The committee met at 2 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bob D’Eith. I’m the MLA for Maple Ridge–Mission and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

I would like to begin with the recognition that our public hearing today is taking place on the traditional territory of the Lheidli T’enneh people.

We are an all-party parliamentary committee of the Legislative Assembly with a mandate to hold public consultations on the next provincial budget. The consultations are based on the budget consultation paper that was recently released by the Minister of Finance, which includes the following three questions. What are the top priorities to help make life more affordable in British Columbia? What service improvements should be given priority? What are your ideas, approaches and/or priorities for creating good jobs and building a sustainable economy in every corner of our province?

The committee is holding a number of public hearings in communities around the province. British Columbians can participate in these public hearings in person, via teleconference, video conference or skype.

There are numerous other ways that British Columbians can submit their ideas to the committee. They can complete an on-line survey or send us a written, audio or video submission. More information is available on the committee’s website at www.leg.bc.ca/cmt/finance. We invite all British Columbians to contribute to this important process. For those of you in attendance, we thank you for taking the time to participate today.

All public input will be carefully considered by the committee as it prepares its final report to the Legislative Assembly. Just a reminder that the deadline for submissions is 5 p.m. on Monday, October 16, 2017. The committee must issue a report by November 15, 2017, with its recommendations for the 2018 provincial budget.

Today’s meeting will consist of presentations from registered witnesses. Each presenter will have ten minutes to speak, followed by five minutes of very short questions from the committee. If time permits, we’ll also have an open-mike period at the end of the meeting, with five minutes allotted to each presenter. If you speak, please register with Stephanie at the information table.

All meetings are recorded and transcribed by Hansard Services, and a complete transcript of the proceeding will be posted on the committees website. These meetings are also broadcast as a live audio on our website.

Now I’d like to ask our members of the committee to introduce themselves.

S. Cadieux: Stephanie Cadieux, MLA for Surrey South.

T. Redies: Good afternoon. I’m Tracy Redies, the MLA for Surrey–White Rock.

P. Milobar: Good afternoon. Peter Milobar, MLA for Kamloops–North Thompson.

R. Leonard: Ronna-Rae Leonard, Courtenay-Comox.

J. Brar: Good afternoon. Jagrup Brar, Surrey-Fleetwood.

A. Weaver: Hello. Andrew Weaver, MLA for Oak Bay–Gordon Head.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Assisting the committee today are Susan Sourial and Stephanie Raymond from the Parliamentary Committees Office. Michael Baer and Amanda Heffelfinger from Hansard Services are also here to record the proceedings.

I’d also like to welcome Claudia Daniels, Clerk of Committees from the National Assembly of the Cooperative Republic of Guyana, who is here on a parliamentary staff exchange. Welcome.

That’s our introduction. Very happy to be here in Prince George.

First, I’d like to call up Geoscience B.C. We have Bruce Madu, Carlos Salas and Richard Truman. Nice to meet you.

Budget Consultation Presentations

GEOSCIENCE B.C.

C. Salas: Good afternoon. Thank you very much for having us today. We’re delighted to be here on Lheidli T’enneh and Carrier Nation traditional territory. I make this acknowledgement in recognition of an ongoing commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous people.

I’m Carlos Salas. I’m vice-president of energy. I’m here with our VP of minerals and mining, Bruce Madu, and Richard Truman, who is the director of external relations.

I would like to congratulate you all on your election and your re-elections.

[2:05 p.m.]

Thank you for taking this time to hear about Geoscience B.C. and our approach, priorities and ideas for contributing to a sustainable economy, with good jobs in every corner of the province.

This is why we chose to be here today, in Prince George, because much of the work that we do is in fact in the northern part of the province, in cities like Prince George and Fort St. John. We felt it appropriate to make our case here in the capital of the north.

For those who are not familiar with Geoscience B.C., not only is Geoscience B.C. a registered society, but we’re also a community that brings together the very best earth scientists from government, communities, First Nations and the resource sector. We are independent and transparent. We are a non-profit, and much of our funding comes from the province of B.C., something which we are extremely grateful for. We deliver as much as possible with external project funding.

We fund and produce evidence-based scientific data, earth science, that helps people like yourselves and other British Columbians make informed decisions relating to minerals and mining, oil and gas and geothermal work.

Our unique model means that everything we do is made publicly available for free, and that independence builds trust. Open data informs good decisions for our province, and it’s guided by communities, First Nations and the resource sector. We add new ideas, and we also add innovation into the mix, helping to create new commercial opportunities that are developed right here in B.C. and that can be sold in other places.

Let me give you some examples of some of the work that we’ve been doing. I’ll start off with minerals and mining. This was where we started, back in 2005. The model still works, and it continues to evolve. Mineral exploration and mining is critical to B.C.’s green revolution.

Did you know that Canada hosts 14 out of the 19 metals and minerals needed to produce a solar panel? In last year’s McKinsey Global Institute report, it showed and forecasted that copper demand will increase by 43 percent by the year 2035 to meet the new challenges and new needs needed by, for example, electric cars. These numbers remind us of the importance of minerals in powering this green revolution.

Part of our original mandate back in 2005 was to increase mineral exploration investment. By 2015, B.C. saw an increase — up to 21 percent of Canada’s mineral exploration, compared to 6 percent back in 2005. Now, we don’t say that all of that was due to Geoscience B.C., but we think that part of that success was due to our work.

Projects like the Search series of projects have done large aerial surveys to provide up-to-date data, which is eagerly waited for during the roundup conference in January. Our TREK program, called targeting resources for exploration and knowledge, uses a wide variety of geophysical, geochemical and other types of methods to better understand mineral deposits in the central Interior. Next week we’re going to have a panel and a technical review, where experts will be gathering in Vancouver to discuss the results. And yes, clipping treetops really does give us new and useful information.

As I have mentioned before, we like to add innovation to the mix. We’re finding new ways, for example, to use snow — to find mineral deposits by looking at snow and its composition. We’re supporting the first portable water-based coal-sampling process. Increasingly, we are asked to look at the entire life of a mine, and we’re getting into that right now.

We have strategic partnerships with the Canadian Mining Innovation Council to pull together water quality data from mines around B.C. into one central repository, a public database. We’re partnering with Genome B.C. to demonstrate how genomics can be used to understand and accelerate the mine reclamation process. As well, we’re meeting with community and resource sector requests.

These projects create independent science that relates to provincial government priorities, such as updating and improving the EA legislation, protecting water quality, northern innovation and increasing responsible exploration and development throughout the province.

[2:10 p.m.]

Geothermal is our newest area of focus. People always ask us about geothermal and what’s going on in the province, especially when we’re out talking to communities, because they see an opportunity to reduce operating costs with respect to energy in their communities. They also want to see something to drive economic development.

What we want is for geothermal to be common language when British Columbians talk about renewables. We want that discussion to be based on unbiased science. We are not a lottery group. I’ll underscore that. We have a technical advisory committee made up of seasoned experts. We want to give a balanced understanding with respect to the potential for geothermal energy generation and economic development from geothermal energy.

So far our projects have included things such as a geothermal assessment around Nazko cone, at the request of the Nazko First Nations, to understand the potential for its use in that area and also, hopefully, move away from diesel power.

We provided the province with a heat map, focusing on high potential sites to look at the viability of power generation. It also included a road map — a document for communities who are considering geothermal use — along with on-line workshops.

Lately we’ve been pulling together all the existing data around Mount Meager, which is near Whistler, into one place so that information can be openly available to everyone and good decisions can be made about that site, about its high potential for geothermal power generation.

We are sure there is much more to come in this area, with such strong community interest. At the moment, we’re looking at the possibility of a joint venture with Fort Nelson, in that area, to create power and utilize that effluent heat to also help power a greenhouse and help sufficiency with food in that region.

Next, I’d like to talk a bit about oil and gas. Our oil and gas–related work focuses mainly on measuring and reducing or mitigating the impacts of resource development. As with all our other work, there is a focus on providing unbiased science to regulatory bodies, communities and First Nations which will allow them to protect our air, land and water, and also help us meet our commitments with respect to climate change.

This data has always been available, but it is particularly relevant now with the commitment to have a scientific panel review hydraulic fracturing, because so much of our work focuses on things such as man-made earthquakes, seismicity or water quality, and also measuring greenhouse emissions.

A few examples. Right now, in greenhouse emissions, we have a project which is characterizing the natural gas deposits. It’s giving those natural gases what I call a postal code, an ID, so you know exactly where that molecule of gas came from in case there’s a leak.

Last week we had a project which we debuted — Dr. Weaver was there — where we partnered with NASA to bring technology used in the upcoming Mars mission to sniff gas, using drones. It’ll give us real-time measurements on greenhouse gas emissions. We’re developing this technology in B.C.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Carlos, I just wanted to say you’ve got about a minute.

C. Salas: I’ll go fast. I’ll move on to the last slide — our ask.

We’re here to provide budget recommendations on what is our ask. We received $10 million last year from the government, and we’re very thankful for that. Our burn rate’s about $6 million a year. Right now what we’re trying to do is go out to our communities of interest and get feedback as to where they think we should be working with respect to important projects. As far as an actual number, right now we can’t provide you that number because we’re in the process of getting feedback from our communities of interest, as yourselves.

We will be putting together a strategic plan which we’ll be floating out to all our partners, including yourselves. We’ll get feedback from that, and from that, we’ll be able to come up with a hard number as to new areas we can focus on with respect to providing unbiased science to work on some of these important issues that we see coming down the pike. Better science, better decisions.

[2:15 p.m.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Excellent. Thank you very much.

Just one thing: for any further written submissions, October 16 at 5 p.m. is the deadline. It’s important, I think, for the committee and for anything moving forward to have numbers if we can. I appreciate that it might be difficult at this juncture. You might be in the middle of whatever you’re doing, but any indication — a ballpark, something — is always very helpful.

C. Salas: We can provide that.

R. Leonard: Thank you for your presentation. I wanted to ask you something. It was sort of woven throughout your presentation, but it comes to a point at the end where you talk about leveraging funds. With the $10 million that you made reference to from the province, that certainly assures independence. Where do the partnerships come…? How do you maintain your independence throughout those partnerships?

C. Salas: We try to strive for independence throughout our work. We have independent technical advisory committees which guide us with respect to the projects that we pick. We have boards made up of First Nations and community representatives. They’re also providing some of the independence.

We certainly…. Our corporate governance also entails that technical advisory committees are removed from management and such. They provide direct input to the board, not through management.

R. Leonard: Can I just ask one more question?

B. D’Eith (Chair): Sure.

R. Leonard: You also mentioned that there’s data that you collect. Is that all voluntary from various enterprises that are in the industry, or how do you have quality assurance on your data collection?

C. Salas: We work with the best scientists, so we do work with probably the crème de la crème, so to speak. We ensure that they are professional geologists or engineers or scientists. We have a review process also, internally, to ensure that the work done is to the utmost standards.

A. Weaver: Just a couple of quick questions. Geoscience B.C. — was it established in 2005?

C. Salas: Yes.

A. Weaver: And what was its original mandate in 2005?

C. Salas: It was to enable metal and mining exploration at the time.

A. Weaver: Has that now moved beyond that original mandate to go beyond mineral and…?

C. Salas: Yes, right now it encompasses oil and gas and geothermal.

A. Weaver: When it was put in place, what was the injection of funding, provincially and federally versus industry?

C. Salas: Initially, we proceeded with $25 million.

A. Weaver: Of provincial money?

C. Salas: Correct. Ever since then, we’ve been injecting resource money, from the resource sector. We have had federal funding. We had regional trust groups helping out. Right now for every dollar we put in, we get about $1.47 leveraged.

A. Weaver: And you have requests for proposals from the community across British Columbia? I’m just asking: is there a group that determines what will be funded versus what will not be funded?

C. Salas: Yes, these are technical advisory committees. We have one from mineral and mining, one from geothermal and one for the oil and gas side also.

A. Weaver: One final question: to what extent are you taking steps as an organization to bring together the technology industry along with the traditional geoscience industry to ensure that we’re not only exploring, but we’re actually figuring out ways of doing that more efficiently and more effectively and in a more environmentally-sound manner? I give an example like MineSense, as a company, which is a good example of doing that. Do you have a means and ways of actually bringing that tech sector together with the resource sector?

C. Salas: We certainly are starting to do that, for sure. Right now we’ve partnered with the federal government to actually take some of this instrumentation from the NASA project and put it out and commercialize it so it goes out into the public domain.

On the mineral and mining side, we started an innovative project, called the Roben Jig project, to clean coal samples. This is a technology that’s inexpensive that wasn’t around before, yet it has the capability of really changing the space with respect to coal sampling and such.

So we are taking steps to move toward that technology leap.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Your time’s up, but I appreciate everything you’re doing for geoscience. Thank you very much for your presentation.

Next up we have Engage Sport North Society — Mandi Graham and Leslie Wirth.

[2:20 p.m.]

ENGAGE SPORT NORTH SOCIETY

L. Wirth: I’d like to thank the committee for the opportunity to present to you this afternoon about the powerful impact that government investment in sport and physical activity has in communities throughout the north. My name is Leslie Ann Wirth. I’m the executive director of Engage Sport North. I’m joined by Mrs. Mandi Graham, who is the parent of a high-developing and high-performing snowboard cross athlete here in Prince George.

Engage Sport North is a not-for-profit society and the only multisport organization of its kind serving the northern two-thirds of this province. Our purpose is to advance sport participation and excellence throughout the north. Our territory is vast — north to south from the Yukon border to 100 Mile House and east to west from the Alberta border to Haida Gwaii. We are the only organization to provide programs and services to athletes, participants, coaches and sport leaders of all ages, in all stages of development, with all abilities, across all sports.

Thank you to our provincial government for a strong history of investing in sport and physical activity programming here in northern British Columbia and, specifically, for the investments you have made to support the work of Engage Sport North since its creation in 1993.

In 2017-2018, the province of B.C. will provide Engage Sport North with $111,500 of funding flowed through the ViaSport B.C. Society. Engage Sport North will leverage this investment to a total of $886,700 raised through partnerships, grants, sponsorship and program revenues, and 100 percent of the resources will be used to support the direct delivery of programs and services here in northern B.C.

In 2016-2017, Engage Sport North received an allocation of $138,000 through ViaSport B.C. Society. We are proud to have provided services to almost 3,000 athletes, coaches, officials and participants with opportunities to play, try, learn, train, compete, win, coach, mentor and officiate. Our work with coaches and officials leads us to confidently estimate that our reach extends even further to an additional 8,000 participants and athletes playing, training and competing here in the north.

We have provided Engage Sport North’s 2016-2017 annual report to provide further details on how we have put your investment to use over the last year. I believe you received that electronically.

Under “Inclusion, affordability and Indigenous people,” our team of five works collaboratively and in partnership with the Indigenous Sport, Physical Activity and Recreation Council, local and provincial sport organizations, municipalities and community organizations to offer sport participation and physical literacy development programming, coach and sport leader education and training and specialized services for youth athletes on a high-performance pathway.

Like your government, we are focused on inclusion, with a minimum of 10 percent of our resources being directed to provide services for people living with physical, sensory and cognitive disabilities. We are particularly proud of our community sport programs Try-It and Park Play Days that have been specifically designed to provide an introduction to sport and physical literacy development opportunities to people of all ages and socioeconomic backgrounds, as they are provided in community locations, free of charge and facilitated by qualified and experienced coaches and sport leaders.

Our after-school program and Aboriginal sport camps provide local opportunities for children and youth living in remote Aboriginal communities to increase their physical literacy, learn the fundamentals of sport and gain sport leadership skills.

In 2016-2017, Engage Sport North provided more than 25,000 hours of physical activity programming to people living in 11 different communities throughout the north and provided specialized training and development services to more than 425 youth athletes on a performance pathway. Athletes trained by Engage Sport North are currently competing at the local, provincial, national and international levels and are winning medals on the world stage on a regular basis.

There’s a name that you’re going to want to listen for this winter. Her name is Meryeta Odine. She came all the up through Engage Sport North programming. She’ll actually very likely be representing Canada at the Olympics this year. It’s pretty exciting.

Sport is a means to healthy lives and healthy communities and for advancing broad public policy in areas such as mental and physical health as well as community and economic development. Positive sport experiences fuel the development of healthier and more active communities and enrich life through personal, social and economic development.

[2:25 p.m.]

Research demonstrates that when youth, particularly girls, participate in organized sport, they are more likely to complete post-secondary education, refrain from abusing alcohol and using illicit drugs and are less likely to become teenage mothers. These are important considerations for our northern communities.

Physical activity through sport makes it less likely that risk factors for chronic diseases such as heart disease, hypertension, type 2 diabetes and osteoporosis will develop later in life. Engage Sport North sport participation programming and sport leadership training contribute significantly to an active and healthy British Columbian population.

Sport is a means for youth to learn important life skills such as teamwork, respect and discipline, and can be used to address a range of community priorities, including health, Aboriginal youth engagement, economic revitalization, newcomer settlement, citizen participation and conflict resolution. Over the last three years, we have trained more than 1,200 youth athletes and worked in 14 Aboriginal communities to help youth leaders gain these skills.

The provincial government’s commitment to a healthy, active and competitive British Columbia is evident through its investment in sport. Engage Sport North is grateful for your investment and is passionate about continuing to increase physical activity, improve physical literacy and encourage our communities to be active for life. Your investment in Engage Sport North is both appreciated and treated with great care. We share your values of transparency and excellence, and we are committed to continue to improve through intentional practice. Our strategy to invest in people and systems to build capacity to deliver exceptional services serves our population well.

Specifically, we’ve implemented internal processes to ensure that we are driven by our vision and operationally focused on our strategy — strengthening appropriate organizational stewardship through policy governance and investments in board member training and development; fostering trust through open communication and transparent reporting and consultation; identifying, mitigating and managing risk; and creating and delivering programs and services specific to the needs of our northern communities.

Thank you again for this opportunity to participate in today’s session. I’m pleased to answer any questions that you may have about Engage Sport North, its programs and services and its place within the province.

S. Cadieux: I have a couple of questions. I’m just looking at your annual report. It looks like you were significantly over budget last year and that your revenues are not matching your expenditures. Is that expected to be an ongoing…?

L. Wirth: It identifies two things. One is that there was a very late grant received in 2015-2016 — received within the last three weeks of the fiscal year — that then actually wasn’t attributed to deferred revenue. It was $100,000. That is really the difference from last year.

There also was a significant surplus, at one point, for Engage Sport North. We’re trying, at this point, to make sure that we are spending all of the money that we have available on programming, as there is no opportunity to stockpile for that.

S. Cadieux: Bob, if I could just follow up.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yes, of course.

S. Cadieux: The second sort of comes into that, I guess. You’ve got your staffing as an administrative cost, as opposed to a program cost. Is there a reason you’re listing it that way?

L. Wirth: That’s just the auditors. We actually have not listed it that way when we do our budget process.

S. Cadieux: Yeah. I would assume your major cost is your staffing, for your programming.

L. Wirth: Absolutely, yes — about 40 percent.

S. Cadieux: Okay. My last question, really quickly. I’m pleased to see the focus on inclusion. How did the organization arrive at 10 percent, given that the population of people with disabilities is around 15 percent and actually higher in the north? Does that include your Aboriginal programming, or is that separate?

L. Wirth: No, it is separate. It’s very distinct for that particular population with physical, sensory and cognitive disabilities. We are part of a provincial strategy for sport accessibility. We worked really hard to try to find numbers where we could be confident with the number that we were using. I’d never heard 15 percent myself, and 10 percent really was where the board was very comfortable.

That being said, 100 percent of our programs are available to people of all abilities. We run specialized programs out of that 10 percent, but every single program — our summer camp programs, our high-performance services, our coach services — is available to everybody, with all abilities. So 100 percent of our money serves that population, and we defined specialized programming with 10 percent of our budget.

[2:30 p.m.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Before I move on, I just had a quick question for you myself in regards to the challenges of having such a large area. You mentioned that you’re involved with Haida Gwaii and other areas. Can you just tell us a little bit about the challenges that you might have regionally and also how you deal with that from a budgetary point of view, and that type of thing?

L. Wirth: From a budgetary point of view, we actually have changed our strategy related to how we develop and how we deliver services. Whereas, in the past, we went virtually everywhere that we were asked to deliver services, or we tried to do that, we realized that cost-effectively we just were not going to be able to manage that.

We’ve actually identified very specific communities that also tend to be communities where people will come in for services from an hour or two away. So Williams Lake is an example. Terrace is an example. Smithers is an example. Dawson Creek and Fort St. John, etc…. We’ve tried to really provide good services to as many population hubs as we possibly can, and that’s a relatively new strategy for us.

It’s incredibly difficult to reach every community. There are athletes out there that are on a very high-performance pathway, living in small communities, that until we know about them and we actually engage with them, aren’t really receiving the high-quality support that they need — as well as all of those introduction-to-sport opportunities that people may not be receiving if we’re not there to help facilitate that.

It is the biggest challenge that Engage Sport North has. There is no consideration given to that related to the funding that we receive from ViaSport British Columbia society. They don’t look at that aspect in our funding model at all.

P. Milobar: Thank you, and I can appreciate. I’m from Kamloops. I have a high-level athlete at my house, and it’s hard enough getting them around the country from there, let alone what you’re dealing with.

But it’s a good segue with ViaSport. I was just wondering about your annual report. You have a $200,000 budget. You only received $138,000. In your presentation, you said $111,000.

L. Wirth: It will be, this year, again.

P. Milobar: So you’re obviously seeing a reduction. Is that because ViaSport is…. We had a presentation from them as well, asking for support. So what I’m trying to ascertain is…. Is it because they’re feeling a pinch, as well, or are they spreading themselves a little thinner? Or do you know?

L. Wirth: I don’t really know how they make their decisions on funding. They don’t disclose that to the organizations that they fund. So yes, since I’ve been here in 2014, we’ve seen significantly less money.

That $200,000 was reflective of a $160,000 annual contribution prior to last year. Then we were always very fortunate to be able to receive grants from ViaSport that would, actually, make up close to $200,000, so another $38,000 in there. Both of those last year were changed significantly. ViaSport entered into an agreement with DASH BC, which compromised our ability to actually receive that $38,000 in physical literacy funding that we had already had in the past.

Again, I can’t comment on their decision-making process, but what I do know is that it becomes more and more difficult to deliver programs and services when that contribution is going down.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Mandi, do you mind jumping in? I’d just like to hear what the organization’s done for your child, and maybe tell us a little bit about your experience.

M. Graham: Engage Sport’s done amazing things for both of my children. I have a high-performing athlete, as stated in the presentation, but I also have a child with a disability, so they’ve both received great opportunities through the organization.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Well, thank you very much to both of you. We really appreciate all the work that you do for sports in the province and in the north, particularly. We appreciate everything you do. Thanks for the presentation.

[2:35 p.m.]

All right, next up we have College of New Caledonia — Henry Reiser. Hello, Henry. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

COLLEGE OF NEW CALEDONIA

A. Gourley-Cramer: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for having us. My name is Alyson Gourley-Cramer. I’m the executive director of communications at the College of New Caledonia. This is Henry Reiser. He is our president. We’re honoured to be here today to present to you.

Henry will be doing the majority of the speaking and presenting, but I’m here, happy to help. Unfortunately, our board chair, Mr. Lee Doney, was not able to be here today.

H. Reiser: Before I begin, I’d like to recognize that we are on the traditional territory of the Lheidli T’enneh.

As president, during this presentation, I want to talk about three principle things. First, we want to help you understand the important role that CNC plays in education, as well as economic and community development across the central Interior B.C. region. Second, we will explain how CNC is well positioned to help the province achieve its goal, as outlined in the skills-for-jobs blueprint and the top 50 jobs in demand. Finally, we’ll describe how the province can help CNC reach its goals of providing skills training and access to post-secondary education for all learners in northern British Columbia.

Who are we? Well, from a student perspective, we provide education and skills training to about 4,300 students across our six campuses in Prince George, Quesnel, Mackenzie, Vanderhoof, Fort. St. James and Burns Lake. We accommodate another 3,900 students through continuing education skills courses. Our international students make up about 10 percent of our total student count. The average age of our students is 24.

B.C. student outcomes surveys report that 94 percent of our students are satisfied with the education they’ve received at CNC, and nearly 24 percent of our domestic learners have self-declared Aboriginal ancestry, with two of our campuses having more than 95 percent of the student base as Aboriginal. Since the data we collect is dependent on students declaring their own ancestry, the actual percentage of Aboriginal students is actually higher.

How we contribute. Through training and education, in line with B.C. skills-for-jobs blueprint, CNC has a central role to play in developing the highly skilled and educated workforce required for northern British Columbia. Student outcomes surveys report that 83 percent of CNC’s diploma, associate degree and certificate graduates are currently in the labour force. The percentage for apprentices is even higher, at 95 percent.

In the economy. In 2012-13, B.C. colleges commissioned a report, which stated that for every dollar of public money invested in CNC, taxpayers receive a cumulative value of $2.20 over the course of the students’ working lives.

How we are unique. In accessibility, CNC’s fetal alcohol spectrum disorder on-line education is renowned and has helped increase awareness and understanding. CNC continues to offer the second-lowest tuition rate for post-secondary education in B.C. and provides transfer agreements with 15 post-secondary institutions in B.C., Alberta and across Canada. CNC offers a number of academic upgrading courses, which can serve as prerequisites to other college courses or which can help individuals obtain adult basic education certificates or a B.C. adult graduation diploma.

In programming, CNC has been integral to post-secondary learning in B.C. since 1969, and we take pride in being connected to the people and the communities we serve.

[2:40 p.m.]

CNC offers 90 flexible and transferable programs and courses, training and educating students in health sciences, trades and technologies, social services and business and university studies. There are some of the programs that are unique to CNC in the region and province. A medical sonography program, identified as one of the top priority health professions. Our new diagnostic medical sonography diploma program will be offered in September of 2018. It will be the only program of its kind outside of the Lower Mainland. BCIT is the only institution that offers it.

The refreshed dental hygiene program returned this September of 2017. The new program has been completely digitized and updated in consultation with the dental community in northern British Columbia to ensure it meets community needs and provincially mandated outcomes.

We have the only professional cook program in northern British Columbia.

The Quesnel expansion of third-class power engineering. The plant expansion in the Quesnel trades building will allow for this new program delivery. Upgrades include installation of a new $1.6 million boiler system.

How we collaborate. CNC continues to look for new and different ways to build capacity through partnerships and collaboration with government, industry, K to 12, post-secondary institutions and labour to meet the economic objectives of the province. With industry partners, CNC is continuing to partner with Canfor and school district 57 to run the Canfor trades program, which introduces grade 7 students to carpentry and electric trades.

We recently received a silver-medal international award at the 2016 Global Best Awards in the STEM — science, technology, engineering and mathematics — category for the North American region. CNC won the medal for its partnership with Dunkley Lumber and the CNC Research Forest Society on our 12,500-hectare research forest.

Educational partners. Northern Post-Secondary Council, which includes Northwest Community College, Northern Lights College, University of Northern British Columbia and CNC, launched a collaborative marketing and recruitment campaign to raise awareness of the unique and accessible educational opportunities in the north. It’s called Study North, and it was launched in September of 2017.

Our First Nations partners. CNC collaborates with 21 First Nations across the region and recognizes numerous partners in its aboriginal service plan. It also relies on continued support from the Yinka Dene Council, which advises the president and college on appropriate directions and priorities for Aboriginal people throughout the region.

This year CNC signed two MOUs with both the Lheidli T’enneh and Saik’uz First Nation, and we have plans to sign with all other 19 partners within the next two years.

Community partners. A strong community advisory committee across the program areas and regional communities, including Yinka Dene Council, the North Cariboo Post-Secondary Council and the President’s Industry Council. They all provide invaluable information, assessment and feedback to the college.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Mr. Reiser, sorry, you only have about a minute and 30 seconds. I want to make sure that you get to your asks.

Thank you.

H. Reiser: Okay. How the province can help. While we are looking for consistent and long-term funding for Aboriginal students’ learning and housing needs, we want to ensure student success through funded supports, as we know that there’s an increase in mental issues. Those supports for student success are necessary.

Continue to help fund CNC’s digital delivery instruction system. Continue to help fund applied research, along with the federal government and our industry partners and First Nations. Approve and provide funding for CNC’s civil engineering technology program. Continue to invest in capital projects and transition students to the workforce more quickly.

[2:45 p.m.]

We also are requesting that there’s an allowance for a tuition review and address compensation for excluded staff in the post-secondary institutions.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Perfect. Good timing.

Just a quick question. Have you talked to the Minister of Advanced Education, Minister Mark, at all, about all of these asks? There’s a lot.

H. Reiser: Yes.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yes, you have? Oh good, I just wanted to make sure.

Questions?

S. Cadieux: First, I just wanted to make a comment. Thank you for the FASD program. I think it is really important, and it’s great that you have it available. Second, with your capacity — 4,300 students across six campuses: are you at capacity, or are you undercapacity, in terms of students?

H. Reiser: There’s always room for more. If we include our international students, there’s another 750 — right? — that we don’t count. They’re not countable in our head counts.

A. Gourley-Cramer: Just to add to that, we really invested in our digital delivery instruction program, which does allow expansion. You’ll notice, in some of our challenges, that in rural communities we serve, the populations have really decreased in some of our catchment areas. We’ve really invested in this type of delivery, so we can expand more academic programming to some of these communities that otherwise wouldn’t get the opportunity to experience them.

J. Brar: I have two quick questions. The first one is: your student enrolment is going up or down?

H. Reiser: Currently our student enrolment this year increased by 8.6 percent, domestic students, and 25 percent international.

J. Brar: That’s quite huge.

H. Reiser: Yup. I can answer that reason. Part of it is due to the fact that we’re able to offer more programming in our communities that we couldn’t offer before because of small section sizes. Now, using our digital delivery system, which is a synchronized, real-time — like teleconferencing — delivery system, we’re able to increase our numbers that way as well.

J. Brar: The international students. You’re talking about 10 percent. Is that recent, or has it been going on for some time?

H. Reiser: Well, our international numbers when I arrived at Prince George were 124. Now we’re at 750 — and across the globe.

J. Brar: The last question I have is…. The words I heard from you, in terms of budget, were continue, continue, continue. So you’re not asking for more. This is a continuation of the existing funding?

H. Reiser: Well, our base funding has been increased with the inclusion of medical stenography. We’re looking for three engineering technology programs for approval that are before government now. That would require a lift to base as well as start-up costs and for equipment. But we’re finding that we’re very entrepreneurial, and we’re doing much better.

A. Weaver: Your number one ask was with respect to aboriginal student housing. My question to you was…. Presumably, they pay rent, do they? They would pay rent to stay in the housing?

H. Reiser: Yes.

A. Weaver: Have you explored innovative ways of actually working with developers or others to have them build the housing on a buyback basis, like UNBC did and like some other colleges did, so that you don’t have to ask for the capital from the province, but rather, there are other ways of getting that capital?

H. Reiser: Right. This is a different scenario. As far as that is concerned, with student housing, we’re working very closely with the city of Prince George and looking at the construction of 400 beds for CNC and 400 beds downtown, for UNBC, as part of urban renewal. So that’s a very creative way of looking at addressing some of our student housing challenges.

As far as the Aboriginal student housing is concerned, this is not just a residence. It’s more than that. We get a lot of Indigenous students coming from very remote communities, and that transition into a large city like Prince George is very brutal. There would be elders-in-residence and the supports that are necessary to help these students transition. That’s what this is focused on.

A. Weaver: So you’re not looking for housing, per se. You’re looking for a First Peoples centre or a First Peoples house.

H. Reiser: Well, we already have Aboriginal resource centres on all of our campuses. This would be highly focused housing for First Nations students coming from remote communities to help them transition.

A. Weaver: Are there best practices out there that you could model after? Or have you fleshed out a plan that’s publicly available?

[2:50 p.m.]

H. Reiser: Yes, it’s publicly available. We’ve made this submission to government for the last eight years. So this will be a best practice.

B. D’Eith (Chair): We’re out of time, but thank you very much for everything you do for education. I appreciate the very thorough presentation.

Next up we have the Child Development Centre of Prince George and District Association — Candis Johnson and Christy Kubert.

CHILD DEVELOPMENT CENTRE OF PRINCE
GEORGE AND DISTRICT ASSOCIATION

C. Kubert: I’m Christy Kubert. I’m manager of supported child development at the Child Development Centre.

C. Johnson: I’m Candis Johnson, and I’m a supported child development consultant.

C. Kubert: We’re here to speak to you today about SCD in Prince George and our need for increased services.

Supported child development supports children from birth to 12 years of age who experience developmental delay or disability and require support in order to participate actively in preschools, daycares and after-school care programs.

The key guiding principle of SCD is that of inclusion. Every child has the right to fully participate in a community child care program while having their unique strengths and needs recognized and supported.

Another guiding principle of SCD is to promote child development — children with developmental needs have access to early intervention and developmentally appropriate services.

SCD is funded by the Ministry of Children and Family Development. The Child Development Centre of Prince George and District has held the contract for SCD here in Prince George for almost 20 years, since the program’s inception in 1999. SCD services are provided free of charge to children, and their parents are responsible for paying related child care fees. However, SCD consultants will help parents, assist them with accessing child care subsidy and help them find programs.

Currently our program provides service in 20 to 25 community child care programs here in Prince George. That’s typical for any given time. Sometimes the programs change, but we’re always in at least 20 to 25.

We’re a family-centred program. The parent or guardian chooses the program they would like their child to attend. Currently our program, supported child development, provides service to 54 children and 22 child care programs. There are 57 children on the wait-list, which is what we’re here to talk to you about.

The wait-list for SCD services has been steadily climbing over the past seven years. To give perspective of this, in October 2010, there were two children on the wait-list. In 2011, there were ten children. In October 2012 and ’13, there were 16 children on the wait-list. In October 2014, there were 24. In October 2015, there were 31. In October 2016, there were 32 children on the wait-list, and currently there are 57 children on our wait-list.

On average, there are 60 to 75 children on active caseload. Those are actually children who are receiving services at any given time — so the active children we’re actually providing support to, and the other children are on the wait-list.

Currently supported child development employs 14 support workers; 12 are full-time and two are part-time. Those are the individuals who go in and actually directly support the children in the programs — much as, for example, EAs in school districts. Sometimes this is in a one on one, and sometimes it’s a shared support, depending on the needs of the children and the needs of the program. We employ two full-time consultants, Candis being one of them, and myself as a 0.5 manager and 0.5 consultant.

Our role as consultants is to help families find suitable child care programs if they need that. We develop an individual service plan for every child, and that is done in conjunction with the parent and the child care provider, as well as other professionals such as therapists. Consultants also complete developmental assessments for children. We also assist families to access other service providers, such as make referrals to other professionals as needed.

We also have 12 casual employees currently, who are available for on-call shifts. Those casual employees could easily move into regular, funded positions, were they available.

Another function that we perform is that we provide education to the community in regards to children and child development, specifically children with special needs. We host, every second year now, the Every Child Belongs Conference. We provide training on speech and language development in partnership with the Child Development Centre and Northern Health speech therapists.

[2:55 p.m.]

Candis and I teach positive approaches to behaviour, and we also train the community in using the ages and stages questionnaire, which is then used in programs to help assess children. We are also invited often to share regarding inclusion and how to be inclusive of children with special needs in our community, as well as educate professionals on writing effective care plans — so how we can care for these children.

We are also invited to provide education on topics such as parent-child attachment and autism spectrum disorder.

C. Johnson: I’d just like to touch on some of the challenges that are facing supported child development — and their families. On March 2, 2017, the Ministry of Children and Families announced the fourth intake of the child care major funding grants. This goal for funding intake was to support the creation of over 4,100 child care spaces in the province. That’s wonderful, because we need them. But at this time, there was already a minimum of $1.5 million provided to facilities in Prince George with no funding increases to supported child development.

Supported child development has not received an increase since 2002. The creation of more child care spaces means more children with challenges accessing child care.

Supported child development requires increases in operating funds. Many children with challenges are unable to attend child care without support. This means that parents are also unable to work because their children do not have care. The programs do not have the ability to take these children because of ratio, skills and safety.

All children are unique, but there are three features of inclusion. Children with challenges need to access quality programs. Without SCD, children are unable to attend these programs. Children need to be able to participate in playing and learning with their peers. This requires SCD to accommodate the child with an individual care plan. Children require extra supports to be successful. SCD provides ongoing training, defined processes and the ability to make sure that all children’s needs are met.

This is a human rights issue. Children with challenges do not receive the same opportunities as children with typical development.

Inclusion is all about access. Every child deserves to be in a quality child care program. The province is aware of the need for quality spaces, but supported child development services have not been put in place for these programs. Children are aging out before receiving SCD services, and this means that they are missing out on a valuable intervention service before entering into a maxed-out school system.

Receiving early intervention services provides long-term social and economic benefits for British Columbia. Early years offer a critical window, and too many children are missing their opportunity to reach their full potential.

Supported child development caseloads are increasing in complexity — children with autism, undiagnosed autism-related behaviours, mental health concerns, and extreme behaviours, including aggression and self-harming behaviours. These children require one-on-one support. Presently SCD tries to support multiple children at the same time if they’re able to share the needs with another child. The difficulty at this point is that children on our wait-list have such complex needs that they can’t share with another child.

SCD is able to provide consultation, but the children are not able to attend a program without support staff. Presently there are 52 children on a current wait-list and six waiting for September 2016.

Although quality child care has been a priority for both the previous government and the current government, children requiring extra supports have been left behind. I encourage you to consider funding to support these children, as every child belongs.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thank you very much.

J. Brar: I have a couple of questions. The first one is…. Your number, from 2011 to almost 2016, went up from ten to 32. Then from 2016 to 2017, it almost doubled, which is 57. So I would like to ask: what caused a big jump, like in a one-year window?

C. Johnson: We have actually received a large funding increase of child care spaces in Prince George, which has given more opportunity for children to be able to attend programs. Those children do not have the services to be able to have backup for supported child development, so they’re waiting for those child care spaces.

We’ve actually identified more children with mental issues, which I know is a current issue that many of you are very aware of. Child mental health is becoming more and more prevalent in our area. These children’s abilities to actually share support is difficult due to the fact that there are complex needs. Some of our children have extreme violence and aggressive behaviours, and they cannot attend without one-on-one support, and that’s why they’re waiting for more support services.

J. Brar: My last question is: if a child comes to you in year 1 and stays with you until 12 years, in layman’s language, what will you give that child?

C. Johnson: By being able to give early intervention…. We know that early intervention actually saves a lot of money in the future. You’re looking at children that are saving on the health care system, on the social services system, on many other systems — drug and alcohol issues — that can happen for families of children that don’t receive those services early. The one-to-five age is the most important age. That’s that crucial window of development. That’s where we really want to be able to be providing services.

[3:00 p.m.]

Supported child development does not provide services in the school system. So when they stay with us until 13, we’re providing after-school care for them up until the age of 13. But they will be moving into the school system. We know that the school system is overrun right now with the amount of children with challenges in there. So if we’re able to provide some form of support and help build those children’s skills and help them to develop socially, they’re going to be able to attend school a lot easier.

T. Redies: Thanks for your presentation and for the work that you’re doing with these kids.

I wasn’t clear in terms of what your current funding is and what sort of funding you would like to see in the future.

C. Johnson: Lots.

T. Redies: Again, there are obviously a lot of different interests coming forward to us, so I’m just trying to understand the quantum of what it is that you’re looking for and how much you’re being funded today.

C. Johnson: Currently we have 54 children on caseload, with 14 support staff. So right now, we have 54 children waiting on our wait-list. That kind of goes, coinciding….

T. Redies: So you need to double.

C. Johnson: If we could double our support staff, that would be ideal. I know that’s not necessarily possible.

T. Redies: Okay. All right. If you were able to get the funding you need…. I think one of the common themes we’ve heard in other areas is the challenge of finding qualified people, and I don’t know if that’s worse of a challenge up here.

C. Kubert: It’s not an issue for us.

C. Johnson: It’s not a challenge for us presently, because we actually do have a very active casual list, and we have these people that could be moving into the positions immediately. They’re skilled. We’ve been training them and making sure that they’re ready to jump in whenever they can.

C. Kubert: We actually have people lining up and saying: “We’d like to come work for you.” I’m like: “Well, sorry. We don’t have any positions.”

C. Johnson: It really takes a special person with a very special heart to be working with these children, especially when you’re working with a child that is aggressive through the day. We have some amazing staff that we would love to be able to put into the field.

T. Redies: I’m presuming you need speech and language therapists and occupational therapists.

C. Johnson: We do. The backup system is definitely needed in all areas. We definitely just wanted to talk to you today about supported child development because we only had 15 minutes, and we could talk to you for hours on end, honestly, if we were to talk about speech and language and occupational therapy and physiotherapy and the needs for mental health practitioners. In our information, we actually have provided some of the other statistics around the other therapies as well.

R. Leonard: Thank you very much, as well, for your presentation. I figured you needed double what you were…. The numbers are pretty obvious. Unless somehow there’s some benefit, but I assume one-on-one is your….

C. Johnson: One-on-one is ideal. Now, some of those children would possibly be able to share — like on our 54. But we don’t have another support staff that’s able to even take two or three of them on right now.

R. Leonard: My question relates to this astronomical increase in the need in your community. It’s quite a large catchment area. How does it relate to other regions? Is it something that’s happening societally throughout the province, or is it something that’s special about this community?

C. Kubert: Yes.

C. Johnson: Definitely. I’ll speak to that as well. It’s definitely growing. There’s lots of food for thought on whether or not it’s lack of extended family and all of…. There are so many different factors that could be coming into child development and why we’re having more and more issues happening. But realistically, we have a very busy society, and mental health has become a true issue. I think that when you’re…. It’s breeding. More and more issues are happening.

R. Leonard: It’s not just that it’s being…. There’s better assessment, noticing it better.

C. Johnson: I think so, definitely. I think the fact that we want to have more intervention…. We’re doing full assessments on these children, but we’re unable to provide that extra level of support for them.

C. Kubert: I think it speaks a lot to our society, because we are getting better at early identification of children with special needs, and we know that the intervention works. I think that’s part of society saying: “Oh my goodness. Our children need help.” So our society is doing a good job of recognizing that sooner, referring the children sooner, and a higher level of diagnosis. We’re seeing more and more with autism spectrum specifically — a lot of complex syndromes. The number of children is increasing.

A. Weaver: Very briefly, it’s clear to me that the single most important investment we can make as a society is giving children the resources they need when they need them.

[3:05 p.m.]

My question to you, though, is: how do you determine…? What is the process by which you determine whether or not a child needs those resources? What I mean by that is: is there some process? Part of the problem in the growth that we see in society is also, to some extent, overdiagnoses in certain cases, so what process do you use? Do you have access to child psychologists? Could you explain that?

C. Johnson: We do have access to child psychologists right now. We have a person that comes to our centre three times a week, so we have access to her. We actually have meetings on an ongoing basis, case conferencing with our pediatricians here in Prince George. We also have a priority rating scale, which we’re able to put together to see whether or not, which children, at what level they are and how high they meet on the priority list. We do, of course, have referral dates as well. But definitely, through assessment, we’re able to determine which children require services sooner.

A. Weaver: Do you work with MCFD and the school district — work together?

C. Johnson: Yes, we do. We actually meet quite regularly, especially for our children that are in after-school-care programs. We meet quite regularly with the school district. We’ll meet with their EAs. We meet with the school district before our children are moving into the school district system as well, and we have meetings to discuss what worked really well with us in SCD and what might work really well for you in the school system. It’s a really good partnership. We also work very closely with Aboriginal supported child development as well.

B. D’Eith (Chair): We’re out of time. Thank you very much for your presentation and for your commitment to our children. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

Next up, we have the British Columbia Schizophrenia Society. That’s David Halikowski and Kim Dixon. I do want to mention, for the record, that today is World Mental Health Day, and I want to recognize that David is wearing purple. Kim’s wearing purple too. I just wanted to recognize that it is World Mental Health Day. Thank you very much for coming.

B.C. SCHIZOPHRENIA SOCIETY

D. Halikowski: Thank you very much for having us.

Committee members, thank you for this opportunity to present. My name is David Halikowski. I am the current president of the British Columbia Schizophrenia Society board of directors. I am also the president of the board for the Prince George branch of the BCSS, and a family member.

I have been a member of the societies for over 18 years. There are seven members in my extended family who suffer with various types and degrees of mental illness, from schizoaffective disorder to bipolar, depression, anxiety and high-functioning autism. Three of my family members have chosen to self-medicate with illegal drugs. Our son became a victim of this lifestyle and, ten years ago, was murdered by the drug culture. His death is still an unsolved crime.

I was first introduced to BCSS by taking Strengthening Families Together, a program offering education and support to families and friends supporting people living with mental illness. Since then, I have participated in almost all of the programs that BCSS offers. Through them, I have gained the knowledge of how to cope with and support my family members who are suffering. I’ve met countless other family members, and together we have built a community that has supported each other as we navigate the uncharted waters of caring for people we love and who are living with a mental illness.

Through its programs and services, BCSS provides support and education to families and their ill relatives suffering with schizophrenia and other serious mental illnesses. BCSS increases public awareness and the understanding of mental illness. BCSS collaborates and partners with local health authorities and other mental health organizations to help families and people with serious mental illness access services in their communities. BCSS promotes and supports research into the causes, treatment and ultimate cure for schizophrenia. BCSS represents the type of organization that family members such as myself need to help us find reasons to hope and a means to cope.

To give you a bit of a background, the B.C. Schizophrenia Society is a grassroots volunteer organization with over 2,800 members. There are 26 regional educators and ten branches in B.C.

[3:10 p.m.]

The society’s work is supported by a dedicated staff team working in partnership with trained family peer support volunteers and other professionals. Programs delivered by staff and volunteers provide support and resources for families, communities, health agencies, front-line support personnel, police agencies and students from grade 4 to post-secondary levels. All of these people help BCSS run consistent programs and services wherever it has educators, branches and staff for people affected by schizophrenia and serious mental illnesses in B.C.

Our regional educators respond to hundreds of families annually, helping them to understand and better navigate our mental health system. BCSS helps connect families to the services provided by their local health authorities and local mental health organizations. We have been meeting this need from families for the past 35 years, providing support and resources over the phone, by email and in person, and we hope to continue to do so into the future.

The mental health landscape is this. Change starts with personal connections. We can talk about mental illness and stigma, but unless there is a personal connection, it doesn’t change, and BCSS provides that personal connection. In B.C., the total population under the age of 25 is 1,237,925, and of this population, 14 percent are affected by mental illness — that is, 173,300 young people facing some form of a mental illness.

When that young person is diagnosed with mental illness, their life is generally turned upside down, and they don’t know where to turn, where to go or how to seek help. Their families are at a loss about what to do and how to help them. They’re frantically looking for resources and information to help and support their child.

Both a person with a mental illness and their family often feel alone as they navigate the system and figure out the future ahead of them. BCSS does important work to change this reality for families across B.C. Through education, awareness, community support and family support, families find out that they are not alone, gain a better understanding of mental illness and its effects, how to better communicate to their loved one and what services are in place to help them. No matter where they are, from Vancouver to Fort St. John and from Creston to Haida Gwaii, families across B.C. are able to gain support that they need.

We need your help to ensure equality of service and sustainable funding for these services across B.C., a demonstration of commitment and support from the new government for mental health and the families affected by mental illness. We need your help to help us ensure that we’re able to meet this need long term and to continue working in partnership and collaboration with health authorities and collaborators. We need to ensure that our staff are compensated appropriately for the level of support that they are providing to families. The work they do is invaluable.

We will be forwarding along a formal proposal for funding on October 16 to the standing committee, along with letters of support from family members and board members from across the province. Briefly, we’re asking for consideration of $13 million over five years to fund BCSS regional educators in all regions of B.C. This additional funding will allow BCSS to continue to sustain and provide consistent service and programs throughout the communities where BCSS regional educators operate. We implore you to seriously consider this request for funding over five years to fund BCSS educators in all regions.

Family members have told us that our programs and services have literally saved lives, helping them work better with local health authorities and finding services and support they need to care for their loved ones with schizophrenia and with severe and persistent mental illness.

[3:15 p.m.]

Since my retirement in 2002, I have volunteered at the Prince George branch of BCSS to help other families like mine know they are not alone. To further help this organization so close to my heart, I became the provincial society’s board president and have been for several years, to help it grow and sustain its services across the province.

Again, thank you for the opportunity. I now would like to turn your attention to my colleague and regional manager for BCSS’s northern region, Kim Dixon, who will provide you with some of the successes and challenges that we face serving the north half of the province.

K. Dixon: Mr. Chair, can you just clarify the amount of time I have?

B. D’Eith (Chair): You’ve got about a minute and 15 seconds.

K. Dixon: Okay. Well, then, we’ll just turn that over.

Can I just get you to glance at the person beside you? Just take a good look at the person beside you. The science tells us that one in three of us will experience a diagnosable mental illness in our lifetime, but the small print in the mental health first-aid course is that it’s likely one in two, so half of us. Half of us will experience a diagnosable mental illness in our lifetime, and the other half of us are freaked out. There’s no one left. BCSS has been here to provide support to the half that are freaked out.

As family members, we go through normal, predictable, emotional responses to the trauma of mental illness. We need support and we need education in order to be able to deal with that trauma and, in turn, support our loved one. The irony is, is that if we invest in families, in providing them with that support and education, the final part of our journey is that we want to give back. Dave has demonstrated that with over ten years of volunteering, right?

As a family member, myself, I’ve been in this job for almost 20 years. This is my life’s work. I service a region — Prince George, Mackenzie, the Alberta border, Burns Lake, Quesnel — on 0.8 FTE. The only way that I can do that is to build capacity in the families that I serve. By investing in that support and education up front, you’re going to get a much greater return, because families want to give back. They want to educate and support other family members.

That would be my request — that you look at investing in BCSS and the support of family caregivers. They will return that favour by investing their time for decades to come.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Dave. Thank you, Kim. We really appreciate it. I have a brother who has a schizoaffective disorder. I’m sure many, if not all, of us are affected, as you said, by mental illness.

There is now a Ministry of Mental Health and Addictions, which should hopefully help us focus energy. I encourage you to talk at length to the new minister, if you haven’t already.

D. Halikowski: We’re trying.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yup. I’m sure you will. It’s early days.

D. Halikowski: Well, actually, I think we do have an appointment at some point later on.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Good.

Questions?

P. Milobar: Thank you for the presentation.

Kim, when you touched on, at the end, about the 0.8 and the huge geographic area of the FTE…. The funding request that will be coming forward is a provincial ask for the provincial body. Are there targeted funds within the provincial money you’ve received in the past, or is it up to your provincial organization to then distribute and provide the 0.8 instead of 1.8?

D. Halikowski: It’s the provincial organization. We hold the contracts with the health authorities to provide the educators around the province.

P. Milobar: I guess what I’m asking is: so, there would be no guarantee that the 0.8 would go up if the funding increased? Am I putting you on the spot?

[3:20 p.m.]

D. Halikowski: Well, what we have done with some funding that we already received a couple of years ago directly from the Health ministry…. It allows us to provide more educators in the areas that we don’t have them, which would take some of the pressure off people like Kim, who serve our very large areas. We’ll expand into those areas where we don’t have somebody to service and build up a community there.

A. Weaver: Very quick. You said your ask was $13 million over five years. Following on what Peter said, what are we comparing it to? What have you been getting over the previous five years?

D. Halikowski: We receive about $1.2 million a year, I believe it is. We operate on about $2 million a year. I’m sorry I don’t have the direct figures for you for that. But that budget was put together with the thought of what we already had and what we would increase to, to be able to do that.

A. Weaver: So it’s more than double, what you’re looking for now.

D. Halikowski: It’s more than double.

J. Brar: So if I understand it correctly, BCSS is a….You’re saying it’s a provincial organization. So are you…? Is the one based in Prince George a branch of the provincial organization?

D. Halikowski: There’s a branch in Prince George, which I also represent, but right at this point I’m representing the provincial office. And this is a provincial ask.

J. Brar: So it’s a provincial ask for the whole organization.

D. Halikowski: That’s right.

J. Brar: Okay. If you could describe to us as to where this money is going to go — like, $50 million, $30 million. Can you just briefly describe that to us?

D. Halikowski: Well, it’s spread out over the five years. It’s around 550….

J. Brar: I understand that. But is this FTEs, or is this going to…?

D. Halikowski: This would allow us to hire educators. Some of them will be 0.8 FTEs, some of them will be 0.4, depending on the area and whether we need a full-time person in those areas. But we’ll be able to go into communities — like Fort St. John and in the Kootenays, where we currently do have, I think, one office. But we need to get into other areas other than Cranbrook.

K. Dixon: Are you asking specifically about the services?

J. Brar: No, I’m talking about the expenses. Like, where the money is going to be spent.

K. Dixon: Oh, okay.

D. Halikowski: So it will be spent expanding our base, I guess, if I can put it that way.

B. D’Eith (Chair): We’re out of time. Thank you very much for your presentation. It’s obviously extremely important work for our community and for mental health.

Just one moment. We’re just trying to figure out who the next people are.

Calling Simon Fraser Lodge — Jerry Joseph and Liz Catarino. The floor is yours.

SIMON FRASER LODGE

L. Catarino: Good afternoon. My name is Liz Catarino. I am the general manager for Simon Fraser Lodge here in Prince George. To my right is Jerry Joseph. He is the director of care. We are here on behalf of Simon Fraser Lodge to discuss with you our recruitment challenges.

Simon Fraser Lodge is a 130-bed long-term-care facility, providing 24-hour complex care. Our nursing team consists of licensed practical nurses and care aids. Currently, we provide 2.8 hours per resident day, which consists of 273.5 care hours daily and 90.5 hours daily of licensed practical nurses.

Over the past four years, recruitment for the care aid and LPN positions is becoming more difficult. We have explored options with the local College of New Caledonia about increasing class sizes and have provided letters of support on this. We have expressed concern about class sizes these past few years to our local MLAs. With an aging workforce, the ability to meet vacancies currently cannot be met or sustained. We are also facing challenges with ongoing staff education and professional development, due to limited availability of staff to cover shifts.

[3:25 p.m.]

Last year CNC had a class size of 36, of which 26 students graduated in May 2017. Five of the 36 students dropped part-time status and returned this fall. Care aids primarily work in long-term care, and there are currently over 400 long-term-care beds in Prince George. Care aids are also employed in group homes, home support, home care agencies and assisted living in acute care.

In 2016, the office of the seniors advocate initiated a provincial survey of all B.C. care residential facilities. The survey results were recently issued and indicate that more direct staff is needed to meet the needs of residents in facility care.

One of the recommendations made is to increase staffing levels in care facilities to a minimum of 3.36 funded care hours per resident day for both direct and allied. SFL is currently at 2.8 hours per resident day of direct care. With an increase anticipated from this report, we will face extreme challenges to staff accordingly, based on the current system.

Our recommendation is to increase class sizes in the health care assistant program in Prince George. This will help promote and protect quality public health care. It will also help to create a sustainable workforce in this region to meet the ever-increasing needs of our seniors population.

This aligns with two of the three priorities from the recent throne speech — improving services for British Columbians and helping build a strong, sustainable economy.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much.

Did you want to add anything, Jerry?

J. Joseph: Not at this time.

R. Leonard: Thank you very much for your presentation. It was very clear and succinct. It’s obvious what the issue is.

If the number of students in the class was increased, is there an interest in the population to seek that kind of qualification and that kind of a career in this region?

L. Catarino: There is a demand.

R. Leonard: There is a demand.

L. Catarino: I can say there is a demand just from what we’ve heard from our colleagues. We also have sister sites. We have one in Penticton, and they’re also feeling the same thing. I know that I went to a recent conference in Whistler this past May, and there was a lot of discussion around brainstorming around how to get more staffing.

We’re even doing national advertising when it comes to staffing for care aids, because it’s gotten to that point where we can try to recruit but we’ve got to go nationally now. It’s becoming more and more challenging.

R. Leonard: Are there any other incentives that you can apply or that you would like to be able to apply to bring people into the region?

J. Joseph: I think, in the past, we’ve found that if we can hire locally, we can retain them as well. We have tried to recruit staff from Vancouver and from other provinces, but because there are licensing requirements — care aids are supposed to be registered in each province — it’s best to hire from the province itself.

Like I said earlier, we found that if you hire from Prince George, the chances of retaining the staff are higher. That’s why we are looking at…. The numbers for the college…. There are 36 seats. You heard in our presentation that there were only 26 who graduated. Because some of the positions were part-time, the college has now taken steps to convert all the seats into full-time.

Still, the number is the same from a few years ago. There used to be two colleges in Prince George. One of them closed down. Sprott-Shaw was the second college. Since that second college shut down, there has not been an increase to accommodate that loss of seats.

There has been an increase in demand for care aids, even in acute care these days. The scope of the care aids has increased. They can work in acute care as well, so they are looking for employment in acute care.

[3:30 p.m.]

Also, there is an increase in the number of home care agencies in the city. A lot of seniors are choosing to stay home. There is a requirement for care aids at home as well. There is an increase in demand, and the supply is actually less, which is affecting our operations. We are not able to meet the needs by staffing appropriately. We are meeting the basic needs, but we are not able to train the staff or send them for education because we don’t have extra staff to do that.

R. Leonard: Has the college said why they won’t increase the numbers?

L. Catarino: Last year I believe — it was either last year or late last year — there was discussion about increasing class sizes. It wasn’t just us that had brought this forward. Letters of support were drawn up, and we did send them to CNC. I don’t know what took place there.

Jerry, do you have an update?

J. Joseph: No. I believe they have put the request through. I’m not sure.

T. Redies: Thank you for your presentation. You also have a number of students here that are going from full-time to part-time, I guess. Is that lifestyle changes, having families? Is that what the challenge is?

L. Catarino: Yeah. I think that’s how it is.

T. Redies: So similar to doctors and nurses, and things like that.

Given the demand, how much would we have to increase the number of students in order to meet your needs?

J. Joseph: When we discussed it with the college last time, they were thinking about adding another class in a year — just to run another batch. Right now it’s from September to May, so they were thinking of having something to cover the remaining six months. Another class of maybe 30 students would probably….

T. Redies: It would help.

J. Joseph: Yeah.

J. Brar: I just want to understand. I know you’re asking for, probably, another class of students, which is the training program actually going up. Have you done any kind of survey — that you are able to retain or retention is not an issue here, it’s only the training that is an issue? I just want to make sure that it is only the training that is the issue, not people moving, after getting the training, out of Prince George or somewhere else.

L. Catarino: You mean if the additional seats were available at the college?

J. Brar: There are two issues. One, you are talking about the training program, more seats for the training program, right? What I’m asking is…. Sometimes people do training and then they move out somewhere else. Are you retaining all the people who are trained here? That’s my question.

J. Joseph: In Prince George, out of the 36 seats, the students come from different little towns in northern B.C., so some of them go back to their home communities as well. Not of all them stay in Prince George. This is true. They go back and serve their communities. So there is a possibility that they would go back to their communities, or they might move to a different town. But again, that’s not within our…. Yes. There is a possibility that they could move.

A. Weaver: You’ve touched upon, obviously, a growing problem, which is our aging demographic and the need for people to be there to support them as they age. My question is twofold. First off, how is it that you know that there’s more demand than there are spaces? What quantitative evidence do you have to suggest that if there were 52 spots, you would actually get 52 applicants?

The reason why I say that is that I come from the academic sector. Where there’s demand, we create supply, because there’s nothing better than getting more students in your classroom. So what strong evidence do you have that there is actually this demand out there that just is not being met?

J. Joseph: We are a care facility. We recruit staff all through the year. We continue to recruit. The only reason why there is the turnover is because there are only so many graduates every year, and there are opportunities for them all around in town. So people move to full-time positions when one becomes available. That is happening.

The reason why we have to keep hiring through the year — we hire 20 to 30 people in a year — is because people come in, and they get a full-time job elsewhere, so they keep moving. There are not enough to fill all the positions.

A. Weaver: Right. You’re saying, “We have a demand here,” and you’re saying there’s not enough supply. But the link that hasn’t been made…. By increasing more spaces, it doesn’t mean there are more students that are going to want to do that — to fill your demand.

[3:35 p.m.]

The bigger question here is…. I would have thought that this ask would have been specifically coming through college budgets, because ultimately, the College of New Caledonia has internal priorities as to what they decide the demands, so to speak, from their customers, the students, are, and they try to create programs accordingly.

It’s not like, say, a university, where you have to have a specific degree-granting ability. We’ll hear from physiotherapists later. They can’t give the degree here, but you can. CNC can offer new programs. So my wonder is whether or not they’re the appropriate group that you should be going to, to seek the more spaces, because they have the ability to create them, and then the funding mechanisms come up through the provincial advanced ed formula.

J. Joseph: Like Liz had mentioned earlier, we had approached CNC, and we had submitted our request to CNC, but we never got to see the increase in seats. That’s why we are here.

L. Catarino: And we actually did advise them to get the stats to put in this report. They are aware that we’re coming forward, and they were quite pleased that we were moving it in this direction.

It, maybe, leads me to believe that something dropped off there, or maybe there’s a different process at that level that we’re not aware of. I don’t know. But we can certainly follow up with them on that as well.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. Well, thank you very much for your presentation and everything you do in the community. We’ll read this with great interest.

We’re going to deviate a little bit from the schedule. I’d like to, if I could — and this is to the back, as well, so you know — call Dave King for a five-minute presentation.

PRINCE GEORGE BACKCOUNTRY
RECREATION SOCIETY

D. King: Thank you for the opportunity to make a presentation. My name is Dave King. I’m talking on behalf of the Prince George Backcountry Recreation Society, which is made up of about ten groups in the central Interior here that are all active in basically back-country, non-motorized types of recreation. Very specifically, one of the member clubs is the Caledonia Ramblers Hiking Club, and I’m a director, actually, with both organizations.

The concern we have is we work very closely with B.C. Parks and also with recreation sites and trails and the maintenance of trails and facilities out in the forest lands, on our Crown lands. It is our very strong feeling that they, particularly B.C. Parks, are seriously underfunded and really need additional funds and staffing.

I won’t go through all the details that are in here. But this year alone — I’m just going to speak to this year — the Caledonia Ramblers have put in near 1,200 hours of volunteer time into the Ancient Forest Park, the brand-new park that was established just east of here. We had a big role to play in that. We’ve put in close to 250 hours on other parks. We’ve worked with getting funds, helping B.C. Parks do other things like servicing remote cabins. There are three cabins in one of our parks here, the Sugarbowl–Grizzly Den Park, that can only be serviced by helicopter.

Though discussions with Canfor myself, I convinced them to make a helicopter available and staff and so on to help them out, because parks really did not have the money to fly firewood in. These cabins are near the tree line. There’s no wood locally or nearby to the cabins, so they require helicopter servicing. The Prince George Backcountry Recreation Society has been helping with this for 20-plus years, long before it even became a park.

The Backcountry Rec Society has held fundraising events to raise the money to cover costs to get some of the supplies in, in the past. This year, we did talk Canfor into it. Canfor not only provided the helicopter, but six of their staff came out and helped out for the day, and three of the initial attack fire crew that were not working came out and helped also. But typically, it’s the Backcountry Recreation members and so on that do these kind of things.

[3:40 p.m.]

We’ve sort of figured it out. I did some calculations. Somewhere around 2,000 hours of volunteer time have been put in, just this year, into the parks locally here. If you work that out, that’s well over 200 man-days, maybe 250 man-days, of time.

If it was not for that input locally here into the parks system, there is no way…. The parks branch staff will even phone us up and say: “Can you help us out?” At Eskers Park, a very popular park on the edge of town here, they’ve asked us: “Could you get a crew together and go out and cut all the blowdown out this spring?” This kind of thing is going on. They just do not have the staff.

What we would like out of this, the reason for the presentation, is we’d very much like to see an increase in funding for B.C. parks generally. I know this is not just a local situation; it’s across the province. We’d certainly like to see that funding at least doubling the numbers of staff at the regional offices, no less than doubling.

It’s one thing to have summer assistance, summer help. They still need that, but they need more than that. They really need a doubling of full-time staff. I mean, you’ve got two or three people looking after dozens of parks. It just doesn’t work. They cannot enforce. They cannot look after the ecological values that are there, and so on. They just don’t have the time. They don’t have the staff. If a bear incident occurs and one of the staff gets pulled away for that for a few days, as happened this summer — one of them had to go to Mount Robson Park for a few days to deal with a bear issue there — there’s nobody around. It’s not a good situation.

Since I only have a few minutes to make a quick presentation, I’ll stop there. There’s a little more in the written document I’ve provided.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Perfect timing. Thank you very much for your presentation and, obviously, for everything you guys do for the parks and all the volunteer time you’ve time put into our back country. Thanks, Dave. We appreciate it.

If we could call Terry Robertson.

This is five minutes. Thank you very much, Terry. If you would please go ahead.

TERRY ROBERTSON

T. Robertson: Thank you for the opportunity to come and speak to you today. I’m here as a mom. I have a daughter who’s 31 who has severe cerebral palsy. She doesn’t sit, stand, walk or talk, but she runs our lives. This is Bree-Anna in Australia last year, where she was asked to go speak to an international congress on disability.

I’m here because I not only live this life every day; I work with families all over this province to help them get access to services from Community Living B.C. and the Ministry of Health. I want to say, right out, thank you to the new government for reinstating the bus passes and increasing the PWD. It’s a big help to families and their sons and daughters. Without that help, people can’t get to work and any kind of recreation or anything like that.

As you can see, I live this life, and my family is okay. We get by because we have a microboard. Maybe MLA Cadieux knows what that is. For everybody else, we’re a small non-profit of family and friends who’ve come together to create a small society for our daughter, and that’s how we get services from Community Living B.C. We get direct services funding from Community Living B.C. to support the kind of life our daughter wants. She lives at home with us. We developed the kind of life we want her to have. She has a passion for travel, which is why I work with families all over the province.

This is my day job. It’s what I’ve lived for most of my daughter’s life — supporting other families. Like some of the other people have said, I work from…. In this province, there are five of us that work for the provincial organization I’m employed by. I work from the Yukon border to about Clinton, Haida Gwaii to the Alberta border, supporting families. I travel a lot. I’m away from home, but that’s okay. As long as families get the support they need, that’s really what’s the bottom line.

[3:45 p.m.]

To sit here and say: “Don’t forget families….” I’ve been at the CDC place, where those ladies came and asked for early intervention funding. Now, all these years later, I’m here, still saying — I’ve come to this standing committee several times — our kids need support all the way through the process.

Bree-Anna’s dependence on us is never going to end, but we’re lucky because we have some funding from CLBC. Not every family is getting that kind of support right now. So for you to think about how families are going to continue to cope long term, with families that are sitting on wait-lists and the obvious crisis that that brings for families and, then, additional costs.

The organization I work for is called Vela Microboard Association. There are some good news stories out of that. These are cost-effective, small, self-directed, person-centred organizations that really focus on an individual as opposed to the big picture, where maybe you’re sitting in a four-bed group home or something like that. Those places are great, if that’s what you need to use, but our belief is that people get better service and better lives out of living and getting supports with individualized supports.

I know I don’t have much time. Maybe I should just end it there. Oh, one other thing. CLBC has just been allowed to go on reserve and start working with families that are on reserve. I’ve made a few trips to Hazelton now to enter into a dialogue with families there. We think there’s a huge pot of work in that area, on reserves all over this province. Families there have not really used CLBC services or government services. They’re pretty leery, for obvious reasons — Aboriginal schools issues going back along generations.

Remember CLBC and the funding. I can speak to CLBC because I was at the table when it was created. I have a long history with CLBC, as well, and volunteering for them.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks, Terry. I’d encourage you…. You have until October 16 to put anything in writing. While we’ll have this transcript, it’s always helpful if you can put something in, in writing to back it up. We’d appreciate it.

Thanks for your time. Obviously, you work extremely hard with your life with your daughter, and that commitment is amazing.

T. Robertson: It’s full time.

B. D’Eith (Chair): All right. Next up we have the Prince George Brain Injured Group Society. It’s Bob Dewhirst, Alison Hagreen and Les Budskin.

Thank you very much for being here. You have the floor.

PRINCE GEORGE BRAIN
INJURED GROUP SOCIETY

B. Dewhirst: Thank you. This is a big opportunity for us, and we really appreciate the venue. We’ve already figured out our names. I’m Bob, Alison is the executive director in our brain injured group, and Les is one of our survivors.

I understand that the committee has identified three priorities for this current series of meetings. We’re pleased to address the standing committee’s investigation into service improvements. This should be given a priority.

The majority of the 22,000 British Columbians that sustain a brain injury annually are affected in the prime of their lives. Most begin their changed lives within the acute medical system. The care they receive here in the north is excellent, despite the absence of many of the specialists and medical treatments available to those in the Lower Mainland, Victoria or the Okanagan.

When we speak of funding for brain injury services, many suggest that this is the responsibility of the health authority. Post-acute therapy is definitely the domain of Northern Health, and few within that system would deny that such services are lacking.

[3:50 p.m.]

The rates of unfilled positions for physiotherapists, occupational therapists and, in particular, speech and language pathologists in the north, is three times the provincial average. We place our full support behind those who are advocating for the training of medical professionals in regional campuses. Meanwhile, we know that Northern Health is actively exploring some creative solutions to fill this void.

In addition to regional disparities within our public system, there is tremendous disparity in services and other benefits available to those who are injured as a result of an insurable accident and those who are not. Despite the recent closure of ICBC’s rehab department, people who are injured in a motor vehicle crash or at work benefit from traditional therapy, one-to-one personal support and financial advantages that far outstrip those who are injured in a fall or as a result of a brain tumour or other non-insured activity. When you look around our beautiful province and see luxury residential programs and whole teams of private therapists, please realize that these services are not available to the guy who is assaulted or the woman who slipped on the ice in her own driveway.

Like all brain injury societies in British Columbia, Prince George BIG serves people who are living with a brain injury regardless of how their injury was sustained. More than 100 new individuals are accepted for services annually at PGBIG, and we serve more than 370 individuals every year. We know that there are many more that would benefit, but we don’t advertise our services.

We couldn’t deal with a larger influx than we already have, so we assist people to navigate a highly complex and bureaucratic world of disability pensions, money management, medical and other health services, housing, employment, relationships, anger and emotional management and a myriad of other personal issues. We help people adapt to their new lives after injury through one-to-one and classroom-based educational services.

We are especially proud of several of our internally developed programs. In 2017, UNBC program evaluation of our Rebuilding After Brain Injury program concluded that there is significant evidence that survivors are gaining tangible hope that their lives are getting better due to the Rebuilding program. The program was recognized in 2016 by B.C. Brain Injury Association as the best-practices program, and we are currently readying the program to share with other brain injury societies in B.C.

We run an amended Rebuilding program weekly, as well, at the Prince George Regional Correction Centre. For this program, we were awarded the 2017 Healthier You Award as well as the provincial justice and public services safety sector award. More than 100 inmates and 120 correctional centre employees have participated in the program, and staff at the facility have many positive stories to tell.

We do nothing for survivors of domestic assault, though we know many of these people are living with acquired brain injury. We do nothing, as well, for children, despite our knowledge that up to 10 percent of children have an undiagnosed brain injury.

Far too many of the folks we serve live in homeless shelters or worse, partly because we are not able to provide the personal supports necessary for people to maintain housing. Young survivors of brain injury continue to live in long-term care facilities designed to serve seniors, as there’s only one five-bed residential resource in the north.

We don’t put up posters in the hospital inviting calls, and we don’t provide support to families who are struggling with a member recently admitted with a brain injury. We perform little or no outreach or follow-up reviews for those who stop accessing our services.

[3:55 p.m.]

Like so many service issues, long-term, reliable funding is required. Expecting health authorities to do it all is not reasonable. More than 50 percent of traumatic brain injuries are the direct result of motor vehicle accidents. Is the Ministry of Transportation doing its part? More than 10 percent of brain injuries are the result of an assault. Should the Ministry of Justice be at the table? Nearly every ministry bears some connection to brain injury, so getting everyone to the table isn’t an option. Our request is being made to the government as a whole.

Thanks to the standing committee recommendations and support of MLAs on both sides of the House, the Brain Injury Alliance has distributed $3 million to our partners across B.C. in the past three years and will do the same over the next three years. These funds have made a huge difference to many lives.

There are many communities and survivors unserved or underserved. We ask that this committee recognize the needs by recommending increased funding and permanent recognition in the provincial budget.

I’d like to introduce to you Les Budskin. He’ll tell you, from a survivor’s perspective, why local brain injury societies are vital to recovery from an injury, even when many years from the injury have since lapsed.

L. Budskin: Hi, my name is Les Budskin. I’m a member of the Prince George Brain Injured Group. First of all, I want to thank you guys for letting me come here and speak.

When I was 14 years old, I tried to go and stop a fight, and as I attempted to do it, I didn’t know that one person had a baseball bat on him. He hit me in the back of the head. I had to learn to walk and talk over again. During that time of learning the stuff, it’s like my eyes closed, and I lost nine, ten months where I don’t remember anything. I don’t know what I did, where I was or even what I was doing.

If it wasn’t for a nurse that lived in my community…. I’m from a little town in northern Alberta of about 600 or so. If I didn’t have that nurse that lived in our community, I don’t know where I’d be. She took the time out of her life schedule to help me to learn to walk and talk again.

In those ten months of learning that, I only remember holding onto rails a couple of times and reading Dr. Seuss books to start helping me speak again. At that time, I don’t even know if I thanked her, because I can’t remember everything. I lost a couple of years in my life — where I don’t remember anything. After that, I lived on the streets in Edmonton because I didn’t…. My head wasn’t all there. I didn’t know this or that or what.

After my injury, I was always mad. I’m 46 years old. After that, I was probably mad for 29 years. That’s all I knew. I know it was up here. It was a voice making me mad. Everything would get me mad, and the more I tried to fight it and stop it, it made it worse. I found that out by going to the Prince George Brain Injured Group. The worst thing to do when you’ve got a brain injury is to fight what’s happening to you, because it’ll only make it ten times worse than you’re already feeling.

For years, I was living on the street and this and that, and living that lifestyle. I came here in 2010. My buddy’s wife is a nurse. Over the years, I tried to tell doctors what was happening to me, but it was always…. If I was drinking or if I was doing drugs, they always said: “Well, that’s the cause of it.” It’s like: “Oh, okay.”

When I saw my friend’s wife, she started asking me questions. I must not have looked good to her that day, so she asked me how I was feeling. I told her, and I told her a little bit about my life, of the accidents. She told me: “Les, I’m not a specialist, you know. I’m just a nurse, but what it sounds like to me is you might have a brain injury.” She goes: “Maybe go and check out the Prince George Brain Injured Group.”

[4:00 p.m.]

The first time I went there, I walked by, and I saw other survivors coming out. They were in wheelchairs, canes. They were having a hard time walking. It took me two weeks to build up the courage to go walk in there just to check it out. You know, I thought, “Well, I know I have my moments. I have my times,” and this and that. But I didn’t know if I was that bad. And when I walked in there….

I lost my parents when I was ten years old. Nobody’s ever talked to me or looked at me like I was a human being since then, probably because of my lifestyle, living on the street. When I walked into that Prince George Brain Injured Group, that caseworker…. You know, I lost my dad when I was ten. Talking to her was like I was talking to my dad all over again, because I could feel the warmth and the caring. She actually cared about me, and my thought was: “How can you care about me? You just met me.” But she did. She talked to me like I was somebody, you know? Nobody’s ever talked to me like that since my dad did, so to me, that was huge. And it went like that the whole time.

As far as the Prince George Brain Injured Group helping me, it’s like…. Wow. They help me in every part of my life. It’s like I got life over again. I got my family. I got friends. I lost my family for seven, eight years, because of always being mad. They couldn’t take me anymore. They couldn’t handle it anymore, and I didn’t know what was happening. I just knew I was always mad. So I lost my family.

Ever since I’ve come back here and gone to the Prince George Brain Injured Group…. I took this Rebuilding course, and it was…. The only way I can explain it is, like, boom; like, wow. After I took the course…. It’s a 24-week course. Each week I went. When you’ve got a brain injury and stuff’s happening to you, you think you’re alone. So I thought I was alone for all these years: “I’m the only one it’s happening to, and if this is the way life is, I guess that’s the way life is going to go, and that’s the way it’s going to be for me.”

I didn’t know that I had another chance at life until I walked in the door at the Prince George Brain Injured Group. They’ve given me life, like I said. They’ve given me my family. I’ve got friends.

Because I didn’t go to school when I was younger, I never really received anything in my life. When I took the Rebuilding course, after the course, I got a diploma. I’ve never gotten anything like that in my life — never in my life. So when they gave me my diploma, I’m like: “Wow. My name on it and everything. Holy jeez.” You know, I’ve never gotten anything. I went home and cried for about an hour, because that was some sort of recognition for me. And I never would have gotten it if I didn’t go to the Prince George Brain Injured Group.

So that place has given me lots of firsts in my life, lots of first things that happened to me. There’s other stuff that happened, but first things…. I’ve had a few. I tell them: “This is the first time this stuff has ever happened to me in my life.

Like a few other members…. You know, the good thing about the Prince George Brain Injured Group is: it doesn’t matter who you are, what colour you are, how old you are, whatever. There’s no judgement there whatsoever, and that’s what I find amazing. Wow. Nobody’s judged. Nobody’s talked down to or this or that.

Whereas you go out into the public, and you see it, and you hear it. That’s why I really like the Prince George Brain Injured Group, because there’s no judgement there whatsoever. You can do whatever. Nobody’s going to laugh at you. Nobody’s going to say little words behind your back or this or that. It doesn’t matter if you have a university education or grade 4. Everybody’s treated the same, and everybody treats everybody the same.

They always tell me this is not right to say, but you know, at the Prince George Brain Injured Group…. I tell my friends: “You want to meet some real, honest people in your life, man — some real, honest people? Go there.” Because there, we’ve already lost something. We’ve already lost a part of our lives, and we’ve got nothing to lose. So why should we lie and this and that? I see everybody help everybody out.

I talk to other people, because I know what it’s done for me, and it’s helped me out so much. Like I said, it’s given me a life I’ve never had before. When I talk to the hundreds of them, I always get the same answer. I don’t even want to think about it. Where would we be without the Prince George Brain Injured Group?

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much. The time’s up. We don’t have time for questions. But you know what? I’m glad that we heard that. Thank you so much for your story, Les — how important it is to share that story with us and with the public — and all the work you do at the brain injury centre. It’s obviously extremely important, and it obviously made a huge impact on your life. Thank you very, very much to all three of you.

I’d like to take a two-minute break. We’re just going to go off-air for two minutes.

The committee recessed from 4:05 p.m. to 4:10 p.m.

[B. D’Eith in the chair.]

B. D’Eith (Chair): Next I’d like to call the Research Universities Council of British Columbia — Robin Ciceri and Blair Littler.

The floor is yours.

RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES
COUNCIL OF B.C.

R. Ciceri: Thank you very much for the opportunity to come and present to you all today. We are here representing the Research Universities Council, which is made up of UBC; SFU; UVic; UNBC, where we just visited today; Thompson Rivers; and Royal Roads University. I know that you are all familiar with post-secondary education in B.C. from your ridings and what an incredible system that we have.

We’re here to talk about two areas of focus. One is students, obviously, as the focal point of all post-secondary education in British Columbia, and the other is around post-secondary education as part of the economy and an economic development component and a key driver of a strategy.

One of the things that we see so clearly now with students, and that you would see as well, is the increasing complexity of the issues that students are facing. It’s really changed the learning paradigm, and the nature of students has changed, as well, across age and gender and diversity, moving in and out of post-secondary education.

The other feature, in terms of the needs of students…. There’s also a recognition of course, as we know, around labour market and demand for students. But there’s also a recognition that, as I said, post-secondary education really actually propels an economy and is a key component. We’d like to speak to both of those areas.

I’d also like to draw your attention to the fact that all 25 public institutions in the province are coming together to send a written submission in to the committee. The submission reflects a presentation that three of the presidents have made last year from institutions across the system to talk about supports for students and, really, some fairly critical areas that are being faced by students and by the institutions.

The first area that I’d like to highlight, in terms of supporting students, is mental health. I noted on the news today that it’s the fifth anniversary of the tragic anniversary of Amanda Todd, and in recognizing mental health issues, buildings around the world are being lit in purple today. I think the issues around social media and the complexity today really highlight the pressures that students are under and that institutions, as they try to be responsive, continue to face pressures.

You’ll see that a recent study of Canadian post-secondary students found that approximately 25 percent of students reported a mental health issue, such as depression, anxiety, schizophrenia. There are many kinds of new programs that are offered to try to support students, but the pressure is continuing.

You will also recall that last year the institutions all brought in policies on sexual violence and misconduct, under the Sexual Violence and Misconduct Policy Act. That is something that institutions are responding to.

Another key area of commitment for the institutions is for Indigenous learners and very much supporting the commitment to the UN declaration on the rights of Indigenous people and also the B.C. institutions’ commitment to the calls for action in supporting Indigenous learners. That proposal, as I said, will be coming forward as a written submission.

One of the things we asked the committee to consider last year was to reinvest $50 million that was taken out of the system in the period of 2013-14 to 2015-16. This year we’re asking you to consider recommending to the Legislative Assembly an investment in students for these areas of mental health, areas of sexual violence and also in supporting students and Indigenous learners.

Linked to this, and really key in terms of the overall prosperity of the province, is what we’re referring to as talent. Engineering and technology are key. You’ll see on page 3 of the submission, and I’ll refer you to…. It’s a fairly small map, but it actually shows the distribution of engineers that have graduated in B.C. and where they go to live and work. This is the result of a survey that B.C. Stats does in terms of student outcomes. It’s a really tremendous survey that provides us a lot of good information.

[4:15 p.m.]

You can see that engineering alumni from B.C.’s universities hold positions in all regions of the province and are key to the economy in all areas. That’s not just in new technology industries. That includes forestry, mining and all the resource industries as well. Technology in the digital economy is just…. The speed and change that is occurring is really transforming the economy.

At the same time, there’s a real concern that there are not enough engineers in the province and not enough graduates being produced from the institutions in engineering and computer science, life sciences and STEM-related areas.

There’s a table on page 4 that shows you a comparison of B.C. with Alberta, Ontario and Quebec. You can see that the number of B.C. engineering bachelor degrees per capita is half of those of other provinces.

There’s also huge student demand for these areas, so much so that it is increasing the level of grade point averages so that in order to get into UBC, for example, in engineering, you need a grade point average of 93 percent. There’s a lot of unmet student demand. Parents raise this issue too.

There has been a tremendous shift, though, in the institutions. In the last ten years, from the period of 2005-2015, the reallocation internally saw an increase in engineering programs of about 55 percent — in an increase in the expansion of programs. But there’s clearly more that needs to be done.

There’s a proposal on behalf of the institutions to increase the number of spaces by about 3,300 new students. The institutions are planning and have been proposing this for some time. An infusion of the $58 million in operating capital and we would see a tremendous increase in the overall production in four to five years, in terms of students and graduates in engineering, computer science and in math-related areas going into our economy — dispersed into those areas that you saw earlier in the map on the previous table.

Graduate students are often unrecognized as, really, a key component of the economy. RUCBC welcomes the recent commitment to introduce a graduate student scholarship. That will actually make B.C. competitive again with other provinces. There’s always been a feeling and a recognition that graduate students from B.C. will often be attracted to other provinces because of the scholarships that they’ve been offering. So this is a tremendous opportunity, and it’s very, very welcome.

You can see, again, on the bottom of page 5 that when comparing master’s degrees in peer provinces, B.C. is far behind. We’d like to recommend that the committee consider an investment in new graduate space expansion in the universities.

I’m going to move on to post-secondary infrastructure. The new government has made a commitment in their platform and as government to a $7 billion increase in construction in areas of transportation, hospitals and schools. We’d like to propose that post-secondary education be a dedicated component of that strategy.

There are four key elements to this proposal.

The first is self-financing, or the permission to self-finance, student residences, which would be constructed with their own revenue streams provided by the universities, but the universities would be given the approval to borrow to self-finance this. Currently, they are restricted from doing that. This would provide tremendous capacity in terms of affordable student housing for students and also really alleviate pressure in the communities around housing, as students without student residence have gone in and taken up the supply of the rental housing.

Another element is new priorities for capital infrastructure in terms of new programming — obviously, engineering being a key piece and a key feature that would be part of this new programming.

As well, enhanced routine minor capital in terms of the maintenance that’s occurring — the deferred maintenance across the system. One institution, for example, in a 2011 report, found that 53 percent of one institution’s buildings were in poor condition, while 27 percent were in fair condition. So there’s a real need to continue the routine capital that’s been invested.

Another area is seismic. The K-to-12 system has invested a lot in seismic upgrading, and that is something that is definitely required with post-secondary.

[4:20 p.m.]

One of the last things that I’ll talk about is research and innovation. I point you specifically to the B.C. knowledge development fund. It’s been a tremendous fund since it was brought in, in 1998. Recently though, in the last three years, there’s been a restriction on the kinds of projects that are funded.

We would like to recommend that the criteria for funding projects be returned to the original principles, which would include both economic and social benefits and not be restricted only to commercialization and job creation, but would include a social component, which is very important.

In the submission, we point to one example that we think, in terms of language acquisition, would be an ideal project that should have been funded. And we’d like the committee to consider other areas of research and innovation.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Just one comment before we go to questions. There were a number of presentations we’ve had around, specifically, mental illness in universities and colleges. Many of the students, for example, are asking for a dedicated amount of money, as opposed to giving additional money at the discretion of the universities, because that’s been part of the problem in their view. What is your opinion on dedicated money for these types of services?

R. Ciceri: We would actually agree and recommend targeted investments. The universities are keen to invest in mental health. Targeted funding has been a feature of funding of the institutions for a number of years, so it’s something that the universities are used to. In fact, the recommendation is to put in money specifically for mental health, sexual violence — those areas of student support.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay, I just wanted that clarified.

A. Weaver: I’m really excited by this submission, as you might have imagined — particularly a recognition of the need for increasing our capacity in engineering. I’ll come to that in a second. But it’s very timely, it’s very constructive, and I do appreciate it.

I have a specific question on a very innovative project that’s being put forward by a group, the Squamish Nation, in partnership with the town of Squamish, a local developer and all the deans of engineering who support it, as well as the University of British Columbia. Have you got a specific recommendation in terms of that institute in Squamish, or not?

R. Ciceri: No, we don’t. In fact, we would leave that with the university that’s responsible, for moving ahead on any initiative, so we don’t specifically have that included.

A. Weaver: As a follow-up, have you got specific recommendations as to where the engineers should be trained? One of the reasons why I say that is that UNBC has been trying to get an engineering program. They find they participate with the UBC program, but their students end up down in Vancouver. Have you got recommendations on that?

R. Ciceri: We do have a tailored proposal for the $53 million across all six institutions, which includes UNBC. So yes, we do.

S. Cadieux: Nice to see you, Robin. I have a specific question as well, relating to the engineering, because I think it’s something we’re all very focused on in terms of understanding that that’s an area of significant need in the province.

Just because it’s in here…. The fact that because we have fewer seats, the GPA to get in is going up. Do you have a comparable GPA for Ontario and Quebec with their numbers?

R. Ciceri: I don’t, off the top of my head, but I can certainly give that to you.

S. Cadieux: It’s not…. It’s not a big financial question. It’s just a curiosity.

R. Ciceri: I’m sorry. I don’t, but I can get that for you.

J. Brar: Thanks for your presentation. So you are asking for 3,300 new spaces?

R. Ciceri: Yes.

J. Brar: My question to you is from a practical point of view. Do you have the faculty capacity? That’s one thing I would like to know, because the student is one thing and the faculty is, of course, a different thing.

The total proposed money, dollars you are asking for, is $58 million. Is that operating, or does that also include the capital side of it too?

R. Ciceri: In response to your last question, that’s operating. It doesn’t include the capital.

In terms of hiring, there is a ramp-up phase, so this represents the first three years. In the costs for three years, you would see planning money and then ramping up, which includes hiring faculty and, in some cases, for some institutions, adding the capital to accommodate new students.

J. Brar: So you have the faculty. I assume that you have the faculty.

R. Ciceri: We certainly have the faculty right now to start to introduce new students. Absolutely. Then as the ramp-up occurs moving up to the 3,300 seats, new faculty would be hired, in addition, to support those additional students.

[4:25 p.m.]

J. Brar: One last quick question. We have heard a number of presentations from students. One of the demands they have listed to us is that there’s no cap for international student fees in colleges and universities.

The institutions are raising…. Increasing fees is the way they’re going. There has been a 400 percent increase in the recent past, they mention. What is your position on that when it comes to the international student fees?

R. Ciceri: International students are part of the whole culture and environment in terms of globalization. But from a financial point of view, as well, international students help to provide the resources that fund a lot of the extra activities and supports that universities offer to their domestic students, as well as helping to subsidize more spaces.

In fact, the research universities overproduce from what they are funded for. So they have more students than what they actually receive funding for, and a lot of that is because they have international student revenue that helps to diversify their revenue base.

P. Milobar: So the extra seats that you’re seeking for engineering, the seats that you’re currently looking for…. That’s in keeping with the original ask where, say, for a Thompson Rivers and a UNBC, you’re taking those two-year students, so you’re really only having to add that extra two years into those programs. Then there’s a mix of some other completely brand-new seats, which would be years 1 through 4, in other institutions and disciplines.

R. Ciceri: Yes. It very much depends on what the individual institution has said, but in terms of UNBC, that’s correct. Thompson Rivers as well — the original proposal.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thank you very much. We’re out of time. I appreciate your presentation. Thank you very much for coming.

Next up, we actually have Kwantlen Faculty Association via conference call. This is Suzanne Pearce. Are you there, Suzanne?

S. Pearce: I am.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you for presenting. If you’d like to go ahead, we are all ears.

KWANTLEN FACULTY ASSOCIATION

S. Pearce: Thank you so much. We had hoped to see you in person on Friday in Surrey, but due to some scheduling difficulties we are doing this by phone. Hopefully, my voice doesn’t give out. I’m dealing with a bit of a cough here.

Good afternoon. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to the committee about priorities for the 2018 provincial budget. As stated, my name is Suzanne Pearce. I’m the secretary-treasurer for the Kwantlen Faculty Association. The Kwantlen Faculty Association represents about 1,000 faculty who work and teach at Kwantlen Polytechnic University’s four campuses located south of the Fraser in the Lower Mainland.

Kwantlen Polytechnic University, or KPU, was established by the B.C. government 36 years ago. We started out as a community college, became a university college and, in 2008, became Kwantlen Polytechnic University. Our enrolment base has grown steadily over those 36 years and now sits at almost 20,000 full- and part-time students.

One very important feature of our institution is that it is the only open-access public post-secondary university in the South Fraser region west of Abbotsford. Given the growth in this region, the increase in number of eligible students in our area has been, and will continue to be, significant.

As a special-purpose teaching university, KPU provides students with a comprehensive range of post-secondary education options leading to degrees, diplomas, certificates and completed apprenticeships. KPU also provides avenues for adult learners to re-engage in post-secondary learning by completing their adult graduation Dogwood diploma or by simply getting the necessary prerequisites for entry into different streams within the public post-secondary education system.

We’d to thank the new government for moving rapidly to right a policy wrong made three years ago. Less than one month after being sworn in, the Premier and Ministers of Education and Advanced Education announced that funding to adult basic education and English-language learning programs would be reinstated and that these programs would be tuition-free again. By restoring funding to these areas in time for the September semester, we have seen strong enrolments in our English-language studies programs at our institution.

[4:30 p.m.]

These programs are life-changing, and we are tremendously proud of the work our faculty members do in working with students of all ages and backgrounds in these programs to help them achieve their goals.

We urge the committee to recommend the reinstatement of funding at the earliest possible opportunity for other developmental programs which continue to be tuition-bearing — in particular, to the Career Choices and Life Success Program for women, a valuable program that is currently under threat at KPU due to the barriers created by the continued requirement of tuition.

In the remainder of my time before the committee today, I’d like to speak about how the core issues impacting post-secondary education today — systemic funding issues, tuition fees and institutional budget mandates — relate locally to KPU. We share the same motivation — to deliver the best educational opportunities possible for learners in B.C. — as the other member locals of the Federation of Post-Secondary Educators. Our world is becoming more connected, and the need for citizens and workers to have access to choices in post-secondary studies is increasing every year.

The importance of investing in post-secondary education for all has never been greater, but this has not been reflected in post-secondary funding and governance over the past 16 years. Provincially, operating grants are the largest investment that the provincial government makes in post-secondary institutions. Today grants are $18 million lower than they were four years ago. After accounting for higher education inflation, this public investment is actually 20 percent lower than it was in 2001.

To put this in context, 25 years ago institutions received operating grants that amounted to 80 percent of their revenues. Now most of the large institutions receive just over 40 percent. KPU’s 2016-17 audited statements support this figure, with the provincial grant contributing approximately 44 percent of total revenues. Without stable funding, institutions have had to find other ways to bring in revenue to cover their costs, mainly by increasing tuition. Since 2001, tuition revenue has increased by 400 percent. Government tuition revenues this past year were $1.828 billion, and are forecast to go up 6.1 percent per year.

Even with domestic tuition fees restricted to a 2 percent annual increase, students have seen their costs go up dramatically. Whether the institution has added more student fees or worked around the 2 percent cap by suspending programs and making subtle changes in order to increase the tuition charge when the course is relaunched, students cannot keep up with the increased costs. At KPU, changes to the nursing program saw per-credit tuition for a foundation year increase to $265 per credit, from $139, through these types of changes.

B.C. students are graduating with record-high student debt, typically around $35,000, all while they’re contending with astounding increases to costs of living. Many students graduate with more than the average. We’ve received stories of students graduating with $60,000 to $160,000 in student debt. It is difficult to imagine when these students will be able to pay off this debt and start saving for the next chapter in their lives.

We also see this shift in funding in the growing number of international students attending institutions in B.C., now making up almost 20 percent of the total student population. International students have become a major source of revenue through the vastly higher tuition fees that they pay. They make incredibly valuable contributions to the institutions and classes they attend, and should be valued as learners, rather than purely seen as a source of revenue. Proper support should also be put in place to assure their success.

It will be a large challenge to correct a situation that has evolved over more than a decade, but there are many opportunities to begin to address the situation and provide some relief to students. One of the first measures that can be taken to relieve institutional funding pressure is to end the practice of tying a percentage of operating grants to the jobs [audio interrupted] 2014 skills-for-jobs blueprint.

Currently up to 25 percent of operating grants must be spent by institutions on programs that support the blueprint’s definition of the top 100 jobs, despite a market and educational reality that may point to the need for scarce resources to be directed elsewhere — a major cause of decreased choice within post-secondary institutions with the removal of envelope funding.

[4:35 p.m.]

We propose reinstating envelope funding to provide insurance that core programs will continue to be available to all, no matter where you live. Similarly, pragmatic options exist to reduce the financial burden that post-secondary students are experiencing.

We commend the government for the actions they have already taken to make post-secondary education more affordable, including the decision to lower the interest rate on student loans to prime and their goal of making student loans interest-free.

While this does not address the underlying problem of unsustainably high tuition fees, it will allow students to pay down the principal of their loans far more quickly and, therefore, pay off their loan much earlier than is currently possible. We urge the government to make student loans interest-free as soon as possible.

We also look forward to seeing the details around the government’s proposed $1,000 completion grant. This is a novel and innovative idea and is a positive start. We encourage this committee to review this proposal within the context of a broader strategy regarding non-repayable grants to find the most cost-effective manner of providing some relief to students.

Finally, we ask the government to follow the recommendations of this committee from the previous three years and change the institution mandate letters and capital funding requirements to allow institutions to finance self-supported capital projects.

In summary, we are at a challenging point in the post-secondary system in B.C. Sixteen years of underfunding have meant that educational choices and opportunities available to students have declined, as the importance of a post-secondary education has increased. However, the implementation of the approaches we have outlined and the actions this government has already taken demonstrate progress is possible.

By revising the post-secondary funding formula, making practical changes to make post-secondary education more affordable to students and revising the institutional mandate letters, we can begin to reverse the trend in the post-secondary system in B.C.

Through these actions today, we can ensure we are providing the best possible post-secondary education of tomorrow.

Thank you, and I’d be happy to try to answer any of your questions.

R. Leonard: Thanks for your presentation. We’ve heard from a number of students unions, particularly, regarding the international students and the lack of a cap and the diversity of increases that have happened in institutions throughout British Columbia.

Do you know or have access to the percentage of increases that Kwantlen has seen and any comparison to other institutions?

S. Pearce: I don’t have them off the top of my head, but that’s something that I could find out.

R. Leonard: Okay, thank you.

B. D’Eith (Chair): I was curious. Are you putting a written submission in? This submission, are you putting what you just said in or…?

S. Pearce: I can, yes.

B. D’Eith (Chair): That would be great. You have until October 16 at 5 p.m. I mean, it is transcribed, but it’s always nice to have the presentation if we can have it in writing as well.

S. Pearce: Yes, I can certainly do that.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you. Well, I really appreciate the presentation and everything you’re doing as a faculty association and the university. Thank you very, very much, and I’m glad we were able to get you in today.

Next I’d like to call CUPE B.C. — Paul Faoro and Justin Schmid.

CANADIAN UNION OF
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES B.C.

P. Faoro: Good afternoon, committee. I need a timer. I don’t know where my time starts.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Ready, set, go.

P. Faoro: It’s started now? Thank you. Anyways, I appreciate being here. This is truly a lot of interest, as you would know, in this province.

Again, my name is Paul Faoro. I’m the president of CUPE British Columbia. I’m here with Justin Schmid, who is one of our staff members and who is our legislative coordinator.

I’m here just to let you know, first off, that CUPE British Columbia represents 87,000 workers now. We are the largest union in this province. There is no doubt our members are affected by the budget priorities, like all British Columbians, as citizens receiving vital services and as public employees.

[4:40 p.m.]

After 16 years of a starvation diet of provincial investments in public services under the former government, it’s clear that the new government has a great deal of work ahead to restore much of what has been cut. While we are realistic in our understanding of challenges facing the government, our members are hungry for change.

We’re making a series of recommendations, 17 of them, in the submission that you should have before you. In the interests of time, I’m not going to read the submission. We’re just going to summarize those recommendations.

First off, restore progressive taxation. Our society functions best when everyone pays their fair share. For too long, we believe, that hasn’t been the case. The first recommendation is pretty simple: analyze the current taxation structure for the provincial government through a progressive lens and enact taxation changes that will focus on the word “fairness.”

We applaud the current government’s change in the 2017 budget update for reducing the MSP by 50 percent. In many of those cases, those premiums are paid in part or whole by an employer in lieu of wage increases. Our second recommendation is that MSP savings not be clawed back from provincial ministries and that those ministries be directed to reinvest those savings into health benefits or wage improvements.

Public infrastructure. The provincial government should be harnessing its own borrowing power for public infrastructure and then operating that infrastructure, instead of regressive user fees that pad corporate profit margins. Our recommendation is very simple: immediately cease funding Partnerships British Columbia. Recommendation 4: only invest in public infrastructure that is publicly financed, maintained and operated.

Local government resources. Cities and towns are on the front lines of many challenges, such as climate change, the widening gap between rich and poor, and the aging population. Over the last two decades, senior levels of government have downloaded responsibilities to local governments. You’ve heard this.

Municipalities in B.C. still depend primarily on property taxes and user fees to pay their bills. In recommendation 5, we believe that there should be an investigation of progressive models for fair taxation, and make new progressive models of revenue generation available to municipalities. At UBCM, this has come up extensively.

Emergency health care. Although underfunding has been a chronic issue in all health sectors, significant problems are unique to ambulance paramedics, caused by funding shortages by the previous government. Recommendation 6: immediately increase resources to paramedic services to ensure the safety of British Columbians.

Post-secondary education. I’ll spend a bit of time on this one. Total funding for the post-secondary sector has continued to decline since 2001. It has declined from 2001. Total provincial funding for the sector in 2001-2002 was $1.9 billion, and 15 years later total government funding for the sector was just $2.05 billion. Recommendation 7: restore post-secondary funding to 2001-2002 levels in current dollars and eliminate the present shortfall. Recommendation 8: ensure that funding levels are high enough that post-secondary institutions remain majority government funded and therefore public institutions over the long term.

We commend the current government’s decision to eliminate tuition fees for adult basic education and English language learning, the commitment to an expanded tuition waiver program for former youth in care and the commitment to eliminating interest on student loans. We hope that the government will continue to reduce barriers facing students pursuing post-secondary education. Further, our recommendation 9: decrease tuition and offer more repayable student aid.

The Labour Relations Board and employment standards branch. There is a theme to all these points that you’re probably picking up. The Labour Relations Board and the employment standards branch desperately need more funding to operate effectively. An increase in funding to the Labour Relations Board would allow greater flexibility to hire additional staff.

[4:45 p.m.]

Currently, it’s our opinion that the labour board does not have enough staff to properly function. Recommendation 10: significantly increase the funding for the Labour Relations Board and the employment standards branch.

Public libraries. The provincial government funding has decreased from 21 percent of library revenue in 1986 to a mere 5 percent today. I don’t need to tell you, but libraries provide essential and unique public services that should not be overlooked. They’re often the only accessible indoor public spaces in our communities. Library workers — our members — provide vital services in every community across this wonderful province, yet library jobs are often precarious. Recommendation 11: increase provincial grants to public libraries in British Columbia.

K-to-12 education. We represent 27,000 K-to-12 workers in this province. Underfunding in our education system has been substantial and chronic. While improvements have been made in some areas regarding education assistance, we’re seeing cutbacks in crucial areas. Most notable in these areas is custodial services. Our custodian workers across the province have raised concerns about their inability to perform the work that they know is vital to maintain safe and healthy learning environments. Understaffing and overwork is a health and safety issue and needs to be fixed.

Recommendation 12: that adequate and stable, predictable funding be allocated in K to 12 so that school districts can meet their obligations to deliver accessible, quality education.

Recommendation 13: that budget provisions for a K-to-12 system contain funding necessary to pay for full-time hours for support staff. We have education assistants working 4½ hours, 5½ hours — a mixed bag across all of the school districts in this province. It’s out of control. Those workers should be actually made full time. They should be looking after our kids.

In 2002, the Liberal government implemented a per-pupil funding model based on district-level student enrolment, doing away with the practice of funding education on a program-cost basis on a provincial level. There are numerous problems. There’s not enough time today in this presentation, but we believe…. Recommendation 14 says that a review of the funding formula for school boards be undertaken with broad stakeholder input, and, in addition, examine the fairness of the distribution formula.

CUPE B.C. believes that strong public education is the best way to ensure that education is inclusive, equitable and accessible. Public education is, no doubt, the backbone of our democratic society. We also believe that funding for private schools needs to be frozen or actually stopped. That’s our recommendation 15.

Recommendation 16. I realize I’m going quickly, but I’m cognizant of the time. Support the education mandate of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the new K-to-12 curriculum, and ensure continued progress in support of Aboriginal students in British Columbia.

Finally, community social services. Community social services workers are among the lowest-paid employees, providing front-line services to British Columbians. Many of the members in this sector are working several jobs to make up full-time hours and are still not making a living wage. Over the past 16 years, this sector has had unprecedented cuts and, I would argue, attacks. People providing services in the communities for our most vulnerable shouldn’t be thinking about whether or not they can make it to the food bank to pick up food for their children and race between jobs.

Recommendation 17, and our last recommendation: immediately increase the budget for social services delivery in the province to increase service levels and properly compensate workers delivering those services.

It’s hard to talk about every sector that we are in, in British Columbia, in ten minutes, but there’s a common theme in our presentation. You’ve probably been hearing that common theme, and it’s about funding. More funding needs to go into public services. That would sum up our presentation.

I hope you do take the time to read our submission. You should have copies, and we will be submitting it on line as well. Thank you for your time, and thank you for going across the province on a difficult task. Appreciate it.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks, Paul.

[4:50 p.m.]

S. Cadieux: Thanks for your presentation. There are lots of recommendations in there, some of which have immediate cost implications and some that have longer-term cost implications. In the immediate ones, I can add up more than $1 billion without talking about social services. How much are you thinking the social services spending needs to increase?

P. Faoro: Ms. Cadieux, we haven’t allocated dollar amounts to these. These are areas. This is for the government, for consideration.

S. Cadieux: No, I understand that.

P. Faoro: I appreciate that.

S. Cadieux: But you’re asking this committee to make a recommendation to government on increasing spending.

P. Faoro: We’re asking you to look at that area and look at the dollars put in there and to prioritize it.

S. Cadieux: Okay. Well, if we were going to prioritize the 14 or 15 recommendations and the probably more than a $1½ billion that those items would immediately impact the budget on, what would your first thing be, if you had to prioritize?

P. Faoro: The first thing I would do is the first recommendation and look at the taxation system in this province and actually make it fair. Under the previous government, everyday British Columbians were hammered by the last government. That’s where I would start.

A. Weaver: Your recommendation 7 deals with restoring post-secondary funding to 2001-2002 levels. I’m obviously someone from that sector. I do have some concerns about that, unless that’s targeted. Many of the cuts have been to the support staff in the universities.

Can I assume that when you’re talking about restoring funding, you’re talking about providing the services that cause the academic institutions to function? Because if you have whole bunch more faculty with nobody helping them out, it’s just not going to work.

P. Faoro: Mr. Weaver, you’ve hit the nail on the head exactly. There is no doubt that while faculty are an important part of…. And there’s no doubt there would be justification for faculty levels, and I’ll let other organizations talk about that. I can tell you from a support staff system at those colleges and universities, they have been clawed back. They are working shorter and shorter hours. They are, I would argue, the system or the engine of keeping those institutions open. I know you’re very familiar with them.

A. Weaver: I do have a quick follow-up, but I’d like to give you an anecdote. At the University of Victoria now, faculty have to take their own recycling and own trash out. We no longer have CUPE staff doing that for us. That’s where the cuts play out.

In terms of libraries, that used to be a line item in the provincial budget, and then it used to be a line item in the education budget. Now it’s no longer a line item. I understand that something like $14 million going…. Do you have a specific number in terms of a recommendation for public libraries?

P. Faoro: We don’t. I will just answer your question. We’ve been analyzing whether or not the libraries fall under the right ministry. While we didn’t put that in our presentation, we’re wondering if it doesn’t make more sense that they fall under the municipal kind of lens rather than the educational lens, given that the funding is coming from local government.

We’ve been actually putting a lot of energy on that, but we don’t have a specific number. We’ll certainly get back to you if there are….

A. Weaver: Because right now, it is in the education budget.

P. Faoro: Absolutely. You are correct.

J. Brar: Thank you, Paul, and thank you, Justin. I know you have to come that far from there to make your presentation, so thanks for coming.

Almost 17 of your recommendations basically fall under the key priorities of this government, which is affordability and to improve services. So thank you for that. How much we can invest — of course, time will tell. It depends how much we have the room for, and certainly, that does fall under our key priorities that way.

I think you made it pretty clear, but just to confirm, are you saying that we’re only paying 5 percent of the public library funding?

P. Faoro: That’s what our research department has provided us. Certainly, we will confirm that number, and we will follow up confirming that fact. But we have a team of researchers, and that was a number that they’ve briefed to me.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Paul, unfortunately, we’re out of time. I’m sure we could be here all day, and I’d love to take this off line and have a more fulsome discussion of these 17 recommendations. But thank you very much for both of you coming up, and we really appreciate your time.

P. Faoro: Thank you to all the committee again for what you’re doing on behalf of every British Columbian. Thank you very much.

B. D’Eith (Chair): All right. Next up we have the Northern Development Initiative Trust — Joel McKay and Evan Saugstad.

B. Gendron: Evan couldn’t make it. I’m Brenda Gendron. I’m the chief financial officer.

[4:55 p.m.]

NORTHERN DEVELOPMENT
INITIATIVE TRUST

J. McKay: Thank you very much for taking the time to meet with us today.

My name is Joel McKay. I’m the chief executive officer of the Northern Development Initiative Trust. As we’ve said, beside me is Brenda Gendron, our chief financial officer. Unfortunately, our chair, Evan Saugstad, who’s based in Fort St. John, couldn’t be here today. I believe you have a handout in front of you that goes through a slide presentation.

We don’t have a specific ask for you today. Rather, what we’re here to do is highlight the success of a vehicle that was established by the province of British Columbia in 2004 and ’05, a sustainable financial model that’s made a big impact and difference in communities throughout central and northern B.C., and, as well, highlight some of the trends that we’re seeing in communities across northern B.C. on the economic development front.

Moving through the slide presentation…. Given the amount of time we have, I’m going to move quickly.

When the Northern Development Initiative Trust was originally established by the province in 2004 or ’05, it was invested with $185 million capital base divided between seven accounts. You can see on slide 2 how that actually breaks out. It was established with the intent that the best decisions for the economy in the north should be made in the north.

Moving on, you can see, on slide 3, the size of our service area. We cover approximately 75 percent of the province — from Lytton north to the Yukon border, from Valemount in the east to Haida Gwaii. We have 137 communities but only 330,000 people.

You can imagine that although we only have 330,000 people of the 4½ million people who call British Columbia home, the diverse needs and interests of those communities are as wide-ranging as what you might find in the Lower Mainland or the capital regional district, if not more. Certainly, the history of our region goes back in excess of 10,000 years.

As established through our act, we have ten key strategic investment priorities. Those are highlighted in slide 4 — everything from forestry and mining to supporting transportation, small business and agriculture. These are the things that we as a trust can spend our funds on.

Moving on to slide 5, the act gave the trust near complete freedom to determine how to use its funds. Although we were established through legislation, the trust is actually an independent, not-for-profit corporation. Although our legislation falls under the Ministry of Jobs, Trade and Technology, the trust is independent, at arms length from the province.

The goal, as originally set out, was to support strategic initiatives and objectives that move the dial on the economy in central and northern B.C. Who applies to Northern Development, and how do they get our funds?

Moving on, we have three key clients that apply to our funds on an annual basis — communities, which we define as local governments and First Nations, not-for-profit organizations throughout our service area, as well as businesses.

Moving on to the next slide, we have a well-defined process for adjudicating applications, all the way from submission to staff review and due diligence, approval and project implementation. Once a project is implemented and the reporting is submitted to us, only then are the funds dispersed. In this way, financially, we’re able to mitigate our risk as an organization but still move forward projects that matter to communities.

Moving on to the next slide, what kinds of results have we had in 13 years? Well, in 13 years, with that original capital infusion, the trust has supported 2,755 projects throughout our service area.

You can see on the next slide that our volume of projects has increased exponentially over the last two or three years. That’s an indication to us that our programs and services are responsive to the small communities in central and northern B.C. and that communities are accessing them on a regular basis.

Moving on from there, of our original $185 million capital infusion from the province, we’ve invested $166 million in the region to date. How do we do that? How are we a sustainable trust over time?

Moving on to the next slide, our model is such that we only make available for investment each year an amount that is equivalent to our long-term investment return. Our long-term investment return over 13 years is roughly 6½ percent. So we make roughly 7 percent of our capital base available for funding each year.

If you move on to the next slide, you can see what our actual return on investment is versus our average return since inception. Certainly, as with many organizations, we had an impact in 2008, but we also caught the upside when the market came back later on.

[5:00 p.m.]

The long-term return is what matters most to us, because that makes continuity available to the communities throughout our service area. They know that there’s going to be roughly X amount of dollars available through their trust annually to support their projects.

What does our structure look like? If you go on to the next slide, you see our starting capital base — the big circle — of $185 million. The next slide. Our total assets under management as of today are $265 million. But that number is misleading.

If you move on to the next slide, if you take out our operating endowment, which we are not allowed to use for project funding, the third-party funds that we manage on behalf of other organizations — including the connecting B.C. program on behalf of the province of British Columbia — and commitments we have to projects that have not yet been completed, we have roughly $185 million available for funding. We’re exactly where we started. Yet we’ve invested $166 million into our part of the province.

Moving on from there, you can see a pie chart that breaks down our funding accounts by region.

What do we have in the way of programs and services? Well, the trust creates programs that are sustainable. We take the same long-term view and approach to our programs and services that we do with our capital assets. We don’t create funding programs for a season or for a year. We create funding programs that answer demand from our communities, we research them with our communities, and they’re available on an annual basis or on quarterly intakes.

You can see, under our programs and services, we support everything from community foundation matching grants — establishing community foundations in our communities — to supporting community hall upgrades; recreation facility developments and improvements; major economic diversification infrastructure initiatives such as pools, arenas, marinas and airports; as well as marketing initiatives. And we have a number of business programs as well.

Moving on from there, I can highlight some of our projects that we’ve completed or funded more recently. Upgrades to the Sam Ketcham Pool in the Cariboo regional district. I don’t know if you’ve ever gone down a tube run or been to Barkerville, but the Shamrock and Magic Carpet tube run is a lot of fun, if you get out to Barkerville in the winter, and it’s helping that facility become a four-season destination tourism resort.

Beyond that, welcome to Prince George and our revitalized downtown. The picture you see around business facade improvement is a business before and after, right here on the corner of George Street and 5th. It was upgraded with help from the trust through our business facade improvement program. You’ll notice, as you spend time in downtown Prince George over the next day — or however long you’re here — that there’s been a number of improvements to our downtown businesses, many of them incentivized through this business facade improvement program.

We’re also big supporters of the creative economy. Two years ago we launched a festivals and events program to provide annual grants to destination festivals. Our music festivals are now getting an annual grant from the trust, everywhere on Haida Gwaii, the Edge of the World Music Festival, to the Robson Valley Music Festival to ArtsWells. That provides some long-term funding that they can access on an ongoing basis.

We are also the curators and the leaders of the largest Shop Local program in Canada, Love Northern B.C. You’ll see it here in Prince George as Love Downtown Prince George, but any community in central and northern B.C. has this program now, and it’s supporting local businesses with retention and expansion initiatives.

Two years ago we launched the forest innovation fund to ensure that our forest economy stays ahead of the curve — that instead of looking to other places in the world for leadership in forestry, it was being developed right here in British Columbia. That program, over two years, has invested $1 million into companies deploying new research and technology, in companies based here in central and northern B.C.

Moving on from that, we’ve also seen a need for capacity in our communities and have supported internships — local government internships, economic development internships. This year, for the first time, we forged a partnership with INAC, and we’re co-funding First Nations government internships. We placed three Indigenous recent university graduates into First Nations communities throughout our service area who are all interested in long-term careers in band administration.

As well, moving on from there, we do manage funds on behalf of other organizations, including the province of British Columbia. We have, of course, also managed funds on behalf of the government of Canada. Right now our connecting B.C. program, which we’re administrating on behalf of the province over the last three years, has committed $10 million to broadband last-mile connectivity and helped connect 43,000 homes with high-speed Internet throughout British Columbia that didn’t previously have it.

That’s what we’ve done, but there’s more to come.

The last slide. In terms of regional needs, there are a number of trends that we’re seeing and, no doubt, you’re hearing in your consultations throughout British Columbia.

[5:05 p.m.]

In our part of the world, certainly recovery from the wildfires this past summer is a hot topic. Small business, agriculture and tourism marketing support are some of the trends and desires we’re seeing coming out of the communities that are most impacted in the Cariboo and the Thompson-Nicola areas.

Connectivity. Continued investment in broadband, in cellular, is absolutely essential. Our region cannot diversify its economy into the tech sector if we don’t actually have the Internet to back it up and communicate with our clients. As well, connectivity is absolutely essential for delivering health care options such as telemedicine and distance education programs into remote communities that can only be accessed by boat or plane.

Multisector innovation to support commercialization and deployment of new tech. Up here our tech sector looks less like the development of apps and animation companies and more like the deployment of tech into traditional sectors. But they’re still job creators, and they help our sectors become more resilient and sustainable and support jobs over the long term.

Continued support for beetle-impacted communities is needed, but not just pine beetle. Now our communities are also struggling, to the north and in Mackenzie, with the impacts of the spruce beetleand, here in Prince George and south into the Cariboo, the fir beetle.

There’s not a community in central and northern B.C. that will not identify for you housing needs — most notably, seniors housing. An answer to that is incentive packages to incent developers to come to central and northern B.C. and invest their money here.

One of the challenges we have is that a developer does not realize the margin on a development in the north that they do in the greater Vancouver area. So an incentive package through a partnership between the province, an organization like ours and the local government can actually attract an investor to do a small-scale development in housing that wouldn’t otherwise come to the region, supporting seniors populations and families in the area.

Lastly, tourism is becoming an absolutely essential component of our economy in northern B.C., but investment is needed in touring infrastructure for that rubber-tire traffic that comes from the U.S. on their sojourn up the Alaska Highway into Alaska. Investments are also needed in rest stop improvements, as well as more connectivity and signage to support tourists as they’re travelling through the region and can find their way from place to place.

As well, festival and event marketing and growth will help to diversify our regional economy, and adventure tourism businesses are a growing aspect of our economy, where we’re seeing high-end clients come in to remote lodges to experience the true northern wilderness.

That’s all I have.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thanks, Joel. I let you go a little bit over time because you were just about done. We have about three minutes for questions.

R. Leonard: Thanks very much for your presentation. I come from a region where the trust has operated quite differently. I know they’re coming with an ask for more funds to top up.

The question that pops to my mind is…. It sounds like you’re mostly distributing the return on your investments through grants. My question, I guess, is: are you keeping metrics on the impacts to the economy? Obviously, you know what amount of money you’re giving out, but what is happening in terms of growth in the economy?

J. McKay: Absolutely. We do have a number of metrics, and we’re happy to share them with you, if you’d like to request them. I can tell you right off the top of my head that in over 12 years, the trust has helped create more than 6,000 jobs and has leveraged $1.3 billion in new investment to northern B.C.

On top of that, I got curious last Thursday and crunched some numbers on our community halls program, which mostly provides smaller grants into rural communities. That alone, with 40 projects, generated $1 million in new revenue for rural and remote communities. That’s not just their existing revenue; that’s additional revenue, after upgrades to everything from HVAC systems in community halls to new flooring and roofs so that remote area like Dome Creek can host more festivals and events.

So we do have a wealth of statistics, and we’re happy to share them.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Please do. And just so you know, October 16, 5 p.m., is the deadline for any further written materials. Thank you, Joel.

T. Redies: Thanks for your presentation and for what seems to have been quite a successful program, especially with your last statistics.

I’m just curious. You must get lots of applications, just like we’re getting lots of applications, for funding. What’s your process for identifying which ones you’re going to fund and which ones you don’t? Can you give us a little bit of background on that?

J. McKay: Absolutely. Because we serve such a large area, we focus on fairness and transparency. We’re working really actively with the clients before they even submit an application, to determine whether or not it fits one of our programs.

[5:10 p.m.]

Once it comes into a program, there are very clear eligibility criteria guidelines around how they move through the next step. Once they get through our own staff due diligence — we’re communicating with them along the way — it goes to our regional advisers, which are community leaders, and they provide their support or approval, or not. They generally do. Then it would move to the board for approval, and then we go through there.

T. Redies: Do you have a hurdle rate in terms of the return? I notice you concentrate on the return on investment. It’s been around 6 percent. Does that factor into the decision at all? Or is it that you’ve just been lucky?

J. McKay: We have an annual allocation that we set aside. So we know we have X amount of dollars we make available for projects per year. We’re typically oversubscribed now. We’re getting more projects than we have dollars available, but it’s still manageable, and we’ve been able to meet the demand on an annual basis.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thanks, Joel. Thanks, Brenda. We’re out of time, but we appreciate all the work you’re doing for northern and central British Columbia. Thanks for your presentation.

Next up we have the Northern Technology and Engineering Society of British Columbia. We have Heather Robertson and Shiloh Carlson.

H. Robertson: No, sorry. Shiloh is not here. It’s Dr. Albert Koehler that’s joining me.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. Go right ahead. You have the floor. Thank you very much.

NORTHERN TECHNOLOGY AND ENGINEERING
SOCIETY OF B.C.

H. Robertson: Good evening. I would like to recognize that we are on the traditional territory of the Lheidli T’enneh Nation.

I extend a thank-you to you, the select committee, for giving us this opportunity to make a presentation today. I am Heather Robertson. I’m an applied science technologist, and I’m the president of the Northern Technology and Engineering Society of British Columbia. My day job is supervisor of engineering services at the city of Prince George. I am also a council director on ASTTBC, which is the Applied Science Technologists and Technicians of B.C., and I am the chair of the B.C. Women in Technology. We promote and support women in these career choices.

Over the course of my career, I’ve had a wonderful opportunity to be a part of the engineering design team on a number of diverse and interesting projects, ranging from heliports, water intakes for communities, recreational facilities, roundabouts, municipal developments, design-build of a village for 400 people in Siberia and three local bridges, just to name a few.

Throughout the life of each of these engineering projects, a wide range of skills is required from the team, which is made up of a variety of engineers, geoscientists, technologists and technicians. They investigate, evaluate, design and manage the construction of the majority of our infrastructure in the province to the highest standards in ensuring public safety. They also support the ability to harvest B.C.’s natural resources, which drives our economy.

The transformation of a project from beginning to completion, and the energy that it creates, is always exciting for the people in these fields. The personal satisfaction at the completion of a project is very rewarding, and the handover to the owner is often uncelebrated.

NTES is a collaborative group of professional engineers, geoscientists, technologists and technicians working in private and public companies in the northern half of the province. The purpose of the society is to advocate for education at the local level and to encourage and support the students to become trained to be part of these great design teams.

Recruitment challenges are a common theme amongst all of our members. We have been involved in supporting UNBC to obtain approval from their senate to support a civil engineering degree program. We have been involved with supporting CNC in their partnership with Camosun on acquiring a unique civil engineering technology curriculum, complete with a bridging concept to be linked to the UNBC program.

Some of you may be aware of a labour market study that was conducted in 2015 in partnership with our professional associations and the Asia Pacific Gateway Skills Table. A recent report was published, in March of 2017, titled Digging Deeper: Understanding the Engineer, Geoscientist, Technologist and Technician Labour Market in the Asia Pacific Gateway, which analyzed the data from the original study. Please go to their website and see the reports for your information.

[5:15 p.m.]

Some of the key findings of this study are that the demand for engineers over the past five years has grown 50 percent, and over the past ten years, 100 percent. Over the next ten years, from 2015 to 2024, one in five working engineers will retire. That’s about 800 to 850 per year. One in four technologists and technicians will retire, an average of 900 per year. Just under one in four geoscientists and oceanographers will retire, an average of 55 per year. The labour market over this time for engineers, geoscientists, technologists and technicians will grow by 10,720 workers in those ten years. Doing the math, we have a gap and over 25,000 positions that we will be needing filled in those ten years.

NTES members recognize the need for training in the north for the north. Engineering and technologist technician programs at our local institutes would help bridge this gap, and it’s where we’ve been working for the past 20 years. NTES is asking the government to fund a civil engineering technology diploma program at CNC, which is the College of New Caledonia, and stand-alone civil engineering and environmental engineering undergraduate programming at UNBC.

To emphasize our collaborative working relationship and the importance of this matter, I have the following statements of support from each of the regulatory associations as well as each of the local post-secondary institutes. I’ll read those to you.

From ASTTBC, John Leech, the chief executive officer. His statement is: “There’s a shortage of engineering and applied science technologists generally in B.C. The proposed civil engineering technology program at CNC is needed to address the skills in central and northern B.C.”

From the Engineers and Geoscientists of B.C., I’ve got a statement from Mike Mason, who is the central interior branch chair. “Prince George is recognized as B.C.’s northern capital because it acts as a hub for all northern communities. Education provided by local schools, like UNBC and the College of New Caledonia, benefits northern communities by providing people with the resources they need to succeed. Engineering and technology skills are often the bottleneck in capital projects. It is because of these bottlenecks that the benefits of educating a single person may affect many. The central interior branch of the Engineers and Geoscientists of B.C. is strongly in favour of expanding engineering and technology education in Prince George.”

I have a statement from CNC, Hardy Griesbauer, who is the director of applied research and innovation. Hardy’s statement is: “The College of New Caledonia is committed to training the next generation of engineering technologists and technicians and is urgently needed in many sectors across B.C. We are working closely with industry, NTES and UNBC to ensure that our civil engineering technologist program addresses the needs of our northern economy in B.C. This initiative will create excellent opportunities to retain young people, including Aboriginal, in the region and to attract people from British Columbia, Canada and the world. This vision will create a more sustainable community and a stronger economy in the north.”

I have a statement, as well, from UNBC. It’s in a letter format, attached at the end of your package. I’ll just quickly go through that. It’s from Dr. Erik Jensen. He is the interim dean of the college of science management.

“We’d like to support the NTES in its advocacy for engineering education programs to be created and supported at the institutions in northern B.C. At UNBC, we’ve had advocacy from the local and regional partners to create local engineering programs for years.

“Through the initiative of our faculty, we created the first environmental engineering degree program in B.C. in partnership with UBC, which is highly successful in attracting students and having them succeed in engineering careers locally, regionally and nationally. This program is at capacity.

“Demand from both students and industry is such that we now advocate for stand-alone undergraduate engineering at UNBC for both civil and environmental engineering disciplines. These programs would train students in the north with local and regional internships with the industry partners as a degree program.

[5:20 p.m.]

“The disciplinary focus of these programs would be the issue of local and regional relevance, such as reclamation and remediation of landscapes, and be distinctive from programs at other institutes. We would use the lessons from our northern medical program, in that we aim to retain skilled workers in the northern and regional areas of B.C. by training them here in a high-quality program with relevant industrial partnerships to fill positions that are needed for the development of the regional economy.”

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you, Heather.

Was there anything you wanted to add, Albert?

A. Koehler: I could.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. Maybe in the questions.

T. Redies: I’ve got three questions. Just with respect to the retiring engineers, are those numbers based on people hitting the age of 65? Is that where you got the numbers from?

H. Robertson: It’s in the original report, the labour market study. It’s based on the average retirement age.

T. Redies: Okay. A second question. Would the need for 25,000 positions…? That’s more than 4,000 positions to be filled, over the next six years, just doing simple math.

H. Robertson: Yes. The study was from 2015 to 2024. In those ten years, the calculation would have been the 25,000.

T. Redies: So it’s slightly less than 4,000.

H. Robertson: Providing you filled those…. There’s a demand out there, which we’re a little behind on, if you will.

T. Redies: And what are we graduating today? Do you know?

H. Robertson: That I do not know. That was one of my questions.

T. Redies: It’s just an observation — I don’t know if it’s correct or not — but it would seem that with the size of the gap that we have to fill and how difficult it is to set up university programs, because you have to have the skilled people, we’d need to look at bringing in people, probably, from outside the province or outside the country. One of the issues, as I understand it — it’s not just engineering but other disciplines as well — is just the ease with which some people coming from other jurisdictions can actually get credentialed as engineers. Do you have any comments on that subject? Is that an area that also needs to be looked at, in order to fill these gaps?

H. Robertson: Absolutely, yes. Our associations have programming within their groups. For instance, the technologists and technicians now have a registration program where, if you’ve done your training in another country or community, you can go on and see if it’s accredited. The engineers and geoscientists have a similar one, so that you can see if you are portable. If you are a professional engineer in Ontario, you can port over to B.C. It’s a re-registration, if you will, to practise in this province.

A. Weaver: You make a compelling case, obviously, for the expansion to civil engineering, because you have one already, and all your graduates — well, a large fraction — stay down in Vancouver after they graduate. But why stop there? Why are you not also advocating for computer and software engineering, for example, to try to reinvigorate a hub for technology up here in northern B.C.? This is a place you can afford to live. You offer a lifestyle. Is there no desire for that as well?

H. Robertson: That’s a very good question. Just for clarification, we are engineering design technologists and technicians. In the tech industry, there’s a little bit of a distinction there, if you will. The computer science side of it is absolutely a great opportunity, in addition to what we are promoting. We, if you will, work in a little bit of a different field. I don’t know if I’m explaining that….

A. Weaver: No, I understand. You don’t mention mechanical engineering, for example.

H. Robertson: No, and we would like to expand to that, but we need to get started. We have had a lot of conversations about mechanical engineering and electrical engineering, but there are gaps.

Did you want to add to that?

A. Koehler: Yeah, I can maybe add something to that.

First, thank you, Andrew. We briefly met in Vancouver, if you remember, but there was no time to talk about this engineering. I’ve been on this now for 21 years, to get this going.

You are correct. We were working with a university. The university came a few years ago with a bold proposal. There was more. They were kind of shut down, and they said: “You know, this is not going anywhere.” We, as a society, were working then — and myself, certainly, with the university and also with the college. We said: “Well, let’s just kind of wedge in there and try to get something going.”

[5:25 p.m.]

I was instrumental to get the environmental engineering program going a few years ago. I was the first teacher in this program, and I had only seven students in this program. Now we have several hundred. The demand is there.

You’re correct. It would be wise to really go at it boldly, but would that be successful instead of just wedging ourselves in there and saying this works, and it’s expanded? The demand is just amazing.

A. Weaver: My comment would be that if you wedge in with a vision for the future, you have a compelling argument upfront for why you need to get the wedge in.

A. Koehler: That’s true.

H. Robertson: Excuse me, Dr. Weaver. If I can also add that in both the associations, the engineers and geoscientists as well as the technologies and technicians, our greatest membership is within the civil engineering component. In mechanical and electrical, there are less numbers — or members, if you will — but it certainly goes hand in hand and would be following right next, in the footsteps.

A. Koehler: One can say we’ve got only…. This is a little bit of sideline, but we have no architect anymore in town. We have only two structural engineers left. This province, up north here, is not running full-steam because we don’t have the professionals. When we get them from Ontario or Quebec, they stay here maybe for a winter and then they take off again. It’s the same with the medical program. We’re going to have to educate them here.

Again, I’m on this now for…. I started this ten years ago. Now we have 300 members in the society. Companies who have jobs to do can’t find engineers because we’re not educating them here. It’s a big mistake.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Great. Thanks Albert and Heather. We’re out of time, but thanks for your presentation.

Next up, we have the University of Northern British Columbia — Robert Knight.

UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN B.C.

R. Knight: Good afternoon. First, thank you very much for being here to hear the testimony. There are a lot of important ideas, I know, being expressed by citizens here in this region that are going to impact all of British Columbia.

As the previous guest noted and it’s a tradition of ours at UNBC, we always note that we’re on the traditional lands of the Lheidli-T’enneh. That’s how we start every event at UNBC.

I’m Robert Knight, and I’m the vice-president for finance and business operations at the University of Northern British Columbia. Last year I was privileged to be here with this particular group, and I talked about the economic impact of the University of Northern British Columbia and our sister institution here, the College of New Caledonia.

Today I’d like to talk about something a little bit different. Although, if you do have any more questions about engineering, I’d be happy to talk about that. But I think you’ve probably heard about that more than once today. Again, I’m happy to answer any questions about that. What I wanted to talk about today is the role that UNBC and our sister institutions here in the northern region play and the unique challenges that we face.

I submitted some handouts electronically, but it’s not my intention to walk you through those handouts. They’re more for reference, for you to be able to take away.

One of them was just a small pamphlet about the northern leadership campaign, and that’s simply the fundraising campaign that we have here at the University of Northern British Columbia, as a way of demonstrating how the community supports us in the work that we’re trying to do around teaching and research. We’re not only reliant, primarily, on provincial funds, but we’re very heavily reliant on tuition, and we also do have a strong donor base.

What I really want to talk about today is the northern marketing strategy. You should have gotten a brochure — a very colourful brochure that looks like this — that talks about the unique opportunities as well as some of the unique challenges of education here in the north. When I say the sister institutions, I mean the College of New Caledonia, here in Prince George, as well as Northwest Community College and Northern Lights.

We were very fortunate to actually have the new Minister of Advanced Education, Melanie Mark, come to our campus a few weeks ago to introduce this northern marketing campaign. The idea was that by working together with all the institutions, we could attract more students here, to the north.

[5:30 p.m.]

As you’re probably well aware, if you study the budget, we have a lot of financial challenges not only at UNBC but at the other institutions here in the north. That’s primarily because there’s been a pretty steep decline in the number of school-aged kids. I didn’t give you handouts about that, but you can probably find that in StatsCan. Of course, the government of British Columbia does a terrific job of keeping statistics on the population. But it’s been declining for years, and it will only start to go back up again in the near future.

We’ve been struggling — I say “we” collectively; all the institutions here in the north — to attract enough students. Frankly, to be able to pay the bills, we need the students. But also, we’re then faced with the challenge that we have more non-traditional students that we’re educating. Indeed, that’s part of the original vision for UNBC; it was to serve the north. Some people say it’s a region the size of France. I never actually checked that out myself. But it’s a very, very large region, and campuses are very dispersed.

It’s not atypical that we would have programs — they might be in nursing or education or social work — where there would only be five to ten students in a class at one of these regional campuses. They’re not able, for a variety of reasons, to travel to the main campus. They might be single mothers. They might be mature students who are trying to retrain for the workforce. We have a lot of Aboriginal students that we have to serve who may not have had the kind of preparation that a typical high school graduate has to come to university.

The point I want to make is that in order to provide access to quality educational services…. This is part of the mandate that Minister Mark has from the new government: to make sure that there’s access to quality educational services throughout the province. We’re particularly challenged in the north and in the rural communities to be able to provide that in an economical fashion. As you can imagine, to teach a class of five or ten students in a very distant location, the economics of that is very different from when you have a large, captive market of traditional college-aged, university-aged students in the Lower Mainland.

That’s part of our mission. We take that quite seriously, to do that. The point I want to make there is, given the size of the area, given the economics of providing instruction to small numbers of students in distant locations and the number of non-traditional students that we have — a lot of single mothers, and so on — there are a lot of barriers to access. In order to overcome them, we have to provide this level of services. That’s very costly, but that’s part of our mission.

We do everything we can at the university to try to hold down costs on the main campus, but there’s a certain level of fixed costs for operating a brick-and-mortar campus in a city this size. Whether you have 2,000 students or 4,000 students, most of those costs do not go away. We can’t reduce the number of plumbers and electricians and so on because we have fewer students from one year to the next.

Hopefully, that will turn around soon. I know that when I go around Prince George, I see a lot of young families, and I think: “That’s our future.” Those students are likely to come here. We do a very good job of attracting students who are from Prince George and from the region. It’s much more difficult to attract students from further away because it might be just as easy for them to go to the mainland.

You might ask: “Well, could we provide distance education?” In certain cases, we can and we do, and that works very well. But for other types of programs, it’s really not sufficient. It doesn’t really meet that definition of access to quality educational services. There’s no reason that people in remote communities or that have challenges — like they have to raise a family as well as go to school, or they haven’t been prepared sufficiently — should only be able to get distance education. In fact, they may not have the infrastructure in their community to be able to connect in to high-quality instruction.

That was the key point I wanted to make. The other point I wanted to make is about the support services that we have to offer as a university. Of course, you all know about teaching. You all know about research. We have to provide all these support services to our students. Mental health services is a really burgeoning area. Protecting students from sexual violence is a burgeoning area. Providing special services to Aboriginal students who come from either poor families or families where there’s no tradition of education or who simply have not been well prepared — these are services that we have to offer.

Again, these are very costly. They’re obviously strongly connected to what happens in the classroom, but these are services that are outside the classroom. There’s a certain level of service we’re expected to provide. For example, when the province calls on universities to deliver mental health services or deliver services for students who’ve been affected by sexual violence, other universities create a new office and hire a bunch of people to work there.

[5:35 p.m.]

We don’t have the money to do that up here. We’re really stretched very, very thin. Until this turnaround happens in the number of 12th-grade graduates and we start attracting more than we have been able to in the last few years, it’s going to be very difficult for us to do that.

The last point I wanted to make is, again, about the unique role that UNBC and CNC played this summer during the horrific B.C. wildfires. Many of you may know that thousands of people had to be evacuated. UNBC and CNC were major hubs for evacuees.

We supported evacuees in our gymnasium. We had cots there for 600 people. We didn’t use all of them, but we had to prepare for all of that. We had over 60 nursing home and high need patients from Northern Health and Interior Health that were in our dormitories from this period between July 7 and August 17. We had firefighters who came from all over the country to help fight the fires. They bivouacked. We put them in the library and in classrooms, but we made available to them the shower facilities in the gymnasium and, of course, the cafeteria.

The taxpayers are paying for all of this. It doesn’t really matter which bucket of money it comes out of. The important point here is that we had to provide that sort of level of community service and help the city of Prince George, help the Ministry of Forests, help Northern Health to be able to provide all those services. I can’t imagine, if we had furloughed half of our campus staff because there are no students there in the summer, that we would have been prepared to deal with an emergency like that.

I guess, to summarize, again, I wanted to point out the kind of unique role that the northern institutions play, not just UNBC but the sister community colleges as well, and to note the economics of this. It is much more expensive for us to operate these kinds of quality services in the north.

With that, I would thank you again for allowing me to be here and speak and open it up for any questions.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much, Mr. Knight. I just want to thank you for your support during the wildfires. Obviously, everyone pulled together in the community, and the university pulled together with everyone else.

R. Knight: It was really impressive — the community spirit that they demonstrated. Very good to be part of a community like that.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Yeah, fantastic. I have a quick question before I get to my colleagues. In this interim period before the new, younger students come up, are there any incentive programs that you can think of that the province might be able to provide to attract students from outside the area to come to the north to study?

R. Knight: Well, that’s a really good question. I think, again, this whole idea behind the northern marketing strategy could be applied here. How can British Columbia encourage more students from other Canadian provinces or internationally to attend here? Certainly, the BCCIE, the international education folks, have done an enormous amount to help make this province very attractive to international students. Somehow we have to overcome the mythology that it’s always cold here and that Vancouver is the only desirable location. Once these international students get here, typically they love it here.

So any kind of work that the province could continue to do…. We get a lot of support from BCCIE and others, from Universities Canada, to basically market the region. That’s, again, exactly what we tried to do in this northern leadership campaign. All that sort of thing is very welcome. We think it’s everybody’s job to try to help promote the idea that education in northern B.C. is a very attractive option.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Just one little follow-up before I turn it over. We’ve heard a lot…. It’s been asked to a number of institutions as well. There’s a real push for funding for mental health services on campus for all of the universities and colleges. What a lot of the students are asking for is dedicated funding.

In other words, the concern they have is that funding is coming to the universities, and then, as you said, difficult decisions are being made and “unfortunately, we don’t have the money to fund the mental health thing.” They’re asking for the province to actually dedicate funding. I’m just wondering what your feeling on that is.

R. Knight: I think that would be the preferred strategy, but if that’s not the way we went, then we’d have to figure out a way to carve out some money from some other things. The point I was trying to make earlier, and perhaps I didn’t articulate it very well, is we’re being very lean in everything that we can be in all the administrative areas. People like to say: “Make your cuts away from the classroom.” In fact, so many of these services affect the students who are then going to go into the classroom.

[5:40 p.m.]

You do have to find some money to be able to do that and, at the same time, deal with the issues around sexual violence, deal with the special needs of Aboriginal…. It’s just an awful lot, and now we’re more dependent than ever on the tuition income.

I’d say until this thing turns around, as far as the demographics, we’re trying very hard. We put a lot of money into marketing and communications. Our Facebook presence is off the charts now. I think we’re third in the province, in terms of that kind of thing. I’m, obviously, not an expert on social media, but we’re doing everything we can to attract students from other provinces and from the U.S. and other countries to fill those seats until we can fill them again with British Columbia students.

We’re trying to be careful about every single penny. Having some dedicated funding for mental health, for sexual violence, for Aboriginal students, for international students would be really helpful. I think, sometimes, by having them come in a tranche that’s dedicated just for something, it really makes our people get focused. “Okay, I’ve only got $250,000. We’ve got to make sure we get the very most mental health services”— or whatever — “for that amount of money, and I’m not going to let anybody touch it.” We have people who are very passionate about certain of these areas that support our students.

R. Leonard: I really appreciate your comments. They’ve given us a flavour of this community and the challenges that you’re facing, particularly the notion that if people from further reaches have to travel to come to Prince George, they could choose any location, because they have to travel so far anyway.

I’m looking at some of our statistics. It looks like since 2013, the population, generally, of Prince George has declined, but percentage-wise, it looks like there are still more 15-to 24-year-olds in this community than there are in British Columbia as a whole.

R. Knight: Yeah, I think that’s the case, but we have been looking at statistics that show that the number of grade 12 students had declined. Now, as the younger generation grows up and gets to grade 12, we’ll have an opportunity then to recruit them to come here.

There are more young people, but they’re not college age — or university age, I should say. I apologize. I spent most of my career in the U.S., so college and university means the exact same thing to me, but I know we talk about it differently here in Canada.

R. Leonard: The second question that I had relates to housing. I know that we had an international student in my community that couldn’t find a place let alone afford a place. He was going to transfer to Prince George to New Caledonia because he could get housing in this community. I’m wondering if that is a challenge for students here, as much as it is in other parts of British Columbia.

R. Knight: It certainly isn’t yet. We’re fully subscribed at our dormitories on campus, but we only have 530 spaces. Fortunately, there are other options in Prince George, particularly in people’s homes. There are a lot of homes here that have a second level that they can rent out to students or other folks, and costs are very reasonable, certainly compared to Vancouver. Before I moved back to Canada, I worked at New York University. The prices — housing there was ridiculous. Faculty staff couldn’t afford to live there, and we were well-paid.

In any event, the short answer is: no, it’s not really a problem here. We’d like to be able to launch a marketing campaign to say: “You 6,000 kids that are on the waiting list at UBC, come on up here. We have lots of places to live and lots of room in our classrooms. We’d love to have you.”

B. D’Eith (Chair): Time is up Thank you very much, Robert. We really appreciate the presentation.

R. Knight: My pleasure. Thank you.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Next up we have Physiotherapists for Northern Communities: Nikolina Nikolic, Hilary Crowley, Terry Fedorkiw and Elizabeth MacRitchie.

[5:45 p.m.]

PHYSIOTHERAPISTS FOR
NORTHERN COMMUNITIES

E. MacRitchie: Good evening. Thank you for your invitation to present to the standing committee. We are Hilary Crowley; Terry Fedorkiw; Nikolina Nikolic, a new graduate; and myself, Elizabeth MacRitchie. As physiotherapists for northern B.C. and northern communities, our goal is to improve equitable access to rehabilitation services for residents of our northern, rural and remote communities.

This is the third year we have presented to this committee, and we thank you for the committee’s previous recommendations to fund an increase in the physiotherapy seats for us in the north. We have also presented to the Select Standing Committee on Health and to the previous Minister of Advanced Education. However, nothing has changed as far as our communities are concerned.

Today, we would like to update you on the past year and to ask for your continued support for the following resolution: that the provincial government expand UBC’s master of physical therapy program from 80 seats to 100 seats and designate 20 of those seats as a fully distributed cohort — the northern physical therapy program, situated at UNBC.

H. Crowley: Our situation is still critical. This is outlined in this year’s Conference Board of Canada reports, Stretched Too Thin and The Market Profile of Physiotherapists in Canada.

The reports highlight the shortage of physiotherapists in rural and remote communities and also state that there’s no surplus of physiotherapists to help alleviate the rising demand and exhausted supply in some areas of the country. Nearly all of Canada’s physiotherapists — 90 percent — are employed in an urban area. The reports also noticed that the number of Canadians who have consulted physiotherapists has been steadily increasing across Canada. Current statistics show that physio is ranked second only to nurses in needed skill sets in the health care field in B.C.

B.C. graduates 80 physiotherapists a year, which, provincially, is the lowest training seats per capita across Canada. Annually, UBC has 350 to 400 applicants for physiotherapy for only 80 seats. Over 80 applications, for 20 of those 80 seats, are designated to the northern and rural cohort. Combined with the increase in numbers of physiotherapists retiring, this does not adequately address the 267 vacancies in B.C. last year.

The Ministry of Health projected the need for 169 physiotherapy graduates per year to fill the need for 2018. One in three B.C. physios is over the age of 50, which demonstrates the need for speedy action. In Northern Health, one in two physios is over the age of 50, so an imminent solution must be found. Furthermore, with our northern workforce aging, our expertise and commitment to training the future workforce will no longer be available.

T. Fedorkiw: I will speak to the need for equality in physiotherapy delivery. The shortfall of physiotherapists is greatest in northern B.C., which will significantly impact the ability to fulfill the priorities identified in the Ministry of Health’s cross-sector policy discussion papers.

In rural communities, 7 percent of B.C.’s physiotherapists serve 15 percent of the B.C. population, and in the north 2.8 percent serve 6 percent of the population. That’s approximately one physiotherapist for 4,000 people in the north, whereas in the south it’s one physiotherapist for approximately 1,300.

Geographically, we are particularly challenged to provide services to a sparsely distributed population. Rural areas have the least access to physiotherapy while having most of the highest prevalence of chronic disease.

Isobel Mackenzie, the B.C. seniors advocate, stated in her April 2015 report that B.C. had 11.6 percent of residents in residential care having weekly access to physiotherapy, in comparison to 58 percent in Ontario and 25 percent in Alberta. This indicates a serious lack of physiotherapy service for seniors. She was alarmed to learn that Northern Health provided no physiotherapy to any of the residential care facilities in Prince George.

Furthermore, pediatric centres in the north have long waiting lists for children who critically need early rehabilitation intervention. The shortage of physiotherapists in northern and rural communities makes it impossible to offer rehab services or programs that urban centres enjoy.

[5:50 p.m.]

Northern B.C. is the industrial hub of the province, and as such, with its financial contribution to the provincial budget, it surely deserves equitable educational opportunities as well as equitable access to services.

Another need is our high school graduates. They are required to move to other provinces or overseas to obtain their degree in physiotherapy.

N. Nikolic: On a local level here, the long-awaited and highly needed student-led cardiopulmonary program at the Y has been invaluable to the participants’ quality of life. This program is at risk of collapsing due to our inability to fill the preceptor position.

Similarly, when Terry here retires from the Central Interior Native Health, it will be very difficult to recruit another physiotherapist to this program, yet it is invaluable to the Indigenous people and those living close to the streets. We provide practicums for the students in the northern and rural cohort, but until we get the academic program up here in Prince George, it will continue to be extremely difficult to recruit to these positions. The physiotherapy profession continues to try to provide services to remote First Nations communities, but these are severely compromised by the shortage of available staff.

The cost-effectiveness of physiotherapy is well documented. Physiotherapists in hospitals reduce the length of stay and prevent readmissions to hospitals. Community physiotherapists enable timely discharge from local hospitals and specialized units elsewhere. Last summer, the outpatient physiotherapy department at the University Hospital of Northern B.C. had to close down due to a lack of physiotherapists. This resulted in increased length of stay and readmission rates. Post-surgical patients and other conditions such as stroke were further compromised by limited physiotherapy services in the community.

The increased cost to health care could easily be prevented if we were able to fill the vacancies. In another example, we were unable to support one of our own ER nurses who suffered a stroke and had to go to Vancouver for her rehab — a costly affair.

Physiotherapy has been shown to reduce health care costs in so many areas of practice, such as with multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s and arthritis. Most notably, our ability to reduce acute and chronic pain in turn reduces dependency on medications and ER visits.

H. Crowley: The need for physiotherapists in B.C. is supported by the Ministry of Health policy papers. We have full support from UBC and UNBC for a distributed physiotherapy program of 20 students to be situated at UNBC in partnership with the northern medical program. There is community support evidenced by letters from several municipalities throughout the north acknowledging the need for physiotherapy services in their communities. The northern MLAs are all supporting this initiative.

Doctors in the Northern Medical Society agree there’s a critical need for a physiotherapy program at UNBC. They’re well aware of the shortages, and in many instances have stopped referring, as they realize the services aren’t available. This means that patients are more likely to become dependent on medications and will have more frequent visits to their doctor or emergency department. Physiotherapy is much more effective and less costly than these alternatives.

There have also been several articles in the media from patients and organizations highlighting the need for enhanced physiotherapy services. Employers in our northern industries are feeling the effect of untimely return to work from injuries due to limited rehabilitation services.

T. Fedorkiw: Now for an update on our physiotherapy education success at UNBC.

We already have a strong foundation on which to build a distributed program of 20 seats. There’s strong interest in the northern and rural cohort, and of 85 applicants, three identified themselves as Aboriginal.

We can build on the academic success of a three-week pilot course partnering with the northern medical program. This three-week academic distribution, while modest in itself, provides important proof-of-concept for the potential of a full academic distribution in the future. Early results indicate the northern cohort’s education is equal to, and in some cases surpasses, that of their peers at UBC.

The northern and rural cohort has provided us the ability to attract physiotherapists to rural areas, and 50 percent of our graduates now work in areas which were under-serviced. A training program based in the north that targets rural entrants is a well-proven strategy to assist with recruitment and the supply of physiotherapists in northern and rural regions. We need to have the academic portion of the program incorporated into UNBC so that the students live in this community for the full program rather than just coming up for four five-week practicums.

[5:55 p.m.]

E. MacRitchie: We trust that you now understand not only the need but also the value of physiotherapy for our northern patients and communities. We believe that the cost to train our students in the north, at UNBC, for the north, would more than be offset by the reduced costs to health care delivery.

This would, in turn, enhance the health of our population in the north. Furthermore, students living in our communities would form networks to enhance their professional careers and encourage them to stay in the north where they are most needed.

Again, we ask that the provincial government expand UBC’s master of physical therapy program from 80 seats to 100 seats and designate those 20 seats as a fully distributed cohort — the northern physical therapy program situated at UNBC.

Thank you for listening to our request.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Thank you very much. That’s the first time we’ve had all four participate like that or had four like that. Fantastic.

My wife works in physiotherapy, so you don’t have to tell me the values of physiotherapy. I have a daughter who had just ACL surgery, so I totally understand the post-operative…. It’s so important — and how quickly that she would be able to recover. Not having those services here would obviously have a profound impact on people’s recovery times and all the things you talked about. Anyway, that’s just me.

S. Cadieux: Well, nobody has to tell me about the value of physiotherapy, after spending nine months with a physiotherapist. But my experience pales in comparison to my husband’s, who I am pretty sure spends more time with his physiotherapist than with me.

Interjections.

S. Cadieux: Oh no, injury after injury after injury. The man is a walking injury.

I understand the challenge. I understand the request. If, generally, you anticipate training in the north, stay in the north, kind of thing. Not all are going to do that, especially if they can’t get into a program in Vancouver, so they come north, and then they stay in the city.

Why would we not be looking at — on top of this, or whatever — forgivable loans, or that sort of thing, for people that stay in practice for a certain number of years? Something along those lines. I think the challenge that we see with a lot of things is that there’s…. In B.C., from your own documents, we have more physiotherapists practising per capita than anywhere else in the country, yet they all practise in Vancouver.

I have the largest population in my neck of the woods, along with Bob, south of the Fraser or the east Fraser or whatever you want to call it, yet we have fewer than Vancouver does. From that perspective, there’s always going to be a challenge in attracting people to where the needs are because they are attracted to practise, for other reasons, in city centres and so on.

Do we think that training, alone, at 20 seats per year will be enough to actually start to address the issue?

H. Crowley: I think that’s the most important thing, much more than forgiving loans. I think having the program in the north…. That attracts the students from the north too. Many just find it impossible to go down and find accommodation and manage to do their training down in Vancouver, but once they’re down there, they’re far less likely to come back to where they’re most needed.

E. MacRitchie: Yeah. That’s what we’re finding, but if you look at our report, 80 students for every one of those 20 places in our northern cohort…. They only come up for a few weeks each year over their almost three-year period.

Nikolina, you wanted to say something.

N. Nikolic: I have a comment as well for that. The cost of living in Prince George is way less than in Vancouver, so when you’re looking at loans as well, you’re probably going to accumulate less debt living up here.

The other thing is that this being a professional master’s program, you’re looking at people in their later 20s who are most likely married or may also have children. That’s a huge barrier for a lot of individuals — having to split up from their partners or move down to Vancouver or look for another job for their partner in Vancouver, which is much more difficult, right? That’s a huge barrier for a lot of people as well.

[6:00 p.m.]

S. Cadieux: No, I wasn’t suggesting, by any means, that having the seats up here wasn’t valuable or needed. It was that it might not be enough.

N. Nikolic: I agree with you.

H. Crowley: We’ll take forgiving loans too.

N. Nikolic: The loan forgiveness program currently — and I’m on it — only pays off your B.C. student portion of the loans, which is just a fraction of the loans. It’s over five years, and it limits me to stay with one position in the north. What if I want to move to a more remote community, such as Kitimat? Would my loan forgiveness program then end? But that’s just my comment.

A. Weaver: Excuse my ignorance. Is the program a two-year program — the master’s?

H. Crowley: Yes.

A. Weaver: Okay. The next thing is…. You mentioned that you believe that the costs for training up here would significantly offset health care costs otherwise incurred for training afar. Do you have any hard data on that that you could provide us with?

E. MacRitchie: I don’t think we do.

T. Fedorkiw: No, we don’t. We’re the clinicians. We’re the people in the trenches. We see the people who can’t get enough therapy in the hospital. They’re discharged, and then in a couple of weeks, they go back in again. It’s pretty costly to stay overnight.

A. Weaver: No, I understand. I just wondered if you had some data. It would be very helpful.

E. MacRitchie: Plus, our rehabilitation unit is being filled with patients who need to go into long-term care. They are filling up our rehab centre. We have two four-beds….

T. Fedorkiw: Our answer is that we don’t have the data.

A. Weaver: The other thing is…. You have a medical program up here. Have you got any compelling data as to the retention rates of people who trained up here in the medical program? Because that, too, is very compelling. That could back up your case — that “train here; stay here.”

E. MacRitchie: It’s a well-known fact that if trained in the north, they’ll stay in the north and that people, when they’re trained, stay within a certain circumference of that training centre. There’ve been numerous studies done on the medical program here.

T. Fedorkiw: In the northern medical program, 60 percent of the graduates work in rural communities — that’s pretty high — whereas the graduates from Vancouver, only 9 percent. In the north, 30 percent of them stay in the north, and from Vancouver, only 3 percent.

With our own little program, the northern cohort, it’s only been three years. We’ve only got three years of graduates from that. Rurally, we have between 40 to 50 percent, whereas from Vancouver, it’s only 7 percent. In the north, 13 percent stay in the north, and 1 percent of Vancouver graduates come to the north.

When we started this NRC program, our youngest graduate from UBC was 51. We’ve been working on this for longer than Albert has been working on his program. But we do need both programs.

When we came here — we’re both immigrants; we came here in the ’70s — there was a shortage then. It’s just been accumulating all along. When the university started, of course, then we started working on that.

A. Weaver: I’ve known Hilary for just a little bit too. People might not know that Hilary was our candidate in this riding here — Mike Morris’s riding.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Okay. We are over time, but Ronna-Rae has a very quick question — and a very quick answer, please.

R. Leonard: One of our government’s visions is to have a team-based approach to medical care. I know physiotherapists tend to operate in the private realm, unless they’re attached to an agency, like ICBC.

Anyway, my question is: do you see an advantage in being part of a team-based approach to health?

T. Fedorkiw: Totally, 100 percent.

H. Crowley: The University Hospital of Northern B.C. is well aware that physios are integral to an integrated health team.

T. Fedorkiw: And I work in an interprofessional team.

B. D’Eith (Chair): Fantastic. We are way over time. Thank you so much to all of you, and for everything you do in the community for physiotherapy. Keep fighting the good fight. It’s all good.

This brings an end to the Prince George session. I wanted to thank Hansard Services, all the staff and the wonderful MLAs on our committee. Thank you so much for all the great questions.

The committee adjourned at 6:04 p.m.