Finance and Government Services — Issue No. 85 — Tuesday, October 16, 2012 (HTML)

Skylight Banquet Room, Ramada Hotel Downtown
444 George Street, Prince George, B.C.

Present: Douglas Horne, MLA (Chair); Mable Elmore, MLA (Deputy Chair); Gary Coons, MLA; Marc Dalton, MLA; Dave S. Hayer, MLA; John Les, MLA; Pat Pimm, MLA; Bruce Ralston, MLA; John Slater, MLA

3. The following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions:

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES


CONTENTS
Page
Presentations	2288
M. Morris
M. Pearce
T. Muirhead
C. Noonan
A. Pousette
B. Ward-Burkitt
K. Kilcullen
C. Jago
J. Brandle-McCall
B. McGill
B. Quinn
R. Wilczek
J. Johnston
J. Mastromatteo
J. Turner
K. Smith
D. Carson
K. Beeson
B. Kelly
A. Pousette
D. Roze
M. Alexander
K. Patterson

D. Horne (Chair): Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Douglas Horne. I'm the MLA for Coquitlam–Burke Mountain and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services. This is an all-party committee of the Legislative Assembly whose mandate includes conducting annual public consultations for the upcoming provincial budget.

I'd like to welcome the massive audience we currently have and thank you for taking the time to participate in this important process.

Every year in preparation of next year's budget the Minister of Finance releases a budget consultation paper. This paper presents the current economic and fiscal forecast and identifies key issues that need to be addressed in the next provincial budget. Printed copies of the Budget 2013 consultation paper are available at the information desk at the back of the room.

Once the paper is released, this committee holds public consultations and invites input from British Columbians. Following the consultation period, the committee releases a report containing a series of recommendations for the upcoming budget. The report must be presented to the Legislative Assembly no later than November 15.

There are several ways for British Columbians to participate. This year the committee is scheduled to hold 18 public hearings in communities throughout the province. We've already visited Surrey, Castlegar, Cranbrook, Kelowna, Vernon, Vancouver, Coquitlam, Abbotsford, Fort St. John, Quesnel, Kamloops, Prince Rupert, Kitimat, and Smithers this morning.

We also held public video conferencing hearings and heard from Dawson Creek, Fort Nelson and Salmon Arm. After today's meeting we are scheduled to travel to Courtenay, Parksville and Victoria.

In addition to public hearings, British Columbians can also share their ideas by sending a written submission through an on-line form on our website. We also accept written submissions by e-mail, letter and fax, along with video and audio files.

As well, British Columbians can fill out a short on-line survey on our website, which is located at www.leg.bc.ca/budgetconsultations. There you will find further information on the consultation process, download a copy of the budget consultation paper and learn more about the work of this committee.

All of the public input we receive is carefully considered. The deadline for submissions is this Thursday, October 18.

I'd like to start the meeting with having committee members introduce themselves, and I'll start on my right with John Slater.

J. Slater: Hi. My name is John Slater. I'm the MLA for Boundary-Similkameen, and I live in Osoyoos.

P. Pimm: I'm Pat Pimm. I'm the MLA for Peace River North, and I live in Fort St. John.

D. Hayer: Good afternoon. I'm Dave Hayer, MLA for Surrey-Tynehead. I live in Surrey. My constituency has the widest bridge in the world. That's the new Port Mann Bridge.

J. Les: I'm John Les from Chilliwack. I've had no new bridges built for a while.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Good afternoon. Mable Elmore from Vancouver-Kensington and Deputy Chair of the committee.

G. Coons: Good afternoon. Hi, Mike. Gary Coons, MLA for the North Coast, from Prince Rupert.

D. Horne (Chair): Also joining us today from the parliamentary committees office is our Clerk, Susan Sourial, who is sitting to my left; Stephanie Raymond, who is at the registration desk in the back of the room; as well as Jean Medland and Steve Gullickson, who are with Hansard Services and recording and transcribing today's proceedings.

A copy of this transcript along with the minutes will be printed and made available on the committee's website. In addition to the transcript, an audio webcast of this meeting is being posted on the committee's website.

At today's meeting each presenter may speak for up to ten minutes followed by an additional five minutes allotted for questions from committee members. Time permitting, we also may have an open-mike session near the end of the hearing with five minutes allocated to each presenter. If you actually are interested in speaking at the end of the day, please register in advance at the information table at the back of the room.

I will now call our first presenter, who is Mike Morris with the British Columbia Trappers Association. Mike, good to see you. Thank you for being here today. You have, as you heard, ten minutes to present followed by about five minutes of questions, and your time begins now.
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M. Morris: I appreciate it. Thank you very much. It's kind of a pleasure having your undivided attention in this kind of forum. I guess it's not true that the first up in the location is the first at the trough.

A bit of background. B.C. Trappers Association has been around since 1945, the first organized wildlife stakeholder group in British Columbia, and we have operated every year since, with a good contingent of membership across the province. We now represent approximately 800 trappers within British Columbia.

Right now we have approximately 1,100 licensed trappers in B.C., down from about 3,500 licensed trappers back in 1985. We've had a bit of a crash and burn over the last three decades.

B.C. was leading the pack in Canada back in 1926 when it established the registered trapline system. It was second to none back in those days. From my counterparts across Canada and North America…. It's still envied by a lot of jurisdictions around North America. It works quite well for us.

It started off with about 2,900 registered traplines. I'm told by ministry staff that we're down to somewhere around 2,600. I don't know the reasons for the decline, other than some perhaps have been amalgamated with others.

Over the years many of the traplines have become vacant or abandoned for various reasons. There are a lot of people that have purchased traplines in the last couple of decades to try and circumvent the provincial Land Act in acquiring lakeside cabins and whatnot and have diverted the trapline cabins and the traplines themselves from commercial use to private recreational sites and whatnot. Some have even gone as far as renting the facilities out, so there's been quite a deviation from the intended purpose of these lines.

Part of the other problem we're facing is that regional wildlife branches throughout the province have consistently undervalued trapping and have not placed the priority that we feel should have been placed on trapping over the years. As a result of that, the proper compliance and administration of trapping have virtually disappeared within the province. There are no dedicated fur management resources in the province right now to this day looking after trapping issues.

Some of the problems that we've dealt with in the last little while…. As I said, the number of licensed trappers has decreased by over 60 percent in the last three decades. Revenues from wild fur back in the early '80s was around $10 million a year in 1980s dollars; today it would be significantly more. I don't think we hit the $1 million mark for wild fur production for 2011. We were less than $1 million in 2010.

Since 1985 approximately 60 percent of all traplines in the province have become inactive or vacant. One of the significant issues we're faced with right now — and it's partially attributable to some process, but it's more attributable to a lack of resources within the wildlife habitat management branch — is our licence renewals and permit authorizations. As Mr. Pimm can attest, we've had some issues up in his area with the treaty 8 issues and whatnot.

We had trappers last year miss the entire season of trapping. They were unable to generate any revenue at all because they didn't get their licence to trap. We've had nuisance-animal trappers throughout the province that have not been able to handle any nuisance-animal complaints within their respective areas because their licences haven't been issued in time.

North American Fur Auctions has a fur depot here in Prince George that probably ships 80 percent or more of the province's wild fur harvest, including some fur from the Yukon that comes through this particular office. Last year I would say about $700,000 worth of fur went through the Prince George fur depot.

We just about lost about a half-million-dollar shipment. Not lost the shipment, but the shipment was delayed so long by the lack of a permit to export the fur to the fur auction in Toronto that we just about missed the fur deadline for the auction sale.

Countless trappers within the province wouldn't have had their cheques as a result of that. We had to make some phone calls. We had to get some MLAs and the minister involved in that particular thing to try and push that along, and we feel it was unnecessary.

Trapping is legislated in the province. A registered trapper is legislated to trap his or her trapline every year. If he doesn't, it can be set…. It can be idle for approximately two years, and if he doesn't have the permission of the regional manager, then that trapline is deemed to be abandoned under the legislation.

I copied that for your information in the package I gave you. Then that trapline can be seized by the government and auctioned off to trappers who are interested in trapping.

We, the B.C. Trappers, administer the trapper education program on behalf of the province. We train approximately 250 new trappers every year in the province.

We have countless numbers of trappers coming to us all the time looking for available traplines to trap. Of course, because the province hasn't kept up on the administration of trapping, a lot of these traplines are still sitting vacant. They're not being used, and they're dormant. We'd like to see those become active traplines again.

There are consequences, though, to a nonexistent fur management program in the province — consequences to all British Columbians. I'd like to go over some of those consequences.
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First up, which we feel is very important, are the health and safety issues that are related to trapping — believe it or not — in the province. Increased wildlife encounters in populated areas have resulted in attacks on people and pets.

We've all seen media releases over the past few months and year. We've had racoons attack people in the Lower Mainland. We've had coyotes attack a guy recently on a bicycle. We've had pets that have been killed by wildlife in populated areas.

One that you probably are not aware of. We had a rancher come to us in the South Cariboo approximately a month and a half ago. He had one of his wranglers, cowboys, on a horse chased by a pack of wolves for about 17 kilometres. That's a very serious kind of situation.

Also, we've seen in the media, which is a concern to the B.C. Trappers Association, increased incidents of unqualified citizens attempting to trap nuisance wildlife animals themselves in populated communities. They're using unauthorized, unapproved equipment. They have no idea what they're doing, and that poses a greater risk to the public and to the public's pets and whatnot in those kinds of environments.

There's an increased risk to provincial, municipal and private property infrastructures due to flooding from the activities of beaver, muskrat and those kinds of animals — the domestic water supply, sewage treatment plants and whatnot. Right across this province trappers are being called upon on a regular basis to assist municipalities, regional districts and private enterprise in mitigating some of those situations.

There are also increased health hazards to citizens from waterborne diseases and animal feces, particularly from wolves and coyotes and the canine variety of animals.

From an economic perspective, we are facing substantial losses, in the millions of dollars provincewide, to the provincial cattle and sheep producers. I talk quite frequently with the executive director of the B.C. Cattlemen's Association. In 2010 there were 945 confirmed predator kills of B.C. cattle — just cattle themselves. There was an equal number missing that we couldn't verify were killed by predators.

What I mean by verified is that we have trained verifiers within the provincial conservation officer service and amongst B.C. trappers as well. By doing an examination of the animal, we can determine whether it was killed by a wolf, a cougar, a bear or by some other means. We can say without a doubt that the majority of these 945 animals in 2010 were killed by wolves. The majority of the 1,032 animals killed in 2011 were killed by wolves.

Interestingly enough, the areas hit the hardest — the South Cariboo, the Peace River area; the Skeena area doesn't have that many animals out there, but it was hit quite hard in comparison — are also areas where we have the highest incidence of abandoned traplines and unused traplines. We feel there is a correlation between the number of unused traplines we have in the province and the high incidence of wolf and predator kills that we have throughout the province.

There's a substantial decrease in the wild ungulate populations — in moose, deer, elk, caribou and whatnot. The provincial government just released some statistics not too long ago indicating that the moose population in the Omineca region of the province is down 50 percent from 2005. In the Skeena-Nass area it's down 70 percent from 2005, and in other areas it's down as much as 30 percent or more since 2005.

We feel that this has, in large part, to do with the increase in wolf predation over the last ten to 20 years, which again has a correlation to the decrease in the number of trappers that we have in the province since that period of time.

Increased cost to taxpayers for infrastructure, increased cost to industry to repair flooded resource roads and power transmission lines, pipeline rights-of-way, loss of jobs for B.C. trappers and their families, loss of downstream economic opportunities and revenue opportunities for government. The responsibility lies with the fish, wildlife and habitat management branch for fur management. They have zero resources, like I said, to look after this particular thing.

We're asking that this committee give serious consideration to our request to encourage government to increase the budget for the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations to increase the folks they have working in the wildlife habitat management branch
[ Page 2290 ]
to have dedicated fur management resource people working for them. I think we're going to see some significant differences as a result of that.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll begin our questions with Bruce Ralston.

B. Ralston: Thanks very much, Mike. I remember your presentation from last year and the difficulties that you describe and delays or actually non-issuing of permits across the Ministry of Natural Resource Operations. It's a chronic problem that we've heard about, whether it's mining or gravel extraction, right across the piece.

One of the justifications for this committee that I tell people is that when you make a presentation here, it's scrutinized by government, by the ministries. If you have a good case, there is sometimes some movement. In other words, something happens. There's a point to coming here. But I get the sense from what you're saying that absolutely nothing has changed from last year — that despite your very eloquent submission last year, the government hasn't done a thing on this issue.

M. Morris: They are studying it. They have hired a contractor within the wildlife habitat management branch who started work about two weeks ago to study exactly what is needed for furbearer management within the province. But that's as far as we've seen things go.

Actually, the issue dealing with permit authorizations and licence renewals has got considerably worse.

B. Ralston: If I might, one follow-up. A permit application — there's a fee required, so there's revenue for the government in simply the process of issuing the permit. You talk about loss of revenue opportunities. I appreciate that it may be difficult. Can you give some sense of an estimate of lost revenue opportunities?

M. Morris: Well, we look at the royalties that government is currently losing in comparison to 1985 levels. There's no reason why B.C. shouldn't be producing $20 million worth of fur annually instead of less than $1 million worth of fur. There are lost revenue opportunities there.

We only have 1,000 licensed trappers, approximately, out on the land right now. They pay a licence fee every year, an annual licence fee. We could have 3,000 to 4,000 licensed trappers on the land every year, with those included fees.

Then we have the permits that are issued to export fur out of the province and any associated fees with that. There are also included fees by the regional managers declaring the traplines to be abandoned and auctioning off the traplines. I would say there are millions of dollars' worth of traplines available to be auctioned off out there right now. That money would go to government.

P. Pimm: Thanks a lot, Mike, for your presentation. Obviously, I've been very, very involved in this in the Peace country, and I'm probably the one that brought the whole issue right to a head. I will tell you this. There has been lots done. In spite of what my colleague on the other side says, there has been lots done.

In fact, now in the Peace country…. There have been agreements that were in place. I guess I shouldn't really go too far into an explanation here, but there has been lots done. CITES permits, for example — you don't have to have an application each time. Same with assistant guide licences — you don't have to have an application each time. They're done on a quarterly basis, and they're now reported out. That's a huge amount.

There are some major administrative problems between the agreement with the First Nations that was just brought into place, and there's been a lot of work done on that. I'm not going to sit here and listen to the fact that there hasn't been stuff done on it, because I know much better than that.

What I do want to follow up on a little bit is the predator problem. You've touched on it. I can tell you that in our area we've got the trappers, the guide-outfitters, the cattlemen and even the First Nations and the grain growers all together, all saying exactly the same thing, so I know it's a huge problem.

Tell me what you think the solution is to the predator problem. It's huge, and it's not just in my area. It's entirely throughout the province, and it's got to be dealt with.

M. Morris: Increase the number of trappers. It's a little bit more complicated than that. Out of 1,000 trappers, we might only have about 500 that are trapping wolves on an active basis right now.

There's no commercial value for wolves, by the way. I've had some sitting in the auction houses for three or four years without being sold.

How we've combatted that is that we got together with the Guide Outfitters Association. We've got together with the B.C. Cattlemen's Association, the B.C. wild sheep foundation and a couple of other foundations. They provide the B.C. Trappers with approximately $100,000 annually that we have committed towards what we call an ungulate enhancement program.

What we do is encourage trappers to see who can catch the most wolves. They'll get a cash prize from the B.C. Trappers at our annual AGM and convention. We also encourage trappers to skin them at a professional standard, and we provide prizes for whoever skins the wolf in the most professional manner. As a result of that, we had over 500 wolves entered in the program last year, with the cash prizes and prizes in traps and hardware and whatnot.

Again, wolf trapping probably uses up the most expensive hardware and equipment that a trapper has in his arsenal. That's part of the other thing.

Training. The B.C. Trappers developed the canine course, and we've been training ranchers on how to trap wolves. We're going to extend that program to our own trappers throughout the province to those that are interested in learning more about wolf-trapping techniques. I think with all of those combined, we could take a big bite out of the predator problem.

P. Pimm: I'm going to follow up on that. There are two things. We have to identify that there actually is a problem. Then we have to get some money into the hands of people like yourselves and groups so that we can get this problem identified — and fixed.

D. Horne (Chair): I know Pat is very passionate on this. I know he's spent a long, long time on it, and I know he's working very hard on it and continues to work very hard on it.

Unfortunately, we've reached the end of our allotted time. Thank you very much for your presentation.

I'll now move on to our next presenter. Our next presenter is Matt Pearce with the Prince George District Teachers Association. Matt, welcome to the committee. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes
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of questions. Begin anytime.

M. Pearce: All right, thank you. I come before you this afternoon on behalf of nearly 1,000 teachers from the Prince George and District Teachers Association. We teach a little bit over 13,000 students in Prince George, McBride, Mackenzie and Valemount.

The last time we came before your committee was in 2005, and we asked at that time for the committee to revisit the 2003 report of the Task Force on Rural Education. In particular, we asked that committee to revisit three of the key recommendations of that report. I'm going to revisit them today because, to our knowledge, there has been no change in any of those recommendations.

Recommendation 2 was to improve the rural-urban equity of educational outcomes and make that a Ministry of Education priority.

"Among OECD countries, Canada has the worst rural-urban gap with respect to levels of education in the workforce. Canada's rural areas are 'experiencing out-migration, high unemployment and lower incomes.' A well-educated workforce is a necessary precondition to a region's economic growth. Therefore, it is crucial for rural communities, and Canada as a whole, to find ways to narrow the rural-urban gap in education."

Our concern in 2012 is the same as it was in 2005. The per-student funding formula has deprived our rural students of equity of access to course selection, and that's particularly in the secondary schools. In the seven years since we brought this concern to the committee, the situation has only deteriorated. Instead, the focus has been to drive our students into on-line distance education courses, and the success rates have been very low. A lack of direct support to our students has failed them.

It's abundantly clear to us that rural education students need the same support that bricks-and-mortar buildings and professional staff can provide — and do provide to our urban students. The unwillingness of the ministry to recognize this fact has contributed to the depopulation of rural parts of the district. Our populations, of course, are down in Mackenzie, McBride and Valemount.

Since there are no ministry statistics kept on the true success rates…. I'll digress a little bit. The ministry does keep statistics on how students do who complete the courses. They do not keep stats on how students do who start courses, and that's the major failing of statistics. Many, many, many students — the majority of students — drop the course before they complete the course because they do not have the support they need.

One of our counsellors in the Robson Valley decided that since the statistics actually don't reflect the real situation, she would track her students. She did so over a two-year period to get an idea of how it really was working — distance education — for her rural students.

Students began 29 courses, with some students enrolling more than once. These were enrolments because they weren't offered at their schools in those times. Over a two-year period three students completed a course and received credit. That's a success rate of 11 percent. Compare that to an over 80 percent success rate for direct instruction classes, and you can see the disadvantage our rural students are at when compared to our urban students in the district.

Recommendation No. 5 from the report was to work with education partners to build a network of rural education educators and leaders. The past decade has seen the once healthy and respectful relationship between our members and the ministry become quite distant and hostile.

I'll digress again. Our relationship here at the district level is excellent. At the provincial level it's extremely poor. Trust in educational leadership is at an all-time low. My members have over 15,000 years of cumulative classroom teaching instruction and over 5,000 years of university training, and yet we have had little input into the direction of public education in our district over the last decade. We ask that the committee examine ministry policies and procedures that have marginalized the professional opinion of the people who work directly with our students on a daily basis.

Recommendation 13 was to review the funding of rural schools. In 2003 the task force found that the commonly held view was that the new funding formula does not work for rural British Columbia. If this committee took the time to speak to rural parents and educators, we believe that view would only have gained strength in the past decade.

Quality public education is more expensive to deliver in rural B.C., but if we want to maintain communities outside of the urban areas and provide equity of access to educational opportunities, the funding formula must be addressed.

During our most recent acrimonious round of bargaining with our employer we were repeatedly told that the most important factor in improving student learning was the quality of the teaching. While we believe that many factors, such as child poverty, have large impacts on the ability of our students to learn, we agree that quality teaching is very important, and to this end, our members engage in professional development with their peers on a continual basis. In fact, this Friday in our district is a professional development day.

However, it's becoming more and more difficult for our members to get quality professional development opportunities. The funding for our professional development has remained unchanged since 1993, and that's quite some time ago. At that time the amount was set at $150 per member. It's still $150 per member in 2012. If you want to compare how far that goes, at many of the confer-
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ences that we wish to send our members to in the Lower Mainland, where of course most of them are held, $150 is a fairly typical registration fee, let alone for flights and accommodation.

If you want to compare just in our district, our local administrators receive over five times that amount for professional development. We work directly with the students in the classroom, and we don't receive anywhere near that amount. As a result, our professional development has become more and more restricted.

During this past decade district 57 has closed 24 schools, and that's the most of any district in British Columbia by a wide margin. That was done due to declining enrolment but also due to the funding cuts. Nobody can say that our trustees haven't made the tough decisions. They've had a rough time of it, but they've made some really tough decisions that have really kept the focus on providing services to our learners.

However, even after those fiscally sound decisions were made, our students have experienced a real drop in the services that we once provided to them. In particular, the services of non-enrolling specialist teachers have declined in real terms relative to our student population. We have 20 less full-time-equivalent librarians, counsellors and learning assistance teachers, and that's primarily at the elementary level.

Waiting lists for our secondary alternate programs are a sign that learning-assistance cuts at the elementary level have failed our students. Cutting librarians while attempting to become the most literate district in Canada makes little or no sense. And cutting elementary counsellors, who are really front-line mental health workers, is indefensible given the headlines of this past week.

Finally, on behalf of the teachers of district 57, I'd like to address the funding for special needs students. The previous Minister of Education has indicated the ministry will be moving away from IEPs, or individual education plans, for our intellectually, behaviourally and chronic-health-challenged students. We feel that removing these plans is the final step in an abdication of responsibility for supplying the supports for these children, supports that have been steadily eroded over the past decade.

Many of our current IEPs do not have the resources in place to provide what has been promised to our learners and to their parents. Either the province funds what has been promised, or we drop the charade and come clean that we don't intend to address the diagnosed needs of our learners. This will result in legal action from parents against the government, but it's much more honest than what we're currently doing.

Less than a generation ago this province decided that children with significant learning or behavioural challenges should be integrated not just into our schools and resource rooms but into our classrooms. It was the right thing to do, and it came with the support that was required, supports that have been steadily and stealthily removed until we've arrived in 2012. We've now gone full circle to the point where these children will be integrated without supports or even without identification of their needs.

We ask this committee to commit to the funding and identification of our special needs learners so they can be supported in their journey to becoming fully participating citizens in our province. I respectfully submit this on behalf of the 1,000 professional teachers of the Prince George District Teachers Association.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. I have a question on the last point that you made, and that was on special needs and dealing with those. We have, provincewide, 1,400 less special needs teachers than we had ten years ago, and we've replaced that with 12,000 special needs teaching assistants. Is that the wrong approach, in your opinion? Obviously, replacing 1,400 people with 12,000 is a big change and significantly more support. But from what I'm hearing, it doesn't seem to be the right approach.

M. Pearce: I would disagree that it's significantly more support. What we experience here in Prince George is that they advertise for people with the qualifications to become educational assistants. They cannot find those people. Continually, those postings go unfilled, and then they fill them with people without the qualifications. What ends up happening is our students work very closely with people who do not have the training to meet their needs.

That may not be the case in other areas where gaining those qualifications is easier to get, but that's certainly been our experience here. Most of the EAs do not meet the minimum education requirements, and they fill the jobs anyways.

G. Coons: Thank you, Matt, for your presentation. It's interesting. You brought up the Task Force on Rural Education. I was involved in that in 2003 when I was in Prince Rupert teaching. I keep a copy of it close to my desk in Victoria, and I refer to it every so often. I really think that, as we have moved along here in presentations over the last couple of years, we have to do something with the funding formula as far as rural education. I think, as a committee, we've been hearing that loud and clear.

I look back at the special needs situation. I was an alternate education teacher for many years. When I first started teaching in '77, I had a special class that started integrating into the classroom, back in the late '70s, so I understand the whole concept of it seems we're going back to the '70s. The problem is, as you say, finding the trained people, the support networks, in the rural com-
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munities.

I think when we look at the funding formula for rural schools — maybe if you could sort of expand on that for us a bit, some of your ideas.

M. Pearce: What we're seeing at our three rural high schools is that they aren't able to offer the core educational courses every year, and sometimes they're not even able to offer them every other year. When a student in a rural setting wants to take a calculus class or a physics class, they'd like to be able to get that during their time in senior high school. That's not always available to them. Their only resort, then, becomes on line, and the success rates just simply aren't there.

I have a little personal insight into that. My daughter is a grade 12 student in the district this year. She has maintained a 97 percent average across her five years of high school. She's an outstanding student. The only time we ever had to pressure her to work on her school work was when she was taking an on-line course. It was, without a doubt, the worst educational experience of her 13 years in B.C. public schools. That is, to my mind, why most students drop those courses and don't get the credit. Last year we had that happening at our rural high schools, and it continues this year.

M. Dalton: Thanks, Matt, for your presentation. A couple of questions here. One is on your pro-D funding. It's at $150. I was a teacher for quite a few years. All the funding that we received, from my understanding, was actually from our union dues. That's where it came from. If you could comment on that.

Then, of the $75 million that was given this year and next year and the $60 million last year, how much have you seen come here? How is that playing out? I would anticipate it's probably up to about $1 million. I'm not sure.

Then lastly, regarding the cutbacks, my understanding is that there has been a lot more flexibility given to the school district. Right now the ratio is still at 16.5 students, enrolling and non-enrolling, per teacher. That hasn't changed in over a decade. Maybe you can address those different issues.

M. Pearce: Well, I'll address your last one first. Although that statistic hasn't changed, who's included in it has. Previously that statistic included only teachers. Now in the ratio you also include administrators and other staff in the buildings who don't work with students on a direct basis. Therefore, it's a different statistic today than it was just a few years ago.

To your first point about pro-D funding, in 1993 in bargaining between our local association and the board it was decided that the $150 per FTE was money that teachers could use to arrange their professional development. That included travel out of district, flights, accommodation, registration fees.

Of course, that's not nearly enough money, even in 1993, to fly to Vancouver to attend a conference. But we have always pooled our funds, and we send as many members off as we can. We're sending fewer and fewer people every year because the pool of money has simply been eroded by inflation. We don't get all the workshops in Prince George that our members would really need access to, to remain cutting-edge. That's, again, something that challenges districts outside of the major population centres.

That amount of money hasn't changed. In fact, it has shrunk, because we have 300 fewer teachers.

M. Pearce: That's our school district. We have 300 fewer teachers than we did a decade ago, so that pool of money has gone even further.

M. Pearce: The funding that came to our district amounted to about $1.5 million. Some of that was set aside for CUPE in their agreement, which is about $200,000 of that sum. Of the rest of that money, 30 percent was held back and hasn't been spent yet in our district. That was part of the regulation in Bill 22.

The rest of it was spread, as best we could, amongst our 45 schools. But when you're talking less than $1 million and you're talking 45 schools, it didn't go very far. The main thing it was spent on at the elementary level was counselling. We'd lost almost all of our elementary counsellors a decade ago with the funding cuts that occurred in 2002. Now they have been restored one day a week at some schools.

To give you an idea of how great the need is, we have a program here, just getting started, to address the needs of severely behaviour-disturbed children aged six to ten. That program has been created because those needs aren't being met at the school level. The problem with that program is it hasn't started yet because they can't find anyone to staff it with, but we have those needs.

The counsellors. Our schools are very happy to have one day of counsellors. A decade ago they had 2½ days on average, and those services have been cut. Many schools have had none for most of the last decade.

D. Horne (Chair): We've reached the end of our allotted time. I thank you so much for your presentation.
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We'll now call our next presenter, which is PacificSport Northern B.C., represented by Tom, Anne and Craig. I want to welcome the three of you to the committee. As you may or may not have heard, you have ten minutes to present, followed by five minutes of questions. Your ten minutes begin now.

T. Muirhead: Good afternoon. On behalf of the board of directors of PacificSport Northern B.C., we would like to thank you for the opportunity to make this presentation. My name is Tom Muirhead. I'm a member of the board for PacificSport Northern B.C., and I have other roles in the sporting community. The people beside me — Anne Pousette is the president; Craig Noonan is the executive director.

C. Noonan: We appreciate that you have heard from other sport organizations and regional sport centres around the province and have been presented with a commitment by sport leaders to simplify the provincial sector in an effort to provide a better sport system for all with current funding levels. We have been a part of these discussions and echo the messages that have already been delivered.

Today we want to focus on the needs of northern British Columbia with respect to sport and physical activity and to focus on the opportunity for the 2015 Canada Winter Games to leave a sport and physical activity legacy in northern B.C. and the province.

T. Muirhead: In March 2011 PacificSport Northern B.C., together with Minister Shirley Bond and then-mayor Dan Rogers, hosted leaders from across northern British Columbia and the province over two days at the Northern B.C. Community Sport and Physical Activity Roundtable. The goal of the meeting was to explore how, by working together in collaboration across sectors and within multiple stakeholders, we could maximize the opportunity that is presented in hosting the 2015 Canada Winter Games.

We have included the summary report in your package. There are a number of specific goals and opportunities that were identified as desired outcomes of the 2015 Canada Winter Games. These goals were validated by leaders at the reconvening of the round table in September 2011 and reported on at a third meeting in June 2012. Sport development in northern B.C. improved northern B.C. athletes' success, and an improved Team B.C. performance at the 2015 games was identified as an important goal.

A. Pousette: The round table that was held here in Prince George was a very exciting two days for leaders from northern British Columbia and also some leaders from the sport sector and representatives from government in Victoria as well.

Another significant goal that was identified at the round table was the need to create a centre of excellence in northern British Columbia that would enable the delivery of sustainable sport and physical activity service and expertise, education and related services that would ultimately result in a healthier population.

It was a significant goal to take the games and leverage them further and increase the opportunity for sport development and physical activity in relation to the games but, also, to leave a legacy in the future for a healthier northern British Columbia. You're going to hear a little bit more from a formal piece of that initiative later this afternoon in a presentation by the UNBC task force.

In 2½ years northern B.C. will work together to host the nation in Prince George for the Canada Games. This is a once-in-40-years opportunity for British Columbia and probably once in 100 years for northern British Columbia.

I don't know if any of you have been to the Canada Games, but they're very exciting games. You really feel Canadian when you're there. I've had three children go through them, and it's an amazing experience. British Columbia and northern British Columbia, as well as the province, will be very proud when we host these games.

One of the things that makes the games successful is that the people who are hosting, and that's the northern half of this province, have gone together to host these games feeling that they delivered on the goals that they had.

Some of these bigger goals are things that are not encompassed by that infrastructure of getting the games done, that 14-day event, so what we're trying to address is some of those other needs.

C. Noonan: Last year we submitted a written document to the budget consultation outlining the history of northern athletes' challenges and the declining number of northern athletes as a percentage of Team B.C., both in the Winter and Summer games. We provided an overview of a bold 3½-year plan for sport development in northern B.C. — in advance of the 2015 Canada Winter Games — which was based on 2010 and 2011 review reports by the independent sport review panel consultants.

This plan was created to address the goals from the Northern Sport and Physical Activity Roundtable and in response to the challenges and needs in northern B.C. The plan is designed to be pan-northern and to address a developmental and grass-roots need for sport and physical activity in northern communities while developing a strength-in-sport pathway for all participants to achieve their goals for 2015 and beyond.

T. Muirhead: The northern sport development strategy was prepared in the spring of 2011. The efforts to deliver some aspects of the plan since then have been
[ Page 2295 ]
possible through collaboration with a number of stakeholders and funders, but the overall plan has not been able to move forward in a systematic manner. The ability to deliver on the goals of increasing the number of northern athletes on Team B.C. and for B.C. to be number one in the country is dependent upon adequate funding of specific athlete development and initiatives.

We have attached a budget summary which shows the gap between the resources and the budget needed to deliver on the northern sport development plan. If it is the will of the province to see northern athletes make a significant showing in the 2015 Canada Winter Games, we're asking for funding specifically targeted to the delivery of the northern sport development strategy.

We respectfully request that the government review its financial commitments to the 2015 Canada Winter Games and look at the northern sports development strategy in particular, as it has an essential component of the plan for a successful Winter Games for B.C. This is your opportunity to use the catalyst of the 2015 games to inspire youth, to engage families and communities, to use the power of sport to increase physical activity in general, to increase participation in sport, to develop the infrastructure to provide increased sport and physical activity opportunities throughout northern B.C. and to develop the capacity for sustainability beyond 2015.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. Questions from members?

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Hi, thanks for your presentation. Can you outline for me the geographic area in terms of the communities, again, that you represent?

T. Muirhead: We go from the western side of the province, Queen Charlotte Islands, through to…. I guess Tête Jaune is the last community in the east. We go to the Yukon border. We go south to Williams Lake.

C. Noonan: We've provided services or workshops in 29 communities in northern B.C. We have an office here in Prince George and a satellite location in Fort St. John, and we've delivered throughout the entire northern region.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): In terms of identifying the young athletes, how are they identified in terms of who are up-and-comers or who could best avail of workshops and your programs?

A. Pousette: In 2010 we engaged Jacques Thibault and Todd Allinger to survey northern British Columbia, because we were very aware, as the organization trying to support sport, that northern athletes were doing poorer and poorer over the last 20 years in terms of representation on Team B.C. and success at the games.

We started with that. They went out and looked to see what was out there. They went around to the communities engaged with sport groups and community leaders, found what was out there, what was developed, what was not.

We came back in after the round table when there were identified goals that we should do something about this as a part of the games. We went back out through May and June of 2011 and expanded their reach into more communities across more sports.

The package there, I believe, has a summary of a PowerPoint that's a summary of a very large document that's 145 pages long. It has been very thoroughly looked at, and the barriers and deficits and the gaps are quite clearly identified.

This strategy around the games was very much designed to, yes, help some kids who would never probably make the games, but also to then extend that back to all those grass-roots-level coaches in the communities. It would change up northern B.C.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): A last question. Your goal here is for the north to contribute 20 percent of the athletes and coaches to Team B.C. in 2015. Do you have an idea of where it is now?

A. Pousette: It's actually in the package. We're sitting at about 7 percent. In Summer Games, we were 1 percent in the last Summer Games, 3 percent in the one before that, 3 percent the one before that. Historically in winter, if you go back 20 years, we were 20 percent, because we are winter, if you like. We have strong winter sports, and we should represent more than 7 percent. We're geographically 7 percent of the population. We should do better in winter, probably a little bit less in summer, but we're way too low in both, really.

M. Dalton: Thank you very much for your work. I represent one community, Mission. We're going to be having the B.C. Winter Games in 2014. I'm wondering what type of coordination you have with southern B.C. Summer and Winter Games.

A. Pousette: We're actually very integrated in the sports sector, between those. The same services that support athletes…. It's the same pathway. Those athletes who are trying to make it within their regions to represent their region at the B.C. Games are on that same pathway to make it to the…. They're receiving services according to their level of need, and the same with the coaches that are coaching those different levels of athletes.
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We'll move to our next presenter, who is Barb Ward-Burkitt from the Prince George Native Friendship Centre.

Barb, welcome to the committee. As I believe you've heard but I'll repeat again, you have ten minutes to present, followed by five minutes of questions. Your time begins now.

B. Ward-Burkitt: Thank you very much for the opportunity today. My name is Barb Ward-Burkitt, and I'm here today representing the Prince George Native Friendship Centre. I'd first like to follow our protocol and welcome each and every one of you and acknowledge the traditional territory of the Lheidli T'enneh people, upon which we're meeting today.

The purpose of my presentation is to talk about the need for long-term capacity-building within friendship centres. But before that, I'd like to speak a little bit about the Prince George Native Friendship Centre, because that's an important piece of the work that I do.

The Prince George Native Friendship Centre has been in existence for about 43 years. I'm the executive director, and I've actually been involved with the friendship centre movement for a little bit over 40 years. The Prince George Native Friendship Centre is one of 25 member friendship centres in the province. It's the largest friendship centre in all of Canada in terms of our staffing model, our annual budget and the number of programs that we have, as well as the number of properties that we own.

Our friendship centre has about 165 to 200 paid staff, who are auxiliary, part-time and full-time staff, with an annual budget of approximately $12.1 million in the fiscal year ending March 31. We had more than 130 volunteers at the end of our fiscal year, and we tracked more than 14,000 hours of volunteer time from those volunteers in a number of different capacities. We delivered services in the fiscal year ending March 31 to 42,019 clients who walked through our doors from a client's points of service. The number of client contacts over the fiscal year was 365,549.

In terms of our funding, the majority of our funding is provincial funding. About 2 percent of the funding that we access is federal funding, and the rest of it is provincial funding.

The friendship centres across the province leverage about $10 for every dollar received in funding. We do that in a number of different ways, dependent on the friendship centre. In many friendship centres we have commonalities, but there are differences as well, and lots of diversity.

For our friendship centre, we have a large part of our annual funding through our social enterprise. We're at the end of a five-year plan. In this fiscal year ending March 31 we were really, really fortunate to realize, finally, a surplus and the ability to use that funding to do some capital projects and put back into our social enterprise.

We also seek funding from a number of other sources — through grants, foundation funding. One of the things about friendship centres is that our funding is stable and long-term funding, as a result of the quality services that we deliver.

Friendship centres are one of the largest social infrastructure networks for aboriginal people living off reserve. We provide significant resources that, I think, save government money. We're able to provide resources in the areas of health, education and social services — all of those different particular areas.

Friendship centres. I've been around, as I said, for 40 years, and I've seen during that period of time that most friendship centres, certainly in this province, have grown, as there continues to be a need for those services. Yet the funding within friendship centres has not grown at that same level as the friendship centres have.

So we're talking to the standing committee. There are friendship centres throughout the province that you'll be meeting, if you haven't already met some, over the next few days. We're talking about the critical need for long-term annualized capital investment. The number that we've put forward is $3.1 million, which sounds like a lot of money, but when you think of 25 friendship centres with varying needs in a number of diverse communities, maybe it looks a little bit easier to deal with.

There are more and more First Nations people that are moving off reserve as a result of issues that are happening in First Nations — the lack of housing, the lack of employment, the need for First Nations people to access urban communities for health, education, employment and other kinds of things. Friendship centres are at the breaking point in terms of having the resources to continue to deliver those services and offer those supports with our current level of funding and our current staffing models.

An increased investment in aboriginal friendship centres will create huge benefits in social and economic outcomes for aboriginal people. Again, we feel that friendship centres — and, I know, speaking of my own friendship centre — ultimately save the government in health and education costs.

Friendship centres do more with less. For every capacity dollar, as I was saying, we are able to leverage other dollars through our long-term relationships in the province and across Canada, as we're well known and have been around for over 50 years.

Friendship centres enhance the labour market participation in terms of aboriginal people. As an example, in Prince George we employ 200 people, predominantly aboriginal people, which is a huge benefit in our society today, as aboriginal people are B.C.'s youngest and fastest-growing population.

Friendship centres support and improve social and
[ Page 2297 ]
economic outcomes, which then helps to reduce barriers to full participation in our economy.

The B.C. government recently — I believe it was in November — made a commitment through the throne speech to the off-reserve aboriginal action plan. Attached to that, we feel that the $3.1 million…. It really makes sense to have that annualized. That increased investment is something that's certainly needed across the province.

In terms of our friendship centre, it continues to grow, but it's a lot of work. We're able to continue to grow as a result of the quality services that we continue to deliver to urban aboriginal people in this community.

Again, speaking on behalf of that…. I think that I'll close with those comments.

D. Horne (Chair): Barb, thank you for your presentation. For clarification, the $3.1 million in funding for the society overall, that's capacity operational funding. Is that right?

D. Horne (Chair): Okay, perfect. You mentioned capital funding a couple of times, and I was a bit confused. I wanted to clarify that. No problem. That's fine.

We're seeing Paul on Thursday, so I'm assuming…. We've asked a couple of times for a breakdown of the use of proceeds for that and the intended distribution across the network. Hopefully, we'll get that as well.

G. Coons: Thank you, Barb, for your presentation and your description of what's happening here in Prince George. Totally, quite a bit different with the numbers and the number of clients and staff that you have than Smithers and Prince Rupert, which I'm used to. I had an opportunity today to drop into the Smithers friendship centre and take a tour and look at the work they're doing.

I did have questions, but you answered them. You talked about the number of staff that you have, the number of clients, your five-year plan.

I do have a question about the area that you cover as far as dealing with the thousands of clients. What were the top couple of things for your five-year plan?

One other thing. I forgot my moosehide for the moosehide campaign. The last time we met that was, I think, the thing. The moosehide was a movement for aboriginal and non-aboriginal men to support no violence against aboriginal women and children.

Anyway, my two questions: the area that you cover and the top couple of things in your five-year plan.

B. Ward-Burkitt: We cover Prince George proper with some outreach to some First Nations communities, so Lheidli T'enneh, the McLeod Lake Indian Band, Fort Ware and Tsay Keh Dene, which are for the most part fly-in communities. Again, the rest of our services are covered here in Prince George proper.

In terms of our five-year plan, we just went through that particular process with our board of directors in January. Some of the work that we're really looking at in this particular community, that are really huge issues, are issues around homelessness, all of those pieces around poverty and food security and just having a roof over peoples heads. I mean, we're in the north. It gets cold here. When people are on the streets, that's something that we really notice.

The other piece that we're really looking at, as you talked about the moosehide campaign, is that whole piece around domestic violence and violence in the home. We believe really strongly, and we see that firsthand in our community, that domestic violence and violence in the home leads to family breakdown which then leads to children being apprehended by the ministry, to drug and alcohol issues, to involvement with the criminal justice system, to lack of employment and self-confidence, and all of those pieces.

It's a really huge issue, and it's something that we're continuing to work on because we want to help our people to stop that cycle of violence.

M. Dalton: Barb, thank you very much for the work that you do. The fact that this friendship centre here is the largest in Canada says a lot. I'm wondering why it is the way it is, as far as the largest. Also, do you share your expertise with other friendship centres in the province?

Lastly, I'm Métis, so I'm wondering if you have a connection with the Métis community and how they're involved here locally.

B. Ward-Burkitt: Well, I think one of the reasons that we're successful is that we've been able to really diversify our organization. When we've gotten to the point in our particular friendship centre where funding is going to cease in particular programs, we've been able to come up with innovative ideas so that we're not having to be totally reliant on government funding.

We've got a couple of social enterprises, and we're really at the leading edge in terms of friendship centres, I believe, across the province. Our first social enterprise we started about 20 years ago in direct response to the loss of some funding to a program that we felt was really a core need in our community.
[ Page 2298 ]

I think that's part of it — really having to diversify, having to be strategic and also making sure in our friendship centre that we have some core foundational pieces. Culture, having partnerships with the traditional territory, with the chief and council members, working really closely with the city — all of those pieces around partnerships, because we can't do this work by ourselves.

Yes, we do offer our expertise to all kinds of friendship centres. I've shared many of my proposals. I've done workshops with different friendship centres, have gone to some of the northern friendship centres to help them out when they were struggling, have lent my finance people to different friendship centres as well. Again, it's really important that we support each other to do the work that we're doing.

In terms of our partnerships, yes, we do work with the Métis. We work with the First Nations. We work with urban aboriginal people. As I said, it takes all of us doing this work to make things successful.

D. Hayer: Thank you very much, Barb — a good presentation. My question is: do you serve only the Prince George area, or do you serve the towns around Prince George? And what's the total number of customers or clients that you serve every year, on average?

B. Ward-Burkitt: We predominantly serve Prince George. The communities that we do outreach to are actually First Nations communities that are remote communities. Like I said, we deliver services in partnership with the traditional territory, with McLeod Lake and with some northern communities as well.

In terms of our clients, as I said earlier, in our last fiscal year ending March 31 we delivered services to a little over 42,000 people.

B. Ward-Burkitt: Well, the year before we delivered services to about 53,000. The reason for that is that we lost one of our longstanding programs of 25 years. We used to have our own employment services program. After the province centralized those services, we lost our particular service. That made a huge difference in terms of the numbers of people that we delivered services to.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation and for being here today and the work that you do. I'll now call our next presenter.

D. Horne (Chair): Our next presenter is the Initiatives Prince George Development Corp., represented by Dr. Charles Jago and Ken Kilcullen.

K. Kilcullen: Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with you today. My name is Ken Kilcullen. I'm a board member with Initiatives Prince George. I'm joined at the table by Dr. Charles Jago, who is also a board member and part of our executive at Initiatives Prince George. We're here representing our board and our CEO, Heather Oland, who is unable to be in the city today. She's doing some development work outside the province.

We have provided you with a presentation basically in a form that we would normally present on screen. We had a hard copy given to you, if you'd like to follow along, but we have notes to talk to you about today.

A little bit about Initiatives Prince George. We are partnered with our main shareholder, that being the city of Prince George. Our key areas are to facilitate economic growth and diversification, respond to the changing economic context and needs for business in our region, identify the new opportunities and connect business to them. We also facilitate population growth and increase the tax base, thus improving the quality of life for the residents of Prince George. We really see ourselves as a bridge between business and the community of Prince George.

We did have an economic map or graph on the page to show you the employment-industry mix. We're very proud, based on the 2011 statistics, that the industry mix for employment in Prince George has changed substantially from the traditional one-industry town that we've seen over the past number of decades. We see greater opportunities as our area grows — in service, health and education. We're now seeing a more balanced community ready for the next phase of growth in the region.

Prince George is a growing, diversified service and supply hub for industry activities here in northern B.C. The old statistic that we have for you this afternoon is that the 2006-2011 average annual population growth for the city of Prince George was 0.8 percent. Up-to-date information for you: employment growth at 7.1 percent. These are year-to-date numbers for you: home sales up 5 percent; housing starts, 24.3 percent; building permits for the city of Prince George up 69 percent; and the airport traffic for our international airport up 6.3 percent.

We can tell by those numbers that our population numbers are growing as well. As an example, the Prince George employment numbers just this past summer grew substantially. From the end of July to the end of September our employment numbers grew 4 percent for the region.

We did present, on page 5 of the presentation, a map from the B.C. Ministry of Energy, Mines and Natural Gas showing the great potential for industry and resource growth for the region, including the areas of energy, mines, natural gas, forestry, proving the importance
[ Page 2299 ]
of our hub for supplying skilled trades, transportation, equipment manufacturing, professional services, health and education.

One of the areas where we see the greatest opportunity — and no surprise to the province of British Columbia…. Now, following the efforts to electrify the northwest transmission line, or Highway 37, we see great potential for that region northwest of the city of Prince George. The numbers that go with that include $35 billion plus in projects planned or underway currently across the northwest from 2011 to 2014.

We also see another $64 billion in projects highly likely and expected over the next decade for our region. Those include the areas of forestry, mining, oil and gas, utilities, and public infrastructure. Major employment growth will continue directly with those industries, but we're also seeing the influx of new small support businesses that go along with that greater industry growth.

We've had a great partner in the last number of years. The province has been there for our city and for our region. Those investments include the University of Northern British Columbia; the College of New Caledonia; just recently the B.C. Cancer Agency Centre for the North, which is poised to open shortly; the highway infrastructure improvements that we see north to south; Prince George Airport's growth; the Port of Prince Rupert, of course, and our connection to that port; and the northwest transmission line.

However, we see that momentum is critical. This is not an opportunity for the province to stop their investment into our region.

From Initiatives Prince George's perspective, we have three priorities for this committee and the process going forward in budgeting for British Columbia. We see continued infrastructure investment to support increased economic activity throughout the region, including the Cariboo connector. We see that the $200 million planned over the next five years will not complete that twinning of the highway.

We need a plan to complete the four-laning within three years and the Pine Pass to enable B.C. companies to access opportunities in the northeast without having to set up operations in Alberta, in places like Grande Prairie, and hire Albertans to do the work of British Columbians.

We want to see the work on Highway 16 west of our city. It's no secret the northwest region is expected to see exponential growth in traffic related to mining development and other industries. We need a plan for four-laning to begin within the next three years because that will be the greatest amount of traffic for our city and our region in the next number of years.

Utilities. We need to continue the expansion and the availability of clean, reliable electricity to facilitate development with the billions in anticipated projects to be completed in the northwest, especially…. An example being the northwest electrification project and the amount of money that's available for the region in growth and, of course, for the province.

We encourage the province to continue to support initiatives in telecommunications and connecting the smaller remote communities of northern British Columbia through wireless technology and fibre.

Our second priority is skills training for the north in the high-demand occupations — career training where jobs are located. We'd like you to remove the barriers to labour force development. P.G. is a hub for many services, and we see that as a hub for education and training for skilled labour and an engineering program for our university.

Our third priority is community infrastructure. Livability is critical to the sustainability of our city. If Prince George is going to support economic growth throughout northern B.C., we need to attract businesses, leaders and labour on pace with the proposed economic growth.

Of course, we need partners to make that happen. Investments in our community infrastructure will allow the city to attract people to the community — not just for the job. Most of us came to Prince George because of the job, but we'd sure like to see somebody come to the city, to choose to come to Prince George to live with their families, and then look for work.

We encourage the B.C. government to move ministry jobs specific to transportation, forestry, mining and economic development to be located here in this region. It would better connect the government with the activity, increase the responsiveness to facilitate opportunities for industry and be more effective and efficient.

That's our presentation, and I'll open the floor to questions for myself or Dr. Jago.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll begin our questions with Bruce.

B. Ralston: It's great to hear your enthusiasm for the University of Northern British Columbia. I agree that it has, since it was inaugurated by the government in the mid-1990s, really transformed Prince George.

One of the recommendations of the committee over the years has been that a mechanical engineering course be developed here. We heard this morning in Smithers a representative of Imperial Metals, Byng Giraud, suggest that, for mining engineering and geology, UNBC might be a logical home for that as well, given the centrality of mineral and mining exploration here in northern British Columbia.

C. Jago: The simple answer is yes. There's a speaker behind me, I think, speaking for the chamber, Bill McGill, who can address those issues. He has been directly involved. And there's a presentation this evening, I believe, from the chair of UNBC, who can address those issues.

There already is an engineering program — environmental engineering, in partnership with UBC — but what is needed is to expand that into engineering programs that are directly related to the resource-based industries: wood products, mining, geological sciences, oil and gas.

All of those areas are areas now of significant skill shortages in northern B.C., not just in the Prince George area. Launching an engineering program in those related fields would be, I think, timely.

J. Les: Thank you for your presentation. I've long been an admirer of Initiatives Prince George and your accomplishments. You've got your three priorities, two of which really are about more investment in infrastructure and then, further, more development of skills training.

I was wondering if you had any suggestions or recommendations with respect to the fiscal or taxation policies of the province and how they might be adjusted, or not, to further incent more economic activity in the province and, especially, in this area.

K. Kilcullen: Well, I think that that is absolutely necessary to continue the momentum for the development of industry coming to the province and the security of investment. How that shapes up, I'm not sure if I can answer the question, but Charles, you can.

C. Jago: It's not part of our brief, but I think maintaining a healthy fiscal environment is absolutely essential, and using public funds to invest in infrastructure, as we have suggested, is important. The role of government is to enable economic development, to facilitate it.

The recommendations that we're bringing forward are brought forward in that vein. Related to that is a healthy fiscal environment within which companies can develop.

K. Kilcullen: From our perspective, in our brief it was positioned as a return on investment. The investment that happens in this region as we move forward will pay back, as it has done over history. We're seeing some of that even in the immediate past, of what we've done as far as the province's investment into infrastructure within our community already.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks for your presentation. With respect to your second priority — to develop skills training, and you outlined the advantages and the practicalities of developing and expanding engineering programs to connect and support resource expansion and other activities — you mentioned, as well, removing barriers to labour force development. Did you have other suggestions or other issues?

K. Kilcullen: With that, our concern is in the issue of — and this is some practical, on-the-ground, anecdotal hearing from employers in the region who are dealing with the issue of skilled labour, particularly those that are in the trades — having education or a portion of their education being held outside the region and having to go to Vancouver for the education training.

There are a couple of barriers. There are barriers of the cost for family and business from the region. Having to send those employees down to complete their education in their programs is a barrier. The barrier we see is with the education being far from their families. We see, certainly from the aboriginal community perspective, that we miss an opportunity to bring the education and the trades and skilled labour opportunities to them, closer to where they're living. That, along with poaching potential that happens in other markets when they go away for their training, is a serious issue for us.

We really have seen an example through UNBC where the training locally within the region can make a difference economically and from the family's perspective as well. That's really where we're going, from the issue of barriers to skills training in the region.

C. Jago: Yeah, and if I can congratulate your government, because you've made major investments in education here. I'm talking about the northern medical program, expansion of nursing, lab technician program, radiography program at CNC. I've just come from two days of meetings with Northern Health. I chair the board of Northern Health. Those training programs have given Northern Health services a stability that they did not have a decade ago.

Essentially, we're looking to apply the same thinking to economic development. We're dealing with a resource economy that requires highly skilled people, and if we don't have those people here…. I mean, we can recruit, to a degree, but the movement of people from south to north is lamentably poor. Frankly, we have to be provided with the resources to bring people here for education, to keep people here for education and to be able to supply the skills that these industries need.

The development of these industries is of crucial importance to the well-being of the province. It's not just the north. We live in a province that is heavily resource-dependent, so it is critical that these needs be addressed and barriers removed.
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P. Pimm: Thanks a lot for your presentation. It does sound exciting, and I know it's exciting in our region as well. In fact, I think we're probably the driver of a lot of this excitement. For every dollar that's spent here — and you show lots of dollars here — there's about $10 on the upstream spent on the natural gas industries. Our area is cooking as well.

I want to focus a little bit on you talking about the skills training and how you think that it should be centralized in Prince George. Can you comment a little bit more on that for me? And how do you propose that folks from Fort St. John, Fort Nelson and those areas are going to cope with that kind of a situation?

C. Jago: Well, Pat, I, for one, am not talking about centralizing in Prince George. It's a northern issue, so the connection between Northern Lights College, Northwest Community College, UNBC and CNC is critical.

We're talking about not just a Prince George strategy. Initiatives Prince George has always had the habit of speaking for northern B.C., not just for Prince George.

The requirements for skilled labour that we're talking about are across the north. They're by no means confined to Prince George.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you both for your presentation today and for being with us.

D. Horne (Chair): I'll now call our next presenter, being the Prince George Chamber of Commerce. Bill, Bill and Jennifer, welcome to the committee. I'll repeat it once more. You have ten minutes to present, followed by five minutes for questions. Your time begins anytime.

J. Brandle-McCall: Thank you, and good afternoon. My name is Jennifer Brandle-McCall. I'm the CEO of the Prince George Chamber of Commerce. I'd like to introduce the other members of our chamber that we have with us today: our president, Dr. Bill McGill, who is also a professor in science and ecosystem management; as well as Bill Quinn, who is the president of NuStride Executive Coaching but is also one of our directors.

To start off, a little bit about our chamber of commerce. We have almost 900 members at our chamber. We're the fifth-largest chamber of commerce in British Columbia, so considered a large chamber among the chamber community, and we are growing. We've got a large business community that we serve here, very proudly. We look forward to future growth as well.

I'd like to start by acknowledging some of the past investments and successes that we certainly appreciate within our chamber and I know our community appreciates as well.

You'll see in our presentation that I've noted some of those, which include investments that the provincial government has made into B.C.'s post-secondary infrastructure in the last year at the University of Northern British Columbia as well as the College of New Caledonia.

We're also happy to see that there's been investment in research in support for housing in northern British Columbia, in northern communities; in new training programs through First Nations and forestry; and investments in training equipment into the post-secondary institutions around the province, one of which will benefit the College of New Caledonia.

We're very pleased to see investments in funding for the integration and attraction of skilled immigrants to our area, as well as new skills-training programs in northern B.C.

The improvements to the medical education facility at UHNBC and the investments into the Canada Winter Games have also helped our area. We look forward to what those opportunities will bring. There are a couple of others noted.

I'd like to move into a description of how we are approaching our presentation this evening — which is really to look at some common core principles that any decision with regards to budgeting could be made, rather than a wish list or a series of asks for expenditures. The Prince George Chamber of Commerce believes that investments in the future of the region are best guided by these core principles. We also recognize that there's a connection between the economic bottom line and the social and environmental bottom lines.

In the context of those observations, we hope to offer this set of principles to you, as well as examples that are in no particular order, as our advice to the select standing committee in making your budgeting decisions.

B. McGill: Colleagues, I'm pleased to be here and thank you for allowing us this opportunity to speak with you.

The first principle that we would like to address is balancing the budget before undertaking new expenditures. We continue to recommend that any new revenues should be first be applied toward further reducing the deficit in anticipation of the balanced budget facing the province in 2013.

Principle 2 — community sustainability and business stability require economic diversification around areas of strength. This is basically seconding what Initiatives Prince George has been speaking about.

After people, our natural resources are our main assets. Forestry, mining, oil and gas and agriculture are traditional sectors that have contributed in the region. Continued support for economic diversification during
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transformation of the forest sector is critical.

Principle 3 — support businesses through effective infrastructure and workforce both locally and regionally. We recommend building upon past achievements to hasten completion of the electrification of Highway 37, upgrades to Highways 97 and 16 and to improve broadband access with reduced cost of delivery to the last mile in rural and remote regions.

We recognize the success of B.C. in developing the natural resource sector in this region. Such developments create opportunities for families and for businesses in the region. Associated with that is the need for a stronger and larger population to meet those needs and to take on the jobs that are thus created.

We would strongly encourage growing that population. Such growth requires attention to regional recruitment and retention, coordination with businesses, key industries and communities and the provision of appropriate amenities. Such amenities include education, health care and government services complemented by transportation, energy and electronic communication infrastructure.

In terms of principle 4 that we have, it's that education and skills development in Prince George region are key foundations. You heard that with the IPG presentation just before us. Our civil, robust society and sustainable business environment require people with knowledge, skills and attitudes needed to contribute to the central and northern parts of B.C.

Our experience has been — and I even have a daughter in the medical program — that people that are educated in the north have a much higher tendency to stay in the north. Being able to expand that out to some of the key areas that we're now needing, where we're finding there's a shortage, in terms of expanding our education and technology training has been put by our chamber members in a survey from 2011 as one of the high priorities as part of our education needs — civil and mechanical engineering at UNBC or the civil mechanical mining technologies at CNC. Also, this needs to be complemented with that reinvigorated side of the apprenticeship program. I'm sure you're getting these themes all the way through.

Then there's also the idea around the K-to-12 system that serious efforts are needed to be able to provide a more effective balance of participation between science and math courses on one hand and alternative offerings on the other. The idea is that kids are not just fed: "Oh, you need to go to university" or "You need to go to college." There are a lot of other things out there for them. Attaching that part into the K-to-12 system would be awesome.

Also, principle 5 is that healthy communities are necessary for healthy businesses. In a previous survey chamber members also…. Respecting their priorities, 76 percent described health treatment centres and access to medical services as very important. The other thing is that this is an important aspect of any of our recruitment when we're dealing with people and wanting to get them up here. They always take a look at that.

The chamber is very supportive of some of the recent activities that have happened, including the physician recruitment round table that goes on here, the recent advances in health care delivery and the poverty-reduction pilot program that was just announced a little while ago. Even with these activities, we're still faced with unattached patients in the neighbourhood of 15,000. So we've still got a fair bit of work to go to move on with that.

Continued emphasis on healthy life choices, active lifestyle opportunities and mental health support are recommended as being considered as part of a healthy community.

The last principle, principle 6, is an efficient settlement of land claims in a fair, just manner. Once the Cohen Commission is completed, everybody needs to get back to the treaty table and start getting our land claims settled in a very expeditious manner that's fair for all. Also, we need to provide an encouraging field where industry and First Nations can cooperate in a much more succinct manner.

Some of the examples are the Pacific Trail Pipelines and the First Nations relationships that have been working very well together. If we can continue to develop some sort of opportunities in there, that would really help the north.

J. Brandle-McCall: To wrap up, as a chamber we're very excited about what the possibilities are for northern B.C. and for our city as well. We also recognize that there are some challenges, particularly in the labour area and attracting, recruiting and retaining people to our area to help fuel the economic burn that's going to be happening and all the projects that are on the horizon. But we do understand it is a time of financial constraint as well.

We urge the government to focus on the needs as well as wise investments rather than optional wants. We applaud you for having this consultative process that we are engaged in, and we wish you good luck on developing your budget for 2013. We'd love to take some questions if you have any.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll start our questions with Dave.

D. Hayer: Thank you very much. A very good presentation. I served on Surrey Board of Trade as president back in '96-97 and B.C. Chamber of Commerce. It's a
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very balanced presentation.

My question is regarding…. You talk about, in your principle 1, a balanced budget, and you talk about that new revenue should first be applied toward further reducing the deficit and so on. Some of the presenters we had — including teachers associations, BCTF and a few of the politicians — have said that government should look at increasing personal income taxes on people making high income, maybe $100,000 and up or $70,000 and up. Other ones have said the corporate taxes have gone too far down over the last ten years. They think it's gone down by 35 to 40 percent.

When you talk about new revenues, are you talking about maybe increasing the taxes? Do you think that will generate net new revenues for the government? Or will that have a negative effect on investment and the total revenue of the province? What is the chamber's point of view on that?

We don't anticipate or have not developed our ideas based on a particular view of how taxes ought to be levied. Taxes are indeed one mechanism by which the province receives revenue. Revenues from natural resources is another. We certainly appreciate that revenues from forest sector have declined substantially recently. We're hoping that there are new upticks in some of the other resource areas to help compensate for that.

With regard to taxation, we have no firm position on whether it should be more income taxes or more taxes of some other form. I think a balanced approach to taxation is important. Beyond that, we wouldn't have much comment.

D. Hayer: One clarification. From your experience, do you think that when you increase the taxes, investors come running to the province and invest there, or usually do they run away to the other places where they might have a better tax system? Do you think the province always has to have a competitive tax rate, or is it better to have higher taxes and think you may be able to generate more revenue, as has been tried in the past? Some of the results might have been much different than what we've seen over the last five or six years especially, then.

J. Brandle-McCall: I think there's something to be said for creating an overall positive climate for economic activity to happen within. I think having a low corporate tax policy is good for investors, and it's over a longer term so that they have something that they can count on and that they know that there's a bit of a track record there. There's a positive climate overall. I think people are more willing to put their dollars where they feel it's going to be beneficial to them. So a good climate overall is what I would suggest.

B. Ralston: I was looking at principle 1 on balancing the budget. That's something that I agree with as well. But in the present context the Minister of Finance reported, when we began this process, that in this budget year, as we look at the budget that we're preparing, natural gas revenue has declined dramatically. You mentioned forest revenue. It was as high as $1.5 billion. It's now about $300 million a year.

One of your colleagues in the business world, Jock Finlayson of the B.C. Business Council, said that he doesn't think it's practical to balance the budget in the coming year.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that, but I'd be interested in your point of view, given that you appear to have enunciated a fairly hard principle here about balancing before undertaking any new expenditures.

B. McGill: The principle of balancing the budget…. I don't know how hard you mean that hard is. Certainly, for several years now the Prince George chamber has held the view that balancing the budget is a top priority. That continues to be our view, and we're reluctant to see that eroded any further than it really has to be.

B. Ralston: I understand the principle, but it appears that the practical reality may be that it's not possible. Notwithstanding the balanced-budget legislation, the Minister of Finance has come before the House on two previous occasions and asked for permission to run a deficit.

How important is this principle to you? Do you see that in order to avoid $1 billion in budget reductions in the coming year, it might be necessary to run a deficit, as Mr. Finlayson has suggested?

J. Brandle-McCall: I think that while there are certain industries that are experiencing a decline in overall success, there are others that can step up to the plate and fill the gap. I think there's great potential in mining, and there's great potential in innovation and technology and other areas that could be brought up even further to definitely help replace that void.

I would also concur with Bill McGill that a balanced budget is the ultimate desire, and we wouldn't waver from that if it was possible.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for that. It appears that members on both sides aren't getting the
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answers they're looking for. I thank you for your presentation, and I will move to our next presenter.

Our next presenter is the B.C. Dental Association, represented by Jocelyn Johnston and Dr. Richard Wilczek. Welcome, both. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions, and your time begins now.

R. Wilczek: Thank you very much for this opportunity for the B.C. Dental Association to appear before this Select Standing Committee on Finance. The B.C. Dental Association is a recognized voice of dentistry in British Columbia, representing over 3,100 general practice dentists and specialists.

Dentistry contributes about $1.8 billion to the economy of B.C. and directly employs about 15,000 health professionals. The BCDA and the provincial government have partnered on many initiatives throughout the years to enhance patient care, improve access to dental care and educate the public on important oral health issues, such as a $2.5 million on an early childhood caries campaign that ended in 2009.

I would like to first start by thanking the government for extending the admitting and discharge privileges to oral and maxillofacial surgeons. This change will not only enhance patient care but extend the valuable resources and increase efficiencies within B.C.'s health care system.

I want to first start by addressing the wait-list for patients with dental facial anomalies. Patients with dental facial anomalies, cancer survivors and those with syndromes such as ectodermal dysplasia suffer not only medical effects of their conditions but also from facial deformities.

Through our charity event, we raised over $120,000 in conjunction with AboutFace and the B.C. Cancer Agency to address the current backlog of childhood survivors of cancer. What remains is a considerable backlog of ectodermal dysplasia patients and adult survivors of head and neck cancers requiring facial prosthetics, as funding has fallen far short of the need. Together with the Ministry of Health, B.C. Cancer Agency and the B.C. Children's Hospital and VGH dental services, we are working to eliminate the wait-list.

Again, I would also like to thank the government for reducing the ultimate limitations period from 30 years to 15 years. While we appreciate the reduction of the limitation time period, you should know that the benefits of this change will not be realized for another 15 years after the enforcement date of June 1, 2013, due to the transition clause.

What are dentistry's issues? Let's begin with seniors. Dental disease is progressive and may become more complex with age. Seniors face increased frailty, limited mobility and medications that can accelerate dental decay and gum disease. Without preventative care, dental conditions can lead to pain, infection, bleeding and even hospitalizations.

Seniors in long-term-care facilities are most at risk from neglected dental care as these folks are reliant on others for daily care and for professional care. A recent B.C. Ombudsman report on long-term care stated the following barriers: the financial challenges patients face to receive dental care, the lack of accountability in maintaining standards with respect to mouth care and limited access to regular professional care provided by dentists and hygienists.

The Premier's Council on Aging and Seniors Issues called for a low-income dental plan for seniors, which was estimated to cost approximately $24 million. We support the introduction of this type of dental plan. In our view, the need is similar to that which led to the province's Healthy Kids program, which provides basic dental care for children of low-income families.

We also recognize the financial difficulties that government faces. An alternative option is a dental plan for seniors in long-term-care facilities that would be palliative in nature and would target funds where the need is the greatest. It is estimated that this would cost about $6 million annually.

Also noted in the Ombudsman's report were administrative challenges in providing dental care to patients in long-term-care facilities. There are solutions to assist dental practitioners in working with patients and their families to facilitate treatment when needed.

Here in Prince George a dental coordinator position was created by Northern Health to do the administrative work, such as scheduling, coordinating and assisting delivery of dental care in long-term-care facilities. These tasks often frustrate and discourage dentists and other oral health providers from treating in the facilities.

This model could be replicated across the province and be expanded to support care aides in providing daily care or triaging potential dental problems. The BCDA, in conjunction with the UBC dental school, is willing to support these efforts.

Other ways we can improve access to dental care. Vulnerable groups also face challenges in accessing care: the working poor, those on social assistance and the disabled. To address this growing problem, dentists and community groups have created 15 not-for-profit clinics across B.C. and more are currently in the planning stages. We are fortunate to have one of these clinics in Prince George, the only one north of Kamloops, and it is open two evenings a month.

It is estimated that these clinics treat about 3,000 patients a month, providing emergency pain relief and basic services such as hygiene, fillings and dentures. Most rely on volunteer and salaried dentists. These clinics rely on billings of the Ministry of Social Development to subsidize the care for the working poor who have no government or private dental coverage.

Unfortunately, the fees for the Ministry of Social
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Development dental plan have not increased since 2007, although inflation has increased by 8 percent and dental fees overall went up by 13 percent. The ministry fees are now well below 60 percent of standard dental fees, the second lowest in Canada.

An ongoing concern for all non-profit clinics are the patients who receive emergency extractions but cannot afford the lab fees for dentures. For a dental office these are flow-through expenses, because dentures are made in outside labs. The lab fee for a set of dentures is between $700 to $800 — prohibitive for many individuals. With few or no teeth, these individuals face huge barriers to employment.

The BCDA is requesting an increase in the Ministry of Social Development fees to improve access for ministry clients and to allow the not-for-profit clinics to treat more patients who are falling through the cracks. Even an annual grant of $10,000 for each of these 15 clinics, totalling $150,000 a year, to cover lab fees would assist them in providing dentures for those who cannot afford these costs.

Access for children and the disabled. The government's community partners program funds private facilities around the province to provide treatment under general anaesthesia for children and the disabled, covered by the ministry's dental programs.

There has been no increase in funding since this program started in 2003. This has resulted in only a few facilities remaining open in Vancouver and increased wait-lists for dental surgery across the province, including six months at the B.C. Children's Hospital and up to two years at VGH for the disabled.

Children on hospital wait-lists whose conditions become urgent present to the emergency rooms instead. B.C. Children's Hospital saw a fourfold increase in ER visits for dental emergencies from 2005 to 2011.

We ask the Ministries of Health and Social Development to enhance funding for this program to improve access to care and reduce the demand on hospital ORs and emergency room service for dental care.

There's also a need for better information on the status of British Columbians' oral health. In 2009 the federal dental health officer undertook a Canadian oral health measures survey on all ages across Canada which only included three sites in B.C. When compared to the results of the BCDA's last adult dental health survey in 2006, the national survey results show a disturbingly higher rate of decay, both treated and untreated, in adults.

Without understanding the oral health needs of the population, many of the issues I discussed earlier could become larger problems, especially for the health care system. The urgency is even greater with the aging population, ironically, for a condition — dental disease — that is preventable.

To better understand the oral health needs of our province, the BCDA supports conducting a more extensive oral health measures survey in B.C. We are prepared to contribute $100,000 to this project. The national dental health officer has committed to providing $200,000 in in-kind services such as examiners and technical support. We are seeking $300,000 from the provincial government to finance the remaining portion of the survey.

The survey would also provide data on children six and older, for which there is currently little information available, except through public health kindergarten screening programs. This new information would broaden our understanding of childhood dental disease and what is leading to higher decay rates in adults.

As the first province to conduct such a study, this would make B.C. a leader in oral care. We urge the government to join us in this project.

Thank you for your time. The BCDA is committed to the oral health of British Columbians, and we welcome the opportunity to work with the government in this regard. I welcome any questions you may have.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll begin our questions with Bruce.

B. Ralston: You have a program where you have the local dentists come and visit an MLA and explain these issues. I think that's a very effective program, because it brought to my attention some of these issues that I was not at all aware of.

The dental facial deformities — that's almost a human rights issue. I wasn't aware of it. I think that might be something that we should….

R. Wilczek: I was going to say that we should have brought some pictures. They would have been very graphic. These patients….

My question, though, is that I appreciate the information about low-income clinics, but where does the Healthy Kids program fit into this scheme? I know that is one program that the government does have, which is targeted at preschool and school-aged children, which seems to me to be a good place to start.

J. Johnston: Actually, it covers children under the age of 18 whose families qualify for MSP premium assistance. I hesitate to give a number, but I think under 200,000 children are covered in that program. That's a Ministry of Social Development program. It's the same fee schedule.

B. Ralston: If I might, then the same limitations that you've spoken of — 60 percent below — apply.
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J. Johnston: The only difference between that program and a program for a child whose family is on social assistance is the child is eligible for orthodontic care, but it's difficult to qualify for that program.

J. Slater: On the B.C. Children's Hospital program, you say that we've had a fourfold increase. Is it because these other clinics are shutting down on the availability of other dentists to work on these kids? Is that why it's fourfold?

J. Johnston: I wish it was as easy as that. There are a lot of issues going around about that — the fact that the community partners program was funding across the province. Those clinics haven't shut down, but they no longer participate in the program. We used to have children….

There were clinics in Victoria, Kamloops, right across the province, but because there has been no increase in funding, the number of clinics that are willing to participate in the program is down to the four on the Lower Mainland. There's no access outside of the Lower Mainland. Some of those kids are coming to Children's Hospital, but we also remember that Children's Hospital is the largest place for children with, we say, co-morbidities or other conditions that perhaps make it difficult for them to be treated in a dental office. Children's Hospital has quite a few.

We're actually funding a study, in conjunction with some government funds we have, to look at what is going on with the OR at Children's Hospital. Some preliminary data seems to indicate that they're accepting high-risk kids from right across the province. What you're seeing here in the emergency room are the ones who aren't getting care until their face is swelling up with cellulitis.

J. Slater: I guess my point is that if you make less than $30,000 a year, you get MSP subsidies. Are these kids that are going there, going there for that reason — because they do get subsidized on some of their issues?

J. Johnston: No. Some of those kids don't qualify in that program. Premium assistance is family, I think, at $38,000. You have a lot of kids…. That's a family of four. Some kids may be falling into there. We have a large immigrant population. We've also seen a higher incidence of decay in that group as well.

R. Wilczek: If I can just add that some of the children we can't treat in a regular dental office. They're either too hard to handle, or the situation…. We have to handle them in an OR facility, and it's our access to the OR facility that's the problem.

D. Horne (Chair): Unfortunately, we've reached the end of our allotted time. I thank you so much for your presentation.

I will, actually, while I've got you here, ask one quick question. Bruce was mentioning as well, I think, that the dental program works well, with dentists coming to members' offices. Actually, one of the things that the dentist who came to my office mentioned to me, as well, was treating spouses. That's an issue you didn't mention in your presentation, but do you believe that's important?

R. Wilczek: It is very important. We've had a tradition of treating spouses since time immemorial. We don't see it as an abuse issue. It's been the standard of practice for many years. The only other province that has that is Ontario.

J. Johnston: We should say that in Ontario there has been a government committee that has reviewed their legislation and sent a recommendation back that…. Quickly, for those who may not be aware of it. The way the regulation says it is that you cannot treat anyone with whom you're having sex. That infers your spouse, and we think that perhaps wasn't the intent of the legislation. But in Ontario it goes a step further and says that you have to have a five-year mandatory suspension.

In B.C. we don't have the suspension, but Ontario is relooking at it. Their committee, the Health Professions Review committee — I believe that's its name — has suggested that it should be left to the discretion of the regulatory body, because physicians actually very much support not treating family members and such.

We're waiting to find out what the Ontario government's decision is, in which case, if they agree with their committee, they'll redraft the legislation. Since the B.C. legislation is based on the Ontario legislation, that would be a good case for us, but the past Health Minister was quite adamant that he wasn't anticipating any changes in this regard. We've tried to pick the best way forward and are waiting to hear. But thank you very much for asking.

D. Horne (Chair): I'm sorry that we took us off topic there for a sec, but thank you for that.

I will now call the next presenter, being the Faculty Association of the College of New Caledonia. Welcome to the committee. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions, and you can begin anytime.

J. Mastromatteo: Good evening, and welcome to Prince George. My name is Jan Mastromatteo, and I'm currently the vice-president of the Faculty Association of the College of New Caledonia here in Prince George.

We have approximately 400 full- and part-time members who work and teach for the college both here in Prince George and in our various satellite campuses throughout this region. We appreciate the opportunity to detail some of the concerns about post-secondary edu-
[ Page 2307 ]
cation in general and, in particular, funding challenges we face at our college.

By way of introduction, let me give you some context. The College of New Caledonia is the oldest public post-secondary institution in Prince George.

We have an enrolment base of close to 5,000 students. It's a diverse mix of students, including those who are direct transfers — by that I mean students who have graduated from high school and are heading directly to post-secondary — as well as adult learners who are looking to make career changes but need to either get the necessary prerequisites to do that or complete grade 12 to enter certain program areas.

That last point about adult learners needs to be stressed because, increasingly, colleges like ours are the places where adult learners get the opportunity to restart their careers or expand their learning opportunities. CNC provides a critical path for these students.

We pride ourselves on developing outreach and access points for these learners because we know that, for them, adjusting to the experience of post-secondary education is a fine balance, one that has to acknowledge the pressures of family commitments and ongoing employment, in many instances, and all this while meeting the demands made of them in the classroom.

We also pride ourselves on being an institution that's committed to bridging gaps that may exist between the high skill demands of employers in this region and how those demands can be filled by students living here. To fill those gaps, we provide a variety of certificates, diplomas and associate degrees, as well as full apprenticeship programs.

These program areas are extensive. Let me give you a few examples. We have a number of business diploma and certificate programs, including accounting and finance, applied business technology and business administration. We have an extensive list of health programs, such as the northern collaborative baccalaureate nursing program, practical nursing, medical radiography, medical lab technology, dental hygiene, dental assisting programs and a health care assistant program.

We also deliver a number of programs designed to support the natural resource industries in this region. We have worked with industry and community representatives to develop the mining certificate program. It's a great example of how we're adapting program offerings to match the needs and opportunities in this region.

It's a bit disconcerting, I might add, that the intent of our program — training learners from this region for employment prospects in the region — doesn't square with what other branches of government are doing.

The latest example of that disconnect is the foreign temporary workers who are being brought in to develop coal mining in this region. All of us connected to the mining certificate program are left scratching our heads when we think about all the effort that was put into developing the program and promoting it with students in this region and then try to square that effort with the fact that the provincial and federal governments are using a different program to fill the jobs that were the impetus behind our certificate program in the first place. Something's amiss.

Despite this disconnect, the point I want to emphasize is that CNC provides a critical path to knowledge, skill and career development for thousands of students. We know from research that public investments like that provide direct benefits to the provincial treasury, benefits that come in the form of higher incomes, increased labour mobility and lower unemployment. Most of that research has been documented by the Canadian Council on Learning, and we will provide you with links to this research in our electronic submission.

Like other post-secondary institutions across B.C., CNC faces some major challenges when it comes to funding. Early this year CNC's president, John Bowman, joined with 24 other post-secondary institution presidents to take the very unusual step — I would even go so far as to say unprecedented — of publicly releasing a letter that they sent to Minister of Advanced Education Naomi Yamamoto, the then minister.

The letter was written after the 2012 budget was tabled. For post-secondary institutions the budget projected a drop of about $70 million in the annual operating grants.

Let me read to you, and into the record, a key point that the presidents raised in the second paragraph of that letter: "It's critical for government to understand that the $70 million reduction to institutional grants over the last two years of the fiscal plan, combined with five years of unfunded inflationary pressures, creates a strain on the operations of the post-secondary institutions."

What the funding squeeze looks like at CNC is cuts to program offerings we provide, cuts to student support services and cuts to faculty. Let me itemize some of those impacts in reverse order.

In this current budget year we've seen 13 faculty positions eliminated. I might point out as well that one of the sore points in the faculty cutbacks has been the fact that there has been no similar cutback in administration. In fact, we've actually seen a slight increase in those numbers.

When it comes to student support services, the trend line has been moving down. Today's students have access to fewer counsellors and advisers, a change that leaves students trying to make key career decisions without the help of staff who can direct them towards better solutions.

The most significant impact of the funding squeeze has been on programs and course offerings. To date, because of the funding crunch, CNC has cancelled programs in computer information services, geographic information systems, electronics as well as engineering design technology, wood technology and wood manufacturing, and
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a business incubator program.

This fall we've been told students enrolled in another technology program, new media communications and design, will have their program changed from a two-year diploma program to a one-year certificate offering. The effect of the last cut is that students who were expecting to graduate with a diploma now have to settle for less than that, a change that will certainly disrupt their career planning.

We know that CNC's funding problems are not unique. Across the entire post-secondary system the dollars that post-secondary institutions receive in the form of operating grants are not keeping pace with demand or inflation.

The latest estimate is that we have seen real, per-student operating grants drop by 9 percent since 2001. Add to that the fact that students have to pay much higher tuition fees and are taking on greater levels of student debt to pay those higher fees, and the picture that emerges is one where access and affordability are under siege.

The B.C. Business Council tells us that 75 percent of all new jobs will require some form of post-secondary education or training. Underfunding and higher student debt are not prescriptions for skills development, knowledge creation or innovation.

The provincial government recently announced an additional $75 million on trades training and technology. I will admit one thing: the announcement did include some positive changes. That is a step in the right direction, but there are details in the announcement that worry us.

Most of the money in that announcement doesn't come into play this year. In fact, much of the funding doesn't come into effect until 2014. The problem of underfunding is immediate, and waiting for another year and a half or longer to get attention on this doesn't make a lot of sense in our view. If we are serious about putting money into post-secondary education, the place to start is the budget. The 2012 budget didn't include that kind of support.

What the announcement did promise immediately, which we fully support, is the funding of 15 coaches to help counsel apprentices and ensure that they complete their apprenticeships. In 2001, under the Industry Training Apprenticeship Commission, or ITAC, an undertaking that the current government disbanded, we had over 125 counsellors who were there to make sure that apprentices were registered, supported by an employer and were released from work to do their six to eight weeks of classroom training every year.

It's no coincidence that once those counsellors were gone, completion rates fell, and many of the problems we see in trades training today began to take root then.

The fact that the government is at least acknowledging its mistake in disbanding the 125 counsellors and is now prepared to bring 15 of them back is a step in the right direction. Good on the government for taking that step, but it's still a long way from the 125 we had prior to 2001.

I could make a few more suggestions for positive change that need to be reflected in the 2013 budget that would include the following two items. As a letter from the 25 post-secondary institutional presidents pointed out, core funding of our system needs reform.

The 2013 budget should present a plan for how the government's going to reverse the decade-long decline in real per-student operating grants. Included in that plan should be a commitment to also review the funding formula to ensure cost disparities between institutions are addressed as part of the plan to improve core funding.

The budget should also include a commitment to improve affordability, a plan to bring back student grant programs and fix the excessively high interest rate charges that students pay on their debts. This would be a logical first step in that commitment.

Thank you for the opportunity to present our views. I would be glad to answer any questions.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you for your presentation. We'll begin our questions with our Deputy Chair, Mable.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks for your presentation, Jan. We heard recommendations, as well, from groups that presented before you — Initiatives Prince George Development Corp., the Prince George Chamber of Commerce — also echoing the need to invest in skills training and programs that are able to address the resource development in the area, particularly around mining.

I was very interested about your reference to the mining certificate program. Is that offered here now, and do you have students going through it?

J. Mastromatteo: Actually, it's offered right now at two of our campuses, one in Mackenzie and the other in Nechako, which is Vanderhoof and Fort St. James. That's a combined campus. Those campuses are closest to the most recent mining developments.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): How long are those programs, and how many students come through them?

J. Mastromatteo: They vary, and I don't have the student numbers. It depends on what part of the program they're in. Students that are enrolled in programs that include the trades component or skills in trades-related areas would be reduced to 16 per class. The programs took a couple of years to get developed, and they just started last year.

G. Coons: Thank you, Jan. I had a question about that, but I think I've got the answer now.

You brought up many issues in your presentation that I
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think are of concern to a lot of people. I understand that in the last ten or so years your faculty has lost close to 150 members, and courses and programs lost. You talk about affordability and access and these student grants and the high interest rates that we've heard, loud and clear, from other regions of the province.

You also talked about the chaos of the Industry Training and Apprenticeship Commission, and it is. It needs fixing.

I do have a question about that. You talk about the 15 coaches. You've got it highlighted in parentheses. I'm wondering if they are actually counsellors or if you did something special to the word "coaches." I'd like you to clarify that. Are they being hired right now, and who is filling those positions?

J. Mastromatteo: That I can't answer. That's something the government is putting in place. The reason the why the term "coaches" is in quotations is that it's a different term from "counsellors" that was used under the ITAC model. What we're hoping is that the new coaches will fulfil the same work that the counsellors did with ITAC that I tried to outline in my presentation.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. I'll now call our next presenter.

Our next presenter will be the University of Northern British Columbia, represented by John Turner and Kallie Smith. Welcome, both. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions, and your time begins now.

J. Turner: Thank you very much. First off, regrets from Dr. Iwama for not being able to attend. But Kallie and I kind of think that he sent in the A-team, so we're here.

My name is John Turner. I'm here in my capacity as chair of the board of governors at UNBC. I'm accompanied by my co-presenter, Kallie Smith, who is the president of the Northern Undergraduate Student Society. We're going to try to give you a bit of a flavour not only from the institution but also from the students' perspective of what's going on at UNBC.

UNBC is a 22-year-old, research-intensive university in northern British Columbia that educates about 4,000 students every year. It was founded by 16,000 founders that paid $5 each and petitioned governments to create a university in the north, for the north.

UNBC offers a broad range of undergraduate and graduate — that's master's and doctorates — programs. It provides professional programs in health care, including medicine — the northern medical program — business, engineering and social work.

K. Smith: UNBC has also been recognized numerous times for its exceptional performance in teaching, research and sustainability. For example, UNBC has been ranked third in Canada for small universities by Maclean's magazine and first in research for small universities by the Globe and Mail.

In addition, UNBC has been ranked number one in North America by the Association for the Advancement of Sustainability in Higher Education.

Furthermore, UNBC is completely heated by its very own bioenergy plant, and it is projects such as these and countless others that truly make UNBC Canada's green university.

I should also mention that UNBC is home to both student and faculty 3M fellows, as well as 13 research chairs, some of whom are Canadian research chairs.

Finally, UNBC is proud to be the location of two national centres, including the National Collaborating Centre for Aboriginal Health and the national Urban Aboriginal Knowledge Network.

J. Turner: Cloaked in all of that success, of course, there are some challenges with operating in the north. We're not like universities in Victoria and Vancouver. Our institutional revenues are not growing, and the costs of operating are growing dramatically.

We're located in the heart of the most significant economic boom of the province, and it creates some challenges for us. Our geographic footprint is about two-thirds of the province, with a population of about 350,000 people, whereas institutions located in large urban centres have a huge pool of students that really create a base for their operations.

Our enrolment is stagnant, and we're having difficulty in attracting students to the north. We've got high costs of operating in the north with no compensation for that.

We're a small university with capacity limitations on the rate of growth and development, and we have a strong need and demand in this part of the world to expand our programs, particularly. You've heard from other groups, I think, on the importance of the engineering program to growth in the north.

K. Smith: Yeah, absolutely. I would like to echo some of those comments but from a student's perspective. For example, I would definitely like to echo John's comments on the high cost of operating in the north. Most of my student colleagues at UNBC come from places that are at least three hours away. This introduces a large number of financial constraints, including those of travel, higher cost of food, etc.

This is something that is very unique to UNBC. Places like Victoria and Vancouver are not faced with the same challenges that we are at UNBC.

I would also like to mention some of the other financial concerns that UNBC students face on a daily basis. It's
[ Page 2310 ]
obvious that going to school is very expensive, but this is further confounded by decreases to core funding. When institutions are faced with decreases in core funding, they are often forced to go to the students, the most vulnerable population, to compensate for this decrease in funding.

Whether this compensation takes the form of increases in tuition or increases in fee, this leads to many negative effects for students and for some a complete inability to access post-secondary education.

J. Turner: We've had four years of a zero increase in our operating funds, and our operating costs are rising. The suggested 1½ percent reductions in the post-secondary education sector over the next two years have been very difficult for us to manage — highly problematic for us. And I can speak as the board chair. It's an issue that we deal with on a regular basis on the board.

Government can help by reinstituting the northern allowance to help compensate us for our higher costs of working in the north. We can increase the operating funds to meet the increased operational costs of the university and eliminate the threat of cuts to our post-secondary education system. Our appeal to government is to help us, to contribute to our full potential at UNBC. It's good for B.C., and it's good for Canada.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll start our questions with Pat.

P. Pimm: Thanks a lot, guys, for the presentation. Certainly, we've heard similar presentations. On the one point of the northern operating differential — can you expand on that a little bit for me?

J. Turner: I'm not sure when it was eliminated. It was a few years back. There was a differential provided to UNBC to sort of offset the operating costs of being up in the north. It's been cancelled, and we've had to find those funds elsewhere within the operating budget.

G. Coons: Thank you so much, Kallie and John. My daughter was a graduate recently, so add it to that number of 245. I think the mission and the goals of the creation of the university in the '90s really highlight what we've done and where we're going. There are two of us from the north here at the table, I think, that need to convince our colleagues that we need to invest in the north and get our fair share of resources in the north.

Again, getting back to the proposed funding cut. What is that amount? As Kallie mentioned, the impacts on the students, but what other impacts would there be besides the students' tuition and fees and their inability to even finish courses and attend? What other impacts would that funding cut have on you, on the board and involved with the university?

J. Turner: Our students are our best ambassadors. I run into them all the time. I just love to see them. People like Kallie represent what's happening at UNBC.

We're being told by the province that we'll see a 1 percent reduction next year and 1½ percent the following year. It's a real challenge for us, because we have to find that within the existing operating budget.

Those budgets tend to flow down, and it means that we have to look at our tuition costs, which of course are capped by the province as well, so we're looking at finding any opportunity we can for savings within the operational budget. Of course, we're also out there looking for other revenue funds. Given the challenges of where we are located in the north and the competition that's out there for those dollars from the private sector, it's very, very challenging.

K. Smith: Yeah. I guess I would like to emphasize in this kind of conversation that the students are absolutely the most vulnerable population, and unfortunately, in these circumstances where institutions are faced with funding decreases, it is generally speaking the students that face the burden of those decreases. I think that's a real shame, and I see it every day, the negative effects of that.

M. Dalton: I visited UNBC for the first time earlier this year and was very impressed with the programs being offered, the buildings. Things are really happening there.

I'm wondering. As far as the student population coming from other parts of Canada, are you seeing enrolment? Also, international students? Is there much growth with both domestic and international students in the area, or is that pretty flat?

J. Turner: It's pretty flat right across the board. I don't know, Kallie, if you've got any…. What we're seeing is actually a little bit of a decline in the undergraduate registration but a little bit of an increase in the graduate, particularly at the master's and doctorate levels, in through there.

I don't have any numbers for you on attraction from international. I can get those if the committee needs them.

B. Ralston: Thanks very much. Good to see you, John, in one of your many incarnations, whether it's business or the chamber of commerce.

I'm sure you're familiar with the higher education inflation index, which has been explained to me over the
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years as the rate of inflation for some things that the colleges and universities are required to provide is greater than the general inflation index. There is a suggestion in the government's announcement on cutting costs of administration that that should be no big deal. There are some existing prejudices, I guess, or preconceptions, that there's always fat at the top. I know that the 25 university college presidents and college presidents spoke out against this.

In your experience, given your business background, is that a realistic target? Or is it something that the presidents have rightly pointed out is very, very difficult to achieve without compromising the programs that you deliver that are so important to the future of the province?

J. Turner: Well, from my perspective it is difficult for us to achieve it, and part of it is because one size doesn't fit all.

All of the universities in British Columbia are very, very different. We differentiate ourselves up in UNBC because we're a new campus, relatively new. Our budgets were based, really, on putting together budgets over the last 20 years, where some of the other institutions have been putting them together for quite a longer period of time.

I can't really speak to their ability to find those kinds of dollars in their budget, but I know the challenges that we're having in finding it in ours. Again, it's just that the northern operating costs are higher. It's a fact of life up here in the north.

D. Horne (Chair): The last question for you is from myself, and it is a follow-up to Bruce's question. Have your administrative costs been decreased at all? Obviously, we've heard about substantial program cuts and other things, but have you actually decreased your administrative costs over the last couple years?

J. Turner: Over the last couple? No, they've been fairly flat. We've been struggling with that, though, and we're looking at it because we've been asked by the province to really take another look and dig deep.

D. Horne (Chair): So basically all of the cuts have taken place in educational programs and none in administration.

J. Turner: No, I think we've been struggling at the administrative level, because our budgets have been so flat. The challenge that we have, as I've been trying to explain, is that with such a new university, we haven't had an awful lot of room to find the savings that others might have been able to find.

D. Horne (Chair): Could you get the numbers on administration and get them back to the committee for us?

J. Les: John, you mentioned, I believe, in your presentation that what you're experiencing in terms of enrolment is a levelling off. You've kind of flatlined.

I was a little surprised to hear that. Can you maybe explain why? For a young institution in an area that's essentially booming economically, I would have thought there would have been a considerable demand for enrolment in UNBC. Maybe you could explain that a little bit.

J. Turner: It's a little challenging. I think what happened…. There was a huge pent-up demand, so the initial enrolment was quite good, but over the last 20 years it really has flattened and levelled off. That tells me we've sort of taken full advantage of the absorption rate, if you will, for that northern community.

As I say, it's a population of about 350,000 people. It's not very large, and it's not growing. It's shrinking. The economic boom will hopefully bring people in, but it's going to be bringing in skilled individuals with their families. There is some growth opportunity there, I think, at some point in time, but we're not seeing it at this particular point in time. And there's a lot of competition out there for post-secondary education.

J. Les: Does the institution not see its base, perhaps, as somewhat larger than the 350,000 population of the north?

J. Turner: Absolutely. That's why we're reaching out right across Canada and right across North America and the planet. At the board we've really challenged the staff to reach out as far as they can. So when you go to Toronto and you're sitting on the subway system, you'll see UNBC placards and information. If you travel anywhere in Canada, certainly, you'll see UNBC. We are reaching out as best we can with what we've got to attract people.

Again, it's no different than attracting workers. Attracting students to the north is a challenge.

D. Horne (Chair): That reaches the end of our allotted time, so I wish to thank you for your presentation. Thank you so much.

Our next presenter is the Prince George Hospice Society, represented by Karen Beeson.Thank you so much for being here. As I believe you have heard several times, but I'll repeat again, you have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions. Your time begins now.

As you've said, we're representing the Prince George Hospice Society. With me is our board president, Karen Beeson. My name is Donalda Carson, executive director.

We recently developed a PowerPoint presentation for public education. I'm aware of the restrictions of not to bring those here, but because we thought the pictures were key to understanding, we decided we would provide it for you in paper form. We've copied half the slides onto paper and added new information specific to this presentation, so I plan to read from the handout. On the second page you can see our mission and our values are stated there.

Hospice care has changed the world. People do not have to die alone and in severe pain anymore. We provide personalized end-of-life care, which includes pain and symptom relief, short-term hospice respite and family-centred care through comfort, support and understanding. We have a picture of our most recent Prince George Hospice Society's governing board of directors. We are a non-profit society.

We opened the very first freestanding hospice house in B.C. in 1995. We started with a five-bed home to provide end-of-life care. We initially learned our specific medication protocols from Victoria Hospice. We expanded in 2010 to ten beds through a capital campaign which raised $2 million.

We try to admit people who have a life expectancy expressed in weeks as opposed to months. People are encouraged to bring any belongings they cherish, and family and friends may stay 24-7 if they so wish. On admission we immediately evaluate the person's medical condition and we set in motion our specific activities to provide relief of symptoms such as pain or nausea.

We also want to know a lot of personal information, such as important people in their life, who to visit, etc. We provide them with information needed to let them know all that we offer, such as…. There are no restrictions to visiting hours or the number of visitors. Family and friends can stay 24-7 and eat their meals here as necessary. We try to make people feel at home, and we provide grief support and education about the dying process. Volunteers are in Rotary Hospice House days and evenings. They are an integral part of our operations.

Each room is 306 square feet with a separate heating and air-conditioning unit, a TV and room for family to stay, plus the guest. We can sleep three other adults in most rooms. There's a lot of shelf and floor space to bring in personal items and wall space for family photos, etc. There's a two-piece bathroom and a ceiling lift to prevent injury to the guest and the caregivers alike.

We use the word "guest" instead of "patient." I think that's a very key piece of what we do. Guest and family members participate in the care provided. The dining room is a favourite place for family and friends. It's the heart of the home, just like yours.

We rely on our close to 200 volunteers to help us by providing knowledgable grief support. They often make the evening meal and sit with guests, developing a therapeutic relationship of support and understanding.

In our past fiscal year there were 234 people admitted to hospice and 181 volunteers, who performed 8,157 hours of service. At minimum wage of $10.25, we would have paid $83,000-plus for that. At the care aide wage, $18, which is more realistic, we would have paid $149,000-plus for that work.

We provide comfy spaces where people can relax. We provide hope for well-meaning goodbyes. We provide hope for much dignity. And we provide assurance that as the disease progresses, symptoms are well managed. I don't think that's available anywhere else.

We do provide a typical family space, and family and friends enjoy the home environment. We allow the family pet to stay 24-7, as we know they are part of the family. We never say there is nothing more we can do for the guest and family. We can always provide comfort, support and appropriate treatment. We offer solutions to difficulties, and we help individuals achieve their final wishes.

Decisions we make about a loved one's end-of-life care will remain with us forever, and how we feel about those decisions will impact how we grieve for the loss of that family member. Access to hospice palliative care for all British Columbians should be a goal of the B.C. government.

We must raise in excess of $500,000 per year. It's actually closer to $700,000. Why would government not want to fully fund such a cost-effective service? We are overshadowed by the fundraising ability of foundations and cancer events. We are losing the ability to find the necessary amount of dollars in the community.

There are many hospices throughout B.C. Except for the funding, we are much the same. Some are fully funded by health authorities, and some are not. We have been in front of this committee before and have not seen the anticipated changes. The time has come in the health care system for equitable access across the province for palliative care.

We are not asking you to pressure health authorities. In fact, I would ask you not to. We are requesting that the B.C. government give serious consideration to developing the appropriate policy changes that will provide equitable funding for hospice facilities and care, as it does for acute care.

There are some of my numbers I wanted to share with you. Our bed-day costs for this past year were $421. Per bed, per day, it was $421. What's the cost of a hospital bed? Perhaps you know. I'm unable to get that figure. It seems to be something moving around that nobody can answer the question. Perhaps it's $5,000. I don't know. We had 2,171 bed days last fiscal year, and by our costs that would amount to $913,991.
[ Page 2313 ]

If those people had been in a hospital bed — let's be charitable; let's say the bed is $2,000 a day — that would have been $4.342 million, the cost of looking after those people. And if we weren't here in Prince George, they would be dying in the hospital. How about if it were $1,000 per bed day? That would be $2.171 million. No matter how you look at it, we are a very good cost savings.

Let's say we were fully funded for our care facility, which would be $1.5 million, and the occupancy was 75 percent. That still would only amount to $548 per bed day. If the occupancy were 100 percent, it would only amount to $410 per bed day. So we are a pretty cost-efficient operation. It's easy to see that hospice houses are less costly to operate, a cost savings to the B.C. government. We charge each guest a per diem of $30.90, which is the lowest long-term-care rate. That's why we've chosen that amount.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. We'll begin our questions with Dave.

D. Hayer: Thank you very much for your presentation. We also have a Surrey Hospice Society, in Surrey. They do a great job too. I remember last year when you presented your presentation here.

I have a couple of questions. One is on the different staff who work at hospice beside the volunteers. What are their qualifications? The second thing is: do all the patients stay there until they pass away, or do they sort of end up going to the hospital for the last few days? Or if the family decided they don't want to go to hospital, they will stay there until they pass away?

D. Carson: We sometimes get people who come in for short-term treatment. We don't call it respite. It's not quite the right name, because most of the time they're coming in to get relief from pain or other symptoms.

They may also be coming in to give their caregiver a respite, but we try to avoid that, because it often means that somebody of 95 is brought in for a respite and they never go home. Are they palliative? Well, they're old, but they might not have a palliative diagnosis.

We have RNs and care aides on duty and the volunteers, so every shift, day and evening, there is one RN, one care aide and a volunteer. And people very seldom go back to hospital to die. They sometimes, very rarely…. Maybe one or two people a year have had to return to the hospital for some sort of an acute medical episode, and they may stay there and die. But most of the time people come to us, and they remain with us until they die.

D. Hayer: Thank you very much. I know that when my father-in-law passed away, we didn't have the service available. He stayed at our home and died at our home. He wanted to stay at home.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks for your presentation and the very compassionate work that you do. As well, we've heard many presentations from other hospice societies. I think it's a really exemplary service.

My question is: you've got ten beds, so are there other beds offered in the hospital here or in other facilities?

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Okay. And you receive funding from the health authority?

D. Carson: We receive partial funding. What we've done is we've asked them to change our contract. We only asked them to fund seven beds. That then allows us to have our Dream Home Lottery, which we started last year. We can use that money for three beds.

You can't use gaming money to support facility beds that are supported by government. But we were only getting $850 from Northern Health. It's not as though we were getting more and we cut them back. At the time, they liked it because they could then go out and say they were funding 100 percent of seven beds.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Right. Do you find with ten beds that there is more need, in terms of the need for more beds, more spaces?

D. Carson: Yes. The majority of the time we are more than five beds, which is what our capacity was before. Right now we're developing ways to take people who are more elderly. We have a hallway that has four bedrooms in it, and it has a fire door at each end. The problem we've had sometimes is that seniors will be admitted with a terminal diagnosis, and we will be told they're probably only going to live a few weeks. Well, they might live ten months or 12.

What happens is that if they happen to have dementia and they're wandering, it's not a pretty picture when a man wanders into the dining room with no pants on and there are grieving families and maybe a guest in the dining room. So what we can do now — I've just developed this — is that we can willingly take some longer-term palliative, if they're seniors, and have them in that hallway. If they are wanderers, if we shut the fire door, they won't do that. They won't go out and try to leave the building and have the means of being agitated by interaction with people who don't understand. So we're trying hard to meet the needs of what's here.

K. Beeson: I was going to say we wouldn't have them in the hallway. We have four bedrooms in that wing. I
[ Page 2314 ]
wanted to make that clear.

J. Les: I have a very quick question. You mentioned in terms of your staffing mix, RNs and care aides. Missing from that equation somewhere are LPNs. Do you not utilize those in that setting?

D. Carson: We looked at that, and we wanted to. But we have a contract with BCNU for the staff we have, and they weren't willing to expand that.

D. Carson: It might. We are a place where LPN students can come and do a practicum, though.

We'll now call our next presenter — both the PacificSport regional sport centre, northern B.C., and the Northern Medical Society. Welcome both. You have ten minutes to present, followed by five minutes of questions. You can begin anytime.

B. Kelly: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Anne and I represent the WINBC Task Force, and I'll explain that as we go ahead. Dr. Geoffrey Payne asked me to apologize to you. He had to be in Vancouver today on unexpected UNBC business.

I'm Dr. Bert Kelly. I am a local general practitioner. I am executive director of the Northern Medical Society, which was incorporated back in 1999, since when we have pursued our aim of providing good quality, 21st century medical care to the peoples of northern British Columbia.

By the spring of 2002 we knew that, alone, we did not have the horsepower to execute our plan, so we sought allies. The resulting partnership of the Northern Medical Society, UNBC, the College of New Caledonia, Northern Health, the city of Prince George and our regional district endures today.

I think by way of establishing credibility with this committee, it might be reasonable for me to list some of our successes — working, as we always have done, with our outstanding MLAs.

The northern medical program. They said it couldn't be done, but we've now graduated well over 100 new MDs in Prince George. The northern cancer treatment facility, a full-service cancer treatment facility with radiotherapy as well, faced intense opposition from the BCCA, but it will be opening its doors in two or three weeks.

We've increased our nursing graduates locally by 600 percent. We've established a nurse practitioner program at UNBC. We've established a lab technology training program and an X-ray technology training program, both at the College of New Caledonia.

We managed to change the name of our hospital from Prince George Regional to the University Hospital of Northern British Columbia to better express our new role as a teaching institution. We have a funded learning centre for our hospital — funded, but not yet under construction. We managed to convince UBC that we should have a physiotherapy training program here in Prince George as well, and we have the promise of occupational therapy and speech language pathology as well.

Not bad for ten years, and we will continue to advocate strenuously for the infrastructure currently deficient or absent in northern British Columbia. This evening, though, we wanted to show you something completely different. That is WINBC, Wellness in Northern British Columbia. It's an initiative which we think will enable each of our communities to improve their wellness and, in so doing, ensure the sustainability of publicly funded medical care in northern British Columbia.

When I set up my rural medical practice in 1975 in Fraser Lake, I spent my time mostly seeing pregnant women, sick kids and trauma. Now these years later here in Prince George, I see very little of this. My time is taken up with the diagnosis and management of diabetes, congestive heart failure, coronary artery disease, kidney failure, COPD, hypertension — all of these chronic diseases.

We struggle to manage these diseases in British Columbia, and they have the capacity to bankrupt health care in the western nations. The tragedy is that they are, to a significant degree, preventable. The salvage side of my business is becoming unaffordable, and prevention, ladies and gentlemen, I think, is the only logical strategy. Prevention is the nub of this presentation.

At this time WINBC is a concept, but soon it will become a legally constituted institute. Every second Saturday at UNBC at eight o'clock, the principals of WINBC meet. These are people like the CEO of Northern Health, the president of the College of New Caledonia, the provost of the university, the dean of medicine, senior physiotherapists, senior occupational therapists and other busy folks.

The level of commitment to this initiative is very high, and given some financial support from government, we are confident that we can deliver, as we have done before. I ask you to remember that health stats for the northern region are measurably the worst in British Columbia, but they don't have to stay that way.

A. Pousette: My name is Anne Pousette. I'm a family physician. I was born and raised in Prince George. You saw me earlier wear another hat as president of the board for PacificSport Northern B.C. That's the link between healthy, active folks and my lifelong career in medicine coming through.
[ Page 2315 ]

Following the release of the round-table output report, which was attached to the earlier presentation that you got, there was a call to action for the people that Bert has mentioned, around this desire for a centre of excellence in northern B.C. to help deliver on how physical activity in northern B.C. and an improved sports system can help health and wellness in northern British Columbia. How can we deliver on that?

That was the start of those Saturday morning meetings in the summer of 2011. That group of leaders has been working since then to develop the strategy around how wellness in the north could be an outcome of the upcoming 2015 Winter Games. We recognize that — I put some stuff in your package there — the health stats in the north are not getting better. You'll see them there. And there are challenges to improving them that are unique because of our geography.

You're well aware of the kind of region that Northern Health covers. It's very, very large compared to the areas that other health authorities have to look after. So recognizing those things and this unique and exciting opportunity to shape a vision for a legacy gift to northern B.C. of improved health, we've been working away.

The key aspects of the strategy that have been identified include the following. There is an opportunity for the 2015 games to be a catalyst for northern B.C. around wellness and the benefits of physical activity to improve the health of our communities and individual citizens. We agreed that there is a significant problem related to inactivity and poor health outcomes that could be improved with such a strategy.

We need a focused, cohesive and regional plan to address the increase of chronic disease that is crippling the people of northern B.C. The last page of your handout from Northern Health shows you 16,000 new cases in one year of chronic disease in northern B.C. There is a need for development of training programs and educational pathways that provide the skills and knowledge for people in northern B.C. to deliver on this strategy in the long term.

This is likely a ten-year — likely more; we say we'll be here till we die — strategy, but there are opportunities for some significant wins by 2015 that will inspire and encourage citizens in northern B.C. to seek wellness. These initiatives are cross-sector and interdisciplinary. A northern centre of excellence delivering on this strategy could be a first for Canada and potentially internationally when addressed in the manner that we're looking at.

The host society for the 2015 Canada Winter Games have clearly communicated their desire to see the games touch every community in the north and inspire citizens to be active and healthy. Current research has demonstrated that physical inactivity is a much greater risk to health than smoking, and the benefits of adequate physical activity are more significant across the chronic-disease spectrum than medications.

There's a very brief, easy-to-read article from the British Journal of Sports Medicine by probably the world's most recognized expert in this field in your package. It's quite profound — the degree to which inactivity is compounding our obesity, diabetes. Even the milder versions of chronic disease are compounded when you add physical inactivity to them. So just adding physical activity, in some measure, totally turns those things around.

The WINBC initiative, as Bert has stated, this time is a vision — a vision that, with collaboration across sectors and with innovation around our northern context, can lead to a road map that will result in northern B.C. having the capacity to deliver the services, information, education, research and best practices that could reduce chronic disease, improve health and ensure a sustainable health-delivery system for northern British Columbia for the future.

A. Pousette: Basically, at this point, the seed money has come from Northern Health and the University of Northern British Columbia, but we're seeking a commitment from the province of British Columbia to the WINBC initiative to establish an institute for wellness in northern British Columbia.

As you deliberate the budget for 2013 and note that health care costs are a very large portion of the budget, we ask you to consider our northern B.C. health stats, our rate of chronic disease, the knowledge that appropriate physical activity can significantly reduce the incidence and severity and that solutions for a population spread across a large geographic area require a northern strategy.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation. I'll take questions from members. Any questions?

B. Ralston: Thanks very much. I quickly scanned the article — Dr. Blair, I believe — and I think that's properly expressed in the sense that the typical physician is ten to 50 times more likely to measure cholesterol, blood pressure and BMI than to measure fitness.

I guess the challenge is…. I think everyone recognizes the connection between obesity and all the chronic diseases. You're obviously involved in sports and spreading that message. How do you motivate that change at the societal level, and what's the appropriate role for government in motivating and bringing about that kind of big social change?
[ Page 2316 ]

A. Pousette: I think that's a big, broad question. Certainly, public policy that supports the kind of initiatives that will make a difference is important. I think viewing the sport and physical activity sector….

When you look at the budget, it belongs in that little, tiny piece of the pie, but in fact, if you start to look at the health care benefits that could come from putting a little more resources on that side versus how much we're pouring into drugs and procedures and whatnot, I think there's a mismatch there. Internationally, I think these are things that are being recognized. We've known for a long time the stats, but we're only starting to recognize that there is a way to make a difference by getting engaged and changing how we're spending our money.

That's a very general, big-picture answer from a regional, northern B.C. perspective. From our task force work what we see is that there are a lot of silos. There are pillars of activities going on, and there's not a lot of interconnectedness. What the schools are doing isn't connected to what Northern Health is doing. That isn't connected, necessarily, to what the sport system is doing. Those things need to be working together.

It's that cross-sector and collaborative interdisciplinary piece that I think can create efficiencies and actually better programming and allow people to have access to the information they need and access to the programs and support and education that they need.

B. Ralston: It seems to me that a city the size of Prince George is probably better able to make those connections across agencies rather than, say, in the Lower Mainland or something like that. I guess it's a bit depressing to hear you say that the silos, as you've described them, are present here.

In setting up this institute, obviously you have some big goals, which is good. How do you propose to go about tackling those divisions — or silos, as you call them — and bring about the kinds of changes that you're talking about?

B. Kelly: I think the setting up of a centre of excellence at the university to act as the central focus point of the strategy is something that we'll have to do. But the actual strategies will have to be carried out at community level.

All of our communities throughout the north are already connected by computers, by various other things. Northern Health have already established all the pathways. So even places like Dease Lake can join in to discussions on things like this.

Our vision would be that it would be very much a community-based structure. This is going to generate an enormous amount of data over time. One of the things we developed here over the last 20 years is our own homegrown electronic medical record. This is robust. It's extremely powerful. We've had an 80 percent takeup across the northern region. We have now 150,000 patients in that system. We can even today anonymize that data and send it to the university for analysis and meta-analysis.

We've already poured the concrete. All we have to do is build out the structure. We have to sell the concept of wellness to the people of northern British Columbia. But they had to sell the idea to Canadians of not drinking and driving, of wearing a helmet when you ride a bicycle.

You can get these things over generations. This is not going to happen overnight. I can see where this northern area would become one of the world leaders in the prevention and management of chronic diseases.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation and being with us today.

I'll now call our next presenter, who is Darrell Roze from the Child Development Centre of Prince George and District Association. Darrell, welcome to the committee. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions. You can begin anytime.

D. Roze: Good evening. The child development centre — one of the major goals that we have is helping prepare children for success or improved success in the school system and beyond. One of the reasons for this is based on our biological makeup.

During our first few years of life we have a critical early developmental period where we develop our habitual ways in which we interact with the world around us as well as building capacity for future learning, setting the basis for our future physical and mental health. If you have a child that experiences early delay or special needs, the time that you can optimally assist those children is in the first few years of life.

Unfortunately, the number of children that are entering our school system with delays is on the increase. Back in 2004-2005 we saw rates of 27.9 percent of children entering school with a delay. Today we see rates of over 30 percent. We know that only 10 percent of those children have biologically necessary delays, so 20 percent are entering the school system with unnecessary delays.

These children lack such basic skills as holding pencils, getting along with their peers, following basic instructions and being able to climb stairs unaided. In Prince George we've seen a real substantial problem in that some of our neighbourhoods have the highest level of delays or are tied for the highest level of delays that they've found in the province. Almost two in three children in some of our neighbourhoods are entering school in a delayed state, so you see about 50 percent of those children entering school with a biologically unnecessary delay.

We're failing these children, and we're also failing in terms of the future prosperity of our province. It's been estimated that the cost of allowing children to enter school with biologically unnecessary delays will cost the province $401.5 billion over the next 60 years.
[ Page 2317 ]

These costs are in many areas, such as our health care system. When we look at children with special needs, there is a higher incidence of chronic diseases. If we look at our school system, we see that children who enter the school system in a delayed state will most likely be delayed through the balance of their education and will require substantial increases in costs.

Social services, criminal justice. A few years ago the provincial Representative for Children and Youth found that a great majority of individuals that were in the criminal justice system had special needs. Of course, there's a substantial issue of reduced growth to our province as well.

Last year we were able to provide $1,860 worth of early intervention therapy services to children with special needs that required high-level intervention. When you compare this to these children when they enter the school system, some of them will trigger $43,000 worth of services each year, and today we're limited to $1,860 per child per year. When we're hitting those large numbers of resources, that's when these children are less receptive to those services. So the services provide less, but we're putting more into them at the wrong time.

One of the issues that we've been seeing in Prince George is also children that are reaching kindergarten with substantial mental health issues. A number of these children are being kicked out of kindergarten because they're a danger to themselves and to others. If these children had access to appropriate services in a timely manner, there's every possibility that they would be able to successfully transition into the school system.

I can only imagine what kinds of challenges these children will face through the balance of their education and beyond because they were unable to initially transition successfully into the school system, and most will likely for many years have substantial social and emotional issues. One of the problems that we've faced is substantial underfunding, and this is really pervasive across the whole province.

The early intervention therapy program that we run is one of the best ways to help minimize the impacts of special needs. Over the last ten years in Prince George we've seen an approximate doubling in demand for that program, but we still have approximately the same number of therapists on the ground. So we have, on a per-child basis, about half of the available services that we used to provide. We're simply not able to provide appropriate levels of service.

I think one of the problems we've also faced is that child development falls under the Ministry of Children and Family Development. We've found that that is an extremely child protection–focused ministry and that we don't have a lot of folks there who have a good understanding of early childhood development.

What I've come here to ask today is for three things, consideration on three funding increases. The first one is for our early intervention therapy program. As I indicated before, this is one of the most important programs for dealing with delays, especially for children that have substantial delays.

Right now, as I mentioned earlier, we provide about $1,860 per child, and we're looking for an increase of $1,800 per child to provide a reasonable level of support for these children. All added up, that would end up as a $1.2 million increase, but on a per-child basis, you'll see that these costs are fairly insubstantial in comparison to what these children will cost in the future.

A second area is our supported child development program. This program allows children with special needs, the children that require extra support, to participate in mainstream child care programs. This includes areas such as daycare and preschool. It's a very important program in that it allows children to develop beside their typically abled peers and also introduces them to the more social atmosphere that they will be exposed to when they hit the education system.

We're looking for a $300,000 increase in that program. That would allow for a substantial reduction in children that are wait-listed currently and also assist children that…. We have large ratios of children to staff members at this point, so that would allow it to be a more manageable level.

The third program — this is a new program that we piloted last year — is called the BEST program. It's the behavioural emotional social teaching program. This is for children that are experiencing early mental health issues. We ran the pilot, an eight-week pilot, with private funding and also with in-kind donations from other organizations, and it was extremely beneficial. We saw a dramatic improvement within an eight-week period for children that had substantial mental health issues going in.

Part of the programing was directly to the children; part of it was providing assistance to the parents. It was a nice mix. It provided substantial benefits. The parents came into the program feeling completely overwhelmed, and at the end of it they felt like they could help manage their children's behaviour.

I have no doubt that this will have a substantial impact on those children's ability to enter the school system successfully. We're looking for $225,000 in ongoing funding to help facilitate that program. It would definitely have a massive impact on the community.

Other things that I've provided in the package. I've provided some rationale. If you're interested, you can go through that, and some analysis on the costs as well as some additional information about the child development centre.

D. Horne (Chair): Darrell, thank you for your presentation. We’ll begin our questions with Bruce.
[ Page 2318 ]

B. Ralston: Thanks very much for your presentation. David Dodge, who was the governor of the Bank of Canada, wrote a paper a few years ago. From your nodding, you are familiar with it. Leaving aside the social justice issues, his argument was that intervention in the early years was an important economic investment, given the demographic shift that we're seeing. In order to have those children be able to contribute and also to use the public education system effectively, it was really important that those kinds of interventions take place, because you were training people who were going to be future participants in the economy.

So it wasn't a social justice argument, sometimes perceived or attacked by some as being a soft or mushy argument. This was a hard-nosed economic argument. There are real benefits there. I appreciate the arguments that you're making here.

My question was related to some of the comments that you have on page 2. I'm not sure whether you want to put them on the record, but you did say that there seems to be some difference, or sharp difference, of opinion with some people in the Ministry of Children and Family Development about what the problem is. I don't know whether you want to comment further on that or whether you would prefer, out of prudence, maybe to not put it on the record.

D. Roze: The most blatant example of this was when I was in a meeting of the British Columbia Association of Child Development and Intervention. We had an assistant deputy minister come in, and that's actually the individual who said that money wasn't the answer, that we couldn't hire the therapist if we wanted to. That's absolutely incorrect.

When you look around the province, every child development agency that I know of is heavily involved in fundraising. That's because we're dramatically underfunded. That individual was so misinformed, and I was shocked that he would say that to a group of service providers. It was so blatantly incorrect.

J. Les: Thanks, Darrell, for your presentation. I don't particularly disagree with anything you've said. It's clear that early intervention is key to salvaging the very best of these young people.

Perhaps this is slightly outside your mandate, but I can't help but think that this is something we all need to be thinking about. When you're telling us that the percentage of children entering the education system with developmental delays is trending over 30 percent, that to me is shocking and represents some kind of human crisis.

I'm certainly not equipped to understand what is causing that, but it seems to me that is wildly out of any proportion that it should be at. I'd be interested in any comment you would have in terms of what can be done to prevent that number from escalating and perhaps bring it down.

D. Roze: Well, there's a type of programming that we have. I definitely know that has a substantial change in the way children develop. When the province was on track to introducing the early kindergartens, I think that would have been a good way to identify children who were delayed. A lot of children hit the kindergarten system and nobody has seen them before, so getting them addressed earlier is a really critical point. But once they're identified, you need to have the services.

We are so overwhelmed with the number of referrals that we get, it wouldn't do any good having more people identified. We're providing all of the services we can. We need to have more resources to help these children.

There are so many reasons why this is happening. It's probably dramatically outside the scope of this, but things like premature babies being saved, children from older parents, children using TVs as a babysitter. Those are all types of things that dramatically impact the levels of development that children have by the time they enter the kindergarten system.

D. Horne (Chair): We have two more questions and a minute left, so very brief on both sides.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Darrell, thanks for your presentation. I was wondering if you can give me an idea in terms of the numbers that you deal with. I know you mentioned you had wait-lists as well.

D. Roze: Within our early intervention therapy program we saw about 700 children last year, and we see a bunch of other children with supported child development who are more or less delayed than that. There are lots of kids out there, and we're seeing some of the worst. There are still other ones that I would imagine….

We see about one in five preschool children in the region, and I would assume that we could go to two in five, and that would start addressing some of those issues, if we had the capacity to provide the services.

J. Slater: Recognition. Parents need to know that their kids are behind at two, 2½, three, 3½. We've started the StrongStart system now, where parents are going into the system with other kids, and they should recognize that their kids are delayed. You say 30 percent of those kids going into StrongStart are delayed, yet you also say that within eight weeks, you can fix most of them.

D. Roze: I'm saying that within the eight weeks we can have a dramatic improvement in mental health con-
[ Page 2319 ]
ditions of children that have social-emotional issues. For he children that have pervasive delays, it's going to take a lot longer than that.

When I look at costing for providing assistance to a child, I assume that we will see them probably halfway between when they're in the kindergarten system, so halfway between birth and five, and give them about 2½ years of services. If we provide full services at that level, we could get a substantial number of those children up to typical abilities by the time they enter the school system.

J. Slater: Okay, so the information that you've given us here…. It's $1.2 million for just the Prince George area.

J. Slater: If we as government say: "Look, we need to do an experiment. We have some data from professionals that says if we bring these kids, these two- to five-year-olds, and teach them early, we can affect results…." If we took an area and said: "Okay, we're going to do this area. Let's see what the results are and then make it provincewide…." Has it ever been done anywhere else?

D. Roze: I know they've done a lot more research in this area in Australia, but I don't know that they've done the specific task you're talking about. We can look at the practical experience that we have and look at what a child's development is when we get them and the massive change they have when they're leaving. That used to be a bigger change because we had access to more services, but we're still able to impact substantial change.

One of the things we've experienced over the last ten years is that we're requiring the parents to take on a greater and greater role. Now, when you hit high-functioning parents, that can work well. A lot of the children that come in — their parents are fairly low-functioning as well, so that doesn't work.

D. Horne (Chair): Unfortunately, we've reached the end of our time. Thank you for presentation, and thank you for being with us today.

I'll now call our next presenter, Harwin Elementary School — Marnie Alexander and Kailee Patterson. I want to welcome you both. You have ten minutes to present followed by five minutes of questions. Your time begins now.

M. Alexander: My name is Marnie Alexander. My presentation tonight is regarding the after-school sports initiative. I'm a community-school social worker at Harwin Elementary. Our school is deemed one of the highest-risk schools in Prince George and was selected to pilot the 2010 sport legacy fund initiative.

Our students basically face significant barriers to sport and overall healthy lifestyles due to poverty, transportation, general lack of support within our community. This initiative has allowed us to explore new strategies to impact our children.

We host extensive after-school programming. Some of our highlights include the 75 students currently training for the Iceman multisport winter event. We have the Goals and Dreams Hockey Academy, our triathlon team. So we've really thought outside the box of what we can do with the money that was invested in us, and we've really tried to impact our children as much as we can with this.

These programs have not only impacted the overall health and fitness levels of our children; they've connected our families to positive community events, healthy role models, and they have truly built a community.

We have increased engagement and participation in our schools, a significant decrease in behavioural difficulties, reduced transiency from our area. We have greater trust from our families and involvement from our families. We've built in strategies to improve social skills, develop self-esteem and promote goal development and achievement. I truly believe that this programming has a long-term impact on both our community and our children. We really believe in what we do.

It's not a huge amount of money that we've actually got at our school, but it has been a starting block that we've used to jump with. We've taken that money, and our kids do a tremendous amount of fundraising to build on the funding that we have and increase our opportunities within our school.

We do outdoor adventure schools. We do boot camps. We have tons of after-school programming that's meeting the needs of over 90 percent of our school. It's pretty exciting what this initiative has been able to do at the school level. We wanted to come and express how important that was to us and how that impacts us.

K. Patterson: Good evening. My name is Kailee Patterson, and I am proud to be a grade 7 student at Harwin Elementary. I have attended other schools that did not have after-school programs, and I was not involved at those schools. At Harwin we are fortunate to have a lot of after-school programs, such as the Iceman Frozen Warriors team, our Goals and Dreams Hockey Academy, our outdoor Educo Adventure School, a triathlon team and many after-school programs.

I believe that starting physical activities at our age will encourage us to have healthier futures, and I believe I will be participating in triathlons and events as an adult because of these experiences. I believe that eating healthier and working out makes you feel better about yourself.

I look forward to coming to school and interacting with friends during all of my programs. If I didn't have these after-school opportunities, I would likely go home and watch TV, and many of my friends would just sit on Facebook or the Internet.
[ Page 2320 ]

Very few of my friends are able to participate in school programs or activities outside of school. Having these programs makes kids feel excited to come to school, and it makes them proud of our school and of themselves. When our students go to high school, they keep coming back to join us on activities. We are more than just a school; we're a family.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for that, and we'll have some questions, starting with Gary.

In Prince Rupert we have Roosevelt Park Community School, and the activities there are vital not only to that school but to the region, as you take the underutilized facilities and use them — hopefully, day and night and weekends. I was wondering what your funding is and something about staff and volunteers and how many kids are involved every day.

M. Alexander: Well, it is 17 schools that it's being piloted in. I believe we have had $5,500 last year, and I think we had $7,500 the year before. As I say, it's a jumping block. We do a tremendous amount of fundraising and look to community supporters.

Because of that, we've been able to get a lot of community sporting goods stores and sporting goods reps involved in helping us out. Because of what we're doing, having established those programs, we've actually got the Canadian Tire JumpStart program. We have probably about eight or nine different groups or organizations that are supporting us because of what we were able to start with the funding.

Every day we have at least, I would say, 60 to 70 students who are participating in programming. Overall, we had 60 students through the Iceman last year, and we are looking at 75. The Iceman is a winter sport multi-event. It's kind of a cool program. It's an adult event, so we challenge it, and we kind of dominate it with our kids there.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks for your presentation. Interesting to hear, Kailee, about your experience in the programs and that you really enjoy it. Thanks a lot for sharing that with us.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): The 17 schools that it's being piloted in — is that across B.C.?

M. Alexander: You know what? I'm not even entirely certain. It just said 17 communities. I believe it's across B.C., but I'm not certain specifically where.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Congratulations on partnering with a number of different businesses and really leveraging that. Do you work with community centres or other types, like the boys and girls club, or is it basically at the school?

M. Alexander: We try to keep as many things as we can at the school. We are working with the judo club. We work with PacificSport. There are a few different groups that we do work with. A lot of our staff actually has to go out into the community for training.

In a lot of our programming, once we've established it, it's easier to get people on board because not only do we have a concept, but we can prove that we're actually doing these programs.

M. Alexander: We have a lot of volunteers. Actually, it has had a huge impact on our families, because our parents are out there. They have confidence in us. They have confidence in our school. They see what we're doing, and they're getting involved.

We actually had our triathlon this year — I run the city triathlon, the Kids Fun Triathlon — and it was primarily a Harwin parents–run event. Probably primarily 90 percent of my volunteers at the event were Harwin parents, because they're so established. Being involved in our programming, they've taken that out to other events we also participate in.

M. Alexander: I'm strictly encouraging the funding to continue. I think it's a tremendous opportunity for us. I don't think I fully realized when I came on board what I could do with it. I just really wanted people to understand what we're doing at the school level with that money. You know, $5,500 probably doesn't sound like a tremendous amount, but what we've been able to build that to is really exciting.

J. Les: As it happens, I believe you're the last presentation today. What a great high note to end up on. I'm so impressed by what you've done, both at your level, Marnie, and at yours, Kailee. I'm sitting here wondering how we can clone you guys and replicate what you've done in so many other places around the province. So congratulations, first of all.

My other instinct would be — and I don't know for sure what the answer is to this question…. There's a tremendous ability for kids to move around school districts nowadays. I'm sure that Harwin Elementary must be recognized across the school district as one of the choice places to go to school. Do you find that you're attracting kids from across the city?

M. Alexander: Yes. We've had declining enrolment for over ten years, and now we went up 40 students this year. We actually had families that moved into the community with the idea, and our rental list is pretty big in our area. People don't leave now, so people are actually not leaving our catchment area in order to stay in our school.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much for your presentation today, and Kailee did a very good job. I'm sure it's a great program. Thank you again.

Since it is the end of the day — we don't normally do this — if you wanted to come and have a picture on this side of the table, you're more than welcome. It might be a good way to end the day.

Hansard Services publishes transcripts both in print and on the Internet.
Chamber debates are broadcast on television and webcast on the Internet.
Question Period podcasts are available on the Internet.

Chair:	* Douglas Horne (Coquitlam–Burke Mountain BC Liberal)
Deputy Chair:	* Mable Elmore (Vancouver-Kensington NDP)
Members:	* Gary Coons (North Coast NDP)
	* Marc Dalton (Maple Ridge–Mission BC Liberal)
	* Dave S. Hayer (Surrey-Tynehead BC Liberal)
	* John Les (Chilliwack BC Liberal)
	* Pat Pimm (Peace River North BC Liberal)
	* Bruce Ralston (Surrey-Whalley NDP)
	Bill Routley (Cowichan Valley NDP)
	* John Slater (Boundary-Similkameen BC Liberal)
	* denotes member present
Clerk:	Susan Sourial
Committee Staff	Stephanie Raymond (Administrative Assistant)

Witnesses:	Marnie Alexander (Harwin Elementary School)
	Karen Beeson (Prince George Hospice Society)
	Jennifer Brandle-McCall (CEO, Prince George Chamber of Commerce)
	Donalda Carson (Executive Director, Prince George Hospice Society )
	Dr. Charles Jago (Initiatives Prince George)
	Jocelyn Johnston (Executive Director, British Columbia Dental Association)
	Dr. Bert Kelly (Wellness in Northern B.C. Task Force)
	Ken Kilcullen (Initiatives Prince George)
	Dr. Bill McGill (President, Board of Directors, Prince George Chamber of Commerce)
	Jan Mastromatteo (Vice-President, Faculty Association of the College of New Caledonia)
	Mike Morris (President, B.C. Trappers Association)
	Tom Muirhead (PacificSport Northern B.C.)
	Craig Noonan (Interim Executive Director, PacificSport Northern B.C.)
	Kailee Patterson (Harwin Elementary School)
	Matt Pearce (President, Prince George District Teachers Association)
	Dr. Anne Pousette (President, Board of Directors, PacificSport Northern B.C.; Wellness in Northern B.C. Task Force)
	Bill Quinn (Prince George Chamber of Commerce)
	Darrell Roze (Child Development Centre of Prince George and District Association)
	Kallie Smith (President, Northern Undergraduate Student Society)
	John Turner (Chair, Board of Governors, University of Northern British Columbia)
	Barb Ward-Burkitt (Executive Director, Prince George Native Friendship Centre)
	Dr. Richard Wilczek (British Columbia Dental Association)

1) British Columbia Trappers Association	Mike Morris
2) Prince George District Teachers' Association	Matt Pearce
3) PacificSport Northern BC	Tom Muirhead
	Craig Noonan
	Dr. Anne Pousette
4) Prince George Native Friendship Centre	Barbara Ward-Burkitt
5) Initiatives Prince George	Ken Kilcullen
	Dr. Charles Jago
6) Prince George Chamber of Commerce	Jennifer Brandle-McCall
	Dr. Bill McGill
	Bill Quinn
7) British Columbia Dental Association	Dr. Richard Wilczek
	Jocelyn Johnston
8) Faculty Association of the College of New Caledonia	Jan Mastromatteo
9) University of Northern British Columbia	John Turner
	Kallie Smith
10) Prince George Hospice Society	Donalda Carson
	Karen Beeson
11) Wellness in Northern BC Task Force	Dr. Bert Kelly
	Dr. Anne Pousette
12) Child Development Centre of Prince George and District	Darrell Roze
13) Harwin Elementary School	Marnie Alexander
	Kailee Patterson

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