Finance and Government Services — Issue No. 46

2007 Legislative Session: Third Session, 38th Parliament
SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES
MINUTES AND HANSARD

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES


CONTENTS

		Page

Election of Chair and Deputy Chair		1093

Prebudget Consultation Process		1093

Chair:	* Bill Bennett (East Kootenay L)
Deputy Chair:	* Bruce Ralston (Surrey-Whalley NDP)
Members:	* Iain Black (Port Moody–Westwood L) * Harry Bloy (Burquitlam L) * Randy Hawes (Maple Ridge–Mission L) * Dave S. Hayer (Surrey-Tynehead L) * Richard T. Lee (Burnaby North L) John Horgan (Malahat–Juan de Fuca NDP) * Jenny Wai Ching Kwan (Vancouver–Mount Pleasant NDP) * Bob Simpson (Cariboo North NDP) * denotes member present

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk): Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this meeting of the Select Standing Committee on Finance and Government Services. As there has not yet been a meeting of this committee during the third session and there is not yet a Chair elected to serve the committee, I would like to open up the floor for nominations to that position.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Committee Clerk): Thank you. I'll call three times for nominations. Are there any further nominations? Any further nominations? Any further nominations?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Committee Clerk): Okay. I will put the question on the motion.

B. Bennett (Chair): Any further nominations for Deputy Chair? Having heard none, I'll put the question.

We have at least a couple of people here that need to get going to another meeting, and maybe some over here as well, so I'll be brief. The only things that I wanted to cover today…. I'm quite happy to be here as long as you need to be here if there are some things that opposition members need to cover.

B. Bennett (Chair): Two things that I had on my mental agenda were: where are we going to go for a tour, and what is our approach going to be to that tour? If I could start with the second thing, I've heard from members who have been on this committee in the past that they work very hard, they travel a lot, and there's not much time in the tour to actually see some of the places they go to.

If the committee is willing and interested, I'd like to work in — perhaps not in every location we go to, but in some of the locations — some side trips, if you will. For example, if we can agree to go to Terrace to have a meeting there, I would like to suggest that we ask the Nisga'a if they'd be prepared to host us up at New Aiyansh and have a meeting with them.

We can decide what kind of a meeting it is — whether it's a formal Finance Committee meeting or in fact more of a diplomatic mission, where we go and talk to them and listen to them and see what they're up to. Maybe do two or three other side trips of that type. Maybe visit some sort of industrial establishment someplace in the province — a mine or a sawmill or one thing or another.

I'm also wondering, before you give me your response, if I could find out from members if they want to do the same sort of grind that was done last year. There were a lot of places visited, and I understand that it was pretty exhausting. Do we need to go to as many communities as you went to last year, given that a minority of the feedback we get from the people of B.C. actually comes through the…? As I understand, it comes through the committee — the tour process.

B. Ralston (Deputy Chair): That's an interesting idea, and I think we probably need to talk about it. It does involve some scheduling questions that I think we'd like to at least consider before a more detailed response. But certainly we're open to that.

B. Bennett (Chair): Bruce, does that apply only to the Nisga'a example or more generally?

B. Ralston (Deputy Chair): I'd like some time to think about both. It's an interesting proposal. It's just that I think committee members need to adjust.

J. Kwan: I think we need to take a look at the whole schedule and the locations that we're planning and what side visits we are examining in the full context of the plan. Once we have that, then we can engage in a real discussion of whether or not that's feasible.

The big question here is: how much more time do we need to take to do this work? Part of the pressing schedule is also this. The time frame in which we do it is in the fall, when there is a fall sitting. There is very little time in which we'll be able to participate in our own community, because of the House sitting.

Then we have to travel as well. It just makes juggling schedules enormously difficult. Whether or not what you're suggesting is feasible…. We need to look at the entire plan and then make a determination on that.

B. Bennett (Chair): Could I maybe summarize what I've heard from the opposition side. You're not opposed to the idea of some side trips, but it will depend on whether we're sitting and on the total time required for the tour and whether members can actually find the time to do the extra side trips. Is that more or less it?

J. Kwan: I would want to see the schedule of what the side trips are and where we're going and whether or not that's a good use of the committee's time and whether or not that fits into our schedule.

I did note, though, that you said that we would consider it in the context of whether or not there's a fall sitting. At the moment I'm operating on the assumption that there is going to be a fall sitting, although the Premier did not and would not confirm that yesterday in the Premier's estimates. It may be, like last fall, that there isn't a sitting. But that remains to be seen.

B. Bennett (Chair): Okay. Thank you. Any comments from this side of the House on the approach that we take to the schedule?

D. Hayer: I think it's a very good approach. I have been on the committee for quite a few years. Every time we have gone on tours, the communities have really appreciated seeing people from both sides of the House coming in and trying to get input to see what the reality is like.

If we can find a way to fit it into our schedule to visit some of the sites when we're doing the Finance Committee tour, it would be really good to see. Some of the suggestions are very good, especially in mining and mills and the first nations.

R. Lee: Yeah, I think it's a very good idea. For someone in Burnaby, there are quite a few industries — the film industry, the energy sector, the recycling business. I've been there in some of the industries. I think it would be beneficial to the committee members to visit some of those industries.

I. Black: I'd be quite comfortable if you and the Deputy Chair had conversations to try to see if there was a common ground with respect to context and approach and whatnot, and then just come back to us and see what you guys come up with.

I think your suggestion is a good one. We want to maximize the effectiveness and use of the time relative to the schedule of the fall and what that does or doesn't include. I think that might be more productively concluded with the two of you speaking together. I, for one, don't have a problem with that.

B. Bennett (Chair): Could I just segue, then, into the first item that I mentioned, which is specific locations to take the tour? Do you want to give me some suggestions of communities that are on your absolute, sort of must-visit list today? Or, Deputy Chair, would you like to leave this for later, after you've had an opportunity to talk to your folks, and we'll get together on it?

B. Ralston (Deputy Chair): I think I'd like the opportunity to canvass members of our caucus to decide. I know there's been an attempt to include every major community over the years, and there's a bit of a rolling schedule. So we might want to review the schedules of the last couple of years to get a sense of where we might want to go.

B. Bennett (Chair): Okay. I'm going to ask the Clerk about timing in terms of the Clerk of Committees office knowing where we're going, arranging for the hotels and other venues for meetings. I know that we put an awful lot of pressure on them to get things done at the last minute, and maybe we can get this done a bit more expeditiously this time around.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Committee Clerk): We're happy to help. Once we have a clear idea from the members of the number of public hearings that you would like to plan for the fall and, in addition, any proposed site visits, then we will develop a preliminary schedule, which we will bring back to you all.

It need not necessarily be announced to the public until September, until you're poised to go on those trips. As you know, the public hearings tend to fill up almost immediately. So it might be better, to level the playing field, to release them all at once at some point in September. That being said, we're pleased to work with the Chair and the Deputy Chair once we have a preliminary list, and we can try and identify those weeks of committee travel.

I would presume, because the Budget Transparency and Accountability Act requires the budget consultation paper to be released to and referred to this committee by September 15, that the committee would begin travelling shortly after September 15. If we arrange it around things such as the fall sitting, I can see maybe two weeks of travel at the end of September and perhaps a final week of travel within October, if required, within a constituency week. I think that's the Thanksgiving week.

That has been the model in the past, but we're certainly open to whatever suggestions the members have. Again, it would be based on the number of communities that you identify that you want to go to, as well as how many site visits we could accommodate within that schedule. Again, working with the Chair and the Deputy Chair in the weeks ahead, we could probably aim to have a preliminary list to you all for your review and comments within the upcoming weeks.

R. Hawes: During that period the UBCM is the last week of September. I think most of us want to be at UBCM.

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Committee Clerk): Absolutely. Yes, we've accommodated and planned around UBCM

in the past, and so we'll endeavour to do the same, aware of all your schedules at that time.

B. Bennett (Chair): Can I ask members one final question here? Deputy Chair, I think this is important for both sides, but I'd like to know how you feel about this. When is the latest date, beyond which it gets very difficult for members to schedule personally, in terms of our establishing a draft schedule for you so that you can plan your lives? Do you want to wait until early September to do that? Or do you want to try and get that done ahead of time?

B. Ralston (Deputy Chair): My preference would be to try and do it before the end of June, but preferably a little bit earlier in June. But again, we can get back to you on that. Generally, the sooner, the better. Everyone's schedule…. It's just easier.

B. Simpson: Iain and I don't often agree in here, so I'm going to actually agree with Iain, just so we start off right.

B. Simpson: Set the tone. The idea of the Chair and Deputy Chair kind of working this out sooner rather than later is good. Part of the question that Jenny has raised is the question of how this fits in with the fall sitting and so on.

I would like to have a discussion here about the implications of side visits. We're not an ambassadorial group. We're the Finance Committee group. If we're getting a lot of information about the state of irrigation in the Okanagan or whatever, and we want to understand that, then I get that. But if we're simply going to do ambassadorial visits to different sectors or Nisga'a or whatever, I'm not sure how that fits with the function that we have. The function has to have the pre-eminence.

With my first experience last year I was blown away by how busy it is. I mean, we fly in, we have the meeting, we fly to the next town, we have a meeting, and we're all exhausted. Somehow we're supposed to show up the next morning and have nice faces on for a whole bunch of other people that are coming in.

The Chair and Deputy Chair really need to figure out what the purpose is, what we are trying to accomplish and not lose the priority focus, which is to give people an opportunity to speak to us about the budget in advance of the budget occurring.

The second point that I want to make is that I also believe that sometime in June, if possible, if we're going to get together to talk schedule…. We did raise some issues last time about the Minister of Finance and how they constructed their prebudget document, their communication strategy around their prebudget document. At that time the Minister of Finance did some advanced work that confused people as to whether we had parallel processes and so on.

I believe we had agreed that we would want an earlier meeting with the Minister of Finance to talk about what her thinking was about this next iteration and to have a little bit of a dialogue around that so that we are not caught by surprise, like we were last time. We had a document handed to us, and then the Minister said that she was about to go on a tour around the province. We had some issues with people understanding who was doing what.

If we could do that in June. If I'm correct, that that's something we agreed as a committee, then we could do that in June as well. I think it would serve us all well.

B. Bennett (Chair): On your first point, Bob, the reason that I suggested we consider some…. I've used the term "side trips," and perhaps that's left the wrong impression. I think they can be of great value to us as individual MLAs, and I think they can also be of great value to the people that we visit, because where I would propose to go would be places where they don't often see MLAs or government committees. I think it's important to those people — usually they're in rural British Columbia — to have that kind of occasional contact, at least, with people.

The other reason I suggested it is what you brought up yourself. I understand that last year it was an exhausting schedule, and I think you can contribute more effectively if you're not completely tired. You arrive at 12 o'clock at night on a charter airplane and have to attend a meeting at eight o'clock the next morning.

I think they're all good comments all the way around. I'll definitely discuss that part of our approach with the Deputy Chair. I'll also discuss locations with the Deputy Chair. What I would suggest, Bruce, is that if you can put together a list of communities that you'd like to visit and provide that to me, then I'll meet with you, and we'll get together on a schedule.

H. Bloy: For Carole Taylor, is the September 15 date carved in stone, or can she do it earlier?

K. Ryan-Lloyd (Committee Clerk): If I may, the minister has in the past released the report a day or two earlier, depending on their own schedule. I think it's based around the quarterly reports. If the quarterly report is ready to go, then they also release the paper.

Last year I believe she met with the committee on September 15, and in the past it's been as early as September 10. So we will coordinate that with her office.

B. Bennett (Chair): With regard to the Minister of Finance and what Bob said about the Ministry of Finance, I have had one meeting with the minister and advocated for some of the things that you mentioned. I'll visit with the Deputy Chair on these matters as well.

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Committee Staff:	Jonathan Fershau (Committee Research Analyst)

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
FINANCE AND GOVERNMENT SERVICES