Official Report of

DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

(Hansard)

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 1992

Volume 6, No. 6

[ Page 3893 ]

The House met at 10:08 a.m.

Prayers.

J. Dalton: In the precincts this morning are approximately 70 students from West Vancouver Secondary, which, I'm proud to say, is my alma mater, and I'm wearing the school tie this morning in honour of that. The students are accompanied by Miss Elizabeth Dye. Miss Dye is the daughter of Ken Dye, who, as all members know, is the president of the Workers' Compensation Board. Will the House make them all welcome.

The Speaker: There being no other introductions, I would like to draw members' attention, if they have not already noticed, to the fact that Orders of the Day is in a different format this morning. You will notice that the various items on notice are now attached as a schedule at the back. We've embarked on this changed format for ease of electronic retrieval and for the convenience of the members. I just wanted to point that out to the members. Private Members' Statements

PARKSVILLE FLATS

L. Krog: I have great pleasure this morning discussing a topic that is near and dear to my heart, and that is the Parksville Flats. For those of my colleagues who are not aware of what the Parksville Flats are, it is the estuary of the Englishman River, located within the city of Parksville, in the centre of my constituency.

For many decades it has been the subject of a great deal of controversy and proposed development plans by various private owners. Indeed, at one time it was proposed to turn it into a little Venice, and appropriate canals were dug, which still remain to this day. It is one of the most critical wildlife habitat areas on Vancouver Island. I am happy to confirm to this House that the majority of that piece of property was purchased in conjunction with the Nature Trust and the Province of British Columbia, and it will be transferred in December. Since 1890, 70 percent of wildlife habitat in the southwestern corner of British Columbia has disappeared to a variety of uses, be they industrial, residential or otherwise.

Estuaries are absolutely critical. Why are they critical? Because there is a complex ecosystem that exists in every estuary. The mixture of the tidal floodings creates an environment for a variety of fish and waterfowl. Those coastal wetlands represent literally only 3 percent of our B.C. coastline. The Parksville Flats have been the subject of various studies over the years by the provincial government. They have been the object of desire of the Nature Trust for a number of years as well.

The community has attempted at various times to raise sufficient moneys to purchase the flats, but has been unable to do so. Indeed, the provincial government made a tremendous effort earlier this year to purchase the entire property, but because of fiscal restraints was unable to do so. Nevertheless, through the concerted effort and hard work of a number of people, the Nature Trust and various community groups, finally, with a contribution by the province of nearly $1.638 million and another $1.125 million from the Nature Trust, a deal was struck with the developer which will see a vast portion of that estuary preserved. Some 64 hectares in total will be added to a 40- hectare parcel belonging to British Columbia, and a further 11.75 hectares on the east side is already within the Nature Trust's ownership. Together they will provide nearly 116 hectares of preserved land forever.

The mouth of that river is important, as is every estuary critical for the migration of waterfowl. Many may ask: "Why? There are other areas they can land." But in cold winters, salt water will not freeze. Fresh water does. It is only on estuaries that birds can land and literally refuel by feeding, resting and fattening up before heading south, when all other areas are covered by snow or ice and are not available for feeding.

It is also at the mouth of every river that a great transition takes place that's crucial to fishing in this province. Every single salmon born upstream must spend some time there acclimatizing itself to salt water. Estuaries are absolutely critical to our fishing industry and to our communities.

The Parksville Flats, in particular, have over 112 species of birds recorded. It is noted to be one of the top ten steelhead and cutthroat rivers in the province. It has enormous significance to the community itself. It has always been known as a place where people could walk and observe nature. It provides a tremendous view corridor for the city of Parksville, for those of you who are familiar with it. Moreover, it is a tremendous tourist attraction. It is also quite literally the site of Parksville's first actual habitation. It was settled by a farmer back in the 1880s, giving Parksville a long history within this province.

[10:15]

What that estuary and the Parksville Flats mean to Parksville is much like what Stanley Park means to the city of Vancouver. What every major community has is some central focus, some source of pride, and in the city of Parksville it is indeed the Parksville Flats. In those flats will be preserved forever, through a wildlife management plan, the Nature Trust and the provincial government, the commitment of the people of Parksville and of British Columbia to preserve some portion of our province in an area that is facing absolutely critical and damaging growth. It is with no small amount of pride that I can say I played a role in the preservation of the Parksville Flats. But what it says about the community of Parksville is that through hard work, concerted effort, constant lobbying and a love of and a desire to preserve what is good in our communities, good things over time will happen.

It is a message to the people of British Columbia that we must move now. While the price to preserve these areas may seem high, in fact the price is not high and will only increase over time. I have looked with some interest at legislation in the state of California that preserves coastal habitat. It is my hope that the people of British Columbia will start to look in that direction as 

[ Page 3894 ]

well. If we are to preserve this kind of habitat -- river estuaries, which ecologists now understand are so critical -- then we must make those moves now, with the pressure of ongoing growth being as high as it is.

The Parksville Flats will be a lasting testament to the commitment of people in British Columbia to the environment.

H. De Jong: It's indeed a pleasure to respond to this presentation by the member who is proud not only of his community for preserving this piece of land, but also of his important role in preserving it. A habitat area so close to a growing community is of great importance not only for today, but for future years and future generations, because it's important that young people in the community appreciate what has taken place and why these things are being preserved. The fish habitat -- coastal habitat, as the member calls it -- certainly has its problems in surviving, and I believe that this is a very important step forward by the provincial government and all the other participants in this venture.

It is true that for many years the provincial government has worked with various communities. I'm thinking specifically of the Greater Vancouver Regional District and its park acquisition for a growing community such as the Fraser Valley. Undoubtedly similar things happen here on the Island. Communities are growing, and it's important to maintain and protect parks, recreation areas and things unique to each community.

While Parksville may have this as a unique situation and opportunity not only for their own people but also for visitors to the area, many other communities in the province have unique opportunities. A provincial government can certainly take advantage of assisting those communities. I'm thinking of some of the things that happen throughout British Columbia. I'm turning to the agricultural area, which is also important for all British Columbians and for people abroad. We've heard a lot about it on the television over the last 24 hours. For instance, Penticton has the Peach Festival, and the Abbotsford area has Berry Days to recognize the great variety of berries grown in that community. There appears to be very little consideration by the provincial government. Since the Minister of Government Services has not come out with a program to assist some of these festivities that are important to those communities, I would hope that in order to enhance and to continue the pride in our own communities -- in what they produce and in what they stand for -- a government minister would certainly consider making some grants available, even though it's only seed money, to continue those important activities within each community.

It's one thing to preserve something, but it's another thing to continue to recognize and celebrate it each year. As with Berry Days in Abbotsford, people are struggling each year to continue those things. I don't think there is anything better than that we have pride in our community and give specific recognition to the youth of our community in carrying on from the foundation on which those communities were built -- the strength of the community -- not only for people but also because it is the economic lifeblood of such communities.

I certainly believe that the steps taken by the provincial government in acquiring this land in Parksville are very important, and I don't think any British Columbian would disagree with that.

L. Krog: I am flattered to hear the words of the member for Abbotsford. I think his chosen occupation prior to his elevation to this House indicates his love, concern and care for the land and the environment in British Columbia. He has wisely pointed out today the importance of agricultural activities within communities and the need to preserve them as well, and to honour those in our communities who participate in that process and provide the much-needed green space that is becoming increasingly valuable in every part of the province and, in particular, the southwestern sector.

The Parksville Flats will remain for generations as a testament to our commitment, and it is my sincere hope that every other community in the province, conscious of their need to preserve that which is important and which, indeed, often forms the heart of their communities, will likewise be encouraged by this purchase to work in conjunction and in cooperation with government, the Nature Trust and community organizations to see that the Parksville Flats will simply be the beginning or one more in the long process of keeping our communities healthy in British Columbia.

The preservation of wildlife habitat, parks and agricultural activity within our communities will be absolutely crucial. On that note, I wish the people of Parksville well in their endeavours, and in their future endeavours to make their community both a healthy and a successful one.

PEACE RIVER DROUGHT CRISIS

R. Neufeld: It gives me pleasure to rise and speak to an issue that is large and looming in my constituency, and could have an effect on the agricultural industry in the province as a whole. The agricultural industry really got off the ground in the Peace River area in the 1930s. During the ensuing 40 years, over one million acres of land were cleared and put into production. The agricultural industry in the Peace River area peaked early in the 1980s, but has since declined by approximately 10 to 15 percent.

The Peace River area in northeastern British Columbia is rich in resources. It is the breadbasket of British Columbia, and has some of the most dedicated and resourceful people found anywhere in our province. The area is little understood by the rest of the province, and in fact has much more in common with our neighbours to the east in Alberta and Saskatchewan than with southern British Columbia.

The northern part of B.C. is thought by many to consist of Prince George, Terrace, Smithers and Prince Rupert; but if one looks closely at a map, it becomes readily apparent that approximately half the land mass in the province lies north of Prince George. In fact, the Rocky Mountain range cuts off a large portion of northeastern British Columbia. This is home for me and my family, and for a large part of British Columbia's population.

[ Page 3895 ]

It is no secret that the agricultural industry is in serious trouble. Commodity prices on average are at their lowest level since the early fifties, while input costs for farming have risen dramatically. The agricultural sectors controlled by supply management boards are the only stable part of the industry. The agricultural industry in northeastern B.C. has experienced probably one of the most disastrous years ever. The area has been subjected to the worst drought since 1950. This situation has been further exacerbated by the early spring and early fall frosts.

The preceding three years of heavy loss have also added to the heavy burden on our agricultural community. The drought has left the area of northeastern B.C. with hardly any moisture in its soil. This poses a problem not only for the agricultural community but also for our forests and even for the water supplies for our northern communities. Some of the rivers that we depend upon for our water supplies were abnormally low through this past year. If we do not experience a heavy snowfall this winter and more rain this coming summer, the effects will be catastrophic for grain and forage production.

There are programs in place that provide a safety net funded by the federal and provincial governments. These programs are designed to alleviate the effects of price fluctuations, while the crop insurance programs help with other problems faced by the industry. But there is nothing in place to help farmers cope with natural disasters or to provide assistance for some types of forage crops. The agricultural community in the Peace River area has experienced a natural disaster in the form of a drought. In fact, this is the worst drought recorded in more than 40 years.

I believe that everyone in this provincial Legislature is aware of and remembers the floods that occurred in the south, and the aid that was provided by the government to help those individuals who were affected. The agricultural industry in the Peace River area is requesting that the same type of response and attention be given to their disaster. The farmers and ranchers are asking that the government be forthcoming with assistance for their industry in the north, the same as for those in the southern part of the province who endured the floods.

[10:30]

Most farmers came from the prairies: Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. This is another reason for the strong ties with provinces to the east, as opposed to communities in the south. So often it is said: "Out of sight, out of mind." This problem is one that northern people have faced all of their lives. Often people in the north feel that governments are elected totally by the southern part of the province and that their requests for assistance go unheard. This feeling may be likened to how British Columbians feel about central Canada and Ottawa not responding to our needs.

Communities in the north depend heavily upon the agricultural industry for their well-being. In fact, the agricultural industry in the Peace River area alone had gross revenues in 1991 in excess of $80 million. The agricultural community in the north is aware of the problems British Columbia is facing at this time; however, they feel that they have contributed their share to the B.C. economy for many years, and now they are requesting financial aid to help them through this extremely difficult time. They deserve this government's consideration, and they deserve to be heard.

E. Conroy: I rise to address the concerns of the hon. member for Peace River North. As one who's been involved in the production side of the agriculture industry, I fully realize the difficulties of product price and climatic uncertainty.

Firstly, I'd like to deal with the grain production situation in Peace River. I recognize that the Peace has had to face a reduction in quality, given the drought situation, coupled with about a 60 percent reduction in quantity. We do have revenue protection plans available to producers. In 1992, 345,000 acres in the Peace were seeded in oats, barley, wheat and canola. Some 40 percent of these producers were fully insured under the revenue protection plan and crop insurance -- programs that are supported by this government. Our Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food has been successful in maintaining the federal government's contribution to these programs. Further, 86 percent of grain farmers in the Peace who produced over $15,000 worth of grain in net-worth sales were covered under the revenue protection program, and of these, 63 percent were fully covered -- and I stress, fully covered -- under revenue protection and crop insurance.

I don't say this to try to suggest that there is not a problem in the Peace with regard to the drought situation. I fully recognize that. But I want to make the House aware that our government is doing something to try and alleviate the plight of farmers in the Peace.

Thus far the crop insurance program has guaranteed to pay out $13 million into the Peace, yet we hear a call for more money from government. I ask how, in good conscience, we as government can dip into our pocket and give more money to farmers -- even though I as a farmer understand the need -- and undercut the crop insurance programs? People will no longer buy into these programs if we as government are simply prepared to dip into our pocket and pay them out. The insurance programs are funded partly from federal, provincial and producer money. It's just like buying car insurance. If we're not prepared to pay for our car insurance but the government's prepared to pay for the damages to our car if we smash it up, what's the incentive to buy car insurance? It boils down to the same thing. We know how the other side feels about the big S-word, "subsidy." Yet I don't want to downplay the seriousness of the problem in the Peace.

At the urging of our government, the feds have agreed to a tax-free advance to farmers in the Peace of up to $50,000 for grain that's in storage. That's been initiated by the government of British Columbia.

On the forage side, there were 59,000 acres in seed crops, peas, rye and other minor crops. These are presently uninsurable. However, even though the yields were down -- and in some cases the yields were down by up to 50 percent -- the prices were up. So there's a saw-off in some ways there. Again, I don't want to minimize the amount of hardship.

[ Page 3896 ]

The yields of livestock feed crops in the Peace were down from 90 percent of normal to 15 percent of normal, which is quite drastic. The North Peace fared slightly better than the South Peace, by the way. Though feed prices were up.... Producers who are selling feed are seeing a substantial increase in income -- in many cases an increase from $40 to $75 per ton in price. It doesn't help the people who have to buy it, but it helps the people who sell it. There is forage crop insurance available to livestock producers. Where this was utilized, it would amount to about $100 per cow, which would be about one-third of the winter feed bill for a rancher in the Peace.

One of the downsides of the drought is the heavier culling of cow herds, which is not a good thing. It's not something our government wants to see.

The Speaker: I regret, hon. member, that your time has expired.

R. Neufeld: It's interesting to listen to the member for Rossland-Trail reply to my statement. I'd just like to correct a few things that he said, because it's obvious that he's not aware of some of the ramifications.

The aid to cattlemen through not having to pay taxes if they sell their herds for two years is federal aid, and that's there. But when cattlemen have to sell their herds, it takes years to build them back. The money they generate for all those years is gone out of the economy. So it's not fair to say: "Just sell off a bunch of your cattle, and the federal government will not tax you for it." That doesn't work; that doesn't keep the economy going.

Of course we don't like subsidies, but there have been times across the province of British Columbia -- and specifically in the south -- when flood relief has come from government. Obviously it came from our government, because we have a little more in our hearts for those people out there in the province of British Columbia than these people have.

I find it absolutely appalling that the member would stand up and say that we want a subsidy and more money in Peace River North for the farmers, when this government just finished giving one section of the public employees -- the BCGEU -- a 6 percent wage increase. Let me tell you that there are farmers in North Peace living on less than what we call the poverty line, but they're too darned proud to pack it in and say they've had it. It has been a way of life for them. It's their heritage; it's where they come from. That's why they're still on the farm, and we need those farms. Grain production right now is not keeping up to world demand. That's a fact; that's noted federally. If we continue down this road, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.

The drought committee in Peace River North and South has met many times over the summer and has tried to bring to the attention of this government that there is a problem in Peace River North. They have tried to get a meeting with the Minister of Agriculture, the Minister of Economic Development and the Premier. It takes two or three months to even get a letter back, and that's all they have received so far.

I will correct that, because I talked to the Minister of Agriculture, and he has finally agreed to have a meeting on November 10 with this drought committee. But he's the only one that I know of. These farmers will go out and work a little bit more in the winter to try to make a little bit of money so they can pay their airfare to come down here and see the minister. The minister should be going north to see them.

LITERACY

M. Farnworth: It's a pleasure to rise today and speak on a topic that I think many in this province take for granted. There are many different forms of education in this province that are discussed -- post-secondary education, mainstream education or K-12 -- but too often we forget those people who, for one reason or another, lack the skills to fully integrate themselves into what is increasingly becoming a rapidly changing technological society and global economy.

Some 30 percent of the people of this province have difficulty or are functionally illiterate. A full 5 percent of the people in this province cannot read at all. That's some 60,000 people in British Columbia who cannot read. That represents an enormous waste of talent and an enormous drain on government resources. Fully 12 percent of the people of this province, over and above that 5 percent, cannot read the instructions on their telephone bill or the directions on a medicine bottle. It presents an enormous challenge to government, and it also presents an enormous cost. The fact that one in three people in this province -- and, in fact, in this country -- are functionally illiterate costs the Canadian economy over $10 billion a year. In terms of accidents in the workplace, it costs them $1.6 billion. That's money that comes from the rest of the nation and the people of this province. That's what it's costing each of us.

There are all sorts of reasons why we're in a situation like this. There are many people who say that we have such a high level of immigration into the country that maybe the problem lies in the number of immigrants and the problems with English as a second language. The fact is that three-quarters of the people who are functionally illiterate in this province were born here. I think part of the problem in the past has been attitudinal, a societal problem. When you went through the education system ten or 20 years ago, and you had learning disabilities, they weren't diagnosed the way they are today. You were shunted off. Our mountains had enough trees on them and there were enough mineral reserves in the ground that if you couldn't quite make it through the educational system, the natural blessing of the resources of this province were there to provide employment. Many people took that avenue or were encouraged to take it.

What's happened is that over the last ten or 20 years those opportunities have disappeared. We've had technological shakedowns in industries such as the forest industry in this province, and they don't require the same number of people to perform unskilled jobs such as the greenchain -- it's no longer there. As those opportunities have disappeared, other opportunities have sprung up, but they have required increasing levels of sophistication in terms of not only reading and writing skills but educational skills. It is estimated that some 40 percent of jobs after the year 2000 will require 

[ Page 3897 ]

at least some post-secondary education. Today governments are addressing the need for students to stay in school, and are getting the message across. I think that by and large it's happening with considerable success.

Society recognizes that education is very much a lifelong process, that learning doesn't stop once you leave high school and that it's something you carry forward all your life. People are realizing that today -- particularly our young people. But there is an older segment of our population that has tremendous difficulty in adapting, because it requires not only a change in attitudes but often a very real and sometimes traumatic problem of having to confront the fact that you can't read or that your reading and writing skills are considerably below what they should be. There need to be opportunities for people to improve their skills and become part of a mainstream, functional, literate society.

[10:45]

[H. De Jong in the chair.]

It's probably one of the greatest challenges that a government faces and that society as a whole faces. Government can't solve the problem by itself, because I believe it has to be an attitudinal change. It's a problem that I believe more and more people need to be made aware of, and I know our government is committed to tackling it.

J. Dalton: I'm pleased to respond to the member for Port Coquitlam. No one will quarrel with the importance of literacy, and certainly the statements that the member has made are well taken and should be repeated throughout this province.

The member has commented that we take literacy for granted, and unfortunately it is true that 30 percent of British Columbians are in some measure or another not as literate as we would desire. The member commented on the cost to government of the level of illiteracy, and I would add that it's a general cost to society. There are costs in employment opportunities and social services, and many other costs that have an impact on us due to the unfortunate illiteracy rate.

The member commented on some of the reasons why we have this high illiteracy rate, and of course there are a variety of reasons. I don't wish to get into too much detail as to how we got ourselves into this situation. There are many factors. However, it is certainly important, and I do compliment the member for bringing this to our attention today, that we all have to think seriously about how the various factors that contribute to illiteracy levels can be addressed. Of course, we must be ever mindful -- and I think it's appropriate, given the current state of B.C. finances -- of how we can come up with ways to pay for effective literacy programs without significantly impacting on the budget.

So I'm going to make some comments about possible solutions -- and the member opposite also did remark on this -- as to how the literacy level may be improved in British Columbia. Obviously we must encourage people to remain in school. That goes without saying. I don't have time this morning to get into them, but certainly there can be many ways by which we can encourage students in our public or private school systems to remain within the system.

However, we have to provide in addition lifelong learning opportunities. Various avenues can be explored to encourage people not only to stay in school but, if they need to, to retrain or re-educate -- things such as continuing education courses and evening courses that can be provided at community colleges and our public schools. The public schools are not effectively used to a large extent. They are obviously heavily used between nine and three, but we all have to look seriously at the extended use that schools could be put to. The literacy problem that we're commenting on this morning is obviously one of those.

ESL programs are very important. The member did comment on the immigrants who come into this province. Not all of them will have the desired language skills. This government and the federal government must address the whole problem of ESL.

I would like to add that there's a very excellent association in this province -- Literacy B.C. -- which has a mandate to encourage and improve literacy skills. Many volunteers throughout the province work within that system. I would add that as a possible solution. It's one that will not have a significant cost impact. If we can get volunteers to go into the communities and sit down with the people who do need literacy improvement, we will certainly all benefit. This government may be pleased to hear that perhaps there's not a significant cost factor that would obviously make them feel somewhat uncomfortable.

M. Farnworth: In my first part I talked about some of the problems and some of the ways needed to address them. The hon. member for West Vancouver-Capilano has also shared his thoughts on the issue.

The province itself is actively tackling this issue in conjunction with the federal government. We're spending, for example, $1.4 million this year alone in some 41 communities, addressing the problem of literacy. It covers a wide range of activities from dealing with disabled people who require special language skills to basic reading and writing courses for the 5 percent of the population that cannot read. So that's a role government is playing, where there's quite a substantial commitment of provincial and federal dollars.

I also touched on another change that needs to take place. It's one that I believe is taking place, but more emphasis needs to be placed on it. From the earliest days in school, children have to be encouraged to stay in school but also to realize -- as the member stated and as I stated earlier -- that learning is a lifelong skill, that in our careers, whatever path we choose to take, we are probably in our lifetime going to have three or four different jobs, and that to have as many skills as possible is something that can benefit us all.

I note that in West Germany, for example, nearly half of university graduates also have a skill trade, so if they can't find work in their chosen field, they have a skill trade to fall back on.

There's a great deal that we can learn, and there's a great deal more that needs to take place. I believe that the province is making a strong financial commitment. 

[ Page 3898 ]

By encouraging parents, teachers and the educational system to get that message out -- which I believe they're doing, but it's something that we need to constantly reinforce -- we can really make a dent in terms of reducing illiteracy in the future. Right now we have the problem of the older worker in terms of illiteracy and being functionally illiterate. By the actions that we as a government and we as a society take today, we can make a real contribution towards ensuring that a government 20 or 30 years from now does not have that problem

[The Speaker in the chair.]

CULTURE

C. Tanner: In 1869 Matthew Arnold wrote: "I am a Liberal, yet I am a Liberal tempered by experience, reflection...and I am, above all, a believer in culture." Unfortunately, the hon. Minister Responsible for Culture is not a Liberal. But I do believe that she has experience, that she is reflective and, most importantly, that she too believes in culture. So although the order paper today, under Private Members' Statements, reads "Culture," I trust that neither the minister nor her government will be surprised that my remarks are directed not at her at all, but rather to her cabinet colleagues. It is important for them to understand that she needs their support.

I have been studying the Vancouver Arts Initiative, a review of arts and culture in that city, with a fine-tooth comb, and I'm sure the minister has as well. Their workbook, only the first part of their initiative, contains an ideas inventory of some 295 suggestions. To be sure, some ideas put forward by one member are repeated by another. But no matter how they are worded, they are all ideas on ways to improve conditions for artists, their works and their audiences.

Many of their suggestions will be implemented only by means of more money from the city of Vancouver or from this government. That's not possible this fiscal year apparently. From comments made recently by the Minister of Finance, I have sincere doubts that we'll have it next year either. For that reason I urge government ministers to consider very seriously the numerous non-monetary ways of helping that are outlined in the initiatives workbook. Treasury Board might not give the Minister Responsible for Culture leave to spend more money in lieu of that, but will other ministers commit to giving her support in the numerous non-monetary ways that they can? I'm calling on those ministers to enact a number of changes within their jurisdictions. Some amount to a little more than a bit of leniency, and some point to the distinct status -- not special status -- of artists in this province.

As a beginning, to the Minister of Education. In the past, staff in your ministry working on fine arts programs have not been encouraged to seek input from the cultural services branch. In hope that the minister does not let that situation continue, I remind her that culture does not exist in a vacuum, and neither does education. Developing an open-doors policy between your ministries would go a long way to ensure (a) that fine arts education is totally in tune with what is happening in the artistic community today, (b) that not only the Minister Responsible for Culture but also her staff are fully apprised of what educators are recommending, and (c) that resources in both ministries are pooled to the best advantage.

Surely the days must be gone when ministers are protective of their departments to the detriment of other ministries. I remind the Minister of Education of a quote from the arts initiative report concerning arts in schools: "If we truly believe that arts are important in our society and that they provide an important legacy to the future generations, then we must make them available to young people, who will be tomorrow's citizens."

To the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Your budget already provides moneys to city and regional libraries. By ensuring that a percentage of that total is allocated exclusively to the purchase of works by B.C. writers, you would enhance the writers-in-libraries program you have already devised with the minister responsible for culture. That might mean a local library would have to cut back on purchasing other works, but your interlibrary loan service will ensure that few patrons are really inconvenienced by it.

To the Minister of Women's Equality. Within the budget you have been given you will set aside a portion designated for affordable child care for needy artists.

To the Minister of Government Services. The initiative report suggests that Vancouver City Council inventory their property with an idea to allowing empty and underutilized space to be used for temporary exhibits -- office space or other storage space for cultural groups. Will you instruct the B.C. Buildings Corporation to do the same? You administer moneys for in-province travel to non-profit societies and school groups. Expand this to ensure that no working artists are turned away from receiving touring grants to cover legitimate travel expenses. If our goal is to ensure cultural awareness in this province, we have to allow our artists to be truly provincial citizens and not just citizens of a particular town or city. By the way, if B.C. ever does see those community grants that your staff has laboured over for the past nine months or more, will they allocate a percentage to community arts?

To the Minister of Advanced Education. In conjunction with the cultural services branch will you begin to develop certification and continuing education courses for arts administrators, as called for in the report?

[11:00]

Finally, to the Minister of the Environment. Your ministry provides grants to municipalities and non-profit societies attempting to manage their solid waste programs. Artists are calling for their own recycling centre or an arts clearing house for recycling costumes, props, sets and equipment that otherwise end up in dumpsters and landfills. If they were able to apply for funds from your ministry, would you take them seriously, realizing that this issue is not necessarily just a municipal concern? Given a helping hand administratively, arts groups from throughout the province could pool their resources.

[ Page 3899 ]

Madam Speaker, these aren't my ideas; they are ideas drawn from the artistic community of Vancouver. I've chosen them because they are fiscally responsible and because, in my view, they are do-able provincewide. But they are just a small sample of what's possible, given their terms of reference.

The hon. member for Vancouver-Point Grey surely knows this study and knows which parts of it are aimed directly at her ministry. That's her challenge. I challenge the rest of you to be creative. Artists, their work and their audiences are also waiting for you.

G. Brewin: It's a pleasure to rise in response to the remarks made by the member for Saanich North and the Islands. It is also a pleasure to once again, as in so many other areas, demonstrate how far ahead of these kinds of challenges both the government and particularly this ministry really are. I'm looking forward to describing some of these as this time goes on. I was tempted to have a little fun with a metaphor about studying things with a fine-tooth comb, but I think I'll leave that for another occasion.

I want to acknowledge the report to which the member refers, but not only that report. I want to acknowledge the dynamic work that has been undertaken by the artistic community not only in Vancouver but in all of the communities across this province. Many communities are working with their artistic communities to develop ways in which they can be enhanced and in which they can contribute more significantly to not only the spiritual and artistic communities, but also to the economic base that exists within those communities. I want to acknowledge the work that's going on in all the communities across this great province in that regard.

The Ministry Responsible for Culture is committed to this province's dynamic arts and cultural sector. It recognizes the important contribution that artists make to our society and understands the increasingly important contribution that they make to the province's economy. Over the coming years it is the ministry's intention to improve the economic and working conditions of artists through status-of-the-artist initiatives. The ministry also intends to stabilize the financial position of the cultural sector, improve access to federal programs for our artists and, working with them and others, develop policy that will encourage the development of the province's cultural industries.

The ministry recognizes that these initiatives cannot be done in isolation. Other ministries and communities have important roles to play if cultural activity in this province is to flourish further. Examples of this cooperation will continue to exist. Most recently the Royal British Columbia Museum and a number of ministries, including Education, Environment, Advanced Education and Forests, jointly supported the museum's very successful educational program "The Canadian Underwater Safari." The ministry has also begun this process more formally through the establishment of an interministerial committee on film and cultural industries, and we're looking forward to that. There will be further cooperation as we pursue the means to improve the economic working conditions of our artists.

The ministry understands that while money is always required to sustain the cultural sector, there can be significant improvements made that do not rely totally on financial resources. The Minister Responsible for Culture recognizes this and will continue to seek the cooperation of other ministries and communities to achieve the goal of financially and artistically building a healthy community for our future generations.

C. Tanner: I appreciate the remarks made by the member for Victoria-Beacon Hill and the commitment by the government that they will continue to have help and assistance for the Ministry Responsible for Culture from the other ministries, particularly the ones that I suggested that will cost little or nothing.

An initiative was heard in that report from one artist: "We want to see Vancouver as a city famous for its vital and original culture, as well as its stunning physical beauty." That's what the entire province should see as well. That initiative was heard from many artists wanting a place where art is not restricted to the interior of a few downtown buildings but exists literally everywhere, in schools, parks, community centres, office towers, on the sidewalks and in the streets. All that is possible provincewide, too.

I'm calling on the government ministers to think about the arts in every facet of their ministries. I'm calling on them to help in whatever ways they can to rid B.C. of these appalling statistics: the average annual income for a Canadian actor is $15,210; dancers, $13,000; visual artists, $11,444; and authors, $11,079. It's not good enough. It must improve.

The Speaker: I want to thank all hon. members who participated in private members' statements this morning.

Hon. G. Clark moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved on the following division:

The House adjourned at 11:14 a.m.

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