[ Page 6063 ]

CONTENTS

Motions on Notice

Motion 34. Hon. Mr. Couvelier –– 6063

Committee of Supply: Ministry of Government Management Services estimates.

(Hon. Mr. Michael)

On vote 31: minister's office –– 6063

Mr. Lovick

Hon. S.D. Smith

Committee of Supply: Ministry of Health estimates. (Hon. Mr. Dueck)

On vote 35: minister's office –– 6071

Hon. Mr. Dueck

The House met at 10:04 a.m.

Prayers.

Motions on Notice

On Motion 34.

[That this House authorize the Select Standing Committee on Finance, Crown Corporations and Government Services to examine, inquire into and make recommendations with respect to the regulation of the financial planning and advisory industry, and, without limiting the generality of the foregoing, to consider:

1. the desirability of a regulatory regime to regulate the financial planning and advisory industry;

2. the objectives which regulation of the industry should attempt to accomplish and the principles upon which regulation could be established;

3. the policy considerations inherent in regulating this industry; and

4. alternative approaches which would be used to design a regulatory regime;

and to report to the House as soon as possible, or following any adjournment, or at the next following session, as the case may be; to deposit the original of its reports with the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly during a period of adjournment and upon the resumption of the sittings of the House, the Chairman shall present all reports to the Legislative Assembly.

In addition to the powers previously conferred upon the said committee by the House, the committee shall have the following additional powers, namely:

(a) to appoint of their number one or more subcommittees and to refer to such subcommittees any of the matters referred to the committee;

(b) to sit during any period in which the House is adjourned, during the recess after prorogation until the next following session, and during any sitting of the House;

(c) to adjourn from place to place as may be convenient; and

(d) to retain personnel as required to assist the committee.]

HON. MR. COUVELIER: I move Motion 34 standing in my name on the order paper.

Motion approved.

Orders of the Day

HON. MR. RICHMOND: Committee of Supply, Mr. Speaker.

The House in Committee of Supply; Mr. Pelton in the chair.

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF
GOVERNMENT MANAGEMENT SERVICES

On vote 31: minister's office, $259,265 (continued).

MR. LOVICK: I want to start today with a very specific first question. I'll ask the House to bear with me for just a moment. I was trying to figure out what resolution 34 was and therefore was quickly scrambling, and thus my notes are not entirely arranged.

My first question....

MR. ROSE: Would you like an intervening speaker?

MR. LOVICK: No, I don't require one.

I want to pose a question or two, if I might, to the minister regarding severance arrangements established between what used to be B.C. Steamship Corporation — B.C. Stena Line Ltd. now — and the employees, those who specifically worked on the Princess Marguerite.

Some time ago, Mr. Speaker, I contacted the privatization office — the working group — and asked specifically what provisions were made for former B.C. Steamship Company employees who did not wish to go to B.C. Stena. I had an inquiry from an employee who wanted to know essentially what his options were. However, to put the matter charitably, the response I received from the office was not very informative and didn't really answer my question.

I'm wondering if I might simply start by asking the minister what the arrangements are covering employees who do not wish to go to B.C. Stena? What happens to those individuals?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: I would give the member one of two choices, and probably the one I would prefer on matters such as this I say this not only to that member but to any member opposite or, indeed, any member in the assembly. If you have a problem along those lines and you want to discuss it, please feel free to contact my secretary at any time — the phone number is 7-1023 — and we can sit down, without taking up the time of the House, and do a thorough analysis. If it has to be handled at that level, I could have time to get the background material and we could discuss what the employees' entitlements are. That's one option.

The second option is to take the question as notice and have my staff research it and bring you back a response, if indeed we can have that prepared quickly enough to respond in the assembly. Failing that we can certainly respond to you directly. But feel free at any time to get hold of me and we can discuss those kinds of matters to the satisfaction of the employees. We want to be fair with all the employees, whether they're direct employees of the government or employees of Crown corporations, past or present.

MR. LOVICK: I really and truly appreciate those assurances, and they sound wonderful on the surface. However, the predicament is that I have gone through precisely that process. I have dealt directly with your office, with the people charged with this responsibility, and what I have discovered ostensibly is that there is no provision made. In other words, we, the government, have undertaken this rather significant privatization initiative, we have claimed to have everything under control and in order, and yet when I pose a question about what the severance arrangements

[ Page 6064 ]

are and what options are available to the employee, I receive an answer that says this — and I'd like to read it into the record, Mr. Minister, because it makes the point, I think. "Further to your request for information concerning severance provisions for former B.C. Steamships employees who do not wish to go to B.C. Stena, my understanding is that severance is not an issue at this time." Well, that's an interesting beginning.

The next paragraph: "To date, there has been one letter of resignation received which was accepted by Stena. job offers have been extended to all employees, as agreed to during negotiations between the two companies." Fine; no quarrel. The third paragraph: "I would suggest, however, that any employees with specific inquiries concerning severance options should come forward." Fine; precisely what you're telling me.

The point, though, is: do you not have a stated policy on the books? In other words, you've undertaken this privatization — this joint venture privatization, as it happens in this case — and we ask for information about the rules governing that operation, the provisions that have been put in place, and we get back an answer: "Well, you'll have to come and deal with us individually, because apparently we don't have a policy."

I am wondering if the minister can address that. Am I correct? I think I am.

HON. MR. MICHAEL: Perhaps if the member would give the person's name as a starter, or names if he has more than one.... If I knew who he was talking about, we could start with that and try to examine the problem. We're working in a bit of a vacuum here. I'm not sure what the announcement was. I wasn't the minister in charge of privatization at the time that transaction took place.

Certainly there have been thousands and thousands of people affected, and the problem areas are minimal. We've had extremely few complaints from any of the employees. I know during one phase — the major phase of privatization — there were enormous public relations carried on with the employees. A wide variety and number of mailers went out advising them of their rights and what they could and couldn't do. There were communications; there were schools set up. Staff members travelled and had discussions.

The B.C. Steamships transaction: I'm not aware of the background. I'm not sure of the things that took place in that very early initiative, of what was communicated to the employees, but perhaps as a starter we could have the person's name, his mailing address, his telephone number — information like that.

I'm very curious on this particular case. Has the person in question talked to the union? Has a grievance been lodged? Is there anything in the works at all to attempt to resolve the dispute? Normally there are processes, and I'm sure in the collective agreement a process would be required by law. If there's an agreement, it has to be put in writing and taken up with the shop steward, and there are meetings between supervisors and the union representative. Has that transpired, or has the employee in question just gone to you as his MLA? I'm not quite sure, if he's a Victoria person, why he isn't going to the Victoria MLAs.

Give us some information. Send something we can get our teeth into to analyze this alleged injustice.

[10:15]

MR. LOVICK: I'm not even alleging an injustice; I'm alleging, rather, a vacuum. It seems that despite the fanfare and the flag waving and everything else in the name of privatization.... Interestingly enough, this particular flagship — if you'll pardon the pun when we're talking about ships — of the privatization fleet, the one mentioned specifically in the throne speech as the great success story of the venture, apparently did not have a clear process put in place in advance.

You can ask me all you want, Mr. Minister, to give you details, and I am more than willing to provide those to you. What I'm concerned about, though, is whether there is a process in place or whether there is not. To judge from your comments, I gather that this initiative was rather hastily cobbled together — or so it seems — to the point that there is no process to accommodate this kind of situation. That's the challenge; that's the argument I'm presenting. I'm basing that conclusion on the correspondence I've received, and I'm hearing nothing from you to give me a contrary point of view.

To be sure, we want to solve this individual's problem. The union may want to be making representation. As a matter of fact, I made a phone call too, and I said if you want to do something, give me some information. I haven't had a response back from those people yet; I may get one.

It seems to me that the essential question still obtains and still remains, whether this initiative was undertaken despite the fact that you had obviously not accommodated precisely this situation. It seems a rather significant admission of failure on your part that you can't answer this question directly and clearly by saying yes, this is the process that governs employees who find themselves in this circumstance, for the individual who says: "I do not wish to go with the new employer; I just don't want to do it. What are my options?" When I ask for an explanation of the options, all I get is this mush that doesn't answer the question. The same mushy answer, with all due deference, is what I'm getting from the minister across the chamber today. Would you care to respond, Mr. Minister, before I go on to something else?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: I expect that what will happen now — the member can correct me if I'm wrong — is that the member will send me the name of the aggrieved, and we will do an instant check to see what his status with the corporation was at the time. I assure you that I will have a thorough study done of it and will personally review the file.

[ Page 6065 ]

MR. LOVICK: Let's leave that for the moment and move on to something else. I want to turn now to some other general questions regarding the operation of Government Management Services, specifically about the Purchasing Commission.

You made reference in your opening remarks, Mr. Minister, to the B.C. supplier development program. I am concerned about what I would suggest are confusing and perhaps contradictory economic signals coming out of the minister's statements, specifically with regard to the agreement proposed between the four western provinces to effectively remove any barriers to the free and full intercourse of goods and services and all that. The question is what impact that kind of mini-free-trade zone will have on the old kinds of policies that we talked with some pleasure about, such as "Buy B.C."

I remember, for instance, that it wasn't too many years ago that the Association of Vancouver Island Municipalities put together a document advocating an economic strategy for Vancouver Island and that coast region. They began that report by talking about the work of the economist Jane Jacobs. What Jane Jacobs was held to be arguing at that time — and I think it's a fair rendition of her thesis — was that the only way to guarantee any long-term economic stability in a regional economy is to deal with the problem of.... I'm not sure of the right terminology. It is usually rendered as import replacement - to make sure you provide as many goods and services within your own region as you can.

That theory was all the rage no later than three years ago. Now, however, in the wake of free trade, it seems we're giving up on Jacobs's thesis. Instead of a "buy B.C. first" policy, instead of doing things to encourage B.C. suppliers, what we're effectively talking about doing is removing any kind of preferential arrangements.

I'm wondering if the minister might explain to me what has happened to suddenly make him and his colleagues converts to a good old-fashioned free trade hypothesis that seems to fly in the face of much of the standard economic argument for at least the last 20 years. Why have they suddenly become latter-day converts to Adam Smith again?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: I'm certainly pleased with the member's interest in this area of the supplier development program of the B.C. Purchasing Commission. It is a program that has had incredible success, and a program that has resulted in hundreds of jobs in the province — a lot of processing and manufacturing that would not have taken place otherwise. I am extremely pleased that the member has taken an interest in that.

The "Buy B.C." program is still alive and well. There is nothing in the western Canadian agreement that in any way suggests that provinces should not have complete liberty to encourage their residents to buy products manufactured or processed in their own provinces. That's still alive and well, and I'm sure it will always be thus.

However, we did find that within the commission, although we had a policy of stating that a percentage edge — I believe the figure was 5 percent — would be given to suppliers and manufacturers in the province, a 5 percent advantage over outside people who wished to tender, to my knowledge it was never used. Certainly it has not been used in the last two or three years, and perhaps never.

We find that the developers and suppliers in British Columbia are very competitive. But we did find in our meetings that indeed this preferential approach was being practised in some jurisdictions. We also found that the supplier development program works so well in British Columbia that we could probably complement the program even further by working with our counterparts in western Canada. What we will have shortly — if it's not running already, it will be within a month — is on-line information from the four provincial purchasing commissions: instant information on what is being put out to tender, for anybody who wishes to plug in to the computers. This is extremely good, because now we can go the extra step, not only in identifying volumes, commodities and dollars that are being spent on items outside of the province but in identifying volumes, goods and services for the entire bloc of the four western provinces.

We intend to work very closely with Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta. We don't think anyone will be a loser; we think we will all be winners. We are extremely confident in British Columbia that we will be winners as a result of this program, and we are optimistic that by working together as we did in B.C. in identifying volumes and commodities.... If we can compound that with the population in the other three provinces and identify goods and services that are coming from east of the Manitoba-Ontario border, across the line or internationally, we can roll up our sleeves and perhaps look forward to the day when we will be able to duplicate Market Discovery '88, which was held in the trade and convention centre in October 1988. We will be able to duplicate that trade show and have one on a western Canadian scale. As a matter of fact, the Deputy Premier of Saskatchewan, at a recent meeting I had with him, volunteered to sponsor, head up and put together such a show in Saskatchewan during 1990. We expect that we will have the date pinned down very soon. It will probably be held in either Regina or Saskatoon.

We're really looking forward to that, because Market Discovery was so successful. We've got 57 clearly defined, positive reports of people being able to put things together as a result. It amounted, I might add, to millions of dollars in economic spinoff in this province. Just imagine what we can look forward to by duplicating that type of show all across western Canada. It's to be held in Saskatchewan, and all of the purchasing commissions and suppliers can get together under one roof and identify those large volume items that are not manufactured or processed in any of the four provinces. Just think of the tremendous opportunities this is going to present to the private sector. In our province alone, last year Market

[ Page 6066 ]

Discovery '88.... It was not a public forum where everyone could walk in the door; it was just for buyers and sellers. We attracted over 6,000 people to that show. Just imagine — if you duplicated that effort and put on a show in Saskatchewan, I would expect the attendance would be far in excess of 10,000. We can envisage tremendous economic results for the four provinces.

Indeed, we look forward to working with the other three provinces, because they need some assistance, particularly Manitoba. You, Mr. Member, are certainly aware of the desperate straits that that province is in. Anything we can do in British Columbia to pick them up by the bootstraps and give them a little assistance, because the debt of that province is so terrible and so burdensome.... I just don't know how they're going to make it over the next year or two, the way they were left with that terrible legacy of debt.

We're going to work with Manitoba; we're going to help them along, and I think that you will see a lot of benefits in Manitoba. Perhaps that economy can once more get back to the good old days before those devastating years they encountered with that government which ended up in third place in the last provincial election.

MR. LOVICK: Just when I begin to think that the minister may surprise us all and make history by rising to the occasion, he falls back into the lower echelons where he usually resides.

I'm not trying to talk about cheap shots politically, for God's sake. I am trying to find out some specific answers. Let me pose the question directly and succinctly: is the British Columbia government's economic policy now one that rejects the old import substitution program?

[10:30]

HON. MR. MICHAEL: I feel that I answered that question. There's no reason that we cannot continue with the "Buy B.C." program. Any citizen any group is completely free and at liberty to buy whatever they want. The only thing that we have done up to now is through the B.C. Purchasing Commission, and only the B.C. Purchasing Commission of government. At this time it does not include the Crown corporations; it may, and hopefully will, in the future. But at this time, it's only the B.C. Purchasing Commission working with the other purchasing commissions.

As I have said, we never used the 5 percent preferential rule, and that rule has now been erased from the policy of the commission and the government. As of April 1 we have, literally, opened free tendering among all the four western provinces' purchasing commissions.

MR. LOVICK: I think we're getting closer.

The old preferential 5 percent rule is gone. Fine. Is it the case, however, that also embedded in that western agreement is an end to any kind of preferential treatment or preferential policy? I am asking the minister to tell us a little bit about this agreement that he wants to brag about. Tell us. What does it do? Does it put an end to any kind of preferential treatment?

Aha, tough one. Now I'm suspicious.

HON. MR. MICHAEL: Yes, Mr. Member. I've just asked my staff to get a copy of the letter of understanding that was signed by the four provincial ministers, and we will see that you are given a copy of it posthaste. Perhaps it will assist you in your questioning.

MR. LOVICK: I take it, from that answer, that the minister says he doesn't know. In other words, he can't give me a nice, short, concise answer saying precisely what we have agreed to, in terms of preferential treatment afforded to B.C. producers and suppliers.

HON. MR. MICHAEL: Clearly the main object of the exercise would be that the four western purchasing commissions would not set any figures, whether they be 1 percent, 5 percent, 10 percent or whatever they might have been using in the past. We will have open and free tendering by all who wish to tender and play the game on items put out for tendering by either or all of the purchasing commissions.

MR. LOVICK: I take it, then, that what the agreement says is something very like, "there is a free trade area consisting of B.C., Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba," and that none of those governments is empowered.... And the north? Beyond? I see the minister holding up his hand, either in a concession of, "I give up," or saying there are five rather than four. I take it that the agreement effectively says that there will be a free trade area established in that zone and that no government within that area can do anything that will be construed by the others to be an interference with the free market and the free exchange of goods and services. Is that the case?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: At this time, when you use the word "governments" the answer is yes, if you understand that when I say yes I am talking about the purchasing commission in each of the four western provinces. We are not talking about Crown corporations at this time. We are not talking about hospitals, schools, municipalities, regional districts, water improvement boards, etc.

MR. LOVICK: So the minister is saying that we only partly believe in free trade, and we only partly believe in this absolute opening up of the barriers across the region. In other words, for the other major players like Crown corporations and local school boards, we still want the option to be able to give some preferential treatment to our own. In other words, we're sort of halfway believers rather than all the way. Is that the case?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: The member says we are only part-believers. Perhaps he has to understand that the respective four ministers, who negotiated this agreement and signed it, are not responsible for or have the power to dictate to Crown corporations,

[ Page 6067 ]

municipalities, schools, hospitals, regional districts and water improvement areas.

We took the first step — a big, monumental, maybe even historic step — by starting off with the four purchasing commissions. I'm sure that the member is aware that we are not talking about just millions of dollars here; we're not talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. We are talking about commissions that have control of billions of dollars in western Canada.

Indeed, by these four commissions working together with the on-line system, we are convinced we will be able to prove to all the citizens in western Canada how right and how good it is, and the tremendous economic spinoffs that will result from this initiative. We predict it's going to be enormous; we are confident it's going to enormous. We are confident that the market discovery showpiece, to be held in Saskatchewan in 1990, will be extremely successful. We'll see all kinds of jobs created and all kinds of additional economic activity. That's the first step.

It's not to say that Crown corporations won't get together - their boards by telephone communication and correspondence with neighbouring provinces — and do similar things. As a matter of fact, the major Crown corporation in the province, B.C. Hydro, has already undertaken the initiative, because they see the positive benefits of this letter of understanding. I congratulate the chief executive officer of B.C. Hydro for his initiative in contacting the hydro corporations in the other three provinces.

I am confident that we will see a similar agreement reached by those four authorities, and perhaps from there we will see the others fold in. It will not be very long until we see all of the Crown corporations going on the on-line system. I think the positive effects — the spinoffs — are going to be enormous. While we are only partly there at this time, if you come back in another year or two years, I think you'll see the program spreading to other areas of western Canada.

MR. LOVICK: For the life of me, Mr. Chairman despite the fact that I have a little background in economic theory, I just don't know where this miraculous burgeoning economy and spinoff comes from. We're talking about simply sharing information among the four provinces in terms of what the needs are so that — theoretically at least — in a free market model, the most efficient producers will know about the market opportunity and be able to provide the goods and services at the cheapest available cost. That doesn't have anything to do with creating a whole bunch of new wealth or some such thing, so I don't know what the minister is suggesting.

Is the minister telling us that he hopes that the model established, in terms of the purchasing commissions for the four provinces, is also going to be the model for Crown corporations across the west? If so, does he see that as eventually producing some kind of cartel or bulk-buying process? What do we achieve by that, except the information-sharing that I just referred to a moment ago?

HON. S.D. SMITH: Yesterday — or a couple of days ago — I had the opportunity to speak in this chamber with respect to this issue. I want to address it again because I am concerned that the minister is hearing a suggestion that it is somehow mutually exclusive that you can have free trade bilaterally between two nations. Indeed, you can knock down barriers to trade between provinces within nations and not thereby be able to pursue proposals and methods for import substitution.

Those things are not mutually exclusive propositions. In fact, what this Purchasing Commission under this minister has been doing is pursuing all three of them simultaneously, and successfully so. Let me, if I may, because it is timely in terms of my own constituency, describe how this works, how it assists small business people — and the province in creating wealth, for that matter.

On Saturday I will be leading a group of business people coming from Kamloops for the second year in a row on a bus trip. Last year some of them got up in the middle of the night in Clearwater — at 4:00 a.m. — to get on this thing to go down to Vancouver. We call it a trade mission.

What it does for those small business people is give them an opportunity to meet with people who can tell them about the opportunities that are available in terms of financing, trade missions and particularly venture capital, which aren't well known in our communities.

One of the biggest successes of this thing is when we - and the staff at the Purchasing Commission and the federal people from Supply and Services attend - go with those people and show them through the Supply Net process, which is the method by which we have made information accessible to all and sundry businesses around this province. That Supply Net process is in some way tied into — or will be tied into — the agreement between the four western provinces. In their programs the Purchasing Commission, instead of buying.... Let's use office furniture as a good example. Instead of buying office furniture as they used to from the catalogues that came from where they made office furniture — people in central Canada tended to make them.... They didn't sell pieces of office furniture; they sold systems. That precluded the small manufacturer, who might just make chairs, credenzas or filing cabinets from getting into the game, because their capitalization wasn't large enough to get into the systems business against the larger suppliers.

The way our system was set up, it proved an advantage for those who had large capital assets, made systems and who tended to be located in central Canada. The Purchasing Commission's proposals and changes have opened the process up so you can get into the smaller components. They have not done it by preferential treatment, which I think the member for Nanaimo is confused by. There is no preferential treatment involved; it has simply changed the way they do their purchasing.

[10:45]

[ Page 6068 ]

Taken together, they have knocked down the barriers between provinces. What that means for a small manufacturer in Kamloops, or in Campbell River for that matter, is that he will be able to have access to the buying power of those entities in a way that is consistent with the scale and the size of the manufacturing entity. They still have to be competitive. Goodness knows, that is the philosophy and policy of government. You have to be competitive; otherwise you just fool yourself if you put up artificial barriers. They have to do it in a competitive way, but they have to have access.

This SupplyNet thing is so successful in terms of methodology. This is why we are having this trade mission: to get them used to it; to get them to see it; to get them to see the screen and the information on there to see how they can relate it to their own business.

You can have access to this whole SupplyNet system through the device of a modem on your kitchen table. You don't have to have a whole sales structure from downtown Toronto coming out on 747s with all the palaver to come to a government agency and go through that kind of large-scale bidding process. Individual, small business people in this province, in their own home with a telephone hookup, now have the capacity to access on a fair, competitive basis this incredible buying potential that is available through our four western provinces. That's what it is all about.

It is not in any way, therefore, inconsistent with the notion of free trade; it is not inconsistent with the notion of knocking down barriers to trade between provinces; and there is no inconsistency with the proposition that you can have a strong, buy-local import substitution policy. What you're doing is getting rid of the old large-scale purchasing mechanism which tended to favour the established areas of manufacture. You're breaking down the component parts, and that gives your small manufacturers an opportunity to get into the game. That's all that is being done. It's a wise policy and a successful policy.

I sincerely commend the first member for Nanaimo (Mr. Lovick), if he wishes, to come with us on this trade mission to the Enterprise Centre this Saturday. I know that other members on that side have talked to me about doing the same thing. Nanaimo is a community not markedly different from Kamloops in that regard, where there is a tremendous need to diversify our economy, to let our small manufacturers get bigger and create more jobs by getting greater opportunity to bid on a wider variety of contracts. The way we can do that best of all in government is to make available our mammoth purchasing power.

I hope the minister is not moved by any arguments suggesting that somehow these things are inconsistent or mutually exclusive, because they're not; they're quite consistent. It's a sound policy. I commend him again, as I did a couple of days ago, to work towards expanding that process to include municipalities, Crown corporations, hospitals, school boards and the like. Frankly, they don't do enough in this province to ensure that their purchasing policy is beneficial to the business community of this province, which pays the taxes to them in the first place to run their operations.

HON. MR. MICHAEL: The first member for Nanaimo said he can't see the benefits. I would suggest that if he can't, then the best thing to do would be to visit the area. As I suggested earlier — an offer to all members of the Assembly, particularly directed to the members for Nanaimo — why don't you communicate with your chamber of commerce and business community and put together a tour to come over to the Enterprise Centre? Meet with officials from the B.C. Purchasing Commission and have a first-hand look at the tremendous opportunities and programs, second to none anywhere in Canada, that have been put together: instant information accessible to anybody who wants to participate. My very strong urging would be please, Mr. Member, take advantage of this. Go over and see the tremendous opportunities and advantages.

I know we'll never be able to convince that political party of the advantages of free trade, whether it be with our neighbours to the south or among our four western provinces. They won't understand that. I don't know whether they can't comprehend it, whether it's too big for them, or what it is. Perhaps it spells out the fundamental reasons for their failure to manage the government and the economy of British Columbia from 1972 to '75. Perhaps it's the tip of the iceberg as to the dismal failure that we saw in Manitoba during the NDP years. Perhaps that's what it's all about.

Members on this side of the House certainly see an advantage, because we know that fundamentally the goods and services delivered under these types of arrangements are going to be more competitive, more fairly priced — a reduced price overall — to the purchasers, whether those persons be the Purchasing Commission or individuals. It all boils down to the people in the street, the taxpayers, and that's whom we're interested in. We are interested in consumers having more purchasing dollars in their pockets so that they can go out and spend to provide themselves with more goods and services. That's what turns the economy. That's what makes things run, and that's why in this province we're doing so much better than the majority of areas in this great dominion of ours.

MR. LOVICK: I am a patient man, and I'm not going to give into the temptation to respond to the minister in his habitual effort to try and make everything into tawdry politics, even though one would like to.

I'm going to reserve that, because there will come a time, I know, when I am no longer going to be able to restrain myself, and I am going to — to coin a phrase — kick him around a bit on the absence of knowledge that he so demonstrably manifests every time he tries to talk about what we on the left stand for. I put it to you that we probably have a better knowledge of what a free market means than you do.

[ Page 6069 ]

I think I do. I would be more than happy to debate that at any time you care to do so. But again, I'm not going to give in to that temptation.

Instead, let me say that I quite enjoyed listening to the Attorney-General's (Hon. S.D. Smith's) preleadership-convention speech. I found that interesting. It's a speech I've heard before via other mediums; I think it's a speech he usually trots out to chambers of commerce and others. We know that, But the question remains whether the western agreement does anything except significantly expand the information network we already had in B.C.

I'm delighted that SupplyNet is working so well. To inform the minister, I do know about that. I have met with agents of the Purchasing Commission. I know something about that; I know that we do good work. The question I was posing is what we are going to achieve by suddenly expanding this by a factor of four times or something. My question beyond that was whether in the agreement we had perhaps tied our hands somewhat in terms of supporting our own manufacturers and suppliers in this province because we now had to deal with — to use an old phrase — a level playing-field among the four provinces. That's the question I've been posing; that's the question, sadly, that the minister doesn't seem prepared to answer or deal with directly. So be it. Let the record speak for itself on that matter.

In the few minutes I have now, I want to give the minister an opportunity to answer a very specific question about the whole subject area of privatization. I want him to give me, if he will, a brief status report on the activities of the caucus-cabinet committee on privatization, the body charged, according to the vote description in the estimates, with evaluating restructuring initiatives. I'm wondering if he would tell us something about what those people do and how they justify their time and activities.

HON. MR. MICHAEL: I can't leave the previous subject without stating that the member made reference to us tying our hands somewhat. I suppose we could answer the question: yes, we have tied our hands somewhat. But if the member had been listening to my previous explanation, he would have heard me say that we have never used the 5 percent preferential item that we had on the books. How we're tying our hands by saying that we're now going to take the 5 percent preferential clause away from our policy.... I'm missing something. Perhaps we could carry on the discussion, as he suggested, sometime later on.

He went on to say that all we're doing is expanding our information network, as if that is nothing. I suggest to the member that it is the most important thing we could possibly do. I expect that there will be literally thousands of modems established and placed on desks throughout the length and breadth of western Canada, providing people with instant information on items being tendered in the four western provinces. He says: "That's all you're doing." All is an awful lot, Mr. Member, and I still have a great deal of difficulty in understanding your criticism of our Purchasing chasing Commission and SupplyNet program. I am terribly confused.

To the new question the member has posed about the responsibilities and activities of the government's privatization committee, the member is aware that there are three cabinet ministers and two members from the back bench serving on that committee. We have a very small staff headed by an assistant deputy minister, Peter Clark.

It is our intent to have reviewed, perhaps by the fall, with all government ministries, their programs to date. I would refer to them as successes; I'm sure the member opposite would describe them somewhat differently. We also intend to attempt to establish initiatives for the future. We are finding a tremendous amount of interest expressed by employee groups wanting to be considered for phases in the future.

The terms of reference of the committee have been somewhat expanded from what they were originally. The committee is now looking at areas of restructuring. Because of our experience and the knowledge that we're gathering by talking to all ministries and all Crown corporations, we are finding areas within government and Crown corporations where there is duplication. We are finding areas where perhaps we could transfer areas of responsibility from one body to another body. We're finding that there are areas of cost savings — areas where service can be provided to our customers, our taxpayers, the residents of the province of British Columbia, in a more cost-effective manner, and maintain or better the current levels of delivery.

[11:00]

We have also been given the authority by cabinet to look not only at restructuring as well as privatization, but also cost-saving initiatives - a pretty widespread area of jurisdiction. Our committee, I might add, is extremely enthusiastic about that opportunity, and is working very hard in bringing about recommendations and changes which the committee reports and which are taken to the cabinet table.

We see tremendous opportunities in looking at the new terms of reference which we've had now for several months. We are continuing to meet weekly; there's not a week goes by that we don't have a report, some input, from the ministries. We intend to continue our program, meeting with ministries and Crown corporations. I'm sure that as the weeks and months pass, the member will see further positive announcements coming out of the privatization committee.

Indeed, some of the initiatives we're looking at are very small in nature. I suppose the glaring example of smallness is a two-person operation in the city of Prince George, where two employees working for the Ministry of Transportation and Highways approached the industry. The initiative was referred to the privatization committee, and negotiations were conducted and a sale made. We are now proud and pleased that we have two new entrepreneurs in Prince George who own their own gravel-crushing machine.

[ Page 6070 ]

I would like to compliment the Minister of Transportation and Highways (Hon. Mr. Vant), who is here today beside me, because that is the kind of program we're going to see more of. As a matter of fact, last Thursday we had a meeting with the representatives of the Ministry of Transportation and Highways, a presentation was made to our committee, and the number of initiatives coming from that ministry alone, from employee groups interested, is overwhelming — very exciting.

I hope that I have reviewed the situation for you, Mr. Member, and responded to your question in a manner that is acceptable to you. I perhaps have dragged out the explanation a little bit too long, or perhaps you may feel it was too short; but that is sort of an overview of all the exciting things going on within the privatization committee.

MR. LOVICK: I want to thank the minister very much for that answer; it's the most lucid and concise explanation we have had. Ironically, he says he dragged it out. It was succinct, certainly by comparison with the other answers I have received to any questions. I thank the minister for that; that was a nice change, and perhaps a sign of things to come. Wouldn't that be nice.

I see we're running short of time, Mr. Minister, because, by arrangement, we are going to adjourn this particular debate a little early and switch to another. Maybe I could just ask a very direct question for the moment: could you please tell me the current status of the proposal to privatize audiology services in the province?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: The question is currently in the hands of the committee. The staff analysts are currently reviewing the matter, and there is nothing further to report at this time.

MR. LOVICK: Mr. Chairman, I noticed in the answer to my question in terms of what the privatization group, the cabinet-caucus committee, does' everything had to do with future reference: "We are concerned with looking at and considering...." Can I pose just a very short question: what have you done since you were established? What decisions have you made?

HON. MR. MICHAEL: Mr. Member, press releases are made on every single initiative, every single occurrence. The list is extensive, depending whether you count parks as being one initiative or 45, or highways as being one initiative or 28. Certainly if you count them as being the larger number, initiatives would exceed 100 up to this point.

Certainly one of the major initiatives undertaken recently by this n ' ministry and by this committee, starting last November, had to do with the Inside Passage proposal. The concept of using the govern ment wharf facilities at Tsawwassen, the B.C. Ferry Corporation, and the facilities in Prince Rupert was good. The decision was made that the privatization committee would lead the initiative, that we would go to the international marketplace and ask for expressions of interest, because it was quickly identified as being an initiative and an opportunity that would have tremendous effects on the economy of our province. It would be a tremendous job-generator. We could identify the opportunity for 150 to 300 jobs. If we are successful in concluding an agreement, it looks like the figure for direct job creation will be some 240, and there will be economic spinoffs in the province in the tens of millions of dollars. We're looking at the payroll alone as being in the area of $10 million.

I know the member for Prince Rupert (Mr. Miller) is going to be extremely happy if and when — it's still a little bit iffy at this time — we're able to make the announcement. I feel extremely confident that it is going to happen, but it's not 100 percent, because there are still a couple of little hurdles to get over, as there always are in arrangements and negotiations of this nature.

We see the spinoffs more than just along the coastline, in Prince Rupert or in the city of Vancouver. We see a spinoff spreading throughout the entire province. People will be going on a cruise vessel to Rupert, touring the province, spending dollars at campsites, hotels and restaurants, buying goods and services. Indeed, the economic spinoff is expected to be in the area of $70 million to $80 million. Think of what that means for the economy, Mr. Member. It's going to be a tremendous spinoff in dollars for the private sector, and indeed for the government, because every time someone spends a dollar in this province, don't forget, the provincial government gets a little cut.

So that's good. It's good to see the job creation and the economic-dc activity. Indeed, that's the objective of this committee. The objectives of the committee are to deliver goods and services at standards as good as or better than what is currently being delivered, and to see them delivered in a more cost-effective manner.

HON. MR. RICHMOND: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

The committee, having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

HON. MR. RICHMOND: Committee of Supply, Mr. Speaker.

The House in Committee of Supply; Mr. Pelton in the chair.

HON. MR. RICHMOND: Just before we get to the committee, I would like to welcome a group of children who are sitting in the gallery and have been there for some time, obviously enjoying the proceedings of the Committee of the Whole. I would like to welcome them to the Legislature.

[ Page 6071 ]

ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH

On vote 35: minister's office, $333,960.

HON. MR. DUECK: Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to rise today to present the Ministry of Health's budget estimate for the fiscal year 1989-90. In keeping with the scope of the government's commitment to health care, the Ministry of Health's budget, at more than $4.3 billion, represents this province's single largest expenditure item.

For 1989-90, spending will be increased by more than $388 million, or 9.9 percent over last year's voted appropriations. In the coming year, we expect to spend an average of more than $1,400 for each British Columbian. It is also a particular pleasure for me to be taking part in the estimate debates on British Columbia's first balanced budget in ten years.

The government's budget is the culmination of many years of fiscal responsibility and prudent management, and it represents a commitment to the sound future of our province. It marks the beginning of a process which will see the economic strengthening of the province and the lifting of the burden of debt from current and future generations.

This year's balanced budget has particular significance for me as Minister of Health because for many years my ministry has been committed to achieving its own balance — a balance of high quality and affordability in the health care system. This commitment comes from an acceptance of the realities of a finite health care funding and a desire to preserve intact our excellent health care system for all British Columbians.

Many, myself included, recognize that our health care system is not perfect. Some, including a number of critics on the other side of this House who have their own political agendas, continually claim that the system is being eroded. Unfortunately, the media also often contributes to this narrow, negative focus by overlooking what they see as dull announcements, which in reality reflect significant new programs of benefit to many.

[11:15]

They focus instead on what they believe to be more newsworthy stories which, in fact, are only isolated examples of problems in the system. For every story we hear or read of someone who has not been served well by the system, there are thousands of untold stories of success. The health care system is not in decline. On the contrary, each year brings steady improvements. Arguments about the so-called erosion of the health care system are, in reality, disagreements about the pace and the nature of these improvements.

All can agree that we must continue to improve our health care system. I would ask that, in our constant critical examination of our health care system, we do not overlook its strengths and excellence. These attributes are brought home to me almost daily by visiting delegations from other provinces and countries, who view our system as a model to be emulated.

Much of the excellence of our health care system is embodied in those many health care providers who work under the umbrella of the Ministry of Health. They number close to 100,000 men and women who are employed either directly or indirectly in the health care industry. The very nature of this ministry in its mission in life is unique to any government administration.

[Mr. Rabbitt in the chair.]

The Ministry of Health is the one ministry of government which alone directly affects the lives of every man, woman and child in British Columbia. Many of those dedicated professionals are to be found on duty at any given time or place every day of the week and every week of the year in every corner of this province.

Ours is a very visible ministry, as any member of this House can tell you. Anyone will readily recognize the vital role this very large corps of skilled and committed professionals plays in delivering our many fine health care programs. I believe you will agree that they are worthy and deserving of the recognition and appreciation of all British Columbians.

. My ministry's commitment to the future is made through the prudent stewardship of health care resources through increased efficiencies and improved management coordination of the provincial health care system. These are abiding concerns that we will continue to pursue in order to meet our ministry's mandate of providing a high-quality affordable system of health care and promotion.

Our efforts, however, have not been directed to maintaining the status quo. They have been and continue to be applied to study improvements in the scope of services and quality of care and perhaps even more importantly, to the progressive refocusing of the system on wellness rather than illness and the promotion of healthy public policy at all levels of government.

My ministry's 1989-90 estimates once again renew this commitment to improvement and positive change. I wish also to point out that notwithstanding the sacrifices which a government must make in order to achieve a balanced budget, the Ministry of Health has for the second year in a row received a budget increase of nearly 10 percent.

To quote my colleague the Minister of Finance and Corporate Relations (Hon. Mr. Couvelier): "...we have balanced the budget, and we are increasing health care spending by over $1 million per day." As I indicated earlier, I believe the increase the ministry has received underscores the government's appreciation of the value which British Columbians place on their health care system.

In July 1988, I received an important new mandate as Minister Responsible for Seniors. A major priority for me has been the development of a means to ensure that the concerns and preferences of the province's senior citizens with respect to the quality of their life and the nature of services provided to them are listened to and acted upon.

[ Page 6072 ]

In order to achieve this, we will embark on a three-part initiative over the next few months. First, my ministry will soon release a discussion paper entitled "Toward a Better Age: Strategies for Improving the Lives of Senior British Columbians." This discussion paper is designed to solicit feedback from our province's seniors on issues of particular significance, including housing, health care, transportation and personal security, just to name a few. In conjunction with the release of this paper will be the appointment of a high-profile task force, which will visit 21 communities across the province to seek out the opinions of seniors on these and other important issues.

Second, new legislation will be introduced to establish a seniors' advisory council. This council will include seniors from various regions of the province as well as representatives from organizations concerned with the well-being of seniors. The council will provide me with grass-roots advice on matters of concern to seniors.

Third, in order to provide the necessary support to the seniors' advisory council, the task force and myself, an office for seniors is being established in the ministry.

I wish to demonstrate that our commitment to the senior citizens of this province is more than just talk. I take some satisfaction in the reference in the recent budget speech by my colleague the Minister of Finance and Corporate Relations to $97 million in additional funding for government programs directly targeted to seniors. As a government, we are committed to a process of ongoing dialogue to solicit and act upon the concerns of seniors. More importantly, however, we are prepared to act immediately to address weaknesses in our current system so that any future initiatives are built upon strong foundations.

The cornerstone of this strong foundation is the introduction of a new piece of legislation, the Continuing Care Act. This bill will be enabling legislation for continuing care programs, which will define the services provided by the program as well as the relationship between the ministry, the service providers and the clients.

In keeping with this first-things-first approach, a major funding commitment of more than $28 million has been made to help correct inequities and shortfalls in the funding of long-term-care facilities and to substantially improve wages and benefits for home support workers. In coming years, home care of the elderly will take on an even greater importance in our continuing care system, and it is important that government takes the steps now to ensure the further development of this health care sector. Home care addresses both the government's interest in providing quality, affordable care and the seniors' interest in remaining independent and in their own homes. This is healthy public policy.

The government will also provide much-needed funding to intermediate long-term-care facilities to increase the hours of care provided to extended-care level residents.

To encourage the use of short-stay assessment and treatment centres, the ministry will eliminate the current per them user fee.

In order to improve reasonable capital funding to private long-term-care facility operators, the capital component of the per them rate will also be raised. In keeping with a previous commitment, per them rates for long-term-care facilities with less than 15 beds will again be increased as a third phase of a three-year plan in order to better meet facility operator needs and keep cost pressures at a reasonable level.

Funding will also be provided to establish four additional quick-response programs, with two being located in the lower mainland and one each in the Okanagan and the Fraser Valley. Quick-response programs are designed to identify and prevent unnecessary hospital admissions of the elderly. A six-month pilot project in the Capital Regional District has shown that if seniors are provided the necessary supports at home by a multidisciplinary team, costly admissions can be avoided and the seniors can remain independent in their own homes.

The continuing care division has also received more than $26.5 million for '89-90 to address negotiated and anticipated union wage settlements, inflation on non-wage items, and increases in population and utilization. In fact, more than $74 million in funding is being provided to the Ministry of Health to strengthen our existing system of care for the elderly, an increase of nearly 21 percent.

As Minister Responsible for Seniors, I take particular satisfaction in noting how the many ministries and Crown corporations of government which provide services to seniors are committed to working together to provide responsiveness and comprehensiveness in their services. The Ministry of Social Services and Housing, the Ministry of Labour and Consumer Services, the Ministry of Advanced Education and Job Training, and B.C. Transit are among the many providers of services who are working together more than ever to better meet the needs of senior British Columbians.

The coming year will also see $4 million given to the Victoria Health Project for its first full year of operation. This innovative pilot project, which was started last year, is intended to focus on new strategies, techniques and ways of delivering health care, particularly to senior citizens, through a community based integrated health care delivery system.

At this time last year I was able to give few details of this special pilot project, other than to say that it would hopefully involve the development of new mechanisms for organizing and delivering health care: the use of alternative-care practitioners; improved information systems; special preventive and socialization programs for seniors; and reallocation of resources to make shorter acute-care hospital stays.

Over the last year the Victoria Health Project has blossomed into a remarkable cooperative partnership between the Greater Victoria Hospital Society, the Capital Regional District and the Ministry of Health. Commitment, consultation and cooperation have

[ Page 6073 ]

culminated in seven projects, which were implemented late in 1988. These include community wellness centres, family and caregiver support programs, a health maintenance initiative, a quick-response team, improved information systems, a rural health care delivery model, and a mental health outreach project for seniors. In addition, a task force has recently been struck which will recommend a comprehensive integrated system of mental health care for the Victoria area.

This year we will watch with interest the progress of these individual initiatives. The outcome of the Victoria Health Project will be carefully evaluated, and if it is successful, it undoubtedly will serve as a model for similar programs to be sponsored elsewhere in the province.

During the next year, the Ministry of Health's hospital program and continuing-care divisions will begin construction of 14 major projects throughout the province to expand and modernize both acute and long-term care facilities to meet the needs of a growing and aging population. The projects have a value of a $155 million and will create approximately 985 person-years of construction-related employment. When completed, these projects will add 153 intermediate-care beds, 403 extended-care beds and 60 acute care beds to the provincial health care system and will create ongoing employment for an additional 763 FTEs.

In addition, 25 projects valued at $289 million are already under construction.

[11:30]

HON. MR. VEITCH: How much?

HON. MR. DUECK: $289 million, 25 projects.

Several projects are scheduled to open during the next 12 months. While I don't have enough time to describe them all to you now, I can give you an idea of the range of the new facilities which will be brought on-stream.

Facilities scheduled to open this fiscal year include: additional extended-care beds in Fort St. John, Merritt, Powell River, Squamish, Williams Lake and Victoria; additional intermediate-care beds will be opened in Abbotsford, Burns Lake, Castlegar and Vancouver; a new diagnostic imaging facility in Surrey; and additional acute-care beds in Maple Ridge. Looking to the future, I'm very encouraged to note that the ministry currently has almost $1 billion in capital projects in various stages of planning and construction.

MRS. BOONE: Build, build, build.

HON. MR. DUECK: We shouldn't construct them? In addition to capital renewal and expansion, the government has approved substantial increases in institutional operating funding for hospitals. More than $170 million in additional operating contributions will be provided to the province's 135 hospitals to address increased operating costs and fund a variety of initiatives, bringing total expenditures for hospital programs to over $2 billion.

I believe that many British Columbians will be heartened by the government's continued commitment to improve organ transplantation services. In 1988-89 an unprecedented 142 kidney transplants were carried out in British Columbia, once again giving this province the second-highest organ transplantation rate in Canada.

In recent months we have seen the first heart transplants performed at the Vancouver General Hospital. In the coming year the provincial transplant program will be further expanded to not only allow the transplantation of hearts but also of livers and other solid organs.

The government's financial commitment to this program should allow the province's demand for adult transplants to be met almost entirely within British Columbia. The development of our own comprehensive transplant program will not only save families the stress of travel and the associated expenses of transportation and accommodation; it will also retain the economic benefits of such high-technology procedures within the province.

Following through on a commitment made last year, an additional $3 million will be provided to expand the adult open-heart program. Recently I announced that the Royal Columbian Hospital will be the site of a fourth open-heart facility, to be opened this year, and that planning is now underway for the development of a fifth centre, to be located in the Kelowna General Hospital to serve residents in the interior.

MR. CHAIRMAN: The member for Mackenzie wishes to make an introduction. Shall leave be granted?

Leave granted.

MR. LONG: Thank you, Mr. Minister, for your indulgence. Today we have with us from Bella Coola, a small community on the mid-coast which is very important in the logging industry and in bringing wood and many jobs to the lower part of this province, Chief Archie Pootlass from the Nuxalk band and Clifford Hanuse, the administrator. We also have Ron Frank, their forester. I would like this House to make them very welcome.

HON. MR. DUECK: The problems in open-heart surgery that we saw a year ago should make us pause for reflection. While there was a serious issue of shortage of trained specialists, such as perfusionists and critical-care nurses to assist in the procedures, a more important issue is the high prevalence of heart disease in our society. We know that much can be done to prevent the occurrence of this disease, which is the number one cause of death in both men and women.

There are, however, encouraging signs that we as a society are becoming much more aware of the benefits of a healthy diet, reduced stress, education, regular exercise and smoking cessation. Until such time that this awareness is translated into positive lifestyle change by all, many British Columbians will be faced

[ Page 6074 ]

with the prospect of undergoing serious surgery to treat an otherwise preventable disease.

As a tangible investment in prevention, the ministry will spend almost $2 million over the coming year to begin implementation of a provincewide breast screening program with a long-term goal of averting as many as 100 deaths annually as a result of breast cancer. Early detection should also greatly reduce the need for more radical and acute forms of cancer treatment.

The challenge of maintaining a high quality and yet affordable health care system has encouraged my ministry to experiment with innovative solutions. Ideally, these are initiatives that are best categorized as win-win. The patient wins through improved quality of care or quality of life; the government wins through the reduction or avoidance of costs.

I've already cited two examples of this earlier: home care and homemaker services-for seniors and the Victoria Health Project. For 1989-90, the ministry will once again embark on new innovative projects. These are not initiatives designed to revolutionize our health care system overnight. Instead they are a series of small starts, many of which we are confident will pay off.

Firstly, we, will continue to expand the diabetic day care programs in hospitals to allow diabetics to lead more normal lives and also reduce their needs for acute care in hospitals. Secondly, my ministry, in conjunction with the Ministry of Labour and Consumer Services alcohol and drug program, has also initiated a seniors' drug action program to encourage more appropriate use of medication by seniors. The purpose of this program is to reduce hospital admissions and health complications due to drug reactions, and therapy will improve the lives of seniors. Recent research suggests that up to 20 percent of hospital admissions of seniors result from adverse reaction to drugs.

Third, a hospital innovation incentive program will be established that will provide a total of $4 million in seed funding to encourage hospitals and other institutions to explore cost-saving opportunities. This fund is conceptually similar to the ministry's successful energy conservation grants program. Fourth, my ministry and my staff are currently consulting with the B.C. Health Care Research Foundation with a view to enlisting its assistance in developing a new program for community-based demonstration projects related to seniors, health promotion and rehabilitation. It is anticipated that up to $1 million each could be allocated to these areas. Funding for such projects would be provided from the British Columbia Lottery Corporation and would be in addition to the $6 million which the foundation will commit this year to research operating grants, health service research, scholarships and fellowships. This $6 million reflects a $1.5 million increase over the '88-89 base grant for the foundation.

At this time each year I take great pleasure in citing and acknowledging the excellence of the Emergency Health Services Commission provincial ambulance service, an excellence confirmed by the high achievement of our advanced life support team in international competition. The greatest challenge of the ambulance service, however, is the day-to-day provision of ambulance service and pre-hospital care to the people of this province.

The program is staffed by 775 full-time and 2,000 part-time attendants working out of 187 ambulance stations in 164 communities. Over the next 12 months our air and ground ambulances expect to respond to some 290,000 calls. To maintain the high quality of this service, the government is providing more than $2.3 million additional funding to address anticipated costs and workload increases.

As part of the Emergency Health Services Commission ongoing fleet replacement program, a total of 55 ambulance chassis will be purchased in '89-90 for modification into ambulances. In addition to this, a further $1.5 million has been provided to improve response times through the hiring of additional staff and the implementation of the computer-aided dispatch. This funding will also provide for the purchase of 29 additional cardiac monitor defibrillators.

Mr. Chairman, I'm very pleased to point out that British Columbia was chosen to host a national symposium on health promotion and disease prevention, which took place last month. The conference was a great success. At that conference I was proud to announce my intention of establishing an office of health promotion in order to pursue some alternative approaches to the traditional health care system which today focuses primarily on curing illness. Health promotion can and will take many forms in future years as we begin to develop creative strategies for improving personal health through changing negative lifestyle behaviours and adopting healthy public policies.

One area of particular concern to me, and one which I have spoken on to this House in the past, is the tragic costs associated with smoking. When you consider that in a typical week in British Columbia, 67 people will die as a result of smoking-related illnesses, the word "tragic" seems to be an understatement. Perhaps what is most tragic is the realization that the biggest killer in Canada is preventable.

I'm pleased that the Ministry of Health now has a completely smoke-free work environment. I am pleased to note that over 40 communities throughout British Columbia have now adopted progressive anti-smoking bylaws. It is my hope that with the assistance of my staff, many other communities will follow this approach to implementing healthy public policy. As we realize more and more the effects of second-hand smoke, it is no longer seen as just a personal health choice. Smoking is hazardous to the health of others. I am hopeful that more communities, more work environments and more individuals will begin to reduce this major health threat to our society.

To this end, as a continued commitment to health promotion and the prevention of disease, my ministry will be aggressively pursuing the development of new programs designed to enhance the overall wellness of British Columbians. I would like to start by

[ Page 6075 ]

encouraging all members of this House who do smoke to stop. Further, I will continue to pursue having non-smoking policies for all government buildings.

The responsibility for good health is the sole prerogative neither of this government nor of the opposition. Maintaining and improving our health care system and our health is an endeavour that will require the active participation of all British Columbians. Even if the Ministry of Health had unlimited resources, which it doesn't, it could not meet this goal by itself. The achievement of a truly healthy British Columbia will only be realized if all British Columbians, including patients, health care providers and all levels of government, work together.

[11:45]

Earlier, I briefly mentioned the phrase "healthy public policy." Health affects everything we do as individuals and as government. We therefore cannot view it in isolation as something that can be realized by independent action. The state of our personal health is intrinsic to every facet of our own lives, having the power to improve our lives or to diminish and depreciate them.

Many facets of our lives affect our state of health and quality of life. Governments must learn to better appreciate the relationship between individuals and their environment. We as government recognize that issues such as education, income assistance, traffic safety and the environment all directly affect the health status of British Columbians. We know that a better educated, better housed and better nourished population is also destined to be a healthier one.

I see many supportive elements of healthy public policy in the major initiatives of this budget. I strongly endorse its comprehensive package of housing initiatives, its increase to those on GAIN and income assistance and its major commitment to strengthening our educational system.

The government's commitment to the environment is yet another example of a wise investment in a healthy future. I am pleased to see that we as a government are continuing to demonstrate that health promotion is every ministry's and everybody's business. Examples of this collective responsibility are everywhere: in the effort of my colleague the Solicitor-General (Hon. Mr. Ree) to implement a program to reduce motor vehicle accidents and fatalities, through a system of fines; in the funding which my colleague the Minister of Municipal Affairs, Recreation and Culture (Hon. Mrs. Johnston) will provide for much-needed water and sewage infrastructure improvements; in the decision of my colleague the Minister of Finance and Corporate Relations (Hon. Mr. Couvelier) to raise the tax on loose tobacco; and in the development by my colleague the Minister of Education (Hon. Mr. Brummet) of a comprehensive health curriculum for grades 1 to 12.

I strongly endorse these initiatives and commend my colleagues for their commitment to working together for the better health of British Columbians and for recognizing that health promotion must occur beyond the Ministry of Health alone.

Fiscal year 1989-90 will also mark the beginning of a new and improved fiscal relationship between the Ministry of Health and the five lower mainland health departments that provide public health services on the ministry's behalf. Beginning this year, the Ministry of Health, in conjunction with the Ministry of Municipal Affairs, Recreation and Culture, will move substantially toward a standard 70-30 cost-sharing arrangement for all participating lower mainland municipalities.

This arrangement will eliminate the patchwork of different public health cost-sharing agreements struck over the years and represents the satisfactory resolution of a longstanding problem.

For 1989-90, the community and family health division will have received more than $28 million in additional funding, an increase of 10.7 percent. The majority of this is comprised of known and anticipated wage and benefit increases, funding to address non-wage inflation and increases in utilization. Included in this amount is more than $1 million, which will be used to annualize the funding of the Initiatives for Strengthening the Family introduced last year.

The Strengthening the Family initiatives have been well received in communities throughout British Columbia. Programs include prenatal education, peer counselling and mental health assessment and treatment, as well as family support and residential care. The pregnancy outreach program is but one of these initiatives, but deserving of special note. This program provides support and counselling for pregnant women, with the objective of promoting healthy pregnancies and healthy babies. It is truly an excellent preventive initiative.

One special part of the Strengthening the Family initiatives is the associate family program, which sponsors family living arrangements for the severely disabled. The purpose of an associate family is to enable a multiply handicapped child to live in a family setting, even if the child's natural family is unable to care for him. Associate families are selected for their parenting abilities and are offered special training. They then help to raise a special needs child in cooperation with the natural family. To date, commitments have been made to move 115 adults and 28 children into these homes and families,

Funding has also been provided to ensure that basic community and public health needs continue to be met. This additional funding will be used to maintain levels of essential public health services; to strengthen the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control's ability to monitor the purity of water and food; to safeguard the public from toxins and sexually transmitted diseases; to meet operational cost increases for Glendale Lodge; to provide additional beds to address increased court-ordered admissions to the Forensic Psychiatric Institute; and to give per them rate increases to mental health community residential facilities of less than 15 beds equivalent to what will be provided to similar-sized residential care facilities contracted by the industry's continuing care division.

[ Page 6076 ]

In the area of mental health, I will be seeking cabinet approval of a plan to eventually replace Riverview Hospital with smaller decentralized and community-based services. The hospital is currently operated by the British Columbia Mental Health Society. The review of mental health services has taken a considerable period of time; the needs of the mentally ill are both extensive and complex.

We have continued to receive valued input from many individuals and organizations acutely aware of the pressures on our mental health system. Our plan has had to be revised, based on this important input. While we have taken more time than initially anticipated, I am confident that the plan I intend to take to cabinet this spring will solve many of the problems facing British Columbians in this area of health care. As much concern has been raised about the current capacity of our mental health system, let me reiterate that the prior development of community replacement facilities will be a key element of the placement plan.

Early in my review of this year's estimates, I spoke of my ministry's commitment to prudent management of the health care system. To date, British Columbia has achieved remarkable success in management of its acute-care hospital system. We now have a hospital system where quality of care compares favourably with that of any other province, and yet whose cost efficiency is among the highest in Canada.

Some time ago the government came to the conclusion that in order to discharge its responsibility to provide British Columbia an efficient, effective and affordable health care system, steps must begin to be taken to improve the management of medical services in this province. In the last fiscal year we saw payments for medical services in British Columbia top $1 billion. This represents one-quarter of the ministry's '88-89 budget, more than half of the amount spent on hospital care. Yet with all this spending, some troubling questions still remain: are patients and taxpayers getting good value for money? Are all the procedures which we pay for needed and effective? Are there better ways of meeting the medical services needs of certain groups in society?

I'm pleased that our health care professionals are also starting to tackle these questions. The British Columbia Medical Association is one key group which has worked with my staff to evaluate various types of care. For example, in the past few years changes to routine protocols in the field of laboratory medicine have enabled millions of dollars to be reallocated to other more effective forms of medical care. We are all agreed there is no point in habitually doing procedures which are no longer considered useful. The practitioners and the professional groups provide a real public service when they help ensure that care being given to British Columbia residents is both efficient and effective in light of today's knowledge.

In addition, I would like to draw attention to the excellent work being done by the patterns-of-practice committee of the British Columbia Medical Association who work with my staff to review unusual patterns of billings and, where necessary, to educate practitioners as to what is medically required and what is considered reasonable professional practice. Better, more efficient medical care is the result. I am pleased to see the physiotherapists and other professional groups setting up similar committees.

The College of Physicians and Surgeons of British Columbia is also to be commended for the new office medical assessment program they have begun. I understand approximately 100 doctors' offices were visited in '89-89, and a comprehensive assessment of these doctors and practices has been undertaken. With over 6,000 physicians registered to practice in British Columbia, one can appreciate the difficulty the college faces in ensuring that members maintain their competence and keep up with advances in medical knowledge. Nevertheless, it is reasonable public expectation that all licensing bodies will ensure that their professionals are not only qualified to practice in British Columbia when they are first registered but that they continue to meet these standards.

I think work that has been done to date by the professional bodies and my ministry has been a good beginning, but much more needs to be done. To my mind, the best evaluation of a service is obtained through examining the results. My ministry is committed to working with the professions to evaluate the results of outcomes of the more than 40 million services provided through the Medical Services Plan every year. My ministry will provide the data and the statistical support, and the professional groups have promised their clinical expertise and cooperation.

We are confident that British Columbia can afford the best of professional care and that the best is truly the most economic. However, over the next decade we expect there will be more expensive forms of medical technology and that more of us will probably need that care. The high standards we enjoy today will only be sustainable through our identifying and eliminating ineffective or unnecessary activities.

I am concerned that there are still a number of communities in this province that continue to be underserviced by health professionals. Despite more doctors per capita than any other province in Canada, these communities do not have the access to physicians' services which most of us take for granted. These inequities exist despite premiums on fees paid through the northern isolation program and other incentives.

I believe the public expects my ministry to provide reasonable access to good-quality care. This means that the ministry must take a much more active role in the management and delivery of professional services than was originally envisioned when the Medical Services Plan was first passed in 1968.

It is my intention to introduce a medical services act that will enable government to address the concerns and expectations of the public today for the foreseeable future. This act will provide a fair and practical partnership between the Medical Services Commission and the professions that participate in

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this plan. The new medical services act will establish authority for the better management of the system, with particular emphasis on access to care within an equitable and fiscally responsible framework.

HON. MR. VEITCH: I move this committee rise, report remarkable progress and beg leave to sit again.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

The committee, having reported progress, was granted leave to sit again.

Hon. Mr. Richmond moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The House adjourned at 12 noon.