2016 Legislative Session: Fifth Session, 40th Parliament
HANSARD

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.

The printed version remains the official version.

official report of

Debates of the Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Thursday, March 10, 2016

Morning Sitting

Volume 35, Number 1

ISSN 0709-1281 (Print)
ISSN 1499-2175 (Online)

THURSDAY, MARCH 10, 2016

The House met at 10:05 a.m.

[Madame Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Introductions by Members

Hon. M. Polak: It may be surprising to those of us in this House to know that we actually have some very loyal viewers of question period. We do.

Today is a very special day for one of them. It’s his birthday. Peter Inkman was a member of the Princess Patricia’s Canadian Light Infantry in Korea, with the 1st Battalion, and served there with distinction. He came home to Canada, built a wonderful life with his lovely bride, had a couple of kids. One of them was me.

Today is his 87th birthday. Dad, happy birthday.

M. Elmore: I’m very pleased to welcome some constituents visiting the House, I believe for their first time here.

We have Leanne Obuyes who is here. She’s a very active and involved and engaged student in grade 10. She’s involved in many clubs at school, including the ecology club, the photography club, peer mediation, servant leadership and the social justice club. She’s here job-shadowing myself and also Melanie Mark. She just really exemplifies leadership of a young woman in our community — certainly an up-and-comer.

Music is a passion for her. She teaches music theory, even at her young age. She’s very active volunteering in the community. She enjoys photography, art, travelling, writing and reading. I ask everybody to welcome her.

Her father, Lester Obuyes, is here also. He’s active on the Vancouver-Kensington executive and very active in his community and, as well, is joined by his brother Reynaldo Obuyes.

I ask everybody to please give them a warm welcome.

L. Larson: It’s my pleasure to introduce someone very important from my riding and a very good friend. Would the House please welcome the mayor of Oliver, Ron Hovanes.

L. Krog: I rise on a serious matter this morning.

I wish to extend an apology to the Solicitor General. A couple of weeks ago in this House, when he introduced Graeme Roberts, the former mayor of Nanaimo, I criticized him for not giving a fulsome introduction at that time. Today I want to confess to the House that I, too, left out an important part of the mayor’s biography, which was that in 1986, Mayor Roberts, in conjunction with Harbour Park Mall, sponsored a contest to pick the ultimate Nanaimo bar recipe.

Now, I just want to tell you that the Nanaimo bar is not just for Nanaimoites or British Columbians. It has attained a new status. It is ambrosia. Well, actually, it’s not for the gods that we pray to. It’s for the political gods. Tonight in Washington, D.C., on the menu at the state dinner for our Prime Minister, you will find the Nanaimo bar.

[1010]

Tributes

PATRICK QUEALEY

Hon. N. Yamamoto: I’d like to introduce to the House today someone for whom I have a tremendous amount of respect. Pat Quealey is the assistant deputy minister with Emergency Management B.C.

Emergency Management B.C. leads the management of provincial emergencies and disasters. Before he was appointed to the assistant deputy position, Pat had a 25-year career with the Canadian Armed Forces. His overseas deployment included Bosnia and Afghanistan. Here in Canada, he was directly involved in planning and leading military support to security and disaster response operations in British Columbia and in Alberta.

Today is Pat’s last day at EMBC, but our loss is Royal Canadian Marine Search and Rescue’s gain. They are a non-profit, volunteer-based organization whose mission is saving lives in the water, so I’m actually happy that Pat will continue to serve B.C. in an emergency rescue capacity.

Pat’s wife, Kirsten, his three children — Maya, Tom and Ruthie — are also here, and I want them to know how much we’ve appreciated Pat’s dedication and tremendous leadership. Our Minister of Justice also asked me to express her appreciation for the support you’ve provided her and, in particular, for the B.C. earthquake immediate response plan project that you led so ably.

Pat, you introduced me to the phrase “unity of effort,” but, my friend, you embody that term. You and your team have worked to harmonize efforts among multiple organizations working to a similar objective: a coordinated and organized response to all emergencies and disasters to provide safety for B.C. citizens.

I’d like to thank Pat Quealey — for your efforts and your leadership — on behalf of both sides of the House. All the best, Pat, in your future endeavours.

Statements

FIBREBOARD PLANT EXPLOSION
IN QUESNEL

S. Simpson: I am sure all members of the House today have a thought for the incident, the explosion yesterday
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in Quesnel. Thankfully, the reports are that there were no serious injuries in that event, but regardless of that, it can’t help but recall for all of us the situations that were more tragic in Babine and Lakeland.

I’m sure that even though there weren’t serious injuries, it has shaken the workers. It has shaken the community of Quesnel that this occurred. I know we all will wait for the report and, hopefully, a full understanding of what caused this to occur in Quesnel when it did.

For today, I’m sure we’re all thinking about the people of Quesnel and thankful that there weren’t the same kinds of tragic situations that we saw in Babine and Lakeland, but we still do need answers as to what did occur here yesterday.

Introduction and
First Reading of Bills

BILL 12 — FORESTS, LANDS AND
NATURAL RESOURCE OPERATIONS
STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2016

Hon. S. Thomson presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Statutes Amendment Act, 2016.

Hon. S. Thomson: I move that the Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Statutes Amendment Act, 2016, be introduced and read for a first time now.

Motion approved.

Hon. S. Thomson: Today, through this legislation, I introduce amendments to the Wildfire Act, the Forest Act and the Wildlife Act.

Proposed amendments to the Wildfire Act are designed to discourage human activities that interfere with firefighting activities and impose stiff new penalties. Proposed amendments to the Forest Act continue implementation of recommendations from B.C. Timber Sales effectiveness review and help provide security to users of residual fibre, such as pellet producers in the province’s interior. Proposed amendments to the Wildlife Act will facilitate the move to e-licensing for hunting licences, compulsory reporting, and requirements for on-line payments.

Together, these amendments support the B.C. Wildfire Service in protecting our communities from wildfire, promote further business certainty for the forest sector and continue streamlining permit and licence application processes for fish and wildlife.

[1015]

I move that the Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Statutes Amendment Act, 2016, be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

Bill 12, Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations Statutes Amendment Act, 2016, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

BILL M207 — GOVERNMENT RECORDS
ACCOUNTABILITY ACT

D. Routley presented a bill intituled Government Records Accountability Act.

D. Routley: I would like to introduce a private member’s bill, the Government Records Accountability Act, for first reading.

Motion approved.

D. Routley: The ongoing scandals related to the lack of creation of documents and the improper destruction of government records have led to the need for British Columbians to have renewed confidence that decisions by their government are available to them, that they have access to the information that those decisions were based on and that there be accountability for the improper destruction or mishandling of government documents.

In recent times, the triple-delete scandal has shown and re-emphasized the need for legislation that creates an obligation on the part of government to create documents and to properly manage those documents. Recently, in the last session, the government removed the Offence Act and penalties for government officials who improperly destroyed documents. This was done only mere days before the discovery of the triple-delete scandal.

This act will bring penalties to heads of public bodies or government officials who improperly destroy documents, and make the duty to document and create documents in the first place an obligation to government.

I move that this bill put on the order paper for the second reading at the next session of this House.

Bill M207, Government Records Accountability Act, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements
(Standing Order 25B)

FRANCES WASSERLEIN

M. Elmore: Frances Wasserlein was a feminist, historian and social activist who had a focus on issues surrounding women’s liberation. She was born in San Francisco, moved to Vancouver as a child and graduated from Little Flower Academy. She recently died, at age 69, and has left an enormous legacy and contribution to-
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wards social justice in our province, across our country and around the world.

She had pursued a master of arts degree in history and taught women’s and lesbian studies at Langara College and SFU. She also taught cultural management at Capilano University.

She was involved in setting up WAVAW, Women Against Violence Against Women, in 1982. She also worked for Vancouver Rape Relief and had a great contribution. She was involved with the Vancouver Women’s Caucus Abortion Caravan from Vancouver to Ottawa in 1970. She was involved in Women Against the Budget in 1983 and Operation Solidarity, organizing against the Social Credit government.

She ran for Vancouver city council and also in Halfmoon Bay, where she lived, on the Sunshine Coast. She was the festival producer for the Vancouver Folk Music Festival, participated in the anti-apartheid movement, was the chair of the Chrysalis Society and was honoured by the Atira Women’s Resource Society.

She was active in the Michigan Womyn’s Festival; formed the Sappho’s Circle on the Sunshine Coast, organizing the first pride dance; founded the port women’s resource women’s society; was involved with the Vancouver International Writers Festival and the Vancouver East Cultural Centre; was co-manager of the YWCA’s Munroe House; was on the arts board, the B.C. Arts Council; contributed research and writing for the Vancouver Women’s Research Centre; helped to found the Vancouver Montreal Massacre Memorial; ran the Honeysuckle Cottage. She got married to her beloved partner, Marguerite, on the Sunshine Coast.

I want to support the call to establish a Frances Wasserlein studio fund. There’s a GoFundMe page. She’s remembered fondly and dearly, and she’s in our hearts. I love her, miss her dearly and will continue to work for her vision of a better world, women’s liberation, humanity’s liberation.

[1020]

GIRLS’ AND WOMEN’S HOCKEY IN LUMBY
AND HOCKEYVILLE COMPETITION

E. Foster: My hometown of Lumby is very much like the other small towns in Canada. That is, we love hockey. We have an interesting problem in Lumby, though. Every year there are more and more girls signing up to play hockey. Let me be very clear. That’s not the problem.

The problem is with our facility, the Pat Duke Memorial Arena. Ladies hockey in Lumby has grown to the point that there are so many girls playing, both in the mixed hockey and also the ladies hockey teams, that we have a problem. That problem is we don’t have dressing rooms for these ladies. There is something that we can do about this — that we can all do about it — to improve the situation.

I am thrilled to announce that Lumby has been chosen as one of the top finalists, coast to coast, for this year’s Kraft Hockeyville award. We’re the only community in British Columbia to be picked in the top ten. Therefore, everyone in British Columbia can vote.

The winning community gets $100,000 towards renovations to their facility. The group in Lumby that put this forward — the proposal they put forward was to build dressing rooms for the girls and ladies that are playing hockey at the Pat Duke arena. What could be more fitting, when this week we recognize International Women’s Day?

Here’s what we have to do. I’m asking everyone right across British Columbia to cast their votes for Lumby when voting begins this Sunday, March 13, at 6 a.m., Pacific Standard Time. We have to act fast because the voting closes the following day, March 14, at 8:59 p.m. Pacific Standard Time, when the two towns with the most votes will be named. So please go to www.khv2016.ca or google Kraft Hockeyville.

The big thing about this, folks, as we all would love to see, is you can vote early and you can vote often. So please get behind Lumby’s opportunity.

PRINCE RUPERT CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
BUSINESS EXCELLENCE AWARDS

J. Rice: Just recently I had the pleasure of attending the Prince Rupert and District Chamber Of Commerce 2015 Business Excellence Awards. This year’s award ceremonies had a change of venue, with a Grammy-style night to it. In Prince Rupert, where gumboots are part of the regular business attire, there are few events we get dressed up for, and the Business Excellence Awards is one. This year the chamber spared no expense. There was a red carpet for nominees and their guests, a photo-shoot area, complete with backdrop, and a champagne reception.

The chamber hosts the Business Excellence Awards every year, and members can nominate local businesses in a number of categories.

The big winner of the evening was the Wheelhouse Brewing Co., who won Business of the Year award. The three men who started the Wheelhouse Brewery have seen immense amounts of success since they first opened their doors in 2013. Their hard work has paid off, because the Wheelhouse Brewery is the place to be after work on Fridays. Congratulations to the Wheelhouse Brewery on receiving the Business of the Year award.

A big congratulations to all of the winners and nominees for the 2015 excellence awards as well. I’d like to acknowledge the Young Entrepreneur of the Year, Kevin Pottle, from Lighten Up Electric. The Tourism and Hospitality Excellence award went to the Fresh Onion Café and Catering; the Sustainability Award, the Argosy antique shop; Rookie Business of the Year, Happy Little Clouds Art Studio; Retail Excellence, Eddie’s News Stand.

Industry and Manufacturing went to Lighten Up Electric again, and the Newsmaker of the Year was
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DP World. Home-Based Business, Ring System Music Studio; and the Best Family-Friendly Business, Good Times Games and Electronics. The Customer Service award went to Eddie’s News Stand, and the Community Service Award went to the Prince Rupert Rampage hockey team. Community involvement — well, Northern Savings Credit Union. The Member of the Year was the TD Bank. As I said, the Wheelhouse Brewery was made the Business of the Year.

I’d like particularly to acknowledge the Aboriginal Entrepreneurship Award, which went to Empire Tree Services, which was started by Vernon Baker with a hundred bucks in his pocket.

Madame Speaker: Member for Surrey–White Rock.

HOSTING OF 2016
RUGBY SEVENS WORLD SERIES

G. Hogg: Well, thank you, kind Speaker. If, as you suggested yesterday, I was dressed like Don Cherry, suitable for television, then today I’m dressed like Jim Hughson, sportscaster, suitable only for radio.

[1025]

One of the fastest-growing sports on earth is coming to Vancouver. Canada has been chosen to host the 2016 Rugby Sevens World Series at B.C. Place. Sevens rugby is a fast-paced, shorter version of traditional rugby, with only seven players per side. It has built an international audience and attracts large audiences in markets around the world. This prestigious event will feature 16 of the world’s top men’s rugby sevens teams. As testimony to the popularity of this event, the first run of tickets sold out and an additional 5,000 upper-bowl general admission tickets had to be released.

CEO of the HSBC Canada Sevens, Bill Cooper, said: “From the athletes themselves to our partners and sponsors to the members of the public who have already secured their tickets, everyone is playing a role in bringing this world-class sporting event to life.” The government has proudly contributed $245,000 to assist with the hosting and the broadcasting of this event.

Vancouver is not the only community in B.C. to benefit. The city of Langford will host the Women’s Sevens circuit on April 16-17 at Westhills Stadium. This is just one of the five world tournaments they are involved in, in preparation for the upcoming 2016 Summer Olympics being held in Rio de Janeiro.

Recently senior men’s national team and senior women’s national team representatives came to this Legislature to be recognized and to be thanked for their commitment to rugby and to Canada.

Please join me in wishing the very best to our men’s and women’s teams as they compete in one of the world’s most thrilling sporting championships, right here in British Columbia, the rugby sevens series.

WINDERMERE SCHOOL INITIATIVE
FOR EDUCATION OF GIRLS IN GHANA

A. Dix: Students at Windermere Secondary are well known for their involvement in the community. From food security to community service, hundreds of students volunteer all over Renfrew-Collingwood, many in supportive programs in local elementary schools.

A group of Windermere students is extending the reach of the school well beyond East Vancouver to western Africa. Students Michelle Zhen and Michelle Lan and their teams, working in partnership with Create Change, a local Vancouver non-profit, are raising money and support to give girls and young women in northern Ghana the opportunity to continue to attend school. The Windermere students were inspired by stories of many girls in that part of west Africa who have been forced into marriage or work at a very young age and denied access to education.

Create Change supports programs to allow girls to stay in school and is eventually hoping to create businesses and non-profit opportunities for graduates of these programs. The Windermere students have spoken to Aminatu, a student in northern Ghana, and learned of her struggles and her aspirations and interest in starting a business in her community.

Over the past two months, two teams of Windermere students have been promoting Create Change with other students and the community across Metro Vancouver. Each week they engage in fundraising challenges, from canvassing to the sale of valentine’s cards. In doing so, they are learning new skills and promoting an important cause.

As Nicole Lui, who met with me last week, says: “As a group, we aspire to bring change to the world and provide individuals with the same opportunities we have had.”

Congratulations to Michelle Lan, Nicole Lui, Shanisha Pillay, Doris Young, Ruby Li, Michelle Zhen, Shawna Turai, Angela Jiang, Cindy Nguyen and Sandra Zhen for their efforts to create change at Windermere and in northern Ghana.

UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON
PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES AND OPEN
DOOR WORKPLACE INCLUSION AWARDS

L. Larson: I would like to recognize the sixth anniversary of Canada’s ratification of the United Nations convention on the rights of persons with disabilities. This is the first international treaty that comprehensively recognizes the rights of people with disabilities, a convention working to guarantee human rights for an estimated 650 million individuals with disabilities around the world. Canada was one of the first countries to sign the convention, and we’re proud to recognize the anniversary.

Consistent with the UN convention, the Premier of British Columbia has also set a vision for B.C.: to
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become the most progressive province in Canada for people with disabilities by 2024. This vision is shared by all the organizations in British Columbia whose mandate is to make the lives of those living with disabilities better through research, individual supports, education and workplace training.

[1030]

One organization, Open Door, will again recognize individuals and businesses who have made inclusion an everyday priority through their B.C. Workplace Inclusion Awards that will be held on June 2. We are extremely fortunate to have so many partners throughout the province who work towards creating an inclusive environment for all.

Today’s anniversary is a good opportunity to reflect on how we all — individuals, businesses and organizations — can take action to create a more accessible and inclusive province. Please join me in recognizing this day and the many contributions and achievements of people living with disabilities in British Columbia.

Oral Questions

BUY LOCAL PROGRAM GRANT
TO SUNSHINE ORGANICS

L. Popham: Over the past two years, the B.C. Liberals have announced a number of Buy Local grants for B.C. agricultural businesses. The announcements are made with great fanfare and photo ops. Can the minister tell this House how much money government has spent on Buy Local programs?

Hon. N. Letnick: The Buy Local program is part of the huge success of agriculture in British Columbia. This last year alone we’ve seen a record increase in agrifood sales by 5.9 percent, $12.3 billion in agrifood sales — that $12.3 billion, the majority of which is right here in British Columbia and across our country, not to mention the record $3 billion in sales that we had exported to countries around the world. In particular, our partners in the United States took $2 billion of that.

We’re very proud of our Buy Local program, with $6 million committed over the last three years and another $2 million committed in this year’s balanced budget. We look forward to increased sales once again in the 2016 year.

Madame Speaker: The member for Saanich South on a supplemental.

L. Popham: On October 27, 2014, the Investment Agriculture Foundation wrote to a recipient of a $100,000 Buy Local grant called Sunshine Organics and outlined various problems with the company’s bookkeeping. The foundation copied Ministry of Agriculture officials and asked that the grant be returned to government.

Can the minister tell this House if these sorts of grants are regularly being taken back by government?

Hon. N. Letnick: I’d just like to continue on the great benefits of the Buy Local program — $6 million over the last three years, another $2 million committed in this year. But not only do we see $8 million from government’s treasury going to help agricultural producers connect with local people, that’s being more than matched by industry. It’s estimated that the $8 million, of taxpayer dollars, going through the Buy Local program will be more than $20 million in total, when you factor in the partnerships that we are getting from the private sector.

We fully support the Buy Local program. We fully support British Columbians doing what comes naturally, which is to buy B.C. products, and we’ll continue to do that on this side of the House.

Madame Speaker: Saanich South on a further supplemental.

L. Popham: Four days after the Investment Agriculture Foundation told Sunshine Organics that they wanted their money back, the deputy minister for Agriculture emailed the minister’s chief of staff and executives with government communication about the issue. This email has been completely severed under the policy advice section of the Freedom of Information Act.

Can the minister tell this House why his deputy minister’s advice on this grant would need to be severed under FOI?

[1035]

Hon. N. Letnick: Obviously, I don’t have any influence on the independent FOI branch and the decisions that they make. But I want to continue on the Buy Local program, since the member opposite has given me this opportunity.

Last year we had a record year in increases in asparagus, beets, cauliflower, peppers, cattle, milk, chicken, salmon and a record year in honey production, which the hon. member loves to expose. Over two million pounds in honey last year — 3.8 million pounds in 2015, almost double.

We’ll continue to grow agriculture on this side of the House. I just wish the member opposite would say yes to Buy Local, like all the other products that we do on this side of the House.

R. Austin: We were also a bit confused by this severing. After all, why would the deputy minister, a senior assistant deputy minister, the minister’s chief of staff and senior government communications officials need to be briefed about a $50,000 grant to a small Powell River company? Then we looked at the email trail. Who was emailing all those people, trying to ensure that Sunshine Organics got its grant? Ms. Judi Tyabji Wilson.
[ Page 11306 ]

Can the minister tell this House why Ms. Tyabji Wilson, who was neither an officer of Sunshine Organics nor a registered lobbyist, was so active in pursuing a grant that was later withdrawn?

Hon. N. Letnick: Again, I’d just like to repeat what I said before. I have no role in the independent FOI and what’s severed.

I’d like to continue on the great achievements of agriculture on this side of the House, farm cash receipts in B.C. We had a record year for tree fruits, cattle and calves, dairy, hogs — and honey, as I said — a record year in net cash income for our agricultural farms, increasing to $312 million last year. That’s with more than 32,000 hectares of land in the agricultural land reserve since 2001.

We will continue to protect agriculture on this side of the House. We will continue to make sure that we grow food for all British Columbians right here in British Columbia.

EMPLOYMENT PROGRAM GRANT AND
CONFLICT-OF-INTEREST CONCERNS
REGARDING JUDI TYABJI WILSON

M. Mungall: The story starts to get a little bit stranger. It turns out that at the very time government was talking to Ms. Tyabji Wilson about the grant for Sunshine Organics, they were awarding Ms. Tyabji Wilson her very own grant. On June 26, 2014, the former Minister of Social Development awarded Ms. Tyabji Wilson $128,000 in grants to start a social enterprise called Tanned, Wild and Woolly.

Can the Minister of Social Development tell the House what, exactly, government expected would be achieved with this $128,000 grant?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: What I can tell the member opposite is that the community employment partnerships that we run through the ministry are an important part of the employment partnership, EPBC.

In this particular situation, there were five individuals who were struggling to gain a foothold in the job market. They received five weeks of training and work experience to then move forward with the project, which is very well managed and evaluated according to strict guidelines within my ministry and has very professional standards.

Madame Speaker: Nelson-Creston on a supplemental.

M. Mungall: Well, in addition to being the spouse of the Premier’s LNG advocate, Ms. Tyabji Wilson is the president of Pebble in the Pond Environmental Society. She proposed forming a social enterprise that would spend $128,000 to train, as the minister said, five employment insurance recipients in how to tan sheepskins.

But here’s the thing. As part of the exercise, the new social enterprise would need to hire a full-time project supervisor to train the five employees to market the sheepskins, manage the grant, and so on. Can the Minister of Social Development tell the House who the society hired to manage the $128,000 in taxpayers’ money?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: It’s not uncommon for there to be amendments that are made within a community employment partnership on an ongoing basis as we work through the projects. There are certainly staff reports that are received by my staff that talk about the monthly activity, as well as the financial impacts and any reports that go on through the project as it’s going. Any amendments have to be approved by staff before changes are made.

[1040]

K. Conroy: Well, the society that Ms. Tyabji Wilson founded decided that the best person to manage this project was — wait for it — Ms. Tyabji Wilson. The Minister of Social Development awarded Ms. Tyabji Wilson a $128,000 grant to train five people, and the chief financial beneficiary ends up being Ms. Tyabji Wilson, who developed and applied for the grant in the first place.

Does the minister think that perhaps paying Ms. Tyabji Wilson $67,000 to supervise this project was a conflict of interest?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: The chief financial benefactors in this program are the five individuals who received the training and the skills development that they need to get a foothold in the job market.

Again, my ministry follows very strict guidelines and ensures that the processes are followed and that amendments, when they are made, are reviewed by staff and approved appropriately.

Madame Speaker: Kootenay West on a supplemental.

K. Conroy: Well, the minister’s staff does follow strict guidelines, and her staff did think that Ms. Tyabji Wilson was in a conflict of interest. One of her staff wrote: “There is a direct conflict of interest with the president of the non-profit being hired as a supervisor on the project…. This one looks especially bad, as the president was the one that submitted the application and has been the negotiator for the project.”

Does that minister agree with her staff’s assessment?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: Like I mentioned earlier, the staff receive monthly activity and financial reports. They follow very strict guidelines. They follow the processes to ensure that the participants, who are the most important people in this process, the ones who are gaining the job skills and the supports so that they can move on in
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the job market…. We are following the standards and the guidelines and ensuring that process is followed.

S. Robinson: Now, the minister’s staff didn’t just comment on conflict of interest. They also wrote: “I have some serious concerns about this project as it appears to be a business start-up, and I would question whether this is really the intent” of the job creation partnership.

The minister’s staff went on to question whether there was even a viable business plan, because they noted: “If it is going to be profitable even as a social enterprise, it needs to have a solid financial and business plan.”

Can the minister tell the House why, according to her staff, she appears to have funded a failed business where the primary financial beneficiary was Ms. Tyabji Wilson?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: Again, it is my expectation that my staff are doing their due diligence and following the guidelines and the protocols that are involved with the community employment partnerships. The focus is always on the training of the individuals who will receive future skills to move on into the job market. That is vitally important to the employment program of B.C. It’s part of our skills-for-jobs blueprint. It is how we are ensuring that people in this province are getting the job skills that they need to be productive in society.

Madame Speaker: The member for Coquitlam-Maillardville on a supplemental.

S. Robinson: Ms. Tyabji Wilson appears to be a very, very busy woman. As disclosed in her application, she planned to give this project $2,000 worth of consulting services, courtesy of her management consulting firm, Maradadi Pacific. And while she says she was working full-time as the Tanned, Wild and Woolly project supervisor, she was resigning as CEO of her software company, Tugboat Enterprises, selling it to a local investor, and she was being hired as the chief operating officer of the new firm Quantum Key Data Recovery.

[1045]

Ms. Tyabji Wilson was already working as a management consultant and as the COO of a software company. Can the minister explain how she believes that Ms. Tyabji Wilson would also find the time to work full-time as a taxpayer-funded project supervisor?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: Balance in life is always a challenge. I’m an Olympian. I’m a minister. I’m an MLA and a wife and a mother, so we all find ways.

There have been nearly 200 projects that have been approved through the community employment projects and 900 individuals who have gained experience — 900 individuals who now have better roots on the ground to gain a better future for themselves. The community employment partnership program is working, and every single project that is there, we work through it with the individuals to ensure success.

S. Simpson: Not only was there a clear conflict of interest, based on the views of the minister’s staff; the project was more than 40 percent over budget, ballooning from $128,000 to $181,000. Can the minister tell this House how that was good use of taxpayers’ money?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: Again, with these community employment partnerships, we often see that there are amendments that are made as projects encounter unforeseen circumstances, as over a course of the project, such things as additional operational costs or participants leaving the project due to outside employment opportunities. We have to be flexible with these projects, and that’s what we do within the ministry.

Madame Speaker: Vancouver-Hastings on a supplemental.

S. Simpson: Clearly, the minister’s flexibility on this is pretty high. The mismanagement wasn’t just financial, with a $53,000 cost overrun. It didn’t deliver on the performance side either.

The premise of Tanned, Wild and Woolly was to keep 1,000 sheepskins out of the landfill and make them into a marketable product. The reality is that they managed to process 148, less than 15 percent of what was originally promised.

Can the minister tell us whether the B.C. Liberal idea of performance is 40 percent over budget for less than 15 percent of the promised deliverables? Is that the Liberal idea of success?

Hon. Michelle Stilwell: What is successful is that five individuals received 50 weeks of training that will benefit them for life ongoing, building the skills that they need in the future. That’s what’s important.

M. Farnworth: Actually, maybe the Premier will be happy to answer the question I’m about to ask. The reality is that although just over 100, or 15 percent, of the sheepskins were eventually tanned, only 27 of them were ultimately sold. Not very successful.

But as part of the Premier’s biographer’s contract, one of the things that she did manage to do was to write a jingle for this company. Perhaps the Premier can tell the House: was the jingle a version of “Baa, Baa, Black Sheep” or “The Premier Had a Little Lamb”? It really doesn’t matter, because whatever it was, the taxpayers of this province have clearly been fleeced on this project.

Hon. C. Clark: No, I understand that it was the theme song for the upcoming sequel to V for Vendetta.

Madame Speaker: The member for Port Coquitlam on a supplemental.

[1050]

M. Farnworth: Well, then, perhaps the Premier can tell this House, now that she’s been on her feet, why her government would award a grant to the Premier’s biographer after the ministry determined that she would be in a conflict of interest. Perhaps she could tell the House why her government funded a start-up company that violated the conditions of the program. Perhaps the Premier can tell the House why her government then decided to increase the grant by 40 percent after it had been found to be in a conflict of interest.

Can the Premier tell this House why the taxpayers of this province were so badly fleeced by the Premier’s own biographer?

Hon. C. Clark: Well, I don’t have a biography, but I promise that when I do write my book, the member opposite will certainly be in it, and there will be lots of stories to tell about this time we’ve had in the House.

The minister has answered the questions that the members have put. I will say, in tribute to her and the work that she does…. A tremendous amount of focus on making sure that…. People who are struggling to get ahead, people who live with disabilities, people who are finding a way into the workforce are a major focus.

Interjections.

Madame Speaker: Members.

Hon. C. Clark: Our minister is someone who not only is a wife and a mother and a minister of the Crown; she’s also an Olympian. She understands how important it is that people who live with disabilities get every single opportunity they can to be able to enter into the workforce, participate in it and lead the kind of fulfilling life that work offers for people. That’s been a central focus for this minister. We are very, very proud of the work that she does and very proud of the work that the staff do in her ministry in supporting that.

We are changing lives in British Columbia through the work that she does. On behalf of everyone, at least on this side of the House, I’d like to say thank you.

WATER QUALITY IN SPALLUMCHEEN AREA

G. Heyman: When nitrogen levels in manure spray exceed what crops can absorb, the result is nitrate levels that continue to rise past danger levels. High nitrate levels are a serious health concern for infants less than six months old and for the elderly, and they can increase the risk of stomach cancer in adults.

It’s been two years since the Environment Ministry issued a compliance order limiting the ability of H.S. Jansen and Sons Farm to apply effluent to their field. Tests from Steele Springs in December and January measured nitrate concentrations more than double the goal laid out in the original compliance order. Spallumcheen and Hullcar Valley residents along with the Splatsin First Nation are fed up with this government’s failure to protect their drinking water. They’re legitimately worried about their health.

To the Environment Minister: in the face of mounting evidence, why won’t her government act to protect the Hullcar aquifer from increasing contamination?

Hon. M. Polak: First, let me clarify that the compliance order that was issued was not a one-time event. It was a compliance order that actually requires the person to do anything the ministry considers necessary to stop any contravention or prevent any other contravention. It allows for ongoing powers for the ministry to act, and they have been acting.

In fact, contrary to the perception that’s being created, the ministry, since that time, has been watching very closely activity on the farm in question and also has not, contrary to what has been insinuated, allowed for effluent spreading in some kind of an uncontrolled way and has denied that opportunity to the operation on a number of occasions.

I should make it clear, though, that this is a situation where we are advised by the experts who are with the Ministry of Health, who are with the Ministry of Environment that through their ongoing study, they have yet to identify a specific source of the nitrate contamination.

[1055]

They are working very closely, together with the Ministry of Agriculture, in order to do that, in order to develop a long-term plan to ensure we can improve the health of the aquifer. That work is ongoing, and we are, of course, taking very seriously the impact on the health and the environment of the surrounding area.

Madame Speaker: The member for Vancouver-Fairview on a supplemental.

G. Heyman: The Minister of Environment says that the ministry is taking continuing action and that the source has not yet been identified. But it’s clear from reports that there is only one farm large enough to likely be the source when the nitrogen load continues to grow and Steele Springs’ nitrate levels have risen 11 percent over the last two years.

Residents have received help from a professional agrologist, whose low-range estimate for the Jansen’s farm shows an excess of nitrogen. The agrologist’s comment was: “The farmer should be nailed to the wall for what he has been doing for years.” Yet this government not only
[ Page 11309 ]
allows the spraying of liquid manure to continue and the risk to continue to escalate; it flaunts its own information laws and forces residents to do their own water testing.

When will the Environment Minister listen to local residents and First Nations and protect their basic right to clean, safe water?

Hon. M. Polak: There’s no question that the Ministry of Environment staff in the regional operations branch have been absolutely diligent in terms of conducting their testing. They commenced monthly sampling in February of last year. Those samples have been taken once per month since. Those sample results are provided to the Steele Springs water district within seven days, once they receive the results. If the samples exceed the Canadian drinking water guidelines, those are provided to the Ministry of Agriculture, Interior Health and the town of Spallumcheen.

The last sample was taken on February 23. The results were received from the lab on February 29 then provided on March 7 to the Steele Springs water board.

The regional operations branch…. This goes to the point of can we pinpoint a source. They recently took samples from eight sites in the Hullcar Valley, provided their findings in a memo. This memo was provided to the Save Hullcar Aquifer Team; Chief Wayne Christian; chief of the Splatsin First Nation; Interior Health Authority; Ministry of Agriculture. All of that is available in the environmental impact assessment memo that is currently on the Ministry of Environment’s website.

We take this very seriously, and we will continue to do the work needed to identify the source and to deal with it.

G. Holman: The minister needn’t look for compelling evidence of the drinking water health hazard. It’s there for all to see in the decision of Interior Health to issue a water quality advisory in 2014, an advisory that’s still in effect. Based on the agrologist’s report, Spallumcheen residents believe that two more years without corrective action will see nitrate levels rise over 20 percent since the 2014 advisory.

Residents can’t understand why the Minister of Environment refuses to do anything. Is the minister waiting for a serious health tragedy before she finally takes action to protect water?

Hon. M. Polak: The fact of the matter is that these results have not remained at the same level consistently throughout the entire period that there have been concerns raised. Nitrate levels tend to rise and fall depending on weather, depending on the time of year. In addition to that, as we know from the test results, it is impossible at this stage to identify any single point source for the nitrate contamination. The testing that is being conducted ensures that those who are resident in the area are being provided with the most up-to-date health information with respect to their water.

We will continue to work with Interior Health to make sure that their health is the number one criteria for the work we do in ensuring that we have the best plan going forward to try and improve the health of this aquifer.

Madame Speaker: Saanich North and the Islands on a supplemental.

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G. Holman: Residents are concerned that the minister is fiddling while their water is being polluted. They want changes to effluent disposal methods that will ensure their water is safe to drink. Hullcar Valley and Spallumcheen residents and the Splatsin First Nation are united in their anger about the polluted water situation.

The Steele Springs waterworks board has repeatedly asked government and local authorities to take seriously the threat that excessive nitrate levels pose to infants, adults and seniors. The freedom-of-information commissioner is investigating the ministry’s failure to follow its own law and proactively release information on public health concerns.

To the Environment Minister: why won’t this government recognize the gravity of the situation and take the health concerns of local residents seriously?

Hon. M. Polak: I will provide for the member, once again, the actions that the ministry is taking, together with Interior Health. Monthly testing — monthly testing that is reported directly to the water board any time that there are exceedances in terms of the drinking water quality standards in terms of nitrates. That is reported to Interior Health. They take action immediately to notify residents if there is any cause for concern.

In addition to that, we are currently conducting additional work together with Interior Health, Ministry of Agriculture and Ministry of Environment to make long-term plans to ensure that the aquifer’s health over the long term can be improved.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Madame Speaker: Hon. Members, I have the honour to present the Annual Report of the Legislative Library of British Columbia, 2012-2014.

J. Darcy: I seek leave to make an introduction.

Madame Speaker: Please proceed.

Introductions by Members

J. Darcy: I’m very pleased to welcome to this precinct today 40 students and three parents and teacher Suzanne MacLeod from the Urban Academy in New Westminster.
[ Page 11310 ]

I would ask the MLAs from both sides of this House to make them very welcome in the people’s House.

Orders of the Day

Hon. M. de Jong: In Committee A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, the ongoing estimates of the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations.

In this chamber, the first order of business — Bill 10, third reading.

Madame Speaker, I move third reading of Bill 10.

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Third Reading of Bills

BILL 10 — BUDGET MEASURES
IMPLEMENTATION ACT, 2016

Bill 10, Budget Measures Implementation Act, 2016, read a third time and passed on the following division:

[1110]

Hon. M. de Jong: That brings us to continued second reading debate on Bill 7.

Second Reading of Bills

BILL 7 — INDUSTRY TRAINING
AUTHORITY AMENDMENT ACT, 2016

(continued)

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

D. McRae: I am very pleased today to rise and speak to Bill 7, which is the Industry Training Authority Amendment Act, 2016. If I may begin my remarks with a bit of a prefacing here.

I’m excited to see that this government and this legislation recognizes that the skills-training element of our society needs to continually evolve, improve and serve the needs of the employers, the industry, the employees and the young people today. At the same time, it’s to recognize that you want to make sure that you do not think you’ve got the job done. It needs to be continually revised and improved to make sure that the men and women — young men and women, often — who are deciding to go into the skilled trades are ready to go there and are able to find those employment opportunities.

I know, as members in this chamber know, that the ITA is the Crown corporation responsible for leading B.C.’s trades-training system. It was created in 2004. Now, in that time, the world has changed, and it has changed continually, as we all know, for decades. But it’s essential that skills training continually adapts.

I think back to the decades that I have had the chance to live and reflect, perhaps, on how we’ve treated trades as a society. They’ve always been there. They’ve always been absolutely essential to the well-being of this economy, and thank goodness, we’ve had great men and women go into that area. I think back to the times when I was in high school, in the 1980s. It was a challenge in high schools to actually have the guidance to think about an opportunity to go into skills training.

I think many times what happened is the school counsellors were predisposed, often. If you were good at high school or successful at school, they wanted to push you into college or university pathways.

In fact, I remember very distinctly that when I was in grade 12 in the 1980s, I decided, for whatever reason, that math 12 and myself did not get along and that I would actually remove myself from math 12 at the high school level. It was a challenge to the counsellors. They weren’t sure, if you didn’t take math 12, if you could actually go and have a successful university experience.

After, believe it or not, faxes and phone calls and confirmation, they were surprised to learn — and this wasn’t that long ago — that you actually could go to places like UBC. You could get an undergraduate degree, and you didn’t actually need to have math 12.
[ Page 11311 ]

I think what happened back in the day was it was all about…. If you were going off to graduate from high school and you were academically successful, there was sort of this little envelope of, “These are the eight or nine courses you take. Take those courses. Off you go. Go off and become an engineer, a doctor, a lawyer, a teacher, a nurse” — whatever it was — “at university,” and you sort of follow that easy path.

I know from my time there with my friends and my peers in the ’80s, going into the trades was not encouraged, either by teachers, by counsellors or by parents. It just wasn’t seen as, necessarily, the first choice.

I distinctly remember a young man, who I thought was one of the more intelligent classmates of mine, went into heavy-duty diesel mechanics, and people thought: “Well, why are you doing that?” Now the reality is, to see him at the 20th high school reunion, that he has done incredibly well, had a very successful career and had a chance to work not just in British Columbia, not just in Canada, but around the world.

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As a high school teacher — I think most people in the chamber know I did teach in the school system from the early ’90s to 2009 — it was nice to see, during that 15- or 16-year period, that the skilled trades were becoming more important. They were becoming far more accepted. If you were good in the high school system — when I say good, you were a successful student, maybe even a very strong student — by all means, they encouraged you to do the traditional academic pathways, as well, but there was still an improvement, a desire to see people think about going into skills training.

I will argue that in the time since I left the school system in 2009 to today, the importance of, the understanding of and the opportunities for skills training has never been highlighted more in the K-to-12 system by our society than it is today.

I will say that it is a reflection of the work of this government but also the work of the ITA and the work of employers and employees to make sure people understand just how important for the well-being of this province and this nation it is that we have strong men and women go into these areas, and they can have absolutely gainful employment and be incredibly successful and have very few limitations.

In fact, I would argue that sometimes going off to the academic side of university limits you far more than going into skills training. Just look at the numbers. Today there are 35,000 registered apprentices that we have in British Columbia. We have more than doubled the number in the last 12, 13 years — definitely a testament to the work of ITA and industry.

Today we’ve seen the number of seats available to skills training, in just the last six years, increase by 19 percent. And in 2013, the last numbers I was able to see for certificates or qualifications that were awarded to journeypersons, it was over 8,000 individuals that were to receive those certificates. That is triple since 2005. There are incredible individuals going into these areas, and they know that there is huge opportunity for them.

I think back just to my experience in our community. If you look at school district 71, if I just pick it at random, what can you do? You can start your skills training just at the age of 15, 16, 17 years old. As a teacher, it is so essential that when young men and women are in those high school years, they have attached meaning to their education and they see an end result of their hard work. It’s exciting to see that now young men and women, at a very young age, can start making choices that actually allow them to take electives and take courses that will allow them to transition into apprenticeship opportunities and to job opportunities.

Just in one school district alone, through the ACE IT–type programs in school district 71 — remember, we’re a relatively small school district, outside of the Lower Mainland, outside of Victoria — you can take courses in automotive training, carpentry, cooking, welding, electrical, hairdressing, heavy-duty mechanics, plumbing and others. And the opportunity of taking those courses allows you to begin your skills training along the way.

You get credits for graduation. And most importantly — what makes me really excited, as a teacher — it allows students who perhaps might not have been successful in school to see the value, the meaning to continue to take courses in high school, to put their efforts in there because they know they will get something out of it.

That being said, you can never rest on your laurels. I was really pleased to see, in 2013, the Premier and Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training recognize that they need to…. You know, don’t think it’s just good enough today. Jessica McDonald, obviously, was appointed to review the ITA and ensure the ITA is meeting its targets and making sure that it’s actually staying completely relevant and moving forward.

When this act becomes a law, it fits in a couple of areas. First of all, it’ll set out the purpose of the ITA and confirm its roles in the B.C. trades-training system. No purpose statement currently exists in the legislation, as I understand it now.

It will require the ITA to develop and implement a multi-year strategic plan to achieve priorities and targets. It will require the ITA to engage with stakeholders to provide advice and recommendations on the development and implementation of a strategic plan.

What does that mean? It means that they’re continually looking at the needs of the employers and the needs of our society and making sure that they are reacting accordingly to make sure that we have the skilled trades necessary as we go forward.

It’s no surprise demographically, when you look at British Columbia and when you look at Canada, that there are going to be huge opportunities for young people.
[ Page 11312 ]
At the same time, if we don’t actually prepare for it, our society will actually be at a disadvantage.

Why? Well, look at the baby boomers. An incredible number of people will be having the opportunity to retire in the very near future. These opportunities make sure…. When someone leaves after 20, 30 years working in a profession, we want to make sure there are individuals, British Columbians, who are there to take on those jobs.

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Why? Well, the nice thing about British Columbia, hon. Speaker — you may be aware — is we’re actually leading the country in economic growth. We’re leading the country in opportunities for employment in this nation, and we want to make sure that B.C. young men and women who are graduating from high school and people who are perhaps considering a retraining opportunity are able to stay in this province, contribute in this province and raise their families in a way that they won’t be able to unless they have the proper training.

I’m excited. It’s just unbelievable. They often talk about the million jobs that will be available to individuals in the coming decade. Yes, LNG is a huge opportunity. Why? Well, $20 billion has already been spent in British Columbia by companies exploring this opportunity. When they make that final investment decision — and some will — there’ll be jobs attached to that. Who do we want first in line to work in those jobs? We want to make sure that, through the work of the ITA and this bill, those individuals are British Columbian individuals first and foremost. We want to make sure that we’re there.

Site C, as it goes forward — huge economic opportunities for people.

There is also the other thing that is often not spoken of. As we work hard in this province, individuals have made decisions — sadly, because of economic downturns in places like Alberta — to come back to British Columbia. We want to make sure….

Some of those individuals will have recognized that they were able to do a certain amount of work in Alberta. But you know what? With a bit more a training or a bit more effort on their part, they might be able expand their employment horizons, maybe the amount of money they make, the job they do, where they do it. So there’ll be a chance for individuals, perhaps, to go back to school and have that chance, again, to get a job that’s really meaningful to them.

Through this bill…. I know it’s really important. In Jessica McDonald’s report, there were, I think, 29 recommendations. Well, the aspects of this will actually help improve 18 of those recommendations. It will make sure that the ITA stays relevant. It’ll make sure young people are more prepared as they go into the workforce. It will help guide school districts as they go forward and make sure that they are helping prepare young men and women to better engage in the working environment.

It’s things like this that show that B.C. is leading the country in terms of being innovative, being thoughtful, being forceful, to make sure that we are doing the right thing to make sure that British Columbians have access to B.C. jobs first.

I would applaud both the minister and this bill, and I applaud Jessica McDonald — the work she’s done. I applaud that the ITA recognizes that they need to constantly revise, improve and build upon the needs of our society. For those reasons, I stand in full support of Bill 7.

M. Elmore: I’m very pleased to rise and speak to Bill 7, intituled the Industry Training Authority Amendment Act.

We have a history of mismanagement of our apprenticeship program in British Columbia at the hands of the B.C. Liberal government. Now, with the recognition of the demand and need for skilled tradespeople in our economy, particularly driven by the request and requirement to develop the liquefied natural gas industry, we see attempts to basically clean up the mess that has been the result of many years of mismanagement and, really, the dismantling of a previously successful apprenticeship program that British Columbia enjoyed.

When we look at the need and the contribution of skilled trades, the importance of that to our economy, it is recognized. Certainly, when we look at, in terms of the workforce and moving forward, ensuring that we have a strong economy, skilled tradespeople play a critical role in that. Whether it be in construction, whether it be in industry, whether it be in mining or any number of different industries, we know that the need and the requirement for skilled tradespeople is an integral component.

In particular, the requirement for skilled workers is even more pressing as we’re coming up on the retirement of many baby boomers, as experienced in many other industries, really seeing increasing retirements and a need to fill that demand. There’s an even bigger and pressing need for skilled tradespeople.

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When we look at what has been the history and where we are today, in terms of the need to really rebuild a functional apprenticeship system, we know that through the 1960s to the ’90s, the completion rate for folks pursuing a trade was averaging between 60 and 80 percent.

These are individuals who, some of them, from an early age had an interest in the trades or had the opportunity to take courses through high school, develop an interest in a number of areas. They pursued their education, got a certificate, entered the apprenticeship program and, through very many classifications and categories, fulfilled their requirements to be certified. We saw a completion rate from that period of anywhere between 60 and 80 percent.

In 2002, the Liberal government was responsible for ending their involvement in apprenticeship education. The result of that, in 2011, was a completion rate of only 43 percent, falling very short.

When we look at the comparison of the functioning
[ Page 11313 ]
of the apprenticeship system from the ’60s to ’90s and under the B.C. Liberals, we see that the completion rate fell to 43 percent. That can be traced back to, in 2002, the record of the B.C. Liberal government shutting down the Industry Trades and Apprenticeship Commission — this was a proven partnership of industry, labour, educators and government — which led to a decline in the number of successful applicants through their careers to become certified as tradespeople. It’s what we basically characterized as bringing in an unproven and privatized system governed solely by industry with the exclusion of organized labour.

The previous successful model that contributed toward ensuring that British Columbians have opportunities to undertake their passion and become professionals in their chosen field as tradespeople…. Recognizing the successful model that saw and supported a higher completion rate for individuals going through the program, through a partnership of industry, labour, educators and government…. That was a successful model that this government dismantled.

We are now, in 2016, looking at a system that has been dismantled, that has created a mess in terms of the ability to ensure that individuals are able to successfully complete apprenticeship training — and a very low completion rate.

Why has it been so low? Where do we need to go? What is the way forward in terms of ensuring that British Columbians have the opportunity to fulfil their requirements, to have opportunities for apprenticeship and, at the end, to come out successfully, to certify as a tradesperson and to be able to apply their skills here in British Columbia?

We know that part of the reason why the completion rate has been so low is the record of this government, the B.C. Liberals, cutting counsellors. They recognize that that was a contributing factor — not having that infrastructure and support for students to really navigate their way through not only the completion of their courses but through the apprenticeship program and through those years of providing support for these individuals.

Now we know that this has contributed and that the government has recognized that and reinstated counsellors.

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I want to make the point, as well, that the ability for students to access training and to access apprenticeships also really contributes. We have to ensure that these opportunities are provided to all British Columbians — particularly to students, to women, as well as students and young people from diverse communities, from the First Nations indigenous communities, immigrant communities. We know that these individuals are under-represented and that steps have to be taken to ensure that those opportunities are provided and that those students are supported through their process and transition.

Because of the lack of participation and because of the lack of labour and being able to participate as a full partner, as a stakeholder, we have not seen, in my view, the appropriate supports provided to students from marginalized communities, to women who are historically under-represented in trades. Trades are a great opportunity and a great career. We need to see support from the government to ensure that students are successful to complete their apprenticeship training.

I want to talk about the importance and the contribution and the role, as well, that the government can play to ensure that women are better represented in apprenticeships and are supported, encouraged to consider undertaking apprenticeship training and to consider the trades as an occupation. We know that it’s thought of, generally, as an area that has been…. We’ve seen the majority as men, being professionals.

There’s more that we can do, as a province, to ensure that women see this as an opportunity and that supports are in place to encourage more women to participate. I recently attended to celebrate International Women’s Day at the Vancouver and District Labour Council. It was a great celebration. Nearly 400 women were there.

The theme was “Women in trades.” We heard the keynote speeches and testimonials and the sharing of stories from women in the trades and their experience in pursuing their passions and also working to ensure that they encouraged more women to get involved, that there was support for women to consider trades as an option and also to ensure that women were supported through the successful completion on their career path. That’s through completing their studies, to the apprenticeship training, and ensuring that not only more women were recruited into the trades but that they were supported to successfully complete their certification and that there was also the ability to retain them.

We have an infographic. It’s looking at what the current picture is, what the story is of women in trades. While, of course, over 50 percent of the population is made up of women, we have under 10 percent of apprentices are women, falling far below what we would expect as a representative proportion of women entering the trades.

It’s not just one question. It’s not one thing in terms of why there aren’t more women. We heard from one of the speakers at the dinner who entered and was an instructor of shop in high school, shop class. She said that when she first started teaching, in the ’80s, she was one of two women teaching shop and mechanics in high school, throughout British Columbia.

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That picture has changed. We have more women who are teaching shop and auto mechanics, and that’s often a first step in terms of encouraging women to consider doing non-traditional work and getting involved. It’s important to expose women to and open up those fields and to have women, as students, consider that as an option. That has changed.
[ Page 11314 ]

One of the points that was made to me is that while there are more women coming in and participating in either taking shop or mechanics at high school or also entering trades training at the post-secondary level, it has remained…. What they shared is that it’s been quite static — that about 2 to 3 percent of all tradespeople are women.

While there are more women entering, there are not as many really staying on. It’s a question of retention as well. This is one of the areas that we can do a better job in.

I know that the women-in-trades program has proposed…. They’re lobbying across the country to talk about and to take steps to encourage women to consider the trades and to also promote models that have been proven to support women in the trades and to not only support their successful completion of their certification but ensure they stay in the job.

Really, a consistent theme was the challenge to ensure that workplaces were respectful and that women felt comfortable, that it was harassment-free. That is quite a common theme in terms of the challenges to retain women and to ensure that they feel they are welcome in the workplaces.

That is one of their recommendations — the Build Together Women of the Building Trades. They have a national Build Together program and a national group of tradeswomen and also provincial councils. We have one in British Columbia. They are advancing that, working with and supported by the various national groups of the Canadian building trades. They are promoting and have support for the women-in-trades program.

There is a successful model being used in Newfoundland, which is the office to advance women apprenticeships in Newfoundland. One of the key features of that is that they have measurable data. They track it — how many women have come into apprenticeship, how many go through to licensing and, also, how many actually stay in their trade in their field.

That’s one of the missing pieces. We don’t have those statistics. It’s an important component in terms of being able to measure that. Certainly, that’s an important feature that we could look to implement here in British Columbia.

Also, the successful model in Newfoundland looks to create jobs and create partnerships with industry, to provide mentorship to change the culture and to ensure that workplaces are respectful. An important feature of the office is that they’re independent. They are independent from industry. They are an independent office of government. They work together in partnership with the stakeholders to support women coming into the trades.

The point, as well, when…. We talk about what the values are of not just ensuring that women see trades as an option and are successful through the process — and their efforts to ensure that workplaces are respectful and free of harassment — but that it also improves the workplace for all workers and contributes to the success for the companies they work for, for the contractors, and certainly contributes to the quality of the projects they work on and the many sites they’re involved in.

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Retention is a huge issue. A partnership with various unions, government and non-union contractors is important to ensure that workplaces are respectful and that we have a successful and thriving industry.

We see, as well, that certainly in British Columbia, we can take steps and learn from successful programs that are being implemented in Newfoundland. There’s also a federal bill dealing with women and pregnancy in the trades and a national strategy looking at that. While these are initiatives that we’ve seen come in through the public service, through other industries and sectors of our economy, this is also an issue that is a reality for women, of course, being successful in the trades.

I want to conclude my remarks soon and to reiterate my support and also urge the government to ensure that we take steps to support women, visible minorities, First Nations people to consider trades as a career option. Also ensure that they have the support — that all people going through trades training have support — so that we can increase the completion rate so that all these individuals are able to become certified, to become successful in the job market, to contribute to the companies that they work for. And ensure that we have the skilled workers that we need in our province and that all British Columbians have these opportunities for a great career in the trades, pursuing their passions and enjoying a respectful and harassment-free workplace.

S. Gibson: It’s good to be here today representing my constituents in the Abbotsford-Mission riding, British Columbia’s first riding — alphabetically.

I’m going to be speaking today about Bill 7, the Industry Training Authority Amendment Act — speaking in support, of course. It’s important legislation that’s going to align the Industry Training Authority’s focus with the skills-for-jobs blueprint.

The ITA is an important resource that’s supporting the building of a skilled workforce for the future, working with employers, employees, industry, labour. The ITA coordinates the province’s skilled trades program through credentials, managing apprenticeships, setting program standards and increasing opportunities in the trades.

The accomplishments are well regarded. Look at the numbers: 10,000 registered employers sponsoring apprentices; 39,000 registered apprentices in the industry training program, more than double the number in 2004, when ITA was created; 65,000 certificates of qualification have been issued to journeypersons since that year; 100 different program apprenticeships coordinated, including almost 50 Red Seal trades. That’s the amount our government invests — $94 million annually — in industry trades training through the ITA.

This government understands the necessity of a skilled and innovative workforce. As someone who taught uni-
[ Page 11315 ]
versity students for 16 years, I can attest that the training and education is essential for the future of our province. That’s why we’ve increased funding for the ITA by nearly $8 million over three years. It’s important we continue to strengthen and improve the ITA so it’s better equipped to respond to the demands of our growing market.

Population growth, retirements and new industries are going to yield thousands of exciting jobs across the province in many sectors of a growing economy. Alongside new and emerging sectors, traditional ones, like the resources and construction sectors, will continue to contribute an important role to our province’s prosperity.

All of these factors will require a workforce that has the skills and experience to meet the demands of a 21st-century economy. It’s essential, too, that our province provides resources for young British Columbians to find where their passions lie and explore careers in the skilled trades and technology — so many opportunities just waiting for our young people.

[1145]

Through apprenticeships and other training opportunities, B.C. youth will be better equipped to gain experience in important sectors to build the future of our great province.

I want to mention what the ITA has been doing in my own constituency. For the past couple of years, the Abbotsford school district has received $40,000 from the ITA for a secondary school apprenticeship program. Across the river on the north side of my riding, the Mission school district has received $20,000 for the secondary school apprenticeship program. These programs are great, because they place students in grades 10 to 12 with local employers, where they can gain practical experience in the trade of their choice while completing the credits for their high school diploma.

The earn and learn concept is beneficial to both students and the employer. Students benefit from gaining practical experience in an apprenticeship while still getting those high school credits towards their diploma.

Employers benefit from the program because they earn a tax credit for taking on an apprentice as a part of the program, and they also have the benefit of training and mentoring students for a unique marketplace. Hopefully, after graduation, students will be able to land a job at these companies. At the very least, the students will come out with the experience they need to achieve success.

With over 100 programs offered by ITA, as I mentioned a moment ago, there is plenty of choice for students. The registration numbers for the secondary school apprenticeship program keep rising. In the school year of 2014 right through to 2015, there were 10,000 students who were registered in the apprenticeship programs across B.C. That’s 2004 to 2015. This represents an increase of more than 10 percent over 2013-2014.

Our youth play a pivotal role in filling the jobs that will be opening up in the very near future. We expect that there will be one million job openings by 2022 in our province, and 440,000 of these will be in the skilled trades and technical occupations. The ITA is a significant part of ensuring that British Columbians are able to fill these positions, which brings us to the bill we’re talking about.

Now, these amendments included in this bill, with several recommendations in the independent review of the ITA…. That was completed just a few years ago, in 2014. Bill 7 will set the strategic direction and priorities for the ITA, and the legislation will set out the purpose of the ITA and confirm its role in British Columbia’s trades-training program. Additionally, Bill 7 will require the authority to develop and implement a multi-year strategic plan to achieve priorities and targets set by this government.

As it stands, no purpose statement currently exists with the ITA’s legislation. This could possibly give some confusion and, potentially, misdirection. The legislation will require the ITA to engage with stakeholders to provide advice and recommendations on the development implementation of the strategic plan. A key part of the work is understanding what industry looks like in the labour force and how we can help workers adjust to changing demands. Mandating that the ITA consult with stakeholders will help it to develop effective policies, benefiting both industry and labour.

Finally, there are some minor housekeeping measures updating several administrative sections of the legislation to ensure that it conforms with other Crown corporations.

The future belongs to provinces which can anticipate and respond to the changes in our labour market. This bill will put our province in a better position to leverage resources like the ITA to build a 21st-century workforce for our 21st-century economy. I’m very pleased to be here today to speak to this, to speak in favour, and it’s a pleasure for me to support this today.

J. Darcy: I’m pleased to take my place in the debate on Bill 7, the Industry Training Authority Amendment Act. I will begin my remarks now — I assume, probably to be continued after lunch.

There are some important steps forward, certainly, in this bill that flow from the 2014 review of the ITA, and as such, together with my caucus colleagues, we will be supporting the bill.

[1150]

Having said that, there is a very important element missing, which I want to speak to. The review of the ITA by Jessica McDonald in 2014 said, among other things, that organized labour should have a greater involvement in the ITA, in the Industry Training Authority, but this legislation does not seem to recognize that.

Specifically, when it deals with the important issue of developing a three-year strategic plan, it says very specifically that there should be consultation with industry but not with the organizations that represent the work-
[ Page 11316 ]
ing people, the skilled tradespeople who are absolutely vital to the success of an apprenticeship program. If we are going to maximize the potential for growing apprenticeships in the province of British Columbia, thus growing the economy and also improving our public services and the role of tradespeople in delivering those public services, I think that’s a very, very important omission and an unfortunate one.

Until there were sweeping changes made after the B.C. Liberals came to office 15 years ago, employers and unions had a very long tradition of partnering to train the province’s future generation of workers. As I’m sure people on both sides of this House understand, in most trades apprenticeships, 75 to 80 percent of the training takes place on the job. Collaboration at every level, between employers and unions representing skilled trades workers, is critical to the success of those programs.

In my constituency of New Westminster, we’re very lucky to have the headquarters of the B.C. Building Trades Council, which represents 35,000 construction workers in over a dozen different trades across British Columbia.

[Madame Speaker in the chair.]

The B.C. Building Trades, as the predominant organization representing skilled trades workers, certainly know of what they speak, and they practise what they preach. They invest over $13 million annually in training programs. They are the single largest sponsor of apprenticeship programs in the province, with an average completion rate of 85 percent.

Partnership with the people who are involved directly in those apprenticeships, providing so many of the mentors, the skilled tradespeople who work with apprentices…. Real partnership with them is absolutely critical to the future and the success of apprenticeship programs. The reality is that labour organizations, in partnership with employers, are the largest single sponsor of B.C.’s apprentices who complete the Red Seal training.

The Red Seal training. Construction union joint boards alone account for a third of Red Seal completions. The building trades unions themselves, as I’ve mentioned, invest over $13 million, supporting over 100 staff to oversee those training programs. Despite that comprehensive role of building trades unions and of other unions who represent skilled trades workers in trades training, this bill does not enshrine the kind of involvement that representatives of skilled trades workers absolutely should have at every level if we’re going to ensure the greatest possible success.

I want to speak, in particular, about…. Traditionally, when we think of apprenticeships and when we think of skilled trades workers, we think of industry, we think of building trades, and we think of construction. We don’t think so often of the public sector. In particular, I don’t think we think so often about skilled trades workers in health care, but I think it’s critically important.

Public infrastructure projects and public institutions are also very, very important opportunities for apprenticeship training that exist both in construction of those public projects and facilities and also in maintenance operations in public buildings and facilities. Government can play a direct role in promoting, supporting and expanding opportunities for apprenticeship programs.

Public employers are also in a unique position to promote trades-training opportunities for non-traditional groups in trades occupations — First Nations youth, women and people with different abilities. Yet this government refuses, as a matter of public policy, to ensure that public infrastructure programs and public institutions and public facilities have robust apprenticeship programs.

[1155]

Let me speak for a minute about the importance of skilled trades workers in health care and the critical role that apprenticeships can also play in health care. If you’ve ever utilized a hospital elevator, relied on lights to lead you through a facility’s winding corridors or stairwells — I’ve certainly made my way through many of those hallways and corridors in health care institutions — found relief in a heated or an air-conditioned hospital unit, used washroom facilities or a hospital switchboard, tradesworkers in health care are behind that work.

They are also responsible for the safe and continuous operation of a facility’s infrastructure, its equipment, its energy and plant systems as well as its air and water quality. The jobs of skilled trades workers in health care include electricians, cooks, power engineers, carpenters, boiler operators, radiographic processor maintainers, mechanics, painters, welders, electronic technicians, maintenance supervisors, among others, in dozens of different classifications.

Their roles are all vital in keeping life-saving systems in health care functioning, including oxygen, life support, medical gases and emergency backup generators. They’re also responsible for smoke- and fire-control testing, building or renovating nursing stations, isolating ventilation systems to contain airborne contaminants. They are, in fact, within health care, the front-line emergency responders also for such crises as floods, hazardous spills, natural disasters and electrical failures.

On that note, and noting the hour, I would conclude my remarks and reserve my place to continue in the debate.

J. Darcy moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Committee of Supply (Section A), having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.
[ Page 11317 ]

Hon. T. Lake moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Madame Speaker: This House, at its rising, stands adjourned until 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

PROCEEDINGS IN THE
DOUGLAS FIR ROOM

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
ABORIGINAL RELATIONS
AND RECONCILIATION

(continued)

The House in Committee of Supply (Section A); G. Kyllo in the chair.

The committee met at 11:19 a.m.

On Vote 11: ministry operations, $39,211,000 (continued).

Hon. J. Rustad: Glad to be back. If I may take a moment just as we start, Trish Balcaen, one of our chief negotiators, is joining us here today as well. I wanted to recognize her and thank her for her work.

[1120]

S. Fraser: Thanks to the minister and staff for being here, and welcome.

Just for the minister’s edification, I think we’ve got the afternoon, so not just the few minutes that we have left in this….

Interjection.

S. Fraser: Okay. That’s what my understanding is too — so just checking that out.

I’d just like to do a couple of follow-up questions. People evidently do watch these proceedings. There’s an issue we dealt with, with the Acho Dene Koe, the northern First Nation that’s a transboundary nation, involving northern British Columbia, the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. If I may just add a couple of questions to that to finalize that section of my estimates.

Why is B.C. avoiding Acho Dene Koe’s claim in B.C. when it is the only aboriginal tribe in that part of British Columbia? Acho Dene Koe has aboriginal title, as its final agreement has a certainty model that modifies aboriginal rights and does not affect its aboriginal rights in B.C. or Yukon. Again, why is B.C. avoiding this claim?

Hon. J. Rustad: We did canvass around this yesterday, so I appreciate that he is raising other questions. But just for clarity around this, the Acho Dene Koe is part of treaty 11. Of course, treaty 11 does not extend into British Columbia. They do have rights that do…. I shouldn’t say they do have rights, but I believe there is the claim of rights, and I suspect that is the case in terms of going into British Columbia.

Where there are activities in the area I can’t say for certain. But I’m sure if you were to ask, for example, Forests or Natural Gas Development if there are activities in there and whether they engage that nation as appropriate in terms of consultation for any activity that might be happening within an area that has claimed rights….

As a province, we have 203 nations around the province. We are focused on doing the work that we need to do within here. We recognize that there are some claims that come in from nations that are based outside our province, in other territories or other provinces. We engage where we can with them. At some point, I’m sure we will be having a conversation with them around what their rights are, but we’re primarily focused on the 203 nations that are within the boundaries of British Columbia.

S. Fraser: I think that’ll be pale comfort for the Acho Dene Koe, who have rights and, arguably, title in parts of British Columbia. The boundaries, as I mentioned yesterday — the provincial boundaries and territorial boundaries — are, historically, a relatively recent event in the history of the Acho Dene Koe. Really, this position puts British Columbia the odd person out. The Acho Dene Koe are completing their final agreement with the Northwest Territories, and B.C. has avoided the Acho Dene Koe on the premise of viewing its AIP.

Why is B.C. avoiding a legitimate claim that is supported…? Their claim in B.C. is supported by the Yukon — the minister mentioned he was visiting the Premier of the Yukon, so he knows this — the Northwest Territories and the government of Canada. The Premiers of the Yukon and the Northwest Territories are specifically asking B.C. to do what they see as their legal duty to share in resolving the Acho Dene Koe claim.

[1125]

All parties, except B.C., acknowledge Acho Dene Koe’s aboriginal rights and title. So B.C. is acting in bad faith here. If the same argument were to be used by the territorial governments, there would be no negotiation with the Acho Dene Koe.

Again, another example of a post-Tsilhqot’in decision where nothing has changed. There are rights and titles associated in northern British Columbia with the Acho Dene Koe. I’ve travelled there. I’ve met with Chief Deneron. I’ve met the people. I’ve travelled through the territory that they claim. Their state of claim is a very
[ Page 11318 ]
strong one. It was accepted by the B.C. treaty process 13 years ago.

B.C.’s avoidance of this matter is clearly, I guess, an economic matter. If that’s the issue, why would B.C. not want to share in the wealth that they’re deriving from the Acho Dene’s territory? How can the minister justify that?

Hon. J. Rustad: You know, I find it interesting, and I question, I guess, where the member opposite goes with this in terms of his party’s perspective. What I mean by that is this particular nation is a signator to treaty 11. Treaty 11 does not extend into British Columbia. They’re a signator to treaty and part of treaty 11 rights.

Having said that, we do know that they have a claim into British Columbia. We recognize that there may very well be rights, which is why we engage when there are activities in that area around that. But I do need to repeat, as I said yesterday, the province view remains that the nation’s transboundary claim does not engage the comprehensive land process contemplated by the B.C. Treaty Commission process for British Columbia–based First Nations.

S. Fraser: Can the minister confirm that the Acho Dene’s claim was accepted by the B.C. Treaty Commission 13 years ago?

Hon. J. Rustad: Of course, we are aware that they have filed, and that is something that is put forward within the B.C. Treaty Commission.

However, as I have said, and I’ll repeat this again, the province view remains that the nation claim does not engage the comprehensive claim process contemplated by the B.C. Treaty Commission process for British Columbia–based First Nations. But to that I will also add that the B.C. Treaty Commission does actually not do any verification process of a statement of intent or a statement of claim that comes forward from any of the nations, whether in British Columbia or outside, as they enter into whatever claim that they have put forward.

S. Fraser: Further to that, then, to the minister: what has changed from the acceptance of the claim 13 years ago by the B.C. Treaty Commission from the Acho Dene Koe? The minister claims the stated position of his government in dealing with the transboundary claims, but that isn’t consistent with what the government’s position was 13 years ago. Could the minister please highlight what changes led to the denial of this claim?

[1130]

Hon. J. Rustad: I just need to be very clear with the member opposite that the B.C. Treaty Commission is an independent body. It is not the British Columbia government; it is the British Columbia Treaty Commission.

The B.C. Treaty Commission accepts claims that come in and does not go through a verification process of the statements of intent that come in through any particular claim that may come in. Thirteen years ago it was exactly the same as today in terms of how a claim comes in and how it’s processed.

The provincial view remains that the nation’s transboundary claim does not engage the comprehensive claim process contemplated by the B.C. treaty process for British Columbia–based First Nations.

S. Fraser: For clarification, then, the B.C. Treaty Commission, the independent body that they are, accepted the claim 13 years ago from the Acho Dene Koe. Then there were subsequent instructions from this government to deny the claim and to not proceed. Is that correct?

Hon. J. Rustad: Once again, the province’s view remains as has been stated before.

As any nation would put forward, such a claim may include recognition of some very site-specific land sites and fee simple to support wildlife harvesting or cultural activities but would exclude treaty land holdings and the exercise of governance within British Columbia.

S. Fraser: I guess I’m not going to be able to get much further on this, but I would urge the minister to…. I’m not sure if he or any of his staff here today have visited with the Acho Dene Koe in their territory in northern British Columbia. I have met with most compelling evidence, besides the written state of claims that was submitted to the B.C. Treaty Commission 13 years ago and accepted at that time.

[1135]

The most compelling part of this was meeting with elders. I met with the community. The elders showed me on a map — these were very elderly people — where they spent their time as children and their great grandparents’ hunt camps in northern British Columbia that predate boundaries being put in.

Then I had a chance and took the opportunity to travel to these remote areas. It was winter. It was cold. It was deep snow. These camps and these communities have been in northern British Columbia and used. The rights and title of the Acho Dene Koe are pretty much irrefutable.

I would suggest, if the minister and his staff were to visit and talk, especially to the elders and Chief Deneron, that they might come up with a different approach on this. I would urge that to happen. They are a patient people, and they’ve been waiting a long time.

Maybe I’ll leave a moment for comment, in case there is one from the minister. There was no question there.

Hon. J. Rustad: Just for some further clarity around this. Unfortunately, I haven’t had the opportunity to go
[ Page 11319 ]
up and visit their territory. I have many other territories and bands within British Columbia and had that opportunity and same sort of experience, talking with the elders and others.

I just need to be clear on this. The claims of the Acho Dene Koe to aboriginal rights in relation to lands were surrendered under the terms of treaty 11. The treaty rights of the nation are, as defined, within the geographic area under the treaty and do not extend within British Columbia.

I have to say, as a nation, that there is a rights questions that we’ll certainly work on with them. But B.C. is also very supportive of the nation reaching a final agreement with the Canadian government and, of course, the Northwest Territories, with the various territories, on the land claims arising from treaty 11. We certainly wish them the best of success.

S. Fraser: I’m not sure that they can complete. I’m certainly no expert. I’m not at the table there. But without the third party, B.C., at the table — fourth party, actually, if you include the government of Canada — this may not be able to be completed.

I suspect we’re going to see, as we canvassed earlier, the increase in litigation and court challenges to try to effect reconciliation, when government should be leading that role. I think the government of B.C. should be leading it first and foremost. That’s unfortunate. We’re probably going to see more taxpayers’ money, I would submit, wasted on another court challenge here. That will be for another day.

I’d like to move on. Moving into treaty, which we were touching on anyways…. Noting the time, I’ll skirt on the peripheries of treaties, first of all.

The Maa-nulth treaty is, in part, within my constituency, and it’s near and dear. It’s been an exciting progression for the Nuu-chah-nulth Nations that were involved in that process and have achieved treaty. It’s a wonderful piece for the whole community. We’ve also now seen, if you will, nation-states representation on the Alberni-Clayoquot regional district, so we’re seeing a really nice mesh of governance here, in cooperation and trying to find economies of scale. That’s excellent.

An issue, though, has come to my attention. It’s around land that was removed from the tree farm licence — in this case, it was TFL 44 — as part of the Maa-nulth treaty. A large portion of that, about 105 cubic metres per year of cut, was allocated as part of the treaty. It was removed from TFL 44, which is held by Western Forest Products. It became part of the treaty settlement — and rightly so, as it should be. What shouldn’t be, though, is that that represented a quarter of the annual allowable cut for workers in the region. There’s obviously a job impact there on the neighbouring community of Port Alberni and the workers within that community.

[1140]

This is an issue that I have discussed with the Huu-ay-aht First Nation, with the regional district, with the mayor of Port Alberni, with the Steelworkers of Port Alberni and the workers that are facing the negative outcome of losing that amount of cut. Employment is what we’re talking about here.

Your government has a formula for dealing with that. It happened when the 20 percent clawback happened on forestry land back in — I’m going to take a guess — 2002 or ’03, maybe 2004. That created B.C. Timber Sales. Sorry, I’m giving this little history lesson here.

At any rate, there was no compensation anticipated or offered to the workers that were affected in the neighbouring communities. Even though the government has a formula…. Basically, 2,000 cubic metres is one job, and compensation has been provided using that formula, as I’ve mentioned before, in the past by your government. This is a formula that you have achieved, and it has precedent.

The question is, a long way around it: has your ministry been working on this issue? Where it’s germane here for MARR, the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation, is that everyone should be celebrating treaty, including the workers, including the non-indigenous communities that are neighbours. We want everyone to be a part of the celebration of this. It should be a win-win, not a win-lose.

If a treaty is being settled…. Even the perception of it being settled on the backs of, say, workers in adjoining communities I don’t believe is in the interest of any of us and may well stifle a treaty process that’s already problematic.

Is the ministry working on that? Have you worked on this issue? I haven’t raised it directly with the minister before, but I have raised it with Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations. Is the ministry working with Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations on this issue so that it won’t be a precedent that scares off other communities from supporting treaty?

Hon. J. Rustad: I don’t know if we have time for one more question, but I will certainly give the answer — just let me know if we do — before the break.

To the member opposite, obviously, treaty is something that we believe in and that we want to see successful. We work with nations that are in treaty because it’s not a separation; it is a union. A treaty defines how we will work together. Certainly, for nations that want to enter treaty, we are working with them, trying to find ways to be able to move forward with their agreements.

[1145]

I think the key with this is that, as you know, treaty involves a land base. There are lots of activities that are happening on land bases right across the province. As we go into negotiations, whether at various stages of the treaty process or the final process, we try to do our best to identify where there are any potential conflicts that may
[ Page 11320 ]
arise between existing tenures or existing operations on the land base and the interests of nations in terms of entering into treaty.

We actually engage and try to resolve all of those prior to entering into final agreement, because we don’t want to be in a situation where we have an agreement that goes forward that creates a challenge — for aboriginal or non-aboriginal alike. At the end of the day, this is about how we come together and work together and strengthen British Columbia and Canada as a union, if you want to call it that. That’s what the results of the treaty process are.

As we go forward and are engaging with forest companies — or whether it’s rangers or guide-outfitters or trappers or others…. As we go through this process, we do try our best to resolve all of those things that may come up in advance.

In this particular case…. I know this was raised during the estimates of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations just a few days ago, and of course, they are the lead on this issue. We do work with them, as we work with all ministries around government when it comes to the relationship component with nations, but the questions specifically around that particular issue and how it gets resolved — and we’re hopeful that it will be able to be resolved — are better put to the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations.

With that, noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The committee rose at 11:47 a.m.

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