Public Accounts — Issue No. 1 — Wednesday, July 17, 2013 (HTML)

Present: Bruce Ralston, MLA (Chair); Sam Sullivan, MLA (Deputy Chair); Kathy Corrigan, MLA; Marc Dalton, MLA; David Eby, MLA; Simon Gibson, MLA; George Heyman, MLA; Vicki Huntington, MLA; Linda Reimer, MLA; Selina Robinson, MLA; Laurie Throness, MLA

Unavoidably Absent: Greg Kyllo, MLA; Norm Letnick, MLA; Mike Morris, MLA; Shane Simpson, MLA

1. There not yet being a Chair elected to serve the Committee, the meeting was called to order at 11:50 a.m. by the Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees.

2. Resolved, that Bruce Ralston, MLA, be elected Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts. (Sam Sullivan, MLA)

3. Resolved, that Sam Sullivan, MLA, be elected Deputy Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts. (Marc Dalton, MLA)

4. Resolved, that the Sub-committee on Agenda and Procedure be comprised of the Chair and Deputy Chair. (Selina Robinson, MLA)

5. The Committee discussed the annual CCPAC-CCOLA Conference to be held in Regina, Saskatchewan, August 25-27, 2013 as well as information regarding a PAC symposium to be held in London, England in October, 2013.

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS


CONTENTS
Page
Election of Chair and Deputy Chair	1
Establishment of Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure	1
Other Business	1

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees): Good afternoon, Members — or good morning, technically speaking. Welcome to the first meeting of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts of this parliament. As there's not yet a Chair elected to serve your committee, the first item of business is to open the call for nominations to the position of Chair.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): Thank you. Are there any other nominations? Any other nominations?

Seeing no further nominations, would you accept nomination for the position, Bruce?

Just for the record, they're putting my name as Chair on a little sign in front of the Chair.

The next item on the agenda is the election of the Deputy Chair, so I'd open nominations for the position of Deputy Chair.

B. Ralston (Chair): Sam Sullivan has been nominated. Are there any further nominations, once? Any further nominations, twice? Any further nominations, three times?

B. Ralston (Chair): I declare Sam Sullivan elected Deputy Chair of the committee.

B. Ralston (Chair): The next item is the appointment of a subcommittee on agenda and procedure. Anticipating this, Sam and I have met previously, and the suggestion is that he and I constitute that committee. We will be meeting regularly, in any event, to discuss agenda items.

Generally, the tradition in this committee, insofar as it's possible, is a lower level of partisanship and some cooperation on setting agendas and generally accomplishing the work of the committee. An important component of that is a good relationship between the Chair and the Deputy Chair. I think we're off to a good start.

I would entertain a motion to strike a subcommittee consisting of myself, the Chair, and the Deputy Chair.

B. Ralston (Chair): The next item on the agenda is any other business. Kate has a couple of items that she wishes to report on.

I might just say, in terms of prefatory remarks, that I want to congratulate members who have been appointed to the committee. I think that if you're new to the committee, you will find that it's a really interesting and valuable insight into the operations of government and broader government, whether it's schools, universities, colleges and hospitals. You get a real sense of how government operates. It's an interesting and challenging committee, and it does a lot of, I think, really important and valuable work.

We'll be scheduling meetings, and we are empowered to meet outside of session. We'll try to arrange meetings, I think, in the fall to consider a number of the reports of the Auditor General. Those we will endeavour to make coincide with meetings of the respective opposition and government caucuses — or, in the case of the independent member, her schedule as well. I'll advise a little bit further on progress as we go along.

There'll be as much notice as possible. Generally, there will be material distributed well in advance of the meeting, and people will come to the meeting ready to hear the report and ask questions of witnesses.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): One of the items that I wanted to bring to the attention of the committee is the opportunity for members of this committee to attend an annual conference of Canadian public accounts committees, which is being hosted this August in Saskatchewan by the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan, in Regina. The dates of that conference are August 25 to 27.

The purpose of the conference is to provide an opportunity for members of public accounts committees
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— particularly Chairs and Deputy Chairs, and other interested members — to meet to discuss jurisdictional practices and to share insights into the work and impact of public accounts committees across Canada. It's an excellent opportunity for members to receive information and meet colleagues from across the country that you would have a common interest with.

The annual event is always held in conjunction with the annual meeting of the CCOLA conference, the Canadian Council of Legislative Auditors. The Auditors General and their senior staff from across the country will also be at the concurrent conference, and there are some joint activities and joint sessions. Members have routinely gone on behalf of the British Columbia PAC over the years. I know our Chair has been an attendee in past years and perhaps can speak, as well, to the benefit of that opportunity.

I do have some registration information, so if you have an opportunity to discuss amongst your colleagues if you have an interest in attending, please let the Chair or the Deputy Chair know, and we can make some arrangements on your behalf.

The other item is something that had been brought to my attention — an information item, an unusual invitation that I received during the interregnum period for a similar public accounts committee symposium in London, England, of all places, in October. Although I'm not familiar if British Columbia has taken the opportunity to send a delegation to that event in the past, it does appear to be a very engaging event, and it has a very good program. I can provide members with further information on that if there's an interest.

B. Ralston (Chair): Perhaps before, Kate could advise: what is the available budget for the committee to fund travel to Regina, first, and secondly, to the other location?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk of Committees): The committee's budget for all parliamentary committees is a global amount and based on the other activities, including public consultation of other committees. We certainly would have some provision to provide support to any committee members who wish to attend the conferences. As part of our standard budgeting process we always anticipate at least two members of this committee will attend the Canadian conference, so that is a routine budget item that we have provided for.

S. Sullivan (Deputy Chair): Mike Morris approached me because he's on the committee to hire the Auditor General, and he suggested it might be valuable for him to go. I thought it made sense. I don't know if there's anybody else, perhaps, on the other side that….

B. Ralston (Chair): Well, rather than make a decision now, perhaps you and I can discuss this. Other people may wish to consider their schedules. The prospect of the end of August in Regina may be tantalizing to some.

Seriously, I do want to stress that it is an annual event and there are members of public accounts committees from across the country, so you do get a real sense, particularly if you're new, how public accounts committees work. There are presentations. There's a little bit of a continuing education element to it, plus there are presentations by other Auditors General from across the country and sometimes some interesting speakers as well. It is a fairly small but, I guess, far-flung fraternity that meets on this basis.

As a new member, particularly, to the committee, you could learn, I think, quite a bit from meeting colleagues across the country and getting an idea of respective practices and obligations. There is an organization that advises and has a mandate to elevate the standards of public accounts committees, because they do play a very important role within the legislative scheme in the British parliamentary system. There's a lot to learn, and I think members who want to go would benefit from, at least, travelling to Regina.

London — I was just advised of that. Obviously, that's a different kind of undertaking. Perhaps, again, myself, as the Chair, and the vice-Chair could meet quickly on that. I think what we would want to do is give a clear indication about the Regina event fairly quickly.

I think they were anticipating responses some time ago, but in view of the election and the summer session, our response has been delayed. Until the committee is actually constituted, it's hard to accept an invitation.

If that's understood — that people who are interested can either contact myself or Sam — we'll meet in the next day or so, subject to Sam's availability, and then let you know on the Regina event. If anyone is interested in the London event, then maybe we can similarly receive expressions of interest, and we'll make some decisions there as well.

Does that sound fair, then? Is that okay? Any further discussion on either of those topics?

S. Sullivan (Deputy Chair): As an aside, Craig James has been the executive director of this group since 1985, so he's very ensconced in it.

B. Ralston (Chair): Sure. If there's nothing else on those topics, then, go ahead. I don't think there is? No. Okay, go ahead.

V. Huntington: I wanted to comment, Mr. Chair, that occasionally during the last term I thought that there
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were a couple of opportunities that could have been explored further that came out of some of the Auditor General's reports. I wonder if…. Again, it requires a less partisan approach to issues that I think are fundamental to government and have to be examined as part and parcel of good governance.

I'm wondering if you and the vice-Chair or the committee would ever consider the formation of the odd subcommittee to look into some of these issues more deeply, if we feel that would be appropriate.

B. Ralston (Chair): Sure. Why don't I agree that either myself or Sam, or the two of us together, will meet with you, and we can perhaps thrash that out and then decide how we'd proceed with that? I'm just cognizant of the hour. I know members have other obligations at 12.

I appreciate you raising it. We will, then, take that up with you, and thank you for raising it.

Are there any other issues, then? Seeing none, I'll entertain a motion for adjournment.

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Chair:	* Bruce Ralston (Surrey-Whalley NDP)
Deputy Chair:	* Sam Sullivan (Vancouver–False Creek BC Liberal)
Members:	* Kathy Corrigan (Burnaby–Deer Lake NDP)
	* Marc Dalton (Maple Ridge–Mission BC Liberal)
	* David Eby (Vancouver–Point Grey NDP)
	* Simon Gibson (Abbotsford-Mission BC Liberal)
	* George Heyman (Vancouver-Fairview BC Liberal)
	* Vicki Huntington (Delta South Ind.)
	Greg Kyllo (Shuswap BC Liberal)
	Norm Letnick (Kelowna–Lake Country BC Liberal)
	Mike Morris (Prince George–Mackenzie BC Liberal)
	* Linda Reimer (Port Moody–Coquitlam BC Liberal)
	* Selina Robinson (Coquitlam-Maillardville NDP)
	Shane Simpson (Vancouver-Hastings NDP)
	* Laurie Throness (Chilliwack-Hope BC Liberal)
	* denotes member present
Clerks:	Kate Ryan-Lloyd
	Susan Sourial

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS