The committee met at 2:30 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

Deliberations

B. D’Eith (Chair): Hi, everybody. First, we’re going to go in camera.

If I could please have a motion to go in camera.

D. Clovechok (Deputy Chair): So moved.

Motion approved.

The committee continued in camera from 2:30 p.m. to 2:56 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

Committee Report to the House

STATUTORY OFFICERS INTERIM REPORT

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay, we are back in session. We have a motion.

Rich, I think Kate is going to put the motion up. Go ahead.

R. Coleman: I move that the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services approve and adopt the report entitled Interim Report on Statutory Offices as presented/amended today, and further that the committee authorize the Chair and Deputy Chair to work with the committee staff to finalize any minor editorial changes to complete the supporting text.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Can I just clarify? Is it as amended? I believe that’s what we wanted to say.

R. Coleman: It doesn’t say “as amended” on the screen.

B. D’Eith (Chair): It was, I think, a choice between…. There we go. Would you mind now to amend it? Is that all right, Member?

R. Coleman: I can read it again.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Sure. Why don’t we just do that, so we’re absolutely clear.

R. Coleman: I move:

[That the Committee approve and adopt the report entitled Interim Report on Statutory Offices as amended today and further, that the Committee authorize the Chair and Deputy Chair to work with Committee staff to finalize any minor editorial changes to complete the supporting text.]

Motion approved.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much.

The second motion. Donna, please go ahead.

D. Barnett: I move:

[That the Chair of the Committee deposit a copy of the report entitled Interim Report on Statutory Offices with the Office of the Clerk; and further, that upon resumption of the sittings of the House, or at the next following session, the Chair shall present the Report to the Legislative Assembly at the earliest available opportunity.]

Motion approved.

[3:00 p.m.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Members. Fantastic.

Next up…. Is the Finance Minister in the queue? Is she here? There she is.

Hello, Minister.

All right. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bob D’Eith. I’m the MLA for Maple Ridge–Mission and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services, a committee of the Legislative Assembly that includes MLAs from the government and opposition parties. I’d like to welcome everyone listening and participating in this meeting.

I’d also like to acknowledge that I’m joining this meeting from the traditional territories of the Katzie and Kwantlen First Nations and that members are all over the province in their traditional territories. I would like to acknowledge all of the members in their territories as well. Thank you for that.

We’re beginning today’s meeting with a presentation from the Hon. Carole James, the Minister of Finance, on the Budget 2021 consultation paper.

Minister, thank you for making the time to join us today.

Hon. C. James: Thank you. It’s great to be here. I’ll kick off now.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Absolutely.

Presentation by Minister of Finance

Hon. C. James: Great, thank you. I know they’re putting a slide deck up for all of us.

First of all, just to say thank you to all of you for once again doing the budget consultation process around the province virtually. It’s an interesting time that all of us are in, but it really is such a critical piece, and I wanted to make sure that I express my appreciation to all of you for the time and energy in putting this in.

We can put up the consultation timeline, Susan. Great.

Hard to believe. We’re going to begin with the timeline for Budget 2021-22, but I just want to take a moment to recognize that it’s only been four months since we actually tabled the budget in the Legislature for 2021. I’m sure for all of us, it feels like a lifetime ago when you think back to that time period. We certainly know that every part of our province looks different than it did when that budget was tabled back in February.

When you think of the impacts that have happened for families, when you think of people’s daily lives and when you think of the working conditions or lack of work that people have had — financial hardship for businesses, for individuals, for families — there is no question that the world is a different place. I think “unprecedented” is not too strong a word to use for the kind of example of the situation we’re in.

Huge challenges ahead. There is no question about that. I’m sure we can talk a little bit about that as we look at coming now into restart and then moving into recovery.

When I think back to the budget in February and the values and the principles we put in place for that budget, it is a reminder that some things, in fact, don’t change. Some things are just as important now as they were when the budget was tabled in February. I think about the priorities that we set for the budget. Those priorities, of course, were affordability and investing in people, they were making sure that services were there that people rely on, and they were making sure that we build a long-term sustainable economy in every part of British Columbia that everyone can take part in.

Although those were the values and principles for the last three budgets, I have to say now that COVID has made those even more important. We have seen how people rely on services when they need them and that they need to be there. We’ve seen how important it is that we have a sustainable economy that can weather outside factors and storms. And certainly, we’ve seen affordability for families. for businesses, for entrepreneurs…. We know the pressure that people are facing. We know the challenges they have ahead of them.

I think your work as a committee is more critical than ever, and this consultation process that you’re about to embark on virtually is just as critical as it’s ever been — in fact, more critical, from my perspective, to Budget 2021. I want to say thank you, as well, to the committee for shifting your consultation timelines again this year so that you’re looking at doing the timeline of the consultation over the spring.

[3:05 p.m.]

That certainly, as you can see from the slide, gives more opportunity to be able to review the input that’s come in, to be able to give value to the public who are presenting to you. I want to say once again how much I appreciate the opportunity there.

Can we move to the next slide, Susan?

I thought I’d begin with a quick overview, a very fast overview of our B.C. COVID-19 action plan. I want to frame this by saying thank you to all the members on the committee. This was something, a rare opportunity for us to come together in the Legislature at a very, very difficult time — when we were looking at the state of emergency, when we were facing challenges, when families and businesses were facing challenges.

I think it was really quite an extraordinary day and quite extraordinary work across the Legislature, across party lines, where people came together and said: “We need to make sure that we put dollars aside.” Yes, that we have accountability mechanisms in place but that we also recognize how important it is to put those supports in place for people in all of our communities, regardless of which side of the Legislature we’re sitting on.

I want to say how much I appreciated the all-party support for this $5 billion.

Then I also want to talk about the principles that we used for the $5 billion and that we’re continuing to use for the $5 billion. The first one was that the federal government really should be leading the way — consistency across the country, looking at the needs that were there — and that our provincial programs should fill in gaps and provide the opportunity to fill in gaps to get the best bang for our buck, to be able to utilize people’s dollars the best way we can and to support families and businesses the best way we can.

We set three priorities to be able to do that.

The first one, of course, was health and safety. Health and safety of British Columbians comes first, and that was the first draw on those $5 billion.

The second one was immediate supports for individuals and businesses — again, where there were gaps, where could we step in, where could we provide services and supports.

Then the third piece was economic recovery. Some people might wonder why we focused on economic recovery this early — when we were in the middle of COVID, when we were facing challenges. We once again wanted to make sure that people knew that it was a priority. As Bonnie Henry says so well: “This is for now; this is not forever.” We know that economic recovery will be coming, and we wanted to show people that we were serious by putting that $1.5 billion aside for economic recovery.

You can see the divisions on the slide of where the dollars are hitting. Those dollars would include our $1,000 tax-free emergency benefit for workers. Just to give an update to the committee, today’s numbers, we have had 533,764 applications approved. Over 500,000 of those have gone out the door, and money has been paid. It’s been exceptional, the number of people who have really seen this as a great support.

We have a rental subsidy, as you probably know, through B.C. Housing of up to $500 which provides support for renters with dependents, and it’s paid directly to landlords. And $300 a month for three months for people on income assistance or disability.

We’ve taken steps to support B.C. businesses in a number of different ways, including deferring a number of tax payments until the end of September. That includes everything from the employer health tax to the PST to the hotel tax to the carbon tax, etc. We also lowered — and this is a cut, not a deferral — property taxes for businesses by about, on average, 25 percent. That’s, as I said, an actual cut; that’s not a deferral. That provides support.

We partnered up with the federal government on their rent support, their emergency commercial rent assistance program, which helps commercial businesses. You may have heard our announcement today. We’re providing more encouragement for businesses to apply for this program, because the tenant can’t apply. The landlord has to apply.

We’re putting in place a no-eviction order today so that we can encourage businesses and landlords who have not been interested in applying to apply. That program, that eviction order will apply to businesses that would fit the criteria for the federal program.

I think, again, it just shows the kind of importance of getting the work out there and making sure those programs were in place. As I said, it’s really a credit to everybody that we’ve been able to move on these programs.

[3:10 p.m.]

Next slide, Susan.

Just to remind us, I think we’ve spent a lot of time focusing, for good reason, in the last few months on the COVID-19 action plan and supports related to COVID. But I think as you go out to do the budget consultation that it’s important, as well, to remember there are programs and services that are provided in this budget this year, ’20-21, that will also help families and also help businesses and also help the economy of British Columbia. Those haven’t changed. They continue as programs in the budget.

I just want to run through a few of those to remind us. It’s easy to forget that budget, even though it was only a few months ago.

This slide starts with investing in children and families. Starting October 1 of this year, nearly 300,000 families will benefit from the new child opportunity benefit, which is a tax-free payment for families with children who are 18 years and younger. The previous program put in place by the federal government went up to age six, but all of us know that your costs don’t end when your child turns seven. They continue to have costs, so we have added provincial dollars to be able to expand the program up to age 18. That’s going to make a huge difference to families and probably couldn’t come at a better time, when we’re talking about the struggles that people are facing.

Next slide: health care. We made a major investment in Budget ’20-21 in the area of health care, as you can see — more than $69 billion over the plan. That includes $1 billion over the three-year cycle from Budget 2020, again to deal with the pressures in the health care system.

Many of you will have seen some of those announcements over the last while — everything from primary care support to urgent emergency care centres; of course, eliminating medical service premiums; increased access to PharmaCare. Again, this foundation and the supports that we’ve put in will provide support as we come out of the COVID-19 challenges, as we move into restart and then recovery. Having a good foundation like this is going to make a big difference to be able to respond to care.

You will have heard the minister and the Premier also announce that we’re looking at supports, additional dollars to go in for surgeries, elective surgeries that were cancelled during the COVID-19 pandemic. Those additional dollars will go in to provide support to get those surgeries back in place, because although they’re called elective, it’s a technical…. When you’re waiting for a hip replacement or a knee replacement or something critical, that’s just as critical as other surgeries.

Those are going to be moved along and many people…. I have talked to people in my own community who already received their call to say that their surgery is back on and that they’ve got a date. I know that is occurring, as well, because of the investments that were made.

Next slide: housing. I think each of these investments really highlight the pressures that we have seen during COVID, as well, for people. We know housing affordability continues to be a great pressure for families, for indivi­duals, for people across our province. Many households, of course, have taken a huge financial hit when it comes to COVID.

It makes it critical for us to continue on our progress on our ten-year plan to invest $7 billion to build more than 100,000 homes. That’s in partnership with the private sector, the not-for-profit sector. We have had a number of wonderful examples where municipalities have come forward with land. We have been able to partner with them and put housing in place. Certainly, the work we have done around the most vulnerable, most recently in Victoria and Vancouver, has shown how critical it is to move on this piece, and these investments are already in the budget.

Next slide. Education, of course, is front and centre today, as students head back to school. We want to express our appreciation to all of the staff — teachers, support staff, principals, others, administration — who really put a lot of effort into making sure that it is a safe place for those who choose for their kids to go back to school for the month of June.

Again, I think it’s important to recognize that it is a priority, as well, in Budget 2021. We have the highest K-12 operating funding in B.C.’s history in this budget. At the same time, we’re also putting dollars into capital because we know how important it is to make sure that we recognize the safety and security of our students and our staff by seismically upgrading schools, by building and repairing new schools. Those investments really will benefit our kids today as they come back to the classroom but also future generations and for years to come.

[3:15 p.m.]

Next slide. This speaks to a piece that I think…. I’m sure many of you have felt this over the time of the pande­mic, that we really have seen a recognition of work being done across our province. Child care is one of those pieces where we have seen real recognition for how critical child care is — not simply for the child, not simply for the family but in fact for the economy — in making sure that we can get people back to work. That doesn’t happen unless we have child care, unless we’re able to put those supports in place. It helps women get back into the workforce, which again is going to be critical.

The investments in child care are, as I said, an investment in the economy and an investment in children and families. We also made some investments during COVID-19 to make sure that child care centres would still be there after the pandemic and as we moved into restart and recovery. We put an investment in place for child care centres so that they could receive funding even while they were closed, so that they were there to help us back in the restart and the recovery.

We also started a child care centre matching program to be able to help essential service workers who really needed the child care during that time period — again, a major investment that will give us a good, strong foundation as we move back into restart and recovery.

Next slide. There’s been a lot of talk about infrastructure, particularly as a recovery tool. Many of you will have heard, I’m sure, from businesses or economists or others who talk about the importance of capital. As we were going into Budget ’20-21, as I said on budget day, we have put in a major investment in capital. In fact, it’s one of the largest investments in capital in our province’s history when it comes to building, and you can see from the division up on the slide — when it comes to building housing, when it comes to building schools, post-secondary education, health care, new hospitals, transportation.

We knew there was going to be a moderation of the economy across the country. It was expected pre-COVID that we would see a moderation. So putting these investments in, to be able to build British Columbia and provide jobs in every corner of our province, was a critical piece and a critical priority for us. We know that putting this infrastructure in place, making sure we’re doing that job creation work, making sure we’re providing support for people in every corner of British Columbia and building British Columbia’s future, now and into the future, is a very critical piece that will do us well when it comes to restart and recovery.

Post-secondary training and education. This is one those…. I call it basics, when you’re looking at the basics that are critical for a province to have as part of our economy. We know this is vital infrastructure that connects people with jobs, with services, that helps communities as well. In education, we’ve built on the investments we’ve made in education in each of the three budgets.

You will remember that we started off by making sure that we had free tuition for adult basic education and English language learning. We eliminated interest on B.C. student loans. We waived tuition for former youth in care to be able to attend university and college. Then we did another investment to build on that in Budget 2020 by introducing the new B.C. access grants.

This is an investment that was already built into the budget in February, and it will mean that this fall 40,000 students at university and at college can receive upfront costs for their education, something that’s been called for by students for a very long period of time. This needs-based grant will help ensure that low- and modest-income families are able to get the support they need, that students are able to get the support they need up to $4,000, to be able to help with the cost of programs that lead to a degree, a diploma or a certificate.

We’ve also expanded the criteria so that people aren’t receiving the support simply because they’re getting a degree. They’re also able to get it through a certificate and a diploma, which again will help with the support for our health care system, for our education system, for our child care system. It means that more students will be able to get that support.

[3:20 p.m.]

Although we’ve still got work to do on the economic recovery side, I am certain that education will be a key when we’re looking ahead at the supports that need to be there.

Then just to give you a really quick synopsis of the work we’re doing on economic recovery, as I mentioned, $1.5 billion put aside. Those dollars have not been allocated at this stage. We’re just beginning the consultation discussion. We wanted to see the restart begin to see where the pressure points are.

I think all of you know that COVID has really impacted different sectors in different ways, has impacted different ages in different ways. This really is a huge impact on young people 18 to 24, who have really been hard hit by the service industry challenges — by tourism, restaurants and bars. That means that as we look at economic recovery, we really will need to look at sectors. We’ll need to look at different groups and organizations. We’ll need to look at areas and demographics to make sure we’re really targeting the areas that will really need the support as we move ahead.

From that perspective, it’s a very different kind of economic hit than you’ve seen in previous kinds of challenges — in the 2008 time period, where it was really financial institutions, for example, and real estate. This is something…. This pandemic has really hit every sector across our province. It’s really hit every family and every demographic, some harder than others. That discussion around economic recovery will continue, as we make a determination around where those dollars will go.

Again, I’m really pleased to help to kick off your consultation and to be able to express my appreciation to all of you. I would encourage the public to read the document and to be able to take part. I know you’ll be out there telling people, as well, that yes, there are hearings that will be done online, but people also have a chance to fill out the survey to be able to engage. I can’t think of a more important time to make sure that we’re hearing from the public on the kinds of areas they think really need to be a focus.

Thank you to all of you. I’m looking forward to the final document as it comes in, and I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Chair.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you so much, Minister. I really appreciate your comments. It’s nice to see the review, to see some check marks there from past Finance Committee recommendations. It’s always great for the all-party committee to be able to see those kinds of check marks, and I know the public likes that as well.

I also wanted to echo your thanks to the Clerk’s office. The amount of work and effort that’s gone into trying to create these online public consultations has been enormous, and opening up the Legislature. I’d like to, on behalf of the committee, thank everyone in the Clerk’s office for all the work they’ve been doing.

I see claps from all the members there. Thank you so much for that.

I also wanted to thank you for all your work during this pandemic. It’s absolutely unprecedented. As you mentioned, it was also very non-partisan, in terms of everyone…. Really, it was all hands on deck. It has been all hands on deck. It’s been great to have you shepherd us through this, from a financial point of view. Thank you very much for the report.

With that, if there were any questions from members to the Finance Minister….

All right. Well, seeing none, I just want to mention….

D. Barnett: Just a minute.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Ah, there was one.

Donna, go ahead.

D. Barnett: Maybe this is not the time or the place. This is my first experience on the Finance Committee. But will we see a revenue side? Is there a revenue side that will be discussed now, or will that be done in the House?

Hon. C. James: Thanks, Donna.

I’ll just jump in on that question, if that’s okay, Chair.

The next update on the budget and the situation in the province, both revenue and expenses and growth projections, will come in the first quarterly report in September. I think it’s hard for all of us to believe, but we’re only two months into this fiscal year. Lots of data arrives a few months behind. We’re just starting to get the employment numbers. We will need to see growth projections in a number of different sectors. That information will come in over the summertime.

The first quarterly report will be the first official read of where we are economically. That, as I said, will come kind of mid-September and give us a good read of the kind of situation we’re in.

[3:25 p.m.]

People have asked about the spending that we’re doing around the pandemic. That’s still within the $5 billion. As I mentioned, we haven’t spent the $1.5 billion yet. That’s still sitting aside. We’ll be also doing a review of the existing programs that we’ve put in place to see whether they need extensions, to see whether there are other areas that need to be looked at. That’s still to come as well.

The first report is coming in September for sure.

D. Barnett: Thank you.

Hon. C. James: Thanks, Donna.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Were there any other questions from members?

Mitzi, go ahead.

M. Dean: Thank you so much, Minister James. I know there’s so much work going on behind the scenes to help us create a good response and the economic recovery as well.

I’m interested in the auditing of the extra package of funding. I know there’s been some discussion with the…. I’m just wondering what the situation is at the moment with the Office of the Auditor General and how the extra $5 billion is going to be audited and just what kind of conversations you’ve had with the office about that.

Hon. C. James: The $5 billion is a vote within the Legislature, so I think it’s important to note that there’s accountability built around those dollars. I think that is part of all of us agreeing together in the Legislature on this. There will be estimates on that $5 billion and discussion and questions, as there are with all estimates. That is the Finance Minister’s vote, so that will be a piece coming forward for discussion in the Legislature.

On auditing, we’re looking at post-spending, because right now many of these dollars, including the $1.5 billion, have not been spent yet, have not been allocated yet. It’s early going, when you’re having discussions about auditing, to make a determination on things that still have yet to come and where the demand still is there for the program. I think the $1,000 benefit was a really good example. I don’t think any of us could have imagined that a few weeks in, you would see the application process up to 500,000 individuals.

I think those kinds of programs will play themselves out. They will end at a certain date, depending on the program and the determination. Then I expect, as I said, there will be, obviously, full accounting for each of the programs — where the spending went, how many people took part in them, what the process was for that and full accounting in the Legislature as well.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Doug, go ahead.

D. Clovechok (Deputy Chair): Thank you, Bob, and thank you, Minister. I just want to just say thank you for all your efforts and your energy that you’ve put in. It’s been some crazy times around this province.

I’m just curious. Out of the money that has not been spent, as you’ve made mention, are there any specific dollars that are going to be focused on tourism? That is, without question, one of the hardest-hit industries. We really haven’t seen a lot of that yet. I’m wondering where that might sit.

Hon. C. James: Thanks, Doug. No question. I’m a Victoria MLA. So I see it every day in my community. I see the impact every day in my community, whether it’s small businesses, whether it’s the little mom-and-pop operator that will really be impacted over this next year.

Part of the discussion that we’re looking at and part of the discussion that ministers are doing right now is meeting with their individual sectors. We know we’ll have to take a sector approach, in some cases, to recovery. Each of the ministers is going out and engaging their sector, bringing forward those ideas. We’re just in that gathering process right now.

I know in tourism, a number of the organizations are getting together to look at putting together some ideas. Individual tourism organizations and local communities have already submitted some information. Those will come up through the ministers. We’ll have an opportunity for the public to have a say, and then cabinet, obviously, will make the final decision.

Yes, certainly, tourism, arts and culture…. Organizations that obviously can’t, because of numbers, get together in the same kind of way are coming up with incredible creativity. I have to say it’s one of the things that I’ve been so amazed at. Perhaps not amazed, because I know British Columbians are incredible.

[3:30 p.m.]

I’m so pleased to see the creativity and the working together that people did going into COVID-19, to be able to fight the pandemic and to be able to pull together and support each other. I’m confident that same energy and that same caring for each other and that same working together in community will be needed to get us through and into economic recovery as well.

Yes, we are looking at a sector-by-sector approach. Tourism, arts and culture are kind of near the top of the list for very hard impacted sectors.

D. Clovechok (Deputy Chair): Thank you. That’s good to hear. Thank you very much.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Members, are there any other questions at all?

D. Barnett: I just have one question. Maybe I missed something. In the $5 billion, $2.8 billion is going for services and support, and $1.5 billion is going for economic recovery. Where is the balance designated for, or is that not…?

Hon. C. James: There’s $1.5 billion, as well, for economic recovery in there. If you look at the division, some things are counted in here. Things, just to give you a couple of examples, that aren’t included in the $5 billion would be tax deferrals, because they’re not a cost to government. It’s a deferral of the payment. Some of those supports and programs I mentioned that are there for businesses get included as accounting. They’ll come back when the deferral ends, and those payments come back to government.

That’s why the numbers…. You’ll see some things included and some things not included. It depends on the accounting treatment of those dollars that come in.

D. Barnett: I’m talking…. I’m sorry. Maybe I missaid it. But in the $5 billion, $2.8 billion is for services and supports, $1.5 billion is for economic growth, but there is a gap in there. Are you saying that that is what is there for the taxes that will be deferred?

Hon. C. James: No, because taxes don’t get counted.

D. Barnett: Okay. Between the $2.8 billion and the $1.5 billion, the funds that are not there to balance it to $5 billion — what are those funds designated for?

Hon. C. James: It’s $2.8 billion for services and support, $2.2 billion for businesses.

D. Barnett: Okay. You were mentioning $1.5 billion, so I’m confused.

Hon. C. James: The $1.5 billion is for economic recovery. It’s included in that $2.8 billion and $2.2 billion. So the $2.2 billion includes the $1.5 billion, Donna. Does that help?

D. Barnett: Okay, thank you.

Hon. C. James: It’s not double-counted. I guess that’s what I’m saying to you.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Good. Thanks for the clarification, Minister.

Any other questions at all? I don’t see any.

Once again, thank you, Minister James, for your work on this, and thanks for your presentation. We really appreciate the direction moving forward.

While we do these public hearings, we’ll be focusing, really, on two things. One is: what has the pandemic meant for individuals in different sectors? Hopefully, we’ll be able to help ministers and yourself get some more information around the province on that. Secondly, our general consultations. Hopefully, we’ll be able to balance those two things, as you’ve asked us to do. We really appreciate the opportunity to be able to do that.

Of course, once again, thanks to the Clerk’s office for all your hard work.

To people who are listening, if you want to participate in the committee, we are going into public consultations now. You can participate in writing, in audio or in video. You can do that. There is a website you can go to, which is bcleg.ca/fgsbudget. You can also do a survey on there. So there are a number of ways to interface with this committee.

Those consultations will end on June 26 at 5 p.m. Pacific Time. We’d encourage all of the public, please, to partici­pate.

We will be going into public consultations over the next three weeks now. Part of that…. This is a very new thing. This is the first time that we’ve done this by Zoom meeting. I’ve been told that the whole country is looking at us, because this is unprecedented, in many ways.

Once again I wanted to thank all the members for their flexibility in schedules and being able to make this all work — and of course, the Clerk’s office and Hansard, who have been heroic in all of this to try to make it all work. Thanks, again.

Was there anything else, Susan, from the Clerk’s office at all before we recess?

S. Sourial (Clerk Assistant, Committees and Interparliamentary Relations): No, Mr. Chair. We’ll be resuming at four o’clock with our first panel.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, again, Minister.

Thanks to all the committee members.

We’ll be starting again at four o’clock. I’d like to call a recess until then.

The committee recessed from 3:35 p.m. to 4:01 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Hi, everyone. We’re back with the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services. I wanted to welcome everyone to our first public hearing for the Budget 2021 consultation.

This committee typically visits communities around the province to hear from British Columbians about their priorities for the next provincial budget. However, due to COVID-19, the pandemic, all public hearings are being held by video conference this year.

Our consultation is based on the Minister of Finance budget consultation paper, which anyone who is listening can get at bcleg.ca/fgsbudget. You can get that. She just presented that at three o’clock today.

We also invite British Columbians to participate by providing a written submission or filling out an online survey. The details are also on the website at bcleg.ca/fgsbudget. The deadline for public submissions is 5 p.m. on Friday, June 26, 2020.

We will, of course, carefully consider all input made and make recommendations to the Legislative Assembly on what should be included in Budget 2021. The committee intends to release their report sometime in August.

As far as meeting formats, in addition to holding meetings by video teleconference this year, we have also made some changes to the meeting format in order to make this work. Presenters have been organized into small panels based on theme. We’ll be kicking things off today with general presentations on a wide range of topics.

Each presenter has five minutes for their presentation, so we would kindly ask that presenters please respect this time limit. Following all the presentations from the panel, there will be time for questions from committee members. At that time, I’d ask committee members to raise their hand to indicate they have a question, and I will start a speakers list.

All audio from our meetings is broadcast live on our website, and a complete transcript will also be posted.

It’s very important for people who are listening, because they can’t see us, to know who is on the committee. So if I could, I’ll go around. We’ll start with Donna.

Did you want to introduce yourself, please.

D. Barnett: Yes, Donna Barnett, MLA for Cariboo-Chilcotin, opposition critic for Rural Development.

R. Coleman: Rich Coleman, the MLA for Langley East.

D. Clovechok (Deputy Chair): Hi, I’m Doug Clove­chok. I’m the MLA for Columbia River–Revelstoke. I’m the Tourism, Arts and Culture critic and everything Columbia — Columbia Basin Trust, Columbia River treaty and Columbia Power Corp. — and the Deputy Chair, following Bob in his footsteps.

Welcome.

N. Simons: I’m Nicholas Simons, the MLA for Powell River–Sunshine Coast.

R. Leonard: I am Ronna-Rae Leonard, and I am the MLA for Courtenay-Comox.

M. Dean: Hi, I’m Mitzi Dean. I’m the MLA for Esquimalt-Metchosin and Parliamentary Secretary for Gender Equity.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Once again, I’m Bob D’Eith, the MLA for Maple Ridge–Mission and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

Assisting us today are Susan Sourial, Stephanie Raymond and Karan Riarh from the Parliamentary Committees Office and Mike Baer and Dwight Schmidt from Hansard Services. Thank you very much.

[4:05 p.m.]

Our first presenters. Let me just get the list up. Today we have Bridgitte Anderson from Greater Vancouver Board of Trade, Matt Pitcairn from Richmond Chamber of Commerce and Anita Huberman from Surrey Board of Trade.

Bridgitte Anderson, you’re up first. If we could ask you to present, that would be wonderful.

Budget Consultation Presentations
Panel 1 – General

GREATER VANCOUVER BOARD OF TRADE

B. Anderson: Thank you very much, and good afternoon to everybody.

My name is Bridgitte Anderson. As mentioned, I’m the president and CEO of the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this process.

While this committee is focused on the 2021 budget, in our current circumstances, it really does feel like that is years away. Our most recent survey reported nearly 80 percent of businesses have seen sales decline, and more than half have laid off employees. These are extraordinary times, and I’ve chosen to focus my remarks on near-term principles that will guide our economy through recovery and set the groundwork for the difficult road ahead.

First, in order for the economy to recover, we must avoid circumstances that would lead to significant outbreaks that would overwhelm our health system. That will require making the necessary advancements in public health, including testing capacity, infrastructure and other measures to ensure our resilience, the safety of all citizens and to support the viability of businesses and the economy if a second wave were to come.

Proactive health measures were able to ensure we fared significantly better than other jurisdictions and remained a more open economy. However, the economic impacts have been severe. The greater Vancouver region has been the seventh-hardest hit in this country in terms of lost employment.

When it comes to government programming, we encourage the government to continue to work with stakeholders to review and revise programming to ensure it is effective and as helpful as possible. Particularly, we have heard from our members that only a very few expect to qualify and apply to the Canada emergency commercial rent assistance program. We recently found that only 16 percent of businesses paying rent expect to qualify, and only 40 percent of those who qualify expect their landlord to apply.

Primarily, federal programs have helped bridge the gap and remain critical for business survival. The B.C. government has earmarked $1½ billion for recovery. There may be a need for an enhanced provincial role, as 43 percent of businesses expect they will require significant financial support or incentives beyond those already announced in order to continue operating, especially as we come towards a potential deferral cliff.

In getting people back to work, confidence will be key. We recently found in a survey that only one in four feel well prepared to restart and able to operate profitably. As we all know, the province lost 400,000 jobs in two months alone, and 124,000 of those jobs were 15- to 24-year-olds. These individuals are at a critical stage in their lives and will need additional support in training to find jobs.

As a result of COVID-19, parents will need flexible options to accommodate the new realities and new child care needs as people and children are told to not to come to work or school if they are sick.

The province and the private sector have important transportation infrastructure projects lined up, and it’s critical that these move forward. They will likely need to accelerate economically focused infrastructure such as the Massey crossing, which I’m sure my colleague from Richmond will mention.

The need to continue and enhance public projects is because private projects in the next 24 months are expected to slow down. In a recent survey of our members, between 32 and 40 percent have had capital projects, contracts, tenders either cancelled or deferred.

Another recent GVBOT survey identified that 36 percent of respondents plan to increase the use of their car or car ownership because of COVID-19. These findings underscore the region’s challenge of how to restart the economy without moving backward on congestion and emissions while, at the same time, maintaining health and safety measures.

In order to have a more equal and prosperous future, we will increasingly rely on technology and innovation. We encourage measures to support private investment in digital infrastructure that enhances the connectivity of our province.

We have seen how important decisions like Minister Eby’s recent announcement to support restaurants expand patios act as a lifeline. We believe that the government should institute a formal process where businesses and associations could propose regulatory changes to support business. This could be an extension of the economic recovery task force or a separate group focused on recommendations to remove regulatory burden and red tape.

In addition to looking at regulation and policy changes that affect businesses, the government should ensure that it does not implement policies that will make it more difficult for businesses to operate or bring workers back.

[4:10 p.m.]

In recent years and prior to the pandemic, the B.C. government raised business taxes more than a dozen times. The cumulative impact of taxes layering on businesses from multiple levels of government stifles economic growth of small and large job creators in B.C. And today the minimum wage increases. Given the staggering job losses and the substantial drop in revenues for most businesses, this change will make it more difficult for businesses and workers at this time.

With an eye towards competitiveness, strategic investment and spending, government spending should be strategic, addressing the damage caused by COVID and the current challenges, like climate change, with an eye to the future.

Governments have taken unprecedented fiscal and monetary actions for people and businesses during these challenging times. Fortunately, we were in a healthy fiscal situation. While revenues will be hit hard for some years and British Columbians and businesses will require additional support, we must ensure that new investments are laser focused, provide good value for money and make our province more productive.

With provincial unemployment at 11.5 percent, it is critical that the province use this opportunity to invest in its workforce and prepare for the future. The final report of the province’s emerging economy task force highlighted the importance of building the highly skilled and adaptable workforce which will help B.C. recover from the economic downturn, enhance productivity and navigate global trends and technological advancements.

While the road ahead is long and difficult, I believe we can work together to ensure greater Vancouver and the province have a long and prosperous future.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide remarks. I welcome any questions you may have.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much. Just so you realize what we’re doing, Bridgitte, we’re going to go through all three and then come back, because there is sort of a grouping of people here.

Next up is Matt. Would you mind going ahead?

RICHMOND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

M. Pitcairn: Thank you, everybody. Matt Pitcairn, CEO of the Richmond Chamber of Commerce. Thank you very much to the committee for this opportunity. I miss our previous meetings in the hotel just down the street from my office, but it’s great to be able to connect in this new virtual, crazy world we’re living in.

I have to echo and support many of the comments from my colleague from the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. Those are absolutely some concerning trends that we’re seeing here in Richmond with our members. So I’m not going to mention the same points but definitely echo the concerns and trends that are being seen to our neighbours from the north, and I’m sure my colleague to the south is seeing those same concerning trends in her community as well.

One of our biggest concerns we’re hearing from members is around this rent relief program. We’re pleased to see some progress in the announcements made by the province today, but there’s definitely going to be a need for longer-term financial support to get businesses up and running. It’s going to be crucial to get our economy started.

For my presentation today, I’m going to focus on some key issues that are very important here in Richmond. I’ll get started with my formal remarks. Everyone is talking about the new normal, what it means for us as individuals and for our workplaces. Perhaps this is a prime opportunity to make the kind of bold changes that will improve life and our economy for decades to come.

Here are some key priorities that we would like to see the province consider.

No. 1, the George Massey crossing. The George Massey Tunnel replacement crossing is a critical provincial project that must be prioritized and built expeditiously as a means of stimulating economic recovery.

Just last week the B.C. chamber unanimously passed a policy that was submitted by the Vancouver and Surrey boards of trade as well as the Delta and Richmond chambers of commerce. This policy was calling on immediate action. The option chosen for the crossing must deliver the most value for taxpayers’ money. This choice should be based on a rigorous business case demonstrating cost certainty and expediency and have the least impact on the river. We believe a bridge is the most effective option to address these concerns in the timeliest and cost-effective manner possible.

The second area I’d like to focus on is YVR. YVR airport is a crucial gateway and economic engine for the region and our province. Prior to the pandemic, YVR’s operations facilitated $20.2 billion in total economic output, $10.4 billion in total gross domestic product and $1.4 billion in total government revenues here in B.C.

Aging provincial infrastructure such as the Moray swing bridge is urgently in need of replacement. The bridge does not meet seismic safety standards and is unreliable, breaking down and cutting off a vital connection point between YVR and Highways 99 and 91 that accounts for around 25 percent of total vehicle volumes to and from Sea Island.

The third point I’d like to touch is the Richmond Hospital. Richmond urgently needs a new acute care tower, as the number of acute care beds will soon be insufficient to meet the demands of Richmond’s growing and aging population. Unfortunately, this is especially relevant during this current global pandemic.

[4:15 p.m.]

The original hospital tower is seismically unstable and at risk of collapse, even in a moderate earthquake. While we recognize that the acute care tower project is progressing, I can’t emphasize strongly enough how urgent it is for Richmond to have a new acute care tower.

Our third focus is on retailers. Our retailers need support in the form of direct financial funding or refundable tax credits to meet the new and emerging costs related to COVID-19. Our retail businesses are calling for support to purchase PPE, to offset labour costs associated with lineup control and cleaning, sanitizing supplies, and the new signage costs to help with safety communications. One suggestion we’ve heard from the retail community to offset these costs is for government to more aggressively collect taxes from foreign e-commerce shippers and use these previously lost revenues to fund these additional supports.

Lastly, we’d like to see the province focus on preserving our limited and depleting industrial stock. We’re at an all-time low of 1.4 percent, and we believe that the province needs to focus on protecting and enhancing these lands to grow our economy and our job base.

My last point is that we ask the province to support post-secondary institutions as they accelerate the development of micro-credentials and other high-impact approaches. This supports displaced workers who need retraining to participate in the post-pandemic workforce.

In closing, as we begin to emerge from this initial lockdown period, the world is going to look very different. Businesses from small to large are preparing for the new normal and the challenges ahead. Uncertainty is the adversary of any business, and we are absolutely living in a time of great uncertainty. I hope that the lessons learned in the past few months become firm: move quickly, seek input from key stakeholders, fix problems as you go and put people first. We must all ensure that the new normal is a better version than the old normal. Thank you very much.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thank you very much for the presentation.

Anita, do you want to go ahead?

SURREY BOARD OF TRADE

A. Huberman: Good afternoon. I’m Anita Huberman, CEO of the Surrey Board of Trade. We are Surrey’s city-building business organization where we support business and also attract business.

COVID-19 has presented financial impacts and challenges to all government budgets. A budget in normal times is a forecast of the measures that will be presented in the year to come. Right now, we are in a period of uncertainty as to what might happen next month or in three months. Success will be measured by economic growth and productivity but also the well-being of the province’s population.

B.C. needs an economic well-being budget. We need a reboot of the economy in B.C. B.C. fares very well in comparison to the rest of Canada, but we don’t know what the future will hold. Child care and housing have come to the fore as critical economic foundations to drive job growth and entrepreneurship. Some initiatives, though, will need to be put on ice if it doesn’t drive economic well-being. So we present the following provincial policy considerations, and a formal submission was sent to you in advance.

On the topic of education, again, we urge the provincial government to work with the Surrey Board of Trade to continue their investments in early childhood education. It is the foundation of our house, and a strong house cannot be built on a weak foundation. In Surrey, there is a widespread shortage of qualified early childhood educators. As we know, Surrey has the largest school admission rate every single year — 1,200 new kids in the Surrey school district — and we know that education is part of our economic foundation. Together, we need to focus on the key leverage points where political, feasible investments of money and political capital can yield large changes in educational quality.

The way that we look at education now, especially after the pandemic, is going to change, especially for Simon Fraser University and Kwantlen Polytechnic University. In Surrey and in the South Fraser economic region, we have been starved of economic investments. There have been a lot of good investments in the past couple of years, but again, as it relates to education and many other initiatives that I’ll speak to, things like education really need to be focused on, especially for Kwantlen Polytechnic University and Simon Fraser University.

[4:20 p.m.]

On the topic of transportation, we’re looking at ways where people can get jobs, where red tape is reduced. Again, I bring to your attention ride-sharing. Some improvements around ride-sharing have been invoked, but again, we need to take a look at the class 4, class 5 licensing system so that more people can participate in the ride-sharing industry.

I also wanted to bring your attention to housing. COVID-19 has really brought to the fore how much we need housing. It really is an essential for our population in British Columbia. More social housing in Surrey will lead to decreased social and crime-related costs. We have a large number of not-for-profit developers that can really participate in development, and they can also bring many things to the community that for-profit developers can not. The solution is for the B.C. government to work with the federal government and local governments to really create incentives and opportunities to increase that current rental stock, for example.

We need to ensure residential rental tenure zoning as a tool to build more housing. On the topic of taxation, again we bring to your attention the employer health tax — the double burden that businesses continue to be faced with. That really needs to be taken a look at.

Revenue streams. New revenue streams around LNG, other pieces, provincial government budgets, again, will be impacted. But there are ways to look at additional revenue streams from projects. Partnerships with global entities, not taxation.

Public safety. Surrey’s public safety transition. Is it really needed? It is going to cost the B.C. government.

Industrial revolution 4.0. Taking a look at ways to really reduce cybercrime in this digital age. Investments around blockchain infrastructure need to be taken a look at. Really, a Canadian innovation strategy is needed.

And we bring to your attention the topic of universal basic income, which we’ve been advocating for.

Thank you so much for your time.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much. I appreciate that five minutes go very fast, and I appreciate you getting as much as you could in that short period of time. We did get written submissions as well. So thank you for that.

Members, questions?

R. Coleman: My first question is for all three presenters. Could you tell me what your memberships are in each of your organizations, please?

A. Huberman: In mine, it’s 6,000 business contacts. That relates to 3,000 businesses.

R. Coleman: How many members?

A. Huberman: Six thousand.

R. Coleman: You have 6,000 members of the board of trade, like due-paying members? So you’ve got 6,000 members that pay dues. Okay.

Board of Trade?

B. Anderson: Sorry, Rich. My Internet went unstable there. You asked me how many members we have?

R. Coleman: Yeah.

B. Anderson: It’s 5,500.

R. Coleman: Okay.

And the chamber in Richmond?

M. Pitcairn: It’s 1,000.

R. Coleman: Okay. Thanks.

Anita, you referred to a couple of things. Maybe if you could just expand on what you meant by two things. One being an economic well-being budget. And the second one is: what do you mean by blockchain in development?

A. Huberman: Well, an economic well-being budget is about taking a look at people and the economy. What we’re asking for is a repositioning of how we’re looking at economic investments in British Columbia — not only for Surrey.

So taking people and the economy together in messaging. What is British Columbia’s economic plan? There has been a poverty reduction plan. We implemented Surrey’s first-ever workforce strategy. That was funded by the Ministry of Poverty Reduction. We want those types of pieces to be part of the language of an economic strategy for British Columbia.

[4:25 p.m.]

To your second question around industrial revolution 4.0 blockchain, there is a Blockchain Centre of Excellence that is housed in Toronto. But the topic of blockchain or cryptocurrency as a secure way of doing business, especially as we’re entering the digital age, requires some thought — really considered thought — by the provincial government on infrastructure, education, innovation around blockchain. There are so many countries around the world that are utilizing blockchain to enact transactions around the world. Canada is very behind in this regard.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you.

Donna?

D. Barnett: This is for Bridgitte Anderson from the Greater Vancouver Board of Trade. You mentioned that 30 to 40 percent of capital projects had been cancelled or deferred. Are these private projects, or are these publicly funded projects?

B. Anderson: You know, when we asked the survey…. I should just be very clear on this. The survey was done in collaboration with the B.C. Business Council and the B.C. Chamber of Commerce. So even beyond our members. This was B.C. businesses based provincewide. We did not make a distinguishing ask in that survey. So there was no…. We were asking businesses about their own capital projects, and there wasn’t a differentiator between private and public.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you.

M. Dean: Thank you. I’m interested in…. Whoever might want to respond to this, how would you recommend that our economic recovery plan tackles inequalities like, for example, the gender pay gap? The coronavirus has hit different sectors and different people, as you were talking about, very differently and unequally. So how can we use our economic recovery to make sure that we don’t just continue to increase those gaps? How can we invest in our economic recovery to close those gaps?

B. Anderson: I’m happy to speak to that, Mitzi.

I think that early on research was showing that women were disproportionately affected. But as the pandemic has continued, it’s also showing that young people and immigrants have been disproportionately affected. So I think we need to think beyond gender, with appreciation to the importance of gender. I think we need to think about those sectors that really impact women, younger people and immigrants.

Service sectors are certainly a big part of that. If you look back to the 2008 economic crisis, it was the manufacturing sector that was really impacted and mostly male. This is very different. So when we think about what’s needed from government measures and for the B.C. budget is to focus on upskilling younger people and women as well and also ensuring that we are maintaining the importance of supply chains in those service sectors.

I’m particularly concerned about the tourism sector, though, which has a lot of women working in the tourism sector, which is going to take the longest time to recover. That is based on science. So I think there needs to be some innovation about how to work with the tourism sector in order to still ensure health and safety, but also to ease some of the restrictions that are impacting that sector to be able to operate.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Did you have a follow-up, Mitzi, or are you good?

M. Dean: No, thank you.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. Any other questions from members?

Okay. Seeing none, I wanted to thank all three of the panellists for coming today. We really appreciate the time that you’ve taken and also the different type of interface that we have with you. We really appreciate you coming on the Zoom meeting with us and this new format. We certainly would love to hear what your thoughts are about how we did this. So thank you very much. We’ll see you soon.

All right, Members. We’re just going to take a short recess. I wish we had longer, but we don’t. We’ll be coming back at 4:35. If you could just come on, maybe, at 4:34, that would be great. Thank you.

The committee recessed from 4:29 p.m. to 4:35 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Welcome back, everyone.

Next up we have two presentations, one by Todd Corrigall from Prince George Chamber of Commerce, and Colin O’Leary from Kamloops Chamber of Commerce.

Todd and Colin, to give you a heads-up, on the chat feature, I’ll give you a one-minute warning and then a please-wrap-it-up warning, if that’s okay. We have five minutes, and we’d ask you, please, if you could keep to that. Just given how many meetings we have, it’s really important. So we’d appreciate your doing that.

Todd, if we could start with you, that would be great.

Budget Consultation Presentations
Panel 2 – General

PRINCE GEORGE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

T. Corrigall: Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the opportunity to present today, and thank you to all the committee members for making the time to make these alternate arrangements in some challenging times.

I’d like to recognize that I’m sitting here today on the traditional territory of the Lheidli T’enneh. We’re pleased to work very closely with them on a number of initiatives.

What I did want to speak to the committee about today is broadband and some of the issues that rural and remote northern B.C. have experienced through broadband challenges — most notably, what COVID-19 has really exposed, as far as those challenges are concerned. As we’ve seen, many people have moved to home-based offices and practices that require strong Internet connectivity and strong cellular connectivity for their work to proceed.

We are seeing some of our friends in more rural and remote areas very, very challenged by that process. As we start to move further and further through this process, we start to look at what a new normal is for the business community, both professional and home-based businesses that will be strongly reinforced by e-commerce presences and moving forward.

We’re hopeful that government will take into account some of those last-mile projects that may be out there currently and some of the shovel-ready initiatives that may be available as part of an economic recovery. We all know infrastructure projects are great initiatives to get people working and to get money back into the economy, and it’s strongly our hope that through this process we can look at new shovel-ready projects and help connect rural and northern parts of British Columbia into the Lower Mainland.

It’s no surprise that a number of consultants who work on some of our largest resource projects across the province are operating as home-based businesses, and that connectivity piece is really challenging as we’re moving through this process and focused on Zoom meetings similar to this and conference calls. We hope the government will consider that strongly in their recommendations for projects moving forward.

One of the other pieces we want to talk about…. We did talk about the EHT during our presentation last year. We were very happy to see government defer that for this year. I think it’s vitally important that that step be taken. What we would like to see — knowing that this recovery process is not six months, not 12 months and likely not 18 or 24 months — is that government take into account that businesses are saddled with more taxes and fees than they’ve ever been before and that we must focus on remediation of those taxes and fees.

We’re strongly requesting that the EHT be deferred for a further year and that it be examined in a process to ensure that businesses that have been impacted by COVID-19 are able to bring their staff back so that that money paid to those individuals is able to re-enter the economy strategically and filter through a number of our businesses.

With that, I will hand it over for questions. Thank you for the opportunity.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Todd. What we’re going to do is hear both presentations, and then we’re going to do questions. If you could hang with us, that would be wonderful.

Colin, please go ahead.

KAMLOOPS CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

C. O’Leary: Thank you, Chair and committee. To echo Todd’s words, thank you for the time this afternoon.

I’d like to start off by saying that I am calling you from the unceded territory of the Secwépemc people, within Secwépemc’ulucw.

I have come here before the committee today to speak with you about the Kamloops Chamber of Commerce/B.C. Chamber of Commerce submission on the policy of new and increased provincial taxes impacting business and economic growth. The main premise of this policy submission is to bring awareness to the current provincial government’s strategies around creating, implementing, collecting and distributing how British Columbians are currently being taxed. The issue is that although any new taxes that you see are discussed and approved on the floor of the Legislature, B.C. businesses generally do not have the time to follow discussions around all new taxes being introduced.

[4:40 p.m.]

In an effort to create a more clear and transparent government with reference to all aspects of taxation, Kamloops and the B.C. Chamber of Commerce would like to propose the following.

First of all, create a taxation working group or task force comprised of professionals and experts of all sectors as well as the chambers of commerce and NGOs that are most impacted by tax increases. Through this working group, working directly with the Minister of Finance, we would then, one, create a template prior to an annual budget announcement and implementation illustrating the surplus or deficit results of forward years. This is even more impactful based on estimated budget variances due to COVID-19. This would then alert taxpayers to the intended results and create forward accountability of the resulting tax changes.

Two, consult with the predetermined, above-mentioned taxation advisory group as to the current, best and most efficient ways to arrive at solutions for shortfalls or abundances with an overall agreement to ensure accountability.

Three, establish a clear and transparent method of communicating the actual, ongoing results of tax changes to the public and business.

The underlining benefit of this new concept of taxation is that it allows government the benefit of accessing the taxpaying public and businesses, in particular, to ensure a more efficient and accountable taxation system. Really, what we’re proposing here is to have the heads-up and to be working with B.C. businesses and individuals so that before taxes are actually rolled out, people are aware of it. It can really help with the buy-in on the other side if people are part of building the solutions and realizing that the government needs to work within boundaries and needs, obviously, tax in order to achieve its goals.

With that, I’d like to wrap it up and throw it over to questions as well.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thanks, Todd. Thanks, Colin.

Questions from members?

R. Coleman: My question is for the Prince George chamber. There’s a major project…. I’m trying to remember the name of it off the top of my head. It has to do with fabric being developed by using the petrochemical industry in Prince George — about a $1 billion investment.

Have you got any input from the chamber as to how that could be advanced or how it could be provincially helped as far as getting it to make a final investment decision in your community? Do you know which project I’m talking about?

T. Corrigall: I believe you’re speaking to the West Coast Olefins petrochemical plant.

R. Coleman: That sounds right.

T. Corrigall: There was some opposition in town to that project. West Coast has since relinquished that land to BC Hemp, and they have moved their project just slightly north to Bear Lake.

R. Coleman: How far north is that of Prince George?

T. Corrigall: You’re about 100 kilometres north of Prince George. While we expect to be a bit of a supply hub, it’s challenging, certainly, that we initially lose the tax base.

R. Coleman: Is that up the Pine Pass?

T. Corrigall: Just south of the Pine Pass.

R. Coleman: Okay. Thank you.

D. Barnett: My question is to Colin O’Leary from Kamloops. You talked about tax changes and greater accountability to government. The second part of that, I would think, is a regulatory regime.

Do you feel the regulations in this province are impeding business and creating many burdens along with taxes? Would you feel that your advice on having an advisory committee for taxation should also be there to include regulatory regulations?

C. O’Leary: That is an excellent point. Absolutely. I mean, if we have a working group that’s pulled together already looking at tax, if there is an ability to reduce impedances through policy…. I think with having that representation as a working group, as a task force, we could certainly leverage that resource that is pulled together to address things such as you’re suggesting. For sure.

B. D’Eith (Chair): I have a question. I think it’s for Todd. I think you’d brought up the broadband issue. I did have a question in regards to how you feel…. The lack of access, especially in rural and remote areas, has had an impact, especially in this COVID crisis.

[4:45 p.m.]

What do you feel would be specific recommendations for improving broadband?

T. Corrigall: Thank you, Mr. Chair. We actually submitted a policy resolution to the B.C. chamber a week and a half ago at the AGM. So that will be coming forward to government.

There have been some tremendous impacts, not the least of which is people who are unable to functionally perform their job. So while you may live in Prince George or in Chetwynd, you don’t necessarily live in Prince George or Chetwynd. You live in a more rural area. If you’re unable to enter your workspace due to COVID-19 and have to work from home but do not have that connectivity, it’s not incumbent on your employer to provide that to you. So there are certainly people who have lost wages and lost job time due to that.

One of the larger issues that you’ll note in that policy recommendation, as it comes forward, is really the costing issue and how the ISPs don’t have parity across the board. Our colleagues at the Fort Nelson Chamber point out how one resort near the Yukon border is paying $1,300 a month while another resort just further south is paying $300 a month for the same level of connectivity.

That’s really a challenge, and I think it’s one of those opportunities where we need to look at how we get everybody connected. I believe it was 2016 when the CRTC noted that broadband was a basic personal service.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Todd. I appreciate how much work is needing to be done on this issue. So I appreciate that. I’ll be really interested to see the resolution you made.

D. Clovechok (Deputy Chair): Todd, this is a question for you just around the broadband as well. I’d just like to see…. It’s not only around business. It’ll be interesting to see, up north, if you’ve heard anything about students. Of course, students have been, with the online learning…. I’ve heard a lot of that. That lack of connectivity has really had an impact on their learning from home because of this COVID-19 thing.

I’m just wondering, out of curiosity, if you’ve heard the same thing.

T. Corrigall: We have certainly heard that. What we’ve started to see now is that…. UNBC has already sent out notices that they’re moving the fall sitting to an online sitting for all cohorts. So that connectivity piece is going to rear itself up quite largely.

We had a medical program at UNBC that’s relatively new but has a huge connectivity piece to it. There are doctors from across the province that are teaching that program, as well as students who are listening in to that program.

The challenge we have here in Prince George is that we’re not necessarily hampered by that like some of our colleagues in some of the surrounding areas. Now, having said that, we certainly experience those issues too. With UNBC and with CNC here, we’re experiencing those problems.

Again, what COVID has exposed is that these challenges are not short. Depending on what these timelines look like, we could be looking at multiple semesters that need to move on line for a lot of communities.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Any other questions?

R. Leonard: Thanks for your presentations. My question is around…. What is, if you know, the percentage of area or people or businesses that are not being served at all by Internet? I understand that $50 million was recently announced that is going through northern economic development to expand service where it exists. I think it’s where it’s existing, but I’m not entirely certain.

T. Corrigall: We actually relied heavily on the report from the Northern Development Initiative Trust in drafting this policy resolution to the B.C. chamber. A lot of the information that we’ve utilized is from there and from the UBCM recommendations — actually, from the city of Prince George as well.

While there are some of those pieces that exist, functionally what we’re asking for is not to rely on federal funding to move some of these initiatives forward. I think there’s certainly a case to be made from a provincial standpoint that, for our own provincial economic recovery, the provincial government can put some money behind these initiatives and move them forward while still working with the federal government on side funding.

R. Leonard: The question around…. How much coverage is there that’s lacking?

[4:50 p.m.]

T. Corrigall: I don’t have an exact….

R. Leonard: I want a sense of the magnitude of the problem.

T. Corrigall: Yeah. I wish I would have that response for you, MLA. I apologize for that. I think that if you look at the area north of Hope and the size of the province and how much is not necessarily connected, it would be pretty significant.

R. Leonard: I understand about the last mile. Even in my fairly developed community, we do have some pockets that the local providers are not willing to extend service to because there are just so few connections that they’re going to be able to charge.

T. Corrigall: Yeah. Back to MLA Clovechok’s point, it will be challenging for some of those communities too, where you see grade schools and high schools that have to dial in. If you’re on satellite Internet, boy, that can really bog down quite quickly. I know of several people that I work with that are on satellite Internet, and once you get a certain level of users on to it, it just completely shuts down.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Any other members have questions at all?

Todd or Colin, did you have any final comments?

C. O’Leary: Maybe I’ll make a comment. It might actually help Todd’s policy. It’s kind of ironic. Part of the reason why I’m actually calling into this meeting and I can’t see you today is that I am on satellite Internet. So I very much feel your pain, Todd, in all the points that you’re making, as a consultant myself and trying to work from home.

Besides that, I’d just like to make the comment that I’d like to thank the committee for your time and for listening to me today. I wish you all the best for the rest of the day.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks so much. I’d like to thank both the presenters as well, Todd and Colin. We would much prefer to be with you in person. We miss that connection, but at least we have this opportunity to meet virtually face to face. Thank you for spending the time.

Colin, I feel your pain too. I think we all do. It’s a difficult thing, dealing with connectivity in a time when connectivity is really, really important to do business and to do schooling and all those things.

Thank you both for your comments.

Were there any other comments from members or the Clerk’s office? Okay. I think that brings today’s proceedings to a close. If I could have a motion to adjourn.

Okay. We are adjourned. Thank you very much, everyone. We’ll see you tomorrow.

The committee adjourned at 4:52 p.m.