as they tried to get into the chamber. The door held, but the glass from the doors was shattered, and the glass came flying into the chamber.

Hon. Speaker, I can tell you that we were quiet. We sat there in stunned silence as the protestors tried to breach the door. Fortunately, at that time more sanity prevailed. There was more containment of the protest. I would imagine that some people decided that they had gone too far, that the protestors were removed from the upper rotunda, and calm prevailed in the chamber.

It was a very, very frightening time, a frightening moment in this chamber. I think the metaphor for it was that people were incredibly intense about the need to save the old forest, the very little remaining old forest that was found in British Columbia.

The windows were replaced. Those are not the original stained glass now. They are copies. The windows were replaced. Of course, things have moved on, to a large extent, in a very, very positive way.

Once they had managed to create some kind of consensus around Clayoquot Sound…. Clayoquot Sound was actually the first sort of major success in stopping the cutting of old-growth forests.

[1130]

That time was around 1993, when the focus was Clayoquot. I think part of what made Clayoquot Sound move was that in the United Kingdom, Scott Paper decided not to purchase any product from the old-growth forests or areas where there were significant cuts deemed ecologically unsustainable.

The protest of moving from having something happen like happened here in the Legislature — protesting to governments against the behaviour of the forest companies in the forest — moved. The environmentalists moved, changed their strategy and decided to target who bought the paper. They could see that the people who bought the logs or bought the product would be more susceptible to consumer pressure than perhaps even governments would be in terms of their logging companies.

We did see how effective that change was. They learned that if you put pressure on a company for some behaviour they don’t like, then that company will change their behavior.

I think we’ve just seen that with the issue of ketchup, in Ontario. A company that took over from Heinz — I think it was French’s ketchup — was banned from Loblaws. There was a huge outcry started by one person who didn’t like that approach of banning a Canadian product from a Canadian company. Up it went as a protest, and the company changed its policy.

In many ways, what we see in this protest around, first, Clayoquot Sound and, then, moving on to the Great Bear Rainforest is the initial beginnings of protests and protestors and environmentalists and other groups focusing
[ Page 11611 ]
on the products that result from the cutting down of the forest, rather than on the people who are doing the cutting. It’s actually more sustainable and more powerful to manage at the end game.

After Clayoquot Sound, we saw a shift to the Great Bear Rainforest, again with that focus on using the marketplace as the place to play out the protest. The government did react. I remember clearly being in the government around that period of time, when the government did bring in a Forest Practices Code — one of the toughest forest practices codes ever brought into this province.

They proceeded to start the multi-interest land and resource-based planning process. That’s where a number of people were gathered together under one table where they would discuss what the appropriate land use would be for a certain area. They focused on the central coast. The environmentalists refused to engage, originally, unless logging was deferred. So the conflict continued.

In 1999, Home Depot — again, you have that focus on the product — announced a global policy to eliminate the sales of forest products from endangered areas. Again you can see the protest has moved from government and protesting on the lawns of the Legislature — though that did continue but not in the same intensity — to a very focused and strategic attack on companies that sold the products.

[1135]

The result was successful. We had people decide that they would not continue in terms of buying products, so that put the logging companies and the forest companies under pressure to start negotiating with the environmentalists.

What actually is more than a little amazing is that this whole process…. I think it is indicative of how complex all these processes and these understandings are — and the breadth of consultation that has to take place and the different actions surrounding different players — that this whole process has taken well over, well, 20 years or so. When you think that it was in 1993 that we were dealing with Clayoquot Sound and that it’s now 2016 when we have this bill in front of us, and the amount of time and effort that it has taken for everyone to participate and come to terms….

You’ve had such competing interests, competing economies, that to have come to this, to the end game where we actually have a bill…. We have the various interests, such as the First Nations. As I said before, there are 26 First Nations that live in this land, where you need to ensure that there’s economic activity that’s supporting the communities that live and thrive in this Great Bear Rainforest yet maintain the ecosystem and the essence of this fabulous area. It has not been, I would say, easy.

I think that the need to take that kind of time shows that when you’re talking about regimes of forest management — of the cut that’s allowed and where the cut is allowed and the mapping and the understanding of the diversity of the creatures and the animals found in the area and what we have to protect…. It takes incredible effort. I think, with the government bringing this bill to us to look at and to actually celebrate, it’s a win-win for all of us.

So I am pleased to stand in support of this bill. I do believe that it’s had its roots in grassroots protesting. It has its roots in an environmental movement that understood the precious nature of this area. It has been picked up, and the forest companies that are operating in that area have come to an agreement with those people involved.

There has been a foundation set to encourage economic activity from the people. I think the foundation has $120 million, or it was, to encourage economic activity in the area. Many of us have seen, even in this House, some of the results of that activity. We were at an event the other night where companies, some of them including aboriginal, First Nations people, were talking about whale sightings and grizzly bear sightings and where you can go out and see in a very learned way…. You can go into the area and be shown what it is that we as a community, what all of us in British Columbia, have chosen to say: “This is much too precious to destroy, and we’re here to keep it.”

Again, I would like to say I am pleased to stand and support the bill and will be pleased to see it pass.

[1140]

M. Hunt: I stand to rise and speak on Bill 2, which is the Great Bear Rainforest (Forest Management) Act. I have to admit it’s always a challenge when, on this side, I have to follow the member for Comox Valley with all of his tremendous history and all the stuff that he brings up concerning this area and stuff.

I don’t have that history. I come from Alberta. My area around Edmonton was relatively flat, not an awful lot of trees, mostly poplar. But we had the Rocky Mountains. That’s where we spent our summer vacations. People come from all over the world — whether it’s on the west coast Mountaineer or to fly in to Calgary and drive through the mountains — to see our gorgeous Rocky Mountains.

To me, I just take them for granted because that’s where we’ve always vacationed, that’s where I was raised, and that’s just normal — until you go around the rest of the world and see what the rest of the world calls mountains, and you realize how majestic and wonderful our Rocky Mountains are. I think it’s the same when it comes to our trees and our rainforests.

We had an anniversary a couple years ago. Our family asked us what we wanted to do for the anniversary. We said: “Well, actually, we’d like to celebrate family.” So what we did was we went out to Port Alberni and rented a house out in Port Alberni that had seven bedrooms in it. We filled it all up with us and our grandkids. We had a wonderful weekend, but on our way there, we went through the Cathedral Grove park.
[ Page 11612 ]

We stopped, and we took our grandkids and walked them through the forest, walked them through these gorgeous majestic trees that are there — or, in other cases, you’ve got stumps of ones that used to be. Just imagine what the forest was like back when life was a whole lot different, when life was simpler, when life wasn’t as urban and industrialized as it is today.

I think that’s one of the things that we have to recognize. I’m glad that we recognize in this House that we have a shared responsibility to pass on, as British Columbians, to future generations the magnificence and the pristineness of these beautiful ancient forests that we have and, at the same time, recognize that we also have the tradition of making a living off the land.

It’s that balance between the two — the balance between resource extraction, using these lands productively for human activity, as well as recognizing the environmental stewardship of these lands and our responsibilities and that, and keeping the balance between those two. That’s why I think this Bill 2 is a tremendous act and a tremendous accomplishment for all of this province.

In fact, the Great Bear Rainforest is a global treasure that’s covering 6.4 million hectares, which is one-quarter of the world’s coastal temperate rainforests. That’s amazing, to recognize that we have a world treasure here, that 25 percent of the world’s coastal rainforest is here, and we’re a part of managing that.

Now, by the same token, recognizing that it all can’t be preserved, we’ve got to work with parts of it that we can actually work with and make use of because of the uniqueness of the climate. There are 273,000 hectares where commercial timber-harvest activities will be totally and absolutely prohibited and other areas where it will be supported: the element of having ecosystem-based management practices where, again, we balance the ecological integrity of the area as well as recognizing the need for other human well-being — for the logging companies, for people to be able to gain employment from these lands.

That balance, I think, is great. I think it’s wonderful that in dealing with this ecosystem-based management, we’ve had 26 First Nations, the province, the forest companies, the environmental groups all working together on this. I think it shows what can be done when we collaborate.

[1145]

Sometimes when we look at what goes on in this Legislature, particularly in question period, we see the to-and-fro, the back-and-forth and, I’ll call it, the argumentativeness that can happen in this House. Yet when we work together, when we focus on common goals, common needs, common necessities, I find it amazing what we can accomplish in this province, because we have people that are committed to the beauty of this province and committed to preserving as well as using this province.

Key stakeholders. First Nations — they collaborated together with the government to create the policy framework that became this proposed legislation. It was called the joint solutions project, where we had these different groups working together with the Coastal First Nations, with the Nanwakolas Council, as well as the forest companies, all providing input.

We’ve got Coast Forest Conservation Initiative, the B.C. Timber Sales, Catalyst Paper, Howe Sound Pulp and Paper, Interfor and Western Forest Products working together with the environmental NGOs, such as Rainforest Solutions Project, ForestEthics Solutions, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club — all working together to come to this policy framework that we can all agree on and we can work forward on.

In fact, the amount of protected old-growth forest in the area will increase from 50 percent to 70 percent. It’s going to include eight new areas that are set aside from logging completely and absolutely. Some of the forest areas are going to be reconfigured; there are going to be new timber supply areas — all working together to make it work on the land, in the real world, for the good of everyone that’s involved with this.

The coastal forest companies will be operating with certainty, because they will have a secure land base. They will know what to expect. Forest companies have defined forest management areas, which is 15 percent of the forest, where logging can occur and will provide designated areas with designated special forest management practices.

I think it is a win for everybody. There’s an annual allowable cut that’s involved. We’ve got carbon credits. We’ve got all sorts of things that they have looked at as a total ecosystem. We’ve looked at it as a total project. I’m very pleased with this. I think it’s kudos to everyone who was involved.

As this passes, this is a great time for this Legislature. It’s a great time for the province of British Columbia, as we take what we have been given — though from our predecessors — for us to pass on to future generations. So I stand to speak in favour of Bill 2 and will be supporting it when it comes forward to the House.

R. Fleming: I’m pleased to make brief remarks on Bill 2 this morning — and perhaps this afternoon — and speak to what I think other members of this House have also paid tribute to, really, which is the tremendous amount of work over many, many decades that the Great Bear Rainforest represents in our province — where we have come just in a couple of decades, in particular, from being, I think, seen by many in the global community as not a place that was recognized for having sustainable forest practices, not a place recognized for having leadership and stewardship of our resources.

In fact, some would have described us as a global pariah in various European boycott campaigns and all of those things that were damaging B.C.’s brand internationally. We have come from that point where this province’s industry was challenged and threatened, was a source of internal conflict amongst our own people and a source of controversy abroad.
[ Page 11613 ]

We now are at a point where we have a comprehensive agreement that represents one of the most significant steps on this continent to protect the biodiversity of species, of which British Columbia is blessed to have the most rich biodiversity in all of Canada and indeed on this continent.

[1150]

We are at a place today where 27 First Nations that are a part of the six million hectares included in the Great Bear Rainforest land use planning area are in agreement with one another and are able to participate in employment opportunities, in resource management and gain employment and security and economic development opportunities for their communities.

Previously that was, of course, not the norm, unfortunately, in British Columbia. First Nations people stood outside of the benefits and access to the resources to which they are connected over tens of thousands of years. That is an astounding accomplishment.

These things only happen…. I would say once in a generation, but I think it’s once in a century. Major areas are set aside and managed for conservation goals. You can think of, in the United States, the famous conservation areas created by presidents like Theodore Roosevelt, some of which we share borders with, in Montana. One can think closer to home here on Vancouver Island, 100 years ago. I think we’ve just celebrated the anniversary of Strathcona Park, which is an incredible place for recreation and wildlife and species diversity.

Then we have the Great Bear Rainforest agreement that, really, as I said, recognizes something that is globally significant in these challenging times where environmental devastation has occurred in every corner of the earth, and economic development has threatened the natural state of most parts of our planet, where we have the impacts of climate change upon us now.

We now have a managed forest area that is probably one of the most effective carbon storage, climate change–fighting uses of the land base that anyone could possibly hope for, right here in British Columbia. Again, to go from being castigated as the Amazon of the north, as British Columbia once was, to being recognized for visionary land use agreements like this is phenomenal.

I also think members have spoken well to how democracy, if you will, has worked very well in this process. We had a government that began discussions, began land use table planning processes, began the early stages through, for example, the Clayoquot Sound science panel, and then, in response to the Great Bear Rainforest campaign internationally, began to take steps towards the intentional agreement that was eventually declared under an NDP admin in the year 2000, a set-aside of this area.

[Madame Speaker in the chair.]

Now, we had an election in 2001 that changed who was in power, and it was uncertain how the Liberal opposition would act in government. But one of the great stories about the Great Bear Rainforest is that Premiers like Mike Harcourt, Glen Clark, Gordon Campbell were able to build upon each other’s advances in the various stages of the process that led to the creation of the Great Bear Rainforest.

Madame Speaker, I see your presence in here, and I would note the hour and reserve my place to continue debate on Bill 2. I will now move adjournment of debate.

R. Fleming moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Hon. T. Stone moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Madame Speaker: This House, at its rising, stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:54 a.m.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
COMMUNITY, SPORT AND
CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); J. Thornthwaite in the chair.

The committee met at 11:12 a.m.

On Vote 18: ministry operations, $245,937,000.

The Chair: Do you have opening comments?

Hon. P. Fassbender: I do, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.

I’m joined today by staff from the Ministry of Community, Sport and Cultural Development. I want to say that I’ve been honoured to get to work with these individuals, who are dedicated professionals who work every day to ensure that we meet the needs of the communities that we serve. I want to say very clearly how much I appreciate their efforts and the support that I receive from them in doing the job that I’ve been tasked with doing.
[ Page 11614 ]

I’d like to introduce my deputy minister, Jacquie Dawes; the assistant deputy minister, Tara Faganello, for local government; and Gary Paget, who’s the senior advisor to the ADM for local government. Also here is David Curtis, who recently joined the Ministry of Finance. Up until his recent appointment, Mr. Curtis served as the ADM for my ministry’s management services division. While we’ve lost him to the Ministry of Finance, we’re delighted that he’s here supporting us as we go through the estimates.

Finally, there are other individuals who’ll come up as they’re required. I’ll introduce them at that time.

[1115]

I also want to take the opportunity to thank everybody who has contributed to the ministry over the years. This ministry works very closely, as we all know, with local governments and with UBCM and have done a great job in terms of the communication. As I spoke at the latest UBCM, I said that one of the things that we are working very hard to do is to always improve our communication and two-way dialogue with local governments. Indeed, I believe that the deputy and her team have lived up to that commitment, and we intend to do so in the future.

I know it’s obvious that the ministry’s key responsibilities are, as I said, to work with the 189 local governments and support B.C.’s talented artists, creative art groups, sporting organizations, and so on. When I have had the opportunity to travel and meet with a lot of those groups, they are very appreciative of how the government is investing in their activities, because they believe clearly that they contribute to the personality and dynamics of local communities. We couldn’t do it without the significant volunteer efforts that those organizations make.

I’m also pleased that within the context of our fiscal environment and our balanced budget that we are ensuring, in 2016, that record levels of community-based funding for arts and sport organizations will be maintained. The ministry, as is obvious, has increased budget funding for local government grant programs by $30 million in 2016-2017 — from $124.7 million to over $154.7 million. That is a result of our strong economy and our ability to reinvest in communities and activities and to help local governments do what they need to do in fulfilling their responsibilities.

We clearly recognize that local governments have a huge responsibility, and our commitment as a ministry is to work with them. We’re not always going to be able to do everything that they ask, but we do want to continue to hear and to work with them. There are a number of initiatives with UBCM representing local governments that we have continued to work on and will in the future.

In 2016-17, the B.C. government will spend more than $60 million on arts and culture to help B.C. artists and cultural organizations continue to shine. Again, I’ve had the opportunity to attend some performances and meet with individuals, and what I continually hear is they recognize that the province of British Columbia is committed to working with them and helping them to achieve what they do.

We recently also launched a creative strategy that has a direct tie to continuing to build our economic framework. We believe that the creative economy contributes in so many ways, not just in some of the performing arts and so on but actually showing young people the diversity of career opportunities that there is in the creative economy. We see that in the film industry. We see it in the music industry. We see it in the development of gaming initiatives and things like that. So I know that the funding that we are giving, and the encouragement, is going to be producing results in the years ahead.

It was interesting that when we launched the creative strategy, the groups that were present at that launch clearly said that they were pleased that the government recognizes the economic relationship between what they’re doing and how that provides economic growth and also opportunities for young people.

I’m delighted to be here. I look forward to the discussion as we go through the estimates. With that, I will take my seat.

[1120]

S. Robinson: I would like to just take a few moments to acknowledge the minister’s staff as well. They have been very available and helpful when I’ve had questions or needed a briefing around legislation. I’ve been very grateful for the opportunity.

I thought I would just remind everyone that we’ll focus today on local government. Towards the end of the day, we’ll do arts. The member responsible for that part of the file will be joining us. Then when we return in April, we’ll have an opportunity to go over some of the other areas, like sports. That would help to keep everyone on track and make sure we have the right staff in the room.

I also want to thank the minister for being very gracious around and being excited about the conversations we’re about to have. I have a whole range of questions. For those that I don’t get in, I will certainly be sending them through on paper, in a written format, and will ask that we get a timely response on those. With that, I’d like to….

Oh, one other comment. It was really refreshing to hear the minister mention that he’s working really hard to have open dialogue with UBCM, making sure that there is two-way communication. I expect that there will be no more surprise Ernst and Young reports that suggest that local governments aren’t working hard to rein in their costs and that there will be ongoing dialogue so that there are no surprises for those people who participate and represent their constituents. I’m really pleased to hear that from the minister.

With that, I’m wondering if the minister can, perhaps, just outline the increase in his budget and detail where this budget increase is being allocated so that I can sort of orient myself to that.
[ Page 11615 ]

Hon. P. Fassbender: The budget increased to $258.579 million an increase of $30.109 million from the 2015-16 related estimates budget of $228.470 million. The budget increase of $30.109 million is due to an increase of $15 million to return to normalized funding for the small community grants; an increase of $15 million to return to normalized funding for traffic fine revenue grants; an increase in salaries and benefits for BCGEU staff, in accordance with the current collective agreement; and increases to offset a reduction to the salaries and benefits budget of approximately 0.075 to reflect the reduced charges for employee benefits in 2016-17.

Then there are other minor adjustments that are administrative entries and do not reflect any changes to the business operations or service delivery.

I will say that staff would be able to provide a more detailed list, underneath that, if the member would like.

S. Robinson: I certainly appreciate the offer. I do have a question around the TransLink file coming over to this ministry. I didn’t hear anything listed about what those added costs are for this ministry. I’m wondering if the minister can address that.

[1125]

Hon. P. Fassbender: When the responsibility was transferred on July 30, it really came down to the legislative and governance framework from the Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure. The ministry is accountable, as I am, for the management and oversight of the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority policy and governance.

No budget was transferred from MOTI. On an annual basis, my ministry and MOTI review and renew the shared-services agreement between the two ministries and establish a cost recovery framework between the two ministries for the administrative staff functions and the other things that will follow.

I should also add that the current annual shared-services agreement includes the following: partial recovery from MOTI for the salary and benefits of the executive director of transportation governance and planning — a 0.5 FTE from MOTI will be available to provide support for our ministry for the TransLink files — and recovery from MOTI of the actual travel costs incurred by the executive director of transportation governance and planning, up to $10,000 per agreement period.

S. Robinson: If I’m to understand that correctly, all the costs related to managing this part of the ministry are still living in the Ministry of Transportation. It’s in that budget rather than in this budget. I just want to make sure that that’s where that money is living.

Hon. P. Fassbender: That is partially correct. The responsibilities for the oversight and the relationship with the Mayors Council, with the board of TransLink…. As the member knows, we appointed the two government representatives to the board.

A lot of the functional work is still with MOTI in terms of some of the planning around the issues as it relates to expansion and the mayor’s vision and so on. By the same token, some of the administrative work is being absorbed within the ministry and within our current staffing. I will say this. As we move along and as we look at some of the activities that we believe are coming, it will be the responsibility of the ministry to work with MOTI to look at what things are logical for us to take over that are currently being done by them.

A lot of the capital programs…. They have the dedicated staff that are expert in that. We’re working very closely. I know my deputy and the deputy at MOTI are in constant contact to make sure that there’s seamless work going on, on all of those initiatives. But it’s a bit of a transition period still and will probably continue for a period of time.

S. Robinson: I certainly appreciate this shift in responsibility. It sounds like it’s living in two places. That may or may not change over time. I’ll certainly speak with the minister when we need to around trying to understand how things are playing out. I appreciate that.

[1130]

I believe there was a recent budget announcement to increase funding of nearly $2 million a year for the creative economy in arts and cultural funding, but I don’t see it in the line item for “Arts, culture, gaming grants and sport,” which is flat. I’m just wanting to understand. If that’s an increase, does it mean it’s coming from some other pot? If the creative economy, arts and cultural funding, is getting a $2 million lift, then is somebody else getting a reduction?

Hon. P. Fassbender: I did want to now introduce Melanie Stewart, who is the ADM responsible for this particular part of the ministry.

What we did with that is we are funding that within the existing envelope, so it is within our existing budget. We have been able to allocate that without negatively impacting the other parts of it. There is a lot of synergy between that particular announcement and work that we were doing within the ministry with groups in any event. We have met with them and explained and had a good discussion about the creative strategy, and it fits into a lot of the existing work that we would be doing in any event.

S. Robinson: I can appreciate this investment. I’m not saying…. This is not a bad investment, but really, when you’re working with budgets and you’re going to be channelling some money into something new — whether it’s new positions, new opportunities, new grants — then it has to come from somewhere. I’d really like to get a more
[ Page 11616 ]
detailed response to where the money is coming from — a more finite, I guess, provision of which budgets are actually being decreased by $2 million.

Hon. P. Fassbender: Maybe the best way to say this is that for a lot of the programs that we’ve been working with, all the groups have not changed. What this strategy does, and why we have focused this particular amount from existing budgets, is to make it much more targeted with those groups. We’re not taking away any of the activities we’ve done, but we’ve worked with them to really focus it on the creative strategy and to really target that in a much more effective way than we might have in the past. So what has happened is we’ve not taken anything away from anyone else. We’re using the same money, but it is much more focused and much more targeted.

S. Robinson: Well, I really do appreciate the response, because that’s not really an increase in funding. It’s just that we’re using the money that we already have a little differently. I guess I want to express some concern about suggesting that there’s an increase in funding when, in fact, it’s not really an increase in funding. We’re just using it differently. We’re targeting it; we’re focusing it. Hearing the actual response helps us to understand whether or not there was really, in fact, an increase.

I would expect that when an announcement of an increase is made, we would actually see it somewhere in a budget, and that’s not the case — especially if it’s not being taken from other groups.

[1135]

I would expect that any ministry would always use, and refresh how they use, taxpayer dollars to provide benefit and constantly challenge staff and programs to do more and to do better. That’s what this is, and that’s good. But it’s hardly, I would say, an increase in funding.

Now, I do have a question about a sport fund. Would the minister’s staff prefer I wait till we actually talk about sports, or is that…?

Hon. P. Fassbender: It’s totally up to you.

S. Robinson: I could wait, because I want to make sure we have the right staff.

Hon. P. Fassbender: We have the right staff.

S. Robinson: Okay. Can the minister tell me about the physical fitness and amateur sport fund? Where does this money come from?

Hon. P. Fassbender: You asked the question if we had the right staff. We do have the right staff, but we don’t have all the information available. We can come back to that if the member is happy to do that.

S. Robinson: Yes. I would be happy to do that. I’ve already actually made a note to further pursue that when we return, and we talk about sports in general.

Can the minister share with me if there are any ongoing reviews in this ministry, or have any reviews been completed in the last, say, six months, eight months? Are any of these reviews public, or will they be made public — reviews of operations, operation reviews?

Hon. P. Fassbender: Aside from ongoing reviews that the ministry staff does of a variety of different things…. I don’t think you’re asking me to detail all of that, because that is what we expect of management within the ministry. There is a Crown agency review of the B.C. Assessment Authority that is currently underway. That was announced by the Ministry of Finance recently.

[1140]

There is the officer of the Auditor General — the Office of the Auditor General — and their annual audits of ministries, of course. They have also initiated community gaming grants reviews — the Office of the Auditor General. I don’t know the timing of the release of that report, but that is underway as well.

S. Robinson: I appreciate getting that information. I thank the minister for that.

Did this ministry receive Treasury Board approval for access to the contingencies and new programs votes? If so, what ministry program did it fund, and did this ministry access the contingencies budget in the previous fiscal year — so over the last two fiscal years?

Hon. P. Fassbender: I think that the member knows clearly that contingencies are the purview of the Minister of Finance, and I think those questions are rightly directed to his ministry when his estimates come forward.

Any access to contingencies from the previous year will be part of public accounts, and when those are released, all of the answers to those questions will be in the public accounts.

S. Robinson: If I’m to understand the response, my understanding would be that it would be this ministry that would ask for the release of contingencies. But it’s only those that were actually given that we’ll find out about in those estimates. The preference would be to check with that minister, rather than with this one, is my understanding.

Hon. P. Fassbender: The member is correct.

S. Robinson: I’d like to now turn to some of the service plan, if we could, just to give some people a heads-up.

Referring to objective 1.1 in the service plan, which is about “review and monitor policy, legislative and regula-
[ Page 11617 ]
tory framework and propose changes….” Aside from the expense limits legislation that’s currently being debated in the House, what other changes has the ministry considered, or is considering, looking at?

[1145]

Hon. P. Fassbender: Well, I want to say to the member that one of the roles of this ministry — I’m sure she’s well aware of it, coming from local government — is that our staff is in constant contact with UBCM, looking at issues that may be emerging from a local government point of view. That’s reflected in resolutions that come from the UBCM Convention.

Staff is also in constant contact, either by phone or email, with local governments, who may call up and say: “We’re thinking about doing this. What are the implications of that potential change?” We also are looking at, and we have, a number of restructuring requests that have come in, which staff are working on, throughout the province in different areas.

I think the member may be aware that recently the ministry and myself, as the minister, met with representatives from the CRD on the sewage issue, helping to facilitate discussions with them. We’re also helping in the Okanagan — in Kelowna, with the city of Kelowna and their water districts. We are constantly providing the support that they need in order to move ahead on issues that are important to their citizens. There’s always work going on, and the list is at times quite extensive, depending on what local governments need.

With that said, and noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:47 a.m.

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