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The House met at 3 p.m.

This being the first day of the first meeting of the 30th Legislative Assembly of the Province of British Columbia for the dispatch of business, pursuant to a Proclamation of Colonel the Honourable John R. Nicholson, P.C., O.B.E., Q.C., L.L.D., Lieutenant-Governor of the Province, dated July 24, 1972, the members took their seats, after having taken the prescribed oath and having signed the Parliamentary Roll.

Colonel the Honourable John R. Nicholson, P.C., O.B.E., Q.C., L.L.D., Lieutenant-Governor of the Province, having entered the House, took his seat on the Throne.

HON. E. HALL (Provincial Secretary): Members of the legislative assembly, I am commanded by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor to announce that he does not see fit to declare the cause of his summoning you at this time and will not do so until you have chosen a Speaker to preside over your honourable body. His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor hopes to be able to declare during the afternoon his reasons for calling you together.

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor was pleased to retire from the House.

MR. H.D. DENT (Skeena): Mr. Clerk, I move that Gordon Hudson Dowding, Esquire, Member for Burnaby-Edmonds electoral district, do take the Speaker's chair to preside over the meetings of this assembly.

MR. P.L. McGEER (Vancouver–Point Grey): I second the motion.

MR. J.R. CHABOT (Columbia River): I move, seconded by the Hon. Member for South Peace River (Mr. Phillips), that Garde Basil Gardom, Esquire, member for Vancouver–Point Grey electoral district, do take the Speaker's chair and preside over the meetings of this assembly. Moved by me and seconded by the member from South Peace River. I think what I'm doing today is moving a very impartial man to take the Speaker's chair, a man who has shown his impartiality.

CLERK OF THE HOUSE: This is the one occasion where there may be two motions before the House at the same time, but they are regarded as one motion. If you speak to one you are speaking to both. Traditionally the debate is short. It is limited strictly to the qualifications of the two nominees for the position. Procedure is that I shall put the first motion first. If that carries then the other motion is out of order because the position of Speaker is no longer vacant.

MR. G.B. GARDOM (Vancouver–Point Grey): Mr. Clerk, I would like to make a statement to the House because this is a repetition of an honour afforded to me in 1969, and it perhaps today well demonstrates the inconsistency of political times and political tides. I was at that time approached and my consent to stand was then obtained. I very much appreciate the gesture today, Mr. Clerk, but I have not been approached and I have not had the opportunity to consult with my colleagues and with every respect I must respectfully decline.

MR. J.R. CHABOT (Columbia River): Mr. Clerk, I just want to clarify a point. I am sure that the government will see fit to nominate this man, because in the past they've indicated very clearly their support for him and I think they have a responsibility to be consistent in this legislature.

CLERK OF THE HOUSE: The question is that Gordon Hudson Dowding take the Speaker's chair to preside over the meetings of this assembly.

Motion approved.

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MR. SPEAKER: Honourable Members, permit me to return my humble acknowledgements to the House and to express my grateful thanks for the great honour you have been pleased to confer upon me by choosing me to be your Speaker. Traditionally I can say a few more words, and it's the last time I can make a speech. I would further say that I envy my honourable friend from Point Grey at this moment, who's sitting there. I also wish to say that eight Speakers have been killed by the King in early days for bringing in bad news from this assembly. I rather hope that in the future it will be an orderly House. I would ask you further to take a short recess and request you to remain in your seats. Thank you.

The House took recess.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Prayers.

CLERK ASSISTANT:

Office of the Deputy Provincial Secretary,
Parliament Buildings,
Victoria, British Columbia,
October 2, 1972

Mr. E.K. DeBeck,
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly,
Parliament Buildings,
Victoria, British Columbia.

Dear Sir:

Re: General Election, August 30, 1972

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor, by his proclamation issued on the 24th day of July 1972, was pleased to dissolve the legislative assembly of the province and it was necessary to hold elections to fill vacancies caused by such dissolution. The elections were duly held, pursuant to the provisions of the Provincial Elections Act. I transmit, herewith, a certificate of the Chief Electoral Officer and the Registrar General of Voters, setting forth the names of the members who have been elected in the electoral districts indicated on the certificate.

Yours very truly,

L.J. Wallace,
            Deputy Provincial Secretary.
            Enclosure.

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September 29, 1972,
Chief Electoral Officer,
Registrar General of Voters.

L.J. Wallace, Esq.,
Deputy Provincial Secretary.

Dear Sir:

Re: General Election, August 30, 1972

The 29th Legislative Assembly was dissolved on July the 24th, 1972, and writs were made returnable on September 30th, 1972. Because of a request made under section 1221 c of the Provincial Elections Act, for a recheck in the Vancouver–Little Mountain electoral district, the date of the return of the writ from this district was amended to October 10th, 1972, and then further amended to October 12th, 1972. October the 12th, 1972, was also the date set for the return of the writ of the South Peace River electoral district. The extension of time was made necessary after a judicial recount was sought and granted under section 131 of the aforementioned Act.

August 16, 1972 was designated as a day for the nomination of candidates, and August 30, 1972 was designated as polling day.

All writs with the exception of those of the aforementioned Vancouver–Little Mountain and South Peace River electoral districts have been returned.

I hereby certify that the following members have been elected to represent their respective electoral districts as set out hereunder.

Alberni — Robert Evans Skelly
Atlin — Frank Arthur Calder
Boundary-Similkameen — Francis Xavier Richter
Burnaby-Edmonds — Gordon Hudson Dowding
Burnaby North — Eileen Elizabeth Dailly
Burnaby-Willingdon — James Lorimer
Cariboo — Alexander Vaughan Fraser
Chilliwack — Harvey Wilfred Schroeder
Columbia River — James A. Chabot
Comox — Karen Sanford
Coquitlam — David Barrett
Cowichan-Malahat — Robert Martin Strachan
Delta — Carl Liden
Dewdney — Peter Carson Rolston
Esquimalt — James Henry Gorst
Fort George — A. Alfred Nunweiler
Kamloops — Gerald Hamilton Anderson
Kootenay — Leo Thomas Nimsick
Langley — Robert H. McClelland
Mackenzie — Donald Frederick Lockstead
Nanaimo — David Daniel Stupich
Nelson-Creston — Lorne Nicolson
New Westminster — Dennis G. Cocke
North Okanagan — Patricia J. Jordan
North Peace River — Dean Edward Smith
North Vancouver-Capilano — David Morris Brousson

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North Vancouver–Seymour — Colin Stuart Gabelmann
Oak Bay — George Scott Wallace
Omineca — Douglas Tynwald Kelly
Prince Rupert — Graham Richard Lea
Revelstoke-Slocan — William Stewart King
Richmond — Harold Steves
Rossland-Trail — Christopher D'Arcy
Saanich and the Islands — Hugh Austin Curtis
Shushwap — Donald Emerson Lewis
Skeena — Hartley Douglas Dent
South Okanagan — William Andrew Cecil Bennett
Surrey — Ernest Hall
Vancouver-Burrard — Rosemary Brown, Norman Levi
Vancouver Centre — Emery Oakland Barnes, Gary Vernon Lauk
Vancouver East — Alexander Barrett Macdonald, Robert Arthur Williams
Vancouver–Point Grey — Garde Basil Gardom, Patrick Lucy McGeer
Vancouver South — Jack Radford, Daisy Webster
Victoria — Newell R. Morrison, David Alexander Anderson
West Vancouver–Howe Sound — Louis Allan Williams
Yale-Lillooet — William Leonard Hartley

Yours truly,

K.L. Morton, Chief Electoral Officer
and Registrar General of Voters.

Office of the Deputy Provincial
Secretary, Parliament Buildings,
Victoria, British Columbia,
October 10, 1972.

Mr. E.K. DeBeck,
Clerk of the Legislative Assembly.

Dear Sir:

Re: General Election, August 30, 1972

I transmit herewith a certificate of the Chief Electoral Officer and Registrar General of Voters putting forth the names of the Members who have been elected to represent the South Peace River Electoral District, and the Vancouver–Little Mountain electoral district.

Yours very truly,

L.J. Wallace,
Deputy Provincial Secretary.

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Chief Electoral Officer,
L.J. Wallace Esq.,
Deputy Provincial Secretary.

Sir:

The return of the writs of the South Peace River and Vancouver Little-Mountain electoral districts now being complete, I hereby certify that the following have been elected to represent the aforementioned electoral districts.

South Peace River — Donald McGray Phillips
Vancouver Little-Mountain — Roy Thomas Cummings, Phyllis Florence Young

Yours truly,

K.L. Morton, Chief Electoral Officer
and Registrar General of Voters.

HON. E. HALL (Provincial Secretary): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Hon. Minister of Education (Hon. Mrs. Dailly) that the letters of the Deputy Provincial Secretary and the certificates of the Chief Electoral Officer of the results of the elections of members be entered upon the journals of the House.

Motion approved.

His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor re-entered the House and took his seat on the Throne.

MR. SPEAKER: May it please Your Honour, the House of Assembly have elected me as their Speaker, though I am but little able to fulfill the important duties thus assigned to me. If in the performance of those duties I should at any time fall into error I pray that the faults be imputed to me, and not to the assembly whose servant I am, and who, through me, the better to enable them to discharge their duty to the Queen and to the country, humbly claim all their undoubted rights and privileges. Especially that they may have the freedom of speech in their debates, access to Your Honour's person at all seasonable times and that their proceedings may receive from Your Honour the most favourable interpretation.

HON. MR. HALL: Mr. Speaker, I am commanded by His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor to declare to you that he freely confides in the duty and attachment of the House of Assembly to Her Majesty's person and Government, and not doubting that their respective proceedings will be conducted with wisdom, temper, and prudence, he grants, and upon all occasions will recognize and allow, their constitutional privileges.

I am commanded also, to assure you that the assembly shall have ready access to His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor upon all seasonable occasions, and that their proceedings as well as your words and actions will constantly receive from him the most favourable construction.

SPEECH FROM THE THRONE

HON. JOHN. R. NICHOLSON (Lieutenant-Governor): Congratulations and good wishes.

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Mr. Speaker and Members of the Legislative Assembly. I address you today probably for the last time as the Lieutenant-Governor of British Columbia.

In bidding you welcome to this, the Special Session of the 30th Parliament of British Columbia, I express the earnest hope that the wise council of my Ministers and the support of the Legislature will remedy some of the emerging and difficult problems in our province today. I desire also, to express at this time on your behalf and that of all British Columbia our good wishes to my successor.

It was with deep regret that I learned of the death of Mr. Harold Merilees, Member of this Legislature of the 29th Parliament who fought long and hard against adversity and ill health.

The sudden passing of Dudley Little, a Member of this Legislature for the constituency of Skeena for the past 12 years, has saddened all his associates throughout the province.

This special session will see the first guaranteed minimum income of $200 per month for senior citizens established anywhere in North America. It is this Government's sincere attempt to pioneer legislation for the senior citizens of this province. Without their energy, dedication and commitment to the province in its early days none of us would be in a position to enjoy our great province as much as we do today. This program will cost a substantial amount of money. But this wealthy province has the funds available and it is a matter of some urgency that these funds be put into the hands of our senior citizens as a right as quickly as possible.

You will be asked by my government to consider the following bills at this special session of the Legislature.

1. An Act to Amend the Land Registry Act
           2. An Act to Amend the Gift Tax Act
           3. Guaranteed Minimum Income Assistance Act
           4. Handicapped Persons Income Assistance Act
           5. An Act to Amend the Mediation Commission Act
           6. An Act to Amend the Male Minimum Wage Act
           7. An Act to Amend the Public Schools Act
           8. An Act to Amend the Municipal Act
           9. Tobacco Advertising Restraint Act Repeal Act
           10. Tobacco Products Act
           11. An Act to Amend the Government Liquor Act
           12. Legislative Procedure and Practice Inquiry Act
           13. Special Allowances Reduction Act, 1972

Hon. Members, I leave you now to discharge your legislative duties in the full confidence that your deliberations will be in the best interests of all our citizens, and may divine guidance attend your labours.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, in order to prevent mistakes, I have obtained a copy of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor's speech.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE LAND REGISTRY ACT

HON. A.B. MACDONALD (Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I ask leave to introduce Bill No. 1, intituled An Act to Amend the Land Registry Act.

Leave granted.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: I move that the bill be introduced and now read a first time

Motion approved.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I move that the bill be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

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Motion approved.

MR. N.R. MORRISON (Victoria): Mr. Speaker, it is our desire on this side of the House to expedite the business of legislation in every way possible. In order to accomplish this we would like to introduce proposals to legislate from this side of the House…

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order! Would the Hon. Member be seated? The rule on opening day is that there must be a pro forma bill of the people which has now been put to the Members. Any further legislation to be brought in has to be by notice unless there are bills brought in by message which can be brought in at any time. Therefore the Hon. Member is out of order.

MR. R.E. SKELLY (Alberni): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Second Member for Vancouver-Burrard (Mr. Levi) that Mr. Hartley Douglas Dent (Skeena) be appointed Deputy Speaker for this session of the legislative assembly.

Motion approved.

HON. MR. HALL: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

LEGISLATIVE PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE INQUIRY ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor herewith transmits a bill intituled Legislative Procedure and Practice Inquiry Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

HON. MR. HALL: Mr. Speaker, I move the said message and the bill accompanying the same be referred to the Committee of the Whole House forthwith.

Motion approved.

House in committee on Bill No. 12.

HON. MR. HALL: Mr. Chairman, I move the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 12 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

TOBACCO ADVERTISING RESTRAINT ACT REPEAL ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor herewith transmits a bill intituled Tobacco Advertising Restraint Act Repeal Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I move the said message and bill accompanying the same be referred forthwith to a Committee of the Whole House.

Motion approved.

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House in committee on Bill No. 9.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 9 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

TOBACCO PRODUCTS ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled Tobacco Products Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I move that the said message and the bill accompanying the same be referred to a Committee of the Whole House forthwith.

Motion approved.

House in committee on Bill No. 10.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 10 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE GOVERNMENT LIQUOR ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour, the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Government Liquor Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 11.

HON. MR. MACDONALD: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending — the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 11 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

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HON. D. BARRETT (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE GIFT TAX ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Gift Tax Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 2.

HON. MR. BARRETT: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 2 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. W.S. KING (Minister of Labour): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE MALE MINIMUM WAGE ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Male Minimum Wage Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 6.

HON. MR. KING: Mr. Chairman, I move the committee rise recommending introduction of the bill.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 6 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE MEDIATION COMMISSION ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Mediation Commission Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 5.

HON. MR. KING: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 5 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. E.E. DAILLY (Minister of Education): I have the honour to present a message from His-Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

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AN ACT TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Public Schools Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 7.

HON. MRS. DAILLY: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 7 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. J.G. LORIMER (Minister of Municipal Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE MUNICIPAL ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Municipal Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 8.

HON. MR. LORIMER: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 8 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. N. LEVI (Minister of Rehabilitation): Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE GUARANTEED MINIMUM INCOME ASSISTANCE ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled Guaranteed Minimum Income Assistance Act, and recommends the same, to the legislative assembly.

HON. MR. LEVI: Mr. Speaker, I move that the said message and the bill accompanying the same be referred to a Committee of the Whole House, forth-with.

House in committee on Bill No. 3.

HON. MR. LEVI: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 3 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

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HON. MR. LEVI: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.

AN ACT TO AMEND THE HANDICAPPED PERSONS INCOME ASSISTANCE ACT

MR. SPEAKER: His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor transmits herewith a bill intituled An Act to Amend the Handicapped Persons Income Assistance Act and recommends the same to the legislative assembly.

House in committee on Bill No. 4.

HON. MR. LEVI: Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee rise recommending the introduction of the bill.

Motion approved.

The House resumed; Mr. Speaker in the chair.

Bill No. 4 introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today.

HON. MR. BARRETT: I move, seconded by the Provincial Secretary, that the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor be taken into consideration at the next sitting of the House and that this order have precedence over all other business, except introduction of bills, until disposed of.

MR. F.X. RICHTER (Boundary-Similkameen): I move, seconded by the Hon. Member for North Peace River (Mr. Smith) that the motion be amended by striking out the words "at the next sitting of the House" and substituting therefore the word "forthwith", so that the motion will read "That the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor be taken into consideration forthwith and that this order have precedence over all other business, except the introduction of bills, until disposed of".

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, in examining the amendment — and I don't have a copy here, I would like a copy of the amendment. Do you have one available? Thank you. I wonder if the Hon. Member would sign the amendment, please? Every motion and amendment must be signed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh, oh.

MR. SPEAKER: Now there is an amendment to the main motion, Hon. Members, that appears to be in order unless any Member has any objection thereto on any grounds or any point of order.

HON. MR. BARRETT: I want to say very clearly that the Government opposes the amendment to the motion. The motion is obviously meant to delay, rather than to proceed with matters. It was not even signed or written properly, it was obviously a maneuver to delay the House. At no time did the Whip or the Leader of the Opposition come to my office to indicate that he wanted an expedition of the business although the invitation was extended to him, unlike previous experiences. The invitation was extended to his office to come and discuss the business of the day. He did not come to my office, he is obviously playing politics and I am asking the House to defeat this amendment.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, before the Hon. Member who is rising in his place speaks, I want to point out to the Hon. Members that the only issue or question before the House is the priority of consideration of His Honour's speech. That's to what the debate should be directed.

MR. D.E. SMITH (North Peace River): In speaking to the amendment, Mr. Speaker, the amendment is in order in that this is an emergency session, so called. The business of this session is to expediate….

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Interjections by Hon. Members.

MR. SMITH: O.K., whatever you like…to expedite, to deal with the business which we have heard brought before this House. We have already had a number of bills introduced and we would like to get on with that business so all that we have to do is approve this motion and we can get right into the business that this session was called to determine.

HON. R.M. STRACHAN (Minister of Highways): Mr. Speaker, we are operating under rules that were bequeathed to us by a previous administration. Unfortunately, these are the rules abiding in this House, and I would refer you to section 53 of our standing orders which indicate that it's against the rules of this House to amend any motion to refer and what we are doing in this motion before the House is to refer His Honour's address to the House at this next sitting of the House. These are the standing orders that were bequeathed to us by the previous administration. Until you, Sir, have a chance to look into those standing orders and correct them, unfortunately we are bound with this bequest from the previous administration, and I ask you to rule the motion out of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I think I made it plain — I hope I did — that I'm not ruling the amendment out of order, because it sets a different time for consideration of His Honour's speech, which is either today or tomorrow according to whether you accept the amendment or you accept the main motion. Therefore if we are finished with the debating, we could deal with a question on the merits on priority. Do you wish it to be debated today or tomorrow as far as the House is concerned. I would like to put the question on the amendment, unless there is any other debate on the question.

The amendment is that the motion be amended by striking out the words "at the next sitting of the House" and substituting therefore the word "forthwith". — So that the motion will read "that the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor be taken into consideration forthwith and that this order have precedence over all other business except the introduction of bills until disposed of".

Motion negatived on the following division:

YEAS-14

NAYS-39

MR. SPEAKER: Now, on the main motion

MR. D.A. ANDERSON (Victoria): My amendment would be, Sir, that the motion be amended by adding, after the word "bills" the words "oral questions by Members for a period of 30 minutes to commence immediately

[ Page 13 ]

following introduction of bills," and have here a signed copy. I do bring this forward bearing in mind the comments made a moment ago by the Member for Malahat (Hon. Mr. Strachan) who said that we were stuck with the previous rules. We are not, Sir. We may by unanimous consent of the Members here change the rules and permit the question period.

This amendment does not conflict with the previous bill passed. The bill, the Legislative Procedures and Practice Inquiry Act, deals only with an inquiry by your honour in terms of future sittings of this House. My amendment would be of course, only for the next few days.

HON. MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I bring your attention to the bill that was introduced this afternoon referred to by my honourable colleague, the Legislative Procedure and Practice Inquiry Act. My colleague has introduced an amendment dealing with one specific which in effect is dealt with by the whole gamut of parliamentary reform that we all desperately want in this province.

To do this properly we need the time of the total House. Too long in the history of this province we have rammed through things without everyone in this House having the opportunity of cautiously and prudently participating in extensive debate through committee and through this House.

Interjections by Hon. Members.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, order….

HON. MR. BARRETT: …we want progress and I suggest…

Interjections by Hon. Members.

HON. MR. BARRETT: …that it's out of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I think I must rule the proposed amendment out of order because we are still functioning under the rules that we have today. And under those rules the Hon. Member proposes to change them to provide for an oral question period for 30 minutes — setting a particular amount of time which does not exist in our rules. There's no way under Standing Orders today that that could be achieved without the unanimous consent of the House. But in the meantime the House has already anticipated the matter by placing a bill on the order paper, which deals with the very question at issue. And under a method that is different than proposed in this amendment I must therefore, regretfully rule it out of order.

MR. P.L. McGEER (Vancouver–Point Grey): Mr. Speaker, on a point of order. May I draw your attention, Sir, to a ruling by a previous Speaker of this House which was made following the introduction of the standing orders which we are now guided by. You will note that our standing orders were adopted February 20, 1930. The Honourable Mr. Davie who was Speaker during the 1932 session had this to say: and he was laying down the constitutional propriety of questions. He said:

"…a certain number of oral questions are permitted in practice by Members without notice before the orders of the day are called.
That these are merely allowed by courtesy in connection with the business of the House or…"

and this is the important part, Mr. Speaker

"…with very urgent and important matters of public concern."

In other words, the Honourable Mr. Davie did rule that oral questions of urgent public importance were in order. In view of that I think that we would be going by the rulings of previous Speakers made during the tenure of these House rules. Therefore, the motion put forward by the Leader of the Liberal Party is quite in order.

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MR. SPEAKER: I suggest to the Hon. Member that the occasion referred to there by the then Speaker of the House is not applicable to a situation where there is a bill before the House at the present time. For the first point.

Secondly, if he were proposing an oral question period at this moment he would be out of order because that would have to take place — were it permitted — at the beginning of the session and that is not at this time in the proceedings today. On that ground I must respectfully again rule it out of order at this time.

There will be ample debate on the subject of the advisability of it in the bill, I would presume.

MR. G.B. GARDOM (Vancouver–Point Grey): Mr. Speaker, if I may direct myself to your ruling and the analogy that you made with the bill.

The bill, Mr. Speaker, does not propose to bring into effect what the subject matter of the amendment is. The bill merely is a bill of inquiry as the Hon. the Leader of the Liberal Party stated and I think that there's a distinction there that your honour should pay attention to.

MR. SPEAKER: Well, first of all, the practice of addressing the Chair in that fashion is only in Ottawa and not in this House.

Secondly, in regard to the question of the amendment it reads "oral questions by Members for a period of 30 minutes to commence immediately following the introduction of bills", The question has been put before this House. It is on the order paper now in the form of a bill. A message bill that deals with all these questions of amending the standing orders. You are in effect, trying to amend the standing orders at this moment when there is a bill that has priority on that subject and you can't do by a motion or an amendment. I'm sorry.

MR. McGEER: Mr. Speaker, on a further point of order…

MR. SPEAKER: Well….

MR. McGEER: …the point that we raised originally was that we were not amending the standing rules of the House in any way. What we were merely doing was recommending to you that the rulings of previous Speakers be followed. And we well recognize that it has been the practice of the previous government to ignore the Speaker's ruling as a matter of convenience. And it has been our hope that the new government would really have wanted to reform the practice by accepting oral questions from the Opposition.

MR. SPEAKER: Well, Honourable Member, I think the Member has been here long enough as I have to remember that this was put to the House and the House decided against the Honourable Member's submission. In the circumstances I have no other course but to rule it out-of order and I so rule it out of order.

Interjection by an Hon. Member.

MR. SPEAKER: Next business please….

Interjection by an Hon. Member.

MR. SPEAKER: No, you have the question on the main motion and that, in case you're not clear on it now after all this, is that the speech of His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor be taken into consideration at the next sitting of the House and that this order have precedence over all other business except introduction of bills until disposed of.

Motion approved.

[ Page 15 ]

HON. MR. HALL: Mr. Speaker, I move seconded by the Honourable the Attorney General (Hon. Mr. Macdonald) that the Votes and Proceedings of this House be printed, being first perused by Mr. Speaker and that he do appoint the printing thereof and that no person but such as he shall appoint do presume do print the same.

Motion approved.

Hon. Mr. Barrett moves adjournment of the House.

MR. McGEER: Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: You've heard the motion. All those in favour say aye. In the middle of a vote?

MR. McGEER: On a point of order before we adjourn.

Interjections by Hon. Members.

MR. McGEER: …Mr. Speaker….

MR. SPEAKER: Would the Hon. Member be seated please?

MR. McGEER: On a point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: You're in the middle of a vote….

HON. MR. BARRETT: On adjournment.

MR. SPEAKER: …on adjournment of the House.

MR. McGEER: No. This is on a point of order before adjournment of the House. A point of order is always in order.

AN HON. MEMBER: No. The motion….

AN HON. MEMBER: The motion….

MR. SPEAKER: Would the Honourable Member pray be seated for a minute? I'll try to explain.

We're in the middle of a vote. The question was put. We started to vote when the Hon. Member rose. I would suggest he's too late. All those who are opposed….

AN HON. MEMBER: I haven't talked once and I'm….

MR. McGEER: That's what I wish to draw your attention to, Sir. It is the fact that we're violating the standing orders of the House by not having a motion to set up select standing committees as required under standing order 68.

MR. SPEAKER: Then I suggest that it be put on the orders for tomorrow.

AN HON. MEMBER: Mandatory.

MR. SPEAKER: You've heard the question that the House do now adjourn.

Motion approved.

The House adjourned at 4:15 p.m.