The committee met at 1:03 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): I figure I could start by saying my name is Bob D’Eith. I’m the MLA for Maple Ridge–Mission and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

If we could introduce our guest speaker, who is going to give us a greeting from the Haida Nation.

Greeting from the Haida Nation

S. Grosse: Good afternoon. I just got asked to do this last night, so this has got it all written down. I hope it doesn’t seem too informal.

The way we usually do most things is I’ll introduce myself. My name is Stephen Grosse. I’m from the Sk’daa Kaaw clan. My mother’s name is Mary Grosse. My nonny, or grandmother, is Ida Smith. I’m a representative of the Council of the Haida Nation. I serve as a rep for Old Massett.

On behalf of the CHN, I’d like to welcome members of the British Columbia Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services to Haida Gwaii. You picked a beautiful day to come.

As your government has tasked you to carry out some of its government function here, I’d like to spend a moment to share a bit about the Haida Nation and its unique governance on Haida Gwaii.

The Council of the Haida Nation was formed in 1974 as a sovereign national government on Haida Gwaii. We are an elected council that represents all Haida citizens. The full council includes an elected president, vice-president and 12 regional reps. We have four in Masset, four in Skidegate, two in Prince Rupert and two in Vancouver. We meet four times a year at full council public meetings.

[1:05 p.m.]

As well, we have a hereditary chiefs council, which is where we seek advice. The way our government works is we take all our marching orders from what’s called a House of Assembly, where all the leaders gather. You can pass resolutions, and you tell us what to do. Our job is to follow those.

Also, on a lot of our standing committees, we have members of village councils from the villages of Masset, Old Masset, Skidegate, Queen Charlotte. We work closely with our municipal neighbours who sit at an all-islands governance table to make decisions that affect Haida Gwaii.

We have also built cooperative relationships with the province of British Columbia over the past 14 years and with Canada over the last 25 years. The relationship we have developed with British Columbia does not exist anywhere else in Canada, including comanagement of the land and resources and part of the sea. We’re moving into the management of the sea in the comanagement role.

I hope that you have a chance to take some time to explore a little bit of Haida Gwaii while you’re here. Our history on Haida Gwaii goes back a long way, and the Haida Gwaii you see today reflects the conflicts and collaboration the Haida Nation has with Crown governments since first contact. Our reconciliation relationship with the province of B.C. also reflects these cycles of conflict and collaboration.

Kunst’aa Guu-Kunst’aayah reconciliation protocol set the beginnings of our relationship 14 years ago with a commitment to continue to advance that relationship. We continue to work on the relationship today. Recently we were optimistic to hear Minister Fraser speak to us about B.C.’s renewed mandate to recognize the rights and title of the Haida Nation on Haida Gwaii involving Indigenous peoples and the work that still needs to be done together.

In your report back to the Legislature on the British Columbia budget, I hope you’ll reflect the work that still needs to go into refining B.C.’s relationship with Indigenous peoples. Good luck in your consultation process, and we hope to hear from our British Columbia neighbours on Haida Gwaii and also from the Haida citizens.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Stephen. I just wanted to give you a little gift on behalf of the Legislature and the committee.

S. Grosse: Thank you.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much for your words and for allowing us to be here on the Old Massett reserve and the traditional territories of the Haida people. We are very grateful to be here today.

We are actually all Members of the Legislative Assembly. We’re members here from all three parties, and we’re here to listen to you about your ideas and priorities for the next provincial budget.

Actually, earlier today in Masset, we did take a bit of time to look around. We visited the Gudangaay Tlaats’gaa Naay Secondary School and Haida Wild, which is the Indigenous fish-processing plant, which was really cool. We managed to see not only the plant but also the smoking facility. They’ve got a new walk-in cold storage that people will be able to come in to and buy product from — very, very exciting.

We’d like to acknowledge and thank the educators who took us around and showed us the amazing agricultural program they have and also the food program. Also, they have a shop where they actually build amazing furniture for local people.

There seems to be a real connection between the school and the community, which is such a nice thing to see, especially coming from bigger cities where those connections aren’t as prevalent as here. You could really see the connection, and that was something really nice to see. So we learned a lot, and I really appreciate that.

We’re also visiting communities from around the province to hear from everybody about the budget. Input is actually…. You can provide it in writing as well or fill out an on-line survey. So if you know anyone who’s local who didn’t have a chance to participate, they still have an opportunity to write in, do a video or fill out the survey. We’d encourage you, if you do know anyone who would like to still participate…. Please do. We would love to get that. The wonderful Clerks of the office take all of that information and put it all together so that we can make some recommendations.

[1:10 p.m.]

We carefully consider everything that you say, and then we make recommendations to the Legislative Assembly. This input will be included in a final report that we make on November 15, 2018.

Today’s format is a bit different than our normal format. We often have a long table, and I’m sitting at one end and somebody’s presenting about ten miles away. We thought it was very important when we come into an area with a smaller population that we don’t come in looking like a court or something, that we’re actually here to listen. That’s why we’ve set up in this way — so that we can have a little bit more of an informal discussion.

We’re also recording everything with Hansard. Everything that’s being said will be captured, which is really great. That’s why we have set things up this way.

We do have microphones. Stephen has one, and then Jennifer has another. We’ll make sure we pass those around. If you’re going to speak, make sure you speak into the microphone. Otherwise, it won’t be captured by Hansard, and then it won’t be in the transcript. We really appreciate that.

First I’d like to just ask the members to introduce themselves. Why don’t we start with Stephanie and then we can go around. Thanks, Stephanie.

S. Cadieux: Stephanie Cadieux. I’m the MLA for Surrey South.

P. Milobar: Peter Milobar. I’m the MLA for Kamloops–North Thompson.

S. Furstenau: Sonia Furstenau, MLA for Cowichan Valley.

D. Ashton (Deputy Chair): Good afternoon. Thank you for hosting us. My name is Dan Ashton. I represent Penticton to Peachland.

M. Dean: Hi, everyone. I’m Mitzi Dean. I’m the MLA for Esquimalt-Metchosin.

N. Simons: Hello. I’m Nicholas Simons. I represent Powell River–Sunshine Coast.

R. Leonard: Hello, everyone. I’m Ronna-Rae Leonard, and I am the MLA for Courtenay-Comox on Vancouver Island.

B. D’Eith (Chair): We also have, assisting the committee today, Jennifer Arril, who’s right here, and Stephanie Raymond, who is over there. They work in the Parliamentary Committees Office and basically put all of this together. We also have Mike Baer and Steve back there from Hansard Services, here to record all the proceedings.

Thanks again for welcoming us and making the time to participate. What we’re going to do is a little bit different. We’re going to allow people to just say what they want to say. Don’t feel that you have to stay for all the presentations. If you’ve made your presentation and you have to go, no problem. People will probably come and go as this process goes on, so feel free to come and go as you please, but you’re welcome to stay. You’re welcome to stay and participate.

What we’ll do. If we could, try to keep the initial comments to five, six, seven minutes, not half an hour, because we have to get through everybody. We want everyone to have a chance, and then we’d like to also have a chance for the MLAs to ask you some questions as well.

Who wants to be the guinea pig and go first? Yes, Sonia.

S. Furstenau: Can I suggest that we go around and just introduce our guests?

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yeah, we could do that as well. That’s a great idea. Why don’t we start over here? For people who are listening at home, we actually have a circle of people. If you could maybe introduce yourself and who you are, and then we’ll come back later.

D. Rachar: My name is Devin Rachar. I’m a councillor for the village of Queen Charlotte.

B. Favreau: Hello, everyone. My name is Beng Favreau. I wear two hats today. I represent Literacy Haida Gwaii on the island, a program that runs across the whole island, and also Haida Gwaii Arts Council, so recreation and literacy.

A. Egger: Hello, everyone. My name is Astrid Egger. I work in mental health and addictions. I’m also a very passionate volunteer for the arts, and that’s what I signed up for. I am also very happy to talk about mental health and addictions. Both are passions.

J. Fraser: Hi, everyone. Thank you for coming. I’m Joni Fraser. I’m a private citizen. I’ve lived here 32 years and worked in the forest industry, still work in the forest industry. I live in Sandspit, the other side of route 16.

G. Martin: Joni is here, as am I, for ferry issues. You’re going to hear lots.

[1:15 p.m.]

My name is Greg Martin. I’m the mayor of Queen Charlotte. I’m here representing the North Coast regional district. I’m their representative to the North and Mid-Coast Ferry Advisory Committee, of which I am the chair. I am keen to talk to you today about ferries.

We missed Adeana. I’m going to pass it over to Adeana Young.

Budget Consultation Presentations

MASSET COMMUNITY FORUM

A. Young: Háw’aa. Kuun Jaad hinuu dii X̱aat kya’áang. Adeana Young hinuu dii kya’áang. Kuun Jaad is my Haida name; Adeana is my English name. I sit here with a couple of hats on. I’m a mother of four. I’m married to a fisherman, and I am the deputy chief councillor for Old Massett village council.

I’m here today to talk about a number of issues in regard to how federal and provincial funding sometimes overlap and we get short on funds, and also to elaborate on B.C. Ferries and the difference between Haida Gwaii versus British Columbia in terms of corporate structure versus small business structure and our economy on Haida Gwaii and some other things that might just flow.

Right now we’re Old Massett village council. We have a private school on reserve here. I was sharing a little bit earlier that the building that we’re sitting in today is our community hall. Because our school is a private school…. It goes from preschool right up to grade 5. What they have there is just a school and the classrooms. They don’t have a gymnasium. They don’t have access to play. So thank you to Chief Matthews school for finding alternative activities to participate in today — outdoor activities or what have you — because this is the building that they come into to do their physical activity.

We have a multi-purpose building here. We also use this for community functions, potlatches, gatherings, sports. We have a health co-ordinator who hired somebody to come and work with sports and to have physical activity made available for community members of all ages. He started a basketball camp, volleyball, badminton, open gym. This is the only building that we have available for us to do our school physical activity, promoting healthy lifestyles and keeping our culture going with potlatches. This is the only building that we have.

School buses for our private school. We don’t have a school bus. There were opportunities for us to get buses. But there are barriers; there are challenges. Sometimes we missed a deadline, or sometimes the funding runs out, what have you. There’s always a barrier, especially for private-owned schools like the ones that we have here on reserve. Some of the decisions that are made for school buses for our public schools are impacted by decisions being made by other people in a different province who are running the whole contract for all of the school buses across Canada.

Some of the other things that I pondered about. There’s the way Haida Gwaii is run economically, through small businesses. We don’t have a lot of big corporate structures. We don’t have that corporate, business mind where our natural resources are impacted by big corporations and industries that have that corporate structure but don’t put the impact effects within their work plans.

I also wanted to mention that without having corporate structures and having small businesses keep the economy going on Haida Gwaii, the education piece to it is how we continue to educate our people about economics and small businesses and how to maintain healthy budgets within our small communities. Where do we find the funding to build the capacity? How do we keep the interest going, and educate small communities on the importance of finances and how finances and the cultural ways of living have to work together? How do we find that balance?

[1:20 p.m.]

I wanted to also talk about the B.C. Ferries and how Old Massett health is impacted by the ferry schedule. When we have membership going away on medical trips where we are given appointments to go see specialists that don’t come to Haida Gwaii, the best option is for a group of members to leave Haida Gwaii on the ferry.

We have no problem leaving Haida Gwaii. We have no problem at all. But when we’re coming back home, we can’t get back home. We’re put on a standby list. A majority of our membership who are travelling leave Haida Gwaii by applying for the travel assistance program through B.C. When we’re travelling with the TAP’s form, we don’t necessarily always have a credit card to make a reservation to come back home. Therefore, we’re put on standby.

We go on standby, and with B.C. Ferries, it’s a first-come, first-served basis. If you’re there at 7 a.m. to go on the stand­by list…. Let’s just say, for example, a tourist comes up at 7 a.m. You’re the first on the standby list. Then at 7:05 a.m., you’re a local who’s hoping to get home, and the ferry is filled by just that one. So you have to wait another two or three days or whenever the next ferry schedule is, and the travel assistance program will not necessarily cover your costs to stay in the hotel for those extra days until the next ferry is run. They won’t pay, help, give per diems for your meals to come.

That kind of goes hand in hand with teaching the importance of finances where the travel assistance program…. Maybe not a lot of people understand. It’s a subsidy. It’s not to cover your full costs. So the importance of finances and the real impact of locals wanting to come home, having a job to come back to…. I’ve had that struggle where I missed the standby twice, and I missed five days of work. Five days of work at $200 a day is $1,000 out of my livelihood when I’m trying to get by paycheque to paycheque.

The B.C. Ferries schedule and the way they’re operating…. Maybe they’re a successful corporation, but as a local citizen and how I’m impacted…. I’m impacted extremely negatively.

With the culture and language piece for Haida Gwaii, I think…. This is me, I guess, talking as a citizen who wants to see more of our culture and language being implemented on Haida Gwaii. As a regular citizen, I wanted to have open community gatherings where we could have knowledge holders or people who are interested in learning language, people who are interested in harvesting, but what I’ve found is that the people who are able to teach us are not willing to do it for free.

Although there’s a majority of community members who want to keep our culture and language and preservation of food there, it’s a real-life story that those people need a livelihood and they need to be paid for their teachings. It’s: how do we make sure that our culture and the western way of life can work together? How do we bring the barriers down, from cultural teachings to being paid? That’s all. That’s what’s coming to mind immediately, so I will leave it at that.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Well, thank you very much. We really appreciate that.

Did the MLAs…? Did anyone have any questions at all?

[1:25 p.m.]

R. Leonard: Thanks very much, Adeana. I couldn’t quite wrap my head around what you were saying around the culture of the economy on Haida Gwaii’s small business. You made reference to the bigger corporations, and I wasn’t quite sure what you were saying. Were you saying that there’s a lack of contribution to community by the big corporations? What exactly were you getting at?

A. Young: Yes, where we have…. Let’s just take logging, for example, because it’s a big thing on Haida Gwaii. There was all this protesting against Husby industry. There are corporations where…. They’re a successful company. They’re successful. We’ll leave it at that.

The return we get to Haida Gwaii…. We don’t see tangibles. We do have local employment from the company, but as far as tangibles and helping other programs that we could go…. You know, we don’t see too much of it.

R. Leonard: Like corporate sponsorships of community buildings?

A. Young: Yeah. Industry is not really making a big contribution to programs or buildings or….

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Any other questions?

A Voice: Not yet.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Not yet. Okay, we can come back.

Who would like to go next?

You’d like to go, Mayor? Thank you very much, Your Worship.

G. Martin: Last week at UBCM, we were inflicting ourselves upon Minister Trevena again about B.C. Ferries and the cuts. She said: “Well, of course, you need to speak to Finance Minister Carole James to make sure that we get the resources to restore the B.C. Ferries service contracts to their pre–April 2014 level.” Minister James said: “Well, that’s good, Greg. You should go. And don’t just make a static paper presentation to this committee, but get their attention.” So that’s what I’m here for.

I was going to do a PowerPoint, and my regional district chair said: “Your PowerPoints will put them to sleep, Greg. So try a striptease.” I said: “I’m not sure that’s the kind of impression I want to make.” But I’m hoping to impress upon this committee the importance of the B.C. Ferries service contract levels to us.

The hardest-hit community on the coast, the one that’s had the most negative community impacts, has been Sandspit, by the route 26. That’s our inter-island ferry, the Kwuna. Basically — and Joni, as a Sandspit resident, will expand upon this in greater detail — they’ve gone from two eight-hour-shift crews down to a single 12-hour crew.

The first impact that you notice is that they’ve got a 6 p.m. curfew. Their high school kids come over to Charlotte, over to my side, and they are shut out of extracurricular activities. The arts are shut out. We just don’t get to see each other very often. This is the first good conversation I’ve had with Joni since before the cuts.

More importantly, from a medical and safety point of view, because we have just the single 12-hour crew on duty, they are required by Transport Canada and WorkSafeBC to have a certain number of hours of rest. So we’ve had many instances over the last four years where we’ve had late-night medical transfers — sometimes injured people from Sandspit, sick people from Sandspit that can’t get over to the hospital in Charlotte.

Likewise, when we have late-night medical transfers to the jet to try to get people out, they can’t get from the hospital over. The service that we have now, because again, B.C. Ferries has to rest at night…. When we had two eight-hour crews, the second crew was available. They could borrow the whole crew.

When there’s an illness, when somebody doesn’t show up for work, the ferry shuts down. We’re 100 percent shut down. The major airport is in Sandspit, and we can’t get off to it. We’re totally strangled. Sandspit is the poster child for B.C. Ferries misery like that. They’ve been hit harder than anybody on the coast, out of all the 26 routes. It’s killing them. It’s damaging all of Haida Gwaii. We are a little less of a community because of this.

[1:30 p.m.]

In addition — and Joni, again, will go into this further to what Adeana was saying about the connection to the mainland from Haida Gwaii to Prince Rupert — we were cut down from a minimum of three sailings in the winter, which really wasn’t enough, to two, and in the summertime, from six sailings a week, which were all full, down to five. We’ve got huge overloads, backlogs like that. There are people that just can’t get home, as Adeana was saying. The standby list is ridiculous. It’s difficult.

Tourists. We’re trying to move from a resource extraction economy to a tourism base. The tourists, once they learn that they’re No. 25 on the standby list…. Well, Adeana and I will be in line like that. We’ve got to get home. We’ll be there, and maybe we’ll get on, or maybe we’ll spend a lot of money in a hotel. But the tourists will turn around. They go away. So it’s hurting us.

The problem is compounded in the spring when construction season ramps up. This year, we’ve got a lot of paving going on. A few years ago, it was hospital construction. There’s always something starting in the spring. Because we’ve got a longer snow-free building season, our construction season starts earlier. So on April 1, that’s right when we go from the larger Northern Expedition down to the 30-automobile equivalent, AEQ, the smaller Northern Misadventure. That’s right when the traffic is ramping up, and the capacity is ramping down.

We did succeed in getting a few extra winter sailings scheduled. They said: “Greg, there’s not enough to have three sailings per week minimum. That’s why you’re only getting two.” I said: “Two isn’t enough.” I told them there are numbers between two and three, and B.C. Ferries was baffled. So I said: “Try 2.5 just for starters.” So for the winter schedule…. It’s still not enough, but every other week we get three sailings scheduled — sometimes storms disallow that — and every other week, two. That was a very small victory, but it really hasn’t solved the problem.

B.C. Ferries, due to the service contract, has shortened the summer season. The summer season is when we have our maximum number of sailings. So we’ve got overloads sitting. We’ve got freight, everything but food, sitting over in Rupert. Sometimes it was backed up to Terrace and Prince George, to the truck depots. They just wouldn’t send it on to be cluttering up the overload areas in Prince Rupert.

It’s killing us economically. It’s killing us socially. What we’re asking you to do is, in your report, to lobby Finance Minister James and Premier Horgan, with whom we’ve both spoken this last week at UBCM, to reverse the cuts of April 2014 and to restore ferry service. It’s absolutely vital here. It’s our lifeline. We’re being strangled, and it’s not getting better.

This year, additionally, on the route to Sandspit, on route 26, there were larger than usual — the largest on record — overloads. So the residents…. As Joni will jump in, in a few minutes here and tell you, people are having to wait a couple of sailings and getting stranded. Charlotte people are getting stranded on the Sandspit side and vice versa.

So please hear our plea on bended knee. That’s why I’m here.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Your Worship.

Did you want to follow up, Joni?

J. Fraser: Sure. I’m a Sandspit resident, and I’m here about ferries. I can make it really short. If everybody wants to just read all of this, I won’t have to say anything. I only made four copies of these, so they’ll have to be split up.

My personal solution to the ferries has been that I’ve just avoided using them for the last four years, since 2014 — the fifth season. I will only go if I absolutely have to get to the hospital or a dentist. I no longer go for anything social whatsoever.

This summer I just happened to be in the lineup in mid-July.

For years, we’ve been lobbying — Greg, in particular, has been lobbying — knowing that even prior to the cuts, this was going to really devastate our community. So I’m very glad you’re all here today listening to this.

[1:35 p.m.]

In mid-July, I was in the ferry lineup to go for a dental bridge appointment that takes four months to get. I got there an hour prior to the sailing, and I wasn’t going to get on. There’s a certain spot where you know, as a local, that you’re not going to make it. I was just in shock. So I just walked up the lineup, thinking, “Okay, maybe I can hop in with someone else” — because that’s what you have to do — “and I’ll just park my car.”

The entire lineup was full of ferry traffic and tourists, and there was one other local. They were directly ahead of me, and they also weren’t going to get on either. So not a single local was going to make it on that ferry. It was at 12:25. The next sailing was 3:15. So you’re missing everything. There’s no point.

We decided that day, Rachel Houston and I, that we were going to do something about it, finally. We started up a Facebook page — and it’s all in there — and it’s called B.C. Ferries Kwuna Scheduling Issues. Within a few weeks, we had close to 500 members. It was just to give us information about what’s happening — you know, take a picture: “I’m at the ferry lineup for the 12:25. Don’t bother coming out, because you won’t get on.” Things like that, or that there’s a low-bed going to be on this ferry, so we know that’s going to take up a lot of space. There are just all sorts of things documented on that page.

Then we also ask people if they would start writing into the Better Business Bureau and giving critique on B.C. Ferries. So we had some of that, although they’re fairly slow. It takes them up to a month from the time of your submission to actually have it posted to their website.

Anyway, from that, we need three submissions to the government — Jennifer Rice, our MLA; also Claire Trevena; and Nathan Cullen, our MP, because he wanted a meeting with us. We had a meeting with him and also four or five Ferries people. The first submission, called No. 1, was on August 29. Second submission was September 7, and the third submission was just yesterday. These are just letters — a summary of letters from people and how it’s impacted their lives.

The very first one I want to go to, and it’s in the No. 1, is from our doctors. We had five doctors sign a letter, or maybe four doctors, just saying enough was enough — you know, what the impacts were.

We’ve had letters from MIEDS, Misty Isles Economic Development Society, and Skidegate Band Council. We had a meeting with Nathan Cullen, our MP. We have a letter from the Sandspit Inn, numerous letters from local people, also a petition we had at our Loggers Sports Day and a few news articles from the North Coast Review, from our local observer. We had CBC do an article as well.

The doctor letter…. Haida Gwaii Recreation has sent a letter, as well, because of the impacts there. Actually, the impacts are just really cradle to grave. It’s all across the board. So the doctors wrote a letter, and their letter is actually in the back, the second submission. They have seen an increase in the evening use of B.C. Ambulance with the Coast Guard, later presentation for emergency care because we’re all desperately never wanting to take the Coast Guard over, so we’ll just make it through the night any way we can until we have to take the first ferry.

That’s also a local issue as well. We know that if we call the ferry or the ambulance out, we’re calling out our neighbours in the middle of the night, and also the Coast Guard in the middle of the night, too. We just try not to do that if possible.

The doctors have noticed shorter or accelerated care. It’s the same with the dentists. “I have to catch the ferry. Okay, what can you do? What can you do, because we have to catch the last ferry?”

Admissions to the hospitals that are unnecessary. People come over later in the day, and they need care. They can be discharged, but they don’t get discharged because there isn’t a ferry back, so they stay in hospital overnight.

[1:40 p.m.]

Then patients move out of Sandspit due to concerns about the access to care, and that is a big one. I would say that out of 300 people in our community, we have probably 30 percent who are seniors. So we’re all looking at not being able to live in Sandspit much in the future because of medical care.

Then the doctors also say the effects on the transport of patients via medevacs…. That’s with the Coast Guard boat. They also said that often missing from the considerations of how ferries are scheduled is how health care might be impacted. Consider this letter a corroboration of the effect this has had on residents from Sandspit in the health care system islands-wide: “When costs are considered more holistically, the financial reasons underlying a reduction in sailings make less sense.” It’s really very true.

The third submission we sent in really focused on how horrific it is to take the Coast Guard boat once the ferry stops. There’s a picture of the ramp going down. This is at night. It can be a very steep ramp when it’s low tide. And we have pretty inclement weather in the wintertime, so it’s usually a southeast storm — something like that. The ambulance comes from the patient’s house to Coast Guard. We’ve also had comments from tourists saying that they couldn’t believe how long it took for it to be sorted out whether we’re going ferry or Coast Guard.

I was on ambulance for a while; I have an OFA ticket. You know, there is that golden hour that you have, if you’re seriously injured, to get to care. They have to transfer once from the ambulance, go down this steep ramp by stretcher, and then they have to transfer from the ambulance stretcher to the Coast Guard stretcher. The ambulance attendant has to think of everything they need that we normally would have right there in the ambulance. But it’s a 40-minute trip across, so you have to carry everything you need. It’s a tiny little Coast Guard boat, so you jostle this person into the boat.

Then there are letters here talking of the diesel fumes. The noise is horrific. The attendants can’t do vitals for 40 minutes because it’s too noisy and too rough. So any machine is just reset every time. It’s really a horrific situation.

Then you get to the other side, and it’s another transfer out of the Coast Guard boat onto the other ambulance stretcher and then to hospital. That’s two patient transfers, and then you’re at hospital. Then if you have to go out by medevac jet, it’s all the way back. So that’s four patient transfers in total. The quality of care is…. If you’re not dead by then. I wouldn’t even want to do that in good health. I would like to have somebody come and do one of those runs at night, just to get to hospital and back. It is horrific.

In the 32 years I’ve lived here, I’ve raised 14 children. I had two of my own and then 12 other children in care, through different amounts of time. We’ve often had to take the ferry over for any reason at all, and it’s been there for us. After 10:30 at night, they shut down till seven. We live in a little tiny community, so we’re really well aware that we’re isolated, and there are hardships from that isolation. But to have it cut all the way back to 6 p.m. is just outrageous. It’s killing our community.

Greg mentioned the two shifts versus three shifts. That’s really important. I’ve heard: “Oh, maybe they could do a split shift or whatever.” But with crew doing 12-hour days for 14 days, that’s almost working at maximum. They’re almost at their Transport Canada limit of what they can do. So anytime anything goes awry, which it does…. A crew person gets sick. Or the big ferry from Rupert comes in. It’s delayed — doesn’t make it in time for the last Kwuna sailing.

They used to always be able to run another ferry to get everybody home from the Kwuna. Well, they often can’t anymore, because they’d be over there. They wouldn’t get their rest hours. I’m all for the crew. I know if I was working 12-hour days for two weeks, I’d be pretty burned-out.

[1:45 p.m.]

There’s that and then the airplane. If the airplane is late, which it is at times, then everyone comes off the airplane. They can’t get over to Charlotte, and we have a capacity problem in Sandspit with hotels.

We have an airplane that lands at eight o’clock at night, and suddenly you have a whole airplane load of tourists or even locals. Tourists on a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Haida Gwaii. They’ve already got their hotels booked on the other side, etc. What an introduction that is. “Oh, there’s no ferry. You can’t get across. You’ve got to maybe sleep on the floor in somebody’s house.” We don’t have very many hotel rooms. So it’s unbelievable. It usually works out that they have to hire a water taxi, which is another 100 bucks. It is outrageous.

In this third submission, there are lots of letters from patients as well. And lots of letters from…. One in particular on a patient transfer. That was Tanya Krueger, who lives near me. Her mom was dying. She has lived here since the 1970s. Her mom’s wish was she didn’t want to have to go on Coast Guard. But of course, it happened that she had to go on Coast Guard. It was horrific. I can’t even read this letter any more — it’s two pages — because it makes me cry. Her mom died two days later, and that was her last experience.

There’s a great one from Matthew Bolton. There are people who work each side of the ferry as well. We have nine people from Sandspit who work in Charlotte. One is a teacher. There are about five or six who are health care workers. Then there’s one who’s at an insurance company. They are at jobs where they have appointments and meetings and such. There are times when the ferry is cancelled, or they can’t get on — an overload or whatever. They’re just stuck. They can’t make the ferry, and they already have a very shortened day because they have to skip out of their jobs early to be able to catch the last ferry home.

Two of them, a nurse and a nursing assistant, have said numerous times…. They’ve been texted to see if they could come in for a shift at the hospital, but they can’t make it because they can’t get a ferry over.

Matthew Bolton is our health nurse in Sandspit, and he comes from the other side. So we have people coming from the other side to our side as well. We have our health nurse, and we also have a health care worker. He wrote a letter, and I highlighted a little bit of it. He said:

“I’ve been unable to board the ferry from both Skidegate Landing and Alliford Bay on many occasions, despite getting into the ferry lineup at least 30 minutes before departure. This is particularly frustrating when transporting sensitive biological material, such as vaccines and lab samples.

“Further, there has been more than one occasion over the last year when physicians coming to Sandspit for their scheduled once-weekly visit” — we have a physician four hours a week — “have been unable to board the ferry due to overcapacity.”

Matthew says, for himself: “I have now begun commuting in my own boat to Sandspit.” But he can’t do that over the winter.

Another one is a nurse in Charlotte. He is a single father. He has some concessions to be able to make the 4:30 ferry. Otherwise, he’d be on the 6:10, and then he’d see his five-year-old daughter — well, she’s almost five — at seven o’clock at night.

Here’s one from a fellow I know. He has prostate cancer. He hasn’t been able to get to Rupert because he has been wait-listed. So he has chosen to spend the $1,000 for the flight to Vancouver. The chats forum is not working for him, and it doesn’t work for Air Canada. That’s out of Sandspit.

Here’s another one, who’s a mental health worker as well, Robin Pilon. She has mentioned to me many times that she hasn’t been able to get her vehicle on the ferry. She has home care visits, so she can’t even do her home care visits. She has this massive juggle that day for working her schedule and all her clients. It’s pretty hard on clients when you’re expecting a home care visit, and then it doesn’t happen.

[1:50 p.m.]

This one is mine. It’s the same thing. I have to have a diagnostic mammogram and ultrasound, and I’m in a really high-risk category. My mom died at 42, my niece just died at 38, and numerous aunts have died of breast cancer as well. So I’m always on it. When it came up that my mammogram required this additional testing in June, I couldn’t get on the ferry in July, wait-listed to Rupert and back. I couldn’t get on the ferry in August, wait-listed to Rupert and back. I just last week got an appointment for the end of September. It’s just not even acceptable.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Joni, I just want to make sure we have time for questions. If you wouldn’t mind wrapping up, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

J. Fraser: I wanted to mention one more, and that was Wendy Zarry — or two, really quickly.

Tanya Lavallee — she does home visits. “I live in Charlotte but take this ferry five days a week to provide home care to Sandspit residents. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve missed the ferry. The ferry has disrupted the care of many seniors and my clients with disabilities. If I don’t get to Sandspit or get back to Queen Charlotte, unfortunately, some clients go without care.”

Lastly, it’s Wendy Zarry, a neighbour of mine. She has breast cancer as well. “We live in Haida Gwaii. In November ’17, I had to go to Prince Rupert for a medical appointment related to my cancer. The ferry only ran once a week then.” Sometimes they’ll cancel the second sailing if it’s bad weather. They had an appointment that lasted 1½ hours. They had to spend seven nights in a motel.

“We’re both on pensions — myself, CPP disability; and my husband, old age. My cancer has returned. I’m now going from Sandspit to Queen Charlotte twice a week, once for blood work and the next day for chemo. With all the visitors on island and coming in from the airport, the ferry is often full, and the only way we can be sure to get on is being there 30 to 45 minutes before it sails.” She takes earlier sailings that aren’t the really busy ones. “On our return trip, we always just miss the 12:50, so we have to wait until the 3:40 to get home. When I’m sick from the chemo, it’s such a hardship to be waiting so long for the ferry.”

That’s a wrap-up. That’s just a little bit of how it is killing our community. It’s destroying our community not having the ferry over to this island, where all of the resources are, and also to Prince Rupert. I’m a really strong advocate for putting the ferries back to what our previous schedule was.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Joni.

If there are any questions for Greg or Joni, go ahead.

N. Simons: Thank you very much. I represent a constituency that has four ferry routes in it, and they all suffered when those 2014 cuts were made. Some of those sailings have been restored, but it’s always questionable as to what B.C. Ferries is about to do.

My question has to do with what successes or not you have had with the ferry advisory committees recommendations to B.C. Ferries itself. Secondly, are you aware of the medical-assured loading program that B.C. Ferries has tried really hard not to talk about?

My office has been dealing with this for quite some time, and only last week they finally agreed to put it on their website. The qualifications for people travelling for medical-assured loading include the emergency nature of the medical appointment and the discomfort of the person travelling, but also there’s one to be travelling to or from critical emergency medical appointment or be travelling due to a life-threatening illness. Doctors and medical people will be able to directly contact B.C. Ferries, as long as it’s a route that you can reserve on, and there will be complimentary reservation fees. I’m just hoping that people know about that.

G. Martin: Okay, thank you for those. To your first point, we make recommendations on the ferry advisory committee to B.C. Ferries, and any time it comes to the service contract levels, Mark Collins, the CEO, will be the first to say: “That’s great, Greg, but you’ve got to go to the government and get the funding restored.”

In the past, it always seemed like the government would point us to B.C. Ferries, the previous government, and vice versa, like that. We can never get them both in the same room at the same time. The key to it — and the key is right with this committee, to the Treasury Board, to the Finance Minister — is to please restore the funding.

[1:55 p.m.]

You’re correct that some of the cuts have been reversed. But as Brian Hollingshead, the outgoing chair of FAC chairs, said…. Chair of chairs — it sounds kind of like the messiah. But he said: “The further away, it seems, that you are from headquarters, the more ignored you are.” We’re just as far away from headquarters as you can get, and we’ve been ignored. We’ve been making the case very stridently and for a long time. We need those service cuts, we need the subsidies, and we need the funding restored.

I’ll let Joni speak to the medical-assured loading. It’s almost unheard of, but even if it’s known…. I’ve just recently become aware of the protocol, but it’s not in play here. I’ll let Joni speak to that.

J. Fraser: Yes, we found out about that August 28, I think. We had Jen Rice’s office — she’s our MLA — look into it, and it doesn’t apply to either of our routes here. It doesn’t apply to the Charlotte to Rupert run because that’s 100 percent reservable. It’s always fully booked, and there is no space. It doesn’t apply to the Kwuna because the Kwuna is not reservable. So unfortunately, it doesn’t work for us.

N. Simons: Okay, that’s good information to have. Copy me on your correspondence. I’m talking to B.C. Ferries and the minister all the time about ferries.

Texada Island used to have a sailing from Powell River at 11 o’clock at night. It was cut back to eight o’clock, so lifestyle was severely impacted. You can no longer really raise a family on Texada.

J. Fraser: I’d like to get emails — if anyone wants to give me their email — because I have three submissions that we sent in already. They’re one PDF each email. I’d gladly share with any of you.

Interjection.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Jennifer Arril said that the committee has received that, or you could send it to….

N. Simons: More importantly, it’ll be part of our deliberations as we decide what recommendations to make to government, and you’ve made a very good case. Thank you for that.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Do we have any other questions from the MLAs?

We have two new people who have joined our circle. I gather you’re here to listen, and that’s wonderful, but it’d be really nice if you wouldn’t mind just introducing yourself so we know who you are. That’d be great. Thank you.

F. Davis: My name is Freda Davis. I’m on Old Massett village council.

B. Kallio: Hi, I’m Brandon Kallio, formerly of Masset village council. I might have a question later on.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Well, thank you for coming. We appreciate you being here.

If no more questions on that issue, we might as well just keep going around the circle, if that’s okay.

Astrid, if you wouldn’t mind.

A. Egger: Thank you, everyone, for hearing us, and thank you again to Old Massett for hosting this here.

I’m Astrid Egger. I’m a volunteer with the Haida Gwaii Arts Council. We’ve been incorporated for 36 years. We’re an all-volunteer organization, and we make sure that the arts, in whatever forms, are coordinated, promoted on the islands.

I would like to follow up on the ferry discussion. Prior to 2014, we had a substantive participation from Sandspit residents for shows. We would have ten or 12 people, at least, coming over, sometimes more, for performances, for music events, for art shows. But with the six o’clock curfew, that’s not feasible.

Yes, people might stay over, but you shouldn’t have to do that to just have a really good, enjoyable time and to be able to have some variety, to have kids. Our events are usually very kid-friendly, so people were able to come there as a family and enjoy the arts in whatever form. That has ceased.

[2:00 p.m.]

You might fairly ask the question: “Why don’t you put events into Sandspit?” Fair enough, but part of our evaluation always has to do with attendance figures. Our funding is through grants, and we have to prove that we’re successful through attendance but also through quality and individual evaluations. Can we always guarantee a big attendance? No, not necessarily with a community that may not have as many folks there. I mean, it’s been that long since I’ve seen Joni at an event. She used to come over.

That’s an issue. You might say: “Well, the arts, the arts.” But it is vital for people to have….

B. D’Eith (Chair): We will never say that. Don’t worry.

A. Egger: Thank you. I really like that. I think the arts and health are very connected, in my mind and in everybody’s mind.

That’s definitely something that we’ve struggled with over time, to be able to have people come over. I’ve even talked to some of the carvers that have said, in the past…. When people went down to Gwaii Haanas, they’d come in the evening to the art studios to purchase art, if they didn’t want to go to a gallery or something. That has ceased to happen. That’s anecdotal but still.

On the positive end, I would like to thank the government for the continued funding and for the influx of funding for the cultural sector. We’re not all about complaining. We see it as important. We also would like to say that funding, especially the idea of multi-year funding, is a good direction to go in. As an organization, especially all volunteer, you’re struggling all the time with getting a grant — maybe getting a grant, not getting a grant, having cash flow, not having cash flow — and having to prove every year that you’re doing good work. That’s onerous, to say the least.

Also, we want each other to succeed. We don’t want to be in competition all the time. We recognize when people do good work and when they do good things. We’re not into being miserly. We want everybody to succeed in the arts, and we want to have it recognized as a positive and healthy environment.

I’m going to hand it over to our president here. I’m the secretary-treasurer of our organization.

B. Favreau: I’m Beng Favreau, president of the Haidi Gwaii Arts Council. You’ll hear me again later on, with another hat.

Just to continue with what Astrid has said, the issue of B.C. Ferries. There is, on Haida Gwaii, recreation on the island, and there is funding available on the island for any islanders travelling from Sandspit to come for programs in the evening. It’s a paid ferry, in the first place. We used to have a lot of audience from Sandspit but no longer, as such. Even if they want to get the ferry paid for, it is not possible because there are no evening sailings. That really impacts a lot of attendance for our programming. That is a huge piece.

Not only that, in terms of our art show, we have…. It’s a community art show. For the evening openings, we cannot draw our Sandspit artists over here because it’s so hard on them to even come across, having to knock on the doors of friends or family. Even when we try to billet, it’s not possible. It’s really too hard.

In terms of the arts…. Again, the impact of travel affects the culture and affects the art. When we try to receive our performers at the airport in Sandspit, sometimes we do have trouble getting on board. The last one that I can share with you was last week. When I came back with Air Canada, we were supposed to fly into Sandspit. It said a one o’clock departure from Vancouver, but it was delayed till almost three o’clock.

[2:05 p.m.]

By the time we get home, it’s around 4:30. We have missed the 4:05 ferry. After 4:05, you have the 5:35, which is the last ferry from Sandspit, because the last ferry from Skidegate is six o’clock. We were all trying to rush. The plane was a full plane, with tourists and locals. That’s the dilemma that we get.

At times when I meet with my performers…. We have to ensure that they fly in a day before the performance just to make sure. In the past, we had situations where we receive them at the airport, take them across to Graham Island, set up the show. Then they perform twice: once down south, once up coast. But it’s no longer the case. We have to ensure that we have extra funding to fly them in the day before — to make sure they’re here so there’s no cancellation on our part. Then the show goes on the second day and the third day, and the performers leave on the fourth day.

We have to change and adapt to travel, which can be cumbersome. Where’s that Facebook page that Joni mentioned about…? Why do you have 500 other people? It’s because each and every one of us, almost everyone, has become the web camera for B.C. Ferries. We don’t have web cameras. We have no live feed of the lineup, not like in all the other Lower Mainland and coastal areas.

On the Sunshine Coast and some of the areas, are they all…?

Interjection.

B. Favreau: Yeah, they do. Is it all by reservation?

N. Simons: No, they’re not all by reservation. On the Horseshoe Bay–Langdale, which goes from the Sunshine Coast to Vancouver, you can reserve. The one from Comox to Powell River can reserve, but the other two you can’t.

B. Favreau: It’s all first-come, first-served.

N. Simons: That’s right.

B. Favreau: For us, I think it’s a little bit sticky because the way the…. I’m not sure if you’ve ever driven down the south end. The lineup goes all the way onto the highway. It’s a little bit different. There’s really no pull-in spot for B.C. Ferries. So that’s, again, kind of an iffy point.

In terms of the arts, this is all I want to share. We are happy. We’re thankful for the multi-year, the three-year, funding. I think that’s really, really important to us. Once we put in that application, we know at least we’re secure for three years. I would love this committee to hear that from us. We’re thankful for that grant.

With that, I think I’ll just wrap up my piece.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much.

Mitzi Dean has a question.

M. Dean: Thank you so much for all of this information and for sharing with us all of your experiences.

Joni, I saw in your papers that you had some statistics around increases in people travelling on the ferries. I’m just wondering whether you have general statistics in terms of increases in numbers of visitors coming to that whole community.

J. Fraser: I’m not the person to talk to about that. I know we have a lot more people, but Greg knows.

G. Martin: The B.C. Ferries stats aren’t out yet for July and August. In the three-pager that I circulated earlier, I think we’re looking at something like a 27 percent increase in cars and 34 percent in trips, or vice versa, year over year. That’s for May and June. The July figures might be out by now, but they’re always at least a month behind.

Anecdotally, we’ve had massive increases in tourism — just my observations of the number of cars ahead of me, like the campers and so forth. Also, there’s heavy construction too. Just coming over, as we picked up Joni at the ferry terminal today, there was a massive low-bed with a huge excavator on it. That takes up at least five spaces. You just groan if you’re behind, and he was first in line too. There was a fuel truck too.

Another thing to consider is that — and I think this is mentioned in our briefing note — the fuel comes over on B-trains. Sometimes, if they can’t get over on the Kwuna…. Even if they haven’t used up all the deck space, they’re overweight, and it’s bad form to sink a B.C. ferry. I apologized to the minister. We sunk one on a northern route here a few years ago, and I promised that we wouldn’t do it again.

There you have it. The traffic is up considerably.

M. Dean: I’m just wondering. Do you have any other data, apart from the ferry use, that you record that measures people coming to the community? They might choose to stay in one place rather than use the ferry.

[2:10 p.m.]

G. Martin: B.C. Ferries, on the Rupert side, doesn’t capture the number of people that are turned away. They don’t currently have a mechanism for that. They have numbers for their wait-list, but a lot of people say: “I’m not going on a wait-list like that.” B.C. Ferries claims they have no way to capture that.

B. Favreau: In terms of other stats, the local visitor centres have stats in terms of people coming on to the island, how many people this summer. But I don’t think that’s released yet, right? I’m not sure. But there are other stats available.

B. D’Eith (Chair): You might just want to hang on, because I’m going to ask you a question. I just have a question in regards to arts and culture. We have talked about the ferries, and I understand the challenges of that.

I’m just curious, having been on arts councils myself. What kinds of challenges do you face, being in this area, in terms of, let’s say, getting the talent here? What sorts of challenges do you face that are unique to Haida Gwaii. I’d really be very interested in that.

B. Favreau: The biggest challenge is travel and cost. The funding we get is strictly based on the performance fee. It’s based on the performance fee. So we try our hardest. We’re really penny-pinchers. Our arts council is a very penny-pincher kind of society.

We have no trouble finding artists. We have no trouble finding performers. When we reach out and say, “Would you like to perform in Haida Gwaii?” we get lots of names that say yes. They would be more than happy to cut down on their performance fee in order to come.

The issue is we can never, never afford a six-piece band or a seven-piece band. Because number one is travel. If they come by Pacific Coastal or Air Canada, it’s at least $6,000 right there, just to travel. And we have to pay for accommodation — that we can manage — but in terms of that, it’s travel.

The other biggest piece is in terms of them coming by B.C. Ferries. We have to ensure somehow that they come in by the Thursday ferry. The performances are done by the weekend. They stay until Tuesday because the ferry comes on Thursday and leaves on Tuesday for us. So we have to really work out a particular structure so that it would fit the ferry schedule. It is daunting. It is hard.

Travel is the biggest piece. In terms of the flight, it’s the cost. In terms of ferries, it’s the schedule.

B. Kallio: I’m Brandon Kallio. I’m a Masset community member. It’s not so much that it’s so black and white. The ferry and the lack of space affect so many different things.

As a commercial fisherman, shipping only goes out on certain days. So you add that on top of weather conditions and whatnot. Plus some of the DFO fisheries equipment that we use is rented by the day, so that’s an added cost. All this pressure is added onto what used to be a fairly lucrative and easygoing way of living. The thing is, you get two shipping days out of the week for fishing, and the boat is sitting there spending $400 a day renting video, like data recorder for Archipelago.

Interjection.

B. Kallio: Yeah, the lack of dependability has a large effect on that part of the economy.

Plus coming the other way during the summertime, the Co-op, our grocery provider…. We have additional fishermen and tourists putting that weight on our Co-op.

[2:15 p.m.]

Then us locals go in to purchase our food, our staples. They’re usually bought up after the third or second day after shipping, so then that’s an added cost. We have to add to our capabilities of storing — like, say, freezing our milk or our bread and whatnot — so that we don’t run out.

There are quite a few different areas where the ferry is fairly ineffective. We were actually personally in that situation. During the summertime, we were coming back, and it was on medical, because of the medical subsidy. We’re thankful for it, but there’s no credit card system, so you can’t book in advance. You have to show up, and you have to get on this waiting list.

There was a vehicle at the same time, a little bit larger, that had a camper on it. There was one with a canoe and a kayak on top of it. So the two tourists were on either side of us. They went around, and they went onto the vehicle. It was blatantly said that their dollar value was worth more than the community members’. But our argument was: “Well, as community members, we have a job to get back to, and we’re sustaining our communities in that way.”

Those tourists are on holidays, so they could stay in their camper in Prince Rupert on that side for an extra day and wait till the next sailing. But we have time booked off from work. We have time away from our families, where we have child care that we have to pay for.

All these factors all stem from the ferries scheduling and, really, the way they prioritize the standby list. That’s a huge factor in the way our lives are and how it affects us in what we do here. It really adds so much pressure that it’ll push some of our community members in the way of wanting to just move off the island. We’ve had families that have just moved away due to that fact.

A. Young: Coming back to the question, “Are there any other statistics that have been compiled for the usage of B.C. Ferries between Skidegate and Prince Rupert?” a source to reach out to would be the health departments, within the two communities, from the band councils. Old Massett Health uses B.C. Ferries heavily for medical travel. For us to be reimbursed for medical travel, they need to have all those receipts, and they need to see who has travelled how. So some statistics to be compiled would be through the health departments of both Old Massett and Skidegate.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks, Adeana. I appreciate it.

J. Fraser: It’s on statistics as well. I think the statistics really don’t even capture all the emotional, psychological and everything-else issues of this entire prospect, because statistics don’t account for anyone like me who has just completely given up trying to use the ferry for anything.

It doesn’t account for many people that I’ve seen drive the 11 kilometres out to the Kwuna from Sandspit, look at the lineup and turn around. The ferry crew can’t even see who’s turning around because the lineup goes so far up the hill and down toward a bridge. It’s a wait of at least two, sometimes three, sailings, and that could be six hours waiting. The statistics don’t cover any of that or the people who, as Greg said, want to come here but don’t even try because they’re going to be wait-listed. All of that’s not accounted for.

One woman in Sandspit, who takes the ferry to Charlotte every day for work, put in a great submission, as did many. She said, “The constant anxiety generated by the fear of not getting to your destination on time or at all….” That just sums it up completely, to me, and I only take the ferry two or three times a year, if I absolutely have to get to Charlotte.

[2:20 p.m.]

I refuse to take it. It’s an anxiety-ridden day. I don’t know how the people who work every day over there do it. When they can’t make it back, she says: “Workers, forced to leave work early to jockey a place in lineups with tourists, fear not making it home for the night, jeopardizing their employment, budgeting hard-earned money for accommodation — 100-plus bucks for a hotel — and being late for work every day because the schedule changed.”

That’s another thing; the schedules change. The teacher in the high school and everyone who works in Charlotte are ten minutes late for work every day. The school kids are ten minutes late for school every day because they’ve compressed the ferry schedule, and they were ten minutes late for their provincial exams, which start at just a bang-specific time. It’s crazy.

Statistics don’t really capture the terrible toll. Also, spreading the same number of runs out over a greater time period doesn’t work either. Having a preferred reservation system works a bit, but the real issue is that there’s too much traffic for too little capacity. Whether you’re spreading it out or not spreading it out, you’re still going to have the overloaded people and those who will never get on. So we absolutely have to have our previous schedule back.

One last thing. In Sandspit, in the summer, we have two flights a day instead of one. That’s another drain on a bottleneck, which is the Kwuna.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Right. If I may, I think we’ve had a lot of talk about the ferries. I’d just like to…. We haven’t really talked about anything else.

Devin, did you want to come in and maybe talk about what you want to do?

Then I would encourage everybody that if there are other issues that are really important, we need to hear about them. For example, when we were in the school, someone talked about a tsunami tower. I didn’t even know what a tsunami tower was. But I gather it would be a really important addition to the school because you can’t get to high ground in time. If there are any of those kinds of issues that we need to hear about, I’d really appreciate that as well.

Devin, if you wouldn’t mind just going ahead and introducing yourself.

D. Rachar: Sure. Devin Rachar, village of Queen Charlotte. I didn’t mention in my earlier introduction that I’m also on the board of the Misty Isles Economic Development Society. I’m also on the board of Gwaii Trust, and I am a member of the ferry advisory committee, as well, for this area.

The reason you’re hearing so much about the ferries is because we have lobbied to Minister Trevena, we’ve lobbied our ferry advisory committees, we’ve lobbied Finance Minister Carole James, and they’ve all sent us here. That’s why we’re here, and that’s why you’re hearing so much about the ferries. Take that for what you will.

There are some other issues on the island, for sure. One thing that I would like to address is health care. Haida Gwaii is unique in the northern and rural communities in that we don’t have a problem attracting health care professionals. It’s just that we don’t have enough positions available. I’m specifically referring to mental health and addictions, physio and long-term rehab positions. Astrid, as she mentioned, is a mental health care professional, so maybe she can speak more specifically to that.

We have another council member in Queen Charlotte who is an RMT. She’s a caregiver, and she’s more of an expert on this. But I’ll try to convey some of the things that she has shared with us in terms of physio. We have one full-time physio position, and that covers both Masset and Queen Charlotte. So it’s split between the communities, which are a couple of hours apart.

It’s impossible to see a physio if you need any sort of rehab, unless you’re kind of fresh out of major surgery. There’s no long-term care and rehabilitation available for people on the island. That’ll come back to the ferries, too, if you need to go up-island for something. But this is something that can be addressed in a budgetary sense. We need more positions available.

I’ll pass it on to Astrid. Maybe you can talk a bit about mental health and addictions.

A. Egger: Yes, definitely. I mean, just having worked in the field, there is a definite need for more positions. People working in the field do their best. In Queen Charlotte, we have 1.5 positions. Here in Masset, I believe — it has been a while since I was up in Masset — it may be two within Northern Health.

[2:25 p.m.]

There are also, through Indigenous funding sources, positions for wellness workers and mental health professionals. As an island community, I must say we all try to work very well together, closely together. There has been a lot of cooperation from all sides, like the villages. But still, you have a Monday-to-Friday schedule. That doesn’t meet all the needs. What about weekends? You have a difficult time to provide that service everywhere.

There are some issues around good training available for people. Sometimes, it does take travel off island. Yes, we all like webinars. But the actual training, where you have some supervision in a controlled environment — you don’t necessarily get that. Definitely, training and improved funding for training for professionals would be a big help. But frankly, we could have one more position for sure, by demand, so that people can have better access.

Child and youth mental health is through the Ministry of Children and Families. That’s sort of a historic division. I’m not sure if they are the best served. I think they would be better under the umbrella of other health organizations, so that the one lone worker on Haida Gwaii isn’t such a lone person anymore. They usually get supervised through Prince Rupert. So they are really isolated, doing a very difficult job, being road warriors going up and down the islands. I’ve done that myself, but it’s not ideal for a person. It’s best to have people in communities who know the communities and who connect on other levels as well and with youth in particular.

There is a huge demand, also, for somebody who can be there, available not just once a week per community or even twice a week. I believe re-examining that division — the structural division and which ministry should run it — is a big concern as well. Definitely, funding for positions, and good educational funding, is a priority.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Astrid, could I ask you a quick question? In terms of the specific positions, are we talking about…?

A. Egger: Counselling.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Counselling positions. Okay.

B. Favreau: Beng Favreau. Now I represent Literacy Haida Gwaii.

In terms of mental health and health care…. My society is a non-profit society. We’re a catch-all, so we work on bud­get workshops. We create budget workshops. We create not youth programming but youth support, in terms of the academic and the mental wellness.

We started what we call the high-risk youth program last year. The youth who are out of schools are staying home, because they have no counsellors to go to. There’s only, like Astrid said, one counsellor. He or she runs across the island, three hours’ drive each day. That takes up a lot of the driving time, let alone consultation time.

People are coming to us, because mine is a literacy hat. We address literacy on many different levels: mental wellness, health, financial, education. Parents are coming to us and saying: “Can you help us with this?” But I’m no counsellor. I can’t do the counsellor’s job. All I can do is to support the youth with what we call…. We have identified a few local mentors. We go to their homes, visit them, take them out for coffee, take them out for tea, just talk. All they need is to have a conversation with someone else who might not be family members.

[2:30 p.m.]

Lots of times the family situation isn’t the best. That’s why you need to take them out. You need to go shopping with them. These are what I call not home visits but just a personal visit.

I would love to see a little bit more funding coming to hire counsellors from the health care piece, from the Ministry of Health. I don’t even know which ministry I belong to. In my literacy piece, we have funding from the Ministry of Education. We have funding from the Ministry of Advanced Education that is really more for adult upgrading and education in general. But what about the mental health piece? We don’t have any support from any other ministries.

I mentioned earlier on, before the start of the meeting, where literacy belongs to a no man’s land. We don’t report to one sole ministry, because of the nature of our work. If we talk about financial, then is that the Ministry of Finance? If we talk about education, that is pretty clear — the Ministry of Advanced Education and a grey area with the Ministry of Education. But what about the Ministry of Health? We have to address health issues.

I work in partnership with many, many organizations here — the Skidegate Band, the Old Massett band, the health authorities of Skidegate and Old Massett — but we can’t do it all. I think it’s really hard. When we apply for funding, we have to work in partnership so that we can tap into different funding. If only there were set funding for communities, I think we could do much bigger work.

You mentioned earlier on that you could clearly see the partnership on this island, which is very, very unique. That’s how we operate, and that’s how we have so many different hats. We work together. We know a lot of people here on the island. But to make it work, the funding is key.

I really would love to see more counsellors, in terms of funding issues. If they want to have more funding, counsellors are a need. At one point, there was a crisis because of fentanyl, because of drugs on the island. The kids have nowhere to go. Counsellors are key. The school district did not have a lot of funding for counsellors. It’s only the last two years, I believe, and it’s not full-time. I wish there were a representative from the school district. If there is funding from the ministry, I think getting more counsellors on the island is really important for Haida Gwaii.

N. Simons: Thank you very much for that.

We’ve heard about the need for enhancing our supports for young people. It was interesting. When we were at the high school earlier today, we were told about a program where the Ministry of Children and Families funds a full-time, year-round not quite a counsellor but a wellness or a liaison…. I’m not even sure what their title was. But it seems to me that that’s sort of a less formal and maybe less intimidating form of connecting people when they’re having troubles.

I’m wondering what you think about that. It’s yet another ministry funding…. It’s the Ministry of Education receiving funding from the Ministry of Children and Families for something that occurs at home and at school.

B. Favreau: I think the important piece of funding is…. I think in today’s world, we can’t look for just stats and boundaries. “Okay, my funding is only for this bit.” I’m not even sure of the word. It’s a grey area. I totally understand how funding has to be captured by stats. It has to be justified, right?

[2:35 p.m.]

What we did. Because of our funding, I have a little bit more freedom. Part of my funding came from the Ministry of Advanced Education, but it’s only for 18 years and up. I have to find some other sources for other youth that are not even 18 but are out of school. Literacy Haida Gwaii is the only society I know of on the island that fundraises every year because there’s a lack of funding for our programming. Because of our fundraising, I can then justify how I want to use my money, right?

We started this high-risk youth program where the mentors visit them. I think home visitation works. I really believe in home visitation. It’s not: “Come to my office at nine o’clock, and let’s talk.” That doesn’t work anymore. You have to go and say: “How are you doing today?” Maybe even just a text. I even find that our mentors texting them and checking in with them works, because they say: “Yeah, someone’s talking to me.”

They are bound with their devices these days. The youth don’t go visit you at ten o’clock. If you are lucky, you can get them out of bed at ten o’clock, right? There must be a way. Things have to change, because our younger generation is growing up in a very different way and a different lifestyle.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Adeana, you had a comment?

A. Young: Yes, please. In addition to mental health, being creative in how we can access money for funding, I’ll use, for an example, Old Massett Health. We are developing our own programs under the band structure, which we all know is a federal jurisdiction. But with the programs that we’re able to start under Old Massett band, we are really limited with budgeting. When we want to have effective programs, we’re short on funds because the federal government can only give us a certain amount.

One of the things that I find we have struggled with is competitive wage scales. We want to have good workers. We do, fortunately, have really good workers who come and work in mental health for us within Old Massett Health. Unfortunately, at times, we lose them because we don’t have the competitive wage scale.

We’re working within the bounds of our federal jurisdiction, but we need help to fill that gap. Where do we get that from? How do we make sure that our federal and provincial governments are working together to ensure that small communities and municipalities are not falling short? At that time, then it turns into a competitive thing. We don’t want to compete with things, as Astrid had mentioned earlier. We want to encourage working together. We want to encourage betterment.

Mr. Chair, if you can clarify with me: are we going in a circle? There are other mental health issues that I would like to lead into as well.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Sure.

Devin, did you have a comment?

D. Rachar: Just a quick one.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yes, then we can come back. That would be fine.

D. Rachar: I wanted to address the position that Nicholas brought up of some sort of wellness worker. The problem here is that that position would be through MCFD. The MCFD here — I don’t want to speak to whether it’s founded or not — has a bad reputation. That’s why Astrid mentioned earlier that we would especially like to see youth mental health and addictions counselling or counsel work done through the health authority, essentially. That’s just an issue that I wanted to bring up with that position being funded through MCFD.

A. Young: Health, mental health, rehab treatment, addictions, drug dealers, drug transporters — all of that rolls into mental health. Maybe it comes from a different department other than Mental Health within the province. But as to what we need to really get a hand on, and how we do it, I’m not sure.

The struggle is with drug dealers and people who transport drugs, who all play a role in the well-being of our communities and our people. We have people who are addicted to drinking. Drinking is not illegal. We have people who are addicted to crack cocaine. We have people who are addicted to cocaine.

[2:40 p.m.]

What I would like to see is a lot more security in transportation, whether it’s B.C. Ferries or Pacific Coastal. One of the struggles that we have here on Haida Gwaii, as far as drug dealers go, is that I can go to Pacific Coastal and fly down to Vancouver and come back home through Pacific Coastal with 50 pounds of cocaine. There’s no security at Pacific Coastal.

We are a fishing community. We’re surrounded by water. We have fishermen come and go. We don’t have people coming to look on the fishing boats, and we don’t have people at B.C. Ferries looking to see if anybody’s transporting drugs. We’re prone. We are in a place where we are an easy target to be vulnerable and susceptible to street drugs.

Where does that money come from to ensure that we’re doing what we can to make sure that we don’t have drugs coming to Haida Gwaii so that we can continue to work towards addressing mental health concerns, addressing depression, addressing addictions?

Something else that I would like to see on Haida Gwaii for treatment and rehab, as far as health goes, is a cultural facility, knowing that people who have struggled with addictions and mental health issues have relied on culture. They don’t even have to be Haida, per se, to turn to a culture to be able to find themselves again, if you will.

There have been people who come to Haida Gwaii and never realized there was a thing called a connection. For whatever reason, they were comforted with the culture that was shared with them, whether they went for a hike in the forest or whether they climbed up Tow Hill. That’s labelled as a provincial park. They have Haida stories all the way up the trail to indicate how long we’ve been around.

Mental health really ties in to a whole lot of different things. Mental health is so dynamic, just like the brain itself. So how many different programs do we have out there, and how do we make sure that we can have access to them at the drop of a dime? It seems so simple, but we know the dynamics behind it.

How do we put the everyday life…? We’re talking about B.C. Ferries. The statistics aren’t going to capture everything. So how are we supposed to determine a solid number for mental health and how to access that funding when we know it shows in so many different ways?

On Haida Gwaii, we’ve had our…. A couple of our students did a mental health rally, and they called it “Kick the stigma.” It must have been about four or five years ago. They got a group of students together, and they used the colours lime green and yellow, much like they use the light-coloured pink for breast cancer. They used lime green and yellow to kick the stigma on mental health so that people know that they’re not suffering alone, because it’s not a visual…. You can’t see it. You can’t look at somebody and say: “Oh, they’re suffering from mental health issues.” How do we support our youth in mental health like that?

Then there’s the thing that went viral on Facebook. It went to many places, with the semicolon. It’s called Me Too. The period meaning you wanted to end your life, and the comma meaning: “I realized I still have a story to tell, and you are not alone.” I see a number of people who have the semicolon tattooed on their body. They wear it on a piece of clothing, or they show it on their social media.

There are tons of things out there that indicate that mental health is a big issue. How do we…? We need to have the funding accessible, whether it’s through prevention programs, whether it’s through building a new treatment centre, whether it’s through implementing the basics of what mental health looks like in the school curriculum.

[2:45 p.m.]

That’s what our students wanted to do in our high school as well. They wanted to implement in the curriculum what mental health really looks like. “Okay. What is a healthy mind? How do I determine what a happy me looks like?” The bare basics. You don’t have to have a psychology degree to teach what mental health is, the fundamentals of knowing what a healthy brain is.

It’s really hard to put a definite number on what we need for mental health. It overlays with literacy. It overlays with our cultural programs that we have in the summertime, which we call prevention programs. It builds itself into our schools with physical activity. It builds itself into our social development program, where people might be limited on funding to have healthy food.

Mental health is affected by everything. What’s a solid answer? Those are some of the things that come to my mind when it comes to mental health and having funding accessible. It ties into everything. We are in a small community, and we’re culturally inclined that everything depends on everything else. It’s just like the circle that we have on the emblem on the floor. We have the eagle and the raven in the centre, and that’s the circle of life all around where the family, the children and everybody holds each other together. Everything is intertwined.

Mental health is something that definitely reaches every aspect of funding programs that are available throughout the province and Canada.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Adeana. That was very well said. I appreciate that.

Brandon, I think you had something to add.

B. Kallio: Speaking on this point of mental health and addictions. I think a more specific need…. It’s been addressed a couple of times. What are they called, for women who are…? Women’s shelters. I think there’s a definite need for recovery houses, similar to a halfway house but not as stringent. It’s not like you’re locked up. But a safe place for them to go whether they’re coming out of treatment or whether they’re in transition.

There are borderline guys who are, as an example, addicted to alcohol, and they’re a little bit transient. They come back home, and they get a little break. Then they get partying again, and they wear out their welcome. So then they just head back, and they go hit the streets back down in East Van. There’s no real place for them to sit and think about their next manoeuvre or wait for that counselling to come up, if they’re on a list.

If there’s a recovery house, I think that would alleviate that vicious cycle. Some of them will come out of a treatment centre. It ties into the B.C. Ferries schedule. They’ll end up having to stay in Prince Rupert for one or two nights. Without that support and going directly into, say, a recovery house or something, they’re out there on the street in Prince Rupert. They run into their old buddies, and then it’s just right back to square one. You’re feeding into that system.

By itself, it’s not that effective, but if we had a little bit more support with this recovery house, then you get them back on their feet, where they have additional work programs. You get the guy back to their own self-sufficiency. That’s a big step in recovery, and that’s the part where we’re lacking. Whether we tie it into cultural centres where these people could go in and access different activities involving our culture…. But also even just a place for them to stay, whether it’s one, two, three nights, a week, two weeks.

[2:50 p.m.]

If it came in under B.C. Housing or…. Thinking outside the box, we’ve got to put our heads around getting funds and getting people well again — not just lip service or adding to current treatment centres, adding millions of dollars to something that’s already there, but creating something new to help carry those to the next level and bring true recovery to the people in need. Not just saying: “Well, we sent you to treatment, and it didn’t work. Now you’re on your own.” That’s happened to a lot of different guys that are just walking the street in our town here.

B. D’Eith (Chair): You’re kind of talking about a gap in the spectrum of housing. So you might have regular housing, and then you might have a detox and a rehab. But then there isn’t that transitional or supportive housing, that bit in there, so that people get back into market housing.

B. Kallio: Supportive housing, yes. It’s like a safety issue too. If you have an alcoholic or a drug user, and then with limited housing — say, like even just on reserve or uptown — having them come into a young family…. So not only the youth but also the older chronic alcoholics — they don’t really have a place to go. You’ve got to be open-minded, and you want to help them out, but you also don’t want to add to that cycle of having that affected person, the alcoholic or the drug user, in a household with young, impressionable minds.

I think that a crucial step is just getting this recovery house in some way.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Brandon.

S. Furstenau: Thank you, Brandon and Adeana. My question is: what would you say the trend is on these issues — on mental health, on addiction? Is it a trend that’s been getting worse? Is it a trend that’s been improving? What’s the trend?

B. Kallio: It’s not a real spike, but it’s consistently rising. The lack of space in the workforce for affordable living sort of tends to lead guys into this helplessness where they turn to drugs and alcohol. That sort of cycle feeds into the drug dependency.

You see younger people with the lack of skills, like in the labour market, with a lack of training. So then they turn to whatever they can do, hustling around — whether they’re wheeling and dealing drugs or they just go out and party and collect the welfare and take what comes, take the odd job.

I see more of our young people…. I go down to East Van. I visit, and I see old friends. There are old ones who have passed along, but now there are younger ones, and it’s sort of a steady flow. It’s not like it’s a huge wave of people going down there to take up living in East Van, but it’s a continual sort of migration that way when they run out of options here, when they think they’ve worn out their welcome in their hometown. They shouldn’t really ever have to feel that way.

A. Young: I don’t want to give a guess on what the trend is. In the position that I have and the people that I’ve seen…. I want to come back to what was said earlier, that you don’t have to have a degree to be counselling somebody. There’ve been a number of times where I’ve offered, personally, just to be a designated driver. “Do you want to go somewhere?” “Call me if you need a ride.” “How are you doing?”

It’s time. People who are struggling with mental health want time. That’s all they want. There are many different scenarios with drugs and alcohol. Some people maybe are not even into doing drugs, but they don’t have money, so they need a way to get money. They get caught up in the wrong crowd, and they end up being a transporter. Maybe they’re not even addicted to it, but they need money to buy food for the next two weeks.

[2:55 p.m.]

With all those addictions and mental health and things leading up to people losing themselves, it brings me to a grander scale of thinking of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls. We don’t know their stories. They got lost somewhere. Maybe they lived a healthy life and wanted to go visit a family but had no means of getting there, so they hitchhiked.

I’m grateful for this hearing to be here on Haida Gwaii because we are isolated. And I do get frustrated in the role that I play for having to travel all the time. Maybe you’ll get a bigger turnout in Vancouver, but you’re not going to hear my real problems on Haida Gwaii.

I fit under some other small, little category that was established — who knows when? I’m this big voice who’s crying and banging my hands on the table, saying: “I need help with this.” It’s a small problem on the grander scale of the big cities in B.C., but it’s a huge problem in small Haida Gwaii.

With the recovery homes, I think that would be an amazing thing on Haida Gwaii. This is the biggest thing that I had mentioned — wanting to maintain our culture and have it readily available and people to understand what it is. If we had recovery homes where people can come back, if they were at rehab or in treatment, and dry out and go through all the steps to make themselves better…. If we had recovery homes — maybe not necessarily in town, maybe across the inlet — so that they can go get their own food…. They can go get clams off the beach. They could go shoot a deer and jar it up and keep maintaining because that’s what we had done to get to where we are today.

I think out of all that, the biggest thing to help us with that is to help us find ways to reduce the amount of drugs being transported to and from Haida Gwaii, small communities where we don’t have security. If I go through Air Canada, I have to go through X-rays, and they’ve got a metal detector and all this other stuff. It’s way too easy for us here to have all those street drugs brought in. It’s way too easy.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Adeana.

N. Simons: Thank you for those comments. Really appreciate hearing your perspective. I know that you worked in the Northwest Territories for a long time, and there are some dry communities. There are some communities that have tried to make band council resolutions that limit the ability for people to have certain products.

I think the security that you go to when you’re not crossing a border doesn’t actually detect illegal substances, just dangerous substances. So we continue to have to find ways of, I think, working on the prevention side, while we still try to enforce the laws that exist.

I know there are some frustrations. People in smaller com­munities often say: “We know exactly who’s dealing the drugs. We don’t know why the police can’t charge or can’t stop it from happening.” It’s often a challenge.

All our communities — we’re struggling with the fentanyl crisis, the opioid overdose crisis in many parts of our province.

[3:00 p.m.]

Your voice is being heard, and I want you to know that. The committee was really pleased that we’d be able to come here and hear the message that you have and that other smaller and remote communities may share the kind of concerns you’ve raised. So thank you very much.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Nicholas.

It’s been two hours, and I appreciate everybody’s had the chance to say a few words. You know, we’ve had a chance to talk about ferries. We’ve had a chance to talk about arts and culture. We’ve had a chance to talk about mental health and addictions and some of the challenges that the local communities are facing in terms of drugs and drug addiction.

I really appreciate all of the comments that have been made. It was really nice for us, because we were actually able to get more in depth with some of these conversations than in some of our other meetings, which is very nice. It’s a change for us. It was a really nice format for us to do this. We appreciate all of you coming and talking.

Before we close off, though, I would really like it…. If there are any other issues that haven’t been brought up, or anything, this would be a great time, if you wouldn’t mind. Just get it on the record. We’re recording this, and it would give us a chance to…. You know, if we don’t say it out loud, then it’s very difficult for us to address it.

Brandon, if you had any other issue, that would be wonderful.

B. Kallio: On a completely different note, that has to do with our cultural values but also has to do with B.C. provincial parks…. On the sign it says Naikoon Provincial Park, which is based on the name of my family, my clan. I come from Rose Spit. My chief is her husband, my uncle Elvis.

I wanted to speak to you. Moving in the direction of, the way of, reconciliation, maybe perhaps — it has been my thought and probably a few others’ — building a big house on our territory and having a formality, whether it’s asking permission or giving the name back, through the Naikoon clan, the Niakun Kii Gawaay clan. We come from Rose Spit down the east coast. That’s one of the oldest known Haida-established villages, from way back.

I think it would be beneficial in all aspects, as far as uniting all Haida — Skidegate, Masset — and part of reconciliation between the province and Haida — not only our clan but the people of Masset, Skidegate. Also, it just would be incredible to be able to have a ceremony in a proper big house as opposed to a gymnasium. I don’t know who I would be in contact with to have a further discussion on developing this idea.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Minister Scott Fraser would probably be the best place to start with that, I would think, or maybe even….

N. Simons: This committee.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Or this committee. You’ve just said it, so thank you.

But in terms of after. Because one of the things about this committee that’s important to know is that we work together and come up with recommendations, and those recommendations go to the various ministries, but the work that you’re doing has to be ongoing. This is the beginning of a dialogue, but it’s certainly important not to just stop here. It’s important to keep going with these discussions and to reach out to your MLAs or to the right ministers to keep this discussion going.

We’ll do the best we can to get as many ideas out, but we make recommendations; we actually don’t decide, per se. So it’s important. But we can, as a group, make recommendations.

I appreciate what you’re saying. Thank you for that.

B. Kallio: I’ll just leave my email. Then I can get everybody’s contact information, and I could harass you. [Laughter.]

[3:05 p.m.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): I really appreciate the thoughts. Reconciliation is a very big commitment. In fact, when the Premier wrote letters to each of the ministers…. Each minister in every ministry has to take truth and reconciliation and the United Nations declaration for Indigenous people into account in all of the decisions that are being made, and put that lens on everything, which I think is a good start. But it’s a start.

A. Egger: Astrid Egger. I am passing on a concern from council member Sabrina Frazier. She was unable to make it here. She’s an RMT, and she has people to work on.

She had the portfolio, until recently, of being the library representative, and libraries have a really important function beyond just loaning out books — building community, you know. Her recommendation is that the ministry where libraries are funded out of should be Education rather than a catch-all “where are we this month or where are we with the next government,” that it should be a stable ministry, that the role of libraries be understood as such.

B. D’Eith (Chair): I think the libraries are already under the Ministry of Education. However, I believe when we’ve been talked to in the past by presenters, the ask is often that there be a separate line item. There used to be a line item for libraries, and there isn’t. At least that’s…. I don’t want to put words in your mouth…

A. Egger: It’s actually Sabrina’s mouth.

B. D’Eith (Chair): …but I would imagine that is the comment — that it’s not just part of the general budget, that there’s an actual line item. We’ve heard that a number of times. Thank you.

A. Egger: Good. Thank you. Yeah. I think she was really passionate about that.

J. Fraser: I quickly want to say that I noticed that there’s one submission here. It has the No. 3 on it. My submission actually has three parts to it. There’s 1, 2 and 3. I think they’ve been split up, which is okay.

My last little plug for Sandspit, because why try to help save a community of 300 people. There are lots of people in B.C. But I want you to know, also, that we have a Transport Canada airport in Sandspit, and we are all working ex­tremely hard to make the whole community work.

Our volunteer fire department covers the Transport Canada airport, and our ambulance covers the Transport Canada airport. If anyone’s flying in, charter flights, fishermen — the sport-fishing industry is quite big here in the summer — Air Canada scheduled flights, search and rescue, reconnaissance planes, fisheries planes…. There are all sorts of planes that fly in here, and they probably don’t realize that they’re going to be saved by us. If we don’t have a community there, then, well, I guess Transport Canada would have to facilitate that and put together at least a fire department.

We are really strategically located as an airport there, because for any of the search and rescue on the west coast, all of the bigger aircraft from Comox can land in Sandspit. We have the fuel supplies for them, which come across on the Kwuna.

We’re also the gateway to Gwaii Haanas. Anyone who’s a tourist coming across that wants to go down into the park, they have to come across on the Kwuna or fly in from Sandspit.

Then, other things we do, we really are trying very hard to keep our community going. We’ve started a Sandspit Community Society. With that, we run…. Well, it’s voluntary — like, volunteer management — and then we hire people to run a visitor info centre at the airport. We run the hotel in town. We run the restaurant in town and the bar in town. We run the harbour. We run the golf course, and we also run our community hall.

There are so many things we’re doing to keep our little community going. But I think the biggest one that the world would be concerned about is fire and ambulance — fire protection at the airport and ambulance as well. I want you to really be clear on that.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks, Joni. It’s similar to the statistics comment, in that the statistics say one thing, but you have to go behind the statistics to understand what the actual story is. It’s not just the numbers. Thank you for that.

[3:10 p.m.]

F. Davis: Freda, again, Old Masset village council. In regards to reconciliation, my husband also was thinking about a memorial wall for all those ones that have passed on within residential schools. He had a binder made, but we’ve given it out to so many political governments and people that we don’t have any more. Hoping to get some sort of funding to be able to put up a memorial wall in regards to reconciliation, and we’re hoping somebody could come to us in regards to maybe….

We’ve already got everything planned. We’ve got the costs. We’ve got the whole thing done, if somebody could just give me an email that I could forward, something from the computer to whoever.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Sure. No problem.

F. Davis: Because we would love to see something put up to recognize anybody that’s passed on.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you for that.

F. Davis: Another thing, too, is a swimming pool for the island. We’ve been fundraising and fundraising. We applied for a licence, but we were given the wrong licence, and we were told we weren’t allowed to do a Chase the Ace.

B.C. is the only province across Canada that does not give out a licence for Chase the Ace to fundraise.

Interjection.

F. Davis: Chase the Ace is where you buy tickets to put your name forward to maybe get a chance to pick a card. If you pick the ace, you win what’s in the pot.

N. Simons: It goes up every time?

F. Davis: It goes up. It’s a progressive 50-50. That’s what it really is.

We’re having trouble just even getting an A licence as well — waiting and waiting months now, since April, just to get a response to get an A licence. You shouldn’t have to wait so long.

This island lost anything for the youth. So we would like to try to build a pool big enough for the whole island to access, and we would like to be able to finish off our Chase the Ace. The government is threatening to take what money away that we do have. We shouldn’t be worrying about that when it comes to the youth.

B. Favreau: Freda, I just read a few days ago…. There’s a press release from the provincial government. There’s new funding, and I think Old Massett should tap on that. It’s for infrastructure. That’s a big one, and swimming pool is one of them, in terms of recreation. I think you really need to tap on that. Apparently, it’s only one application per community. So if a swimming pool…. I am game for that.

Just to let the committee know. On the island, we do not have any recreation infrastructure. No hockey rink. No swimming pool. No — whatever you can think of. No…. What do you call that rock thing, again?

Some Voices: Curling.

B. Favreau: Thank you. That rock thing, the iron or whatever it is.

Yeah, we have nothing. No bowling alley. So if you want to talk about mental health, that’s another piece, right?

F. Davis: It would be nice to see something for our youth to deal with. We travel to the middle of the island during the spring and summer for the kids to play soccer, but that’s about it. We don’t really have anything here for them.

If, by chance, they go away, even if it’s just a medical trip, the biggest thing for these kids to do is to go swimming and go skating. So it would be nice to see something on this island for them. We shouldn’t have to be…. It’s going to take us years to raise money just to get that pool, so it would be nice to see something here for the whole island.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yeah, there was an announcement recently about the bilateral federal-provincial infrastructure for those types of recreational facilities.

[3:15 p.m.]

A. Young: Are you interested in hearing what Chase the Ace is?

B. D’Eith (Chair): Sure.

A. Young: Chase the Ace is started with a deck of cards. It’s up to the person who’s holding the game to determine whether or not they want to utilize the jokers that are in the deck.

You have a one-in-52 chance or a one-in-54 chance, at the very beginning, to buy a ticket. It’s up to the person selling the tickets to determine the price. Let’s just say I am going to use a deck of 52 cards. I am choosing the ace of hearts to be the lucky card. I’m going to sell tickets at $5 a ticket for seven days.

At the end of the seven days, I’m going to put all the tickets into a barrel. I’m going to draw one name. From the ticket sales, 50 percent goes to the fundraiser. Let’s say I pulled your name for the draw. Then 25 percent of it will go to you. The other 25 percent of it will go into the growing jackpot.

I’m going to shuffle the cards, or I’m going to put them in envelopes, however I decide to keep that ace of hearts a secret. You have one chance to find the ace of hearts. If you don’t find the ace of hearts, we discard the card that you pulled, and we’re going to do another draw, the same style. It rolls over and rolls over and rolls over until the ace of hearts is found.

To me, that sounds like a 50-50 where half of the 50 goes 25, 25. But the province doesn’t recognize that as a 50-50 because one side of the 50 percent is getting split into two others. That’s how come Freda was saying it’s basically a progressive 50-50.

With the gaming enforcement branch being on top of us, we got a letter from the gaming enforcement branch saying: “We were made aware of your Chase the Ace draw that you are doing illegally. We don’t have legislation to tell you that it’s illegal, but it’s illegal because there’s no legislation. Should you continue or volunteers continue to sell tickets, you will suffer consequences of fees up to $500 a day and potential jail time.”

We have a bunch of community members who are volunteering their time to say: “Yes, we want a swimming pool.” We have a lot of members who are interested — some interested in the gambling portion of it, some interested in what the raffle is for, to put towards a swimming pool. But we’ve been on hold. Since we’ve gotten the notice from the gaming enforcement branch, we stopped. We don’t want to jeopardize the money that community members and other people outside community have put towards it.

If we can have people really help us legalize Chase the Ace in B.C., it would be fantastic. And making applying for gaming licences, that stuff, easier, I guess.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great.

G. Martin: That’s very informative. I always wondered.

Would that be under the Attorney General? Who’s in charge of B.C. Lottery?

B. D’Eith (Chair): The Attorney General.

G. Martin: So it’s David Eby. Okay. It’s hard on your neck. He’s over 6 foot 5, but he’s a very, very accommodating gentleman. So yeah, write to David Eby, the Attorney General of B.C.

F. Davis: Jennifer Rice brought this to his attention. All we really want to do is do the last draw. We want one draw to do and get rid of what money in cards we have from people who have bought before we even stopped it. And it was a no.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. I wanted to thank everyone for participating today. It was a little bit of a different format for us, and I think it was a great success.

We really appreciate being able to really dig in to some of these issues. Normally, we only get a few minutes, so we really appreciate it.

It would be really great — if you wouldn’t mind, anybody who’s here — if we could all get one picture together. That would be really great. We’d really love that.

Before we go, could I have a motion to adjourn?

Motion approved.

The committee adjourned at 3:20 p.m.