The committee met at 12:13 p.m.

[S. Bond in the chair.]

S. Bond (Chair): Good afternoon. I’m really pleased to be able to call to order this meeting of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts. I’m pleased to see my colleagues here today and very much appreciative of them fitting this into what is a very busy legislative schedule, running between three Houses and a variety of other things. You should have a draft agenda in front of you. I appreciate you taking a quick look at that.

Consideration of Draft Report

REPORT ON
SUMMARY OF ACTIVITIES 2017-18

S. Bond (Chair): The primary item of business today…. I would be looking forward to either your comments or revisions, if necessary. Today our first item of business is considering the committee report that has been circulated to members. It was sent on April 26, 2018. It is entitled our Summary of Activities 2017-18.

As we’ve said on numerous occasions, you have worked very hard as a committee to work through a number of reports. I want to thank the Clerk’s office and all of those who were involved in compiling the report, working with us. I think it’s a pretty significant piece of work that we will, hopefully, find ourselves being able to table in this session of parliament.

[12:15 p.m.]

With that, I wanted to, first of all, confirm that everyone has seen the draft report. We’re still open to suggestions today if there are any further revisions, but the report you have front of you reflects the best and most accurate description of our meetings and, as I said, has been circulated to you several weeks ago.

I’m assuming this reflects, in essence, your approval of the report, but we’re open to any comments you might have. If we are satisfied with the report, then we’ll obviously be looking to make several motions related to the report.

With that, are there any comments from committee members about the summary of activities report?

R. Sultan: It’s more just a general comment. I pick it up, and I look at all of the scope and range of the investigations that the Auditor General has conducted, and I’m impressed. It also illustrates the scope and range of this government’s activities.

To people who ask what we do we should say: “Well, here’s a small sample of what we do as government, or what government does and what we, as opposition, attempt to approve.” I think it’s an excellent summary of activities and shows the full depth of a lot of busy people trying to hold the government to account and make sure taxpayer dollars are well spent.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you for that, Ralph.

I did want to point out that we also did add an innovation to the report, which is something we’ll talk about more, hopefully, at our next meeting in June. You’ll find on pages — like page 25, which I’m sure you saw — the little thumb tack and a committee decision note, which is really our reminder of the things — and also for the Clerks and Auditor General and others — that we intend to pursue and follow up on.

I thought the visual was a really helpful way of reminding us, first of all, that there is additional work to do. But it also tells people that we made decisions to continue to look at these issues, not to hear about them once and hear how much progress has been made. We want to have the opportunity to pursue additional issues. I thought that was an important innovation that people will be able to see in public once the report is tabled in the Legislature.

A. Olsen: I want to add a little note of emphasis to what Ralph was just saying. As a rookie MLA, someone who has just come into this House and spent a year here now…. First of all, there’s no real guidebook on how to do this. You learn it over time. Then what you’re learning, what you’re wading through is actually a realization that the provincial government, no matter what side of the House we’re on, is one massive, massive body that has implications in all our lives.

To have the Auditor General crawling through that and looking for opportunities for us to do it better…. I think the Auditor’s done a great job, and I think that, in general, we do a pretty good job in government as well. It’s overwhelming, everything we do in this place.

S. Bond (Chair): Thanks, Adam.

I can say that I think the committee has really approached this in a constructive way. I’m not sure that’s always the case in this place, but I think we’ve found a way to work together that is really about trying to do things better — that government needs to. As Adam points out, it doesn’t really matter which side of the House you sit on. It’s about the taxpayers and people who sent us here. I think there’s been some good work done.

J. Yap: I want to express thanks to committee staff for putting this report together and tying it nicely and express thanks to Alayna for the work she has done in being part of the committee.

I think this report does reflect quite a good body of work that this committee has done over the last few months, so I’m supportive of this report as written and look forward to this report going forward to the Legislature.

[12:20 p.m.]

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you, John.

B. Ma: I do also want to echo the comments of my colleagues in saying that this is a very well-done report, a great summary of what is otherwise many, many hours of discussion. To be able to summarize it so concisely is quite impressive.

I do have one comment or, rather, maybe, a question. On page 31-32, which is in reference to the audit of B.C. Housing’s non-profit asset transfer program, paragraph…. I’m now looking at page 32, paragraph 3, under “Committee Inquiry,” which refers to some conversations we had during the time where we had asked questions that ministry officials had declined to answer during the meeting.

We did receive a follow-up response, and I’m wondering whether it’s appropriate to mention that they did follow up with a response. Perhaps we should include that in the report.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you, Bowinn. That’s a really good question. I’m going to defer to Kate to perhaps let us know whether that should be added.

Is it covered?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): Thank you for the question. I will defer to Alayna, if the response was received by the time the report had closed. It seems to me that it would be a good suggestion, since it relates to this active discussion that took place at that meeting. I can’t recall the timing of the arrival of the email.

Is that why it wasn’t here? Alayna, do you happen to recall?

A. van Leeuwen: I’d have to double-check the date to confirm, but I would say, subject to confirming that, I think it would be consistent with our existing practice to include it if it’s within that date range. You’ll notice on one where we asked a follow-up question around the meaning of a contact and the ICM system, we did make sure we acknowledged that the ministry responded to us. I will double-check the dates and act accordingly.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): Great. Thank you so much.

S. Bond (Chair): Thanks, Bowinn. That’s really helpful. I think it is important, if we’re going to lay out these reports and the discussion we had…. When the ministry or the organization gets back, I think it’s really important that they’re recognized for that prompt follow-up. That’s really well done, and we’ll check to see that that can be changed or added.

Any other comments?

I think, generally, I want to thank the committee for the work that it’s done.

Committee Report to the House

REPORT ON
SUMMARY OF ACTIVITIES 2017-18

S. Bond (Chair): I’d now be open to a motion. I think there are draft motions in front of you.

In order to complete the business, we require two. One is that we would adopt the report, and perhaps we’ll suggest “as amended.” That will cover off the addition that Bowinn has made.

Is someone prepared to move that?

G. Begg: I move:

[That the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts adopt the report entitled Summary of Activities 2017-18 as amended today.]

S. Bond (Chair): Moved by Garry. Any discussion?

Motion approved.

S. Bond (Chair): That’s fantastic.

The second motion we require is that the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts present the report to the Legislative Assembly at the earliest available opportunity. Do we have someone prepared to move that motion?

J. Yap: I’ll move it.

[That the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts present the report entitled Summary of Activities 2017-18 to the Legislative Assembly at the earliest available opportunity.]

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you, John.

Any discussions about that?

I think, as is normally the practice in the House, obviously I would table that with a few comments but would obviously extend the opportunity to the Deputy Chair to make some comments as well. We hope that would work.

Motion approved.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you very much, and thank you again to the team for the work that’s been done.

Draft Meeting Agenda

S. Bond (Chair): Recognizing how busy our days are today, I wanted to…. Item 3 is our draft agenda for June 12. You’ll see that it’s a fairly substantive meeting, as all of ours tend to be. There will be a number of reports back to us, and you can see we’re in the process of determining who the government witnesses are and a variety of other details.

If you have any concerns about the draft agenda, you are more than welcome to speak to Mitzi or myself as we prep for June 12. That meeting will be held in Vancouver, as we agreed to.

[12:25 p.m.]

The one thing that I did want to speak specifically about, in terms of the agenda, is the lunch recess. It’s really a chance for us to pursue that whole discussion around innovation best practice and are there things that we could, should or want to approach differently, like the follow-up items, and looking at, sort of, best practice.

Kate has done a really great PowerPoint which talks about committee practices, the status that we currently have and possible changes, looking at some of the best practices across the country. What I have asked Kate to do is to circulate this document to you prior to that meeting so that you can have a look.

I know that a couple of our members are unable to attend, and we will miss them, but if we circulate this in advance, hopefully, if you feel you’d like to provide some comment to us…. We’re not going to make decisions at that lunch break, but it’s just a chance for us to pursue some of the lines of thinking around innovation or changes we might want to make to the way our committee operates.

I think that’s probably all we need to do in terms of the draft agenda at this point. So lunch-hour discussion, and the discussion paper will be circulated with the agenda and other documents as we prepare for June 12.

Any questions about our upcoming meeting? All right.

Canadian Council of Public Accounts
Committees Conference

S. Bond (Chair): Our fourth item. I believe Kate has provided you with a letter. I’m going to ask her just to speak to it. As you know, the annual conference of our colleagues will be held this summer. I wanted to be sure that you had as much information as possible. I believe there will be a role for British Columbia at that meeting, and I would hope that Kate would just provide any details. If you’re interested in attending, I’m sure Kate will explain how best to do that.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): For the information of members, as the Chair has noted, you have received a formal invitation to attend, as a delegate, the annual Canadian Council of Public Accounts Committees Conference in Prince Edward Island. September 23 to 25 are the dates of the conference. We will be able to assist you in our office with your conference registration — any travel and accommodation that you might require in order to attend the conference.

In order to coordinate the attendance of committee members, it might be best, if you have an interest in attending, to either let the Chair or the Deputy Chair know, and perhaps we can formally confirm at the June 12 meeting who will be attending on behalf of the British Columbia delegation.

As the Chair mentioned, as well, we’ve been invited to develop a presentation. We’re happy to assist members in shaping that and ensuring that your experience at the conference is productive and a good use of your time as a committee member. We’ll also assist you in preparing a report back to the committee after the conclusion of the conference so you can report out to your colleagues at a subsequent meeting.

If you have any questions about the program or other logistics, please don’t hesitate to let me know.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you for that, Kate. I believe that British Columbia takes over the chair at that role. Is that correct?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): Yes. I’m excited to announce that I anticipate that your Chair will be elected to the CCPAC executive at this annual meeting, in anticipation of British Columbia hosting this conference in the year 2020. I think next year it’s in Ontario, if I’m not mistaken.

The CCPAC executive has a rotation through it each year, typically the current conference host and two vice-president positions for upcoming conference hosts, just to keep some continuity within the organization. There’s a very brief general meeting, typically on day 2. We might just have some­thing to look forward to on that date.

A Voice: Woo hoo.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you, Kate.

Yeah, woo hoo.

We do have a chance, I hope, to learn from some other jurisdictions, but I think we also have a chance to be a leader. Kate has presented to us previously about how the practice here in British Columbia is actually quite substantive. It is appreciated by other jurisdictions. So I think we have a role to play.

I would encourage you to consider whether or not you want to be part of that. I think it is on the agenda for June 12. I think, at that point, we could probably hope to lock in who the official delegation will be, since we’re going to be hosting in 2020. It’s hard to even imagine what that will look like in 2020, but it’ll give us something very exciting to be thinking about, I suppose.

Those are my items of business. Are there any questions about the conference?

[12:30 p.m.]

A. Olsen: In the past, what kind of delegations have we…? What has our role been in these conferences in the past?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): The British Columbia committee has had, typically, a good attendance and participation at the conferences. I think the last conference that we sent a delegation to attend — 2016, in Yellowknife — comprised four members. I think there were two government members and two opposition members, if I’m not mistaken. I attended, as well as a committee researcher — so quite a robust delegation.

The British Columbia Auditor General is likely to also attend with a component of her staff, because the annual conference, as I think I may have mentioned before, is held simultaneously with the Canadian Council of Legislative Auditors. There are some joint, combined sessions; there are some separate sessions.

Typically, we would send a minimum of two delegates, or up to four or so. If, as a Third Party member, you have an interest, I’m sure your attendance would be very welcome as well. Also, I should mention that as part of the committee’s budgeting cycle, we do anticipate regular attendance by committee members, so any expenses you would incur as a delegate on behalf of the committee would be covered by our office.

S. Bond (Chair): All right. Well, thank you for that. I certainly encourage you to give some careful thought to that possibility. We look forward to hosting our colleagues here in a couple of years.

Other Business

S. Bond (Chair): Are there any other items of business for Public Accounts today?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): May I mention…? Before we close the meeting, I wanted to thank Alayna van Leeuwen, our committee research analyst, for her help on this committee report.

Alayna has, unfortunately for us, accepted a position elsewhere in government. Her last working day with our office is coming up in the next week or two, about ten days from today. I wanted to take this opportunity — on behalf of all members, I know — to wish her well in her new endeavours and to thank her for her work with the Public Accounts Committee. [Applause.]

S. Bond (Chair): Well, certainly on behalf of the committee, Alayna, we really appreciate it. You’ve done an excellent job. Most of us here, the majority of us here, were rookies on this committee. Between you and, obviously, Kate, we’ve been very appreciative of your guidance and your assistance. We wish you much success in your next role.

We’ll have a motion to adjourn.

A. Olsen: So moved.

S. Bond (Chair): Thank you. We’ll do that democratically, not the Chair saying: “The meeting is over.”

Thank you very much for that, all of you, and thanks for taking time. We appreciate it, and we look forward to gathering in Vancouver on June 12.

The committee adjourned at 12:32 p.m.