The House met at 3:00 p.m.

Prayers.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Atlin.

MR. F.A. CALDER (Atlin): Mr. Speaker, we have in the Ladies' Gallery Mr. and Mrs. Guy Williams. Mr. Williams as you know is British Columbia's first Indian senator recently appointed. I ask the Honourable Members to join me in welcoming Mr. and Mrs. Guy Williams.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Oak Bay.

MR. G.S. WALLACE (Oak Bay): Mr. Speaker, we have in the Speaker's Gallery today the new leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of British Columbia, Mr. Derril Warren. And I would ask the House to give him a warm welcome.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the First Member for Vancouver Centre.

MR. H.P. CAPOZZI (Vancouver Centre): Mr. Speaker, I would draw attention to my new position in the House. And I would only suggest that if there are any noises coming from the back row I'm not to be blamed for them this year.

Introduction of bills.

Orders of the day.

SPEECH FROM THE THRONE

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Richmond.

MR. E. LeCOURS (Richmond): Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in presenting the following motion, seconded by the Hon. Member for Shuswap (Mr. Jefcoat). That the following address be presented to His Honour the Lieutenant Governor: We Her Majesty's most dutiful and loyal subjects the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in session assembled, beg leave to thank your Honour for the gracious Speech which Your Honour has addressed to us at the opening of the present session.

MR. P.L. McGEER (Vancouver–Point Grey): Tell us what you really think.

MR. LeCOURS: My hon. friend will hear that all too soon. He'll wish he hadn't said that.

Mr. Speaker, this is indeed a very auspicious occasion for me. In view of my track record over the past nine years I must frankly admit that I had never expected to be asked to perform this task.

It's a special pleasure, Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that we are now launching ourselves into our second century, and I welcome the opportunity just 100 years after we joined confederation to move the reply to the Speech from the Throne.

But more than being an honour to me, Mr. Speaker, I think it is above all once again proof of the relaxed, generous and magnanimous character of our Premier.

I needn't elaborate on the fact that I have been for the past nine years one of the government's most severe critics. The fact that in spite of that I have been asked today to move the reply is an indication that whether or not my remarks have been deserved — whether or not what I have said has been right — they have been accepted freely and it has been understood that Hon. Members on this side of the House have every right to say whatever they wish, whenever they wish.

I believe, Mr. Speaker, it is also an indication that our Premier has never lost his sense of modesty, his sense of justice toward his fellow man in allowing me this honour today. And I think it's notable that while he has always been a strong man in his own right — and I knew him before he was the Premier — he has derived over the years a great deal of strength from the very fact that the people of this province have placed so much confidence in him for the past 20 years and they will continue to do so.

I think that everyone will agree, whether they have always agreed with him or not, he has never for one moment wavered in his determination to serve the people of this province to the very best of his ability. And that has been his only goal.

I note, Mr. Speaker, that there have been some other changes in the seating arrangement in the House. While I rejoice with my colleague and good friend the Honourable Member for Columbia River (Hon. Mr. Chabot) in his elevation to the higher ranks as Minister of Labour, I must say that I miss his presence here, because with my hon. friend on my left and I both having hearing difficulties, he was our interpreter. (Laughter).

In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, he was also my interpreter as far as procedures and other things were concerned. He was much more aware of the proper procedures than I have been, and much more concerned perhaps.

I'm happy to see that he has taken a strong hold in his new position. I'm pleased particularly at this time that he has invoked section 18 of the Mediation Act, because I must say that I have had some misgivings about this Act in the past while.

I am anxious to see if it's effective or not. If it's effective, fine, let's put it to work when it's needed. If it's not effective let's make it more effective than it is, and let's put the people who are on the Mediation Commission to some other task which they could probably fulfill usefully rather than remain idle, as most of the time they have been doing in the past.

I would also like at this time, Mr. Speaker, to thank the Minister of Public Works (Hon. Mr. Chant) for the fine accommodation which he has provided for the Honourable Members. It is a great pleasure to be able to move into areas that are suitable to work in, and to have the various amenities which we so well deserve in my opinion.

I am sorry on the other hand that my good friend, and former colleague, the Hon. Member for Oak Bay (Mr. Wallace) is no longer sitting in the government benches. I am sorry, because I think that he could have been a very effective Member on the government side. And I am perplexed in a way that he should have vacated his seat among us because in reviewing the record from the last session I find these words uttered by the Honourable Member for Oak Bay in seconding the reply at the last session, and I quote: "That I have been asked to speak, however, in this role, should surely prove how wrong the contention frequently is that there is no room for differences of opinion in the Social Credit Party," end quote.

[ Page 8 ]

Later in the same speech, Mr. Speaker, and I quote again he said: "The last 18 years have shown that this government believes in action." And with that I agree.

It isn't that there haven't been some good members of the Conservative Party in the House in the past, Mr. Speaker. There have been at least one or two. But….

AN HON. MEMBER: Who? Who?

MR. LeCOURS: But those one or two reached a stage where they became effective, and then when they reached that stage they joined the Social Credit Party where they could put their effectiveness to use.

I well remember the last Conservative member who happened to have represented Oak Bay — not the last member who was in the House, but the last member who represented Oak Bay.

As a matter of fact he was the Minister of Finance in an earlier government, and he led his party during the 1952 election campaign. The most important plank of his campaign at that time was that he would go out and borrow $100 million to open up the north country.

I happened to be at the meeting when he said that, and I said to him: "Mr. Anscombe, do you expect to bring prosperity to the province by plunging us further into debt to the tune of $100 million?" And his reply was: "Anyone who thinks we can develop this province without going further into debt is stupid." I must say that his Conservative colleagues in the city of Vernon came and apologised on his behalf the next day.

Interjections by Hon. Members.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Order.

MR. LeCOURS: The Hon. Member has plenty of time to get into trouble. He can just take it easy — he'll get in trouble before long.

Interjections by Hon. Members.

MR. SPEAKER: Will the House allow the Hon. Member to proceed with his speech please.

MR. LeCOURS: Incidentally, I must say, Mr. Speaker, I had set myself a time limit. But I cut these interruptions from my time.

Getting back to the point of plunging the province into further debt. I think we all know what has taken place under the present Minister of Finance over the past 20 years. Not only did we embark on a pay-as-you-go policy, but over a short period of seven years we paid off a provincial debt of $222 million odd. I wonder now who is considered stupid?

This province is the only one in the entire Dominion of Canada that has remained debt-free since Social Credit took it over.

In that regard, Mr. Speaker, I would say that the people of this province recognise a good thing when they see it. And that's why people from all parties in the province — not only from the Social Credit Party, but from all parties, over the past 20 years — have gone on supporting this government and will continue to do so as long as we have the present government.

Any government can go out and borrow huge sums of money and place the system in heavy debt — put a heavy financial burden on the backs of our taxpayers. You don't have to be much of a genius to do that. As a matter of fact look at the Ottawa government and you will find out they are doing it to the tune of about a billion dollars every year. They don't care because they're not going to pay for it. Our great, great grandchildren and their grandchildren will be called upon to pay for it. But this is stupidity of the worst kind and we don't want it in British Columbia.

You don't have to be a financial genius to go further into debt, any stupid person can do that. All we have to do, Mr. Speaker, is to look at any other province in Canada and look at the federal government of Canada and we will see that all they have done in the past and are still doing, is add to the provincial or federal debt year after year. How many of us could operate a business in that way without going broke? It is simply ridiculous.

The people of this province are not blind. They can see what is happening elsewhere and they can see what is happening here. While the federal debt grows bigger and bigger, year after year, we in British Columbia alone continue to forge ahead, not only paying as we go but also, at the same time, providing huge perpetual funds to insure that the many benefits which we derive will keep on going on for many years to come.

No wonder, Mr. Speaker, things look gloomy for our friends over there, things are go bright over here, that it makes them look gloomy. Indeed I can't blame them.

As a matter of fact the Leader of the Opposition is finding things so tough that just last week he had to take his members down to the State of Washington to see if they could gather a few votes down there. He wasn't having any luck gathering votes in British Columbia, so he thought he would take a crack at the State of Washington.

Give the people of British Columbia a choice, give them a choice of increased debt — take either the Liberals or the Conservatives, or the N.D.P., it doesn't matter which one you pick, they are all alike — but give the people a choice of more debt with the other parties or forging ahead debt free with Social Credit and you can be sure of what choice they will take.

These are not just idle words, Mr. Speaker. Anyone who wishes to compare our record with that of other provinces, with that of the federal government, and the conclusion is clear.

But getting back to this province and getting back to some of the changes on the floor of the House, I think it is rather sad, in a way, to contemplate that the rather sterile Conservative forces have been trying for almost 20 years now — 18 years I guess — to place a man in this House without success.

So finally they had to go out and get themselves a test-tube baby and the test-tube baby has emerged into the House, although there was some uncertainty as to just what would emerge, because it was a matter of "on again, off again Finnigan," for quite a while.

First of all, it was going to be a new party, then it was going to be the Conservative Party, then it was going to be only the provincial Conservative of only the federal — I am not sure which.

Finally things have settled down, at least I think they have settled down, I haven't heard the latest bulletin today. I hope the Honourable Member, my good friend from Oak Bay (Mr. Wallace) will keep the House informed as to his day-to-day status, and we will be able to know just where he stands.

[ Page 9 ]

Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, the good member for Oak Bay has cast his seed upon rather rocky ground. I am sure that he will soon realise, if he hasn't already done so, that the great prosperity which we have enjoyed in this province over the past 20 years, has been no accident of fate. It didn't just happen. Because if it had just happened, it would have happened in other provinces — which we know it hasn't.

What has happened here has been the result of the efforts of a man to whom the people of this province will be long indebted. And I am sure….

Interjection by Hon. Members.

MR. LeCOURS: I am glad, Mr. Speaker, that the Hon. Members opposite have indicated they are indebted to him because I know they are. Because no matter what side of the House Honourable Members sit on, I am sure they are prepared to acknowledge that without his help, this province would not be sitting in the most happy situation that it is sitting in today. I am sure also that as long as he wishes to lead the destiny of this province, he will be most welcome, on both sides of the House.

I have noticed though that we have enjoyed all this success in spite of a far less than adequate financial climate that has been provided for us by federal governments over this past 20 years. Unfortunately men of the calibre we have enjoyed are not readily available, and there has not been one available to take over in Ottawa. But the day may come, and I hope it will be soon.

Looking over the leadership of the federal parties, I can see that more and more, the picture is emerging something like this.

The present Prime Minister is looking more and more like the man that you wouldn't want to buy a used car from, the present leader of the Progressive Conservative Party, like the man who bought a used car from the Prime Minister. The federal leader of the N.D.P. looks like the fellow who came along to rescue Mr. Stanfield and took off with the car!

Only in Mr. Caouette do I see any hope. In Mr. Caouette, Mr. Speaker, I see the man who recovers the car, puts a new motor in it, and gets Canada back on its feet.

In his Christmas message, Mr. Speaker, our Premier told the people of this province that we have a great deal to be thankful for.

In listening to the reading of the Speech from the Throne yesterday, we are once again reminded that this is true. Because as we look back over the 20 years, we find that each year has been more promising and more exciting than the last.

Little wonder then that every year looks like an election year. Little wonder then that we have always been prepared to give the people an opportunity to express their opinions with respect to this government. Little wonder then that they have been given ample opportunity to say, "go on and do it again, we like what you are doing." And little wonder that they may be given that opportunity again before too long.

Interjection by Hon. Member.

MR. LeCOURS: We are always ready.

I am trying to confine myself to my own time limits and I would like to go on and elaborate and review some of the matters that were brought up in the Speech from the Throne yesterday but for the sake of time saving, I am going to forego that pleasure for today and do it some other time.

MR. D. BARRETT (Leader of the Opposition): Take a minute and do the whole thing.

MR. LeCOURS: I think, Mr. Speaker, that I must mention that in spite of the fact that we are labouring under an economic system that is really a blueprint for failure, in relation to other provinces, we come out shining very brightly. That is the important thing. It is not what we could do under the proper circumstances, but it is the best that anybody has done under the present circumstances — that's what is important.

For quite some time now, Mr. Speaker, the leaders of the 10 richest countries in the western world have been meeting here and there throughout the world to discuss the economic crisis we now face. As a matter of fact, it is so serious in some parts of the world, that many people only speak of it in hushed tones.

Those of us who lived through the depression of the thirties, know that a depression can be a very devastating affair. And in spite of all the figures we hear, in spite of what we hear about how things are looking better and how the number of the employed is greater than last year and all this other gobbledegook, I think that we must consider the fact that those who are unemployed — wherever they may be in Canada — are unhappy and no one can blame them for being unhappy. It is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs and one which in my opinion need not be.

I am satisfied that with the proper leadership and the proper administration of our economic system by the senior government in Ottawa, there is no need whatsoever to have such things as poverty and unemployment in a country as rich as Canada. And I say that with a Social Credit government in Ottawa, we would put an end to poverty and we would put an end to involuntary unemployment within a matter of six months.

It is as simple as that. It is not a difficult matter — it is simply a matter of people trying to confuse themselves with something that is not at all confusing but just requires the application of some common sense.

I was distressed recently, just a few months ago — in the fall as a matter of fact — to see such things as this picture here where large numbers of people are eating at what we used to call the bread lines during the hungry thirties. I think it is a disgrace that it should happen at this time in our history when we are so capable of producing so amply.

Mr. Speaker, I think that we must ask ourselves some questions, and I have a few here that I would just like to run over quickly.

If an individual produces an item, he either produces it for his own use or for sale. If he can use it himself, fine. If he wants to sell it, that's fine. But he must be able to dispose of it and I think the same should apply to a country whether it is large or small

If a country has as its objective to produce goods for the benefit of the people then they must be able to dispose of those goods.

The more an individual produces the wealthier he is. The same thing applies to a country. The more a country is able to produce — the wealthier that country is. I don't think anybody will argue with the fact that Canada is able to produce much more than enough to supply our needs. Why then do we have poor people? And I say that the fault lies with the federal government who fail to provide the proper economic climate for full employment.

These people the ministers of finance of the various

[ Page 10 ]

countries in the world — and Canada is not alone in this state — are going around talking about an economic crisis.

I hope you have noticed, Mr. Speaker, that none of them are talking about a shortage of goods. None of them are saying that we can't produce enough to supply our needs, they are all saying we have a financial crisis which is created by the economic system, and I say that it is up to us to do something about correcting that economic system to make it work on behalf of the people instead of against them. And that matter is not too difficult either.

Per capita production in 1971 exceeded $4,000 — over $4,000 per capita production in 1971. We know therefore that as a nation we can produce everything that we need. So what's the trouble? Why are people poor?

Is it either because they are not producing or because they are not disposing of their production or perhaps a combination of these two? If they are not producing maybe they deserve to be poor, unless they are handicapped and unable to work. But if they are not disposing of their production, when they want to dispose of it, we must ask ourselves why.

Is it because what they are producing is not of sufficiently good quality to satisfy even the poor people in the country? Or is it because no one wants what they are producing in spite of the poverty which exists? Or is it because no matter how good their production is, the people who want it do not have the income required to buy it with?

I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that the latter is the real answer. The people lack the income to buy the production which has been waiting on the shelves — waiting for buyers.

This is the very same situation that existed during the depression. Every storehouse and every warehouse and every store in the country was bulging at the seams and people were going around riding the rods and bumming around from one end of the country to. the other trying to get something to eat, begging for jobs and offering to pay for them.

I do not want to see it happen again, Mr. Speaker. I think it is time that we showed the world that Canada can lead. Canada is not poor, only the people are poor and the same situation exists in many other countries of the world. Every country has great wealth to explore. What are we doing with it? I think it is time that we had a serious look at what we have been doing.

I have a few headlines here which are worthy of note.

Vancouver Sun, October 14, 1971. The headline says, "Unemployment a Ten-Year High." Two days later Vancouver Province says, on the front page, "Buoyant Times lie Ahead — P.M." Two days later!

You know, it doesn't make much sense, does it? "Buoyant times ahead, " but they have been telling us that for ever and ever. Mackenzie King told us that in 1934 but it hasn't changed.

Where are the buoyant times? Here on January 11 of this year, just a little better than a week ago, "more jobless, but the situation improves."

That I call Liberal logic. That is what comes, from Ottawa; "more jobless but the situation improves." Improves for who? Has there been improvement for those who are out of work? Has there been improvement for those who have been on welfare and don't want to be?

Let's have something concrete., Have you heard any member of the federal government offer one suggestion that can be encouraging? Have you heard one word from the Leader of the Official Opposition in Ottawa that could encourage you to want to support him?

He hasn't had an idea since he has been Leader of the Opposition. He hasn't come out with one suggestion as to what could be done to further the prosperity of the people of this province. Here is another headline from Wednesday, January 12, just last week. "Outlook Bleak for Student Jobs, " again from Ottawa. Sure it is bleak, but what are they doing about it?

Here is another headline from January 11, 1972, just last week from the Vancouver Sun. This shows you some more of the Liberal philosophy. This is from St. John's, Newfoundland, and listen well to this, because this is the kind of thing you can expect from Liberal leadership. Joseph Neary, the only declared candidate for Premier Joey Smallwood's job as Liberal Leader, you know what he said? "Dig a Tunnel by Hand, Liberal Suggests." Dig a tunnel by hand…he wants to go back in history 100 years. I wonder why they didn't say use teaspoons and make it last 1,000 years.

I suppose that the next time we build a dam in this province, our Liberal friends are going to suggest that they do as they did when they built the Great Wall of China. They had all the workers carry the rocks and stones by hand and carry the sand and gravel in handbasins to make the job last. That's Liberal philosophy in keeping with the progress which they have made over the years.

I mentioned Mackenzie King a few moments ago, Mr. Speaker, and I want to quote just briefly what he said in 1934 in Saskatoon. I'm wondering what they're waiting for to implement this particular promise that he made in 1934. Had they not enough time over the past 38 years?

He said this and I quote: "Until the control of currency and credit is restored to government and recognised as its most precious and sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and democracy is idle and futile."

And I say that's just what it is, it's idle and futile, it's balderdash, it's gobbledegook. It means nothing. They're just words that mean nothing and certainly do not deserve our support nor our encouragement.

I want to quote here just briefly from Mr. Alfred Carlson who is a professor of Economics at Royal Roads Military College here in Victoria. Just briefly, he says this: "All Canadians agree that our economy is sick." And at the end of this article which appeared in the Vancouver Sun on October 16 last: "Our most serious challenge, however, is one of ignorance of the facts and unwillingness to face these facts. Whatever policies are thrust upon us in the critical days ahead, one policy is a must. The facts underlying our malaise must be articulated clearly to the Canadian people."

I certainly endorse that, Mr. Speaker. The problems which exist in Canada, as in many other countries throughout the free world, must be emphasized to the people. We must save our system before it's too late, and we are going to save it only by exposing the faults which lie in our system — by altering the system to make it fit the needs of the day, of the present time.

We're not going to go down the drain as so many countries have over the past 50 years. I want a fair democracy for those who want it and like it.

Another headline here, Mr. Speaker, taken from the Vancouver Sun, December 29, 1971, and this is from a meeting of the International Monetary Fund. These are the people who are struggling with the economic crisis which exists in the world and for those who are not aware of the International Monetary Fund, it is made up of 118 countries throughout the free world.

They are the ones who set up the Bretton Woods

[ Page 11 ]

agreement which our Social Credit colleagues in Ottawa opposed very strongly right after the war. But they were overruled by the stronger forces of the Liberals and Conservatives, who could not see beyond their noses, who could not see that we were heading for disaster.

Here's what this meeting of the International Monetary Fund said recently. They passed a resolution and the resolution also asked the 12-member board of executive directors to — and I quote now — "make reports without delay on the measures that are necessary or desirable for improvement or reform of the international monetary system."

They too recognise that the international monetary system must be changed if we are going to survive with our present-day capitalist system, which I am sure we all want to preserve.

Then on October 2 last, again the financial experts from the International Monetary Fund met and they said that the chief cause of the illness which exists in our economic system, the experts agreed, is the massive U.S. balance of payments deficit.

The proposal which emerged from the talks is that countries repeg their currency in relation to I.M.F. special drawing rights called SDR's, and this is important, I think.

These SDR's are nothing more than bookkeeping entries which are worth the same as the U.S. dollar, one thirty-fifth of an ounce of gold, at that time.

There's a good deal made, Mr. Speaker, about the balance of payments. What a lot of people forget is that trade between nations is just that; it's trading surpluses which we have here for goods which we need coming from elsewhere. Trading with other nations — our goods for their goods — does not alter the fact that unless the people in our country have enough dollars to buy the goods, whether domestic goods or imported goods we get in exchange, then we are going to have unsold goods and when we have unsold goods we have people laid off work.

When people are laid off work we call them unemployed and when they're unemployed they don't spend much money and when they don't spend much money people who have goods to sell, sell fewer goods and the situation gets worse and worse until we reach a point where we again have a depression and I don't want another depression, Mr. Speaker. One was quite enough for me.

I'm pleased to see that recently — as a matter of fact, this is dated October 25, 1971 — and it's datelined Vatican City, the headline says "Social Injustice is Charged by Bishop." I want to quote just briefly a few lines from this item which appeared in the Vancouver Sun.

"A member of the World Synod of Bishops, summing up 10 days of debate on social justice, charged today that some Christians live in social sin because of the disproportionate riches and power they possess."

And farther down the Synod applauded the spokesman when he finished, and I quote what he said:

"Assuming the church and its communities must be an example of justice, are we prepared to put concrete policies into practice? How does it happen that after 2,000 years of uninterrupted preaching of Christian charity, the church must admit the scarcity of the results obtained in shaping the conscience of its members?"

This is a very happy development for me, Mr. Speaker, because I think it's time that the church took a strong hand in shaping the temporal welfare of the people of the world.

If Hon. Members have been following what has been taking place over the past few months with respect to the economic crisis, you will find that every country is striving for the same thing and that is a trade surplus.

I said it last year a couple of times, I said it before, and I will be saying it again, Mr. Speaker. It's physically impossible for every country to show a trade surplus.

A satisfactory trade balance is a neutral trade balance. If you export $10 billion worth of goods you have to expect to import $10 billion worth of goods into your country. That is a satisfactory trade balance. It makes little difference really what you export and what you import as long as the people of your country have money, have dollars with which to buy the goods that are for sale.

It wouldn't matter if you exported 90 per cent of your production and brought in a like amount from elsewhere. If people have no money to spend you're wasting your time. There's no possible reason for bringing goods into the country unless people can buy them.

It's much like a poker game, Mr. Speaker. If six men go into a room with $1,000 apiece and play poker all night they're going to emerge from that room with a total of $6,000, no more and no less. One man may have it all or five men may have most of it and one man may be broke; but whatever the arrangement may be the amount that comes out of the room will be the same as went in and that's why we have to rectify the faults that lie in our economic system whereby the amount of money that's expended to produce any item or any number of items is never enough to buy that item or those items back.

We must supplement the income of the people through using the Bank of Canada to send the money into circulation to make it physically possible to buy back our production. That will put an end to unemployment, that will put an end to poverty.

Now, I have here a report of a talk given by the chairman of the board of the Chase National Bank, and this is taken from the Vancouver Sun on Monday of this week, just a few days ago. In his talk, this gentleman said that John Hersey put it this way in his book "Letter to the Alumni":

The vast majority of young people believe that greed is at the root of most of the misery in the world, that most business systematizes greed. No professor could possibly lecture that conviction out of students' minds, because there are too many demonstrations of the truth of it on the part of American business and labour unions.

In that regard, Mr. Speaker, I think it's safe to say that when big labour unions negotiate with big business concerns, when they have what they call collective bargaining, there's no bargaining at all. All they're doing is determining just how tight they're going to put the screws on the people of the province or the country.

That's all they're determining, how tight can they tighten those screws on the poor unsuspecting and defenceless public. That's what they call collective bargaining. They are reaching into the pockets of every poor person in the province and taking a little more for their share and leaving the poor people with a little bit less every time they come to some settlement which is going to cost the consumer more money.

A bit further on in this same talk by the chairman of the board of the Chase National Bank, he says this: "So, it is up to businessmen to make common cause with other reformers, whether in government or on the campus or wherever to prevent the unwise adoption of extreme and emotional but on the contrary to initiate neccessary reforms

[ Page 12 ]

that will make it possible for business to continue to function in a now climate as a constructive force in our society." And with that I agree, Mr. Speaker.

We must prevent the unwise adoption of extreme or emotional remedies and we will only do this if we apply sensible remedies. We can't sit idly by and wait for somebody else to do it, we have to do it. We have to make sure that Ottawa puts in the necessary reforms to make our economic system work for the people of Canada. We can lend a hand, we can keep knocking at their door, we can keep pointing out to them what's wrong and I think, we can achieve the results in the long run.

I had been talking about the unions just a minute ago. I see another headline here, the same paper Monday, January 17, just this week: "$2 An Hour Hike Demanded by Royal City IWA Local."

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of people in this province who'd be happy to be earning $2 an hour, let alone get a $2 an hour raise. I'm not suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that a $2 an hour raise is necessarily too much, but it's too much in relation to what other people are getting. And I think the time has come when the government must take a hand in determining what people are going to get.

AN HON. MEMBER: How about profit?

MR. LeCOURS: I think profit as well. I'll say it point blank. I'm in favour of control of wages, salaries, prices and profits and I don't think that anybody is doing anything but fooling themselves if they say otherwise. They have been telling us in Ottawa now for a couple of years that they're going to put in voluntary guidelines. I say that's a lot of bunk. Who listens to voluntary guidelines? They turn around and ask for $2 an hour and more raises.

AN HON. MEMBER: How about interest?

MR. LeCOURS: Interest rates as well, I agree with that. They must be controlled. If we are going to have social justice, let's have it. Let's do away with all this hypocrisy, all this hypocrisy I said, not democracy. It may be true that the people are worth $7 an hour or $8 an hour. Or it may be true that some people are worth $150 an hour, as some of our professional people get. It may be true that lawyers sometimes are worth $1,000 an hour as they are able to and do charge — and I know of my own experience that is true.

Interjection by an Hon. Member.

MR. LeCOURS: Yes, an hour! But, Mr. Speaker, if these professional people are going to be allowed to do things like that, then we must see to it that the poor people are no longer poor.

Something must be done to guarantee a better salary for those who are working now for a dollar-and-a-half and $2 an hour. I say that the minimum salary must be something in relation to the maximum salary and certainly not be less than 60 per cent of the maximum salary. And I think the government and I call upon my good friend, the Minister of Labour should take some initiative in this regard, to insure that no one works for wages that we might call slave wages. There is plenty in this province to supply the adequate needs of every person in this province.

Let's take our responsibilities as members of government and make sure they get it. Let's not put it all off to someone else, Let's bring in legislation that's going to help make it possible.

I think I said earlier we have one million on welfare and pensions in Canada and six million working poor. Let's see to it that we have an adequate distribution of our great wealth so that we no longer have these seven million people living in poverty in a land of plenty such as we have.

I think it is time, Mr. Speaker, that governments — and I include this government — have as much authority as unions have. I'm going to repeat that. I think it is time that the governments have as much authority as unions have.

At the present time, unions will tell you how many hours they are going to work. They tell you what their wages are going to be, tell you what their fringe benefits are going to be, tell you how many holidays they are going to have. They tell you literally everything they are going to do. They do everything except pay themselves. Then they call upon industry to do the paying.

I call upon Hon. Members opposite, all the members opposite, to join with this government in demanding that something in the way of justice be made available to everyone. I think governments in Canada are afraid to take this matter in hand because they are afraid of what will happen to them at the polls. I call upon the leaders of the other parties to join with our premier, come up with some answers that will make it possible to tell the people we are going to see to it that the people of this province are treated justly.

We must all join in on this determination. We must all join in making available to our people adequate rewards for their labours.

It is a challenge and I am anxious to see if they will accept that challenge and come forward with willingness to undertake to make a study along with members of the government to determine what is necessary and to come up with some results that will mean something.

They spend too much time just making noises that are meaningless instead of trying to suggest something that is going to be helpful.

HON. J.R. CHABOT (Minister of Labour): Where are they today? Where are they today, those people?

MR. LeCOURS: They are probably on the phone to Washington or Ottawa.

AN HON. MEMBER: Olympia, Washington.

MR. LeCOURS: Yes, I mean Olympia, Washington, of course.

About another five minutes, Mr. Speaker, I hadn't noticed the time had gone so quickly. I want to make a few, just a few brief comments now on some of the items which appeared in the throne speech.

I am pleased, and I want to commend the government for its programme for drug, alcohol and cigarette prevention and rehabilitation. I think the radio and television programme has been a tremendous programme. It is one which I myself have advocated in the past.

As a matter of fact, when I opposed the ban on liquour and cigarette advertising last year, I suggested that those who sell liquor and cigarettes should be made to promote a programme of that kind, and I think it would still be a good idea. I think it would be good to have this continue.

I think especially the programme against abuse of alcohol

[ Page 13 ]

was very good over the holiday season. I'm sure it has been very effective. In that regard, I would like to point out again to the Hon. Attorney General that there have been many complaints of late with respect to sniffing of glue and other injurious materials by juveniles in the city of Vancouver.

I would hope that immediate steps will be taken, and by immediate steps I mean an Order in Council this afternoon or tomorrow or Monday, at the very latest. Or a rapid-fire bill through this House to make the sale of Cutex and glue and other items which the children are sniffing illegal as far as selling them to people under 18 or 19 years of age is concerned.

It is illegal to sell liquor to these people. I don't see why it can't be just as illegal to sell these injurious items which in my opinion are just as injurious as marijuana or some of the other things that are banned. I think we should take immediate steps and not hesitate beyond Monday at the very latest in seeing to it that the sale of these items is banned, and banned once and for all.

I want to commend the government for its proposal to build more special-care homes throughout the province — intermediate-care homes, special-care homes, for those who are in need of that kind of treatment. I think it is a great boon to this province and I am sure that people will be looking forward to it and I commend the government for taking the initiative in that regard.

I notice also that the government is planning an Indian court case-worker programme and I commend the Hon. Attorney General for that. I hope there will be some that will be effective right away.

In that regard I would like to draw the Hon. Attorney General's attention to the case of the gentleman who was the victim of an accident recently in the Cariboo country, a man by the name of Fred Quilt who happened to be an Indian.

I have very strong misgivings about what happened in this case. I am very suspicious in view of what our good friend from Dewdney (Mr. Mussallem) told us at the last session with respect to an accident in his area. And in view of my past experience with some members of police forces — and I say some members and I emphasize a small number of them — I am very suspicious of what takes place at times, especially on dark roads at night. I urge the Hon. Attorney General to make every effort to investigate this case very thoroughly and ensure that justice is done.

And in my closing remarks I want to acknowledge the fact that the tourist industry has again grown during the past year. I think that we can expect that it will keep on growing because of the many things that we have to show and the many things that the people are anxious to come and see in our wonderful province.

We can look forward to many tourists in this province and I would like to urge upon the Hon. Minister of Finance (Hon. Mr. Bennett) the possibility of a provincial lottery, much along the lines of that which is held in other provinces. Our tourists would welcome this. It could be run through our liquor stores and other government offices. It could provide several millions of dollars in revenue for some specific cause which could be selected that would be beneficial to the people of this province.

But more than that, Mr. Speaker, and the most important part as far as I am concerned — I hope the Premier will be listening to this part — it will provide our people with a new sense of hope. It's all very well for those in the province who are affluent to ignore this idea of providing a lottery, saying: "Well, we don't want people to gamble." But we know they do gamble, buying tickets on the Irish Sweepstake, on the Manitoba Sweepstake, and whatever sweepstakes there are. They go down to the race tracks, and some of them blow hundreds of dollars a season at the race tracks. We know they are doing that year after year, and they are blowing sometimes their entire paychecks in that way.

On the stockmarkets they are not only blowing it, they are being robbed quite often by manipulators on the stock market. That's another thing I bring to the Hon. Attorney General's attention. I think we should bring an end to this affair of people manipulating the stock market to make it work for them, then taking their money and running, leaving the fellow who buys some stock in good faith hanging high and dry.

I think we should give the people a chance for a bit of hope at least half a dozen times a year. If we had half-a-dozen lotteries a year, a person spends $2 on a ticket and then he sits back and he hopes for the next four or six or eight weeks "I might be a big winner — boy, if I win that what I won't do!"

Let's give him that little bit of hope that he hasn't got now. Let's give him something to look forward to, because that's all he has to look forward to very often. If we can provide him with that little bit of happiness for $2, let's do it, and let's do it right soon, Mr. Speaker.

That's the greatest kind of hope a person can have. If it weren't for hope, we'd all be in despair. At least, I think most of us would be.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, and I'm sorry if I have exceeded what I had planned, I want to say that I am happy to be able to announce the Knight Street bridge is progressing well, because it interests the people of Richmond. This bridge as planned has had about $4 million worth of contracts allocated on it so far. There's about another $10 million to be allocated in the next 18 months or so. By the end of this year it is anticipated the crossing from Vancouver to Mitchell Island will be completed and traffic will be flowing from Mitchell Island to Vancouver and that the swing span will therefore be able to be closed, and that by the fall of 1973 the bridge will be completed and the people of Richmond will no longer have to line up to get to work morning and night.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Shuswap.

MR W.F. JEFCOAT (Shuswap): It almost seems like yesterday that we left this House. I don't know where the time has gone. Faces haven't changed much. Some have changed position in the House, as has already been mentioned.

It is a pleasure to be back again to partake of these sessions and to try and do the things that we have been elected to do.

It is a pleasure for me at this time, and I feel it is a great honour, to be able to second this Speech from the Throne at the beginning of this second century. I am going to stick very closely to my written speech if I may at this time, Mr. Speaker.

It is with a very great deal of pride that I take my place in this assembly this afternoon. I am proud first to be a Canadian, and then to have been asked to second this speech in the second century of British Columbia history.

The first session of the first parliament opened on February 15, 1972. Pardon me, 1872. I may be 100 years out

[ Page 14 ]

but I'm afraid there are others who are further out than that. I find the Liberals are offering their suggestions over there. I notice that they are doing quite a little bit towards unemployment in the province. I see where the leader of the Liberal Party has offered his staff 25 cents for wages for little errands they might do for him. I think he should be credited for this. I see this in the paper today. I think this will do a lot towards helping the labour situation in British Columbia.

We are now entering the third session of the 29th Parliament with 100 years of history and progress on the record. British Columbia has just celebrated its centennial and has with pride and humility paid tribute to the pioneers and those who have given so much for this province over the past years.

Some $12 million was spent last year in honouring the pioneers and the senior citizens and so on of this province. I think this was a great step in the right direction. It did not matter what political stripe or what nationality these people were — anyone that has helped in the forming and well-being of this province should be honoured, and were at the centennial last year.

I think that at this time, as we are entering the second century of this province, I would like to digress just a little bit from the throne speech and go back in the history of man for some period of time.

If you take the last 500 centuries of man, and allow a life span of 6½ years per man, you would find that we have had 800 life spans. The first 650 spans of man's life were lived in caves, and it's only the last four that have measured time. It's only the last two that have used the electric motor — only the last two life spans of man have known and used the electric motor.

Seven out of 10 of the prescriptions that we go down to the drugstore and buy today were unknown 12 years ago. Most of the things we are using today have been developed within the last life span of man. Less than 150 years ago — much less than that — the fastest that man had ever travelled was as fast as a horse could run. Today, man has attained the speed of over 18,000 miles an hour. We have been to the moon and back, and we see much progress in travel.

Ninety per cent of all the scientists that have ever lived in the world are living today. With this background and this knowledge, background and the tools that man has at his disposal, what will the next life span of man bring? Will we use this knowledge and these inventions to improve our way of life, or will it be used for man's destruction? Now, I might maintain that man holds the decision. We can either use the atom for the betterment of the world, a better place to live in, or it can be used for man's destruction.

We have a great responsibility at this time. With the developments that man has made, especially in the latter few years, I think it behoves each one of us to stop and think about this and decide which way we are going

Now, Mr. Speaker, I believe that it is quite fitting at this time to review briefly some of the accomplishments of the last 20 years. This government took office under a very heavy debt burden. The debt was paid off, I believe, in seven years time. As the previous speaker has just related to you, he heard a speech a few years ago where this man was asking for the leadership of the party of this province and wanted to step out and borrow and borrow and borrow and put this province further and further and further in debt. This government, Mr. Speaker, has paid off the debt and has accomplished all the things that are in evidence today. I want to relate to a few of them at this time.

It is through sound management and long-range planning of our natural resources that the economic picture is much different today than what it was 20 years ago.

We have changed from a debt position to a reserve of finances. Great improvements in transportation have been accomplished. Roads, railroads and ferry systems have been greatly expanded. These improvements were necessary in order to create the economic growth that this province had experienced over the last number of years. The long-range hydro-development policies have created employment for thousands of people and are providing the necessary power for the future development of the province — for the mills, for the industry et cetera which will be coming to this province in greater numbers all of the time.

It is only through vision and foresight that this power will be made available. It was only through long-range foresight that these dams et cetera were planned and have been developed to meet the needs of a growing country.

Through long-range planning and sound management policies, this government has been able to provide expanded educational facilities, hospitals, parks, roads and many other things which make for the better way of life, which we enjoy. In addition to the many improvements which have all been paid for, a sound policy of funding has been provided.

I would just like to enumerate a few of these findings. I think it is very, very important. At the beginning, 20 years ago when this government first came to power, they came in under a very heavy debt load. I think the people of this province deserve to know, and I know that they will want to know, and should realise that from a debt position we are now into a funded position.

Perpetual funds have been established as follows, and I'm only going to name a few of them: the First Citizens' Fund of $25 million; the Agricultural Aid to Developing Countries Fund of $5 million; the Physical Fitness and Amateur Sports Fund of $10 million; the Centennial Cultural Fund of $10 million, the Drug, Alcoholic and Cigarette Education Prevention and Rehabilitation Fund of $25 million, and that is only to mention a few — there are others, many others.

Also, the provincial homeowner's grant which has been increased year by year, and last year was $170 to every homeowner living in his own home in this province. This has done much to relieve the high taxes, especially on education and also from other sources that the homeowners are experiencing.

The home acquisition grant has also been of great significance to this province. This grant and mortgage service has not only bolstered the provincial economy through labour and sales of materials, but has helped many people — I think this is perhaps of more importance — it has helped many people to own their own homes and become permanent residents of the province.

Since the introduction of this legislation in 1967, and there have been some changes to it, but since the introduction in 1967, the British Columbia government have provided $105 million in home ownership capital funds. Of course, that includes the $20 million which was put in last year. Additional funds may be added as required.

To date, almost $35 million has been approved for approximately 61,000 housing grants, and $87 million for 23,000 second mortgage loans. Approvals for grants and loans are being made at the rate of approximately $2,600 per month.

I think that Honourable Members sitting here should just stop and think what $2,600 grants and loans is doing to the

[ Page 15 ]

economy of this country as well as helping the housing situation and helping those who wish to own their own homes and become permanent residents of this province. I think this is certainly a great boon to the province and certainly those there should be full credit given to this phase of our operations.

The over-all medical service plan of British Columbia has been very effective. People in low income brackets can and do enjoy the service. The medical service coverage has premiums as low as 50 cents per month to the low income bracket people and the higher premiums are $12.50 a month for those in higher income brackets.

Now, the enrolment in the over-all medical service, plus dependents, totalled 2,159,056 as of March 31, 1971. These persons, plus some under the federal plan, brings the total average to 99 per cent of our residents covered under a prepaid medical plan. Almost 100 per cent of the people in British Columbia are covered under a prepaid medical plan.

I think anyone that knows the costs of going to a hospital, or obtaining doctor's services in the United States or in other countries of the world, should certainly appreciate the benefits both from our medical plan and from our hospital plan. Now, this medical, this over-all medical service plan is financed partially by premiums, partially by federal moneys, and the remainder, including premium subsidies, by the provincial government.

The provincial government also pays the full applicable premiums for eligible persons under the Department of Rehabilitation and Social Improvements as well as indigent persons in government institutions.

Now this government, Mr. Speaker, has endeavoured to meet the needs of people. This has been the prime and foremost objective of this government over a number of years — to meet the needs, the health requirements, the educational requirements, et cetera and the housing requirements, all requirements of the people that live within this province. To make it a better way of life for them.

Improvements in the educational facilities are provided both for the young and for those who need re-training et cetera, adult classes for those that require re-training. Some 767 new classrooms were built in 1971, 94 gymnasiums, and there is a large building programme in schools, hospitals, et cetera for this coming year.

Hospital accommodation is being provided at a greatly accelerated rate. Thirteen major projects were completed in 1971, with a total 772 beds. In addition to these that were completed, another 25 projects are presently under construction with a total of 1,799 beds.

Grants for special care homes and mental health facilities are being made available, and I think that this is very very important for our senior citizens and those who are not able to take care of themselves.

As I said before, it is the aim of this government to take care of all the needy and all of the people of this province. Over 1,000 additional rooms were constructed for senior is citizens in the year 1971. I know of several building programmes and I am sure that there are many that I know nothing about throughout the province contemplated for this coming year. Moneys are made available for these expansions

Well, I'm sure, Mr. Speaker, that this province is in a very enviable position because of its economic standing, because of the long-range planning that has gone into the many, many projects throughout the province.

I'm not going to go into the labour situation, it's been touched on some here today, but I am certain that both management and labour will not want to disrupt the economic prosperity of this province.

Two years ago, we saw many unemployed. The economy was down, there was nothing moving, industry was not progressing at all. The building programme didn't proceed. We do not and we cannot afford to see a repetition of this. And so I am certain that both management and labour being intelligent people, I see no reason why intelligent people cannot sit down at the table and negotiate their problems and come up with a solution that is acceptable to mankind.

Let's not tie up the economy of our province again like we have seen in the past. Let's sit down and iron out our differences and go ahead and make this a better place to live in.

AN HON. MEMBER: You're on your way there.

MR. JEFCOAT: Seconding the Speech from the Throne, I am not going to go into local matters in my area at this time. I'm sure that there will be a great deal of opportunity as these sessions proceed to bring up local matters and I'm going to leave it at that and take advantage in the proceedings of the coming weeks to take up my local problems. But I do consider it a privilege to have been asked to second this first speech, the Speech to the Throne, in the first session of this second century of our province.

Mr. Barrett moves adjournment of the debate.

Motion approved.

MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable the Minister of Mines and Petroleum Resources.

HON. FX RICHTER (Minister of Mines and Petroleum Resources and Minister of Commercial Transport): Mr. Speaker, I wish to file the Annual report of the Minister of Mines and Petroleum ending December 31, 1970.

Hon. Mr. Bennett moves adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The House adjourned at 4:34 p.m.