[ Page 3107 ]
Routine Proceedings
Election Amendment Act, 1987 (Bill 28). Second reading
On the amendment
Mr. D'Arcy –– 3107
Mr. Long –– 3109
Ms. A. Hagen –– 3111
Mr. Kempf –– 3112
Mr. Harcourt –– 3113
Mr. Blencoe –– 3115
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 1988
The House met at 10:11 a.m.
Prayers.
MR. LOENEN: It's my privilege to introduce four gentlemen from Richmond. I think they might well be the only visitors in the public gallery this morning. We are truly grateful for the position they hold with the Richmond School Board in District 38. First of all, Art Pihl, the chairman of the board; Bob Mostat, trustee; Jack Rantanen, superintendent; and Ken Morris, secretary-treasurer of School District 38. Would the House please welcome them today.
MR. VANT: I have a point of order. It's a personal matter regarding the hon. member for Rossland-Trail (Mr. D'Arcy). He indicated in his remarks in debate on the hoist motion of Bill 28 yesterday afternoon, and I quote from the Blues: "I see the second member for Cariboo (Mr. Vant) is today making one of his rare appearances in the House...." I find this remark not only offensive, but inaccurate. I want to assure this House I take attendance in the House in representing my constituents from the great constituency of Cariboo very seriously. I did receive — and the hon. first member for Okanagan South (Mr. Serwa) will verify this — a one-to-one personal apology from the hon. member for Rossland-Trail, but this definitely impugns my honour in service as a member of the Legislative Assembly. So I would find it appropriate if he would withdraw the comment formally and for the record.
MR. D'ARCY: I happen to be of the opinion that remarks such as were made by myself yesterday and by the member for Cariboo when he was speaking yesterday and by numerous other members in this chamber from time to time relative to attendance in this chamber, are inappropriate, and I do apologize.
I hope that the advice and concern expressed by the second member for Cariboo is heeded by all members of this chamber, in saying anything that could possibly be construed, even in jest, as a personal aspersion on any member.
[10:15]
Orders of the Day
HON. MR. STRACHAN: I call adjourned debate on second reading of Bill 28.
ELECTION AMENDMENT ACT, 1987
(continued)
On the amendment.
MR. D'ARCY: In making one of my rare appearances on this particular bill....
Yesterday, in dealing with Bill 28 and my view that a period of study of the major provisions in Bill 28 would be appropriate over the next few months, since there is no reason to believe an election is imminent in British Columbia.... Even if one were — as I indicated yesterday — the existing Election Act is a fairly adequate statute, provided that the people empowered to carry out the act are given the tools to do the job on a riding-by-riding basis. That doesn't mean the present statute can't be improved upon, and I'm certainly not arguing that there should not be an Election Amendment Act, because every law can be improved and altered from time to time.
However, conducting hearings in the province right now we have an electoral boundary commission, whose only mandate is to look at boundaries. I would be the first one to agree that there is a whole lot more to fair elections and the exercise of electoral democracy in British Columbia than simply the question of how many members there should be in this chamber and what the boundary provisions should be. There are a lot of aspects of Bill 28 that could, quite frankly, either be studied by members of this chamber or given over to such a competent and effective impartial third party such as Judge Fisher.
The last time we had an appointed review of electoral boundaries and practices in British Columbia was in 1978, I believe, and Mr. Larry Eckardt looked at that. He had a much broader mandate than Judge Fisher had, and he did an effective job in exercising that mandate. I have not been able to find the terms of reference that Mr. Eckardt had, but I do recall that part of his mandate was to examine alternative methods of voting, the voting age and enumeration practices. Mr. Eckardt was empowered to look into a whole number of aspects of items that are included in Bill 28. In the main he did not recommend changes other than in electoral boundaries. He essentially made status quo recommendations, which I believe he was correct in, by and large, at the time. I just use that as an example of the use of a third party to make recommendations — which of course we all know are not binding on government — regarding not only electoral boundaries but other provisions of the Election Act.
I know most members' remarks on Bill 28 have covered the question of election day registration, but as I'm sure the minister and other members on the government side of the House will point out, there are a number of aspects of Bill 28 requiring study, in my view and in my colleagues' view on this side of the House, which do not involve enumeration.
Yesterday in debate we referred to the issue of practices elsewhere, and since that time it has become rather clear that other jurisdictions in Canada, with the exception of Quebec, either allow wholly or in part registration on election day. In addition to that, a number of other jurisdictions, especially the provinces immediately to the east of us, also have a full enumeration after the writ is dropped. I am not aware of chaotic balloting occurrences in Alberta, Saskatchewan or Manitoba, for instance. Somehow they seem to manage what the minister describes as technically difficult, which is to not only have a full enumeration after the writ is dropped but to actually have people who are missed in that enumeration or who have moved around in Canada or in the provinces between the writ's being dropped and E-day swear in on election day, providing they can establish their validity as voters.
So there really are not technical problems in doing this, and it does not lead to chaotic voting practices at all. Certainly if other jurisdictions in Canada, with the exception of Quebec, can manage enumeration and election day registration after the writ is dropped, there is no reason why in this great province of British Columbia, with all the talented people we have acting as returning officers throughout the various constituencies, that kind of registration and enumeration cannot take place.
I would note that in my own constituency, for instance, we have a team of fairly competent people who are used to doing this kind of thing in provincial and federal elections,
[ Page 3108 ]
and occasionally even in elections at other levels of government, such as municipal. We even have some people who often work in elections in other organizations such as credit unions, where you may have as many as 10,000 or 15,000 members voting in an election on a widely dispersed basis. Clearly you need professional operations that are experienced in running those kinds of elections. We have them in British Columbia.
As I indicated yesterday, if there are any problems in polling stations in constituencies throughout the province — and members on the other side have indicated that there were some problems in 1986 — I would suggest that it is not lack of competency at the local level, but the fact that people simply were not given the tools to do the job. That could be accomplished under the existing act without any problem whatsoever.
Certainly all these things need to be studied. There is no great urgency. If these things can be accomplished smoothly and easily in other jurisdictions, there is no reason why they can't be in British Columbia as well.
I also note that Bill 28 makes no provision for having a consistent voting age in British Columbia, consistent not only with federal practice but consistent with other provinces. The general practice in Canada is that the voting age is 18 –– I see absolutely no reason why Canadians, young Canadians living in British Columbia, once they have achieved the age of 18, should not have the opportunity to vote. Certainly we expect them to pay taxes; we expect them to be responsible citizens; and there's absolutely no reason why they should not have the opportunity to vote on the individuals who are going to be making laws and administering their tax dollars and setting levels of taxation over the ensuing four or five years, when indeed those young Canadians who are now between the ages of 18 and 19 years are going to be certainly well past the age of 19.
So a number of Canadians living in British Columbia find themselves with no opportunity to influence the democratic process in many cases until they're 22 or 23 years old. I do not find that acceptable and other jurisdictions don't find that acceptable. I think that is one of the changes that hopefully would be incorporated by a review and a study of the provisions of Bill 28.
There has been some discussion in here — or speculation, I suppose — that the government is doing away with election day registration because of changes that appear to have occurred entirely because of the final count in the 1986 elections, changes which did not take place in '83. I have to repeat: ever since a former Provincial Secretary, the member for Little Mountain, Evan Wolfe, introduced the changes, I think in part arising out of Larry Eckardt's recommendation that we have voting day registration, there really have not been any problems with the final count.
I wish to note that while the media and the press seem to have made much of the fact that the election day results, or at least the election night counts, were revised in two constituencies, Surrey-Guildford-Whalley and Vancouver–Point Grey, a close review of the chief electoral officer's report will reveal that in Surrey-Guildford-Whalley, for instance, the absentee ballots — sections 115, 117 and 118 of the Election Act, which are not affected by Bill 28 — in fact would have been sufficient on their own to change the results of the election night count and award the seat to the current member of this House. In other words, Mr. Speaker, the section 80 votes did not make a difference in Surrey-Guildford-Whalley.
Indeed, if there had been no section 80 votes, the member who holds that seat today would be holding that seat.
There's no question that section 80 votes did change the election result in second Vancouver–Point Grey and in Nelson-Creston, one of those going to a New Democrat candidate and one to a Social Credit candidate. The fact is that section 80 votes, while they are obviously very important to electors in second Vancouver–Point Grey or in Nelson-Creston — and especially to the principals involved who either won or lost, as the case may be — made no difference at all in the makeup of this Legislature or the numbers of the different political groupings in here. In fact, in an overwhelming number of constituencies.... If we take individual members of this House, I believe for 55 of the 69 members the section 80 votes went with the winner; in other words, they enhanced whatever lead the winning member or members, if they're double-member seats, would have had had there been no section 80 count. In only 14 constituencies did the section 80 votes not follow the pattern of the ordinary votes cast in the election.
As for some sort of argument that section 80 votes tend to favour one party or one candidate over another, the records simply don't show that. What they show is that individual citizens voting under the provisions of section 80 not only have the opportunity to vote and have their ballots counted, but they do not differ in the main from the choices made by the thousands of people who vote under the ordinary voting provisions in British Columbia. Certainly in my own constituency something like 5 or 6 percent of all ballots cast were under section 80, and they almost precisely mirrored the count in what are known as ordinary votes. The overwhelming number of constituencies throughout the province showed exactly the same pattern.
[10:30]
[Mr. Pelton in the chair.]
So the government has nothing to fear from continuing with the practice, which their own administration brought in. If the Provincial Secretary today were still Evan Wolfe, who brought this provision in for the Social Credit Party, I prefer to believe that he would argue strongly against this provision and would point out how well it has worked. I have to say that even when he brought in for the first time in British Columbia these changes effective in the 1983 election, there were a number of naysayers around in the government benches and even a few in the opposition benches who said this would be a very difficult practice to put into effect and there would probably be some abuses. The fact is that no one has been able to document an abuse. There has not been — I delicately use this expression again — a prima facie case of deliberate abuse of the section 80 provisions, absentee voting or registration of voters.
As I said before, one of the major problems that leads to confusion in this is a multiplicity of voters lists. The fact that there is such a short term in a provincial election.... I'm not arguing for a longer term, but I am pointing out to the House that there is a very short term in a provincial election — a minimum of 28 days, compared with close to 60 federally. Of course, municipally, with fixed election days, everyone knows a year or six months ahead of time when the election is going to be. Because of the short term of provincial elections after the writ is dropped, it is very difficult for a great many of our hard-working citizens in this province to make sure they are on a provincial voters list in the particular
[ Page 3109 ]
constituency in which they are residing at that time. Most people are far too busy conducting their lives and earning a living to worry about some of the arcane bureaucratic practices — which I'm sure is how they view most Election Acts and quite possibly the people in the House.
This leads to another reason why Bill 28 should be reviewed for some time. There are a number of dusty law provisions in the Election Act that perhaps stem not just from earlier decades but in some cases, I think, from earlier centuries. You hear expressions such as there must be provisions in there that people can't "hold a sword at the polls." Perhaps at some point in the dim, dark, medieval past there may have been occasions where voters were indeed intimidated when going to the polls or at the polls by individuals who felt strongly about a particular candidate or party. But there are provisions such as that in the existing Election Act, which are not dealt with by Bill 28.
I would very much like to see an Election Act that recognizes the realities of a civilized country and province in the late twentieth century and makes provision for all Canadians living within British Columbia to have the opportunity to vote whenever they realize there is that opportunity coming up, even if they are far too busy or are out of the province, or for whatever reason, during most of the 28-day period after an election writ is dropped. There is absolutely no reason in this day of instant electronics and transmission of information why all voters and all citizens in British Columbia cannot have that ready and easy opportunity,
We're not dealing in the age of river steamers and the pony express and delays in the mail. We are dealing in a modern age of instant transferral of information and the instant recognition of problems where they arise. I've known the Provincial Secretary to be a reasonable man in the past. I feel that he has been somewhat hasty in having this bill called for consideration at this time, and I hope that he goes back to his treasury bench colleagues and his caucus and exercises that reasonableness that we have observed.
It doesn't change his personality over this little bill which could wait and have a reasonable review with qualified, distinguished outside recommendations from individuals such as the hon. Judge Fisher on the wide range of issues which he has already included in his bill and perhaps even some more issues which I have raised and other members of this House will raise in this discussion.
There is no great urgency about foisting a bill on the public of British Columbia when, indeed, we are not looking at an election and when the overwhelming majority of British Columbians — if not universally out there — are not aware that there were great difficulties in conducting the polling during the election of 1986 or during 1983.
There are some things there I would have to agree that need fine-tuning. We know the minister, being reasonable, will have another look.
DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just prior to proceeding, this is a hoist motion, and all members are well aware of the requirements of this House for relevancy. In debating this motion, we are debating primarily whether or not this bill should be set aside for six months. Having said that, I see a member from the government side wishing to speak. The Chair recognizes the member.... Yes, the first member for Nanaimo.
MR. LOVICK: I am wondering if the House would grant me leave to make a very brief introduction.
Leave granted.
MR. LOVICK: I notice in the gallery that a political foe but human friend is present, and I would like the House to join me in welcoming the mayor of Ladysmith, Alex Stuart.
MR. LONG: I would like to have the hoist motion on Bill 28 withdrawn for a number of reasons. I've heard a lot of weak arguments why Bill 28 shouldn't be in the Legislature, but there are so many good things about it that give people the opportunity to have more democracy within the voting system in British Columbia.
We already have ten full days to register, and we're going to have an additional six days to register. I think it's the people's responsibility — all of us citizens of British Columbia — to realize that in a democracy we must vote or we should vote, and that we should come forward and participate in the democracy by putting ourselves on that voters list and making sure we're there and that we vote on election day.
I don't think there is a member in the House who would disagree that this is the prime purpose of what we're trying to do here today. You just can't come running up at the last minute and say: "I want to vote." People become lazy, and the next thing we'd have is total chaos on election day when everybody wants to register and vote on that particular day.
I think everybody here would realize that in Vancouver it would be incredible. We wouldn't get the results for three weeks. We have enough trouble with section 80, and this is going to eliminate a lot of that problem. On a percentage figure, we have 55 percent of the time of that 29 days for these people to register and be able to vote.
In other parts of Canada, if we want to go back over it, they don't have as much time as we have. In Alberta it's ten days — that's it; Quebec, six; P.E.I., four; then we get into the Yukon, Nova Scotia and Manitoba, two days. The Yukon — one of the largest territories and one of the largest land masses around — gives them two days. So we are very lenient here, and this bill is the thing that the people need.
MR. LOVICK: Lenient, for God's sake!
MR. LONG: The member for Rossland-Trail (Mr. D'Arcy) said it was difficult to register. Taking a look at the figures from the rest of Canada, I find it very lenient in B.C. In fact, it's the best record in the whole of Canada.
One of your members from Vancouver East yesterday made a statement that I've cited case after case where section 80 ballots favoured the NDP. You're arguing something in favour of the NDP. This is going to balance and level the table. It's going to make it good for all parties, not just the NDP, and I think that's something we have to look at. Maybe that's why they're fighting so hard: it's slanted in their favour.
Again, ending the long lineups.... But I really do believe that it's the responsibility of people to get themselves on the list. We can't do everything for all the people all the time, and I think it's their responsibility.
With the new provision on polling day where they claim to be registered in an electoral district, they can vote. It will be checked. So they can still come on election day and cast their ballots, and if it's valid, they will be counted. So I don't
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know what the complaint is here, and I think this hoist motion should basically take a hike.
MS. A. HAGEN: It is significant, as we get back into debate in this House, that we are dealing with an amendment to the Election Act, because in the context of many of the issues that we have been discussing in this House, the conduct of elections is perhaps one of the most important duties that we have to perform on behalf of our electors.
I want to raise a number of points this morning about why I think it is most timely for us to look at election reform, but not in the tinkering way that an amendment bill does.
My first point is to suggest that it is inappropriate for us simply to be dealing with some tinkering amendments at this time. A number of people have spoken about the fact that we have in place in British Columbia right now the first major review of election boundaries in a long time. It has been interesting that the hon. Judge Fisher, who has been conducting that review, has taken it upon himself not just to look at the technical aspects of that review but to understand something of the nature of this House, the job of an MLA, the geography of the province and the nature of its people as he works through the recommendations that he will bring to the House. I commend him for that approach, and I think it is an approach that we need to bring to election reform in all aspects.
The judge has also been scrupulous in being non-partisan. I would like to suggest that we should be scrupulous in being bipartisan. In fact, it is in the interests of both sides of this House that the Election Act and the rules and regulations that it lays out and the procedures under which our elections are conducted are in the best interests of the electorate, which means that they are in fact bipartisan and non-partisan. That is the proof that democracy is at work and the best party and the best candidates can and will win elections.
This bill tinkers rather than looking at genuine reform, and I think the delay that we are suggesting would allow us to deal with matters in a more comprehensive way.
If we're talking about voting and how one gets to vote, we're talking about voters lists and about enumeration and about procedures on election day. It's not just a question of section 80 but that whole package that we must look at, and when we look at the question of section 80 — as members on both sides of the House have indicated — we're bringing perspectives about how one gets to the point of being able and eligible to vote on election day.
So to say again, my first point is to suggest that we need a more comprehensive review that would include a discussion of voting practices on election day; that would include revision procedures; that would look at election boundaries and how we are to continue to have those looked at and evaluated and redefined over time; and that would look at election expenses.
However, we do have a bill before us, and if we are in fact to examine that bill, we need to look at whether the reform proposed is a progressive reform. I would suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, quite strongly that the reform proposed by the Provincial Secretary is indeed not progressive.
[10:45]
About a week ago, just before I came back into the House, I and my federal colleague in New Westminster had the pleasure — as we sometimes do — of meeting with a group of students in our office. They were young people about 16 years of age, a group of about ten or 12 of them that crowded in to talk about how an MP and an MLA worked. In the course of the discussion, the question arose of "how do I get to vote when I get to be the right age and how do I exercise that franchise?" As you describe that to a young person coming into the system, you realize how confused and, to use my colleague for Rossland-Trail's comment, how arcane the system is. Quite honestly, those young people, despite the fact that both my colleague Pauline Jewitt and I are teachers, came away confused. They came away confused not because I think the teaching was not good but because the situation in which they were finding themselves was confused.
Let me just look at it from the perspective of federal and municipal aspects. Municipally, those young people can go down to our municipal hall and register and they are on the voters list. We can tell them when they are going to be able to vote. Federally, we can tell them that wherever they are living on election day, someone will come to their house and as long as there is someone in that house who can provide the information for the enumerator, their name will be on a voters list.
But listen to what I had to tell them about the provincial voters list. I told them that they could go down to the government agent's office on Columbia Street and they could register at the Columbia Street office at any time in working hours. But then I had to tell them that at some time between the time of their registration and the time of the next election there would be another enumeration and their name would not be on the list unless they were enumerated at that time.
I could tell them at that time when I thought that enumeration was going to be. I could also tell them that there was an amendment and there would be a new time for that enumeration; and I could tell them that I didn't know when the election would be called after that enumeration; and if they had moved between the time of the enumeration and the next election, they would have to make sure that they got on the voters list. By the time I had looked at all of those steps and variations, plus the fact that there are two other elections that are probably going to take place before that time, it's no wonder that many people are not very clear about how to get on a voters list.
One of the delights of section 80 in fact is that, when it came into being, it made it possible for those people who are not as experienced or who may in their circumstances have moved to exercise their right to vote. I want to emphasize, as a number of people have, the word right, not the privilege. Members of this House, it is a right and it's a right which we in our legislation have a responsibility to protect.
Just to say another word about our voters list, it is defined in many analyses as permanent, semi-permanent, subject to enumeration. It seems to me that if we are looking at a progressive amendment, we would be looking at clarifying the processes by which we would define this list — is it a permanent list? — the processes by which we would update this list using, I would hope, the most competent of technology — and I want to commend our government for the way in which it has introduced technology to the voter registration process; I think that that has been a very progressive move — and how we would in fact then ensure, through a section 80 kind of clause, that people who for some reason were not on the voters list would still be able to exercise the right.
The third point that I want to make has to do with a lot of the discussion there has been around abuse of the section 80 vote. Many people have talked about the fact that there has
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been no evidence of abuse of section 80. I'll come back to that in a moment.
I want to refer to another perspective that I feel very strongly about when I hear those comments. It concerns me, Mr. Speaker, because in preparing legislation and then having it followed with administrative and operative procedures that ensure that the spirit of a good Election Act is in place, one of the most important things in my mind is that we have an implicit trust in the voters in that particular exercise. I feel that very strongly and it bothers me greatly to hear members of this House impugning voters, suggesting that voters may in fact try to fudge the system, cheat the system or be dishonest.
Again, let me come back to my own town where in a municipal election we have totally open polls –– I can go to any voting place in my city and vote on election day. My name is stroked off the list and clearly it would be possible to know if I had voted twice. But we trust the voters in our city to exercise their franchise like responsible citizens, and in fact that trust has been manifested in the use of section 80. The suggestion of abuse is an absolute red herring and myth. When there is abuse of the system, we have laws in place with penalties that suggest how seriously we feel about any citizen who does abuse that privilege.
Most people in this province, voting municipally, provincially or federally, want nothing more or less than the opportunity to exercise their vote; and I, who have worked in elections in my community since 1972, know that the majority of them do their very best to exercise that responsibility to the best of the information available to them. I go back to my previous comments about the confusion that reigns. Imagine if we decided to have an election next October when we're in the midst of a federal election. We've been through that. The processes are entirely different. The prospects of confusion are inherent in our non-fixed election dates and in the nature of our Election Act at this time.
So let's put to bed any further discussion in this House about voters who are out to beat the system. And let's recognize that there are penalties in place, and that those penalties reflect our opprobrium of that particular action. We do not approve of people who do not exercise their franchise responsibly, but that is for the courts and penalties to deal with, not roadblocks in the place of people exercising those rights.
I want to say just one other word about the system of section 80s and the abuse of the system, again in practical terms. At the time the chief electoral officer, Mr. Goldberg, was dealing with this legislation and interpreting it administratively, I felt he made a very solid administrative ruling when he noted that a person who might be registered in another community and was not clear, did not remember — it's very easy for a person not to remember — that he or she was registered, might exercise a section 80 vote. Again, just from practical experience, I would suggest to you that people have a very strong affinity for the place where they live and for who is going to represent them in that place. We talk about this when we have vacancies in the House: that that constituency is not represented. We talk about it when we talk about constituency affairs, that working relationship that all of us have with people in our community.
It seems to me that the spirit of section 80 that has been in place recognizes the right of a person to vote for a member in the place where that person is then living, because that's where that relationship is going to be established. If we were to look at any fine tuning of section 80, I think it would be good for us, through our bipartisan process that I suggested earlier, to look at ways in which that might be clarified.
The right to vote is one of the responsibilities of citizenship that develops in a maturing way. I think most of us can remember when we first were voters. We can remember how excited we were about that first vote: we can remember how ill-prepared we often felt for that vote; we can remember a lot of the aspects of our increasing knowledge of the voting process. When you look at election procedures, it seems to me that one of the reforms that we clearly have to be concerned about is a reform that makes those election procedures a more sophisticated process from the administrative and operational point of view. I think political parties do a very important job in that regard; they do a very important job in helping to provide information and to educate people about how to exercise those right. But I would like to suggest that one of the additional reforms that we need to look at from the point of view of the Provincial Secretary's role in assisting this House to develop good election law is to recognize that the process is a very sophisticated one.
I think that we've come a long way in improving that process since I first became involved in 1972. When I first became involved, it was incredibly partisan. In fact, even scrutineers were not considered to be a part of the process; it was so partisan that very often returning officers tried to bar them from the polls.
AN HON. MEMBER: Unfair.
MS. A. HAGEN: Unfair, but very much a part of the history. In fact, in some parts of the province it may still be a part of the makeup.
Let's look at the mix of people in our province. I want again to refer to Justice Fisher and his recognition that he is dealing not just with some kind of two-dimensional map that he's going to carve up, but with a province that's made up of a large number of very diverse people. One of the things, I'm sure, that they talk about in your riding hon. first member for Vancouver Centre (Mr. Harcourt), and in many of the towns and cities of the province, is that we have people that are new to Canada. I know that enumerators who are out and about in the province often comment about the difficulty, especially when dealing with an enumeration that is outside of the context of an election, of having those ethnic populations know what the process is.
We know, too, that people now are more mobile than they have ever been. One of the interesting exercises we did in New Westminster was between the 1979 and 1980 federal elections, where you will remember there was only seven months. The returning officer worked from the old voters list from 1979. We did a fairly careful review of mobility at that time, and we found that in that seven-month period — which would be, in most instances, less than the time that this particular act is proposing as its amendment for enumeration; the spring of the year prior to when we might expect an election — a range from 5 to 95 percent moved in apartment buildings in our particular community. It was a very easy thing to do.
[11:00]
Because we now have access to phone lists, we've looked at the enumeration that is being conducted at this time. We know, just from Stats Canada phone lists and what comes out of that, that we've got a catchment of about 75 percent of the people. It's not an adequate process for people to be assured
[ Page 3112 ]
of their right to vote. No matter how many days it is, unless you go right to the day of the election, there still isn't going to be that catchment. There's been a lot of discussion that we are doing better than other provinces. It's really strange, for instance, to hear people talking about Manitoba, where there are two days to get on the list, but there's no mention of the fact that there's a total enumeration.
We need to look at a process that allows us, I hope, to move to an enumeration. If we are not going to move to a total enumeration, we should be looking at some kind of permanent list that is updated. Then we look at the period of 28 days for the election, registration during that time, and we still allow voting on election day. Most people will exercise their responsibility to get on the list, but we cannot and should not prevent people from registering on election day. We shouldn't go backwards, which is what we are doing, when the rest of the country is marching forward by allowing those registrations.
So how do we bring about the kind of reform that we need? First of all, we delay this bill. Secondly, we establish the principle that it is a bipartisan process, that people have a right to vote, that we will do everything that we can to assist voters. We will establish some conditions that we all concur with. Voters are honourable people. They are not people who will in any way be cheaters in the system, but will try to do their very best to exercise their right to vote. We will recognize the characteristics of the province: it is far-flung, we have many large and mobile populations in cities, we have people who live in small hamlets and communities. We will recognize the cultural nature of our province, and we will do things to make it possible for people whose first language is not English to know what their rights are and how they may be able to vote. We will study other jurisdictions where they are setting the pace — while we're going backward, particularly with section 80 kinds of amendments. We will put into place in that Election Act an orderly review that includes election boundaries, a review of enumeration processes, looking at new technology in ways that can help. And we will look at the administration of our Election Act, where I've noted we have made progress, but where there is still a need for us to move ahead. I would like to see us, for instance, move to having returning officers who are not just appointed right after an election — people who have some experience in that area and may continue to do that kind of work. Federally that has been the pattern and it has worked extremely well.
We need to make our Election Act one that is politically, democratically, administratively and technologically an act that we could all be proud of, so we can all go out to our voters and say: "This is an act that will enfranchise you. This is an act that will enable you to exercise your right to vote. This is an act that will make it possible for you to understand the rules. This is an act that will protect you against some of the kinds of changes that are a part of our societal characteristics at this time."
A hoist motion is often considered to be a delaying tactic. That is something I have learned in my time in this House. But I want to submit, Mr. Speaker, that in this particular bill there is on both sides of this House a recognition that we have an opportunity to work together to develop better legislation to protect the rights of voters in the province, to make some of the progressive changes that we have made even better and to be able to say that this province is a lighthouse province, a model in the election acts and administration that exist.
This particular bill is one that, with some exceptions, is taking us backward. I'm distressed that we should be moving ahead on that at this time. I'm distressed particularly because of the fact that, through some bipartisan work, through some discussion both in the community and in this House, the process of reviewing our election boundaries has moved ahead in a quantum leap this year. We started with some tinkering, which is what this bill is. And through discussion, through consideration of the real needs of the province, we then moved to a more comprehensive, non-partisan, thorough and reasonably well-supported commission. It would be helpful if the Provincial Secretary could give us some indication of what will happen when that process comes back to the House, so that again it becomes a product of the House.
HON. MR. VEITCH: It's in the orders-in-council; it's all spelled out.
MS. A. HAGEN: But in fact it is a bill of the government, and I'm suggesting that it should come back as a product of the House, so that clearly people see this as something where we can have unanimity and where there is a process whereby that unanimity can be arrived at with clearly-spelled-out rules. It's not there yet, Mr. Provincial Secretary. I think the movement is there. What I'm encouraging you to do, on behalf of all of us in this House, is recognize that same sort of approach for this particular legislation — not to be known as the Provincial Secretary who took us backward, but as the Provincial Secretary who took us...
HON. MR. VEITCH: Forward.
MS. A. HAGEN:...forward. Exactly. It is the record by which I know you would aspire to be known. It surprises me that it has taken this long since this bill was tabled last June for you to begin to perhaps hear that. I don't think you've heard it yet, which is one of the reasons why this debate is going to continue for a little longer. But you and I know our constituencies. You and I know the province, as do other people in this House. It is legislation that will remove us from that forward thrust. It is legislation that will inhibit the rights of voters. It is legislation that I know and anyone who has ever worked in an election office will know will come down on your head on election day.
As most people have noted, it is not the results that come from section 80 that have any implication on the makeup of this House. It is the principle that people have a right to vote, and we will do our very best to provide due process for that to occur.
Mr. Speaker, we are in this regard a bipartisan House. In no other issue is it more important for us to be bipartisan. I would urge members on the other side of the House to trust voters, to recognize due process and to continue the process of reform by withdrawing this legislation at this time and reviewing it with all parties concerned.
MR. KEMPF: I'm going to be very brief on this hoist motion, and I want to tell the House that I will be voting in favour of it. I've thought for a long time about this issue, as it's been on the order paper for a long time, and I speak this morning as a rural member of this chamber.
In speaking on Bill 28, the Election Amendment Act, one has to say a few words about what is really going on in this province. We've heard many people speak about democracy,
[ Page 3113 ]
and I heard members opposite speaking of democracy in speaking on this hoist motion. I think this bill is typical of what this administration thinks about the democratic process.
This administration wants to change everything in sight, completely change the direction of this province and of the democratic process. If they had their way, they'd probably do away with elections altogether.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. KEMPF: It's true. The Provincial Secretary groans, but it would be interesting to go back and see what he said when a bill was brought in creating section 80 votes by a real Social Credit administration, by a Social Credit administration that had some feeling for the people of this province.
Absolutely no thought is given in this bill to the rural citizens of British Columbia, the rural citizens whom I have had the privilege to represent in this House for going on 13 years. Absolutely no thought is given to the person who finds it very difficult to get on the voters list, and there are people like that out there who, because of weather conditions, topography or distances find it very difficult to register.
I originally had a number of concerns about section 80 and the way it changed the way of voting in British Columbia, but having gone through two elections with section 80 ballot boxes in a number of polls — because I have many, my constituency covering 29,000 square miles — I have a great respect for the section 80 vote.
As it was said by the member for Rossland-Trail (Mr. D'Arcy), every member of this House gained at the polls by section 80. So why on earth would you want to do away with it? Why? It certainly hasn't caused any problems that I know of. It certainly didn't cause any problems in my constituency. It gave the right to members who could not register. You can say that they didn't make an effort, but there are people out there who can't register, who don't get on the list but want to vote, who are disfranchised by this bill. Mr. Speaker, I can't vote for that bill; I've got to vote for this hoist motion.
I've heard members talking about democracy. Those same members had better take a long look at what this government is doing in its policies with respect to the democratic process and what that's doing to the 69 members of this Legislature and to the Legislature itself. They'd better give a lot of thought to that. The back-benchers in that administration had better give a lot of thought to what's happening in this province; they had better give an awful lot of thought to bills like this brought in by a supposed Social Credit administration. It's not a Social Credit philosophy that brings in this change to the Election Act; not at all. If it were, why would the Social Credit administration of the day have brought it in in the first place? It's the wish of this administration to change everything that touches the lives of our citizens in this province. I heard a member opposite say it's the bill that people need. Indeed. People need every opportunity possible in order to ensure that they can vote on election day, and section 80 gives them that opportunity. So why would this chamber want to vote to do away with it?
I think particularly the rural members of this Assembly had better take a long look at how they vote on Bill 28. They'd better ask their constituents what they feel about doing away with section 80. Rather than following the party line like a bunch of sheep, I suspect they would vote against this bill in this House were they to know the true feelings of their constituents. And that's their purpose for being here. We're not here for ourselves: it's for those who democratically elected us. It's for us not to speak as the leader would like us to speak, but to speak here, in a democratic way, for those who democratically elected us and sent us to speak on their behalf.
[11:15]
It's for those reasons — and a number of others — that I speak for the hoist motion and against the bill. I would hope that those members opposite who speak so highly of democracy in this chamber will do the same.
MR. HARCOURT: I rise to support the hoist motion as the junior member for Vancouver Centre of the Legislative Assembly. You can see that our senior member is here also. We're here because an awful lot of our citizens need the section 80 procedure to allow them to vote. I want to talk this morning about why we need section 80 and why I am therefore supporting the hoist motion. We talk about abuse and cheating. We have heard allegations that there is abuse and cheating. I will demonstrate to Mr. Speaker that indeed that is so, but not from the voters.
I want to quickly summarize some of the reasons that have been given by the opposition and by the hon. member for Omineca (Mr. Kempf) for why we need section 80 for the people of British Columbia. The first and primary reason is that thousands of British Columbians are left off the rolls. Even with the changes that are proposed, thousands and thousands of British Columbians 19 years or older were left off the voters rolls in the last election.
The problem with the procedures that are being put forward by the Provincial Secretary is that rather than making voting easier for people, he's making it harder, and I don't know why any democratic politician would want to do that. Repealing section 80 is unfair, unjust. It's another example of the unfairness of our electoral system. These minor little tinkerings to slightly improve the registration of voters don't deal with the overhaul that's required in this province to bring about a truly democratic electoral system.
Removing section 80 indeed adds another barrier which will keep many British Columbians, particularly young people, seniors, students, new citizens and tenants, from having access to the ballot. Those reasons have already been outlined by members of our caucus. We've also said very clearly what we would like to see happen in this province, which is specifically a fair and full enumeration at the beginning of each election to ensure that everyone has the opportunity to vote. For those who miss that process — and there will be citizens who will miss that process — why not let them have the section 80 opportunity to encourage them to vote? That voting day registration is essential.
I want to comment a bit on one of the remarks of the member for North Peace River (Hon. Mr. Brummet), who said: is the vote a right or a privilege? He said that to have the right to go to law school, shouldn't you have to register? That misses the whole point. There is a great deal of difference between going to law school and being a citizen and voting in a democracy, and I think that shows the lack of understanding of our democracy that this government has. Going to law school and having the right to vote cannot be equated. What a silly comparison! There just is no proper comparison there at all. So we need section 80 votes; we need to encourage people to vote, not discourage them.
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I want to outline some of the major reasons why I am supporting the hoist motion. First of all, the Provincial Secretary in the government has had no consultation with the people of British Columbia. Have we had any meetings? Have we had any discussions? Have we had any discussions with the people who could potentially lose their right to vote? We have had no public consultation on the proposals.
I want to ask what happened to this open government. What happened to this open government that listens to the people, instead of turning their backs on people who want to speak out? They turn their backs. They don't want to listen even in the Legislature. They don't want to listen to reasons why we should have section 80 votes. We haven't had consultation. We have the facade of consultation; people aren't listened to. Remember the Hanson commission on the labour act? Totally ignored. Remember the Jansen commission on liquor laws? Totally ignored. Totally ignored were the recommendations on liquor stores. The possibility of public hearings is what we should be looking at, not closing off votes. There has been no consultation with the people of this province, Mr. Speaker, and we need a chance to look at other systems. We have had no dialogue with the Provincial Secretary, with the people of this province about other systems and what they're doing. There has been no chance for input from the people of this province, no meetings called, no discussions with any of the groups I've outlined: new Canadians, tenants, citizens, senior citizens, students. They have not had any discussions, have not gone and sought out the opinions of these people.
And 8 percent of the B.C. voting public uses section 80s. Other provinces are lower. Why are other provinces lower? Six provinces and the federal government have door-to-door enumerations during campaigns. Why not here? We have the chance for a look at this. The Fisher commission, whose terms of reference are all set up right now, could have a look at this. There's no reason to proceed with haste. There's no election that I'm aware of in the foreseeable future — although the majority of British Columbians would dearly love to have a provincial election right now, to have a go at this government. But the Fisher commission couldn't study the specific problems alleged to have occurred in the 1986 election.
But the most telling argument against this government's attempt to take votes away from 157,000 citizens — and I'll get to the real reasons for bringing this in, for preventing citizens from voting — is that not one shred of evidence has been presented to the people of this province of voter abuse, and if there is abuse, bring charges. Charge people, and we'll back you on that; Mr. Speaker, we'll back the Provincial Secretary. If he has a shred of evidence of voter abuse, then charge those people. Don't make phoney-baloney claims of abuse.
We want to charge people who are cheaters and abusers. Yes, we do. If people are abusing the right to vote — which is one of the most sacred rights in our democracy — we want them charged. Not only do we want to have the section 80 vote maintained on election day, but we want an overhaul of the electoral machinery in this province.
I want to refer you to a very fine proposal from the first member for Victoria (Mr. G. Hanson), our House Whip, who put forward a private member's bill that we would like to see adopted by this House. It talks about voting at 18, enumeration after the writ is dropped, registration on election day, easier advance polls, disclosed election contributions, reduced delay in by-election calls....
DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. member, it is against the rules of the House to refer to any other legislation which is on the books.
MR. HARCOURT: I'm talking about some changes that we would like to see in the electoral machinery. I will not refer to that specific bill, but I am just saying that there are lots of reforms that need to be brought about in our electoral machinery. That is my point. There are far better things to be doing in this province than taking away votes from citizens. There are some electoral reforms that should be done, and I was pointing those out. They have been put in a bill, as one of the members has stated. You bring it forward, Mr. Member, and we'll vote for it.
I would now like to talk about the impact on the citizens of Vancouver Centre that taking away their right to vote will have. It will take away the right of people to vote, and I'll tell you who those people are.
Interjections.
MR. HARCOURT: I've just had an insult from the Provincial Secretary (Hon. Mr. Veitch) who says that the voters of Vancouver Centre sit around in beer parlours. Do you know something? That's the attitude that this government has to the voters. I'll tell you that the people who live in Vancouver Centre who need access to the right to vote, including election day, are tenants, new Canadians, students and migratory workers.
I want to tell you a bit about Vancouver Centre. The West End has a 90 percent turnover in tenancies every year. That's an astounding figure. These are people who are moving around, and it's very difficult to do a door-to-door enumeration. They are new arrivals to our province. The West End is where a lot of people go to get sorted out to be able to go to live in other areas of British Columbia. It's a wonderful, thriving, vital community. Why deprive those citizens of the right to vote? They may not be enumerated. Why take away that other opportunity for them to be registered to vote on election day?
[11:30]
The downtown east side has a number of veterans who fought in the wars for this country, native people. There are people who are unemployed, looking for work. Why take away their right to vote on election day?
Strathcona, Grandview-Woodlands, Mount Pleasant — a lot of tenants, a large number of new Canadians who may not become eligible to vote until the day of the election or a few days before. Why take away their right to vote? Why close it off 14 days before the election? Why? What is the reason?
Mr. Speaker, we want people to have the right to vote up to and including election day, and that's what section 80 does. Over 5,000 of the people of Vancouver Centre, 16 percent of the voters — 5, 984, to be exact, in the last provincial election — cast section 80 votes. There were over 157,000 votes cast on October 22, 1986. Why would we want to disqualify 150,000 British Columbians?
So I've made it clear that the section 80 votes are required, that there have been no specifics of abuse or of cheating. I will tell you who the cheaters and abusers are in this province. I'll tell you who stole elections for years in this
[ Page 3115 ]
province: it's the Social Credit Party, that's who it is, on a massive and continual scale.
I'll tell you, Mr. Speaker, I can vouch for those, because I will talk to you about 1972 and about the number of times and the number of abuses and the number of bought votes and the number of mickeys that were put out to voters.
HON. MR. VEITCH: On a point of order, the Leader of the Opposition is a lawyer; he is the leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. If he knows of one instance where someone bought a vote, I would have him lay those charges and name the name outside of this House. I think it is a scurrilous thing for him to say in the protection of this chamber.
MR. HARCOURT: As a matter of fact, those were brought forward in 1972 to the electoral officer.
DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition didn't give the Chair the opportunity to speak. I should remind the Provincial Secretary, and I'm sure he knows full well, that that is indeed not a point of order.
MR. HARCOURT: I'm quite prepared to go into examples of where cheating and abuse have occurred — in the 1972 election; I'm quite prepared to go into the details of that. But I'm here talking about the hoist motion. I'm quite prepared to talk about 1979 and the gerrymandering that happened there, because I happened to be the candidate in Vancouver-Little Mountain. I happened to be the candidate in Gracie's Finger. I happened to be there, and I know the impact of changing the boundaries there to guarantee a Social Credit victory. I understand what happened there, and I'm quite prepared to go into the details.
HON. MR. STRACHAN: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I pointed out yesterday during debate that this bill discusses election day procedures and certainly not boundaries, and any debate beyond that would be out of order. When I pointed that out yesterday, in listening to debate from the member for Esquimalt–Port Renfrew (Mr. Sihota), the Chair of course sustained my point of order. I think that would apply as well today.
MR. G. HANSON: The debate is around the advisability of hoisting a bad bill and the illustrations of why we've inherited a legacy that does not serve democracy and does not serve the people of the province. Those are precisely the points that the Leader of the Opposition is making.
DEPUTY SPEAKER: The point with respect to this being a hoist motion is very well taken. I've sat here now since we opened this morning, and we're supposed to be debating a hoist motion and I've heard it mentioned maybe five times. So I would just advise members that we are here to debate whether this bill should or should not be set forward for six months. That is a hoist motion. I would ask the Leader of the Opposition if he would please continue.
MR. HARCOURr: Mr. Speaker, people on the other side don't like to hear the truth because it hurts.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. HARCOURT: I have made it very clear.... Yes, I notice that the Minister of Tourism (Hon. Mr. Reid) did react with some vehemence, and I can see why, because he mentioned that I was a loser. I'd like to take him back to the 1984 civic election. I wasn't a loser then and I'm certainly not a loser in the last election. You're going to be a loser pretty soon, pal, I'll tell you that.
In summary....
Interjections.
DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon. members, let's have a little order, please.
MR. HARCOURT: In summary, I have made it very clear that section 80 is required. I have made it very clear that the bill has to be hoisted. There has to be consultation with the people of this province about a genuine change to the electoral machinery, including keeping section 80. I have made very clear the effect that this bill will have on the voters in our constituency, where we squeaked in — the senior member and I - with a 12,000-vote majority. We're not talking about it having an impact on our election one way or the other; we are talking on behalf of the citizens of Vancouver Centre and of this province.
I have made it clear that not one shred of evidence, not one specific allegation of voter abuse, has come from the Provincial Secretary or the government. I have made it very clear that it's not the citizens and voters of British Columbia who are the abusers and cheaters. I've made it very clear that the Social Credit Party has been doing that for many years. It would be a shame if this government were to try to steal another election with this elimination of 157,000 votes. That's what you're trying to do with this. That's the real purpose of this. Let's be clear: it's a continuing attempt to steal elections, and we want the people of British Columbia to know it. That's why we're asking for a hoist of this bill, for the keeping of section 80 votes and for a complete overhaul of electoral machinery in this province: so that we can enhance our democracy instead of taking away democracy and the right to vote in this province.
MR. BLENCOE: We had hoped somebody from the government side would get up and respond, but it would appear they're going to go back into their trenches, as they are doing on so many issues in this province. The Premier is away and they hide, because they haven't got any guts to stand up to issues that are democratic....
DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon. member knows better than that. I think he should withdraw that remark.
MR. BLENCOE: Mr. Speaker, I refer to intestinal fortitude.
DEPUTY SPEAKER: But hon. member, you haven't withdrawn what you said before. Would you please withdraw what you said before?
MR. BLENCOE: I withdraw my former remark, Mr. Speaker.
The reaction of the government this morning is indicative of how sensitive they are becoming to the criticism of the people of the province, how sensitive they are becoming to
[ Page 3116 ]
British Columbians feeling that this government is more and more taking on some of the basic, fundamental, democratic principles that have governed this province, and indeed this country, for a long, long time.
Although we are talking about Bill 28 and addressing a hoist motion, I think we're also asking this government to review the last few months, some of its moves, its agendas and its ways of governing the province. People are deeply concerned about the way this government is governing the province. We have before us another symbolic piece of legislation that is going to dramatically affect one of the most fundamental rights, the right to vote. We have a bill before us that is going to have the potential to eliminate, as we did with at least 157,000 votes last time, thousands and thousands of British Columbians from exercising their democratic right.
Over the last few months we have witnessed a government that seems to be prepared openly to challenge democratic institutions, principles and ideals that we have held for a long time. We have seen, not just with Bill 28, but with other acts by this government.... I refer to the ministers of state and that kind of process, the "United States of British Columbia" concept. We have organizations like the Coalition for Democratic Process starting in my community over such things as Bill 28 and other actions by this government. There are deep concerns, and that's why we want this government to hoist this piece of legislation: for them to reflect upon their actions today.
Speakers on this side of the House have asked this government in the last few days to give to us evidence of abuse. Where is the evidence that section 80s were abused? Give us some rational, intelligent reasons for eliminating section 80 voting — if that's possible for this government. Show us the abuse. Show us where people are violating the laws of the province of British Columbia. Because we've had no evidence, no rational, reasoned defence of this bill and particularly of the elimination of section 80, we can only conclude that once again it's politically motivated. It's a cynical political move to eliminate the rights of individuals who for whatever reason were not able to get on the voters list on election day to exercise their democratic right to vote at the polls on that day. The only conclusion we can come to is that it's a cynical political move, carrying on the tradition of Social Credit in this province that we have seen over a number of years of cynically manipulating the political agenda.
Interjection.
MR. BLENCOE: Mr. Speaker, the member over there says we're still using that speech. We are talking about democratic institutions and principles and ideals, and we will continue to do that on this side of the House, because we think those institutions are sacred and are worth protecting. Indeed, we will talk for a long, long time on that very topic.
What is this government afraid of about allowing people to register on election day to vote? For nearly seven years I was elected at the local level, the civic level, and at that level we had people registering on election day to vote. They came into the polling station and told the returning officers or those who were in charge at the station: "I'm not registered. What do I do?" They were given a card to fill out and sign saying that they indeed were eligible and fulfilled all the regulations or requirements to vote in a municipal election, and they were allowed to vote, and they were registered. It was simple and effective, and it continued the basic right of any individual in our society to vote in a municipal election.
[11:45]
I can't believe that in British Columbia today, with all the experts and the technical systems available to us, we cannot ensure that section 80 voting or registration on election day can be effective and efficient and work. "There's no way. You can't do that. There's no way at all." It's possible. We all know it is. In my riding nearly 8 percent of the voters in Victoria registered on election day. It worked. There were a few problems, but if we believe in ensuring that we maximize every opportunity for every citizen eligible to vote, if we maximize their opportunity even on election day to vote, I think we're enhancing our democratic privileges and ideals in the province of British Columbia. We have to do that.
Again, I say to the Provincial Secretary: table the evidence. Show us the abuse. I can't believe that this government cannot find the mechanisms and the ability to ensure people can vote on election day and to make it a very efficient, clean system. We do it at the municipal level and it works well. There's no reason why it can't work at the provincial level. The only conclusion we can come to is that there is another agenda by the Social Credit Party.
HON. MR. REID: Oh yeah?
MR. BLENCOE: Well, then, you table the evidence. Table the abuse to show us otherwise. Indeed, it's too bad that the Premier is not here to defend this piece of legislation. It's too bad that we can't even bring the Deputy Premier, Mr. David Poole — because this is not allowed yet — into this House to defend this legislation. We all know he's the Deputy Premier in the province of British Columbia today. Let's have some real defence of this legislation. Let's have the real reasons why it's before us.
[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]
AN HON. MEMBER: Paranoia.
MR. BLENCOE: Well, I can tell you there are thousands and thousands and thousands of British Columbians today who, if you say they are paranoid, I can say are very concerned about how this government is running the province. There's no question about that. They came out in two communities recently to tell the Minister of State for Vancouver Island to leave town, that they didn't want that anti-democratic process imposed upon them.
AN HON. MEMBER: Order!
MR. BLENCOE: Well, it's part of what I'm talking about, the hoist. We're asking you to look at Bill 28, but also take a look at it as part of a global problem of this Social Credit administration that is prepared to abuse basic democratic institutions and principles.
Interjections.
MR. BLENCOE: They can bleat, Mr. Speaker; they can scream from the other side. But I can tell you that the people of the province of British Columbia are seeing through this government and its actions. This government continues the tradition of manipulating the democratic process and in this
[ Page 3117 ]
case of Bill 28 are prepared to manipulate the election process.
In my riding, for example, the Alma Mater Society of the University of Victoria has written a letter — students, whom we are trying to encourage to participate in the democratic process. We're always saying we're glad young people come to this chamber to watch parliament in action. What kind of message do we send to young people who are studying — many of them — parliament and political science and the democratic process? We say to them that we have a Social Credit administration that is prepared to say to those students on election day.... They may very well be out of their constituency, or did not get registered for whatever reason. We are saying to those young people around the province that they can't vote on election day.
I have a letter from the president of the UVic students' alma mater society. Let me quote part of the letter, Mr. Speaker:
"No explanation has been given as to why the section 80 provisions are being removed, even though such a measure could disenfranchise as much as 25 percent of eligible voters.
"This is an issue of paramount concern to all members of society. Whether you are a business person who travels extensively, an individual who must relocate on a regular basis or a student, this bill has the potential for preventing you from exercising your most basic right — the right to vote.
"Let's defeat Bill 28 before it defeats us."
AN HON. MEMBER: Surprise!
MR. BLENCOE: Surprise! The member may laugh at students.
There have been some good ideas and suggestions made from this side of the House about what could be done in terms of the election procedures. Maybe a hoist motion can give this government a chance to rethink and take a look at the entire process of elections in the province of British Columbia. Rather than tinker with it and band-aid it with an ad hoc process, there should be a total review of the entire election process in British Columbia. The point has already been made that we have the Fisher commission taking a look at boundaries and making recommendations to this government. Why not step back and take a look at whether this kind of bill is politically motivated and maybe this processs should be dealt with by an independent group, tribunal or commission. For once, that would give a positive message from Social Credit. You need some positive messages these days. Why not?
HON. MR. STRACHAN: Our membership is going up every day.
MR. BLENCOE: Joining in droves. When I hear them talking about membership, I always know from a politician that the exact opposite is happening. It's a defence mechanism of desperation, Mr. Speaker.
Democratic institutions and process and procedures and how this government is carrying out the people's business is very much an issue today. It comes up all the time. People I have seen who have not been that active politically and who have never called an MLA before and who have never gone to a public meeting and who aren't particularly supporting one political party or another — even some current or former Social Credit members — are going to meetings, writing letters or talking on open-line shows about what this government is doing to their cherished institutions.
You yawn and you laugh, Mr. Provincial Secretary.
Just a week ago in James Bay in my community, on a bright, sunny Sunday afternoon at 2 o'clock nearly 200 people turned out to talk about what this government is doing to democratic institutions. And they weren't New Democrats or Liberals or Conservatives. They were right across the political spectrum, deeply concerned about Bill 28, wanting this government to rethink its actions and hoping this government, in this situation, would rethink and support looking again at cancelling section 80 votes.
In conclusion, in supporting the hoist motion, I would ask this government to stop its anti-democratic ways, to reconsider this bill and to table the evidence for cancelling section 80 votes. Let's return to real democracy in the province of British Columbia — real democracy, not Socred-style democracy.
Mr. Gabelmann moved adjournment of the debate.
Motion approved.
Hon. Mr. Strachan moved adjournment of the House.
Motion approved.
The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.