SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON COSMETIC PESTICIDES
2011 Legislative Session: Third Session, 39th Parliament
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON COSMETIC PESTICIDES
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SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON COSMETIC PESTICIDES |
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Wednesday, July 6, 2011
10:00 a.m.
Room 470, Hamber Foundation Boardroom
Morris J. Wosk Centre for Dialogue, 580 West Hastings St., Vancouver, BC
Present: Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid, MLA (Chair); Rob Fleming, MLA (Deputy Chair); Bill Bennett, MLA;
Scott Fraser, MLA; Michael Sather, MLA; John Slater, MLA; Ben Stewart, MLA
Unavoidably Absent: John Yap, MLA
1. As there was not yet a Chair elected to serve the Committee, the Clerk Assistant and Acting Clerk of Committees called the meeting to order at 10:09 a.m.
2. Resolved, that Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid, MLA be elected to serve as Chair of the Committee (Rob Fleming, MLA).
3. Resolved, that Rob Fleming, MLA be elected to serve as Deputy Chair of the Committee (Ben Stewart, MLA).
4. Resolved, that the Committee form a sub-committee on Committee Management and that the Sub-Committee be composed of the Chair and Deputy Chair (Rob Fleming, MLA).
5. The Committee reviewed and discussed its Term of Reference, including potential witnesses to be invited and the process of public engagement.
6. The Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair at 10:28 a.m.
The following electronic version is for informational purposes only.
The printed version remains the official version.
REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)
sPecial committee on
Cosmetic Pesticides
Wednesday, July 6, 2011
Issue No. 1
ISSN 1927-0410
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contents |
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Election of Chair and Deputy Chair |
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Committee Terms of Reference |
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Establishment of Subcommittee |
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Government Agency Briefings and Public Consultation Process |
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Chair: |
* Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid (Vancouver-Fairview L) |
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Deputy Chair: |
* Rob Fleming (Victoria–Swan Lake NDP) |
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Members: |
* Bill Bennett (Kootenay East L) |
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* John Slater (Boundary-Similkameen L) |
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* Ben Stewart (Westside-Kelowna L) |
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John Yap (Richmond-Steveston L) |
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* Scott Fraser (Alberni–Pacific Rim NDP) |
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* Michael Sather (Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows NDP) |
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* denotes member present |
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Clerk: |
Kate Ryan-Lloyd |
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[ Page 1 ]
WEDNESDAY, JULY 6, 2011
The committee met at 10:09 a.m.
Election of Chair and Deputy Chair
K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk Assistant and Acting Clerk of Committees): Good morning, everyone. My name is Kate Ryan-Lloyd. I'm the Clerk to the Special Committee on Cosmetic Pesticides. As this is the first meeting of this committee in the current session of parliament and there is not yet a Chair elected to serve this committee, I hereby open the call for nominations to the position of Chair.
R. Fleming: I would nominate Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid.
K. Ryan-Lloyd (Acting Clerk of Committees): Dr. MacDiarmid, would you accept nomination?
M. MacDiarmid: Yes.
K. Ryan-Lloyd (Acting Clerk of Committees): Are there any further nominations? Any further nominations? Any further nominations? Seeing none, I will put the question on the motion.
Motion approved.
[M. MacDiarmid in the chair.]
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Thank you very much, and thanks to everybody for taking the time to be here for our first meeting of the Special Committee on Cosmetic Pesticides.
The next item on our order of business is to elect a Deputy Chair, so I'll entertain nominations for the Deputy Chair.
B. Stewart: I'd like to nominate Rob Fleming.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Do you accept that nomination?
R. Fleming: I do, yes. Thank you.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Great.
Any other nominations? Any further nominations? For a third time, any further nominations? So nominations are closed, and I'll call the question.
Motion approved.
It's being live-streamed, and our meetings will be open to the public unless there is some issue that we deem that we won't have a public meeting for. Otherwise, that means we'll be open to the public. We'll be transcribed, recorded and available for people to read transcripts, etc.
The agenda calls for us now to review the terms of reference, which I think everyone is probably quite familiar with already.
Committee Terms of Reference
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): A fairly general terms of reference. We've been appointed to examine the issue of unnecessary use of pesticides in British Columbia, and our job is to deliberate, engage and then come back to the Legislative Assembly with recommendations. We can certainly spend some time…. I think they're pretty straightforward, the terms of reference. But is there anything that people, any member of the committee, would like to discuss with respect to the terms of reference at this point?
S. Fraser: Just for clarification and for the record, the use of cosmetic pesticides — or not use of cosmetic pesticides — as it's laid out in the terms of reference. It says: "…the elimination of the unnecessary use of pesticides in British Columbia…." Have we got a definition of "unnecessary"? I can just see that being a stumbling block, maybe.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Thanks for the question. I think this is something we are potentially going to struggle with. Whether we use the word "cosmetic" or we use the word "unnecessary," there is some degree of subjectivity to it. There certainly are definitions of all of these terms.
As a committee, we can try to come to an agreement about what it is that we mean, but there is some challenge there. Unfortunately, it's not a black and white issue.
R. Fleming (Deputy Chair): I think the government has given this committee the ability, through this terms of reference, to discuss, really, anything that is relevant to our requirement to make some form of recommendation and give direction to government as the committee sees fit. In fact, the latitude is so broad that it could become overwhelming for us. I think it would be useful for the committee to discuss what we think our role is as legislators and how we wish to proceed.
There is the potential for a lot of duplication of work that the provincial Ministry of Environment has already
[ Page 2 ]
done in terms of wide-ranging consultation with all of the relevant stakeholders and citizens who have an interest in this issue. There are other provinces that, of course, have had processes — like the one that we're about to embark on today — through legislative committees that have led to laws being enacted that are now, in some cases, being enforced.
I'm mindful that two years on, after a throne speech commitment from government in August of 2009, we're finally getting down to some business and looking at the issue, and I want to respect that. But I also think that the terms of reference does need to be defined for our purposes as a committee. And it's difficult to separate from a timeline that we would like to ideally conform to.
I think we should operate under the assumption that there will be a fall legislative sitting and also operate under the assumption that our recommendations to government may lead to the interest of government introducing legislation that would be debated there and potentially passed.
I would put that to the new Chair, and myself as the Deputy Chair, to perhaps discuss after this meeting adjourns today and maybe make recommendations to all of the committee members — or at the next meeting — that one of the first items of business be a discussion about the terms of reference and how it relates to a timeline that I think is desirable for the committee.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Just to respond to that a bit, not so much discussing the terms of reference but how we'll go forward as a committee, I certainly have been asked a lot, and I imagine all the committee members have as well. Until we actually sat down together, it's difficult to decide how we're going to go forward, but it would seem to me — as you've mentioned, Rob — that there's a tremendous amount of work that's been done, and I don't imagine anybody on the committee would want to duplicate it.
There are various ways for us to become knowledgable about what has already been done — us being given gigantic binders of materials to read and/or having people come and brief us, or any combination thereof. But certainly in thinking about how we would approach the work, coming up with a workplan, I would imagine everybody wants to get the job done in a timely fashion, especially given the amount of work that's already occurred.
I had thought, if the committee was agreeable, that perhaps the helpful thing to do going forward would be, first, to ask the Ministry of Environment to brief us, to give us some written materials, but also to brief us on the work that's been done. They've had large numbers of submissions, largely written but probably some verbal. And of course there was the consultative process that occurred after the throne speech commitment.
Just reminding the committee that in that throne speech commitment, the government of B.C. committed to consult British Columbians on new statutory protections to further safeguard the environment from cosmetic chemical pesticides. There was an extensive consultation, and there's a document available on the Internet. People may have already looked at it. That's a summary of the consultation as well as the document that people could look at in terms of engaging in that consultation.
There's a lot of other materials as well, so that could be a good thing for us to do for the next meeting — to have the Ministry of Environment brief us, give us materials ahead of time. I actually would like to know if that's agreeable for the committee as a next step. Sound good?
R. Fleming (Deputy Chair): I think that's an excellent suggestion. I would also note in the terms of reference that we have the ability to form subcommittees. In terms of carrying on our business, especially in these difficult summer months that divide members' attention in their constituencies and elsewhere in the province, I think that we create a subcommittee that would perhaps be composed of the Chair and Deputy Chair, which will look at the committee management, particularly the planning and the agenda of the committee so that at our next meeting we can come back with a recommendation to the other members of the committee for their discussion and approval.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Would you like to make that as a motion?
Establishment of Subcommittee
R. Fleming (Deputy Chair): I would. I would move that this committee create a subcommittee of committee management. I'm not very good at titles, but I think that would cover the type of details that we might discuss and be more productive doing as a Chair and Deputy Chair and that the committee be composed of the Chair and Deputy Chair.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Discussion on that motion?
S. Fraser: I'm in favour of the motion, but the first part of it you mentioned about the Ministry of Environment coming in to consult us. We didn't actually have a….
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): We can come back to that, if you like. We can deal with this motion, and then we can come back to that.
S. Fraser: All right. Thank you.
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M. MacDiarmid (Chair): John, I'm mindful of you on the phone. Do you have any comments about this idea of a subcommittee?
J. Slater: No. I think it's a great idea. I'll certainly participate if needed.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Okay. Any further discussion on that?
Motion approved.
Government Agency Briefings
and Public Consultation Process
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Scott, to your point, what I was proposing is that when we next meet, and we can certainly try to have a meeting over the summer if people's schedule will allow it…. I'm mindful of time in constituency and time with family, but if we're able to get together, we certainly can have the Ministry of Environment brief us, go through some of the submissions and materials that they've already had so that we are not repeating things that have already been done.
S. Fraser: My question was just to that, and I agree. I think it's a great idea. But is the Ministry of Environment the sole repository of that information? Would there be other ministries — Agriculture, Lands, Health? I'm just curious if Environment has all of the material. There might be other perspectives out there from other ministries.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Yeah. So if the committee was happy with this, the subcommittee as formed could look into that and make sure that we take a cross-ministerial look. If there is other information out there, I think the key thing would be just not to duplicate efforts that have already been made. Once we have the information before us, there may still be people that we actually want to talk with or in some way get more information from, but there is a big body of information already available.
Great. All right. Certainly, this was largely an administrative meeting. I will now ask the question. Is there any other business that members would like to bring forward?
S. Fraser: I keep monopolizing this, but just a question about procedure. We have an audience. These will be open meetings, so we may or may not have audiences. Are we anticipating the ability for them to ask questions, make comments? Will there be a time at the end for that to happen, or would that only be happening with formal delegations? Has that been contemplated yet?
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Well, obviously, we haven't discussed that as a committee, and we certainly can. We can bring that forward to an agenda and decide as a committee how we want to handle things. It occurs to me that although this meeting is certainly going to be a short meeting, we may have meetings where the agendas are fairly dense. If we decide on a certain timeline that we'd like to stick with, then that may limit how much openness we'll have. But that's something for the committee to decide. We can bring that forward as a topic for discussion if you like.
S. Fraser: Could we do a motion on that? I'm interested in who is here and what their perspective is. If there is time at the end of our meetings to accommodate that, I'd like to make that in the form of a motion — that we consider that, time permitting, the audience have a chance to ask short questions of the committee or make a comment.
R. Fleming (Deputy Chair): I appreciate the point that MLA Fraser is making. I would maybe ask that the Chair and Deputy Chair be able to decide on how it wishes to do public engagement, make recommendations to the committee, and then the committee would make that ultimate decision. Those are sort of the bigger questions that, following this meeting, we'll have to look at and have the committee decide upon.
But I appreciate the sentiment. I think it's an indication of the intense public interest in this environmental health issue in our province that I would expect we'll regularly see people following and attending meetings of the committee. And that's a great thing.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): There's no question that this is a matter of considerable public interest. I would imagine that everybody on the committee, every MLA, certainly has heard about this from members of the public. The interest in the consultation that the Ministry of Environment did was intense. There's no question about that. But I appreciate your point, Rob — that we take time to think about this as a committee.
I think the committee meetings can be very informal. It's summertime. But if we're going to decide to go ahead and invite people to speak to us who come to the meetings, we'd probably want to let that be known ahead of time so that it was open to people, if that was our intention.
B. Stewart: On that thought, maybe once we have had a chance to look at the body of work on the consultation, if there are obvious groups that have not already presented, maybe they should be the ones that we might want to consider bringing forward to the Chair and vice-Chair for further consideration. The same with ministries that you alluded to a moment ago, MLA Fraser, in terms of where the gaps might be.
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I don't know if that consultation included Health Canada, which obviously has the ultimate authority over any type of pesticide — whether it's cosmetic or commercial — in Canada. Certainly, we may want to hear from them as well.
B. Bennett: The terms of reference do include a requirement, I think, that the committee consult with the public. It's in there very specifically. So I would hope that the Chair and the Deputy Chair will come back to the committee with some recommendations on how we go about consulting with the public. I mean, there are a number of different ways we can do it. We've all sat on various legislative committees, and I'm glad it's you and not me who is going to have to make those recommendations.
There are a lot of people interested in this, and we do have to be — and should be, and I certainly want to be — open to the public on this. We're also going to have to be practical about the limitations of the committee's time and so forth. So I look forward to hearing what your recommendations are for how we open up this process to the public.
J. Slater: I agree with MLA Stewart. I think Health Canada has a huge amount of information on this issue, and they should probably be one of the first people we talk to and try and make sure that the committee…. I mean, they've looked at all the other provinces. I think they are really important. They have hundreds of scientists. We need to have their input as well.
M. MacDiarmid (Chair): Any other comments?
I'd certainly appreciate the advice of committee members. The Deputy Chair and I will endeavour to meet and, first of all, look at what kinds of information is available from the Ministry of Environment and possibly other ministries. We'll also look at the large list of stakeholders and bring back some recommendations about consultation with stakeholders, including the very important stakeholder — the public.
We've got a lot of choices open to us in terms of how we would do this. We can do it web-based, we can do it in person, we can travel, or we can stay put in Victoria or Vancouver. So there are lots of options open, and we'll discuss those and make recommendations and bring them back to the committee and then develop a workplan.
I think my commitment — and I would believe this would be shared — is that we try to keep our timeline pretty tight, that we're not having a very long, laborious process to work through what we've been tasked to do.
Any other items of business anybody would like to bring forward?
I will not announce the date of the next meeting but will see if we can convene something over the summer. We'll consult with members of the committee and see if there is time in people's schedules to meet and be briefed by the Ministry of Environment.
Thank you very much again, all of you, for your time. I'll call for a motion to adjourn.
The committee adjourned at 10:28 a.m.
Copyright © 2011: British Columbia Hansard Services, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
ISSN: 1927-0402 (Print); 1927-0410 (Online)