Finance and Government Services — Issue No. 74 — Thursday, September 20, 2012 (HTML)

Present: Douglas Horne, MLA (Chair); Mable Elmore, MLA (Deputy Chair); Marc Dalton, MLA; Dave S. Hayer, MLA; Pat Pimm, MLA; Bill Routley, MLA

Unavoidably Absent: Gary Coons, MLA; John Les, MLA; Bruce Ralston, MLA; John Slater, MLA

3. The following witnesses appeared before the Committee and answered questions:

The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES


CONTENTS
Page
Presentations	1938
L. Hockman
T. Gregoire

D. Horne (Chair): Good morning, everyone. I'm Douglas Horne. I'm the MLA for Coquitlam–Burke Mountain and the Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services. This is an all-party parliamentary committee of the Legislative Assembly, whose mandate includes conducting annual public consultations on the upcoming provincial budget.

I would like to welcome everyone in the audience and thank everyone for taking the time to participate in this important process. Every year, in preparation of the next year's budget, the Minister of Finance releases a consultation paper. The paper presents the current fiscal and economic forecast and identifies key issues that need to be addressed in the next budget. Print copies of that Budget 2013 consultation paper are available on the information table at the back of the room.

Following the release of the consultation paper this committee holds public consultations and invites the input of British Columbians on the upcoming budget. Following the consultation period the committee releases a report containing a series of recommendations for the upcoming budget. The report must be presented to the Legislative Assembly no later than November 15.

There are several ways for British Columbians to participate. This year the committee is scheduled to hold 18 public meetings in communities throughout British Columbia. This is our fifth public hearing. Earlier this week we held meetings in Surrey, Castlegar, Cranbrook and Kelowna. After this we are scheduled to travel to Vancouver, Coquitlam, Abbotsford, Fort St. John, Quesnel, Kamloops, Prince Rupert, Kitimat, Smithers, Prince George, Courtenay, Parksville and Victoria.

In addition to the public hearings, we have also scheduled video conference sessions next week in Victoria to reach out to additional locations. This is the fourth time that we have used video conferencing for this purpose, and this year's video conferences are scheduled to include Dawson Creek, Fort Nelson and Salmon Arm.

In addition to the public hearings, British Columbians can also share their ideas by sending us written submissions through an on-line forum on our website. We also accept written submissions by e-mail, letter or fax, along with video or audio files. British Columbians can also participate in the consultations by filling in a short on-line survey on our website, which is located at www.leg.bc.ca/budgetconsultations. There you can find further information on the consultation process, download a copy of the budget consultation paper and learn more about the work of this committee. All of the input we receive is carefully considered, and the deadline for submissions is Thursday, October 18.

At today's meeting each presenter may speak for up to ten minutes, and up to an additional five minutes is allotted for questions from committee members. Time permitting, we also may have an open-mike session near the end of the hearing, with five minutes allotted to each presentation. If you would like to register for the on-line session, you can do so at the back.

Today's public meetings will also be recorded and transcribed by Hansard Services. A copy of the transcript, along with the minutes, will be made available on the committee's website. In addition to the transcript, a live audio webcast of this meeting is also being broadcast through the committee's website. In addition to the live webcast, an archived audio copy of this meeting will also be posted.

I'd like to start now by having the members of the committee introduce themselves. We have a few of our committee members that are away on other duties today, but I'd like the ones that are here to introduce themselves now, starting with Pat.

P. Pimm: Good morning. I'm Pat Pimm. I'm the MLA for Peace River North, and I live in Fort St. John.

M. Dalton: Good morning. I'm the MLA for Maple Ridge–Mission. I'm Marc Dalton.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Good morning. I'm Mable Elmore, MLA for Vancouver-Kensington and Deputy Chair of the committee.

D. Horne (Chair): Also members of this committee are John Les, who's from Chilliwack; Bruce Ralston from Surrey; John Slater from Osoyoos — Okanagan-Similkameen, I think, is his riding; and Gary Coons, who's from the North Coast.

Also joining us today from the parliamentary committees' office is the Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Committees, Kate Ryan-Lloyd, as well as Stephanie Raymond, who's at the back of the room and who's been registering those that are here. As well, staff from Hansard Services are Michael Baer and Jean Medland. They are here to record the proceedings, as I mentioned earlier.

We'll now call our first witness, which is the Vernon First Nations Friendship Centre. Laura, I believe you're actually presenting twice, so we'll start with the first group that you represent, and then we'll move to the second after we finish questions for the first. As I said,
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you have ten minutes for your presentation, and you can begin when you're ready.

L. Hockman: Good morning, everybody. I am very excited to be here and to be able to present twice for two very different groups. Being a very community-involved person, that's what happens. You get to get involved with some really great groups, and you want to be able to share the message from various groups.

First this morning I'm here on behalf of the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres. I was recently elected as the president of the Vernon First Nations Friendship Centre board, in August. I've been involved with the friendship centres for a few years now, and I want to share a story about how the friendship centres have made a difference in my life.

My whole life there's always been this kind of dark cloud over our family. It was Port Alberni and the effects of the residential school. My mom went there. If you talk to her, she'll say that she got off really easy in that residential school because she was there as a high school student, but that didn't stop the trauma from being carried through our family.

Being involved with the friendship centres…. There are 23 of them in this province, and there are meetings that take place in various parts of the province with the friendship centres. This year our provincial AGM was hosted in Port Alberni. I was scared to go, but I knew I had to go because in order to be able to run again, I had to be there. I had to face that demon of having to go to Port Alberni, because my whole life Port Alberni was this dark cloud. It was this awful place. It was where awful things happened.

I was driving into Port Alberni that morning in my new car, and I'm like: "I don't want to take my car into this horrible place." I was shocked when I got there and realized what a beautiful, thriving, amazing community this is. I really struggled with kind of what I had thought of it and what was actually there.

Then I was really lucky that the friendship centre there was able to come together and provide me with some support in order to be able to get up the courage to be able to go to the site of the Alberni Residential School and to be able to face that physically — of knowing where my mom stood, where my mom slept, where things happened to a number of aboriginal children.

Without the friendship centre I wouldn't have been able to do that. It's not just being able to go there for a couple of hours. It was knowing that afterward I would have that support to be able to face that and to deal with kind of the ongoing healing that's taking place after facing that dark cloud.

That's kind of the biggest impact that the friendship centres have had in my life so far, and I've only been actively involved at a board level for two years. If they can make that huge of an impact in the first two years, I don't know what else they can do for me in the next part of my life. That's kind of that personal piece of what friendship centres have done for me.

As I said, I'm the president here of the local friendship centre and on the executive of the B.C. association, so we hear a lot of stories about the impact of centres. In the copy of the messages that you were provided with, there's more information about the impact that friendship centres are making across this province, particularly because of the percentage of aboriginal people that are in urban areas.

Seventy percent of aboriginal people are in urban and rural areas and not on the reserve. That's a huge portion of people that are away from their communities, that are away from their families and that need supports. That's what friendship centres do. They fulfil that role.

With that, friendship centres are struggling from that demand, and friendship centres are in need for long-term annualized funding. They're asking for $3.1 million of a capacity investment into friendship centres. With that investment…. Friendship centres prove over and over the impacts and the difference that they make in people's lives.

The second point in the key messages is around creating downstream benefits and social and economic outcomes for aboriginal people. They save money for the government in both health and education costs and in social costs — being there for families that are in crisis, being there for young people who are looking for connections to culture and trying to find out about their identity.

I was really lucky, making that journey to Port Alberni. I'm university educated, I am established in my career, and I'm pretty experienced in life, so facing that was relatively easy. But if I was 18 or 19 or in my early 20s, that experience would look a lot different. It's friendship centres that are making those connections with those youth, as well, and they're showing them their culture.

Here in Vernon we have the cultural connections for youth. Making those contacts with youth, giving them a place to be, giving them a sense of who they are and where they come from and why they feel those things that they feel — that's what friendship centres are doing. There will be another presenter here, and she'll be talking more about the connection that friendship centres make with youth.

When I think about that experience in Port Alberni…. It continues to come up for me. It continues to make an impact on my life. Even today when I was getting dressed, I wore my vest from my granny. She was a hereditary chief. I was, like, "I really need some inspiration from her today," so I thought I'd better wear her vest. I'm glad that she's kind of with me today, particularly being the public
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speaker that she was. I'm probably not doing her justice, but it's also nice to be able to have her comforting me.

With the social and the economic outcomes that friendship centres bring and create for aboriginal people all over the province, we also are able to lever additional money from various sources to be able to make the most of an investment by government and to be able to provide quality services to people, again, all over this province. When I was listening to where each of you is from…. I think there's a friendship centre in pretty much every riding, so I hope each of you has visited your local friendship centre and has seen the impact.

To close, I wanted to end with…. Last year there was a recommendation made by this committee, recommendation No. 47: "In conjunction with the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres, develop a long-term capacity fund and implement a coordinated strategy for aboriginal people living off reserve."

Here we are again, another year that that commitment, that recommendation, was made. There was a commitment made in the Speech from the Throne. We're here again talking about the difference that friendship centres make in this province. We're really hoping that that recommendation will be made again to Treasury Board and that, hopefully, there will be a push to turn those recommendations and turn that commitment into some real dollars, because friendship centres are struggling.

The demand only keeps rising from people moving off of a reserve and looking for some kind of support in our community. Certainly for Vernon we need a further commitment from the provincial government, in real terms, of dollars.

D. Hayer: Thank you very much, Laura — a very good presentation and a very moving presentation. I appreciate you sharing your personal story with that. I'm happy to see you had a good time when you finally got to work in Port Alberni, because it's a beautiful city and really good people there. I have visited there many times.

My question to you: how many volunteers are at your friendship centre, then how many paid staff work there, and what is your budget for your centre per year?

L. Hockman: We probably have, I would say, close to a hundred volunteers for various different things — not necessarily volunteers that are in the friendship centre every day but at different events that are happening. Certainly, different groups that are running…. There are various elders that come in for different groups. There are various youth that come in and help. So definitely a range of ages and a range of skill sets that our volunteers have. Here in Vernon our budget is about $5 million.

There are just over 30 staff here in Vernon. Various lengths of service that our staff have been able to stay with us are really based on funding. There are some contracts through MCFD. There are cultural connections staff that are working with youth, different staff that are working with elders, employment, various different things — alcohol and drug, those different kinds of supports.

D. Hayer: Yeah, we have June Laitar from Kla-how-eya house in Surrey, who is very active, does a lot of work there.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks, Laura. I thought it was a very good, very strong presentation, and eloquent. I think you did a good job, and your grandma would be proud of you. Thanks for your very, I think, passionate presentation on behalf of really showing the value and importance of friendship centres. I know I've visited the aboriginal friendship centre in Vancouver. It has a lot going on there.

My question. You mentioned, in terms of the budget that you receive…. Do you secure contracts from the federal government as well, and municipal government at all?

L. Hockman: Yeah, there are federal dollars that come. The cultural connections for aboriginal youth is federal funding. However, that funding was frozen this year after there was a…. It was unfrozen as of July, but we have not heard yet when a new contract is coming for that program. That's putting additional pressure on our friendship centres. The funding was frozen, then it was unfrozen, and two months later we still don't know when that funding is going to get to our doors.

Locally here in Vernon we've been keeping that program going since April. We're having to make a decision next week about what we do with those staff and, particularly, what's going to happen to those youth. The reason
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we've been keeping that program going with no money is because we're worried about those youth. They're very marginalized. They're finding their way, so we don't want to have to say: "Sorry, too bad." That's a little bit scary.

Then we do get some other federal dollars as well, but it's a pretty small portion of our overall budget.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Do you have an idea of how many people use the programs in the centre and participate in the activities and events that you organize?

L. Hockman: When I was just looking at our most recent program report, there was probably a user base of about 20,000. Some of those would be, obviously, repeat people that would be coming in, so probably about 10,000 different individuals, I would say, are coming in and accessing supports for a variety of programs.

M. Dalton: Thank you, Laura, for your presentation. I appreciate that, and your involvement with it. It plays a vital role within the province. I'm Métis myself, and my father and my uncles were in the residential school system too.

In terms of the budget, you're asking for a $3.1 million capacity investment. Are you talking about just here, or are you talking about the province?

L. Hockman: Yes, to go to the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres.

L. Hockman: I think it's about $16 million. I think that's the overall budget. However, that budget includes funds that are hosted by the association. For example, they host a sports and recreation contract. They host an ECD contract. Those aren't actual dollars that go out to friendship centres.

We can certainly provide you with real figures of what the B.C. association holds that's going out to friendship centres.

M. Dalton: Right. It'd be good to know, also, as far as the association, the breakdown of the $3.1 million, how they would come to that. Some specifics are always important.

L. Hockman: Yes, absolutely. I can get the B.C. association to forward that breakdown. I'm sure it's been provided in the past, and we'll provide it again.

B. Routley: Thank you for your presentation. I know that in Cowichan Valley we've had several meetings with First Nations where they talk about the issues of residential schools. You may be aware that in the Cowichan Valley they had a real crisis with suicides.

I know the friendship centre is one of the solutions that helps very much in the Cowichan Valley, so I'm concerned about any impact to programs being cut. You said that some of the programs are being kept alive simply by volunteers. Are you aware of other areas as well as your own? Could you tell us some more about the impact of a lack of funding on programs in your community?

L. Hockman: I'm not sure. My comments were more just around the CCAY funding that was cut. That was through the federal government. I mean, that's had a pretty big impact here in our community.

I can't speak too much about any other programs that I'm aware of. Certainly, with what happened in Cowichan and declaring that state of emergency and then having that particular CCAY funding cut at the executive table of the B.C. association, we were really concerned.

We were trying to do what we could to work with the federal government to find out what they needed to be able to get those funds unfrozen and to work with our National Association of Friendship Centres in Ottawa to be able to do what we can to be able to provide the information that's needed so they understood what that program looks like on the front lines.

Here in Vernon we have what we call our Sookinchoot Centre. It's kind of an older building. It's a place for the youth to be able to meet, to be able to do some artwork, to be able to express themselves, to be able to organize activities around some traditional teachings, traditional practices, those kinds of things.

It's a really great knowledge-filled safe space for the youth here in our community. As of today we don't know what the future of that funding is. Again, we're doing what we can to be able to keep something in place for those youth. So my fingers are crossed, I guess.

B. Routley: Yeah. Well, again, thank you very much for all you do to help your community. Please convey our thanks to all your volunteers as well.

D. Horne (Chair): Well, thank you so much. I've had the opportunity to visit the friendship centre in Victoria as well, and I've seen all the great work that's done there. Really, I think it's important to the community and the volunteers. Some of the programs that are delivered are fantastic. Even the meal service that they're providing is really great. I want to thank you for coming today.

I guess now what we'll do is move over to Independent Living Vernon, and we'll start with that presentation, followed by questions. Anytime you're ready, we'll get started.
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There's not too much change to do my second presentation. Really, as a person I don't change all that much. I'm still the same person I was a couple of seconds ago when I was talking. I'm just bringing a different lens.

Independent Living Vernon is my job, technically, but it's also more than that. It's really who I am. As an executive director, I have my degree in social work. I'm a registered social worker. I have my master's degree in interdisciplinary studies.

It doesn't come easy, for many of the reasons that I talked about before, but also because I struggle with anxiety and depression on an hourly basis. This morning it was really hard to get up and be able to come here, but I knew I had to do this.

I also struggle a lot with chronic pain. That's just from years of stress. Working in a non-profit agency is really tough on the body, and it's really tough on the emotions. But working in an organization like Independent Living Vernon really helps, I guess, to be able to come to terms with some of those things that I struggle with.

The presentation today is not necessarily around any specific asks. It's just about things that we run into on a daily basis for the people that we serve.

Independent Living Vernon is a resource centre for people with disabilities — people with a variety of disabilities, whether it be physical, emotional, mental or a combination thereof. Our main niche in the disability market is around information.

When a person with a disability comes in and they have a question about, "Where do I go to apply for disability benefits?" then we're there to answer that question. When people come in and ask, "My mom was just recently diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis, and she can't work anymore; what does she do," we're there to answer that question.

Other disability organizations provide a lot of direct care to people with disabilities. They provide specific services to people with specific disabilities. Our mandate is a little bit different because we deal with people with a variety of disabilities. Again, our main commodity that we put out is around information, because information is power.

We've seen people that have come in to ask a simple question, and they come back a couple months later and say: "That piece of information that you gave me changed my life." So we're there.

In Vernon there's five staff. We have a budget of about $250,000, and we make over 19,000 contacts with people each year. So when we're at work, we're running from the phone to a person all the time. We're talking to a lot of people because there's a lot of need out there. Again, this presentation is just stuff that we hear from people all the time, on a daily basis.

One of the first things we noticed that's needed in this province is some sweeping changes to the Ministry of Social Development. For people with disabilities to have to go into the income assistance office and apply for income assistance first and then wait for up to three weeks to a month before they can get on to income assistance…. Then after that they have to wait again in order to be able to apply for a persons-with-disabilities designation through the province.

Then after that they get to wait again for up to two, three, maybe even four months before they're approved or, usually, denied, in which case they have to appeal the decision in order to be able to be eligible for PWD. Even if they are approved, they're only getting $906 a month total. That has to cover their rent. It has to cover their food. It has to cover their transportation, their clothing. It has to cover everything — $906 a month. That's nothing. You can't even survive on $906 a month.

So there needs to be an increase in the rates, but there needs to be a change in people with disabilities having to apply for income assistance before they even can apply for PWD. That's just one thing. I don't understand how that happens. There is this structure where people have to qualify for income assistance before they can apply for PWD. All of the timelines that people on income assistance are required — people with disabilities are also required to fulfil those timelines. For example, if the ministry asks for something, they have to have it to them within ten business days. For anybody that knows anything about disability, timelines don't work a lot of the time — right?

There are those real changes that cause a lot of stress and anxiety for people with disabilities in this province, and it's really, really tough. In an organization like Independent Living, we're there and we're seeing that.

Yesterday we had an example of a woman who was asked for some information from the ministry. They said they needed receipts from information, so she went into the ministry office. She literally had a stack of receipts. It had to have been eight inches high. The ministry said: "Oh…." She dropped them off. She said: "If you guys want to photocopy them, absolutely, please go ahead. I'll be back to pick them up later." She went back to pick them up later. They said: "No, we don't photocopy them; you have to photocopy them." On $906 a month, where is she supposed to go to be able to pay to get her receipts photocopied so that she doesn't get cut off disability?

So there are some real changes that need to be made in very commonsense practices that are happening. That's something that we experience every day.

With regard to transit, one of the things that has always confused me, I guess, is that the B.C. government has a bus pass for low-income seniors and people with disabilities. It's $45 a year, and you can apply for it, if you're on PWD through the Ministry of Social Development. Then we have a custom transit service in this province called handyDART. It's for people with disabilities, but you
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can't use that B.C. government bus pass for people with disabilities on the custom transit system in B.C., which I don't understand. I know it has to do with dollars and cents and the cost of transit, but I don't understand why the bus pass for people with disabilities cannot be used on the bus system for people with disabilities in the province. I don't understand.

I guess more support needs to go to the municipalities in order for them to be able to provide some better support.

Also on here I mentioned that in Vernon alone we have a waiting list of 300 people that are waiting to be able to access the taxi saver program. That's a program that if you apply for handyDART, you can use that custom transit system, but if you need to go somewhere and handyDART can't take you then you can use this taxi saver program. It essentially gives you a 50 percent discount on the cost of a taxi.

There are 300 people in Vernon alone that are waiting to be able to access that program, but because of the limited dollars that are available there is that waiting list. That waiting list has increased over the past three years here in Vernon alone. I'm not aware of what's happening as far as waiting lists in other communities, but I know in Vernon it's 300 people. That's a lot, particularly when our population in Vernon is only 55,000. We figure that people with disabilities are about 18 percent here in Vernon.

The last area that I wanted to highlight was around the need for a broader spectrum of employment support services for people with disabilities. I know that there was a recent huge change of employment services across the province, but the majority of the employment support services that are provided to everybody are results-based employment programs. When I mentioned earlier that I had done my master's, my thesis was around employment and people with disabilities. It was called A Longer Journey: An Exploration of Individuals with Disabilities' Experiences of Employment Programs in Vernon, B.C. That thesis taught me a lot about what is happening for people with disabilities when they are accessing these employment programs.

Two big themes came out of that research. That was around the idea of connection and control. When we think about employment and you think about any job that you have, the connection that you have to your employer and the connection that you have to your co-workers and the connection that you have to your community are key. That's what either keeps you in your job or makes you leave your job. Those kinds of values have to be reflected in those programs that are being offered to people with disabilities, and they have to be accessible.

Again, with Independent Living Vernon, we're only five people, but we have a number of people that are accessing these employment services for support. They keep having to come back to us because of the lack of accessibility. That lack of accessibility is causing a lot of work for other organizations for people with disabilities and the hardship, obviously, that it's causing on people with disabilities themselves, having to access some of these services.

It's a little bit broader of issues, obviously, that I'm highlighting here today, but the impact of these issues on a daily, hourly basis is seen. Even yesterday, the example of the woman that came in with her receipts — that caused a lot of hardship for my front-desk person who had to deal with this woman, who was very upset. One of my other staff also had to deal with her. Just that example alone cost us money, too, when the receipts could have just been photocopied. Just some broader issues for consideration by the committee.

P. Pimm: Thanks a lot for your presentation. I want a little more clarification. When you say that persons with disabilities have to apply for income assistance first before they can get on to the persons-with-disabilities program, can you explain that a little more for me? Do they actually get some income assistance? Does that stay as part of the program afterwards? Explain that more for me.

L. Hockman: When a person wants to apply for disability benefits in B.C. you have to be eligible for income assistance first. To be able to do that you go into the office, and the worker there will give you a piece of paper and say: "Go apply on line." Then sometimes they get help. Most times they don't. But they have to go apply on line for income assistance.

They have to go through that on-line application process. Then they'll wait about a month — at least a month here in Vernon, anyway — for a worker to call them back to do kind of an eligibility screening. Then they will get in, maybe within that week, in order to be able to meet with the worker and possibly get some assistance. Once they're on income assistance, then they can ask the worker for an application for disability benefits.

L. Hockman: Temporary depending on the timeline, I guess, but yes. People with disabilities cannot just go in and say: "I want to apply for disability." They have to go through the income assistance process first.

I was concerned about the feedback around the accessibility issues with regards to employment services for people with disabilities. Since the restructuring and the
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new delivery model for employment services across B.C., what is the agency that's delivering the services, and were there specific services being delivered to people with disabilities previously?

L. Hockman: Previously the contractor here in Vernon was the Open Door Group. When the restructuring happened…. The local group here is Community Futures, which has the implement contract for the area. There's also a subcontract that's going to Kindale Developmental Association for some services for people with disabilities.

L. Hockman: Kindale Developmental Association, for a portion of some of the services for people with disabilities.

I guess, with regard to accessibility for that specific program, it's not necessarily the physical accessibility that's the issue. It's more the attitudinal and kind of that background piece.

For example, we had a consumer this year. He's wanting to apply for the local human service worker program at the college. He's working with somebody at Community Futures. The worker will say: "Okay, well you need to go and do this." Okay. He comes back: "It said I do this." "Okay, well now you have to go and do this." "Well, okay, I'll go and do that. Then I have to go back." "Then you have to do this."

It's not laid out all at once about what that person has to do in order to be able to qualify for funding, in order to be able to get education. We've been working with Community Futures to be able to provide feedback, to say this process isn't working for people with disabilities. It's really tough for them — right? — because there are the requirements of the contract. How do they work around those pieces?

One of the things that we actually did to help out that service was that we applied for funding through the Vancouver Foundation in order to be able to offer a self-esteem program for people with disabilities. That's another thing that we were hearing from consumers: "The workers that are at Community Futures" — or whoever holds that contract — "don't have time to work with me one-on-one on a really key issue like self-esteem."

Our organization said: "Okay, well, we have to try and help to meet that demand." So we went and we did get some funding for about a year and a half to be able to run a self-esteem group for one day a week. It's not going to solve everything, but at least it's a drop in the bucket.

M. Dalton: Laura, once someone is classified or accepted as a PWD, is that a one-time thing, do they have to go through it year by year, or is it every two years?

L. Hockman: There's not a formal review process, but there is…. For example, every month if somebody gets $50 from a job, they have to submit their slip in to the ministry office. They have to claim every dollar they make. So they're having to be in constant contact with the ministry office in order to be able to maintain their eligibility.

M. Dalton: Okay. It kind of makes a little bit of sense. It might a little difficult to…. As far as initially getting on, if it's a long-term…. You mentioned about 18 percent of the population here locally. That's very difficult.

I guess a change that was just recently made was that the amount of money that can be earned, I think, was bumped up to about $800.

M. Dalton: Also, the assets that they can have has also been bumped up. Is that of help? I understand that before that it was clawed back dollar for dollar.

L. Hockman: Well, it was a $500 exemption before. Then anything over that $500 was taken off people's cheques. Now that it's going to be bumped up to $800 as of October 1, that will help some people — absolutely.

Also, the asset level is a huge improvement. Now it's up to $5,000 — right? That will definitely help some people, but if you look at other provinces and their asset levels…. Their asset level, I think, in Alberta is $100,000. It's huge. For $5,000 in B.C., that's pretty bad.

Some of the new changes that were made, that are coming into effect, we were really excited about. The one thing we weren't excited about in the new changes was when people can access hardship assistance — that they can be eligible for hardship assistance right away — because hardship assistance is repayable. So if you get hardship assistance and if that's repayable, then you're basically getting $20 taken off your cheque for however long until you pay that back to the ministry. For some people, $20 is basically their food budget.

Some of the changes that were made were really great — absolutely. But there were a couple that were really tough.

D. Hayer: My question is…. You said in your presentation: "Increase the rates for all eligibility criteria." Do you have some suggestions of what the rates should go up to for different categories?

L. Hockman: A minimum of $1,200 for PWD, so that would be an increase of $300. Again, in Alberta I think that's about what their rate is, $1,200.

With a rate of $1,200, if their rent is $600, at least then they still have $600 to be able to meet the rest of their needs, particularly around the out-of-pocket expenses
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that people with disabilities experience. Having some extra money would really be able to help meet those needs, whether it be for prescription, medical supplies, equipment or those kinds of things — things that aren't necessarily covered by the ministry or that they can't get in community.

So $1,200 for PWD. Currently for a regular single employable on income assistance, the rate is about $600. That should be at least another $300 as well. If everything went up by about $300, I think that would make a big difference in people's lives. It's definitely not the solution, but I think it's a good start.

D. Hayer: What are the rates in Ontario? Do you know how much they are compared to B.C.?

Also, when they get assistance, are they getting some other things which they don't have to pay for which other persons working might have to pay for? Are there some benefits when you're on assistance that people don't have to put out money from their pocket because they're automatically eligible, because they are getting either PWD or getting social assistance? Do you know?

For a person with a disability, if they're not working, there are additional benefits that they can apply for. For example, the monthly nutritional supplement can be between $40 and, I think, $135 a month. But in order to be able to qualify for that supplement, you have to have a disability where without additional caloric intake, vitamins or those kinds of things, it would be detrimental to your health. That would be another benefit that people can qualify for.

There is the disability tax credit through the CRA. However, that benefits people with disabilities more who are working or that have family that are helping them out with some kind of resources. That tax credit is transferable to people who are providing that person with support. Otherwise, if people with disabilities aren't working, there isn't a lot of additional support that's available for them.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you for your presentation today. Thank you for being here. We do appreciate it, and it is important to us, so thank you so much.

T. Gregoire: : Good morning. My name is Tanya Gregoire, and I am a Tahltan youth from Iskut First Nation located near Telegraph Creek, B.C. My family lives in Kitimat, B.C., and consists of my father, who grew up in Quebec, my mother, who grew up in Cassiar, my twin brother and my little sister, who I adore. Like many aboriginal people living in urban areas, I moved away from all my family, friends, supports and community. The last time I visited my First Nation community was 12 years ago.

Being away from my Tahltan unique culture and my family has been really challenging. Thankfully, at the friendship centre there have been many significant people who have supported me, encouraged me and believed in me when I didn't believe in myself. Because of this, the urban aboriginal community of the Ki-Low-Na Friendship Centre and the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres have been my second home. For this reason, I proudly identify as being both Tahltan and an urban aboriginal youth.

As I spoke at last year's select standing committee in Kelowna, I can look back and see how much I further believe that my voice is important as an aboriginal youth. For this reason, I am here again to retell my personal journey as well as talk about the ways that the friendship centres have positively impacted my life.

Throughout my life I have seen intergenerational effects of colonization such as residential schools, discrimination, racism and abuse. My family has experienced depression, alcoholism, homicide, sexual abuse and physical abuse. Among these challenges, one of my biggest struggles was losing my own cultural identity.

I remember reading an article by a person named Fanon, who stated that many aboriginal people have, largely, not reacted against the colonization process with outward expressions of violence towards the rest of Canadian society but that we have turned that violence inward upon ourselves, resulting in various forms of self-hatred and self-abuse. This belief often further creates feelings of insecurity, depression and unresolved grief in many aboriginal people.

Because of this, and many other reasons, I have struggled with my identity as an aboriginal person and have ignored my aboriginal heritage. As a result, I have faced many challenges, including feelings of being lost, disconnected and broken.

My main challenge I faced growing up as a youth…. I remember walking into my first day of high school, and I didn't realize how these experiences, challenges and obstacles were going to shape who I am today. During high school I never noticed the invisible line that separated aboriginal students and non-aboriginal students.

In my high school there was an apparent segregation, and having both aboriginal and French Canadian backgrounds, I often felt like I had to choose between being associated with the aboriginal and non-aboriginal students.

Looking back, there were many situations that greatly impacted me. A small and simple example was the separation between students at lunchtime. Every day I would go to the cafeteria to eat my lunch. However, many of the aboriginal students would eat their lunch in the aboriginal classroom, not the cafeteria. This was really hard for me because I could never stay connected to everyone. I
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felt lost and stuck, like I didn't belong anywhere every day.

One situation that greatly influenced my views about myself was the career and personal planning class. There was a career and personal planning class that was set aside for students that was made easier, known to everyone in the school as the easy class. Looking around the classroom, I noticed that almost everyone was aboriginal. I remember feeling so ostracized and less than everyone else — like I wasn't worth as much or wasn't smart enough.

As an aboriginal person, I truly believe I have internalized these subtle messages, as well as other negative messages from other situations, resulting in feelings of shame for being an aboriginal person.

Many times my friends would make fun of the aboriginal culture. One time a friend started to dance around, making fun of traditional dances. While everyone was laughing, I couldn't help but feel ashamed, so I stayed silent and didn't voice my feelings. I still feel guilty for not standing up for myself, my family and my culture. This feeling of shame, self-hatred and guilt was a continuous cycle that ran through my mind.

After high school, like many aboriginal people, I moved into an urban city, away from all of my friends, family and community. I will never forget the day that my family left Kelowna to go back to Kitimat on my first day of university. They dropped me off at the first day of classes, and I remember feeling sick to my stomach and scared. In that moment I realized that they were leaving and that I was going to be left alone.

In addition, especially because I was still ignoring my aboriginal identity, I did not access any aboriginal supports within the community. Having no family or community, I found Kelowna to be very isolating, and I had no sense of belonging. But through a lot of self-reflection and self-identity within school, I realized how my passion in life was working with aboriginal communities and families.

During a practicum and after university is when I began working at the Ki-Low-Na Friendship Society, where presently I have a huge passion working as both the aboriginal diabetes worker as well as the Roots practitioner, where I work with aboriginal children and youth in care who are often disconnected from their family, culture and community.

This is where I met the Kelowna friendship centre's executive director, Edna Terbasket, who encouraged me to attend the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres provincial board meetings.

This is where my life significantly changed. For the first time in a long time I found myself surrounded by aboriginal youth who had the same passions and excitement for the aboriginal and friendship centre movement. I can't tell you enough how much the friendship centres have helped me realize that I have a voice, that I can make change, that I am a part of the youth movement and that I should be proud to be aboriginal.

At both the friendship centre and the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres there were many significant people who, again, believed in me when I didn't believe in myself. They have helped guide me to where I am today and have continued to support me in moving forward. This year I am the youth exec of the B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres, and I'm so grateful to be so every day.

There is only one area that I would like to talk about. As a youth, I'm asking that there be a long-term annualized $3.1 million capacity investment for our friendship centres. This investment into friendship centres would impact the lives of so many more aboriginal youth.

As aboriginal youth and people, we are B.C.'s youngest and fastest-growing population group. Friendship centres support and improve the social and economic outcomes which help to reduce these barriers for us to fully participate in B.C.'s economy and labour market, among many other outcomes. So when I ask for an investment into friendship centres, I'm asking for an investment into the youth and into the future generations of our people.

D. Horne (Chair): Thank you so much, Tanya. I have to say we have many people present before the committee. You should be very proud of yourself. That was a very articulate, very well done presentation. Many people many times your age that present here aren't as articulate and certainly don't have their thoughts put together as well as you. So thank you very much for your presentation here today.

M. Dalton: Tanya, thank you for the leadership that you are taking in the aboriginal community. You're an example, and I think you should feel proud about that.

I don't think that being aboriginal needs to be a barrier. I'm aboriginal myself. My sister was the first aboriginal provincial judge in Alberta. I have another sister that's in law school, in aboriginal law, at UBC.

You can use that as a stepping stone. I know that there are barriers, but in some ways, it can push us harder and stronger. So again, thank you for doing the presentation today.

D. Hayer: You made an excellent presentation. I think that you'll inspire the rest of the young people who might be feeling the same way that you were feeling before.

I think last year we had…. I don't know if it was you or somebody else that made a presentation to the Finance Committee. There was another young girl. She was very passionate, just like yourself, talking about the friendship centres.

I want to say thank you very much for doing it and inspiring other kids. I hope more kids get involved and try to help other people out.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Thanks, Tanya, for your presentation. I remember last year that you presented in Kelowna. So nice to see you again, and congratulations.
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M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Is this your first term? As you mentioned, you're the youth executive on the B.C. Association of Friendship Centres.

T. Gregoire: : The youth exec position is also a part of the B.C. association's Provincial Aboriginal Youth Council. Last year I was on that provincial youth council but in a different position, and then this year I'm on the executive committee.

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): Great, exciting. Now you're working as a…. You mentioned a few things. You're working as a nurse practitioner and….

M. Elmore (Deputy Chair): A Roots practitioner. Okay, with the youth — right. Can you talk about some of the programs or plans for youth that you're involved in on the executive for the B.C. Association of Friendship Centres?

T. Gregoire: There are a couple things. One thing that we're really focusing on is the health of youth. This year that's a main focus. The B.C. association has the annual Gathering Our Voices, so that's a huge part of what I'm going to be focusing on. The theme of the Gathering Our Voices is, again, health.

There has been a lot of talk within government about health in the past months, so we're really focusing on that and trying to engage aboriginal youth in those conversations and improve the lives of aboriginal youth, and that's related to health as well.

B. Routley: Thank you again. Definitely, your presentation last year was one that was most memorable. It is great to see you here, and I can see you growing into a wonderful young woman with the same kind of passion and ability to communicate. I really think you have an amazing gift in terms of communicating and sharing feelings, which is an important thing to do.

I wanted to pass on, as a kind of proactive idea, something that you may want to consider and share with other friendship centres. I actually had a fellow from another province come into my office, and he wanted to know whether there was any kind of full immersion or programs available so that they could get to understand the First Nations community. I thought: "Wow, there's an interesting opportunity that I'd never thought of."

I've talked about it to First Nations in the Cowichan Valley, including…. They're doing some work on potential programs for sharing art or other skills. But also, the suggestion was….

My own daughter, for example, went on an exchange to Japan, and she had some folks from Japan come and spend time with us. It certainly struck me that there was a time not that long ago that my wife's grandparents talked about the war with Japan. There was clearly a barrier that was broken down by actually spending some time living with each other, getting to understand each other.

I do believe that one of the ways we can improve relationships with our First Nations community is to actually spend more time. I know for me as an MLA, it's been an amazing experience spending time with our own First Nations in the Cowichan Valley. Even though I grew up there, I haven't had the opportunity to spend the kind of time. With time comes understanding and compassion and the kinds of feelings that you were able to share. Anyway, it's just an idea, and I hope you'll continue to give the kind of speeches that you're able to give.

I wondered if you had talked about…. In terms of a question, I wanted to know what other kinds of innovative ideas for bridging barriers and breaking down barriers…. That's clearly what you're doing with your speech. Have you got any other suggestions or ideas on how we can break down barriers between First Nations and the community? Clearly, it's a problem in the Cowichan Valley, with the suicides and the depression and the issues that I hear about.

T. Gregoire: I think one thing that I've heard from the B.C. association is that they have appreciated the couple of MLAs that have been really engaging with the community. I think it really starts from there and to hear from other aboriginal youth. I'm sharing one story, where there are so many other aboriginal youth out there that have different stories and different experiences.

I think it's going to be meaningfully engaging with that population. Sometimes it's hard to try to think: what does "meaningfully engaged" mean? I really think it's just talking to the B.C. association and different friendship centres and really hearing what's needed in the community.

That wraps up the formal presentations for today. I note that there are a few gentlemen in the audience. If you would like to address the committee, you are more than welcome to.

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1) BC Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres;	Laura Hockman
Vernon First Nations Friendship Centre
2) Independent Living Vernon	Laura Hockman
3) Tanya Gregoire

Chair:	* Douglas Horne (Coquitlam–Burke Mountain BC Liberal)
Deputy Chair:	* Mable Elmore (Vancouver-Kensington NDP)
Members:	Gary Coons (North Coast NDP)
	* Marc Dalton (Maple Ridge–Mission BC Liberal)
	* Dave S. Hayer (Surrey-Tynehead BC Liberal)
	John Les (Chilliwack BC Liberal)
	* Pat Pimm (Peace River North BC Liberal)
	Bruce Ralston (Surrey-Whalley NDP)
	* Bill Routley (Cowichan Valley NDP)
	John Slater (Boundary-Similkameen BC Liberal)
	* denotes member present
Clerk:	Kate Ryan-Lloyd
Committee Staff:	Stephanie Raymond (Administrative Assistant)

Witnesses:	Tanya Gregoire
	Laura Hockman (B.C. Association of Aboriginal Friendship Centres; Independent Living Vernon Society)

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (Hansard)

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