Finance and Government Services — Issue No. 77 — Wednesday, September 30, 2015 (HTML)

Present: Wm. Scott Hamilton, MLA (Chair); Carole James, MLA (Deputy Chair); Dan Ashton, MLA; Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA; Eric Foster, MLA; Simon Gibson, MLA; George Heyman, MLA; Mike Morris, MLA; Claire Trevena, MLA

3. The following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions:

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES


CONTENTS
Page
Presentations	1831
C. Charleyboy
D. Hall
M. Miller
P. Adams
L. Taylor
C. McKay
S. Besse
A. Sommer
J. Kurjata
B. Kulmatycki
M. Keller-Macleod
R. Walker
M. Mobley
D. Try
R. McElroy
D. Elliott
M. Warcup
R. Goffinet

S. Hamilton (Chair): Good morning, everyone. My name is Scott Hamilton. I’m the MLA for Delta North and Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

We’re an all-party parliamentary committee of the Legislative Assembly with a mandate to hold provincewide consultations on the next provincial budget. The consultations are based on the budget consultation paper that was recently released by the Minister of Finance. The committee will issue a report by November 15, 2015, with recommendations for next year’s budget.

We’ve had to modify our planned schedule of in-person community meetings this year, as the Legislature has been called back for a fall session that began on September 28. In order to accommodate as many presenters as possible, we are holding public hearings in communities across the province through in-person sessions or via teleconference, video conference or Skype.

British Columbians are also invited to participate by sending in written, audio or video submissions or completing an on-line survey, and you can make a submission or learn more about the consultation in general by visiting our website at www.leg.bc.ca/budgetconsultations. We invite all British Columbians to make a submission and contribute to this important process, and for those of you in attendance, we thank you for taking the time to participate today.

All public input will be carefully considered by the committee as it prepares its final report to the Legislative Assembly. Just as a reminder, the deadline for submissions is Thursday, October 15, 2015.

Today’s meeting will consist of presentations from registered witnesses. Each presenter will have ten minutes to speak followed by five minutes for questions from the committee. Today’s meeting is being recorded and transcribed by Hansard Services, and a complete transcript of the proceedings will be posted to the committee’s website. All of the meetings are also broadcast via audio via our website.

Now I’ll ask the members of the committee if they would please introduce themselves, and I’ll start with Claire.

S. Chandra Herbert: Good morning. Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA, Vancouver–West End, Coal Harbour.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Morning — Carole James, MLA for Victoria–Beacon Hill.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Also assisting the committee today, to my left, is Susan Sourial. We have Lisa Hill and Stephanie Raymond from the Parliamentary Committees Office. And we have Ian Battle, Alexa Hursey and Rob Froese from Hansard Services. They’re here to record the proceedings, as I mentioned earlier.

If we are ready to go with our first presenter, I would ask Cindy Charleyboy of the B.C. Schizophrenia Society in Williams Lake….

Good morning. Just to let you know, we have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a two-minute high sign when we’re getting close so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions, if that works.

C. Charleyboy: Good morning, everyone. My name is Cindy Charleyboy, and I’d like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today. I’ve had a long history of caring for people with mental illness in my personal life and as the past coordinator for the B.C. Schizophrenia Society and, also, presently as the current BCSS program and service delivery manager for the province.

I would like to share with you a little of what my family has been through and what I see so many other families struggling with in the hope that you’ll support our call for additional funding for services.

I am a sister of a man living with schizophrenia and a mother whose son had an anxiety disorder. I’m well aware of the systems available for our loved ones who have mental illness in our area. My older brother, Michael, moved to Vancouver many years ago, and our family supports him any way we can. Michael has housing, a regular psychiatrist and a community outreach worker. It has taken about 20 years for my brother to become stable.

My son, Warner, on the other hand, was forced into
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many systems that could not accommodate his mental illness needs. After years of having inadequate services in Williams Lake, it was decided by the team that moving him to Abbotsford in 2009 at the age of 27 would be the best thing to offer him.

Unfortunately, in this new environment and without his family being near to support him, he was put in an extremely vulnerable position, and he died in the care of a professional in the fall of 2009. My son actually lay dead for four days before his body was found. Our story will forever impact the people that worked with my son and, of course, our family.

The years of struggling and advocacy took a toll on our family when my son was pronounced dead on Thanksgiving weekend of 2009. Many families face unexpected death with their loved ones, and our family is thankfully now in a position to help prevent crisis in other families and help others to cope with the grief that comes with these tragedies.

Our family would not have survived without the help of the B.C. Schizophrenia Society. Our local coordinator at the time worked over and above to help our family through this difficult time. I know that a lot of other families in this region face similar struggles but don’t have the benefit of the resources and service that the BCSS provides.

There are about 20,000 people living in Williams Lake and the surrounding area, and we’re all served by one single coordinator working eight hours a week. Within the Interior Health region, the 80,000 people living in and around Kamloops are served by a coordinator who works 15 hours a week.

Two staff people working three days per week for approximately 100,000 people is simply not enough. The result is that families are falling through the cracks and feeling abandoned. We could easily fill four working days supporting families in the Cariboo region, and I know it would make a huge difference for our local communities.

We are currently getting requests for our Kids in Control program which we cannot meet. The program supports children who have a parent with mental illness and teaches them coping skills.

So many of these children are put in the position of being caregivers for their parents, and they end up carrying a huge burden as a result. Although their well-being is often compromised, they do not technically qualify for help from either the Ministry of Health or the Ministry of Children and Family Development. We want to support these children but cannot do so because we don’t have the resources.

We’re also getting requests for respite services from family members who really need a break from their daily caregiving duties. Being responsible for someone with a mental illness and taking care of their day-to-day needs requires a huge commitment of time and energy. This commitment can strain family relationships, prevent caregivers from maintaining their jobs and take a physical, emotional and psychological toll on the caregiver.

I know that funding for respite services would improve the overall well-being of our families and communities. I wish I would have had respite services to help us with my son.

One of our greatest hopes and concerns right now is the future of First Nations communities in B.C. The Interior Health’s Cariboo, Chilcotin and Thompson region includes many First Nations communities. There are 17 Shuswap bands, six Tsilhqot’in bands and one Carrier band in our region alone.

I’m very aware of the struggles these communities face, and I have committed much of my time to co-developing our Strengthening Families Together, First Nations edition, program with the help of other BCSS staff and First Nations family members. Strengthening Families Together is a ten-week course for families members which provides all the essential information and resources to equip families to care for their loved ones. It covers symptoms, diagnoses, treatment, grief and loss, communication, coping skills and advocacy.

Over the last year, we’ve been working to update the SFT program and make it even more relevant in First Nations communities. I know that there’s going to be a considerable demand for this program. We are constantly getting requests for the Strengthening Families Together program in this region, and we anticipate more requests coming in from First Nations communities as we offer our First Nations edition to families.

Once we release the First Nations edition, we can only expect family members to increase their requests. Our hope is that we will be able to secure the funding to provide the education and support that our First Nations families need so desperately.

This is why we hope you will support B.C. Schizophrenia Society’s request for additional funds. BCSS staff and volunteers are meeting with local MLAs across the province to present a plan to support the continued work of the society in partnership with the B.C. Ministry of Health. We have provided the committee a copy of our case for support that seeks $3 million over the next five years. This funding will continue the society’s work of the past 33 years in proactively championing mental health literacy, access to services and support for families and their ill relatives equitably across all of B.C.

On behalf of all families in our region, I do thank you for listening. I’m wondering: do you have any questions or comments for me?

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, a number of hands have gone up, Cindy, so I’m going to go to the committee.

M. Morris: Good presentation, Cindy. My previous life as an RCMP officer dealt significantly with mental illness and addictions right across our province. I share
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your concerns and your compassion, and I do support what you’re asking for.

There are a number of mental health agencies and associations that we’ve heard presentations from. One of the concerns I have, I suppose, is that there’s not enough collaboration, probably, between all the different agencies and groups. I would certainly like to see a little bit more work done in that regard, but I’m supportive of doing more for mental illness and addictions. They seem to go hand in hand.

I’ve had two close relatives who…. One, unfortunately, passed away but lived a life of drug-induced schizophrenia. The other one is suffering much from the same right now. So I’m with you on this. Thanks very much for your presentation.

C. Charleyboy: Could I address that for 30 seconds, just to say that we are working very hard with our partners. I just want to say that. CMHA, Ministry of Children and Family Development. We’re on a HeretoHelp website with all our partners. So we are very aware of the value of the partnership. I just wanted to say that.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation, Cindy — very heartfelt.

I’ve got a question just a bit on the lines of Mike’s, I think. You mentioned in your presentation that there is just a single coordinator in Williams Lake for a population of about 20,000, and then the part-time person in the Kamloops region. I’m wondering: is this person working with the Schizophrenia Society, or is this the only mental health support worker for this population? What sort of numbers are we talking about who need this service? Obviously, a population of 22,000 — it’s not going to be the full population.

C. Charleyboy: Good question. I’ll just try to do this as quickly as possible again.

If we look at the statistics of one in four people in Canada today possibly could get a mental illness, then we can do the math. That’s our reality right now. Our family services are very unique in outreach, offering programs just for families. Sure, CMHA and other programs in the area offer education. However, no one offers education the way we do. We’ve got mental health services here, but they are not unique the way our services are.

C. Trevena: I think it does. So the person that you’re referring to works solely for the Schizophrenia Society and working solely with families who have a member who has schizophrenia, then.

S. Chandra Herbert: Thank you for sharing your story, Ms. Charleyboy. I really appreciated it. It brings it home.

I guess I just wondered, in terms of the Strengthening Families Together program, First Nations edition: is this offered just in the Terrace and Williams Lake area, or are you working to help spread it across the province? I’m glad to hear that there’s a specific program for specific communities because often one-size-fits-all programs don’t work that well.

C. Charleyboy: That’s right. Great question. I wish I had more time to talk about it.

I just came out of the Stó:lō Nation last week. We spent three days with the community in wrapping our pilot up of this program. We’re going right across the province to do this. We’re getting feedback from the First Nations communities, from the family members. We’re training the trainers so they can take it back home into their communities and do this with their own families.

S. Gibson: Thank you for your presentation. I, too, have empathy for so many citizens that are struck by these tragedies, in many ways.

My question is: what about the prevention side? You don’t talk too much about that. What are you proposing to try to get to some of these mental issues before they emerge? There seems to be some commonalities amongst folks that get into this unfortunate situation. Could you comment a little on prevention?

C. Charleyboy: I can only say on the prevention side, we have youth programs — our Kids in Control program. The youth program ReachOut Psychosis goes right across the schools all over the country. This is a teacher resource that provides young people with preventative measures, coping skills, the skills to be able to talk about this to someone if they notice that their friend or their family or their loved one — someone they know — might be acting different. It gives them the skills and a bit of ability to be able to come up and talk about it without having any shame or discrimination around that. That’s one program we do.

We do many, many programs. The Strengthening Families Together is also…. Just because it’s a program that comes after your relative is ill and people come in and talk about their ill relative, it also provides people with preventative tools in that we’re going to prevent more crises from happening in our family, and is that not a good thing for us as a family? Crisis after crisis, not having support, it makes things worse.

Then several of my family members also became extremely depressed and had an anxiety disorder — one of my family members — because of all the other things that were going on. So I believe that everything we’re do-
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ing is about helping to prevent more people from coming into the system.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation, and thank you for identifying a couple of really important pieces.

I think one is that the mental illness of an individual impacts the entire family and impacts the entire community. It’s not simply the individual who’s struggling with mental health. I think that’s really important when we look at services and supports.

The second piece I just wanted to ask a quick question around. We get a lot of concerns raised by individuals who, even if there are supports available, aren’t able to access them because of — I think it was described by Mike — the lack of coordination or being sent from agency to agency to agency when things aren’t working. I wonder if that’s something that you’re seeing as well.

C. Charleyboy: Absolutely, Carole. One of the things that we’re working hard on is our relationship with hospitals and the mental health resources that are available in our area. When I talk about partnerships….

Right now, in our region down south, all of our coordinators do have hospital cards. The Ministry of Health has really tried to partner with us in realizing that we should be able to walk into these places to support our families. In the midst of a crisis, who’s going to do that? We don’t need to have barriers there for us. We need to be able to walk in like anyone else would and be able to help families in those situations.

We’re working on all of those supports and working with the agencies across the province.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Ms. Charleyboy, thank you very much for taking the time to present to the committee. Also, thank you for the work you do on behalf of the people that you serve.

C. Charleyboy: Thank you very much, everyone. I appreciate your time this morning.

On the line we have Dolly Hall from the B.C. Schizophrenia Society in Terrace. Ms. Hall?

Ms. Hall, good morning. Ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a bit of a warning, a heads-up, when you have a couple of minutes left to go. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions. The floor is yours.

I have a personal story from a family member who is also an associate of mine with the B.C. Schizophrenia Society. I’d like to start with that, and then I have a short presentation, which you folks have a copy of as well.

This is Noreen’s family story, which connected her, initially, with the B.C. Schizophrenia Society. I’m just reading her words for you. It says:

“My son was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder when he was 19. He was ill for several years prior to that, and I did not understand what was happening. The illness threw our whole family into a state of chaos. A diagnosis and medication began his road to recovery, and the support of the B.C. Schizophrenia Society, through the monthly support group and the family education classes, started us on our own road.

“I am convinced that had I not had that support, my son would either be dead or living on the streets. I knew nothing about mental illness, and due to that, many of my normal responses actually made things more challenging.

“The family education course, in particular, offered me education, coupled with support and empathy. The other people taking the course with me had walked similar paths. They understood what we were living with in ways that friends could not. The course offered me a safe place to learn the new skills I required to restore my relationship with my son and create the kind of home environment he needed to move forward in his own recovery.

“I was the only member of my family to access B.C. Schizophrenia Society services directly, but the benefits have extended well beyond our immediate family.”

My name, as you know, is Dolly Hall. I’m the northwest regional manager for the B.C. Schizophrenic Society. I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you today about the challenges facing families coping with mental illness in Terrace and other communities in our northwestern region of B.C.

Our Terrace area coordinator is currently funded to work 28 hours per week and, with that time, serves families in Kitimat, Kitamaat Village, Prince Rupert, Port Edward and a variety of other communities within our region. She provides family support and advocacy, resources and a lending library, the Strengthening Families Together program and support group. Altogether, she serves about 60 families each year. She also provides various public education services, such as workshops and lectures, and attends health fairs.

We also have coordinators in Haida Gwaii and Bulkley Valley. They work ten hours and 24 hours per week, respectively. As regional manager, I work 24 hours per week. We all experience challenges in service provision due to part-time hours and resource limitations. In fact, because of the small number of hours, the Haida Gwaii
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regional coordinator is unable to do any public education work, which would help raise awareness of mental illness. Her limited time is devoted to supporting families.

Our region would really benefit from having a coordinator in Prince Rupert. Many of the communities in the coastal region around Prince Rupert are only accessible by water taxi and ferries. The coordinator, who is based in Terrace, does her best to serve them by scheduling meetings in Prince Rupert, which is about a two-hour drive for her.

These meetings often fall through because they require so much organization and expense for the families as well. If families are able to make the trip, they often have to find someone to stay with or rent a hotel room for the night. Usually, space in the mental health and addiction services office can be borrowed for meetings in Prince Rupert, but the office is closed on the weekends, when most meetings happen, which is an added difficulty.

The coordinator in Prince Rupert could provide a more consistent service. That person would be able to devote some time to travel, perhaps meeting multiple families in a single day in each of the outlying communities.

Even having access to videoconferencing equipment and more adequate office space would make a big difference for us. Our budget is maxed out with rental fees, and we have often had to fit big groups of family members into very small spaces. Transporting supplies between multiple offices and meeting spaces also eats up our time and money.

I would also like to talk about some specific programs that would really benefit our families and communities. For example, a family from Bella Bella recently asked to take our Strengthening Families Together course, but we couldn’t provide it because we don’t have the resources to deliver the course in their area. We did our best to provide some resources and support via Skype, but this really wasn’t adequate for their needs. At least three other families over the last year have wanted to take the course but weren’t able to.

We’re only able to provide two Strengthening Families Together courses per year, and we currently have wait-lists in both Prince Rupert and Kitimat. It is so important that families have the opportunity to take this educational course in a timely manner and connect with other families for mutual support. Additional funding would enable us to hire and train course facilitators in isolated communities so families could take advantage of this essential resource.

We recently had an offer from another agency in Terrace to collaborate on the delivery of our Kids in Control program. This program supports children who have a parent or a sibling with a mental illness so they learn good coping skills. So many children and youth are put in the position of being caregivers to their ill parents. I’m sure you can imagine what this does to their development and well-being. We want to do everything possible to support these children, but even with an offer of collaboration, we don’t have the hours needed to deliver the program.

In addition to the northwest communities where we are currently offering the puppet show, we would also like to provide our puppet show to all the communities in the Nass Valley. This show educates grades 4 and 5 students about severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia. The puppeteers are people who have a mental illness themselves, so the show gives children the opportunity to meet someone who has a mental illness.

They see that mental illness is nothing to be afraid of. It is important for children and youth to be aware of mental illness and to understand that help is available and that treatment works. We’ve seen that this kind of education encourages youth to disclose any problems they are having and seek early help.

Another major concern for families in our area is lack of respite services. Caring for someone with a mental illness is a very demanding job, and so many of the families we work with dedicate an astounding amount of time and energy to caring for their loved one, even compromising their own lives and well-being in the process. They would benefit from having some time to themselves while someone else takes responsibility for their family. We do have one bed dedicated to respite in the region, but it’s often not available and not appropriate for many of our family members.

As you can see, we have some pretty significant service gaps in Terrace and the surrounding area. We do the best we can with funds we have available, but I know that we could have a much greater impact with even a modest increase in our funding.

That’s why we hope you will support B.C. Schizophrenia Society’s request for additional funds. BCSS staff and volunteers are meeting with local MLAs across the province to present a plan to support the continued work of the society in partnership with the B.C. Ministry of Health.

I’ve provided the committee a copy of our case for support, seeking funding of $3 million over five years. This funding will continue the society’s work of the past 33 years in proactively championing mental health literacy, access to services and supports for families and their ill relatives equitably across all of B.C.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. I appreciate that. It’s well timed as well.

I can hear the compassion in your voice, and it’s some-
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thing that I support. Thirty-two years in the RCMP in British Columbia and Alberta, much of the time spent in small communities, and schizophrenia was one of the major mental illnesses that we dealt with as police officers in the community. I do understand what you’re talking about, and I do understand where you want to go with that. Hopefully, we’ll see what happens in our deliberations and our recommendations to the minister.

It seems as if the incidence of mental illness is on the rise. At least, that’s the way it’s discussed in the media. How would you account for that?

D. Hall: Well, I can only guess, because I don’t have research and data to back up what I’m going to say. What I believe is that it’s not really on the rise but rather that it’s being recognized and diagnosed. I think perhaps the Schizophrenia Society can take some of the congratulations, I guess, for that happening. We’re out there educating the public so that they are more aware of mental illnesses.

I guess I would also support the notion that since de-institutionalization has happened, folks with mental illness are back in our communities. People are having to face it, as opposed to previous decades when people were sent to an institution and the community did not have to deal with it.

One of the questions I have is about the geographical challenges. It does seem to make a lot of sense to have somebody in Prince Rupert, but still you’re going to have to have people travelling to that coordinator and finding a place to stay.

One of my questions is: are the people who come to see your coordinators covered by the TAP? Will they get their travel covered? Obviously, there’s the issue of accommodation when they get there, but can they get their travel covered?

My second question is…. I represent the north Island, so up to Port Hardy, up to Kingcome. Is there any work going south — like for Bella Bella, getting down to Port Hardy if you can’t get up to Rupert? Is there any coordination between your region and the work that’s being done with mental health up in Mount Waddington and Port Hardy?

D. Hall: First, we do not have budget money to reimburse family members for travel. I’m unsure…. In Bella Bella, I guess now the First Nations Health Authority is coming into power, so that situation might change. But folks in Bella Bella — for instance, the family member who has the ill son…. For their medical services, they would travel down south to receive those. It’s possible that she could access BCSS services down south as well. But they call us because we’re local. This is where they’re referred to. Because they’re in our region, we end up getting those referrals from those family members.

C. Trevena: My question was, actually: are the people who come to see your counsellors able to use the travel assistance program through the Ministry of Health? When you’re going to see a doctor somewhere or a counsellor somewhere, you do get assistance with travel paid. So if you’re going from Haida Gwaii and you need health care and need to go to Rupert, you’re going to get your ferry paid. I’m wondering if your clients actually can access the travel assistance program or whether they’ve got to come up with the payment to get to see your person, wherever they may be?

D. Hall: So far as I’m aware, they cannot access travel assistance to access our services.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you. That concludes our time. Ms. Hall, thank you very much for taking the time to present to the committee. Also, on behalf of the committee, thank you for the work that you do on behalf of the folks in your community. I appreciate it.

S. Hamilton (Chair): We will take a brief recess right now while we line up our next telephone call.

M. Miller: I’m calling from the farming community of Rolla, British Columbia, established in 1912. It’s just north of Dawson Creek — directly north of Dawson Creek by about eight miles.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Okay, terrific. Well, Ms. Miller, you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you with a couple of minutes left, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions. The floor is yours.

Good morning, and thank you for this time for me to give this presentation. I just want to say that I’m not here asking for money, but I do see an opportunity for perhaps millions of dollars that could remain in our lo-
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cal community and therefore also contribute to the B.C. upcoming budget.

As you are aware, the oil and gas activity in the northeast part of the province has fuelled the B.C. economy for many years. However, I have reason to believe that there has been lost revenue to the landowners and to the B.C. government during that time.

Now, I have a question for you that perhaps you can answer for me when I finish this presentation. The question is: in comparison to Alberta, why does the provincial government approve of a loss to the B.C. farmers equal to $500 per acre for their land and one-quarter of the value of their land for oil and gas–related activities, when that money often leaves the province and, I believe in some cases, even leaves Canada?

Section 154 of the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act lists various factors that the surface rights board may consider in determining amounts to be paid to the landowner. However, as recorded in board order 16-33-3, there are no factors or criteria established by regulation.

In contrast, however, Alberta has legislated factors at section 19(2) and section 25(2) of the Alberta Surface Rights Act. That’s what I want to bring to your attention this morning.

Also recorded in board order 1633-3, in B.C., compensation for the loss of rights “typically includes consideration of the compulsory aspect of the taking, the value of land and the owner’s residual or reversionary interest in the land.” Now, the value of the land isn’t an issue. With an appraisal, then that’s the accepted price of the land. However, compensation for the owners residual or reversionary interest in the land, or the compulsory aspect of the land is hard to determine. How do we come up with a figure for compensation when there are no factors or criteria established by regulation in B.C.?

Let’s, first of all, consider the residual reversionary value of the land. Recorded in board order 1598-2, the surface rights board considered the residual reversionary value to the land to be 75 percent of the appraised value. Now, that was taken from a 1983 Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench court case, Dome Petroleum v. Grekul.

That 2008 board order, or 1598-2, has been used in other board decisions and I believe has set a negative negotiating precedent for British Columbia landowners. Since the Dome-Grekul case in 1983, the Alberta Surface Rights Act section 25(2) has been amended very quickly.

It was amended on July 4, 1983, and now reads: “Where the right of entry order to which the compensation relates is made…after July 4, 1983, the Board may, in determining the compensation payable, ignore the residual and reversionary value to the owner or occupant of the land granted….” That has not happened in B.C. Also, there are no legislated factors or criteria established.

Now let’s have a look at the compulsory aspect of entry, recorded in board order 1633-3. There is a compulsory aspect to an entry to private land for oil and gas activity in that the landowner does not have the ability to refuse entry if a company needs access. We have lost our rights to say: “No. Please don’t enter our land.”

How do we put a price on our loss? Although there seems to be no factors or criteria established by regulation in British Columbia, section 154(1)(a) of the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act reads: “In determining an amount to be paid periodically or otherwise on an application under this Part, the board may consider, without limitation, the…compulsory aspect of the right of entry.”

The B.C. surface rights board has determined that the upper limit of compensation for the taking itself is the value of the land. If the landowner receives full value, then no payment is required for the compulsory aspect of taking. That is a 2003 B.C. Supreme Court case, Western Industrial Clay versus the Mediation Board. So how much should we receive?

In contrast, at section 19(2) of the Alberta Surface Rights Act: “The entry fee…is an amount equal to the lesser of (a) $5000, or (b) $500 per acre granted to the operator, or a proportionate amount, not to be less than $250, where the land granted to the operator is less than one acre….” Not so in B.C. We receive no payment, none, for the compulsory aspect of the entry.

When comparing section 19(2) of the Alberta surface rights board to the B.C. compensation payable for the entry fee, I have reason to believe that section 154(1)(a) of the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act significantly favours the operators and has a negative effect on British Columbia’s economic goals.

It is both disturbing and appalling to me that there are no factors or criteria established by regulation regarding the principles of compensation in British Columbia on private land for oil- and gas-related activities. How do we come up with some sort of a price for the taking of our land?

I’m therefore requesting that section 154 of the B.C. Petroleum and Natural Gas Act be amended to include similar wording to that of section 25(2) of the Alberta Surface Rights Act, allowing the surface rights board to ignore the residual and reversionary value to an owner or occupant of the land granted to an operator.

Further, I request section 154(1)(a) of the B.C. Petroleum and Natural Gas Act be amended to reflect the same wording as section 19(2) of the Alberta Surface Rights Act, setting a legislated fee for the compulsory aspect to Alberta’s entry fee.

Now, just to put all this in perspective for you, on our land, just in the last year, from September 8, 2014, until right now, we have oil and gas production and exploration on 37.32 acres of our land.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Ms. Miller, just to let you know, there are two minutes left.
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The appraised value of our land is $1,850 per acre and $2,150 per acre. So let’s just use $2,000 for simple calculation. In comparison to Alberta, taking into consideration the compulsory aspect of entry and a 75 percent value for the owner’s residual reversionary entrance on the land, I calculate the possible loss to us, compared to what we would have received on our Alberta land, to be $37,320.

Considering all the acres of land on which pipelines, flow lines and well sites have been constructed over the years in the northeast region of British Columbia, I have reason to believe that the landowners and the provincial government have lost millions of dollars that could have been a huge contribution to a strong and growing economy and to the B.C. provincial budget.

Surely, it is time to make amendments to the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act so there can be legislated factors that would put a stop to this money from leaving the province and in come cases leaving Canada. I therefore request that the PNG Act be amended to reflect the Alberta Surface Rights Act at section 19(2) and section 25(2).

Now, let’s go back to my question. Can you help me with an answer? Thank you for listening.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. I’ve got an entire committee here wondering if you studied contract law. A very, very thorough presentation. I do have questions, Ms. Miller, so I’m going to go to the committee.

M. Morris: Thanks, Ms. Miller. A very detailed presentation. Of course, all of these activities are now covered under the Oil and Gas Activities Act in this province.

Have you brought this to the attention of the Oil and Gas Commission, or have you had any legal proceedings with them or the province with respect to this issue? You seem to be quite well versed in it.

M. Miller: Well, we do have land in Alberta and B.C., so we have done negotiating in both provinces. Board order 1633-3 was one of our board orders, which we certainly weren’t very happy with. I did talk to the hon. Minister Mike Bernier about it and asked if he would especially consider the residual reversionary value. I took him the Alberta Surface Rights Act. The response he had was from the ministry staff, that the PNG Act couldn’t be changed.

M. Morris: Have you had any discussions with the Oil and Gas Commission on this?

S. Chandra Herbert: A very interesting and detailed presentation. I am curious. Was there ever any announcement or discussion in Alberta when they changed their rules, their regulations? What was their argument for doing so? Do you know any of that history?

M. Miller: No, I don’t. I just read it in the Alberta Surface Rights Act, and I noticed that it was almost immediately after the Dome-Grekul case in 1983 that they changed it. It certainly was in favour of the landowner.

S. Chandra Herbert: It would be interesting to know the history. Thank you very much for your presentation.

I just have a question of clarification. On page 2, you note that the Alberta Surface Rights Act sets an amount equal to the lesser of (a) $5,000 or (b) $500 per acre. Then when you do your calculations below, you calculate that the total loss for compulsory aspect of entry would be $500 per acre times 37.32. Where does the minimum…? Wouldn’t the lesser be $5,000?

M. Miller: Oh, but this is on several different quarters. It’s several different titles of land and several different individual ownership plans. I’ve thought probably I didn’t make that that clear. Yes.

S. Gibson: Intriguing presentation. A quick question. On the bottom of page 2, where you enumerate the different levels of funds that you’d be eligible to receive under this model that you’re proposing, taking those figures, those acreages, and imposing those on Alberta, what would you get with the same acreages in the province of Alberta? Are you asserting that you would get $37,320 in Alberta?

M. Miller: Yes, I would, because I would get the compulsory aspect of entry, for $500 per acre, and there wouldn’t be a maximum amount. Then, also, Alberta does not take into consideration the residual reversionary rights.

I’m just going to ask an additional question. Do you receive any other compensation for the use of your lands for these purposes? Is there any money that accrues to you?

M. Miller: We receive the value of our land, and I have had our land appraised. A qualified appraiser appraised it. Then we also receive $2,000 for the nuisance and disturbance for the use of the land.

M. Miller: No, $2,000. It’s interesting, if you’d like to read the report, order 1633-3, for which we have asked for reconsideration, but we haven’t had any reply yet.
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M. Miller: You know, one thing I thought I would bring to your attention…. I think in the next provincial election this would be an interesting subject for each of the delegates to have on their platform.

S. Hamilton (Chair): That very well may happen. Okay, thank you, Ms. Miller, for taking the time to present to the committee. You obviously did thorough research before you engaged us. We do appreciate you coming forward and sharing your thoughts. Have a good day.

Good morning, gentlemen. As I mentioned over the phone to the other presenters, ten minutes. I’ll keep an eye on the clock. I’ll try to get your attention with a couple of minutes left so that you can conclude, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions.

P. Adams: Hon. Chair, vice-Chair, hon. members of the committee, my name is Paul Adams. I’m presenting on behalf of Altentech Power, SMG Wood Pellet, Torrefusion Technologies and FMI Bioenergy. I’m accompanied by Larry Taylor, who is a colleague and the president of Altentech Power. The businesses being represented here today are involved in different aspects of the clean energy sector and are at varied levels of development.

These businesses believe that B.C. is an ideal location to develop and grow. It is small businesses such as these that drive innovation and technology forward in B.C. and globally. B.C. provides all the necessary elements for the needs of these dynamic businesses, including world-leading engineering groups, world-class universities, high-quality fabrication, affordable energy prices, skilled labour, an aware and progressive general population and sustainable resources that provide feedstock for product and processing.

Direct employment is generally limited in start-up companies like ours. However, indirect services provided by third parties represent significant benefits to the B.C. economy and in the creation of full-time, long-term jobs as these businesses grow. The B.C. government has been very proactive in the green economy space, and many businesses have located and started here due to the policies and programs initiated.

Some of these initiatives have included carbon-neutral mandates, the B.C. carbon tax, the ICE fund and the B.C. Bioenergy Network. We are here today to support initiatives such as these and to provide the committee with an understanding of the needs of small businesses like ours and why these types of programs matter.

The businesses’ representatives have common ties in some common ownership and management but are all stand-alone entities. They represent new technology development, equipment manufacturing, fuel creation and fuel manufacturing, as well as technical services.

Altentech Power is a B.C.-based clean technology development and manufacturing company that has created an industrial-scale drying technology, which has many advantages to incumbent technologies, and 42 countries are now issued patents on this game-changing equipment. SMG Wood Pellet is a B.C.-based wood pellet manufacturing group that is focused on providing industrial-grade pellets for coal replacement in the Asian market. SMG has selected Mission, B.C., for their first plant, and Mission Wood Pellet is currently under development.

Torrefusion Technologies is a B.C-based torrefaction technology developer that is developing second-generation solid fuels which mirror the beneficial characteristics of coal while remaining carbon-neutral. FMI Bioenergy is a B.C.-based company that provides management and technical consulting services to third parties in the bioenergy sector.

B.C. provides approximately 14,000 jobs in the renewable energy sector. These jobs are predominantly high-paying, skilled-labour positions. These jobs also contribute to strengthening other significant employment sectors that benefit from renewable energy.

Primary industries of lumber and pulp benefit directly from this sector through the addition of value to what was previously waste streams and now feedstocks, and through energy purchase agreements made with utilities. A downturn in lumber and in the pulp market make the renewable energy field a significant tool in protecting an additional 60,000 jobs in the forestry and forest products sector. As technologies advance, additional support and benefits are provided to other sectors, such as agriculture equipment manufacturing and supporting trades.

The B.C. carbon tax. It is rare for a tax to be supported by the public, but in the case of the B.C. carbon tax, the public is supportive. Since being introduced in 2008, both per-capita consumption and per-capita CO₂-equivalent levels have dropped. The revenue-neutral design of this tax has been well received.

Fossil fuels and resource development are cornerstones of the B.C. economy and will remain so for years to come. At the same time, diversification of our energy sources, diversification of industries and diversification of the economy serve British Columbians well now and in the future. The ability of a tax to target negative effects on the environment while reinvesting moneys and reducing tax burdens in other areas makes sense for business and for the general population.

Funding programs. Programs created to support new technology in the clean energy sector have been vital to B.C. entrepreneurs and to the success of the B.C. clean energy sector. The ICE fund was created in 2008 to fund precommercial development in clean technology. This fund has since changed its mandate and does not provide funding to businesses in need of support. This is perhaps due in part to government not being the best vehicle to
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select industry winners and not agile enough to act in a timely matter with minimal bureaucracy attached.

The B.C. Bioenergy Network was created by government through a one-time contribution of $25 million in 2008. The BCBN is at arm’s length from government and makes independent funding decisions on deploying moneys to business within their mandate. The BCBN has the ability to act quickly and effectively through funding businesses in need. Unfortunately, the coffers of the BCBN have been allocated in the main, and the remaining money within the group has been slow to flow to business, as the remaining funds also pay staff to seek refunding opportunities.

Provincial funding for initiatives such as the ICE fund and the BCBN have played a significant role for the companies presenting today, and we hope similar initiatives will continue to assist our province to develop into the future.

A case study. Of the companies represented here today, Altentech Power is the furthest along in terms of commercialization and creating direct and indirect jobs here in B.C. Altentech’s story is a good-news story and demonstrates the need for the initiatives mentioned.

Larry Taylor, joined with me today, is the founding partner of Altentech and recognized the strength of the technology in 2007. He took steps to apply for patents globally. Altentech was at the beginning of an eight-year journey that today has the finish line in sight and is on the cusp of creating significant employment and wealth for British Columbians.

Altentech raised money from the private sector and went from concept to bench scale to demonstration levels within a relatively short three-year period. Altentech hired patent attorneys, high-level engineering firms and B.C.-based fabricators and took the napkin sketch from a dream into a reality.

The view five years ago was that Altentech would reach commercialization within a year and that success was right around the corner — and to reality. Although the concept had great promise, the development of the Altentech system wasn’t as close as thought. Efficiencies demonstrated the technology would solve many problems, but real-life operations demonstrated that there were flaws in design, and production estimates would fall short of industry needs.

Fortunately, Altentech had patient investors and re-investors who time and time again invested on the belief of a better mousetrap. Unfortunately, a four-year journey soon became five, six and seven years until the moneys were depleted, and the patient investors lost their patience. The technology had received the necessary validations from third-party engineers and demonstrated a significant and immediate market globally but was at the point of closure.

A last-minute loan was secured from the BCBN, which allowed Altentech to finalize the manufacturing of the technology, to gain a means to create revenue through the dryer for third parties and to launch a product for sale globally. Each dryer creates 4,000 man-hours of high-level manufacturing employment in B.C.

If it wasn’t for B.C.-based funding programs, it is quite likely Altentech technology would have been lost to overseas interests, would be a success story for another country and would have created no direct benefits to British Columbians. Instead, we proudly stand before you today with, as Larry Taylor states, an eight-year, overnight success story.

In conclusion, start-up businesses that are developing a new technology go through many expensive phases of research and development. This period of time is commonly referred to as the valley of death. B.C.-based funding programs create B.C.-based manufacturing, B.C.-based employment and long-term contribution from successful incubated businesses that have been assisted by their own government.

The B.C. carbon tax has made industries address emission levels and has created demand for products. We believe the public and industry alike support the removal of the $30 cap. It was placed on the tax in 2013. The tax should be allowed to grow and create tax relief in other areas while ensuring we all pay for pollution and climate change.

It is suggested that the refunding mechanisms of entities like BCBN, by providing funding to platforms which support innovation at arm’s length from government, would be money very well spent. Continually improving these types of initiatives is also in all of our best interests to ensure they continue to meet the needs of industry today and they can react for businesses of tomorrow.

B.C. is a leader globally on climate change, and we hope to see this continue to attract more success stories to British Columbia. Other provinces have begun to take the spotlight off B.C. Policies such as zero coal in Ontario, provincial funding commitments in Quebec, an anticipated $50 carbon tax in Alberta, an interprovincial cap on trade, mechanisms between Ontario and Quebec have been attracting new innovators to other provinces. B.C. has the ability to retain leadership in the clean energy sector by ensuring we have appropriate funding and appropriate support programs in place.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you for your presentation, and thank you for your persistence. I think that’s probably the best way to describe it. You’ve outlined really well the ups and downs of creating this kind of industry and the opportunities that are also there for British Columbia.

I just wondered…. You mentioned the strength of the BCBN program. I wanted to just ask you, first, about pro-
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cess. You say that you like the independence and that the grants came out. I just wanted to hear a little bit more from you on that and whether you feel the process worked.

Second, you mentioned additional funding. Would you be requesting or would you be suggesting that government look at a similar kind of $25 million pot to go in, as they did in 2008? Would you be suggesting about the same amount to provide some grants?

P. Adams: We’re very supportive of the BCBN. They assisted us at the last stage of business development. We feel the programs…. It doesn’t need to be an identical program to the BCBN, but it needs to be something that reacts quickly to the needs of industry. By being at arm’s length from government, there’s definitely the ability for them to avoid a lot of bureaucracy and hangups and time delays.

I believe their request was for a $25 million re-contribution or for $5 million over a five-year period. I think that an organization such as that with perhaps a deeper board capacity, where you have stories like ours or companies like ours which have gone though the rigours of development…. Providing insight and providing feedback to those groups would perhaps be an additional benefit.

M. Morris: My hat is off to you…. Anybody that endures the struggles of bringing a company together like yours and in particular with new technology — I appreciate the tenacity that you’ve shown through this.

Just a question more out of curiosity: where do you see this technology benefiting the B.C. bioenergy sector? I’m familiar with pellet plants. We’ve got an abundance of them in the province here right now and some of the other technologies, but this was something new to me.

L. Taylor: Our specific technology is what would be referred to as a gateway technology. So whether you’re going to turn wood residuals into pellets or jet fuel, moisture extraction is a critical component. You can’t get there without going through that.

Of course, like everything, it has to be cost-effective. Is the juice worth the squeeze, as we say. Anyone who’s entering into existing technologies, like liquid fuels, or emerging technologies, like direct coal replacement, will need this sort of effective solution to get there.

P. Adams: If I could just add that we’re currently drying fibre for Howe Sound Pulp and Paper. As you know, they lost about 200 jobs from shutting down half of their plant. By drying the fibre that goes into their power generation program, we can protect those jobs. We’re meeting with Harmac, Catalyst, and those represent thousands of jobs on the B.C. coast that can be supported by our type of technology.

S. Hamilton (Chair): I’ve just been informed that our next group has cancelled, so we’ll have time for a couple of more questions.

G. Heyman: Thank you very much for both your work and your presentation. It’s very clear.

My understanding, if my memory serves me, is there still remains some money on the books in the ICE fund. It’s simply not being spent, and the fund itself is not being replenished. My first question is: do you believe that money should be spent out or perhaps be part of repurpose to a different kind of fund? Do you see the best use of a fund being grants to develop technology?

Other people in the tech sector have spoken about the role of government in providing some amount of venture capital that will leverage private investment by showing government commitment to local companies.

P. Adams: Well, I was a successful candidate to first-round funding from the ICE fund, and it certainly was an asset to the business we were developing. Unfortunately, that business didn’t succeed, but some have through that funding program.

I think the challenge with that fund is, again, over time, it became more and more bureaucratic in its nature and more difficult to access the monies in an expedient fashion.

The ICE fund is still in existence. I believe it’s housed with Energy and Mines, and it’s providing some funding to clean vehicles and to other programs within government but not directly to business.

We’ve gone through many rounds of fundraising from the private sector and getting money into the business. We’ve spent millions of dollars in developing the Altentech project in B.C., and we manufacture here in B.C.

Really, it’s that point when the private sector is no longer willing or able to come to the assistance of start-up companies and traditional financing is not available that you really need that cash injection and you really need a qualified group of individuals to judge whether or not it’s worth continuing to invest that money in.

If you continue to seek money from the private sector, there comes a point when the value of your company no longer has a return to the investors who have already placed their money there.

I think there’s a broad need for a full array of financial services. Some of those are already in place in the private sector. It’s that immediate stopgap funding that’s needed to help businesses like ours succeed.

S. Chandra Herbert: I know in some industries in other provinces, the government has put forward start-up capital, some financing, whether it be through grants or other things. In some cases, my understanding is the money is given with an agreement from the company that
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gets the money that, if they become profitable, if the industry starts to go and they’ve got money, they pay it back over time to replenish the fund so the money can then go out again. If, of course, the company doesn’t become profitable, well, that money is not returned.

Any thoughts on having a funding stream setup like that? Would that be something that you think would be possible?

P. Adams: I mean, BCBN has the flexibility to create a grant or a loan. They’ve moved to the loan side over the last four or five years. All of the funding that they’ve put in place now has been in the form of loans. The money that was provided to us was in the form of a loan. We’ve created a contract where, upon the sale of dryers, we repay the money from a portion of that sale. We certainly think that’s a great deal for us and a good deal for government in getting money back into funds such as the BCBN.

Sometimes it takes a lot longer than the fund duration to refund those groups. There need to be contributions, we believe, from government moving forward.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you so much for taking the time to present to the committee. We have our next presenter on the line here, I think. Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time. I do appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your day.

S. Hamilton (Chair): On the line, I hope, we have Corinne McKay of the Aboriginal Sport, Recreation and Physical Activity Partners Council, northwest region, sport and physical activity committee.

Ms. McKay. Good morning. Just to let you know, you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you with about two minutes remaining so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we can go to the committee for any questions they might have. If that works for you, the floor is yours.

C. McKay: [Nisga’a was spoken.] My Nisga’a name is Pearly Fin, and I come from the House of Chief Hay’maas of the Nisga’a Nation. I hold an elected position of secretary-treasurer of the Nisga’a Nation and have been a volunteer for the northwest regional lead position for Aboriginal Sport, Recreation and Physical Activity Partners Council.

My personal involvement with sports began as a volunteer driver and taking Prince Rupert Friendship House kids on a trip to Kitimat. After this, the close cousin of one of the players, and friend of many, committed suicide. We as the parents decided that we needed to take the kids and keep them busy and support them.

After trying to console an inconsolable team member and cousin of one of the players, I realized there was a need to keep the kids together and support them as a team.

Sports has had a positive impact in my life, and the lessons learned, of teamwork and cooperation, are invaluable. It has prepared me for a leadership role and has prepared many for leadership roles.

Sports has the power to change lives. In our First Nations communities, northwest basketball and soccer have been the mainstay. Some of you might be familiar with the All-Native Basketball Tournament held annually in Prince Rupert. It’s now in its 54th year, and it’s been such an important fixture in our community. It’s not just a competition; it’s a community cultural celebration. It engages the whole city of Prince Rupert.

As a young basketball player, I grew up competing at that event and volunteering at the door. It continues to be a focal point of our community teams, and I’m proud to say that I continue to be involved in my role.

While basketball and soccer remain very popular, I’m proud to say that through the work of the partners council and the regional committee, we’ve created new opportunities for youth and community members to participate in sports and healthy activities.

The creation of our regional structure has provided, for the first time, the opportunity for First Nations, Métis communities, friendship centres and other stakeholder groups to come together and speak to their needs, share issues, build consensus around priorities and develop innovative ways to introduce different kinds of sports and ways to stay physically active to our people.

Since the creation of the partners council in the northwest, we’ve delivered many sport development camps, clinics and courses that range from competitive sport to healthy living activities, like Aboriginal Run Walk, Honour Your Health challenge and FitNation. All of this information can be found on their website.

In the past, our communities were, for the most part, marginalized from participating in provincial sport systems. We didn’t have access to the kinds of programs and the expertise that we are now drawing on as a result of the strong partnerships being formed through the aboriginal sport, recreation and physical activity strategy.

Now we have community-based programs being delivered at no cost to participants, and we’re building capacity by training coaches and healthy-living leaders, who are designing and delivering programs to our communities. This framework has been looked at by other provinces as a framework to consider for offering their provincial programming.

All of that is made possible through the support of the partners council and what it receives from the Ministry of Health; gaming; and Community, Sport and Cultural Development.
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We’re doing some great things with limited resources, but so many barriers remain, especially for our northern and more remote communities. We have very few sport and recreational facilities in our communities, and for those that do, many are in a state of disrepair.

Few communities have the resources to employ sport and recreation or physical activity coordinators to develop and deliver community programs, and the cost of travel continues to be an enormous barrier in our communities. With so few communities with facilities and professional staff, we are forced to travel to larger centres to participate in organized sport or take part in healthy recreational activities.

Sadly, many of our people just don’t have the money to be able to take long trips. Registration fees, membership fees, equipment costs — many just can’t afford them. With the vast majority of our population living at or below the poverty line, sport and physical activity are seen as an unaffordable luxury.

We recognize that there are some good programs out there that are trying to help, like JumpStart and KidSport, but they can’t possibly meet the tremendous needs within the First Nations and aboriginal community. Sadly, we simply just don’t see the kind of transformative change in the health and well-being of our communities that we desire until we are enabled to address these very significant barriers.

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada, in their call for action, makes five recommendations specifically related to sport, because of the power to promote reconciliation and strengthen citizenship.

We know that data on population health shows First Nations and aboriginal people on the negative end of the statistics, and we see sport as a primary tool for change. It’s about health, prevention and social development.

The World Health Organization speaks on the need for health in all policy. We look to the government to ensure that when negotiating with the corporations, like the natural resource sector, that community health and, more specifically, that of the First Nations and aboriginal people are part of those discussions and agreements that emerge.

In the end, we will only meet the core priorities, the long-term objectives we’ve set ourselves in aboriginal sport, recreation and physical activity strategies if we are partnering with the province in a meaningful way.

We are also recognizing the need for broader partnership beyond the public sector in order to advance the important work that we are doing. We need to more fully engage other not-for-profit stakeholders, charitable foundations and enlist the corporate sector to work collaboratively in a commitment to reducing barriers to participation and increase the capacity in the communities to address the underrepresentation of aboriginal people in sport, recreation and physical activity.

In conclusion, we applaud Premier Clark’s decision to appoint a Parliamentary Secretary for Youth Sport, and we are certainly thrilled to hear that Mr. Hogg’s more important, immediate focus will be on aboriginal sport. He has already reached out to the partners council to discuss our needs and priorities, and we’re excited about the opportunity to work with such a strong proponent for sport in B.C. It’s our hope that through the continued support of the government, we will see an increase in sustained investment, which will enable the Partners Council to advance the work of the aboriginal sport, recreation and physical activity strategy.

I wish to thank you, personally, for taking the time to hear the concerns of the Partners Council. In the northwest region, we are challenged to provide resources and meet the needs in all our communities, and we’ve had a coordinator that has been very diligent in ensuring that we are offering programs to the whole region. It’s been a challenge, because our region consists of north to Dease Lake, Smithers, Kitkatla, Port Simpson and the Queen Charlotte Islands. It’s a vast region, and we have limited resources, but we’re doing what we can to invest in our youth. With that, I just want to thank you again.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Ms. McKay. Just to let you know, we did hear from one of your affiliates a couple of weeks ago in Nanaimo. That presentation, too, was very well received.

M. Morris: Good to hear your presentation here, Corinne. Having lived up in the Lisims Nass Valley before, in Laxgalts’ap, I saw the interest in the sport activities throughout the northwest part of the province here. I applaud you for that.

Do you know if the Nisga’a government in their discussions with the various proponents — with LNG and some of the other industries up there and some of the other First Nations communities throughout northwest B.C. — has been discussing participation in this in some of their individual benefit agreements that they’ve been working on with these companies? Or has that not been part of the discussions?

C. McKay: In negotiations with the province, we’re not privy to the details of any other agreements that are negotiated with proponents. But generally, there are benefits that are negotiated for us as Nisga’a Nation. We’ve negotiated benefits, such as jobs and contracting opportunities and any opportunities that we can provide for our people. However, we are still challenged. A lot of the social issues that we faced before we had a treaty are still there, and we are doing what we can in every agreement that we negotiate to derive benefits for our people.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you for your presentation. I wondered what kind of connection and work you’ve started with the First Nations Health Authority. I know, certainly, that wellness is part of their mandate. They really want to make sure that they’re focusing not simply on the acute care but also on the prevention end. Obviously, the mandates fit well, so I wondered if there have been any partnerships — it’s early going yet, I know — between you and the First Nations Health Authority.

C. McKay: Well, I’ve not personally been in meetings with the First Nations Health Authority. It’s quite possible that Rick Brant has been involved. We have had a broader discussion about ensuring that the organizations are linked to collaborate and see the potential for collaboration on many fronts, because there is an upside to engaging youth in recreational activity, keeping them healthy and active. If there’s investment at the front end, we won’t see these social issues on the back end.

I would suggest, if there is an opportunity, to seek the answer that you’re seeking from our leader, Rick Brant.

C. Trevena: Thank you for your presentation. I was wondering. You talk about the problems, obviously, because of the vast size of the area that you’re representing and the low incomes of so many First Nations people, below the poverty level, and the transportation situation.

A couple of questions. What’s the involvement of people on Haida Gwaii now with the cuts in the regularity of the ferries and the increasing cost? Also, the ability for people to travel without a bus service around the north…. I know that some of the communities are looking at sort of trying to set up bus networks, but how do you actually overcome that?

C. McKay: Well, for the programs that have been delivered in the region, we’ve taken the programs out to those communities. We’ve not required that they come to us. Our regional coordinator has been quite diligent in ensuring that we obtain the furthest reach possible with our finite resources.

As an example, we’ve had programs for aboriginal coaching in Skidegate, and we’ve also made sure that the program is offered to other communities. We make sure that we target the regions that do not have the opportunity for those programs. We literally have spreadsheets and timelines on when the programs have been delivered so that we can target a new region for the next offering. If we don’t have the ability to deliver a program in a region, we can target that region for the next offering.

We’ve done quite well with limited resources, and I’m really pleased that we have a coordinator that’s been quite proactive in ensuring that we deliver in different regions. As an example, when we offer a program in the Nass area, it’s not just one community. It’s four communities, and sometimes we have people coming in from Terrace if there’s a program here. It’s like that. We’ll offer a program in the Hazelton area for the communities there.

We like to make sure that everything is promoted and have contact with the key people, those that are the movers and the shakers in the vicinity, and just do what we can to get people involved and provide the opportunity for programs like Run Jump Throw — programs that they wouldn’t ordinarily have access to.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much, Ms. McKay. I do appreciate your coming forward and presenting to the committee. On behalf of the committee, I’d like to thank you for the work that you do. It’s a very valuable service — invaluable, if you will. I know that the people benefit immensely from all your efforts.

S. Hamilton (Chair): I call the committee back to order. On the line, we should have Shelley Besse of Envision Financial, a division of First West Credit Union.

I’m Scott Hamilton and the Chair of the committee. I’ll just let you know that you’ve got ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you when it’s just a couple of minutes left, to let you know it’s time to conclude your thoughts. Then we can go to the committee for questions. If that works for you, the floor is yours.

S. Besse: Certainly. Good morning, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me today.

As you heard, my name is Shelley Besse, and I’m the president of Envision Financial, which is a division of First West Credit Union.

We are very proud to serve communities in the Fraser Valley and in the Kitimat area. We have deep roots in our community and a proud history of meeting the needs of our local residents.

At a time when Canada’s economy is sluggish, we have been able to maintain growth, and I believe that’s because of our local and value-based approach. In the last two years, the Envision Financial division alone has attracted more than 7,400 members. We are also expanding our branch locations to serve our members better.

In 2014, we opened a branch and insurance office in the Garrison Village in Chilliwack, B.C., and just a few days ago we were very proud to host our grand opening at our new state-of-the-art branch at Brick Yard Station in Cloverdale, which is in Surrey, B.C.

While we serve a very broad geographical area, today we are going to focus on a unique northern area. I want to take some time to share with you an economic and community story in Kitimat.

Kitimat is our home. We are an integral part of the community, and its people are at the core of who we are. Each day it’s our privilege to serve the people in the Kitimat area with banking, investment and insurance services. The credit union has become one of the main financial institutions in the community, and our insurance operation is actually the largest in the area.

In 2014, our Kitimat branch experienced 31 percent growth in our loan portfolio, and by the end of August of this year, we have experienced a further 12 percent growth.

The credit union is a large financier of local businesses in the community, many of whom depend on LNG development and growth. One special highlight has been our partnership with Northern Savings Credit Union to provide financing to Baxter Landing in Kitimat. Baxter Landing is a high-quality, 36-home complex built by Kerkhoff Construction that is already completed and fully sold out. This project provided construction jobs and much-needed housing to a growing area.

One reason for Kitimat’s growth is due to the current and projected employers in the area. That is why one of the ideas behind this development is to house workers in new and growing industries, such as LNG.

I am proud to share this success story with you today because it’s about new partnerships, good local jobs and supporting the economy. We are proud to play a key role in making this happen. There are certainly more opportunities on their way in the future.

We know that investing in the economy is also about investing in the communities that we live and operate in. That’s why, in 2013, we contributed $10,000 to Kitimat Hospital Foundation. We also supported the annual Kitimat business association’s concert series and — one of my favourites — the PowerPlay Young Entrepreneurs program, an innovative, six-week long program, providing students in grades 4 to 8 with business banking skills, financial literacy training and encouraging them to give back up to 20 percent of their profit to community.

We continue to be a community leader through our support of the annual holiday Full Cupboard program, collecting more than $10,000 in cash and gifts for children and seniors each year.

For years, we’ve worked hard to make Envision Financial a name that people recognize as a caring and compassionate neighbour here in Kitimat as well as throughout the Fraser Valley and the Lower Mainland. We strive to be an exceptional employer, a strong contributor to local economies and a generous community partner.

In fact, last year the credit union invested more than $1.4 million directly into Envision Financial communities through donations, grants, education awards and gifts-in-kind, not to mentions the thousands — and I do mean thousands — of volunteer-hours employees gave to make Kitimat and other B.C. towns and cities not just good places but great places to live and work.

Today I have shared with you our local approach as well as the economic and social impact we have in our community. With a long history of operations and continual growth, it is clear that we offer something that British Columbians value. With more than 41 percent of all British Columbians belonging to a credit union, it is clear that they value and rely on credit unions. In fact, I’ve heard members of this committee remark that almost all of you are members of a credit union.

It is with this overwhelming support for credit unions that I want to discuss the provincial preferential tax rate with this committee. The preferential tax rate for credit unions is set to be phased out in 2016 and will mean a tax increase of 6.1 percent on all B.C. credit unions when fully phased out. If this happens, it will be one of the largest tax increases that B.C. has seen and will place B.C. credit unions with a larger tax burden than Canada’s big banks.

Credit unions have a high requirement for retained earnings, which are our only source of capital growth. Also, when we profit, we give a portion to members through dividends and to local charities and not-for-profits.

The phase-out of this preferential tax rate is estimated to cost First West $6.8 million from 2016 to 2019 and amount to an extra $3.5 million for every year thereafter.

I know you’ve heard testimony on this issue many times already from credit unions and business groups across the province. I share it with you again today because of the far-reaching impact such an increase would have on local economies. Because credit unions are everywhere in British Columbia, the implications of the tax will be felt everywhere, from the Surreys and Victorias to the Nanaimos and Kelownas of our province. It will reach to the Courtenays and the Shuswap. It will reach to the north, to communities like Kitimat.

The amount of retained earnings that credit unions have are directly related to our ability to lend and give back to the communities where we live and operate. A reduced ability to lend to groups like the developer of Baxter Landing, who are creating local jobs, or a scaled-back ability to support our communities through charitable donations, like the Kitimat Hospital Foundation, is not good for anyone.

It is not just credit unions that believe that the preferential tax rate should remain. Just listen to what Jon Garson of the B.C. Chamber of Commerce had to say in his testimony to this committee on September 21:

“The change to the tax structure for credit unions is another issue of concern for our members. Government has placed a welcome emphasis on encouraging small business growth. However, the change in the tax status of credit unions is a measure that works against this by reducing credit unions’ ability to invest in communities and in small businesses.”
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In fact, during their 2014 policy conference, they recommended that the provincial government extend the small business tax benefit permanently and continue to work with credit unions to meet their needs with regulations and tax regimes that keep them strong and viable. They are making this request because they know that many of their small business members rely on credit unions.

Mr. Chair, I know that this committee is very supportive of credit unions and has recommended in the past that the preferential tax rate be made permanent. I ask that the committee make the recommendation again this year.

I’d like to thank you for your time and attention. I’d be happy to answer any questions that the committee may have.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Ms. Besse, for that presentation. We’ve heard from several credit unions, at least one in every town we’ve been to and every meeting we’ve convened. It’s always good to hear the same message being resonated.

Having worked for a credit union for eight years, I am, of course, a fan and a member of two credit unions. We have, I believe, six credit unions in my communities in the Abbotsford-Mission area.

The question I’m asking folks is: what do you see about consolidations of credit unions? I understand that credit unions do need to become more efficient and become somewhat more centralized. I do sometimes have the concern, however, that with centralization, some of the community emphasis is compromised. I’m wondering if you have any remarks about that.

S. Besse: I appreciate the question, Simon. I think from the perspective of our organization, the model that we’ve created through First West Credit Union in really retaining our local brands and leadership and the focus on our local community really ensures that we maintain that focus on community investment. So for our organization, as we’ve come together over many years in many different mergers, we’ve never lost the focus on community investment.

D. Ashton: Hi, Shelley. Thank you very much for your presentation today. All of us on the committee have heard loud and clear the needs and desires that the credit unions have put forward to maintaining the autonomy that they show in each of the communities they’re in. So thank you.

S. Chandra Herbert: I’ve certainly seen Envision Financial’s work in the Lower Mainland. I’m curious. If I recall correctly, should this change go ahead, would it make it so that credit unions pay, essentially, higher taxes than banks? Am I remembering that correctly?

S. Besse: Yes, that’s correct. We would be at a tax rate higher than the big banks.

I’ll repeat what Spencer has said in the past as well. Don’t look at the lack of questions as us being indifferent. It’s just that we’ve heard from so many credit unions, and we’ve pretty much asked all the questions. You’ve been very thorough in your presentations and providing us a lot of good information.

Thank you for taking the time to present to the committee. We do appreciate it, and thanks for the work you do on behalf of your members. Have a good day.

S. Hamilton (Chair): On the line we should have Angela Sommer, Williams Lake and District Chamber of Commerce.

Good morning, Ms. Sommer. Welcome. I just wanted to let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you with about two minutes to go and try to get your attention so it’s time to conclude your thoughts. Then we can go to the committee for some questions, if they have them.

A. Sommer: Good morning, everybody. Thank you for being there today and listening to this. I will read my presentation to you, and then hopefully there’s enough time for questions after.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to our presentation about some of the issues that are affecting our local businesses and residents in Williams Lake and district. My name, as you already know, is Angela Sommer. I’m the president of the Williams Lake and District Chamber of Commerce.

Although we’re somewhat diversified here, we’re traditionally a resource-based community. We need to make sure that the remaining resource industry stays strong, as we’re looking to diversify for the future. I’m hoping for government support throughout this transition.

Small businesses here make up more than 95 percent of all businesses in the province, with 81 percent of them having four or less employees. As the local chamber of commerce, we support our small businesses and are calling on government to support the ongoing success and sustainability of our small community.
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Williams Lake is one of many such communities that need support from our government to ensure a strong economic future with flourishing businesses. Small businesses make up a large tax base for the government and at the same time are strongly dependent on the government’s support. Any investment in small communities to strengthen their economy will get the province good returns in tax income.

I will now be going through some of the issues that we have encountered here and we are continuously encountering here.

The first topic is forestry. We ask that government work to create a more competitive operating climate for the B.C. forest industry, particularly in light of recent downturns in the global economy. We would like to see a review of the timber pricing system in B.C. to address diminishing fibre supplies over the next five years. Both these issues are impacting us locally and throughout the region.

Transportation. Good transportation is a key component to businesses in the B.C. interior and north. We need to be linked to the network that connects the north and the Lower Mainland and from there, nationally and internationally, via highways, rail and air. We strongly support the government initiative to improve the north-south highway corridor by widening Highway 97 to four lanes between Cache Creek and Prince George.

We’re also pleased that our airport has been upgraded here in Williams Lake. We ask that focus be given to improvements on highways at crucial points such as bottlenecks where larger transport cannot get through.

Another concern is the availability of affordable rail services. As the province looks to realizing their dream of LNG, small communities like ours want to support it with workers. Affordable transportation to and from the worksites will become crucial. The timely flow of materials and workers will ensure strong businesses in the north, and again, result in a good return on their investment for the government.

Thompson Rivers University in Williams Lake. We have a small university campus in Williams Lake that allows students to stay in their own communities longer. We would like to see incentives by government to keep small campuses open. Offering complete and specialized programs and supporting them on a government level would ensure a strong student population on small campuses and open the doors to support businesses for the students and institution.

Health care. Our hospital serves a large area, from Williams Lake to Bella Coola to Horsefly and Likely and south to 100 Mile House. As our hospital infrastructure is aging, we’re asking the government to expedite the planned improvements that are put on hold at this point — to keep it going. Williams Lake is also struggling to recruit and retain doctors. Many residents do not have a family physician, and that puts an excess stress on all businesses here. As local businesses, we are wondering what incentives could be given to doctors to relocate outside of the Lower Mainland.

Aboriginal title and land claims. We applaud the government for taking a leading role in the stabilization of issues around aboriginal title and land claims. At the same time, we’re looking to the government for clarification to both aboriginal and non-aboriginal groups on how to work with the legal implications. Businesses in Williams Lake and the surrounding area are worried because there isn’t yet a definitive guideline around this issue. The sooner we can have laws and guidelines established, the sooner we can get on with what we do best — conducting our business and changing and adapting with the times.

Permits and applications required by industry. Williams Lake and area has had a rough year with the dam breach at Mount Polley. Also, we’re waiting for Taseko-Gibraltar to receive their discharge permit.

We’re once again in the position where an approval is needed by two major mining companies and employers to discharge water in order to continue with production. This puts much strain on the community and their businesses.

Another major employer in Williams Lake, Atlantic Power, is looking for permission to burn railway ties. As a business community, we’re asking the government to expedite those permits and approvals to allow our local employees to retain their jobs.

Arts and culture. Arts and culture enrich any community. We applaud the government in their decision to support arts and culture and hope that this support will last into the future.

All services and industries work together, and arts and culture make a community more livable on all levels of society. In addition to this, it serves as a great social leveller, creating relationships and communication between groups that otherwise would never meet. We are encouraging the government to continue to support arts and culture through programs to help, especially, small communities remain vibrant places to live.

We also applaud the new three-year plan that Destination B.C. announced for visitor centres and the promises of other funding to leverage funds for other projects.

Another concern we have here is the credit union. Credit unions are a vital part of small communities. In 2014, credit unions in B.C. produced approximately $1.19 billion in GDP; served over 1.9 million members in 142 communities, including 42 communities where there are no other financial institutions; and accounted for $1.62 billion in salaries and benefits for the 17,000-plus jobs they create. They are strong, stable financial institutions committed to the prosperity of the communities they serve.

With new legislation starting in 2016, income tax not eligible for additional credit union deduction would be
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28 percent federally and 11 percent provincially. The small business deduction advantages start to erode when taxable capital reaches $10 million and completely disappear when taxable capital reaches $15 million. This creates incentive to not grow retained earnings, which is contrary to public policy objectives that financial institutions hold additional capital to ensure they’re better able to withstand future economic downturns, losses on loan portfolios and losses on investments.

Retained earnings are important, as credit unions can’t easily access capital markets. The increased taxes will reduce the amount that credit unions invest into their communities through loans, community projects and return to members.

All other provincial governments have maintained a small business tax rate for credit unions. The credit union here is no different. We ask, as the chamber, for the permanent extension of the small business tax benefit to credit unions in B.C.

Discovery ferry, route 40. I know it’s a contentious topic, but we want to stay on record saying that we want to see the Discovery ferry, route 40, fully reinstated to pre-2012 operations based on our members that are affected by that route.

Grants. We recommend that the government change the existing governance policy to allow improvement districts equal access to infrastructure grants without ownership of their systems shifting to regional districts, unless a definitive report demonstrates efficiencies will be gained by amalgamation, and create a regionally based mechanism that will determine funding priorities for improvement districts and regional districts that efficiently takes into account the needs of all stakeholders.

Lastly, we support strongly the government keeping a balanced budget and not running a deficit. It will keep the debt burden low for future generations and shows responsible management of taxpayers’ money. It will also ensure a competitive and efficient tax regime for small business. This, in return, supports a strong business community.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much for that presentation, Ms. Sommer. I’m going to go to the committee for questions.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation. I know you cut short your statement on the Discovery route, ferry route 40. I would like if you could expand a little bit on this.

We’ve now seen two summers with the Nimpkish serving this route and, obviously, reductions in people coming through. I know there have been a number of lodges that have had to close down operation, up from Bella Coola. I’m wondering what the impact has been for your community, if you have, literally, any figures for losses for the businesses and whether businesses are closing as a result of having this smaller ferry and much less time available for people to be travelling on the route.

A. Sommer: The two things that I can tell you…. The business members that live on the route have continuously complained that there is much less tourist traffic going through because people don’t want to go there and then drive back. If you want statistics, I’ll have to get you those numbers. I do not have them on hand right now.

The other thing I know is that people are having a hard time planning the route on the Nimpkish because they can’t get on. It’s reduced time, and it’s reduced space. People are trying to book those trips from Europe, and they are not able to get on. Therefore, again, the traffic doesn’t go out there. They bypass it and go somewhere else.

C. Trevena: Yeah. I just wondered whether your members have any figures of direct impact, whether they can relate their loss of business directly to that, or if it’s just broader tourism decline.

A. Sommer: The businesses have declined ever since the ferry has been reduced. There was a notable difference. That’s what our members have reported to us. We seem to be busier on the other routes that go through here.

Another thing I know is also that, for example, if someone wanted to book the ferry now, they couldn’t because the ferry has been booked until October, since August already. Anybody new that wants to come through cannot get on.

S. Hamilton (Chair): If I could follow up, regarding any statistical information, we have until October 15. If you would like to collect that and then add it to any kind of submission, you could get it down to our Clerk’s office. It can form part of the public record.

M. Morris: Thanks for your presentation. Just with respect to the forestry issues, we’re currently working on seeing what we can do to have our forest industry be one of the most competitive around. But we have to be very mindful of the softwood lumber agreement and the fact that we’re open to pressures related to subsidies and whatnot.
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I’m curious about your second issue there, that you’d like see a review of timber pricing systems in B.C. to address diminishing fibre supplies. Do you have any thoughts or anything more that you could add to that statement?

A. Sommer: Again, this is information I would have to get from our representative in forestry. He submitted this particular paragraph to us, so I would have to get additional information for you on that. I’m sure they have some very specific thoughts on it.

S. Gibson: I see your interesting comment about Thompson Rivers University, the satellite campus that is in Williams Lake. I worked for many years for a multi-campus university in the Fraser Valley. Some programs were unique to certain communities. For example, in Chilliwack, we had an agricultural program in our nursing program.

Is it possible for Thompson Rivers to locate a specific program in Williams Lake that would become kind of a centre for that particular program and draw students to Williams Lake to attend a unique program offered by the university?

A. Sommer: I believe it would totally be possible to do that for Thompson Rivers University. We’ve been asking and trying for that for quite a while. It’s one of the things that has come up at many different meetings we’ve had with the university. We’d just like more support to get it done.

S. Gibson: Thank you. I’ll be sure to bring that up when we have future consultations with the university.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Ms. Sommer, for taking the time to present to the committee and for the work you do on behalf of the chamber and your community.

S. Hamilton (Chair): On the line, we have John Kurjata of Northern Lights College. My understanding, John, is you are with someone?

We’ve got about eight minutes for your presentation, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions. If you are ready, the floor is yours.

J. Kurjata: We’re just going to kind of tag-team it here. I’m going to start by giving you a little bit of information about Northern Lights College.

I understand that you have a copy of our submission in front of you. Our region serves about 325 square kilometres, which is occupied by about 71,000 people. Most of them live along the Alaska Highway, which starts in Dawson Creek, at Mile Zero, and ends in Fairbanks, of course.

If you’ve got our submission, you can see the area that our college covers for its area — all the way up to Atlin, Dease Lake, Fort Nelson, Hudson’s Hope and Chetwynd. It’s a large geographical area that we have different campuses in — different challenges with that.

I’m going to turn it over to Bryn, and he’s going to go through some of the other areas in our presentation.

B. Kulmatycki: Just to kind of focus the discussion here, we’re going to discuss three specific areas: multi-year funding allotment, aboriginal services plan and new capital funding for our infrastructure.

Prior to that, I just want to say that we want to thank the ministries and the government for providing the soft funding envelopes that have been made available to the college. With these soft funding envelopes that are made available from time to time, we’ve been able to offer a number of specialized cohorts of students, especially to relieve very high-demand jobs in our area. Because of the demand, we were able to respond to our community.

The college is also participating actively in the debt reduction program. We are active in participating in the shared services with other post-secondary institutions. In addition to the shared services with post-secondary institutions, we also collaborate with our local school districts. We have a number of initiatives with them. We collaborate with Northern Health. We have educational initiatives with Northern Health. In addition, we have a number of relationships and arrangements for training for industry and commerce throughout the whole northeast part of the province, in all of the communities.

We serve approximately 8,000 to 9,000 learners every year, and the focus of our entire operations is mostly on preparation of a skilled workforce and on providing leadership in terms of accessing education and upgrading.

In terms of the specifics, the first one we want to talk about is multi-year funding allotments. With the tight budgeting, it becomes increasingly challenging for operations such as ours to project forward. We do understand and appreciate that government officials also have the
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same challenges and that they have to project forward as well.

Nonetheless, it would be very helpful if we would be able to move towards a longer, sustainable type of funding envelope — either some sort of formula that we can rely on to some degree…. In any event, this particular initiative and suggestion has probably been put forward by many, many others, so we’re not going to be dwelling a great deal on that.

I do want to spend a little bit more time on the next two — first of all, the aboriginal services plan project that the government has through Advanced Education. Only 11 colleges and universities throughout the province are able to take part in that initiative, which was started many years ago and has never been changed or amended to allow additional institutions to participate.

There’s been enough research done on it, and the pilot has taken place, really, for a long time. It’s time to allow other institutions, especially such as ours way in the north…. We do service a large, sparse area, largely aboriginal in scope in some of these areas, and we aren’t able to present and provide the services and the environment that are needed for their special learning.

We would like to encourage the government to open up the aboriginal services plan funding to all institutions — not by splitting up what’s there but by adding to it. Otherwise, that whole initiative is standing still.

J. Kurjata: Then with our capital funding, one of the things that we’ve been working on for the past couple of years is building ourselves a new trades facility building in Dawson Creek. We need this trades training facility because the buildings we’re working in are buildings that were purchased from the U.S. Army when they had their barracks here in Dawson Creek. We’re still operating some of our skills training through those buildings and, obviously, need to update them.

The problem that we have is the requirement right now that we need some sort of support from industry or some investment from sources other than government to be able to get this project off the ground. That’s becoming increasingly difficult — especially in these times, with our area being in the northeast, the oil and gas industries and the slowdown that’s happened. It’s meant that there’s reduced support from them, and that’s posing challenges for us to be able to get this trades facility off the ground.

If at all, we would like to be able see that not so much emphasis be put on the partnership or the investment by outside sources into these facilities. We are told by them as well: “Once money comes from provincial or federal government, then we’ll jump into the foray as well.” So if we could have that alleviated a little bit, it would help us getting this trades facility off the ground.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just so you’re aware, we’re down to about two minutes now.

B. Kulmatycki: Okay. Just to begin to wrap up the presentation, we do have strong relationships with many agencies and many industrial partners. One of the handicaps that we face here in the very far north is that the population base is thin.

Although there’s a lot of industry up here doing work, the downturn in the oil and gas economy is having an impact on us and is having an impact on our ability to solicit contributions from industry for our trades training facility, which continues to stall because we are unable to solicit revenues. We had huge commitments at first, but more recently, they have been turning away from us.

J. Kurjata: Really, in conclusion, despite the current market conditions, we still have to be able to look out two to five years down the road. There are still developments happening in this area with regards to getting the natural gas out to the west coast — projects that people are going to need skilled workers for.

If we can just continue to look out those two to five years, we’re going to get the return on investment that the government should really be looking at as what their investment in education is. Turning the students into taxpayers is how one former minister put it. It doesn’t become a cost anymore. It becomes revenue to the government.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Terrific. All right. If that concludes your presentation, then thank you very much. I’ll go to the committee for any questions they might have.

M. Morris: Bryn, good to hear from you. Just a comment more than anything else. We’re also suffering the consequences of the downturn in the oil and gas and some of the other commodity prices we have as a provincial government. The amount of money coming in has been reduced somewhat, so we’re dealing with that issue.

The question I have, I guess, is…. The expanded community-based delivery for aboriginal learners. You say it’s restricted to 11 institutions in the province here. Do you know what the criteria are and why you may be excluded? I know you’ve got quite a large First Nations population up there.

B. Kulmatycki: Initially, when the project was introduced a long time ago, institutions were asked to submit proposals. I’m going back maybe six, seven, eight years ago, before my time. A number of colleges submitted proposals. Eleven were accepted. I think the understanding at that time was it was sort of a pilot project. It has now become more of a permanent fixture, except it’s still restricted to the 11 institutions.

We keep asking for it to get opened up, but that has not produced any results on our end here. So we do not
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have an aboriginal services plan project. We do not get funding for it. It doesn’t jeopardize anything, but it really handicaps us.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation. I’ve got two questions. We’ve heard from a number of colleges and community colleges throughout our deliberations. You didn’t mention adult basic education, which has come up at a number of presentations. I’m wondering if this is a concern for you.

The second one, very different, is on the trades-training issue. I take it that you’ve got campuses satellited around the north. I’m wondering how you arrange the trades training — whether you are able to take this to the different communities or whether it is an expectation that students are going to have to come to one of the more central campuses.

I represent the north Island. We’ve got North Island College, which has satellite campuses but only certain programs in certain campuses. I’m wondering how you deal with that geographically.

B. Kulmatycki: First of all, for the adult basic education. Northern Lights College did not experience any reduction in students as a result of that. They are continuing to come. We do have programs to subsidize the tuitions. It seems to be working here so far. We have had no negative impact on that initiative here.

On the trades training. We do have facilities in many campuses to offer trades training. The initiative to deliver it remotely is handicapped a little bit by two factors. One, the ITA requires about eight individuals to make up a class — sort of a minimum. They actually want 16. These small communities can’t produce those kinds of numbers for a very specific trades delivery. Secondly, throughout the northern part of B.C., a lot of the students do not have the prerequisites yet to enrol in trades, so we really need a pre-trades program to get them ready to qualify to register in trades.

C. Trevena: Very briefly. Do you have the capacity to do the pre-trades training in the various campuses to get and encourage more people to get involved?

E. Foster: Just a quick question. I’m on your webpage. It shows October 13 to December 18, Fort St. John campus, 16 seats for apprentice electrician level 2. Is that like a pre-apprenticeship program, or is that the first intake on a full apprenticeship?

B. Kulmatycki: No, that’s the second year already of an apprenticeship program, so those students would have already done any prerequisites that they need. They would have completed the first year of foundations. They would have then gone out to industry and got some industry to indenture them as a working arrangement, and then that industry is now supporting them through levels 2, 3 and 4. That’s an ongoing, full apprenticeship program.

E. Foster: Now just quickly, to follow up. Are those 16 seats full? Do you have that many going into second-year apprentice there that they jump on that?

B. Kulmatycki: As far as I know, we do. I don’t know that we necessarily fill every trades delivery completely, but by and large, if we’re offering it, it pays and sustains itself.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Terrific. Thank you, gentlemen, for taking the time to present to the committee. Keep up the good work, and we look forward to continuing to hear from you.

The committee will take a brief recess. We’ll try to get back at, say, half past — our next presenter is at 10:35; that person might be a little early — so that we can stay on schedule and try to get out of here by lunchtime.

S. Hamilton (Chair): I’ll call the committee back to order. On the phone, we should have Madeline Keller-Macleod and Reilly Walker of the Northwest Community College Students Union.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Good morning. Just to let you know, we’ll have ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you with a couple of minutes to go so that you can conclude your thoughts, and then we will go to the committee with questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours.

M. Keller-Macleod: Sounds good. My name is Madeline Keller-Macleod. I am the organizer, services and advocacy, for the Northwest Community College Students Union, and with me is Reilly Walker, executive representative for the union. Thank you for taking the time to receive our input into the preparation of the upcoming British Columbia budget.

The Northwest Community College Students Union represents students at regional campuses from Prince
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Rupert to Haida Gwaii and is committed to advocating for a high-quality, accessible and publicly funded post-secondary system in B.C. Our presentation to you today will focus on the importance of adult basic education, or ABE, and university credit programs in the northwest.

Adult basic education courses allow students to complete a high school level education, increase their basic literacy and numeracy, and prepare to return to the post-secondary system after a time away, in case of a need to upgrade their education or retrain in order to better qualify for the current job market.

Adult basic education provided through colleges and university colleges allows these adult learners to complete their education in a setting that focuses on adult learners rather than returning to a high school environment. This is particularly important because many adult learners gain confidence in the post-secondary environment during their upgrading, which provides these students a gateway into programs at the post-secondary level.

Adult basic education is an important feeder program for many colleges and university colleges in B.C. However, for others, adult basic education allows them to increase their math and literacy skills.

We know that 40 percent of adults in British Columbia have difficulty reading a newspaper, filling out a work application or understanding a rental agreement, while 49 percent of adults in B.C. do not have the skills necessary to create a budget, calculate sales tax or understand credit card interest rates. Adult basic education allows these individuals to increase competency in these areas and helps improve their quality of life.

Adult basic education students also represent some of the most marginalized members of our society. For example, aboriginal peoples make up 18 percent of ABE students in B.C. compared to 10 percent in the K-to-12 system and only 3 percent of university graduates.

The government of British Columbia eliminated all tuition fees for adult basic education in 1998 and again in 2007, after fees had been reintroduced, in recognition that many adults who require high school education are not in a position to pay for these courses. This change was implemented on January 1, 2008, and opened the door to many students previously prevented from accessing the education they needed.

The funds spent providing tuition-free adult basic education were, and should remain, an investment in providing literacy and numeracy skills as well as prerequisite access to those with some of the greatest needs for education in our province.

While the 2013 report of this committee recommended that the government continue support for ABE programs — as well as making enhancements when possible — this year, due to a reversal of government policy, adult basic education students are being charged up to $3,200 per year in new tuition fees for high school level courses, and $6.9 million has been cut from adult education programs in British Columbia.

Due to a loss of funding, at the Northwest Community College, adult basic education programs have been changed from instructor-led to self-paced, with one instructor overlooking multiple grade levels. Members have reported that this creates a barrier for the successful completion of their courses and that they feel they have little support to excel in their studies.

Adult basic education is also no longer offered at our Kitimat campus, so these students often have no choice but to bus to Terrace. In Hazelton, physics, computer studies and social studies were cut from adult basic education, and the campus now offers only math and English, with some of the math courses in Hazelton costing $500, a price that few can afford in such a low-income area and which bands do not have the money to pay for.

It is also important to note that this region has particularly low levels of grade 12 completion and that this community college is one of the few places that adults who were unable to complete grade 12 before they turned 18 could go to graduate — which is a necessary requirement for most entry-level jobs.

The students union recommends that the province recommit to providing sustained funding to British Columbian institutions offering adult basic education and that this funding should cover the full costs of offering these programs, to ensure that those from low-income backgrounds are not shut out of the education they require from the post-secondary system and, instead, have the opportunity to reach their full potential, allowing them to better contribute to their communities and to British Columbia’s economy.

R. Walker: As Madeline briefly alluded to, ABE is essential for many to get into university-level programming. For many, Northwest Community College is the gateway into a university-level education and the first step to a fulfilling and essential career in the arts and sciences.

I took the environmental geoscience program here at Northwest Community College, under the university credit program in Terrace, and it was truly a very fulfilling experience. The courses here are very hands-on. The one-to-one interaction with the instructors is bar none. It’s sad to see that so many of the courses that were once offered — even during my time here, which was just two years ago — are now being made totally unavailable to students outside of Terrace and Prince Rupert.

Many courses are now being offered less often. This essentially has made the university credit program, which was once really open for students to attain an associate degree at their own accord, a cohort-based program in which students are forced into the streams of geoscience or social service work or nursing when they otherwise
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weren’t. This, essentially, limits the students that can come here.

It limits how students can work the education around their schedules. Many, of course, are here on a part-time basis because they need to work. They have families to support. They need to be working just to pay rent. Many are not as lucky as me — to be full-time students and not need to worry about rent or food or getting their children to school every day.

It saddens me to see that what was once a strong offering and a true gateway for many, including myself, to getting fulfilling careers is being shut. It’s being slammed shut on many of us. The fact that there are no university credit offerings, face to face, in Smithers this year is truly a testament to, really, the lack of respect being shown to people in the northwest, people who depend on the college for a chance to move ahead in life. I hate to see the opportunity that I’ve had to enter the college, to complete an associate degree and to move on to UNBC be lost upon anyone else.

Certainly, I’ve heard from Doug Donaldson, the MLA for that area, some of these concerns already. I guess the question would be: when it comes to adult basic education, what have you been hearing anecdotally from students about what this means for their futures? I know you started to share some of the difficulties. Do you think it will lead to people not doing studies at all, to getting stuck in a rut? What kinds of things are you hearing?

M. Keller-Macleod: Part of it I kind of touched on before about the instructor-led courses being changed to self-paced courses. That’s an issue that we know is really making it more difficult for members to complete the program. Usually you would have an instructor actually teaching you the materials, and you would be in a class of people doing the same work as you. Instead, now it’s just…. You come into the class, and you’re expected to kind of motivate yourself to get through the materials. There’s no actual instruction on that.

For many people who are accessing adult basic education, even filling out the paperwork needed to get to a classroom can be quite difficult. They’re actually going to upgrade their education. Often they’ve been away from a school environment for so long that they don’t have the skills to get themselves through a self-paced program. So that is going to be a big issue for students at NWCC.

I wanted to know…. You mentioned that generally in adult basic education, there is a high proportion of aboriginal students. I’m very cognizant of where you’re based. What proportion of aboriginal students have been accessing adult basic education at Northwest Community College?

Secondly, with the increase in costs and the reduction in access, with fewer classes available in fewer communities, have you been able to keep any records of a drop in enrolment, or are you hearing this just from conversation, from discussions? If you’ve got any statistics.

My third question. Obviously, the difficulty for many people is just filling out the forms to enrol. What sort of support can you give to those students who want to access adult basic education?

M. Keller-Macleod: Thank you for your question. On the issue of what proportion of ABE students are identified as aboriginal, I don’t actually have that number on hand, but I would be happy to find that answer and get it back to you. I also don’t have numbers for the drops in enrolment. We do know that enrolment is decreasing. I can get you that information as well.

In terms of support for being able to access the program, one thing that happened when the government slashed the funding for the program was that they created these kinds of grants that were accessible. They’re quite difficult to obtain. The kinds of income brackets that allow you to access the grants shut out a lot of people who would still need help.

One thing that the college has done is that they have actually had to hire another staff person to support students in filling out the forms. I think this is a positive thing, although it means that college resources are still being taken up. We had the cut for the programming, and now we also have to, additionally, put more funding into helping people even get into these courses. I think that probably is helping to keep enrolment up, but often, once students see the forms, if they don’t know about the support that’s available to them, that’s the point that they give up.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much for your presentation. I appreciate it. We’re plumb out of time, but very well presented, and a lot of good information. We appreciate your taking the time to present to the committee. Have a good day.

S. Hamilton (Chair): On the line we should have Michelle Mobley of Dawson Creek Literacy Now.

Ms. Mobley, welcome. Good morning. I’ll just let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a little rude acknowledgment of about two minutes left so that you can conclude your thoughts, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours.

M. Mobley: Good morning. I’m Michelle Mobley. I’ve been a literacy outreach coordinator with Literacy Now here in Dawson Creek for over five years.

I’d first like to thank the committee for the recommendations that were made in the past years regarding regular, continued funding for community literacy coordination in British Columbia. Though it was less funding than we required, we are grateful that the Ministry of Education provided Decoda with $2 million at the end of the 2014-15 fiscal year. Those funds helped us to run literacy and learning programs in communities across the province and right here in Dawson Creek for at least one more year.

Currently there is no multi-year funding and no commitment for the 2015-2016 fiscal year. That makes literacy work in this province and in my community very unstable and uncertain. Without a commitment to regular funding, it becomes increasingly difficult to expand or create new programs in an effort to fulfil needs.

The positive impact of literacy funding on our communities can’t be denied. It affects everything from personal health and employment to the economy and civic participation. Funding enables us to reach all corners of the community, including adults, youth, children and families, seniors, aboriginal peoples and immigrants.

Here in Dawson Creek, we maintain eight public book-share locations, where people of all ages and abilities can access a variety of free reading material. We’ve been providing technology classes for our community seniors for over four years.

Literacy Now also provides information, as well as referrals, to other community agencies. I’ve been contacted by folks looking for everything from interactive parent-child groups and settlement services to someone who was just recently looking for help for their 70-year-old friend, who wanted to learn how to read and write.

We provide books at local events and programs. We sit on boards and tables, like Success By 6 and the Building Learning Together society, which is the early learning division of school district 59. We co-plan local family-friendly events with our community partners, and we work tirelessly to increase awareness of the importance and value of literacy in our community and in our province.

I’d like to ask the committee once more to make the recommendation that the province make a commitment to provide regular annual funding in the amount of $2½ million for literacy in British Columbia. I’d like to thank you so much for your time and your consideration.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Oh, goodness. I think that sets a record for one of the shortest presentations.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, no, but I will tell you that your message has resonated in many different communities, and we’ve heard the same themes. We’re well versed on your efforts in terms of the work you’re doing. But I will go the committee for questions, if they have any.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation. As the Chair said, we have been hearing a lot from literacy associations around the province. I’m just wondering, in your own community, how many people you are serving and how you’re making contact with them — what the approaches are.

M. Mobley: That’s a difficult question for me to answer, because some literacy outreach coordinators are directly embedded within literacy organizations and I am not. I just deal strictly with community coordination.

It’s hard for me to measure exactly how many people I reach. But I can give measurements based on things like…. Last year, we gave away about 35,000 pieces of reading material, whether that was books, puzzles, games, magazines, resource booklets — that type of thing.

How we reach people is basically through our community partnerships. Like I mentioned, I work with Success By 6, with the school districts, our South Peace resources society. It’s through my community partners that I reach the public, if you will.

S. Gibson: One of the things I have noted and acknowledged here at these meetings, related to my own community of Abbotsford, is that on occasion, the people that most need help with literacy, particularly adults, tend to be so embarrassed and so ashamed about their incompetence that they don’t come forward and, in fact, potentially are a drain on the economy and struggle their way through life.

I’m just wondering: how do you find people in your own community to come forward and essentially admit their weakness and receive the skills and teaching they need?

M. Mobley: Well, I would say in our community, we are fortunate. We’re only a community of about 12,000 people, which really isn’t that many. After a couple of years, you know everybody in town.
[ Page 1855 ]

I do work very closely with the Dawson Creek Literacy Society. One of my other hats that I wear — I am an adult ed instructor. One of the ways that we reach people is through outreach programs through the literacy society, where we will go to rural communities where there are language problems, literacy problems. In a lot of our rural communities, English is not the first language.

We work closely there and also, like I mentioned before, with the school district, with the Nawican Friendship Centre. We have a lot of great partnerships that put us directly in touch with the people who need help the most.

I think the way that we design a lot of our programs is…. We try to make it as easy and comfortable for people as possible, if that makes sense, by keeping things casual and letting people learn when they are ready to learn and when they’re comfortable. My classes, for example, are drop-in. People have life situations that get in the way all the time. We try to be as understanding and as flexible with that as we can so that it doesn’t become a barrier to them learning.

G. Heyman: I don’t really have questions, because I’ve had an opportunity over the last two years to ask a lot of questions of the variety of literacy organizations from communities around the province that have come forward.

I just want to thank you for the presentation, as well as all of your colleagues, and for giving us a very distinct flavour. You did a very good job of that today of exactly how you meet the very specific needs of your community. I think it’s a great model, and hopefully your wish will come true.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much, Ms. Mobley, for taking the time to present to the committee. It was obviously well received. On behalf of the committee, thank you for the work you do. It’s very important for the community in general and our province as a whole, so thank you very much.

S. Hamilton (Chair): We have someone via Skype. We have David Try of Northwest Community College.

Welcome. You have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to get your attention with two minutes left, so you can conclude your thoughts. Then we can go to the committee for questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours.

D. Try: I’ll use my formal title. I’m David Try. I’m the interim dean of instruction at Northwest Community College. I’d like to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. I assume the sound quality is fine or I’d see you waving or something.

This year, NWC is celebrating our 40th anniversary. As you probably know, we’re an accredited post-secondary institution, serving the rich and diverse communities of B.C.’s northwest corner of the world with nine regional campuses — 34 communities. We deliver the skills and programs necessary in today’s competitive job market and a wide range of programming to meet specific needs, identified and in our communities, both in the trades and academic side of the house.

Academically, we’re a provider of low-cost university transfer credit, allowing students to complete their first two years of a degree closer to home. The data shows that university credits who started at college anywhere in B.C. — probably anywhere in Canada — perform significantly better than those who go directly to university. I am one of those students, by the way, but from Ontario. We’re proud to support students at Northwest Community College through this process.

Secondly, we teach and instruct students in the top areas of growth — I’m in the LNG world — identified in B.C.’s skills-for-jobs blueprint, through a number of our specialty programs. I’ll just mention a couple in passing. The School of Exploration and Mining develops and delivers essential courses and programs for the mining industry and the minerals industry. This means job-ready skills and students.

We’ve got a number of innovative programs and delivery. You’ve seen some of the press releases that have come out about our little camp adventure, providing student accommodation. Also, we hope to use that to train people to work in camps, such as you’ll find in mines.

We, as well, deliver training for health care professionals to our province, and especially the north. We know that when we educate students in the north, we have a much better retention rate both at our college for the nurses and also at UNBC for the doctors. They’ll stay here, because they’re from here and they’ve been trained here.

Naturally, we offer a wide range of those trades foundation apprenticeship programs that are and continue to be in high demand in northern B.C., including carpentry, electrical, welding, heavy-equipment operators, among them.

We’re trying to find innovative ways, with your support, to deliver those training programs in communities. This July we unveiled, with one of the ministers present, our new mobile trades unit, or MTU, that helps students in Northwest Community College develop these services in the communities where they live, in the northwest community.

These MTUs directly improve student access to trades in remote communities by bringing the classroom to the
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community, increasing rates of participation for aboriginal people in the skilled labour force.

Many — especially the aboriginal people, but even in any small community — don’t have the luxury of attending a college in Terrace. They’ve got family and children and employment and responsibilities. That’s simply a fact of life. In Prince Rupert, the Applied Coastal Ecology program focuses on marine and environmental issues related to Northwest College. It is one of only three in Canada. I know that because my daughter-in-law took that program. They study for careers in coastal natural resource management, ecosystems restoration and environmental monitoring — one of our success stories.

NWCC is a recognized leader in aboriginal education. About 45 percent of our students are of First Nations descent. We spend a fair bit of time and energy at our college making sure that we’re accessible to all cultures, including First Nations, with efforts over the last decade — I’d say ten years or so — to indigenize courses to inclusively reflect First Nations world views, plus the development of many courses and programs specific to a First Nations focus.

As an aside, my wife and I have a couple of teenage nieces from Telegraph Creek, way up north, living with us, attending school in Terrace — all status First Nations — along with my…. You should have seen their eyes on their first day at school, when they showed up at a school of 600 kids — middle school, of course — when their entire primary school in Telegraph Creek has 35 students. Their eyes were just like saucers.

I work at this college because I want to make sure that these students, plus my own daughters, are able to start their post-secondary education in our college. Actually, my oldest daughter has already started. For them, we are the big city. You know, Terrace is a monstrously big city. We’ve got a Walmart and everything. So we’re well positioned. I believe my college, this college, is well positioned as an institution to take that kind of active role, to transition students from isolated and remote communities, wherever they are, and get them ready to move into university education at UNBC or down in Vancouver.

Of course, we’re well positioned as an institution to have an active role in helping all levels of government — provincial, federal — to uphold their commitments outlined in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report.

Whenever possible, we aim to promote experimental learning through our region’s unique cultural heritage and spectacular and rugged environment. We’ve got a lot of field schools, and the students attending them report they are highly satisfied and it’s a great learning experience.

We regularly partner with industry to provide on-the-ground training with them and continuing study contracts, as well, for targeted training.

In order to offer these programs, of course, we rely on financial and other support from governments of all kinds, and we seek to create those partnerships that I just mentioned. Naturally, we see ourselves as more than a college providing educational services. We’re an active participant in local economies and help shape the future direction of the economy of this province.

You know, I think, from other evidence that was probably presented to you — I hope you do, anyway — that the return on investment for post-secondary is excellent, anywhere in Canada. We contribute to that local economy with 236 full-time-equivalent employees and roughly $160 million in total economic value.

We are actively engaged in supporting your B.C.’s skills-for-jobs blueprint, and we do see this as urgent. We see the economy bumbling and booming up here. I see this on the streets. I see trucks driving by with new signs on the side, thinking: what company is that from, and how can we make sure that our college supports their workers?

We know from your data and our data that there’s a tremendous amount of jobs opening up in this province, with the baby boomers, such as myself, retiring over the next five to ten years, and we want to make sure that we provide training to get those students ready to take those jobs — our jobs perhaps.

Well-trained and dedicated people are the greatest asset for any company or in the economy as a whole — society, I guess. The importance of what we’re doing as an educator can’t be understated, I don’t believe.

D. Try: We’re trying to be innovative in the way that we deliver service over a large, large geographic area. Of course, the biggest challenge in small and rural colleges is to provide some level of equality of services, and we’re doing that through those mobile trades units, through exploring distance and on-line education, through making sure that we support aboriginals in small communities — often what I would call teeny communities, as I mentioned before.

I should mention that we created…. I’ll skip that. We have a First Nations Council which helps us make sure that the stuff that we do up here is respected and encompasses First Nations culture.

We’re engaged in dual credit. I can tell you that my daughter’s boyfriend took the ACE program last year at Northwest Community College, and this year both of them are in community college. I can tell you, as a parent, that makes me happy.

We’ve got an adult special education program. So we try to make sure that we deal with everybody from the most challenged to our most successful students that are ready to go on to professional careers, through university.

Let me just close for one second. I’d like to thank you
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for the opportunity to share ways in which our college, Northwest Community College, is contributing to the economic prosperity of our region and the education of that future labour force that I mentioned. We’d like to thank you and appreciate the support that we receive from the provincial government in order to provide this range of services and programs for our students, this region and B.C.’s overall economy.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Fantastic. Well done. Thank you, Mr. Try. I appreciate that.

You guys have risen to the challenge out there. It’s a unique situation we have in northwest B.C., with all of the resource development that we have, not only in LNG. We’ve got some great mining prospects with some of the mines that are opening up, up there.

Good on you. We look forward to Northwest Community College prospering in the future.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation. I’ve got two questions. I always seem to have two questions.

One is…. We’ve just had a presentation from your student union talking about adult basic education. I’m wondering if you’ve got any statistics on the decline in students registering for adult basic education and the cost comparison. I understand that the college has hired a staff person to help people enrol in adult basic education — so the cost of that compared to the numbers.

The other question is…. We had a presentation earlier — and we’ve had presentations from other rural colleges — about a college that has campuses spread around the region — how you deliver the trades programs and how you’re getting the mobile trades training out there with the limited student cohorts who could engage in this.

D. Try: Certainly. The changes in the adult basic education or CCP, as we tend to call it at my college, are the introduction of tuition when there was no tuition prior to this and the AUG grants, which help students pay for that tuition. I think that we are down, I would estimate, 30 percent at the moment. I expect that that will continue to increase as we get….

Students continuously enrol. It’s not a September-December enrolment. It’s continuous. I’d say that as we get both the institution and the students — well, the institution is probably okay now — and, especially, First Nations bands understanding how this new model will work through more, really, continuous communications, I think that we’ll be back to where we were last year.

I’ve only been in this job for eight weeks, but I’d say that I cannot see anywhere in my entire spectrum of the world — I’ve been with the college for ten years — that there’s a reduced demand or need for CCP education. I think what we’re seeing is a serious transition.

We just met with the AVED person a second ago, talking about how we’re going to try to increase or make the AUG application process easier.

Our staff certainly find…. I hear — of course, I don’t know — that the form is difficult and complex to fill in. But I would say that there is an effort underway to simplify that and make sure that, as we understand it, we can help our students.

I see that we’re in a transitional year, and because the change was introduced in December rather than a year earlier…. I live on a reserve. The First Nations…. The education adviser there told me that they didn’t really have a budget set up this year for this change and that they’re scrambling a little bit. That’s anecdotal evidence, for sure.

Your second question related to trades. We deliver trades often in partnership with the high schools. We’ll send out a chef, and they’ll run a cooking course in the local high schools.

We do it sometimes with industry. In the mining program, we set up a camp, and we use those mobile trades units. I think we have somewhere between four and seven of those units. We’ve got one for health. We’ve got a monster one we just received, with support from the government and the ministry, at $1.6 million. But please don’t quote me on that. It was a beautiful trailer.

We’ve got two trailers in Hazelton right now delivering a foundations program. There was a trailer in Haida Gwaii earlier this year when I was doing a workshop over there, delivering a welding program.

Really, these trailers and the high schools and, to a lesser extent, any other partners that we can find is where we deliver the training. For us, it’s not particularly difficult to send an instructor to a location, as long as they’ve got a place to teach.

We just bought two little RVs so that we can send an instructor up to Gingolx up at the far end of the Nass. There are no hotels up there, so we bought a couple of little mobile trailers. We’ll haul it up behind the truck, and the instructor will live in that trailer for the six weeks or the eight weeks while their course is on. We bought them used too.

We’re pretty innovative in trying to deliver those services in small communities. We see that as a key part of being a community college.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Mr. Try. Obviously, I think, you’re espousing what I believe to be great values in terms of the way you’re being creative and inspiring. I congratulate you on your new position. On behalf of the
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committee, thank you for the work that you’re doing. I appreciate you coming forward and presenting your position and informing us all of the wonderful things that are being done in your community. Thank you again.

Please come forward. While you’re getting yourself settled, I’ll just let you know: ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a hi sign when it’s time to conclude, maybe with two minutes left, and then we can go to the committee for questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours. Welcome.

R. McElroy: Good morning. Thank you, Chair and Members, for having me today to speak to you. My name is Rachelle McElroy, and I’m the executive director of the Coastal Invasive Species Committee, or the Coastal ISC, as we call it.

Our operation area, just so that I can paint the picture for you, covers quite a large area of 60,000 square kilometres, which is all of Vancouver Island, the Gulf Islands and the Sunshine Coast. Our area consists of nine regional districts, 37 municipalities, 15 Gulf Islands and 57 First Nations, so we have quite a lot of partners there.

One of the handouts that you have in front of you is this map, and it highlights all the regional invasive species committees or organizations that are working together to prevent the introduction and spread of invasive species in British Columbia.

The reason I want to point this to you is because it’s very innovative. This is unique to the rest of Canada. In B.C. this collaborative approach — it works. You’re helping to fund that, and that’s fantastic. But there are gaps, and that’s why I’m here today to just talk about those.

First of all, I want to acknowledge you for the funding that you’re providing and for funding this collaborative approach that works. Also, because weeds know no boundaries, that’s why it’s so important for us to work collaboratively. That way, we don’t have to stop at the jurisdictional boundary. We can also share things like resources and best management practices. That really works.

It’s also such a refreshing way to work, so that we don’t have to be competing with each other but working collaboratively.

For many years now, regional invasive species committees have been making presentations to the Standing Committee on Finance. In 2013, we actually did quite a collaborative approach and had regional weed committees speak to the standing committee as it made its way across the province. You heard from different groups, and we tag-teamed on key messages so that you could hear from us and also learn at the same time about invasive species.

At that time, Gail Wallin, from the Invasive Species Council of B.C., mentioned that the province is funding in the range of $4 million to $6 million in invasive species management. That’s over the years. Basically, that amount needs to double in order to get ahead of invasive species and have an effective program.

As a result of that presentation in 2013, what happened? There was a recommendation made to the Legislature to allocate funding for the proactive prevention and management of invasive species.

Similar to that, in 2014, there were also more presentations by regional invasive species committees.

As a result of that, nothing’s changed. The amount of funding that we’ve received has been the same — or, for our committee, a bit less. There are more regional invasive species committees coming on board, so that money has to be distributed to more groups.

I’m asking you, members of the committee: what can we do? This is a concern that we all share as regional invasive species committees. I’m the Coastal ISC, and I’m representing the other 13 groups, or 17 if you include regional districts. We’re your allies, and we’re also part of the solution. I want you to help us help you and help British Columbians and help our biodiversity here that we love so much and why we live here.

Not only is funding an issue; to protect beautiful B.C., we must really double its investment. There’s also a lack of leadership at the province. I’m asking you: where is the leadership? For example, the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations is short-staffed. Four years ago, our invasive plant specialist on the coast left his position and hasn’t been replaced. His duties were passed on to another staff person. In the springtime, an invasive plant specialist for the Interior retired, and that position hasn’t been filled. It’s been empty. That person played a key role to support these committees — seven to eight committees.

What’s so important about having a key staff in the province is that they help to implement tools that really make our job so much better and also help British Columbians — for example, tools like the Weed Control Act. For five years now, I’ve heard that the Weed Control Act is going to be updated so that it has more teeth, so we have enforcement behind it. I’ve heard the same presentation for three years by provincial staff. Where is it?

Why that piece of legislation is so important is it’s preventing, for example, the sale of invasive plants. We want to work upstream here. We don’t want to work with the results and having to manage that. We want to prevent the introduction of invasive species. That’s where you save money. That’s where education comes into play.

Just to give you an example of my frustration. In Coombs here, you can buy yellow flag iris. At the same time, we’re spending millions of dollars removing it from our wetlands.
[ Page 1859 ]

Not to point the finger at the horticultural industry, because they’re just doing their business, but let’s take the guesswork out for them. Let’s help them by telling them which plants are invasive and which ones are not so that they’re not selling them.

Also, invasive species management tools. For example, if we had more staff at the provincial level, they could be putting in place pesticide use permits so that we have access to aquatic herbicides or other tools that prevent invasive species from encroaching in our riparian areas that are so important for fish and for water quality.

Also, in front of you, you have a brochure with different invasive plants. One of those plants there is knotweed. If you’re not aware of knotweed, you should really become aware, because this is a plant that grows four centimetres a day, compared to a blade of grass, which grows 15 millimetres a day. It’s originally from Asia. It can grow through — actually push through — one metre of concrete. So if you have a concrete foundation — if you think of bridge footings — all those cause infrastructure issues and also property degradation. Property values are decreasing.

Those plants, for example, are encroaching in our riparian areas, and we don’t have the tools to manage them. So what’s happening is pieces of knotweed are breaking off and being carried down the river. The Cowichan River here — if you ever float down it, you’ll see all the knotweed that’s spreading. That’s a key river for Cowichan Tribes First Nations and also recreation.

Not only is the lack of leadership and these tools really impacting — it really hurts our local citizens — but the problem is actually getting worse. Not only do we have invasive species spreading, but we also have climate change. We have a double jeopardy happening.

These two key challenges that are impacting our biodiversity — what does that look like? Not only are invasive species spreading because of us and how our world is becoming more interconnected, but they’re migrating to areas that models could not have predicted would exist.

For example, in Naramata, in the South Okanagan, we have European fire ants. Models could not have predicted European fire ants even surviving there or being prolific.

I’m going to keep going down here and kind of wrap up because I want to get to some questions. I just want to say that you’re funding a great program. The approach is amazing and unique, and I want to encourage that.

If you double your investment, you’re investing in us — regional invasive species committees. Also, you’re investing in the solution. If you invest in that, you’re investing in jobs and investing in a protection of our biodiversity. Not only will you be protecting B.C., but you’ll be investing in British Columbians at the same time. I just want to let you know that this is doable. It’s not too late, but let’s not lose our momentum.

Thank you, members of the committee, for your time and attention this morning. It’s great to see nodding heads and recognition of this issue.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Terrific. Thank you, Ms. McElroy. I appreciate the presentation.

S. Chandra Herbert: Thank you so much for your passion. It’s so fabulous to see.

I found religion on this issue. I found passion on this issue when pulling out English ivy in a local park and then going by the store and seeing them sell exactly the same thing that we were pulling out. You can see it, of course. The yellow iris I’ve seen as well — many other places, other kinds of species.

You asked us how we could help you help us. I think one thing that would at least be useful would be if invasive species councils in the regions invited MLAs to come out to a species pull or to an area where we’re trying to recuperate, restore an area. It becomes clear very quickly why we need a better Weed Control Act, why we need more support for invasive species councils.

You’re right. The problem is getting worse and will continue to get worse unless we manage it and manage it down and then always stay on top of it.

Thank you very much for your passion, and let us know when we can come out for a tour. Once you’ve seen it personally, it’s pretty hard to forget.

S. Gibson: I always encourage my university students: “Get excited about something.” I don’t have to ask you that.

But what I struggle with sometimes, and I think all of us do this…. We’re observers. We drive by in our car. We see the tansy ragwort. We don’t really know what to do.

That’s part of it — empowering people to know what to do. Am I supposed to park, get out of my car and yank it out? But then what do I do with it?

An important part — and this is excellent — of your program should be, and maybe it is, to try to empower people to know what to do as individuals, rather than saying: “Oh, it’s their job. They can look after it.”

R. McElroy: That’s great. That’s why it’s so great to have these regional committees in different regions of the province. So we hope that citizens, when they ask, “What can I do?” are contacting their local regional invasive species committee. But thanks for that feedback as well.
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I represent the North Island. We’ve seen, as I’m driving along up Highway 19, signs warning about knotweed, in the culverts and that.

Again, taking Simon’s approach, what does one do? You’ve got little signs along the roadside. Okay, we’ve got a knotweed problem here, or we are trying to prevent knotweed coming in.

Likewise, there’s a place where I cycle past every day, and it looks really pretty. They’ve got yellow irises in their culverts. But it’s their property and those yellow irises are there. You are starting to see them spread. Should I go knock on the door and say: “You really should dig them out”?

And my final point on this is looking at the contain. The daphne and the buddleja. You can get them at nearly all garden stores, even responsible garden stores. I shop at a garden store where I have great faith in the person who sells me the products but, coming from England, I like buddleja. I almost bought a buddleja. It was only because I didn’t have a place in the yard to put it that stopped me from getting it.

How do you get that message to all the garden stores, not just the Superstores and that, but the on-the-ground small ones in small communities?

R. McElroy: That’s great that you’re seeing those signs. Hopefully, that’s generating some awareness. There’s a Report-a-Weed app that you can download on your phone and report weeds in the province, and then that goes into our database and into our planning. That’s a really great tool to use.

For the horticulture industry, our only way to go about that is education. The Invasive Species Council of B.C. has a PlantWise program, and it’s working with nurseries — so for industry as well as gardeners that are looking to buy different invasive plants.

That is a program, but once again, it’s not…. We used to be able to get stipends to help deliver these programs in our region, but that’s not available. We get the resources in exchange for gathering numbers on commitments from the public in terms of do they commit to not buying invasive plants. We have to exchange numbers for resources. In the past, we’ve had stipends to hire people to bring these programs to nurseries and horticulture and gardeners in our region. So that’s a real gap. Yes, there’s a program, but the delivery of it — there’s limited funding for that for regional invasive plant committees.

I agree that’s a huge preventative, especially on the coast where gardening is…. Everybody’s doing it.

S. Hamilton (Chair): We’re out of time, but I’m going to continue with one more question because we haven’t heard too much from you folks through our deliberations and our tour so far. I’m always interested in what’s going on.

D. Ashton: Thanks for your enthusiasm. I know Ms. Wallin’s always very good at keeping us informed on it.

I just need to say, as a former chair of a regional district, for years and years and years we put money into reports. Report after report after report that we got. Several years ago, an area director said enough. We’re starting to put money into the ground, and I really think that that needs to happen.

You mentioned the fire ants. We had an opportunity to get on those things a lot quicker than we did, and it didn’t happen. And it’s a shame it didn’t happen. Those little spike things that are down in Osoyoos. We should be in those gulleys and those ditches spraying it with Roundup.

I had an infestation of thistles come into one of my pastures. We got in there right away and whacked it with Roundup, and it has held it back. It hasn’t stopped it, but it has held it back.

I think there needs to be a lot more proactivity in it. You mentioned these nurseries. If these nurseries know that they’re selling something…. We have to take responsibility. Maybe it’s time these nurseries start getting shamed into not selling some of this product which is creating havoc elsewhere. Might be some angle that you may look at.

R. McElroy: That’s a really great point, being proactive. I think also…. A lot of our funding comes in later, too late to be ahead of when certain plants go to seed, and that’s where you want to catch them, before they flower. Especially this year, when the spring happened so early, and we didn’t get our funding till July. We’ve already missed quite a few species, so that’s one of our challenges.

Also, yes, we have to be strategic. For example, knotweed and giant hogweed are two species we really focus on, on the coast. We’re not able to get all of it, because we don’t have enough money. So we have to be strategic and have established containment lines. We focus on the outliers first and then work to contain and control within the containment areas.

What happens is that communities that are within those containment areas don’t get any action on the ground. Those are communities that are less desirable to live in. They impact property value, quality of life. It’s really challenging. We have to make those decisions.

D. Ashton: I just want to see feet on the ground — that’s what I’m after — and actually see some results coming forward. I say this with the utmost of respect. Instead of report after report after report, start showing it. We spend the money.

That’s what happened at the regional district. I’ve been away from it a couple of years. But when I was there, we were starting to see that we were actually getting…. We were working in conjunction with West Kootenay Power
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at the time, Fortis now, starting to make a difference on their lines…. It’s a little piece. How do you eat an elephant? A little bit at a time.

My hats-off to you — a good job, and continue it. Your points will go forward today, and hopefully, we can make a difference for you.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Ms. McElroy, for taking the time to present. Enjoy the rest of your day.

As you’re getting yourself settled, you’ve probably heard the spiel already. Ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to get your attention with two minutes to go, so you can conclude your thoughts. Then we can go to the committee with questions. The floor is yours.

D. Elliott: You’re just receiving a handout now, and that handout is designed to provide some additional information and to help you follow along as I go through my speaking points.

I did just want to mention that Andrew Wynn-Williams is no longer with the coalition. He has moved on to another position. I am Don Elliott. I’m the housing development coordinator, and I’m going to be speaking on behalf of Mr. Wynn-Williams today.

D. Elliott: I just want to begin briefly by thanking you very much for giving me this opportunity to represent greater Victoria and the wide, wide array of stakeholders that are all passionately involved in pursuing an end to homelessness across the region — and for providing this opportunity to inform the budget process for 2016.

Beginning in 2008, the Coalition to End Homelessness is a true collaboration of various stakeholders, including the business sector, all levels of government, private citizens, research organizations, experiential individuals and others — all dedicated to ending homelessness in Greater Victoria.

Specifically, the coalition does five key things. First, we identify objectives and targets necessary to end homelessness, Second, we advocate for projects that will meet those objectives. Third, we conduct research to support the first two activities. Fourth, we engage in communications and outreach. Fifth, we coordinate efforts related to service delivery and related to procuring and providing housing opportunities for those individuals that are the most vulnerable residents of our community.

Before I begin talking about opportunities to invest or to enhance service delivery across these organizations, I wish to, first, touch on some of the drivers for homelessness. I believe that’s an important piece of informing the conversation. Looking at the top of page 2 of your handout, you’ll notice that there are three key drivers. Now, it’s important to note that every individual’s story is unique. However, there do remain three key similarities.

The first driver is personal. This could include mental health and/or a substance-use challenge. We know that a huge proportion of individuals experiencing homelessness may have one or more barriers to housing that would include mental health or a substance-use challenge.

The second is structural. That really is related to: incomes too low, housing costs too high. A very quick example. In this region, there are only about 4,500 bachelor and one-bedroom rental units that are less than $800 a month — 4,500. At current vacancy rates, the availability of those units….? There are about 76 vacant at any given time. We have thousands of people on wait-lists for affordable housing, for social housing. There are hundreds of people experiencing chronic homelessness yet only 76 units available in the entire region that are less than $800 a month.

The final driver is systemic, a classic example of people falling through the cracks. One example that I’ve highlighted here is youth aging out of care. A very recent study from Simon Fraser University identified that of study participants — that is, individuals in Vancouver experiencing homelessness — approximately 30 percent had been in ministry care in some point in their lives.

Now, the chart on the bottom of page 2 really just shows what some of these pressures can look like on an individual level. I just want to highlight one.

A single individual on income assistance, for example, would receive an approximate payment of $662 per month. The bachelor median rent in the region currently is a little over $730 a month. Island Health estimates that a healthy basket of food per month costs a little over $300. You add that up, and an individual on social assistance is $375 in the hole at the end of the first month.

What this looks like in terms of community impact is just highlighted on the top of page 3. In any given month, more than 20,000 individuals access a food bank. There are currently 2,000 people provisionally accommodated on any given evening. We have over 1,500 unique emergency-shelter-use incidences per year, and over 1,200 people are currently on the B.C. Housing social housing registry.

It’s this number of individuals accessing emergency shelter housing I wish to focus on. That’s that 1,548 number. The reason I want to focus on that is because it’s this number that really helps form the foundation of our initiatives, moving forward, to address specifically chronic homelessness — that is, individuals who, without social and health support services, would not likely be able to maintain a high level of housing stability.

It’s interesting to note that of all emergency shelter users, those individuals account for approximately 15
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percent of the total population yet consume over 55 percent of total emergency shelter resources. That is why we think that this specific group will be the best group to first try and support through our comprehensive and multi-pronged strategy.

Before I discuss our most recent plan, I wish to highlight two key success stories. The reason for doing this is to illustrate that we’re not trying to reinvent the wheel.

We’re taking community best practice, as well as research across the country and North America, and really focusing on what’s going to provide us, frankly, the best bang for our buck: what is going to get these individuals the best opportunity to achieve housing stability regardless of their unique barriers to housing. We’re looking at individualized, comprehensive support service programing done in a cost-effective and flexible way.

The first community response I wish to highlight is that, between 2008 and 2014, this community, with the support of B.C. Housing and Island Health, was successful in the completion and operation of 274 supportive housing units for individuals experiencing homelessness. This is a massive, massive win for the community and one that has proven success for individuals that require this specific level of support.

The second initiative I wish to highlight is a streets-to-homes program. This program is a fantastic community collaborative effort that supports individuals experiencing homelessness in private market rental housing through a combination of rental supplements — a payment to the individual to top up their shelter portion of their income assistance — and support services.

Both of these initiatives are the types of initiatives that are supported under Housing Matters B.C. 2014, and we do continue to work with the health authority and with B.C. Housing to ensure that programs like this are highlighted and the successes are shared.

Page 5 shows an infographic that speaks to a plan that we released recently. It is called Creating Homes, Enhancing Communities. Now, I spoke to that number — a little over 1,500 unique shelter use. What we have found through a thorough analysis of our emergency shelter use data is that there are approximately 367 individuals in the region that require this type of intensive support services.

Now, the two key pieces of this intervention that we need assistance with and we think would provide the best opportunities for this province, moving forward, would be focusing on rental supplements and focusing on support services, specifically social support services — those not under the mandate of a health authority.

Moving forward, what we seek is provincial leadership through a cross-ministerial initiative, bringing together the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation, the Ministry of Children and Family Development, the Ministry of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation, the Ministry of Justice, as well as B.C. Housing, to identify and address the funding gaps within our current intervention landscape.

We’re confident that this approach will provide not just this community with the best tools, moving forward, but across the province as well.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you for your presentation. Okay. I’ll go to the committee, if they have any questions.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you, Don. I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the work that is done by your organization in the community. You’ve shown it in the presentation — the fact that you’ve done the hard work around the statistics, the hard work around the numbers, and brought that forward and shown the difference that can be made. Housing First, I think, has been important to the work that’s happened and, hopefully, is important to the work that will happen in providing support for the individuals that you’re talking about.

S. Chandra Herbert: I’m just curious. Very good statistics. I’ve certainly seen a number of reports on the cost of homelessness being higher than the cost of solving it.

In the greater Victoria area, have you looked at the numbers of what you think it would take to really make a big dent to end homelessness here? Budget figures? I hesitate to ask the question, because I don’t think you can solve homelessness in one jurisdiction alone. Certainly, we’ve seen that in Vancouver.

D. Elliott: We haven’t looked provincewide. For this region, specifically, for this cohort that we have identified as experiencing chronic homelessness, what we estimate would be a capital cost of approximately $24 million. That’s for 185 units of housing, in addition to a little over $600,000 per year in rental supplements and then about $7.1 million per year in a combination of social and clinical support services.

That’s what we estimate would be the cost to end chronic homelessness within this region. It amounts to approximately $21,000 per individual, per year.

S. Chandra Herbert: I guess it’s unfair to ask you the cost without asking you the savings, because certainly we know that if you get people off the street, their health improves and so on. We can fixate on the cost. But do you have a sense of what that would do in terms of savings to other areas?

D. Elliott: When we discuss savings, for us as an organization…. For example, you create a team to support individuals experiencing chronic homelessness. There’s a significant reduction in the amount of hospital use for
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those individuals. Well, that doesn’t mean that you fire nurses or fire doctors. It’s efficiencies gained through the system that we’re focusing on.

As far as a cost benefit, we haven’t looked at that. That’s a very dangerous position for what we’re talking about. What we’re talking about is supporting individuals in a way that will enhance efficiencies across a broad spectrum of use groups. That would include criminal justice. That would include health and others, but not necessarily in terms of realized cost savings. It would be efficiencies.

S. Chandra Herbert: I completely understand why you would take that view. I think it is helpful, though, to have a sense of what those numbers are, because those are resources that are saved that you can put into…. Maybe it’s another nurse that can look after the sick kid. Maybe it’s another justice officer to do something else elsewhere. Otherwise, if you just look at the costs, it looks like a lot of money when you’re not thinking about the savings as well.

S. Gibson: Good information. Thank you for distributing it and being here today.

My question is…. I don’t want to sound uncaring, and I know you won’t perceive that, but are you finding that people are coming to Victoria from other areas because of the attractive location and the moderate climate and that once they get here, they find there are social problems — i.e., there’s unemployment here and some challenges with housing, as you’ve stated? Are you in a position to counsel people, to say: “You know what? You may need to go to another community”?

Again, I don’t want to sound callous. But I’m just wondering: is that a part of the paradigm? There are places in our province where there’s all kinds of housing for very low cost. Up north and more jobs up there as well, more opportunity. Do you have any reaction to that?

D. Elliott: This may sound counterintuitive. We have absolutely no evidence to suggest that there are floods of individuals coming from across the country because of our climate.

The vast majority of individuals experiencing homelessness in this region are from this region. Some are from northern Vancouver Island. There are some from other areas, certainly, but not significantly disproportionate to the population at large.

We will be conducting a point-in-time count in February of 2016 that will ask very specifically for information on point of origin so we can, then, highlight again that most of the individuals we’re looking to support are local individuals.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Claire, could I get you to ask your question, and Mr. Elliott can take it on notice and get back to the committee. We’ve run out of time.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for the work that you do. I’ve got to preface this. Just walking in today, I’m continually horrified by the fact that you see homelessness in such a rich place. There are people by the lake in Beacon Hill Park sleeping on a tarp, in sleeping bags. That we’ve become accustomed to having tents in our parks, I think, is a disgrace to all of us.

My specific question is very easy, I should imagine. The Streets to Home and the project that you’re looking at: are they the same or are they different? If they’re different, how much, financially, has gone into Streets to Home to make it the success that it is, compared to the ask for the longer-term project?

D. Elliott: They’re very related. The types of initiatives we’re talking about are through programs like Streets to Home — expanding what we already do well and at the same time providing more options to individuals.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, Mr. Elliott, for coming forward and presenting to the committee. It was very informative. We appreciate your time. Have a good day.

Finally, on the line we have Margaret Warcup and Rob Goffinet from Kitimat Child Development Centre and Kitimat Health Advocacy Group, respectively.

Welcome. Just to let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you with about two minutes remaining so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we can go to the committee for questions. The floor is yours.

M. Warcup: Okay, that’s perfect. I did submit a written statement of what I was saying. I’m going to summarize it so it gives time to have questions and dialogue on the points that I’ve put forward.

I initially want to thank you for hearing from us again and to say you’ve heard from us before in this committee process and we were encouraged by your report to the finance people recommending some of our recommendations. They haven’t come true yet, though, so we’re still struggling.

The Child Development Centre, as you know, is a multiservice non-profit agency. We serve people from birth to passing, including some of the homelessness links that you were just talking about. Because of the needs in our community, we’ve had to evolve. We’ve also had to evolve because we started with a focus on early child development and the services for children with special needs, and to be sustainable, we need to be a multiservice agency. The funding is not there from MCFD to be able to cover the costs effectively and accountably to serve children with special needs.

We’re advocating again that we need to be putting moneys into both those staff and operational costs. We do support the direction the ministries are doing, Ministry of Education and Ministry of Children and Family Development, in terms of moving to early-years centres. We are an early-years centre, and we look forward to that initiative, by both policy and funding being able to help us address the needs of the children and the families that we’re serving that way. So we will actively work with that.

We have some very strong concerns about the way MCFD is doing their budget in terms of the ratio that they’re doing to cover staff costs. We’re a non-union centre, but we have to be competitive. We’re in a community that is struggling with housing, with cost of living, etc., so to attract qualified staff, we need to have adequate funding for those staff positions to be filled.

The ratio that they proposed in the ministry financing of 80 percent last year, we now hear, is going down to 77 percent to cover staff costs of the amount. It means that we will have to reduce services next year. We did, after extensive work, receive some one-time-only funding to continue this year, but there are no moneys in these contracts for us to continue to do that extensive work of applying and going back and forth on amounts to be able to sustain our services. It’s becoming a wall that we’re hitting where we just can’t keep up anymore that way.

We are concerned also about the individual funding for autism and how that is diagnosis-driven. It is breaking some of our funding abilities. It’s a never-ending pot of access for those children who are diagnosed with autism, who need services. But there are many other children with special needs or developmental disabilities that are not getting the equivalent types of services or funding.

Individual funding is also pushing a lot of the non-profits to have a really hard time finding qualified staff. Qualified staff are going into independent practice, and we’re concerned about how, by policy, that’s going to be monitored and be accountable so that the children are actually receiving the quality services they need.

Lastly, I wanted to say that we’re struggling very much in terms of affordable daycare and preschools. We know that this links directly to having employees in our community. I have staff, personally, at the child development centre who cannot return from maternity leave because there’s no daycare, and we run the daycares. It’s a real problem. We know from the chamber of commerce and our involvement in social planning in Kitimat that there are businesses that have chosen to fly in and fly out their employees because to move into Kitimat is a barrier for their families to access child care.

On balance, I think that we need to encourage, or we want to encourage…. Economic boom, job creation, etc. and investment have to be balanced with investment by the province in protecting the social health and education fabric of our community.

R. Goffinet: My name is Rob Goffinet. Although I am a member of the city council in Kitimat, I’m speaking today as a director of Kitimat Health Advocacy Group, which is a committee of council and of the community. I appreciate the fact that I’m speaking to both sides of the House, and I really appreciate the work your committee does. I respect you.

Kitimat really is the centre of all the attention in the province. One thing that you’ve got to understand is that Kitimat, like other communities in the north, is expectant, is positive for economic development. There is social licence. You’ve got it at the moment in places like Kitimat. I’m prefacing this…. My remarks will be: how do we keep it?

We appreciate the positives of industry, but in a little town in the north, the stressors of megaprojects and the boom-and-bust cycle are really quite dynamic and hurtful. But we’re willing to accept it.

Everything I’m saying is coming out of four years with the Rio Tinto smelter. We have had a test of our community for the last four years. We have endured it. We have grown because of it, and it has been a positive step.

We are in support of the budget of Northern Health. We respect the committee work they have done with the proponent on the RTA smelter — and now the LNG proponents that are assembling, hopefully next year, to proceed with a final investment decision.

Northern Health has done yeoman service in getting all of the camps, all of the proponents mitigating all the health indicators — the effects, positive and negative, on Kitimat. We’re very, very appreciative. Northern Health is an asset. Their budget cannot be cut.

What are the stressors in a place like Kitimat that wants to accept this stress of development? We need alcohol and addictions and mental health workers. We just don’t talk about wanting them. We have plans in place to not only help recruiting but retaining these people when they come here.

We rental-subsidy targeted individuals that are an asset to our community and to the hospital. We put money out every month in rental subsidies. We would advocate that any rental-subsidy component of the provincial housing ministry be supported — it does wonderful work in Kitimat — and we top them up.

Specialty services. The community must have simple services, like ultrasound, that anchors obstetrics, which of course the young demographic in town really needs. If we lose it, we lose social licence of young people. Oncology and chemo. That must be as a specialty service in a town like Kitimat. Our senior demographic is increasing.

If you can, in the health budget, oncology and chemo and specialty services for Northern Health must be supported. We give rental subsidies for ultrasound techs, the
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oncology and chemotherapy nurses. Basically, Kitimat is standing behind Northern Health, and we’re trying to mitigate the effects.

In the community housing, we are totally in support of the short-term, focused and targeted rental subsidies that B.C. Housing has implemented in Kitimat. We just need more of them.

The targeted funds for our emergency cold-weather shelter. We believe it’s forthcoming. This is a godsend in our community — a simple, cold-weather emergency shelter for the most vulnerable. For the first time in Kitimat, we need it.

All of my comments are…. You’ve got social licence. The people want to assume greater and greater responsibility for industrial expansion, but if we lose simple services in a local hospital, the community very quickly loses faith and you can lose social licence. The community needlessly hurts while really desiring to assume responsibility for industrial expansion.

Those are my feelings. I really appreciate just talking with you, because I know you understand, even though you don’t live here, that we’re going through a dynamic and exciting time. What we want is to come out of it with a positive community for the future. So I really appreciate being able to talk to you. Thanks.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you for the presentation. We have a couple of minutes left for questions, so I can go to the committee.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you, Margaret, and thank you, Rob, for your presentation.

I think you’ve identified well something we heard last year as a committee and we’re hearing again this year, which is the preparations that are needed when economic growth is occurring in regions — the prep work that has to be done, the pre-emptive work that needs to be done.

I’m interested in your health success, as you describe it, because I think it’s important for us also to take a look at the pluses that work. You mentioned that there was good consultation done through Northern Health. I wondered if you have any further information, if you could send it along, around the kind of pre-work they did with Rio Tinto around the expansion and making sure those camps were included, making sure that the groundwork was done for health. It’d be helpful for us to have that.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just as a reminder, we need to receive that information before October 15.

G. Heyman: Thank you, Margaret and Rob. Good to hear from you again. Thanks, as Carole has said, for pointing out the necessity for small communities in the north to be able to adapt to growth in the economy and influxes of people and increased demand on services. I spent a number of years in Terrace and watched the impacts on the city in both the upside of the economy and the downside.

I want to particularly ask, with respect to the strains on health services that you referenced and the need for more rental housing, if you have any anecdotal evidence or studies that actually indicate problems with recruiting or retaining skilled workers in the area when there isn’t enough housing or when the services that they might want for their families are lacking.

M. Warcup: I can provide you some from the child development centre, where we’re trying to recruit an occupational therapist and a speech therapist. Housing has been a barrier. We also took on the housing subsidy contract because, in our community, this need was desperate. That’s not a traditional child development centre service, but we could not get staff unless we figured out some sort of housing subsidy.

We also operate the extreme weather shelter, which was totally a new book for us to be looking at because of the needs that were driven in the community. We can send more information if you want that, yeah.

R. Goffinet: George, Kitimat Health Advocacy. We’ve been subsidizing specific specialty positions in the Kitimat General Hospital for up to seven years. There was a problem before the boom. The boom accentuated it. But we’ve held on to ultrasound, which anchors our two operating rooms, and obstetrics, and we subsidize training for nurses to become specialized in somewhat like oncology or chemotherapy. So far it’s worked.

M. Warcup: And we’re subsidizing right now, trying to figure out subsidizing for early childhood educators, because we are desperate in our community. We can’t provide daycare with licensed staff.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, thank you very much for taking the time to present to the committee. Also, thank you for the work you do on behalf of your community. Enjoy the rest of your day.

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10) Dawson Creek Literacy Now	Michele Mobley
11) Northwest Community College	David Try
12) Coastal Invasive Species Committee	Rachelle McElroy
13) Greater Victoria Coalition to End Homelessness	Don Elliott
14) Kitimat Child Development Centre; Kitimat Health Advocacy Committee	Margaret Warcup
	Rob Goffinet

Chair:	Wm. Scott Hamilton (Delta North BC Liberal)
Deputy Chair:	Carole James (Victoria–Beacon Hill NDP)
Members:	Dan Ashton (Penticton BC Liberal)
	Spencer Chandra Herbert (Vancouver–West End NDP)
	Eric Foster (Vernon-Monashee BC Liberal)
	Simon Gibson (Abbotsford-Mission BC Liberal)
	George Heyman (Vancouver-Fairview NDP)
	Mike Morris (Prince George–Mackenzie BC Liberal)
	Claire Trevena (North Island NDP)
	John Yap (Richmond-Steveston BC Liberal)
Clerk:	Susan Sourial

3) Mary Miller
4) Altentech Power Inc.; SMG Wood Pellet Inc.; Torrefusion Technologies Inc.; FMI Bioenergy Ltd.	Paul Adams
	Larry Taylor

9) Northwest Community College Students’ Union	Madeline Keller-Macleod
	Reilly Walker

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES