Finance and Government Services — Issue No. 76 — Tuesday, September 29, 2015 (HTML)

Present: Wm. Scott Hamilton, MLA (Chair); Carole James, MLA (Deputy Chair); Dan Ashton, MLA; Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA; Eric Foster, MLA; Simon Gibson, MLA; George Heyman, MLA; Mike Morris, MLA; Claire Trevena, MLA

3. The following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions:

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES


CONTENTS
Page
Presentations	1803
C. Ray
L. Wendling
C. Pohl
B. Quinn
B. Hooker
T. Cable
B. Wiebe
A. Reed
B. Harris
B. Miller
S. Tower
C. Norton
P. Davidson
S. Ramsay
M. Davis
M. Spagrud
M. Sutter
A. Pousette
D. Bird
T. Fedorkiw
H. Crowley
E. MacRitchie
T. Hoffman
H. Reiser
J. Alderliesten

S. Hamilton (Chair): Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Scott Hamilton. I’m the MLA for Delta North and Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services. We’re an all-party parliamentary committee of the Legislative Assembly with a mandate to hold provincewide public consultations on the next provincial budget.

The consultations are based on the budget consultation paper that was recently released by the Minister of Finance. The committee will issue a report by November 15, 2015, with recommendations for next year’s budget.

We’ve had to modify our planned schedule of in-person community meetings this year as the Legislature has been called back for a fall session, which began yesterday, in fact — September 28. In order to accommodate as many presenters as possible, we are holding public hearings in communities across the province through in-person sessions or via teleconference, video conference or Skype.

British Columbians are also invited to participate by sending in a written, audio or video submission or completing an on-line survey. You can make a submission or learn more about the consultation in general by visiting our website at www.leg.bc.ca/budgetconsultations. We invite all British Columbians to make a submission and contribute to this important process. For those of you in attendance today, thank you for taking the time to participate.

All public input will be carefully considered by the committee as it prepares its final report to the Legislative Assembly. Just as a reminder, the deadline for submissions is Thursday, October 15, 2015.

Today’s meeting will consist of presentations from registered witnesses. Each presenter will have ten minutes to speak, followed by five minutes for questions from the committee.

Today’s meeting is being recorded and transcribed by Hansard Services. A complete transcript of the proceedings will be posted to the committee’s website. All of the meetings are also broadcast as live audio via our website.

Now I’ll start by asking the members of the committee to introduce themselves.

S. Gibson: Good afternoon. I’m Simon Gibson, MLA for Abbotsford-Mission riding.

S. Chandra Herbert: Hello. Spencer Chandra Herbert, MLA for Vancouver–West End, Coal Harbour.

C. Trevena: Good Afternoon. I’m Claire Trevena. I’m the MLA for North Island.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Absent at the moment but joining us shortly are Eric Foster, MLA for Vernon-Monashee, and Dan Ashton, MLA for Penticton.

Also assisting the committee today are Susan Sourial, to my left, and Lisa Hill and Stephanie Raymond from the Parliamentary Committees Office. From Hansard Services — we have them recording our proceedings today: Mike Baer and Alexa Hursey. Doing our Skype technician work is Rob Froese.

Without further ado, I will go to our friends who have been sitting in Prince George and waiting patiently. I’ll start with the Prince George Chamber of Commerce. We have Cindi Pohl, Lorna Wendling, Bill Quinn and Christie Ray.

As I mentioned, ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll try to signal you and get your attention with a couple of minutes to go so you can conclude your thoughts. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions. So the floor is yours.

C. Ray: Okay. I’m Christie Ray. I’m the CEO of the Prince George Chamber of Commerce.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you. If I could get everyone to introduce themselves so we know who’s speaking for Hansard purposes.

L. Wendling: Hello. My name is Lorna Wendling. I’m vice-president of the Prince George Chamber of Commerce, and I’m a chartered accountant with Deloitte.

C. Pohl: Hi. I’m Cindi Pohl. I’m the president of the Prince George Chamber of Commerce and an account manager with Waste Management.

B. Quinn: I’m Bill Quinn, vice-president of the chamber and president of NuStride Executive Coaching.

C. Pohl: Several examples of investments and successes realized over the past year by B.C. government are
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noted in the package presented. We would like to start by mentioning that we, on behalf of the members of the Prince George Chamber of Commerce, are aware of and highly appreciate these investments.

We believe that the current global circumstances require cautious allocation of the fiscal resources of the province. Despite B.C. now having a balanced budget and predicting a continuation of that over the next few years, there’s uncertainty surrounding industries that are key to growth in the B.C. economy. Examples are LNG, mining and forestry.

Equally important to note is that strategic new investments should be made that can maintain momentum towards a sustainable, knowledge-based resource economy connected to the world.

The Prince George Chamber of Commerce believes that investments in the future of the region and the province are best guided by core principles, rather than another wish list of expenditures. Also, the business community in Prince George sees a complementary connection between the economic bottom line and the social and environmental bottom lines.

In the context of the above two observations, the Prince George Chamber of Commerce offers the following principles and examples in no particular order as its advice to the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services.

L. Wendling: The five recommended principles are as follows. Principle 1: community sustainability and business stability require economic diversification around our areas of strength. Principle 2: we need to support business through effective infrastructure and workforce, both locally and regionally.

Principle 3 is that education and skills development in Prince George and the region are key foundations for this success. Principle 4: healthy communities are necessary for healthy businesses. And Principle 5: we need to proceed with efficient settlement of land claims in a fair, just manner.

C. Pohl: In conclusion, as we sit on the cusp of significant development in northern B.C., a continued strong focus on sustainable investment climate is required. As such, we feel implementation of our proposed principles will aid in the continued development of the region.

We applaud the time you put into this consultative process and ask that you consider the five basic principles that we’ve outlined for you today as you move forward in developing your budget for 2016. Thank you and good luck in your endeavours.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, if you’ve concluded your presentation, we can certainly go to the committee for questions. So I’ll start.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your very succinct presentation and the formulating around core principles. It’s a very interesting way of approach rather than direct asks.

I’m interested in your principal 2 about supporting the effective infrastructure, particularly the infrastructure side of it. Not the workforce side, although that is equally important.

You make mention of the ten-year transportation plan and how it’s been positive, but do say that there are specific improvements not identified in the plan. I’m wondering if you could say what the gaps are that you see for the north in transportation infrastructure.

C. Ray: Thank you for the question. The Prince George Chamber of Commerce put forth a resolution in partnership with several other local chambers in northern B.C., including Dawson Creek, Fort St. John, Houston and district, Quesnel and Williams Lake. We had submitted this resolution to the B.C. Chamber of Commerce, so I do believe you have a copy of it, although we, of course, would be quite happy to send it your way. It does state a bunch of specific scenarios that we feel need to be addressed. If you’d like, I can go into a few of them now, or I can send it through to you — whatever you’d like.

C. Trevena: If we’ve got a moment and we have time, yes, it would be great if you could clarify.

C. Ray: Sure. There were six specific recommendations. I’ll just read a few of them out to you.

The first one reads: “Within the stated priority to improve the safety and reduce traffic congestion in Quesnel, within the work to be undertaken on Highway 97–Cariboo connector, undertake the construction of a truck route and bridge improvements in Quesnel to move dangerous goods out of the downtown core and to shorten travel time for long-haul loads and log haulers.”

The second one. “Similar to the stated priority of improving safety and reducing congestion in communities for Cache Creek and Quesnel, but not identified in the plan, undertake the rerouting of Highway 16 to the south of Prince George city proper so that this heavily travelled commercial and dangerous goods route no longer bisects the downtown of a major city, and provide the same improvements to safety and congestion in Prince George, as are planned for Cache Creek and Quesnel.”

The third one. “Within the stated goal of initiating planning for future projects on the Cariboo connector after completion of the remaining phase 2 projects, determine a timeline and commit budget for the four-lane expansion of the remainder of the connector by 2025.”

No. 4. “Within the stated priority to upgrade and replace structures, such as bridges and overpasses, to accommodate industry needs, embark on technical and
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safety improvements to Highway 97 from Quesnel to Dawson Creek, which will enable 5.3-metre, 18-foot-high clearances for transporting large manufactured equipment between central and northeast B.C.”

There are two more. “Within the stated plan of adding seven new passing lanes on Highways 16 and 37 in the northwest, ensure that at least two such lanes are placed between Prince George and Vanderhoof, and further, determine a timeline and commit budget to complete a four-lane expansion for Highway 16 between Prince George and Vanderhoof by 2025.”

The last one. “Within the stated implementation of road safety improvement program, conduct a needs assessment of the Cariboo connector and Highway 16 to identify high-priority areas for the installation or alteration of median, guard rail and wildlife barriers to improve highway safety and access for emergency vehicles.”

S. Hamilton (Chair): Could I just add, before I go to Carole, that’s a list that we’re not privy to here. If it’s something that could form part of the public record, you’re welcome to submit it before October 15, and we can review that as well.

C. James (Deputy Chair): I’ll echo Claire’s comments about the principles. I think it’s an interesting approach to a presentation, and I appreciate it. I think they’re strong principles for economic growth.

I wondered. Just two specific questions. One is around the education and skills development area. You mentioned some particular fields that you feel could use some strength and some additional supports in the north. I wonder whether that would be in the way of additional training spaces at the college and university — whether you’ve looked specifically at where you could see some of those resources going.

The second question was around principle 4, the one around health. You mentioned doctors and mental health. I wondered if those are your priority areas in health or whether there are other areas that you feel, again, need more infrastructure or more resources.

C. Ray: Well, I’ll take the first part of that question again, as it relates to another resolution as the one I just read out that was submitted by our chamber to the B.C. chamber. I will also send that forward to you guys after you do this work. To think about it in a bit of a nutshell so I can explain it to you quickly, a lot of research has been done — and I’ll give you detail in the document that I provide — to indicate that the areas surrounding technology or technical skill sets, specifically engineering, do need attention, and they need attention in northern B.C., where this work is going to be done. It’s really, really disconcerting.

There are a lot of stats that back up the fact that people who are trained in the north do actually stay in the north. And the fact that these projects are going to happen in this region…. We feel that’s very, very important that this attention is paid to educational institutions in this particular region to address those needs.

Some of the work that the province has been part of in the past has gone a long way to start addressing these, like the masters program at UNBC in wood engineering. Excellent start, but it really does need to be backed up by some undergraduate engineering-related programing and technical-related programming at community colleges as well.

I think at this point, maybe we’ll leave it there and send this through to you guys to use. It would be wonderful to know that your eyes are seeing some of this information, and hopefully, it will be of use.

L. Wendling: I can address the health care issue. It’s still a major cause of concern in Prince George in terms of the number of people who do not have access to family doctors, and that is amplified even more so when you get into some of the smaller regional communities surrounding Prince George.

There is also a lack of mental health care in this community. We have a significant homeless population here, and they’re not able to access some of those services as easily as they may, and mental health care, in particular, is a challenge, as well as addiction care.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. Before I go to Simon, I’ll let you know that the two gentlemen I introduced earlier have now joined us — both Eric Foster and Dan Ashton.

S. Gibson: I think, to some extent, Carole engaged the topic that I was going to speak to regarding recruitment and retention, which came up tangentially in the conversation right now. Having been to Prince George a number of times and up north, my understanding is that the challenge is you can recruit people for positions, but if they’re from outside, if they’re from the south greater Vancouver area, they tend not to stay and, unfortunately, leave, but the people that you recruit from the north tend to stay there.

Are there ways that we can help somehow or address that situation? You do speak to that a bit under principle 2.

C. Ray: You know, that’s a wonderful question. If we had an exact answer to that, we would have a lot less of a problem. It’s something that a lot of community organizations are dealing with and are working on.

I don’t think it’s necessarily true that every single person who is from the Lower Mainland will leave Prince
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George when they move here, but I think that a lot of work can be done in ensuring they know exactly, really, what they’re coming to and it aligns well with their values. I think that will increase those retention rates that are so important.

But a lot of work has already been started and can continue to be done if the funding is there and available to continue the work to find labour pools — pockets of people who will be a good fit with our community, who are used to the climate, who will embrace the smaller community and what there is to offer here.

I think it really comes down to funding for programs for community organizations on the ground to work together.

S. Gibson: Well, I think one thing I would say is that Prince George is a friendly community. I have certainly experienced that. For folks that are arriving in a new community, the friendlier, the more welcoming it is, I believe. And you would agree with this. The likelihood of people staying much longer, even for the rest of their lives, is increased dramatically. I think, especially in the north, that people are, frankly, more friendly than they are often in the south. So way to go.

M. Morris: I’ll be relatively quick. A good document you’ve got here, and it has led me to a lot of thoughts. I think we need to sit down and have some discussions, whenever I can hang my hat up there long enough to do that. I like your principles here. We’re going to explore them a little bit more.

I’m just surprised that Simon never stayed in Prince George. You know, he likes it up there. He has been up there a couple of times. I’m wondering why he didn’t stay up there.

M. Morris: So good work, guys. I would like to sit down with Christie and your board up there and talk some more on this when I can.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just to conclude, I have a brother who moved up there and never looked back. His family is living with him now, and yeah, it’s all working out well.

Well, I’d like to take the opportunity to thank you for appearing in front of the committee. It’s great information. Always good to hear from the chambers around the province. Best of luck, and thank you for the work that you do on behalf of the chamber and on behalf of the city of Prince George and the surrounding areas. Have a good day.

In the room, I’m hoping there may be a lady by the name of Brenda Hooker with the board of education, school district 57.

Welcome. While you’re getting settled, I’ll let you know we’re going to have ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll try to get your attention with two minutes left so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we’ll go to the committee for about five minutes worth of questions, if that works for you.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just as we’re getting started, if I could get everyone to introduce themselves for the record so we know who’s speaking at what time.

B. Hooker: I’m Brenda Hooker. I am the vice-chair of our school district 57, board of education.

A. Reed: I’m Allan Reed, and I’m the secretary-treasurer for school district 57.

S. Hamilton (Chair): So as we’re looking at you, we have Bruce on the right, Brenda, Allan, Tony and….

All right. We’ll try to keep everything in order. So, again, ten minutes for your commentary, and the floor is yours.

B. Hooker: Thank you so much. We really appreciate the opportunity to make a presentation to the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services on behalf of our 12,700 students and 1,355 employees.

We provided a written submission which gave a current overview of our school district and identified three complex issues of concern to our board. We concluded with some recommendations that we’re very hopeful the committee will consider. We strongly supported the 2014 recommendations made by the select standing committee to the Legislature regarding K-to-12 education and are very concerned that the 2015 budget did not seem to adequately address those recommendations.

The intention of our presentation today is to provide further evidence and demonstrate the continued need for
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the Legislative Assembly to make K-to-12 sector recommendations a priority for budget allocations.

In coming before you today, we fully understand the Ministry of Education’s ministerial mandate letter and the direction set by the B.C. education plan. We feel that our recommendations today must be addressed if we’re successfully to support these goals for the government of British Columbia.

The challenges that we want to touch on today are rural and urban complexities, vulnerable students, sustainable budgets, administrative savings and exempt compensation. Our district is committed to providing learning that enriches the life of each student. Meeting this commitment is becoming increasingly difficult within this per-student funding model and declining populations, and these challenges must be considered within our school district context.

SD 57 operates within the traditional territory of three First Nations, covers 52,000 square kilometres, is in the centre of our province and encompasses a large urban centre and three smaller rural communities of varying size. We operate 31 elementary schools, eight secondary schools and a multi-use facility for additional education programs. Our annual operating budget is $125.9 million.

In regards to rural-urban complexities, 7.4 percent of our students live in outlying rural communities comprised of McBride, Valemount and Mackenzie. Our rural schools provide crucial infrastructure to these communities beyond simply the education of their students, and the importance of the community aspect use of our schools cannot be overstated.

Recruiting and retaining residents in rural communities depends on basic infrastructure like quality public education and health care. Our rural farming and resource extraction communities contribute far more to the B.C. economy than their population base indicates, yet declining populations put these economic contributions at risk going forward.

All of these rural communities expect the board of education to retain and maintain their schools, given the importance to the economic and social viability of their communities. In meeting these demands, the board of education acknowledges the Ministry of Education capacity standards. However, it remains firm in our belief that all students in Mackenzie, McBride and Valemount should be able to access K-to-12 education in their home community, no matter the capacity targets.

In our ’15-16 annual budget, the board of education used prior years’ surplus to provide an additional $75,000 to each of our three rural secondary schools to assist them in meeting basic education needs. This is not a sustainable practice, yet the needs continue. Imagine an entire high school with only five staff, 70 students across five grades and the challenge to meet all the required courses to graduate or, perhaps, continue in post-secondary. The result is one teacher delivering 28 different courses in one year, which is definitely unsustainable. Yet each student deserves access to an education program that will help them grow into productive adults.

Our board has several initiatives to recognize the challenge and importance of rural education. Friday’s announcement of a $75 million rural dividend for economic diversification in smaller communities was welcome news, but we ask that the select standing committee also recognize and support the needs of rural education, with corresponding supports for public education. Help us to meet the education needs of rural students, which will in turn contribute to economic diversification and strong communities.

In regards to vulnerable students and families, our school district has a significant segment of its population defined as vulnerable, and our education system is not keeping up with the complexities of today’s students. According to the Ministry of Children and Family Development, six of the 25 most vulnerable schools provincially are in SD 57. The majority of our at-risk students are located in the inner city of Prince George. However, there are vulnerable students in each of our schools, and the number of students in care or on income assistance continues to rise throughout our district.

Our schools are the safest place for these vulnerable students, but public education is increasingly called upon to provide health and welfare services beyond education. These services often involve cooperation and collaboration with other ministries. We wholly support the tripartite initiative between the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Children and Family Development and the Ministry of Health to address child and youth mental health. But as yet, the inter-ministry cooperation doesn’t come with additional funding that is desperately needed in the education sector. For example, our CommunityLINK funding has not increased in a number of years.

SD 57 recognizes the importance of improving the conditions for learning. Through our collaborative efforts, we have identified eight essential practices that support student learning. The most important of these to our vulnerable students are cultural competency for all staff, social-emotional learning, and poverty and student learning.

Our budget process and practices carve out funds to support these initiatives because of their importance. However, the current funding model simply does not provide sufficient funds for these initiatives. One example of a composition challenge is a grades 4 to 5 split classroom, with 30 students, six IEPs and two students reading below a grade 1 level, but no EA, education assistant, because we can’t find one.

Education funding is not keeping up with the complexities of today’s student and the holistic needs for services in the K-to-12 sector, which is required to meet
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basic physical, mental and educational needs of students.

The last complexity we want to talk about is sustainable budgets, administrative savings and exempt compensation.

The development of the school district’s ’15-16 annual budget was again challenging. Initially, the board of education was presented with a draft budget indicating a deficit of $3.3 million. Difficult decisions brought us to a balanced budget, which again required applying surplus dollars to balance. While adopting our ’15-16 budget, trustees again clearly acknowledged that using prior years’ surplus to balance a budget was not a sustainable practice and acknowledged the angst felt by all our stakeholders with our ongoing budget challenges.

We recognize the need to address our structural deficit and are gathering the necessary information and setting a process in place to address that. As always, this board of education is committed to a sustainable budget practice, yet the Ministry of Education implemented a requirement for school districts to achieve administrative savings. On an ongoing basis, the school district is required to find an additional $1.353 million of such savings without impacting classroom instruction.

Our board strongly feels that all budget expenses support student learning and finds it disrespectful to duly elected boards of education to be mandated as areas for cuts. Each school district should be allowed to develop its budget to meet its local needs, particularly as we have always operated within our allocated resources.

A further challenge is the remaining freeze on exempt compensation. There are indications that it could be lifted, but they haven’t had a wage increase since 2009, and we were told that won’t be funded. These are the same folks that supported the system through the strike, yet school boards are going to be very challenged to try and provide an increase. It creates an unequitable situation for some of our employees, and it’s wholly unfair, given the lean nature of school districts’ already lean administrative costs.

Our recommendations are that we remain united in the belief that our single most important challenge is to continue to provide the quality education expected in all our communities.

In rural and urban, we want to support the work of the Ministry of Education’s Technical Review Committee to ensure a revised funding formula that recognizes the importance of maintaining vibrant elementary and secondary schools in rural and remote communities.

We want to encourage the government’s rural advisory council to include in its deliberations public education for rural communities.

We support the Premier’s mandate that the Ministries of Education, Children and Family Development, and Health work together to provide child and youth mental health services and provide appropriate administrative funding for these services.

In regards to sustainable budgets, we hope that they will continue to fully fund all collective agreements and provide funding for provincially mandated inflationary increases such as B.C. Hydro, municipal pension plans and MSP.

We want the removal of the administrative savings mandated, and the related reporting, and allow school districts to determine locally how best to meet the B.C. education’s planned focus on learning within available resources.

Fully fund general wage increases for all exempt staff in accordance with the requirements for the Public Sector Employers Council and with the assistance of BCPSEA.

School district 57 recognizes that there’s only one taxpayer and that all governments have challenges allocating scarce resources. However, good government is about making proper choices for the good of all British Columbians. Please make the K-to-12 sector a priority in this year’s allocations. Investing in our youth will pay untold dividends for future generations of British Columbians.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. You cut about a minute into your question time, but that’s not a problem.

S. Gibson: Thank you for your presentation and for the good work you’re doing for the students in your area. My question relates to a section…. You talk about social-emotional learning, which I’m not clear on particularly. However, my feeling is that wherever families are struggling, students are struggling. In your inner city that you comment on, is it true that the families need guidance and help in order to provide a good home life for students to be motivated and to do well in school?

B. Hooker: Yes. And that’s exactly what the social-emotional learning refers to. It talks about the holistic student and having their physical and mental health needs met as well as the education needs. If the first two aren’t met, then they have difficulty learning and they need stability and support that public education can provide.

That’s a critical piece of being able to support these children and help them thrive.

I’ve got a couple of questions. One is that…. Actually, Carole has asked it at a number of the committees. We’ve heard from a number of school districts, hearing similar stories from a number of the school districts.
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I’m wondering if you’ve got a figure for the cost of the increase in MSP, increase in hydro and so on — what that is actually costing the school district year on year. My second question is…. You didn’t mention it but knowing what’s happening elsewhere in the province, I was wondering, particularly for your rural and more remote students, what you’re doing about school busing and whether you’re having to start considering charging parents for using a school bus.

Off the top, we can’t put a physical number on our budget here. But we can provide that information to the committee about the basic cost and the [audio interrupted] a specific number. But our estimate is that increased costs have given our district a structural deficit that we need to try and address. That’ll have to be addressed through possible school closures, reorganization.

Also, as you mentioned, we are definitely looking at the possibility of having to charge parents for transportation, which again puts a further strain on our [audio interrupted] because those are the students that often need to be bused. They’re already economically struggling. So it’s a catch-22.

M. Morris: Just a very quick one. Great to see everybody. The sound is pretty broken up, so we are getting the majority of your conversation here.

M. Morris: When I get back there and we get the opportunity, I’d like to hear a little bit more about some of the issues there, particularly the integration of services and where that stands right now and how we can perhaps do better there.

I know you said the funding hasn’t come in. There’s been instruction to all the agencies, I’m sure, that we need to work a little bit more collaboratively up there to achieve some different results that we have. I’d like to talk some more about that. But I’m with you. I hear you with respect to what’s going on in Mackenzie and the other rural schools that we have there and some of the issues that we have to deal with in rural education. We’ll see what happens in deliberations.

B. Hooker: We are very concerned about our rural schools. The integration between the three ministries, I think, will provide economies of scale that we can utilize to better provide resources, so I’m really looking forward to that initiative and how that’s going to assist all of us in meeting our mandates.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. That’s a great conversation. Thank you so much for appearing before the committee and giving us your thoughts.

I know Mike will be one of the first ones to follow up with you when he gets back home.

Once again, thank you very much and for the work you do on behalf of the school districts.

B. Hooker: We sincerely appreciate it. And we will provide those additional numbers about the increased costs that we’re facing in a further submission.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Now on the line I believe we have Bill Miller and Sharon Tower of the Omineca Beetle Action Coalition.

I’ll just let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll have to rudely interrupt maybe with a couple minutes left so you can conclude your thoughts. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions.

B. Miller: Thank you for giving us this opportunity. In the week gone by, of course, we did a number of presentations to ministers and whatnot at UBCM. So some of the people in the room will be familiar with this presentation. You also have a paper copy of our proposal and our submission to you.

Basically, what I’m going to cover off…. The coalition has a funding-approved workplan until March 31, 2016. Currently, what we’re asking is that the province support OBAC’s operation for an additional four years, from 2016 to 2020. We’re asking for a grant of $3.75 million, which sort of follows what we were previously working on.

The coalition, essentially, doesn’t want to lose the ten years of work and the collaboration and momentum within our region that we’ve managed to do over those last ten years. We expect by 2020 to have solidified the direction in the post–beetle epidemic world.

Really, when we look at what’s happened with the pine beetle, with the epidemic that’s gone through…. The beetles may be gone, but now the impacts are going to start to happen. The economic analysis Central 1 has done is talking about a net loss of approximately 12,000 direct forestry jobs and up to about 9,500 indirect induced jobs in the B.C. interior through to 2028. The real negative community and economic consequences that are coming from here are…. Our next five years are going to be the real crucial time.

We’ve experienced our first mill closure, which has resulted in some significant regional complexities. We believe that the continuation of the coalition is more essential, even, going forward because of those complexities.

The coalition…. There are over 1,000 hours of volunteer time that is contributed by our member directors who are the mayors and the two RD chairs. We have the support of our 12 member communities and the two RDs.

As well, we recently signed a memorandum of understanding with both Northern Development and the
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North Central Local Government Association. Those two MOUs have already started to show some significant success. We have done some work with NDITto help them meet the challenges of how to access and how to deliver some of their programming. As well, we have partnered with the North Central Local Government Association on a number of different issues across our region to help them have better knowledge and understanding of our communities.

The successes that we’ve got so far…. The Community Development Institute has commented that, to their knowledge, the OBAC blueprint is the only collection of long-term, cross-sectional, sectoral, regional strategies developed to have been actively used for almost ten years. They’re talking about in North America. I think that’s pretty significant.

Fifty percent of our recommendations in the strategy have either been completed or acted upon. In 2014, an update to the strategy’s recommendations has been undertaken.

To date, this year alone, we have leveraged close to $2.5 million from the $190,000 that we’ve spent that was given to us by the government, so we’ve made really effective use of our funding provided.

The coalition has also facilitated resolutions to UBCM and the Federation of Canadian Municipalities regarding the federal government providing additional support to B.C. for the mountain pine beetle epidemic. The resolution on September 12 was passed by the FCM board unanimously, and the resolution was also passed at UBCM.

We really appreciate the province’s collaboration with the coalitions on our rural challenges and hope that we can continue the work that we do with both Minister Thomson and Parliamentary Secretary Donna Barnett.

One of the things that has come out of the past couple of years…. Some of the significant working groups that the province has set out to…. Like the B.C. Timber Sales review and some of the inventory analysis by Albert Nussbaum…. They’ve commented that at our table, they get some of the best and cleanest information out of anything that they’ve gathered, so I think it certainly is also a benefit to the province.

S. Tower: No. I think that you’ve covered it all off very well. But I’m happy to answer any questions.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Fantastic. Well, thank you very much for that, and I will go to the committee for questions.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Thank you for your presentation and your discussion around projects that you funded and the partnerships that you built. I just wondered: in your request to have the funding extended, to look at further years of funding, would you be looking mainly at new projects, carrying on with existing projects or a combination of both? Do you have kind of a map of where you would picture those resources being utilized?

B. Miller: Yeah. We do, actually, for the most part. We did a bit of navel-gazing a couple or three years ago and decided the workplan that we’re working on now, which is a combination. It has a percentage, actually, of projects that we leveraged some funding with that we directly put into our community. But on the other side, it’s on policy work and advice to both government and/or NCLGA or our other partners like NDI.

S. Tower: Sure. We do have a submitted workplan that was included in our submission to Jobs, Tourism and Skills Training. That’s who we report to, to Minister Bond. It’s a detailed part. A lot of that is working in continuation of the strategies and the recommendations that were put.

Some of that work is directed to our communities. Some of the recommendations were directed to the province — some to the federal government, some to organizations. We’re continuing working on that, also being receptive to work with our communities, if they’re bringing things forward — supporting a wildfire symposium that they’re having this month in the regional district of Bulkley-Nechako.

We just approved some collaboration with Fraser Basin Council and the university — those types of things: keeping some monies available to work on those types of projects that come up that meet our recommendations in the strategy, but also moving forward on those things that we have laid out that are things that we can get started as being the catalyst for.

E. Foster: I guess I’m looking for a little clarification when you talk about leveraging money from the feds and other stakeholders. Can you tell me something you’ve done as far as the studies and so on go — sort of a specific project — that you have worked on or are working on? You’re looking for another $4 million. If you could just kind of lay out maybe some of the specifics of what you’ve done.

S. Tower: Sure. I’ll give a couple of examples of recent activities that we’ve worked on. We’ve partnered with tourism associations to develop a northern B.C. mountain bike recreation tourism development strategy. That leveraged funding from both federal tourism dollars, some provincial tourism dollars. As well, funding is put in by the Canadian….

We did something very similar with the aboriginal tourism sector. They had funding that we leveraged — both federal dollars and their dollars and some monies from the local First Nations groups that were within our region. That particular strategy went outside. Those are a couple of tourism examples.

We did partner with the provincial government — most recently, funding for the university and the expansion of their bioenergy community work that they’re doing here. It’s kind of having a model of how to work forward with that. We did some funding with that.

On the agriculture front, we have an initiative called the northern agriculture research initiative. We leverage funding with partners who have applied for funding, so some of that is Community Futures, Western Economic Diversification. Some of it is Growing Forward funding, specifically at that. Also, we have the research that the university is doing, so we’ve put annually about $40,000 in and then have approved two or three research projects. Each of those research projects also then leverages either NSERC funding or similar types of funding like that. It could be also with agriculture funding through the Growing Forward.

S. Tower: Okay. Those types of things are on our webpage, if you’re interested in looking at that.

The question I have just follows on, I think, a bit from Eric’s. Are you working with or are you partnering at all with the Northern Development Trust? You’re obviously working with western economic development and others. The Northern Development Trust got, I think, $100 million from the provincial government to do development work in the north. I’m wondering how that relationship works. I know other trusts of that model are actually putting money back into the communities. I’m wondering if you’re working with them or if you’re partnering with them or how that relationship works.

B. Miller: We have signed a memorandum of understanding with NDIT. That’s one of the collaborations that we’ve done this year that has worked really well. We had worked with them on a number of projects in the past, leveraging funds out of some of their programming. But also, as I mentioned before, one of the things that we’ve been able to do is to help them develop ways to use some of their program funding, most recently with the pine beetle account. That money was not being accessed well, so we did some preliminary work, going to our communities and finding out what the needs were and did some advisory work to their board.

S. Tower: I think that, typically, often some of the assistance that we’ve provided in working with that is some capacity things. Our programming is really focused on what our strategies have recommended, which is in line with economic development that NDI is doing. Their programming is pretty rigid, so sometimes it made it complicated. We did work with their regional directors on those types of things — so leveraging funding from them as well.

How it worked out was that we were usually the first in, which was the communities needing their 20 percent or greater in order to leverage NDI’s fund. Then, as Bill mentioned, providing some recommendations and input into what going forward…. I think there’s about $23 million — probably less because they opened it up a little bit for the pine beetle recovery account. Noting what we are hearing that is really essential, moving forward, we have the strategies and a plan. Are we able to leverage their funding, and, if they’re making programs, actually line up in that a little bit tighter than it has been before?

S. Hamilton (Chair): That’s where we’ll have to end it because our time is up, but I’d like to take the opportunity to thank you for presenting to the committee and look forward to your continued good work.

Next we have, via video conference, the Prince George Mental Health Consumer Council — Sandy Ramsay, Pennie-Lynn Davidson. And we have a third person. We don’t know who that is.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. The way I’m looking at it, on my left is Sandy and then Pennie and then Craig.

All right. Ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a high sign at about two minutes left, so you can wrap up. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours.

The Prince George Mental Health Consumer Council is a group with direct experience in mental health issues. We strive to provide the consumer perspective on promoting positive change in public policy, the mental health system and the community of Prince George.

Mental health issues directly affect one in five British Columbians, making it one of the largest health issues in the province and, correspondingly, an area that consumes a lot of government resources. As a result, we need to ensure that we are making the best possible use of those resources. An equally important need is to ensure that the voices of mental health consumers are being
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heard in their care and that their rights are being respected within the health system, other government programs and the community in general.

It is in this last that we are falling short. Prince George has no independent advocate available to work with people with mental health issues as they navigate through private and government resources, and no one to ensure that their rights are being respected during a time when they may be particularly vulnerable.

A loose patchwork of assistance exists in Prince George, with some agencies having part-time navigators or peer support workers. Mental health navigators can point clients in the right direction regarding services or information, while peer support workers provide personal support to help individuals achieve their goals. While both of these are important roles, the scope of these jobs and, often, direction from their employers prevent workers from advocating in individual situations, leaving mental health consumers on their own.

A further serious complication exists in that nearly all local mental health organizations — including the British Columbia Schizophrenia Society, the Canadian Mental Health Association and even our own council — receive at least some of our funding through the Northern Health Authority, mental health and addiction services, putting them in direct conflict in many advocacy situations. This conflict has created the understandable situation where local agencies will not or cannot supply advocates in situations where the major source of their funding may be in an oppositional position.

In May 2015, the Prince George Mental Health Consumer Council distributed information packages about an independent mental health advocate to more than 30 different potential stakeholders in Prince George. These packages explained the need we saw for an independent advocate and asked for feedback and input. In a group as diverse as the British Columbia Schizophrenia Society, the Northern Health Authority, the Salvation Army and the native friendship centre, we received not a single response. No one is interested in pursuing the idea of a mental health advocate that would be outside of their control. That is the very reason why an independent advocate is so important.

The Prince George area has recently benefited from the adoption of the Car 60 program by our local RCMP. This program, which pairs trained RCMP officers with psychiatric nurses, provides an informed perspective when the police are dealing with individuals with mental health issues. This successful program shows that proactive and knowledgable intervention can save both time and money, while also resulting in a better experience for those with mental health issues.

Unfortunately, not every business or government agency has the opportunity to have a mental health–trained employee available. An advocate can help ensure an appropriate, fair and just resolution in those situations.

We believe that groups will embrace the idea of an independent mental health advocate once they see the results. “Advocate” does not mean “adversary.”

Some areas where an independent advocate would have a large beneficial impact include helping individuals with a mental illness to navigate the provincial disability system, obtain appropriate housing, meet with doctors on mental health care teams or participate in review panel hearings, to name only a few. A knowledgable advocate can help ensure that these interactions are more productive for both mental health consumers and the service providers, reducing frustration and wasted time on both sides.

As well-meaning as professionals can be, there is a strong need for an independent voice who can speak for individuals who may not be able to speak for themselves at that moment. An advocate can also speak for groups of mental health consumers and their families when they are afraid that coming forward themselves will result in prejudiced care.

Let me relate a brief story. Although this particular situation is hypothetical, people working within the mental health field can tell you that it is by no means farfetched or unusual. A young man — let’s call him William — rents a basement apartment. When his landlord finds out that William has schizophrenia, he is evicted.

Having neither money nor family support, William spends several weeks bouncing between friends before he ends up on the street. He tries to keep up with his medications, but it’s difficult now because he doesn’t have a routine and someone stole one of his pill bottles. Before long, William is very ill, and a shopkeeper phones the police out of concern.

William spends a month in the psychiatric ward and then three months in supported housing before he is again able to maintain his own apartment. Sadly, William’s tale is common, but it doesn’t need to be. What if an independent mental health advocate had intervened at the very beginning?

An advocate could have sat down with both William and his landlord to discuss the situation. She could educate the landlord and correct any myths or misconceptions he might have about schizophrenia. She could remind him that William has been a good tenant, and she could point out that it is illegal to evict someone for having a disability. Two hours of her time could prevent a six-month ordeal for William and save the government a bill that reaches well into six figures.

We cannot overstate the need for an independent advocate being made available in Prince George to individuals living with a mental illness. This advocate needs experience in the mental health field, knowledge of existing programming, conflict resolution and mediation training and a passion for preserving the rights of his or her clients. But most importantly, this advocate must exist outside the normal chain of health funding
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in order to do his or her job well, free of the shackles of conflict of interest.

Government services and those that rely on government funding are subject to frequent administrative, personnel and policy changes. A stable, separately-funded advocacy position is needed to help individuals with a mental illness navigate these changes successfully.

An independent advocate will cost money. An annual budget of $200,000 will provide for the salary of an advocate, office costs and a part-time office assistant, as well as travel and training allowances. We firmly believe that that money will be returned through savings in other areas. In addition to the mental and emotional benefits, mental health consumers who are able to have their voices heard and their needs met are much more likely to achieve long-term wellness. This in turn can lead to decreased costs in health care, policing, family services and other areas.

In closing, we urge you to explore further the importance of a full-time dedicated and independent advocate in Prince George. We understand that resources are finite. For that very reason, we must ensure that interactions between people with mental health issues and government, health or private-sector agencies are handled in a knowledgeable, timely and compassionate manner. Advocates can help ensure better care, better health and better outcomes, which is vital in a fiscally and socially responsible society.

We do have questions from the floor, so we’ll go right away and start with Mike.

M. Morris: Good afternoon. Nice to see you, Sandy. Just a couple of questions. Are there any other communities in B.C. that have an advocacy program or an advocate that follows a model that you’re proposing here right now?

M. Morris: Okay. And the $200,000 cost that you’re projecting here…. There’s office accommodation. There are operating costs. Have you factored all of that into that? Do you have accommodation for that position if it was to be approved?

S. Ramsay: Yes, we do. We had help. We went to one of the [audio interrupted] for this. Taking into account for workmen’s compensation, wages, office supplies, etc.

S. Chandra Herbert: Thank you for the suggestion. While my office is not in the same way an independent advocate, as you’re suggesting, we end up having to do much the same with constituents who find themselves lost in the sea of mental health services and finding that there’s sometimes a lack of that — working with landlords and so on. I can understand why you’d make this suggestion, because it’s one we’ve seen a lot of.

I guess I wondered: what are you finding is the response from mental health agencies? I know you mentioned…. Would they consider this? What do they think? Is there resistance to the idea from any mental health agencies in the north — or interest? What kinds of conversations are people having around this idea? Some of the agencies down in Vancouver where I live have advocates of a sort — part way-finder, part advocate for mental health, for homelessness. But they’re not independent. They’re within the organizations.

S. Ramsay: The reason that we’re looking at an independent advocate is because, on the one hand, the service providers talk about having the best interest of consumers in their heart, and I believe they do. But when it comes right down to their programming and feedback for their programming, they can be really quite resistant. Anyone who has actually taken a stand and their program is being funded by, say, Northern Health…. It puts them in a really awkward position. So they give up on the consumer to protect their job and their agency. That is a huge problem.

We did a survey of people who had been on psychiatry, and a lot of them were afraid to fill it out because of going back onto the unit again or back into the service — that they had no one to stand up for them. A lot of people also don’t have their families that can help in this situation.

Another thing is that, a while back, there was a group set up in each one of the communities for consumers and families from Northern Health to help Northern Health look at direction and problem-solving. The goal of this was that each independent community had their council. Then, once a year, they were going to get together and help with planning. Now, they do have the advisory committees going, but they have not had a meeting together. They have not been involved in planning. On the one hand, there is talk about this, but on the other hand, the consumer doesn’t see that it’s actually followed through. This is why an independent advocate would be most helpful. It’s someone that they could go to, that is on their side and not worried about their job or their agency.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you for that. We do appreciate you taking the time to present to the committee, and thank you for the work you do in Prince George on behalf of the people that, obviously, are in desperate need of your services. I appreciate your taking the time. Have a good evening.

As we’re shuffling along, as you’re vacating the seat, I wonder if I can call Maureen Davis of the Canadian Mental Health Association, Prince George branch, to the table.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Not a problem. As you’re getting settled, I’ll just let you know there’s ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll try to get your attention with two minutes left. If I have to rudely interrupt, I apologize in advance. Then we’ll go to the committee for about five minutes for the questions. If you can introduce the young lady that’s with you, I would appreciate it.

M. Davis: I’m the executive director of the Canadian Mental Health Association, Prince George branch. As a branch of a nationwide organization, we’ve been in operation for over 52 years, which is a pretty long time. It’s a substantial time. We’re focused on improving the lives and experiences of all individuals and families living with mental illness and addictions and are committed to mentally healthy people in a healthy society.

We provide services primarily in Prince George, but we also have services that cover the whole of the northern part of the province, which is quite huge.

I want to highlight a really significant growing concern we have at this point. In Prince George, we’re struggling with a growing concern around affordable housing. I believe you were provided with Kitselas’ housing list so you can see a bit about what’s going on here.

It’s making accessing housing incredibly difficult for those individuals and families we serve who happen to be impacted by mental illness and/or addictions. As you know, for those with significant and persistent mental illness, they are among the most vulnerable in our society and the most at risk for ending up homeless, incarcerated, hospitalized or even dead.

The federal government — and I know that this dances between federal, provincial and regional governments — put forward a significant amount of money in research into the Housing First project. That resulted in the necessary proof that we all knew — that providing housing with wraparound supports is indeed successful at reducing homelessness and assisting people in achieving a life that is fulfilling for them. Housing First is the gold standard to move forward with, and that is the direction that we are basically all given direction now to follow.

Unfortunately, the money to actually replicate this process is simply not being provided. In Prince George, we are being asked to provide a housing-first approach with a small amount of money that has been previously provided for several years — just under $300,000 — by the community partners addressing homelessness.

Now, B.C. Housing is a full and active partner in Prince George. We have developers ready to do the building required. We have a city council that is now prepared to give free land and tax breaks and all sorts of incentives for the developers. What we don’t have is the funding to provide the wraparound services that are required for the population that we’re concerned about.

At this time, as you see from the Kitselas list that was given to you, we have 13 available living spaces for individuals living on $375 a month. These are all rooms in someone’s house or in a rooming house. This living arrangement is often unworkable for those with mental illness who may be struggling with anxiety, depression and psychosis and who require, basically, their own space for some true mental health. For those who have disability moneys and who qualify for the housing support, there are exactly two apartments currently available.

Clearly, this is a crisis. In previous years, the available units have been tenfold or more. Now landlords have a great deal of choice. When faced with providing an apartment for someone — for example, a university student or someone working versus an individual living with a mental illness and, possibly, unable to work at this point — the choice is typically clear. Unfortunately, the individual with the mental illness will not be selected.

We have a part-time housing resource individual whose job it is to try and help support individuals in finding housing. Currently, right now, it’s extremely difficult.

In Prince George, our shelters are already filled beyond capacity, and the snow hasn’t even started yet. We’re seeing an influx of people from communities like Prince Rupert and Kitimat who literally have no affordable housing and have been forced out by the process of renovictions. Consequently, we’re seeing more and more homeless on our streets, some of whom were supported by government agencies to come here under the premise that our rentals were more affordable. That’s no longer true.

These are the victims of economic improvements in the resource industry. However, we’re not seeing the funds necessary to support these individuals who will not benefit from the moneys that come from that industry. So we need help, whether it’s support from the provincial government to put pressure on the feds….

At CMHA, we’re more than equipped to provide the wraparound services required for success. B.C. Housing, in this community, is more than prepared to ensure the adequate housing units. They’d be a year down the pipe, but they’re coming. We really need the funds that will allow individuals with limited incomes, particularly those with severe and persistent mental illness and/or addictions, to access safe and affordable homes.

This will in no way come close to the approximately $2,000 a month that it costs this province for shelter beds, $4,000 a month for jail or almost $11,000 a month for a hospital bed. Above all else, it will provide the opportunity for a life well lived and avoid the current costs to our society.
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I want to acknowledge this government. You guys have already done and committed increases in SIL funding that have allowed more individuals to access market value rentals. But that has literally proven to be a drop in the bucket, given what is beginning to happen in our community.

I’ll turn it over to Mary Lu, who is going to talk about some of our other recommendations.

M. Spagrud: We’d just like to add our support to our B.C. division. I believe they have given you five main recommendations that they’ve put forth. We just want to address these in the way in which our region is specifically impacted.

The first recommendation is to match investment dollar for dollar in the area of community-based mental health and substance abuse services, with investments in the areas of acute and tertiary care.

Recently our community has been awarded funds that have resulted in the Car 60 program. As the previous group spoke to you about, it’s a dedicated, integrated case management team, and there’s also now a dedicated psychiatric nurse at our emergency department. This is a wonderful step towards making this recommendation, but it is only the start. It does not address the needs of many remote communities in our area.

The second recommendation is to track subsequent cost avoidance to ensure that savings are reinvested in programs and services which support mental health. The costs of hospitalization, residential treatment and incarcerations are huge in comparison to community interventions.

We all know that the best approach is prevention. Many aspects of mental illness and addictions can be prevented by ensuring reductions in childhood trauma, infant mental health strategies, early identification for psychosis.

In our community, the reverse is actually happening, with early intervention programs cut — particularly apparent in the school districts, who have reduced the majority of their school counselling programs and psychological assessments. We strongly endorse the B4Stage4 recommendation, with investments committed to help prevent mental illness and identify problems early so people can get timely help.

In our community, many of our mental health services are case management only. The caseloads and the needs are far too high to provide therapies that actually can make a difference. This bandage approach might save lives, but it does not provide the skills and assessments and interventions necessary to help people truly regain their full potential.

We support the fourth recommendation of a clear allocation of funding to addictions and substance abuse services and deliver on the promise of adding 500 new addiction care spaces across the province by 2017.

In Prince George and in serving the northern region, it has been wonderful to see the new bed allocation and support to Baldy Hughes. But we would caution the government to remember that more is required, as we have a significant problem with addictions and assessing services in the north.

The fifth recommendation is to increase PWD rates against the cost of living in B.C. We are part of a community committee called Poverty Free Prince George, and we endorse a living wage for all.

We’d also just like to take a moment and talk about education, as it is an important part of prevention. The more we learn about mental health and mental illness, the better equipped we become to promote and maintain good health in ourselves and others. Health education provides individuals with the tools to take better care of themselves healthwise. This means more than physical health, as it includes one’s mental health.

Twenty percent of Canadians will experience a mental illness in their lifetime, one out of three Canadians will experience problems with their mental health, and more than half a million Canadians will miss work this week alone due to their mental illness. It’s why education is important. The fear in education of mental health and illnesses leads to stigma and discrimination. It also reduces the chances that someone will reach out for assistance or someone will recognize the signs and symptoms in a friend, co-worker or family member.

We know that health promotion improves the health status and quality of individuals, families, communities and the country as a whole. We see the education about low-salt, low-fat diets, how much exercise one should have in a day or in a week, deterrents to smoking and many other physical tips.

By focusing on prevention, health promotion reduces the cost, both financial and human, that we all experience and that we would spend on medical treatments. The same is true with mental health. We should be placing the same importance on recognizing the signs and symptoms of mental illness, skills of resiliency and skills for maintaining and accessing the workforce after illness.

Funding and incentives for such training are imperative to the overall wellness of our communities. We need to work towards making mental health education as important as heart health, cancer awareness and the like.

We’d like to take a moment just to say thank you for this opportunity to speak.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much. I appreciate that, and you’re dead on ten minutes. Your timing was impeccable.

Before I go to the committee for questions, can I ask…? At first glance, I was little bit concerned about this housing list that you provided. Secondly, now I’m looking at it, it seems a little more innocuous, and it is available on a public website. Do you mind this forming part of the public record?
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I’ve heard some anecdotal information about the numbers of folks that are migrating to Prince George from northwest B.C., from Kitimat, from Prince Rupert. I’ve heard from various police officers in Prince George that a number of mentally ill and addicted people, which are the most vulnerable in the situation that we see up there, are moving into Prince George. I’ve heard, also, some anecdotal stuff from Northern Health. Do you have any numbers that you can provide us on that?

M. Davis: We don’t at this point. The Community Partners Addressing Homelessness is gathering that information as we speak, though. It should be available in the next month.

M. Spagrud: We did provide some information about a year and a half ago. We also chaired the mental health and policing project committee here in Prince George, and we provided some of the raw data and statistics that helped with the development of the Car 60 program. Those stats that we were able to pull in conjunction with the RCMP were showing the number of interactions that members were experiencing on a regular basis here within the community.

M. Morris: Right, yeah. The Car 60 program — very successful there. I’ve got two sons in uniform in Prince George that rave about it all the time, so that was good to see.

I support the submission that you made here. When you do get the opportunity, if you do get some hard numbers, though, that would really help us in our deliberations.

Thank you very much for taking the time to appear before the committee, and thank you, obviously, for all the good work that you do on behalf of the people that need your services in the area. Have a good evening.

Next, can I please call on Dr. Anne Pousette, from the Promotion of Wellness in Northern B.C. Association.

Dr. Pousette, welcome. While you’re making yourself comfortable, I’ll let you know that you have ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll try to get your attention and, if necessary, rudely interrupt you with about two minutes to go so you can conclude your thoughts. Then I’ll go to the committee for about five minutes’ worth of questions, if that works for you.

M. Sutter: Good evening. Thank you very much for providing this opportunity for us to speak with you about some of the challenges we face and strategies to put northerners on a road to wellness. We are presenting on behalf of Promotion of Wellness in Northern B.C. Association, which we commonly call WINBC.

As you all know, to my left is Dr. Anne Pousette, who is the executive director. Dr. Michael Moran is the president. He sends last-minute regrets from the operating room. I, Michelle Sutter, am one of the directors. Just for a bit of background, I’m also one of the surgeons here in Prince George.

Between the three of us I just named, we collectively represent more than 75 person-years working in health services in northern B.C. We have seen considerable progress: partnerships to train health care providers in the north, the B.C. Cancer Agency Centre for the North, and new health care facilities completed or under construction across northern B.C.

However, looking at the health statistics for the northern region, we continue to see significant health inequality compared to the rest of the province. The reasons are complex and require strategies that are multisectoral, rooted in knowledge of northern communities and funded in a manner that will close the health equity gap.

Today, 89 percent of deaths in Canada are related to chronic disease, with associated decrease in quality of life and impacts on the health care system. Numerous studies have demonstrated the role of prevention. Ninety percent of cardiovascular disease, 90 percent of diabetes and 50 percent of cancers are preventable.

Northern B.C. has more than its share of chronic disease, with accompanying all-cause-mortality and potential-years-of-life-lost statistics demonstrating significant disparity between northern B.C. and the rest of the province.

I direct you to look at the accompanying Northern Health: Health Status at a Glance two-pager. While these numbers were produced in 2012, Northern Health statisticians reviewed current data and said these comparisons are representative. You’ll see that almost all chronic conditions are a significantly greater burden in northern B.C. compared to the rest of the province.

Having set the stage of northern disadvantage, it’s time to look at where the opportunities are to turn this around. WINBC was incorporated as a registered non-profit society in 2013, the result of leadership from the health sector, the post-secondary institutions and the community, responding to the identified opportunity to leverage the 2015 Canada Winter Games platform for a legacy of health and wellness in northern B.C.

The mission of WINBC is to build capacity for wellness through education, research and community development. The capacity to deliver health and wellness in northern B.C. begins with the opportunity for post-secondary education in the health and allied health professions. The need to train health care providers in the north in order to staff the health care system is well recognized, and the northern medical program, nurse practitioners and nursing programs, along with a number of other health science programs, are well established.

With an aging population, more than our share of chronic diseases, including arthritis, and the need to support older adults to maintain health and mobility, a glaring gap in the north is the shortage of physiotherapists. This has been an identified need for a decade, with much discussion. It is now time to move forward with definitive action to address this problem. You’ll hear more from our colleagues from physiotherapy later this evening.

A. Pousette: While we know we need to continue to build capacity in the delivery of health care in the north, we also recognize that chronic disease prevention is key to future health and wellness of citizens and to the viability of our health care system. The evidence for cost-effectiveness and need for population-based approaches and community capacity-building to deliver prevention strategies is well documented.

The provincial health officer’s 2010 report concluded that it’s as improper to withhold effective preventive interventions as it is to withhold effective therapeutic interventions. Prevention takes place over time, requires long-term commitment and resourcing, and must involve multisectoral, collaborative leadership and action.

The relationship of physical activity, inactivity and sedentary behaviour to health has been widely recognized by the academic communities and policy-makers. The World Health Organization identifies physical inactivity as the fourth leading cause of death globally. Now, B.C. historically has invested in this area through ActNow B.C., which was recognized internationally as a best practice for a multisectoral health-in-all-policies approach.

The provincial health authority’s recent document, The Economic Benefits of Risk Factor Reduction in British Columbia, was released in July and provides numbers worthy of our attention. The provincial economic burden attributable to physical inactivity was estimated at $1 billion for 2013. With respect to the prevalence rates for risk factors including obesity, overweight, physical inactivity and tobacco, this report from the Provincial Health Authority notes that the rates were higher than the provincial average in the northwest, the northern Interior and the northeast regions of the province, which of course aligns with the health stats that Dr. Sutter referred to.

Building off the energy and inspiration created through the hosting of the 2015 games, the northern region is ready to move forward building an agenda for physical activity and health that will address risk factors of inactivity and sedentary behaviour. The primary and secondary intervention benefits of physical activity for chronic disease are well documented, and I’ve enclosed in the supporting materials for you an article by UBC’s Dr. Darren Warburton that clearly outlines the benefits.

Round-table cross-sector discussions to mobilize an exercise-as-medicine initiative in the north identified the community as the setting where most physical activity initiatives will occur. Targeted strategies that have inertia to move forward in the north include volunteer-led neighbourhood walking groups for seniors; active transport to school plans; health-related walking groups, such as the diabetes walk and talk program in Prince George; and then the community capacity work that needs to go along with this to support that and to scale it up into all corners of the region.

Our ask is that you consider the significant cost of not addressing the risk factors for chronic disease, the potential gains in health and wellness through preventive strategies, and given the health inequalities in northern B.C. related to chronic disease and our high prevalence of risk factors, that resources to address not only the overall need for chronic disease prevention but also the health gap be made available for multisectoral action.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, thank you. Perfect timing. Actually, you didn’t take up nearly as much time as you could have, but it gives us more time for questions. I’ll go to the committee.

Of course, I’m an advocate for the north and Prince George. We’re only partway up the province here. Northern Health did a study not too long ago on some of the impacts of people migrating into Prince George and some of the health factors that we have in Prince
[ Page 1818 ]
George. Have you guys had access to that information? Is it part of WINBC? Have you considered some of the strategies that they’re looking at as well?

A. Pousette: WINBC is basically working on promotion, helping communities move forward on these initiatives. I’m not sure what document you’re referring to. It’s certainly something we can look at and see if it’s got anything in it that we should be looking at.

M. Morris: Okay. I know there are a lot of people that are trying to work in the same direction here. I applaud WINBC for that. It would be nice to see if we have everybody kind of rowing in the same direction. I think we are, but maybe we have to concentrate on the connectivity a little bit more up there.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just before I go to more questions, could I ask…? Dr. Pousette, early in your presentation you referred to a status document, a two-pager. We haven’t received anything in writing. I’m just wondering. Is there a plan to send it, or have you sent it?

A. Pousette: It has been sent. Yeah. I don’t know if you can see it from here. It’s basically called Northern Health: Status at a Glance.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Okay. All right. We haven’t received it yet, so I’ll ask the Clerk’s office if we don’t receive it in the next day or so or if it is an e-mail in-box somewhere to follow up with you and maybe send it again.

S. Chandra Herbert: Thank you for the presentation, and thank you for discussing prevention and how we focus on those areas as well.

As a committee we get many presentations and much information. I wondered if there is one priority, one thing that you think that we need to remember — or two things; I’ll give you a little room — that we really need to act on specifically that would make the biggest difference, if we were only able to choose one thing to do. What do you think we need to pay attention to?

A. Pousette: I can respond to that. I’ll go with the two things. One would be for the province as a whole, and the other would be looking at the north specifically.

For the province as a whole, I think we need to think long term. Prevention takes time. When we have these short initiatives that go for very short periods of time, we’re not going to win this battle. We need to be building capacity. That’s why we’re really emphasizing knowledge generation for the north, because how we do it is going to be different than how it’s done in the south or in the Kootenays or wherever. It’s all very community-specific.

We need to put money in over time. The short little, quick little bits are really just kind of keeping it on the radar; they’re not moving us forward. So that’s No. 1.

ActNow was a really great start, but it didn’t carry on. We were really on the right track. It’s written up in WHO documents. We’re famous, to be honest. But we didn’t carry on.

In terms of the north, I think it’s really…. The point I was trying to get across there is that our inequalities aren’t getting less. If you don’t invest in closing gaps when you’re looking at inequalities, the inequalities actually get bigger. If you apply the same formula across the province, the gap will just keep getting bigger in the north. It won’t close.

I know that’s hard. I know it’s not how you look at doing business in B.C., but if you look at the data and if you look at the World Health Organization’s recommendations on health inequalities, you will see you have to address preferentially where the gaps are, and then you will get spinoffs going forward where everybody will benefit.

Okay, seeing none, thank you very much for taking the time to present to the committee. Your information is very valuable. We really appreciate your taking the time out to share it with us. Thank you for the good work you do, and have a good evening.

While we’re waiting here, could I ask if David Bird is around the corner — from Integris Credit Union. I can see a red tie.

S. Hamilton (Chair): That’s not what I meant. This is a non-partisan committee, a multiparty committee, so no.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Just to let you know, you have ten minutes to present. I’ll try to get your attention when there’s a couple of minutes left so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions. If you’re ready, the floor is yours.

D. Bird: Thank you very much. As you said, I’m David Bird, Integris Credit Union. I’m the president and CEO there.

First off, thank you for doing this. When we implement something new at our credit union, we always try to get
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the staff involved. I’m here representing the seven credit unions of the north central B.C. We’ve got Bulkley Valley. We’ve got Lake View. We’ve got North Peace. We’ve got Northern Savings, Spruce, Williams Lake and District and, of course, mine — Integris. We operate in the north central B.C., part of a provincewide credit union system of 42 credit unions.

I hope you’re all familiar with the credit union system. We’re member-owned. We’re very cooperative. We really span probably the biggest geographic area in British Columbia. We go from Haida Gwaii to Fort St. John to Prince Rupert down to Clinton, so it’s a pretty big territory.

We provide financial services to over 100,000 members and in some of the most distant and isolated communities in B.C., including five where we’re the only game in town, where we’re the only financial institution. Our Clinton branch is a good example of that, where the bank abandoned them and just left them, so we took over.

Integris was formed by a merger of three credit unions and really established itself as part of the local fabric of the communities in which we serve. It’s very similar to the other credit unions within the north. We were incorporated in 1946, and I think by 1950, we had 100 members. Currently, we’re over 25,000 members. We have 3,000 businesses that deal with us, business accounts and lending, and we have assets probably totalling around $660 million.

Our head office is located in Prince George. We have seven branches, and we also have subsidiaries where we have an insurance arm, general insurance. We have five ICBC offices. We also have a financial planning arm, which serves probably another 20,000.

I really want to be here to say we’re more than just a financial institution. We’re really involved in our communities. We’re committed to the well-being of members, staff and community.

All decisions are made locally. We don’t have to ship it off to Vancouver or Toronto. We live, we work, we play here. We really put that local focus into practice.

An example I have is that there were two local women who had a dream to increase access to local food, offer support within the food system and advocate for local B.C. farmers. Unfortunately, the banks didn’t want to even touch them; they don’t really believe in dreams. But credit unions do.

So Home Sweet Home Grocery was an economic project, an economy-boosting start-up that relied solely on community funds to open up. We did $7,000 in microloans. We did $5,000 from Integris. We did another $3,600 in crowdfunding, crowdsourcing, and then $3,200 in fundraising to start a small business with them. They have now funnelled over $250,000 back into the local B.C. producers, and that’s their first year of business.

Home Sweet Home sources sustainable, organic-grown produce from our B.C. farmers. This is a business that wouldn’t exist without the assistance of the local community support and credit union funding. This is our example, but if you go to the six other credit unions and their communities, there are similar stories.

As well, the $250,000 profits were put back into our local economy. It wouldn’t have happened if we did not help them. They’ve evolved now into an on-line grocery, and I think it’s a good example of our start-ups.

The economic outlook up here. We had a minor recession after the U.S. housing bust. We’ve looked at the cut in lumber. We’ve looked at the wood product demand, whether in China or the United States. The Cariboo economy has been up and down, but I think it’s on the rise. We call it tentative optimism.

Forestry is a general growth sector. It faces supply-side challenges. We’ve got mining. I mean, there’s been some excitement when Mount Milligan started, but then there was a setback with the Mount Polley issue. We really have to look at…. The commodity prices are affecting our region as well.

We see a mild growth in the forestry, though, with the States picking up the way they are. A lot of the mills — we know there are some that have closed, that are inefficient. There are others that are retooled. So I think you’re going to see some changes there.

The mining has all been delayed now, because of commodity prices. We’ve looked at the proposed start of the Williams Lake and Spanish Mountain. That’s probably…. We’ve heard it’s being pushed back. The only offset, I guess, is the low Canadian dollar. That should help demand for manufacturing these exports. But again, it’s all “what if?”

We look at the Alberta situation with oil and gas. Fort St. John — I was chatting with a CEO there today. That end is ready to go, but they’ve got to pipe it across, and that’s not happening right now.

We’re in a region, I think, that’s got this optimism, but we’ve got a lot of influences that are going to affect the region. We look at, as I said earlier, the China market. Whether that picks up or not, we don’t know.

We look at the airport. They finished the warehouse there. It’s going to be a lot of potential, but we’re still waiting. What if?

We’re looking at population growing up here, probably not a huge amount — 1.6 percent a year, maybe. It’s not booming yet, but I think there’s lots of potential.

What we’re here, really, to talk about today is the tax issue. The northern region of B.C. is in for a…. It’s been an uphill battle, actually. Rates are low. We’re resource based. We’ve got small businesses that are ready to go, but it’s all tentative. We’ve got to get job creation going up here. This is where I think credit unions can get involved with small business.

We’re looking at regulatory requirements, shrinking margins. I mean, the rates are still low. We don’t fee people like the banks do. We want to make sure we are
[ Page 1820 ]
very competitive, but we take care of our members.

The scheduled phase-out of the provincial tax rate — they’re talking that it starts in 2016. It’s going to make our job more difficult. We’re grateful that we’ve had this for decades, no doubt about it. We’ve been very appreciative. But the fact remains that if we start doing this, it’s going to affect us. When we look at the northern credit unions, the scheduled tax increases — if they happen — will affect our retained earnings by about $904,000 annually.

Now, we use our retained earnings to fund community programs, charities and bursaries. We funded UNBC, CNC up here. Last year alone we invested 25 percent of our profits back into the communities. That was about $362,000 of our profit going back to programs, bursaries, charities. We did this the previous year. Our budget for 2016 is the same. We have to develop our communities and give back.

When we look at the new tax rate, if it is implemented, it’s going to decrease our loans we make by about $16.5 million, and this is going to small business that creates jobs. So really, that’s what we’re here today to ask for — to make it permanent that we do not have to pay these taxes. We want to support our members, our communities.

I know there are some members on the council…. One of them is my own MLA. You know what we do in the community, and I think this is where we want to continue to get your support to help northern and central British Columbia credit unions create jobs, partner with municipalities and take care of our members.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Well, thank you very much. I can say unequivocally that I don’t think there’s a town that we’ve entertained or a town that we’ve been in that we haven’t had a presentation from a credit union. It’s always good to hear from you. I know you do great work in your community.

Once again, thank you for your presentation — a good uptake on it. I know you have a lot of friends on this committee, for credit unions, so thank you again, sir.

S. Gibson: Thank you, sir, for your presentation. Always good to connect with credit unions. They provide such a populist, you might say, alternative to the banking system. I had the privilege of working for a major credit union for eight years myself, and I appreciated the experience.

What are your feelings about the continuing consolidation of credit unions? When I worked in credit unions over 20 years ago, there were many more credit unions.

It seems, at times, as if the community-based credit unions are being discarded in favour of more large, monolithic credit unions. I wonder what your comments are.

D. Bird: Well, I know that happens a lot in the big city. Working in the credit union in Ontario was the same type of thing. But I find, up here, we’re very distinct and we’re very unique.

What we’ve done as a group is, really, we’ve formed this north line. Where we have credit unions, we work together on different projects. We meet every six months to really go over what’s going on in our communities and how we can help each other. Some of us have joined forces on a banking system.

Rather than merge, there’s a lot more advantage up here to partner and work together on different projects, because of the uniqueness of our communities. We’re very distinct. Whether it’s Prince George, Fort St. John or Prince Rupert, we’re all unique economies. It’s hard to merge one into it, so I don’t think we’re going down that path at all up here.

S. Gibson: Are you in favour of national credit unions? What do you think about national credit unions?

D. Bird: I’m not a big proponent of them, due to the fact that I think we’ll become banks then. I think credit unions have a unique place in this world, and the bigger they get…. I know the ones in Ontario have become banks. The only one in B.C. that still fights to be a credit union is Vancity. They do a great job.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Okay. Seeing no further questions, Mr. Bird, thank you for taking the time to present to the committee. Again, this is a very common theme. We’ve been hearing it around the province, pretty much every time the committee convenes. We appreciate you taking the time, though.

As we’re getting ready, I’ll call Physiotherapists for Northern Communities — Hilary Crowley and Elizabeth MacRitchie. If you could come in and get yourselves settled, I’m just going to take a very short recess while you’re getting ready.
[ Page 1821 ]

S. Hamilton (Chair): Welcome, Hilary Crowley and Elizabeth MacRitchie — physiotherapists from northern British Columbia.

So ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a heads-up with a couple of minutes left, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions.

T. Fedorkiw: We are here today as Physiotherapists for Northern Communities. Our goal is to improve access to rehabilitation services for residents of northern, rural and remote communities in British Columbia.

To address the shortage of physiotherapists in these regions, we recommend that the government of British Columbia fund and increase the number of seats in the UBC master of physical therapy program to 100 and to situate the additional 20 seats in Prince George, at UNBC, like the medical program.

It is well known that individuals living in rural communities have a poorer health status than their urban counterparts. This includes a higher prevalence of the many chronic diseases. Because of these health-related problems and their life-threatening illnesses, our aging population is having increasing difficulty coping with the normal activities of daily living and losing independence.

The Ministry of Health policy framework paper on rural health services in B.C. noted that integrated primary and community care practice is the foundational building block to providing care services in rural and remote areas.

Physiotherapists, regulated health professionals whose practice includes health promotion and disease prevention, are essential members of the integrated primary health care team. With their knowledge, skills and understanding of pathology, they can provide flexible, patient-centred care and are uniquely qualified to screen, assess, diagnose and provide conservative treatment plans. Improved functional outcomes can be achieved for a variety of physical conditions, thereby optimizing functional performance, relieving pain and preventing or limiting physical disability. There is a clear positive relationship between increased physical functioning and improved quality of life.

Physiotherapists respond to the unique needs of patients throughout the lifespan. Increasing mobility and functioning can ensure continuity of care for both them and their families.

We are very aware that the current costs of the health care system are unsustainable, in particular its rates for chronic disease such as diabetes, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, cancer and stroke, and the numbers of our aging population increase. Decreased mobility and loss of independence is costly, yet there is evidence that access to physiotherapy reduces reliance on hospital emergency departments for chronic disease management. It improves patient functional independence and physical performance at a lower cost.

Despite the need for rehabilitation services, there is a shortage of physiotherapists across British Columbia, most notably in northern and rural regions, where only 7 percent of physiotherapists in B.C. work. In 2014, the Physiotherapy Association of B.C. identified 267 physiotherapy vacancies in B.C. in both the public and private sector. Furthermore, the average age of the physiotherapy workforce in northern B.C. is greater than in other regions, if you look at it, meaning that imminently, there will be more vacant physiotherapy positions, and the expertise of these therapists will no longer be available to provide patient treatment or the required clinical teaching to new students. The attrition rate for physiotherapists in B.C. through retirement was 59 in 2014. Families living in rural and First Nations communities in the north are considerably more disadvantaged by lack of access to physiotherapy services.

The map which we have sent you shows the vast area covered by Northern Health, with the number of registered physiotherapists at 86. This equals 2.6 percent of the total workforce and demonstrates a huge discrepancy in availability of physiotherapy services across the province. This also translates to one physiotherapist for 3,600 patients in the north, whereas down south it’s one physiotherapist for 1,200.

The proposed increase in resource development in the north will also exacerbate the need for health professionals. From 2001 to 2010, natural resources from non-urban British Columbia produced 69.7 percent of British Columbia’s manufactured exports annually.

WorkSafe B.C. relies heavily on physiotherapists to rehabilitate the workforce in a timely fashion, minimizing their time off work due to injury.

H. Crowley: Physiotherapy is an integral part of the pediatric rehabilitation team. It’s critical that children with delayed development are assessed and treated as early as possible to open up new neural pathways in the brain to bypass any damaged areas. Early intervention services for vulnerable children funded by the Ministry
[ Page 1822 ]
of Children and Family Development aren’t equally distributed throughout B.C. communities. This leaves a significant gap in physiotherapy services for children with delayed development. Early intervention makes a critical difference in the future of the children’s ability to function and develop life skills.

On the other end of the scale, the B.C. seniors advocate’s April report, Placement, Drugs and Therapy, showed that British Columbia falls far behind other provinces in therapy services available to seniors. The findings in this report highlighted three systemic issues: inappropriate placement in residential care of higher-functioning seniors who could live more independently with changes to home care and assisted living; the overuse of both antipsychotic and antidepressant drugs in residential care; a significant gap in the level of rehab therapists in B.C.

Seniors in B.C. are being placed in residential care prematurely due to mobility issues, with no chance of rehabilitation following a fall, injury or age-related mobility loss.

People with stroke require intensive physio to enhance their recovery and maximize their function. This results in decreased mobility, isolation and premature admittance to residential care.

E. MacRitchie: UBC has the only physical therapy training program in British Columbia and graduates 80 physios annually. UBC has the lowest number of seats to population ratio amongst all of the provinces, and B.C. experiences the worst shortages of physiotherapists across Canada.

In 2011, the provincial government funded the northern and rural cohort at UNBC, which supports 20 of these 80 students to complete their clinical experience in the rural and northern communities. Early results from this group, the first graduating class in 2014, suggests that 45 percent of these graduates are working in rural areas. With UNBC as a partner, the northern rural cohort has demonstrated proof of the concept of academic distribution from UBC. Evidence points to full academic training in the north and rural areas as the most powerful recruitment tool.

The mayors, councils and the MLAs at the North Central Local Government Association conference in May agreed that there was a need for more physiotherapists and that recruitment and retention is more successful when students come from and are trained in rural or northern communities. The Cariboo regional district submitted the following resolution to UBCM on this issue, and it was endorsed at UBCM last week:

“Be it resolved that the UBCM advocate to the Ministry of Advanced Education and the B.C. Treasury Board for the establishment of a physiotherapy program at the University of Northern B.C. to provide for 20 more physiotherapy academic seats.”

The resolutions committee has endorsed several resolutions in the past, asking the province to include access to doctors and other health care professionals in B.C., particularly in rural and remote areas. The need for physiotherapists in British Columbia is supported by the Ministry of Health policy papers.

Again, we ask that the provincial government fund the proposal for 20 more academic physiotherapy seats in British Columbia to be placed in the north at UNBC to address the need of residents living in northern communities.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you very much for a very concise presentation. I will now go to committee for questions.

C. Trevena: Thank you very much for your presentation. Very interesting. I think the map that you provide is telling. I represent a rural area in the northern half of Vancouver Island, and we thought we were in a bad way. But this really is telling.

I have a couple of questions. The figures that you’re giving here — these are just Northern Health. Are we also talking about…? Hilary mentioned those physios who are working with children. Are we talking about those who are in community social services, who are working through Ministry of Children and Family contracts? Are those part of this number?

My second question is: do you have…? I think the actual numbers of people who are working in the field might tell the story itself. But do you have any numbers of wait-lists? I know in my own community…. I hear regularly from people who are working particularly with children with special needs that they have this huge wait-list for being able to provide that help. I’m wondering, not just for the children but for other services, if there is any compilation of people who are waiting for physio help.

H. Crowley: I know that the child development centres keep a record of their waiting lists. I’m not familiar with the hospitals and other centres. Most of the numbers are registered physiotherapists working in the province. But maybe Terry can clarify which ones are Northern Health and which ones are registered.

T. Fedorkiw: Yes. We have 7 percent of physiotherapists who work in rural British Columbia, but only 2.6 percent work in Northern Health. That translates to 86 physiotherapists.

It leaves a lot of areas where there are no physiotherapists, so there’s no point in having a waiting list. There’s
[ Page 1823 ]
nothing — absolutely nothing. We have one physiotherapist in Prince Rupert, so we’re trying to run a student-led clinic out there to meet the needs out in Prince Rupert. And there’s a lot of industry.

C. Trevena: A quick follow-up. You’re recommending to increase the cohort by 20 a year. How quickly do you think that you would be able to start meeting some of the need? I mean, you get 20 people a year. Assuming 15 of them stay in the north, how quickly do you think you’d be able to start to resolve the crisis that you’re obviously facing?

T. Fedorkiw: Well, at the moment, we’re just doing clinical placements. We don’t have the academic side of the program. We have 20 students in the northern cohort, and 45 percent of those have gone to rural areas.

We’ve just filled a position in Vanderhoof. It was vacant for seven years. We have a sole physiotherapist in Vanderhoof. We have another sole physiotherapist in the cohort in Quesnel. We are gradually…. If we had the academic program, then the students would be resident in Prince George and we would get a better return for our work.

C. James (Deputy Chair): Claire touched on one of my questions, so I just want to make a comment to say thank you. I think the information has been clear that if we train people closer to the area that we hope that they’ll stay in, you’re more likely to have them stay there. Having done social work up in Prince George, we certainly saw that if we were able to get the social workers there and doing the training there, they would stay with the agency. I appreciate you mentioning that.

I also appreciate the inclusion of the most recent seniors advocate report. I think that was a very strong statistic around the lack of support that seniors are getting on rehab that could make a huge difference — and, again, as we all know, can save dollars in the health care system, ultimately.

Thank you for the report, and thank you for your very clear advocacy in this area.

H. Crowley: It has shown British Columbia falling way behind the rest of Canada in the seniors report.

S. Gibson: This is an important area. When I look at this diagram that you’ve disseminated, it’s quite troubling — even per capita. I mean, of course, the lower populations up north. But look at the per capita coverage. It’s quite troubling.

Are there any — I should perhaps know this as a government MLA — incentives or other means to attract people who would otherwise want to be in the Okanagan and southern areas, to encourage them to move to more remote areas in the region you represent? That would be my first question.

T. Fedorkiw: We have been doing that for so many years. For 30, 40 years, we’ve been trying to recruit. In fact, until the northern cohort started, our youngest B.C. graduate was 51. Looking at us here, our average age is 69 and we’re still working, because we want to get the program here.

S. Gibson: Wow. I guess the only other thing is then…. I think Carole’s remarks are well taken with regard to trying to train people up north to stay there. However, the caveat is that the 20 seats that you would like to open at UNBC…. Presumably, you want to recruit people from the local area to stay there. I just worry that somebody from Vernon or Abbotsford, where I live, says: “Wow, here’s my chance to take physiotherapy in a great university.” They move up there, and then move away after they’ve got their graduation. You know that’s a lament that we have.

H. Crowley: That’s fine. There’s still an increased chance that some of those would find the attractions of rural and northern British Columbia to their liking and would therefore stay.

T. Fedorkiw: Yes, we had 84 applicants for the northern rural cohort this year — 84. It’s a known statistic that wherever people train, they will work within 200 kilometres of that area.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Thank you, good doctors, for taking the time to present to this committee. The information you provided was well received. Again, we appreciate you taking time out of your busy lives to appear here. Have a good evening.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Good evening. We can hear you just fine. Welcome. I’ll let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll rudely interrupt you when you have about two minutes left, just to let you know it’s time to wrap up your thoughts. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions, if that works for you.

T. Hoffman: You bet. And I assume everyone has got the copy of my presentation before them.

The theme of my presentation is basically to plead for this committee to go forward with budgetary and policy
[ Page 1824 ]
recommendations to create and nurture the hosting conditions required for a modern and globally competitive forest industry. I’ve got six major themes that I want to share with you and several subthemes contained therein.

The first one is to prepare for the expiry of the softwood lumber agreement, which is forthcoming in October of this year. We would ask that there be provincial vigilance and vigour in defence of the B.C. forest industry against the activities of the U.S. Coalition for Fair Lumber Imports. The best way to do that is to provide resources, analytics and support to ministry staff to prepare for the extension and renegotiation of the SLA.

The second major theme that I want to share with you is: use B.C.’s competitive tax environment to encourage investment in, and a transformation of, the B.C. forest industry. I watched with great interest late last week…. I saw an article where the Premier to the east of us was out and about in the United States soliciting investment to her province.

They did increase the business tax rate, and in B.C. we do have a competitive tax environment and, certainly, fertile ground. I guess what I’m suggesting is a marketing scheme to encourage investment in, and the transformation of, the forest industry, subject to the following.

Support policies and incentives for capital manufacturing investments that increase the use of innovation and process technology to modernize facilities — for example, the refundable SR-and-ED credits, PST exemptions and manufacturing equipment and energy use in manufacturing.

The U.S. mills…. For a long time we’ve been quite proud to suggest that mills in British Columbia were further technologically advanced and that we were gaining market share because of that. Now the tide has turned, and those mills in the southern U.S. are outperforming the B.C. mills. These incentives are in order to capture capital manufacturing investments. The increased use of innovation is imperative to stay competitive with our neighbours to the south.

Secondly, support policies and incentives to support environmental upgrades required under the B.C. sawmill code of practices and to modernize manufacturing facilities — again, on the same theme: to remain competitive in a global perspective.

Support clarity, ease and review of administrative processes around tax credits and permits. I know that Minister Oakes does have a ministry with respect to red tape. We need to ensure that we do ease the review and administrative processes, because time is money.

Provide incentives to improve safety performance in manufacturing. I don’t have any specific examples, but I do know that safety is imperative. I believe that all parties…. It’s a non-partisan issue to ensure that everybody goes home safe every night.

Fund improvement to all rail, road, bridge and export infrastructures. About six months ago, I met with the then federal Minister of International Trade, and he asked the question: “How do we go about increasing our share of export opportunities?” My response to him was simply this: “We need to first get the commodities to the port in order to export them. We need efficient rail, road and bridge infrastructures.”

Finally, and I guess a subtheme of that, is to encourage the province to lobby the federal government, which is currently undertaking a review of the Canada Transportation Act and the monopoly that CN currently enjoys.

The third theme I want to share with you: improve the integrity of the market-based timber pricing system, or MPS. We would plead that the BCTS-apportioned volumes be sold. The BCTS remains an unreliable source of competitively priced wood. In the first two quarters of their operating year, the BCTS has underperformed in the Interior by 1.1 million cubic metres, which is about half of the Cariboo-Chilcotin. And 45 percent of BCTS business areas are underperforming below 75 percent of the target. Fibre supply in the Interior could be shortened by the equivalent of three large mills, based on that volume that isn’t being sold.

Secondly, resist and refuse demands that the forest industry pay to manage other forest resource users and values, unless the cost is directly recognized in the timber pricing system, in the buildup of stumpage. There are considerations and recognition currently for various…. Whether it’s roads or other aspects. But we need to avoid piling on extra costs to the industry in order for it to remain competitive in a global perspective.

The fourth theme is to secure access to economically viable fibre. We would plead that the province commit to providing primary manufacturing facilities with the sawlog volume required to maintain these facilities in the face of declining AAC decreasing the provincial forest land base. That’s as a result of the aboriginal rights and title claims of the Tsilhqot’in decision from June of 2014. The mountain pine beetle has certainly taken its toll on the annual allowable cut, as well as the green forested land base and expiring non-replaceable forest licences.

By way of example, primary manufacturers currently, for the most part, have about 50 percent secured fibre. The rest of the fibre is through competitive means. Again, going back to the BCTS example, where they have 20 percent of the annual allowable cut across the province, without them selling that fibre, we find ourselves in a supply shortage, increased demand. Of course, stumpage goes up, but we are uncompetitive in a global scheme.

The second theme — and I’d really like to highlight this one — is for the province to invest, as owners of the land
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base and of the forest, in a forest health program that effectively rehabilitates the forest and lands affected by the mountain pine beetle and manages community interface with the fire risk. There’s a huge….

The fifth theme is with respect to aboriginal relationships. We would plead that through this process, adequate resources are afforded to the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, as well as MARR, to ensure timely approval of cutting permits and road permits. By way of example, in both the Merritt and the Okanagan districts, they have one individual who is currently approving all of the cutting permits for a myriad of companies. We need to ensure that those permits are reviewed properly and that the resources are there to do that.

Finally, I’m going to skip to market development. I’m going to just talk to point (b), which is: continue the investments in offshore and U.S. market development activities by organizations such as the Canada and B.C. WoodWORKS! — an excellent program — and the B.C. Forestry Innovation Investment, as well as policies such as the Wood First program.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Hoffman. I appreciate that. I will go to the committee.

S. Gibson: Thank you, sir. Interesting presentation. I appreciate how your points are presented clearly to us today.

My quick question is on the pine beetle. You talk about forest health, but the rehabilitation is going to be over a long period of time.

I recognize that the effects of the pine beetle have been devastating, but isn’t a health program, really, way out there? My sense is that anything to do with the health of the forest, at this stage…. You’re looking at — what? — 20, 30, 40 years out. Would that be correct, sir?

T. Hoffman: With respect to forest health, Tolko Industries — and I can’t speak for the other companies — has submitted a proposal to the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations, whereby we separate the green annual allowable cut from the lands and forests that have been affected by the mountain pine beetle.

What we’re suggesting is that as the landowner…. I’ll use a metaphor. If you are the landowner of a garden and you have a bunch of dead corn in your garden, you have one of two choices. You can leave the dead corn there and not reap any benefit, or you can pay contractors to come in, remove the dead corn and plant raspberries, which may be selling at $30 a bushel. You end up, as the landowner, generating a profit from that land, as well as rehabilitating that land to fertile growing stock.

T. Hoffman: It’s an opportunity to convert dead mountain pine beetle stands to healthy, growing forests with the use of government funding to come in and remove the dead pine and plant whichever species is appropriate. As well as capturing carbon credits, you’re reducing the risk to communities of forest fire and potentially employing First Nations community peoples.

E. Foster: Thanks, Tom. When we get into…. I guess further to Simon’s questions…. In some of these areas you feel that the fibre is just going to be chipped or slashed too far away from anywhere merchantable. We then look at getting into, essentially, a negative-stumpage situation to rehabilitate that land.

Has anybody costed this out? Have you sat down with the ministry people and tried to come up with a number? I mean, this is a huge budgetary item. I’m not saying it doesn’t need to be done. We’ve certainly got to get that land back into production, but I’m just curious if anybody has kind of come up with a per-hectare price.

T. Hoffman: Thanks, Mr. Foster, for the question. The first thing I’d like to point out…. I don’t know the exact number. You would know better than I how much the province has spent this year on fighting forest fires. What I’m suggesting is that instead of being reactive in fighting forest fires, the province allocates funds substantially less towards the rehabilitation of these dead pine stands. As we all have witnessed, they’re dead. They stand for a few years, and then they blow over. Talk to any fire fighter. His or her worst nightmare is to fight a forest fire in blowdown timber.

It’s a reallocation of dollars. It’s not an increase in spending, Mr. Foster. I’m going to suggest it’s a reallocation. Rather than spending it on a reactive forest fire fighting campaign, it’s to rehabilitate the land, reduce the fire risk, put First Nations peoples to work, as well as getting the land back into production and creating an environment where carbon is sequestered.

D. Ashton: Sir, thank you very much. Just quickly, you had made mention of the efficiency of the mills that it appears Canadian producers have been purchasing down in the southern states. Can you just explain why they’re more efficient?

T. Hoffman: The simple answer is they’ve invested capital into new technology. With our current cost of fibre
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and the margins that we face, companies just don’t have the same amount of margin that they can use to invest in the mills. Our costs are higher, our profits are less, so we have a more narrow margin than they do. They’ve been actively investing capital in innovation for their mills.

D. Ashton: Mr. Hoffmann, thank you. I’m just curious, though. Are not a lot of Canadian companies very active in the southern states these days?

T. Hoffman: Absolutely. Two of the major licensees are investing in the United States. But I’m talking about companies…. Well, any company, but Tolko is a privately owned Canadian company. We have no assets in the United States. We find ourselves, as a Canadian-owned private company, struggling to compete with international companies that are not privately owned.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Seeing no further questions, Mr. Hoffman, thank you very much for taking the time to present a very informative argument. Have a good evening. It’s been great listening to you.

Without further ado, College of New Caledonia. We have our video conference — Mr. Henry Reiser.

Mr. Reiser, welcome. I’ll just let you know you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to give you a wave with a couple of minutes left so you can conclude your thoughts, and then we’ll go to the committee for questions. The floor is yours.

H. Reiser: Thank you very much. Again, my name is Henry Reiser, and I’m the president of CNC. Unfortunately, our chair of the board, Mr. Vince Prince, is unable to attend.

I will be addressing three major points today. First, I will help you understand the important role that CNC plays in education as well as economic and community development across the north and central Interior region. Second, I will explain how CNC is well positioned to help the province achieve its goals as outlined in the skills-for-jobs blueprint and the top 50 jobs in demand. Finally, I’ll describe how the province can help CNC reach its goals of providing skills training and access to post-secondary education for all learners in northern B.C.

Who are we? Well, students. We provide education and skills training to about 4,200 students across our six campuses in Prince George, Quesnel, Mackenzie, Vanderhoof, Fort St. James and Burns Lake. We accommodate another 4,600 students through continuing education and approximately 360 more through international education. The average age of our students is 26.

Nearly 24 percent, or 2,088, of our domestic learners are aboriginal, with two of our campuses having more than 61.8 percent, on average, aboriginal learners. We’ve been able to increase the enrolment and participation of aboriginal learners by 33 percent in regular credit programs since 2005 and by over 80 percent in all program and service areas.

How do we contribute? Well, in training and education, CNC has a central role to play in developing the highly skilled and educated workforce required for northern British Columbia. From the economy, CNC students and alumni specifically contributed $201.7 million to the regional economy in 2012-13, according to a report commissioned by B.C. Colleges. The report also states that for every dollar of public money invested in CNC, taxpayers receive a cumulative value of $2.20 over the course of the students’ working lives.

How are we unique? Accessibility. Our involvement in the Key Centre in Fort St. James has helped provide grassroots access to education and jobs to the most marginalized First Nations people in the area. According to the mayor, crime in the community was reduced by 17 percent in the first year and 25 percent in the second year.

CNC’s fetal alcohol syndrome disorder program on-line education is renowned and has helped increase awareness and understanding throughout the world.

We are collaborative. CNC continues to look for new and different ways to build capacity through partnerships and collaboration with government, industry, the K-to-12 system and labour to meet the economic objectives of the province.

CNC has increased its entrepreneurial activity in the last few years with industry and private donors and raised more than $3 million for equipment for students, scholarships, bursaries and endowment funds. We also have more than $4 million in industry-funded projects in progress.

With our industry partners. CNC is continuing to partner with Canfor and school district 57 to run the Canfor trades program, which introduces grade 7 students to carpentry and electrical trades.

Educational partners. Well, the Northern Post-secondary Council, the NPSC, met today with a commitment to work together in a collaborative, collegial nature to deliver post-secondary education in the north. We plan to develop our ed plans cooperatively in the coming year.

First Nations partners. CNC collaborates with over 20 First Nations across the region and recognizes numerous partners in its aboriginal service plan. It also relies on continued support from the Yinka Dene council, which advises the president and the college on appropriate directions and priorities for aboriginal people throughout the region.

Our community partners. We have strong advisory committees, our program advisory committees, across all of our program areas and regional communities, including the Yinka Dene council, the North Cariboo Post-Secondary council and the President’s Industry Council. All provide invaluable information, assessment and feedback to the college. We rely on consultation with our
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region’s mayors and community groups in order to ensure that our trajectory falls in line with regional needs and goals.

In the area of research and development. CNC’s office of applied research and innovation is very active in developing partnerships with industry and the federal government. These research projects link back to the classroom by creating experiential learning opportunities for the students and by developing the essential skills identified in the Conference Board of Canada’s innovation 2.0 documents. CNC is currently working on numerous applied research projects in forestry innovation, green electricity production and sustainable food production for First Nations.

Our challenges. CNC has experienced $12.47 million in deficit budgets since 2008. These deficits have already resulted in reduced program offerings, program intake suspensions and cancellations, reductions to services and further employee layoffs.

In general, CNC’s tuition rates are well below the provincial average because its rates were established many years ago, and with only 2 percent increases allowed over the years, it has never caught up. For example, CNC charges 18.2 percent less than the B.C. average for its trades training. If CNC was allowed to charge the average trades tuition, it would add an estimated $1.4 million in revenue annually.

Increased government reporting requirements have become problematic for smaller institutions. The recommendations of the ITA report and the outline of the blueprint suggest even greater emphasis on reporting and accountability, which will further increase institutional workloads. Much of the work submitted has little return or benefit to us. The excessive reporting actually hurts CNC because it draws valuable resources away from strategic planning.

I have become the senior president in northern B.C. Part of the reason for this — by the way, I’ve been president since June of 2014 — is the compensation freeze for administrators over the past five years, which has made recruitment and retention extremely challenging.

The compensation gap between employees and administrators has compressed to the point where many administrators make a lower hourly rate than their employees.

It’s important to note that two of the Northern Post-secondary Council’s presidents left their posts for more lucrative positions in Alberta and Ontario this summer alone. It is difficult to grow our own experienced administrators when they leave and go to other institutions.

Where are we going? Skills training. CNC is currently providing training for more than three-quarters of the top 50 in-demand jobs and careers.

Accessibility. CNC is currently working on an exciting digital delivery initiative which takes advantage of improvements to broadband Internet connectivity to northern B.C. The initiative utilizes improved technologies to provide synchronous, instructor-driven courses to a wider student group at reduced cost. We have begun to pilot the DDI in Quesnel, and we hope to expand its delivery to our other campuses, First Nations communities and other countries in the near future. We will continue to share our progress with all of the members of the Northern Post-Secondary Council as it emerges.

How can the province help? Provide consistent, long-term funding for aboriginal learners. We want to maximize aboriginal learners’ participation in the workforce but realize that many will need upgrading and other supports before they can enter traditional programs. CNC is uniquely structured to help because of its community locations throughout northern B.C. In many cases, CNC will also need to take training to the First Nations reserves, and our development of the DDI will help us do so.

Help fund CNC’s digital delivery initiative. It will allow CNC to more effectively and efficiently provide access to education to learners in smaller communities, allowing them to remain close to home, which thereby increases their chances of success.

Continue to help fund applied research along with the federal government, our industry partners and First Nations.

Approve and provide funding for CNC’s civil engineering technology program. The civil engineering technology diploma is an ideal place for the province to invest a portion of its $270 million for in-demand jobs. Engineers and technicians will play a pivotal role in the nearly $175 billion in industry investment over the next decade.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Mr. Reiser, you’re almost a minute into questions. You’re welcome to continue, but it’s just cutting into question time. That’s all.

H. Reiser: Invest a total of $125,000 into civil engineering technology — $50,000 from core review savings and $75,000 from international education.

Transition students to the workforce faster. More funding for workforce transition will help ensure that our students are able to shift into jobs as soon as they finish their training. Increasing CTC and CODA-type programming will ensure that students have already gained relevant experience prior to finishing their training.

Capital renewal of the college facilities. Aging and obsolete teaching facilities, together with years of fiscal constraint and the reduction of routine maintenance funding, have resulted in the need for capital improvements at all CNC campuses. In order for the colleges to remain effective and efficient learning environments and offer relevant and innovative programming, CNC needs to update its facility.
[ Page 1828 ]

Finally, allowing a tuition review, a one-time catch-up to the provincial norms, would go a long way to ensuring the financial health and sustainability of the college.

We do have about a minute and a half or so for questions, and I know Mike would like to ask one.

M. Morris: Dr. Reiser, good to see you. Thanks for your presentation here today.

You say we’re about 18 percent below the provincial average at CNC for trades training. That’s all trades?

M. Morris: Okay. You talk about the fact that CNC has been in existence for a long time, and the 2 percent wage hike is particularly detrimental to the college because of the length of time that some of these courses have been in progress there. Can you elaborate a little bit on that? How far behind are we, actually? You talk about the 18 percent. But what other aspects exacerbate the situation?

H. Reiser: Well, part of the problem is that when the decision to raise tuition was made a number of years ago — about 2003 — and the 2 percent cap was imposed, it was decided by the administration, at that time, to try and make it a fair and equitable deal for the students and not raise the tuition, as all the other institutions did within the province.

That has come back to haunt us and penalize us. We have the second-lowest tuition in the province, second only to VCC. So the net effect is significant.

Okay. Seeing none, thank you very much for taking the time to present to the committee. Have a good evening.

Finally, we have the Nechako Valley Historical Society — John Alderliesten. As you’re getting ready, I’ll let you know that you have ten minutes for your presentation. I’ll try to get your attention and give you the high sign with a couple of minutes left so you can conclude your thoughts. Then we’ll go to the committee for questions.

If you’re ready, the floor is yours. And you have some company. I wonder if you could introduce the gentleman that you’re with, starting on your left.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Oh, and another gentleman. Anybody who’s going to go on the record, we have to know who you are.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Then to your immediate left are Gary Gurnsey and Betty Gurnsey.

Ten minutes for the presentation. I’ll try to get your attention with a couple minutes left, and then we’ll go from there. We’ll start the clock now. The floor is yours.

J. Alderliesten: Vanderhoof MenShed Society is pleased and honoured to be able to make this presentation to the Finance Committee. My name is John Alderliesten, president of the Vanderhoof MenShed Society. Thanks to John Rustad, our MLA, we are here today to present the concept of men sheds, a hangout for guys. It’s been noticed that whereas women talk face to face, men talk shoulder to shoulder. Men sheds create a place for this to happen.

Vanderhoof MenShed, the second such outfit in Canada — the first is in Winnipeg — has been operational for one year, and we’re continually collecting more members and more stuff. We are in contact with people in Prince George, Kelowna and Quesnel, etc., and other locations all interested in creating their own men shed.

The Australian government funds thousands of men sheds, and there are other places around the world with men sheds, such as Ireland and England. Just google the words “men shed,” and you’ll find out all kinds of neat stuff.

Along with the coffee pot and creating a space for mechanical projects, like restoring an old Honda 550, and a small carpenter shop for fixing furniture to making bird houses, we have held dinners, dart games, bowling, yard sales, a night with a lawyer and lunch with local doctors.

Future projects could include a repair café, outreach to the local First Nation, showing off our new donated 3D printer in the local high school and maybe running a local reuse shed. We could also host a high-tech innovation centre. These types of activities are just the ticket for retirees, widowers, handicapped and the just plain lonely.

Research shows that spending money on this demographic is well worth it. Happier people are much healthier. Healthy people are much happier. Connecting with these guys is an important first step.

Dr. David Bowering, the chief medical officer, wrote a report called Where are the Men? He gives the 2011 picture of the situation, and since then, I suppose, not much has changed.

Here in Vanderhoof, we’ve had some great support from Northern Health and hope this can continue.
[ Page 1829 ]
Running a men shed has operational costs such as rent, insurance, utilities, supplies and advertising. Organizing and documenting takes lots of effort. To get more men sheds in northern B.C., we should really have a coordinator who can spread the word on this great concept, helping groups to get the resources they need.

I was going to present a CD with some PowerPoint and things, but I have to…. We have some links, on this page that I’ve provided, to our website: www.vhms.org, which links to this document of Dr. David Bowering’s called Where are the Men? In it, you’ll find lots of information about the status of men in northern B.C. You can see that there are lots of needs and that they’re looking for ways to connect with men. I feel that the men shed concept is well worth supporting by the government.

With me here are Harold Iverson and Allan Dixon, both of whom want to start a men shed, or a type of facility for men, in Prince George. But they needed some capital, to redo a dust collection system, in their help for a place. They needed a cash infusion at the start, but for the rest, they have a lot of the stuff already.

Every situation will be different, but I believe that if we had a men shed type of thing in each village, the status of men would be quite improved. In Vanderhoof, in one year, we count 60 members now, and we’re getting a lot of support from Northern Health. I wish that the British Columbia government would encourage it with more finances.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Okay. Thank you very much for that. I’ll start with questions from the committee, and I’m going to start with Spencer.

S. Chandra Herbert: Thank you for the presentation and for coming out to share the concept of men sheds. I had heard of man caves. I’d never heard of a men shed before. I appreciate it. I took the opportunity to do a quick google, as you suggested, and there are a lot of men sheds in a number of communities — just not here in Canada yet. So it’s very interesting.

I’ve heard of the bar as a man shed, but you’re right. If we want to talk about health, that’s probably not the healthiest place to be.

Have you had any connections with either — and I’ll say them — the Men’s Health Initiative or — this is a separate organization in British Columbia — the Health Initiative for Men. They’re actually two organizations looking at male health in this province. I’m just curious. Have you connected with any of these types of organizations to spread the word, got encouragement from them or anything like that?

J. Alderliesten: I haven’t heard from either of those organizations. We just recently had an interview by CKPG, and we’re on the evening news here in Prince George. We had a morning interview on CBC, which gave us 15 minutes to advertise. After that interview, I received several calls from Smithers and other places about people interested in the same concept.

I think that we need to spend some time and energy to make this a resource for men in all of our local communities.

S. Chandra Herbert: I just want to say thank you for raising this with us. I hadn’t heard of this before. I’ll do some more looking. I know a lot of men who do not look at health issues, would never want to go into a doctor’s or a hospital or something like that. So if there’s a way that we can connect to them, all the better. Thanks for raising it with me, and I’ll certainly follow up some more of the research.

You mentioned that these are the kinds of activities that are, as you say in your presentation, just the ticket for retirees and widowers. I wonder whether you’re focused on retirees. Is that kind of the age group that you’re looking at for men shed, or are you hoping to attract a range of ages of men who are interested?

There are several who are on permanent disability, one for mental health, and he’s just blossomed in our men shed. He’s just done so well, feeling better about himself. A mechanic guy who has a bad back and can’t do his…. He’s also on disability. He’s spending a lot of time there helping other guys fix their stuff. It’s been really good for a lot of people.

M. Morris: Yeah, a very interesting concept, and I haven’t heard of this either.

I would encourage you to stay in touch with your MLA, John Rustad, on this. We look forward to seeing how you progress with this. It’s a very interesting project. I wish you success.

S. Hamilton (Chair): Seeing no further questions, I’d like to take the opportunity on behalf of the committee to thank you for taking the time to present this evening. It’s much appreciated. A lot of good information. We all learned something new today, that’s for sure. I do appreciate you sharing your thoughts with us. Thank you very much. Have a good evening.

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2) Board of Education, School District No. 57 (Prince George)	Brenda Hooker
	Tony Cable
	Bruce Wiebe
	Bob Harris
	Allan Reed

Chair:	Wm. Scott Hamilton (Delta North BC Liberal)
Deputy Chair:	Carole James (Victoria–Beacon Hill NDP)
Members:	Dan Ashton (Penticton BC Liberal)
	Spencer Chandra Herbert (Vancouver–West End NDP)
	Eric Foster (Vernon-Monashee BC Liberal)
	Simon Gibson (Abbotsford-Mission BC Liberal)
	George Heyman (Vancouver-Fairview NDP)
	Mike Morris (Prince George–Mackenzie BC Liberal)
	Claire Trevena (North Island NDP)
	John Yap (Richmond-Steveston BC Liberal)
Clerk:	Susan Sourial

1) Prince George Chamber of Commerce	Cindi Pohl
	Lorna Wendling
	Christie Ray
	Bill Quinn

4) Prince George Mental Health Consumer Council	Sandy Ramsay
	Pennie-Lynn Davidson
	Craig Norton

5) Canadian Mental Health Association, Prince George Branch	Maureen Davis
	Mary Lu Spagrud

6) Promotion of Wellness in Northern BC	Dr. Anne Pousette
	Dr. Michelle Sutter

8) Physiotherapists for Northern Communities	Hilary Crowley
	Elizabeth MacRitchie
	Terry Fedorkiw

11) Vanderhoof MenShed Society	John Alderliesten
	Gary Gurnsey
	Betty Gurnsey
	Harold Iverson
	Allan Dixon

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