The committee met at 12:33 p.m.

Election of Chair and Deputy Chair

J. Arril (Committee Clerk): Good morning, Members. For those of you who don’t know me, my name is Jennifer Arril, and I’ll be the Clerk to the committee.

This is Lisa Hill, and she’ll be the committee’s lead research analyst.

As this is the first meeting of the Select Standing Committee on Agriculture, Fish and Food, it is my honour to oversee the election of the Chair. Do we have any nominations for the Chair?

D. Routley: I would like to nominate Ronna-Rae Leonard.

J. Arril (Committee Clerk): All right. Thank you.

Ronna-Rae, do you accept the nomination?

R. Leonard: Yes.

J. Arril (Committee Clerk): Any further nominations? Any further nominations? One last time, any further nominations?

The question is Ronna-Rae Leonard as Chair.

Motion approved.

J. Arril (Committee Clerk): Congratulations.

[R. Leonard in the chair.]

R. Leonard (Chair): Thank you very much.

Now it’s time for us to elect the Deputy Chair. Are there any nominations from the floor?

[12:35 p.m.]

I. Paton: I’d like to nominate Jackie Tegart as Deputy Chair.

R. Leonard (Chair): Thank you very much.

Any further nominations? Any further nominations? For the last time, are there any further nominations for the Deputy Chair?

Seeing none, first of all, do you accept the nomination?

J. Tegart: I do. Thank you.

R. Leonard (Chair): The question is Jackie Tegart taking the role of Deputy Chair.

Motion approved.

R. Leonard (Chair): Congratulations, Deputy Chair.

J. Tegart (Deputy Chair): Thank you.

Committee Terms of Reference
and Meeting Schedule

R. Leonard (Chair): Okay. Now we’ll move on to the third item on our agenda, which is the consideration of the committee’s terms of reference.

Now, I know that the Clerk’s office has sent this along to everybody. The focus of our committee work for this time is with local, small-scale meat production. We have an opportunity to travel to different communities to look at a bunch of questions that have been put forward by the minister for us to take out to the community.

I just wanted to see if anybody has any comments they’d like to make about the terms of reference at this time.

I. Paton: On the week of May 21, the break week. I don’t know what the committee’s feelings are on that. I usually try and do a little vacation on that May long weekend. I suppose the week of the 22nd, moving forward, would be okay with me, but I think that from the 18th to the 21st, I’d be tied up.

Do we have any ideas of where we would be travelling to for some of these meetings? Or are we not sure yet?

R. Leonard (Chair): Well, that’s where you’re getting ahead of us a little bit, but it’s good you’ve got that forethought. Thank you for that. Starting May 22 is your preference.

I. Paton: Correct.

D. Barnett: My concern is that the first report is supposed to be done by October 1. I think that’s a very short time frame, when you look at the size of this province and the agriculture and fish issues out there. I would like to know the rationale to have the first report done by October 1.

N. Simons: I think it’s just the report on the first item of the terms of reference, which is the specific small-scale meat regulations issue. That’s when our first report, on that issue, will be due.

D. Barnett: Well, a committee has gone out, talked to these people and missed half the people in rural British Columbia that have the concern about this. I’ve been very engaged in this, as you know, since way before the last election. This is a very large issue in small-town, rural British Columbia. I have stacks of letters and things like that because I’ve been so engaged in it. I would hate to think that this new committee now will have to take the recommendation of the committee that went out there and missed half of the people in rural British Columbia that have big concerns with classes D and E.

R. Leonard (Chair): I think our intention here is to be as inclusive as we can — to capture, perhaps, what has been missed.

R. Singh: I just wanted to let you know, too, that from May 18 to 21, I am not available.

D. Routley: I’m worse. I’m May 18 to 25. Maybe I can…. I don’t know if things are refundable, but I’m not going to be a popular guy tonight.

N. Simons: You’re already popular.

D. Routley: Well, I’d lose a lot of my popularity with Leanne tonight if I tell her I’m not going.

R. Leonard (Chair): It’s called happy wife, happy life.

[12:40 p.m.]

A. Olsen: The second and third weeks of June, we’ve got a number of committee meetings. Well, we’ve got the Rental Housing Task Force, which is trying to plan dates. As well, I’ve got seven town halls in my riding.

R. Leonard (Chair): When? The week of June 4?

A. Olsen: The weeks of June 18 and June 25.

J. Tegart (Deputy Chair): I’m hoping that we’re not going to spend the next half-hour looking at calendars and that that can actually go out and people can block off when they’re available and not available.

What I would like to do is get a sense from the Chair of the scope of work that you think we’re going to need to do within this time frame, because we want to be as inclusive and do it as fulsomely as we can. Then that will direct us for how much time we need.

If we are simply looking at abattoirs and meat production, that gives us a certain time frame and that sort of thing. Or are we looking at much bigger or…? I’m unclear as to exactly what we’re going to do in this first report, even after reading this. And I assure you, I read it.

R. Leonard (Chair): I’m sure you did. Has everyone gotten this piece as well, this one here with the map?

Okay. I met with the Clerk’s office. We looked at where we might be able to travel and what we’re actually tasked with, which is on this page here. It has some very specific questions that should help focus the discussion, to make sure that we are talking about local, small-scale meat production and the challenges that our rural and remote communities have in being able to service those local communities around the slaughter and sale of local foods.

I see you, Donna. I’ll just finish up with what I’m saying. Then I’ll give you the floor.

When we were looking at the map, which is on the other side, and trying to…. Those tiny, tiny dots are the class D and E slaughter licences. We were able to pick out a number of different communities.

I know, for instance, in my community, the challenge of not having access to abattoirs is resulting in some different practices. I understand, too, that culturally there are different practices — for instance, the selling of an animal and those consumers then doing the slaughtering themselves. That takes us outside of the licence areas, because I know the Comox Valley isn’t one of the rural remote communities. But they don’t have access to…. There is an abattoir, but it has limited capacity.

It’s almost like the world is our oyster, in terms of where we might go looking. The opportunity is, if we can get to each of the regions, for people and various stakeholders to be able to engage with us to capture both licensed areas and unlicensed areas so we can start to address the challenges that are out there. I hope I’ve answered that more fully.

D. Barnett: I think it would be very helpful to us…. I do know that the abattoir association of British Columbia has a market on where and how you can build abattoirs. I know that for a fact.

I think it would be very helpful to us if we could get the rules and the regulations that are there for the abattoirs — where you can build them, how far. You have to be two-and-a-half hours away, driving, in order to have a class E licence. If there’s a class B or A two-and-a-half hours closer to you, you can’t have one, which is causing massive problems. The capacity in a lot of these As and Bs…. They’re full. They don’t have any extra room. We’re losing a couple of others.

[12:45 p.m.]

There are all kinds of problems within the whole slaugh­ter­house regulations and rules that we need to take a really, really good look at. I think it would be great if we could get all of that sent to us as soon as possible.

R. Leonard (Chair): We are asking for a briefing from the ministry, to give us a verbal presentation so that we will have the details that we need.

Interjection.

R. Leonard (Chair): I’ll catch you in a second.

N. Simons: I was just going to agree with Donna that it would be nice for all of us to sort of get a tutorial on what we are asking.

R. Leonard (Chair): I’ll take it that the idea of getting some actual documentation in advance will help us get ready quickly.

D. Barnett: From the abattoir association too, because I know they have a strong hold on this.

R. Leonard (Chair): Okay. That’s another thing about building the list of who we think are the stakeholders in all of this. And if people have ideas about how we can get the word out so that people will engage with this process.

N. Simons: I was going to ask if we were going to engage in other forms of consultation: an on-line questionnaire, a request for input through letters or emails or what have you. Are we going to consider doing any social media that solicits input from people? We may not get to every community, but we may get close to some, and they’ll know about it and then know how to provide input.

R. Leonard (Chair): Right. I’ll turn it over to Jennifer to explain what she has worked out.

J. Arril (Committee Clerk): Just some suggestions on a potential approach. We could do a full public consultation. In addition to public hearings in identified communities, we could use our on-line consultation portal to open it up. People could provide written submissions that way, which would also be shared with the committee.

We can work with the Ministry of Agriculture to seek stakeholder lists from them and send out invitations to participate either in the public hearings or to provide written submissions. We can absolutely advertise in print and on social media. We could do other forms of advertisement, like radio advertisement. There are certainly lots of options for the committee to choose from and decide.

J. Tegart (Deputy Chair): One of the things to keep in mind, of course, is we have many places that don’t have Internet. In trying to reach out to all, we need to keep that in mind.

The other thing that comes to mind…. I’m not someone who has animals and knows the season and when is a busy time and when isn’t. We need to be respectful of the people whom we are asking input from. When we go out and we want a response from farmers and they’re out in their fields until 11 o’clock at night, the chances of getting a response are pretty slim.

I don’t know what the seasonal activities are or when it’s busiest or what this looks like in the real person’s life. But I would hope that someone can give us some insight into that so that we’re respectful of the people that we actually want to participate in the process.

R. Leonard (Chair): It’s a challenge, because really, the only time the farmer isn’t busy is when we’re sitting in the House.

D. Barnett: Actually, you picked a good time, because most of the people that I deal with, a lot of them, slaughter in September, October, November. Then their calving season for all the animals is usually February, March and April. So the window is now.

M. Morris: Before haying season.

A. Olsen: Thanks, Donna. Far more expertise on the life cycle of the rancher, so I appreciate that.

N. Simons: It’s the animal’s life cycle we’re talking about.

I. Paton: My comment is I agree with the terms of reference — that one of the most important things we can do is get a presentation or briefing, as Nicholas said, from ministry staff to bring us up to date as to what’s happening.

[12:50 p.m.]

The most-read farm and ranching newspaper is Country Life in B.C. A small ad in that might alert people in the abattoir business to write in. I think it’s important, if we can get all the stakeholders, even if it’s just a backyard guy who’s in the Kootenays…. If they can be aware of this select standing committee, they can send in written material or email us their thoughts, so we can start pulling together the pros and cons of the big guys and the little guys in the business.

R. Leonard (Chair): Right, exactly.

I. Paton: Oh, one other thing. This map. If we could get a map that’s just a little better. The dots — it’s very difficult to tell where the class Ds and Es are. I don’t know.

R. Leonard (Chair): We’ll work on that. I know it was a challenge to enlarge it. Perhaps, even on line….

Adam. And then we’ll move on to just talking about where people feel that we should be travelling to.

A. Olsen: Actually, this is a good segue, then. Depending on what the stakeholder list looks like…. I don’t know what the mix of public consultation compared to industry consultation is that we’re going to be having here. I’m wondering if there’s some analysis that could be done, depending on what that stakeholder consultation looks like, and whether or not it is of value for those people to come here or for us, as a group, to go to them — from a fiscal perspective.

We’ve got the facilities here to have the hearings. If what we’re doing is having public consultation and input into abattoirs, then of course we’ve got to go out and go around. But if what we’re asking for are people that are working in this on a daily basis, that this is their life, and the list is relatively compact, let’s say, then perhaps it might be worthwhile for us not to be packing up all of this and bringing it out to the communities.

I would just like to know what my colleagues’ thoughts are on that.

R. Leonard (Chair): That sounds like something to take under advisement, for sure.

We’re starting to run out of time. I’ll just let you know that Jackie and I are going to meet a little later today. We can maybe set up a process to make sure that we get everybody’s input. We have to nail down the locations before we can open up the opportunity for public comment and start to slot in those appointments or times for people to engage with us.

M. Morris: Further to what Adam was saying, everybody that’s involved in this industry throughout rural B.C. is very busy. A lot of them are raising animals themselves, and to take the time out and come down here…. I think we would be received in a better light if we went to them and, collectively, everybody would come in to certain locations. I think we’d have more credibility with that.

D. Barnett: I agree with Mike. And we don’t all have to go everywhere. We could break up into little groups, and we can bring back the information and have good dialogue, sitting at this table, on what we found.

J. Tegart (Deputy Chair): To Donna’s point, when we look at schedules, it may be that, as we put together a travel schedule, it doesn’t work for everybody, but when you can, that’s great.

The other thing that I would hope is…. I get a sense when I talk to people in my area that they want to know that the people in Victoria who are affecting their daily life have actually seen where they live. So if we find ourselves in Vanderhoof or Prince George and we don’t have a full schedule, maybe we can go out to somebody’s place or talk to…. We can combine some things.

My experience with the Finance Committee is that as gruelling as the schedule is, people appreciate that you actually came to their area. So if we can leave it open so that we can learn more as the decision-makers…. I think we should look at it in both ways.

R. Leonard (Chair): So you’re talking about site visits as well has having formal gatherings. Great.

Can I have a motion to go in camera so that we can start to talk about which communities might be….

D. Barnett: I move we go in camera.

Motion approved.

The committee continued in camera from 12:55 p.m. to 12:58 p.m.

[R. Leonard in the chair.]

N. Simons: Congratulations to the Clerk. It’s the first com­mittee that you’re in charge of.

Thank you, Lisa, for the work you will do for us and have already started to do.

I just want to say that I really appreciate my colleagues for being on this committee. I think it’s really important.

R. Leonard (Chair): Thanks for doing my job for me.

N. Simons: That just came into my head.

R. Leonard (Chair): I just want to say thank you, all, for stepping forward to be on this committee. I think it’s really an important challenge for us to meet, because we do all share a common interest here.

We’re going to bring the government to the people.

D. Barnett: I move adjournment.

Motion approved.

The committee adjourned at 12:58 p.m.