Parliamentary Reform -- Issue No. 1 -- Wednesday, October 26, 2005 (HTML)

2005 Legislative Session: First Session, 38th Parliament
SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, ETHICAL CONDUCT,
STANDING ORDERS AND PRIVATE BILLS
MINUTES AND HANSARD

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, ETHICAL CONDUCT,
STANDING ORDERS AND PRIVATE BILLS



CONTENTS

		Page

World Trade University Canada Establishment Act (Bill Pr401)		1
	H. Low
	S. Chowdhury

Chair:	* Al Horning (Kelowna–Lake Country L)
Deputy Chair:	* David Cubberley (Saanich South NDP)
Members:	* Harry Bloy (Burquitlam L) * Randy Hawes (Maple Ridge–Mission L) * Gordon Hogg (Surrey–White Rock L) Kevin Krueger (Kamloops–North Thompson L) * Lorne Mayencourt (Vancouver-Burrard L) * Raj Chouhan (Burnaby-Edmonds NDP) Mike Farnworth (Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain NDP) * Rob Fleming (Victoria-Hillside NDP) * denotes member present


Witnesses:	Sujit Chowdhury (CEO, World Trade University) Dick Gold (World Trade University) Helen Low (World Trade University) Craig Young (World Trade University)

A. Horning (Chair): I'll bring this committee to order. It's our first meeting of Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills. Today being our first meeting, we have only one thing on the agenda. I'll ask the Clerk right now to give us a brief outline on what we're doing this morning.

I. Izard (Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk): As I indicated last week, the bill under consideration is Pr401, the World Trade University Canada Establishment Act. The applicants are with us today. They will present their case to the committee, and then the committee may ask them any questions they wish. Then we'll have a motion to dispose the bill.

A. Horning (Chair): Representing the World Trade University Canada is Helen Low. I'd like to introduce Helen, and she can introduce the people who are with her.

H. Low: Good morning, hon. members. My name is Helen Low. I am a lawyer, and I am the British Columbia legal counsel for World Trade University. This morning I have with me a contingent from the World Trade University. First of all, to my left, I'd like to introduce Mr. Sujit Chowdhury. Mr. Chowdhury will be the first president of World Trade University Canada. I have to my right Mr. Craig Young. Mr. Young is the chief operating officer of World Trade University. To my far left I have Mr. Richard Gold. Mr. Richard Gold has been a long supporter of this vision, which is reflected in the bill that I will speak to this morning.

Hon. members, you will have before you the actual bill that Mr. Izard referred to. I'd like to provide you with some legal perspective with respect to the bill and also some background with respect to this venture. The World Trade University Canada Establishment Act essentially does what the title suggests. The purpose of the bill is to establish a private university in British Columbia which will operate under the auspices of this private act as opposed to the University Act, which public universities operate under.

The private act will establish this university as a not-for-profit corporation, and it will have some benefits related to that with respect to tax exemptions. It will be a registered charity, and it will carry on its academic pursuits in a not-for-profit manner.

The purpose of the act is actually set out, essentially, in section 3 of the act. The act, once the bill is passed, will permit the granting of degrees, certificates and diplomas in international trade, business, economics and other business-related subjects. Secondly, the act will give legal authority for the WTU Canada to have a non-profit status as a federal corporation and to be able to use any accretions, any gains from its operations, to go back into the university to further its purposes. The third major aspect of this act is that it will provide World Trade University Canada with a tax-exempt status as a registered charity. That will allow it to hold property and to deal with its gains in a tax-exempt manner. Those are the three legal purposes that will be achieved by the act.

The act itself contains other provisions which address the powers that the university will have. It addresses the composition and the duties of the board of directors that will be established to guide and run the university. It sets out the role of the chancellor, the role of the president and the role of the academic council and the various academic advisory committees that will be established as part of the foundation of the organization.

The balance of the act sets out provisions that deal with what I would call administrative matters. It deals with the taxation of the university. It deals with what would happen on a windup and other housekeeping or academic matters, allowing for it to operate in the usual manner.

I'd like to now move to some background with respect to the act. The act itself, when you have a look at it, is fairly straightforward, but behind the act has been a venture that is extremely exciting. As you can tell from the contingent that has come before your committee, the World Trade University is an exciting adventure and opportunity for our province.

Many of you will recall that during the Speech from the Throne in February of this year, our government noted its full support for this initiative and referred to the fact that British Columbia will be the global headquarters for a new university, with a concept that is quite distinct from the other educational academic institutions that we have.

World Trade University Canada will be the first of a number of world trade universities across the globe, and plans are underway in many other countries for world trade universities in China, in India, in South Africa, in Malta. The parties behind World Trade University have worked to make this a global educational project.

In terms of what impact it will have on our province, plans have already been established to establish the first campus and the global headquarters for the worldwide organization in Chilliwack. This has been fully endorsed by the local government of Chilliwack.

That sets out the background for how this bill has come before you, and a little bit of a foreshadowing of what this bill will bring, practically, to our province in the future. On behalf of my client, I thank the Hon. Randy Hawes for supporting and sponsoring this bill.

I conclude by asking the members of this honourable committee to move this bill forward to the Legislature. At this time, I and the members of our contingent are happy to entertain any questions that you have.

H. Bloy: For your degree-granting, your course structure will go through an approval process by the Ministry of Advanced Education here?

H. Low: Yes, that is correct. I should also note in the background to the development of the bill that the operating bylaws, which have already been established, have already been through a dialogue with the Ministry of Advanced Education to date. That has actually been a fairly lengthy process.

H. Low: I believe that the actual approval must come after the university is established by protocol.

H. Bloy: The main reason for doing this, first of all…. There are a couple of processes you can do. Is it so that you can raise money now? Is that the main purpose of the bill? Well, to develop the university. But you need it to be able to raise funds?

H. Low: Well, the university will serve a number of purposes. This bill actually establishes the legal entity. At present there is no legal entity of the World Trade University Canada. It cannot undertake any of its activities, such as the acquisition of land in its name, the approval of an academic curriculum, or its other functions, such as offering courses, etc., without it being first established as a federal corporation, which will be the first step after the act is done.

H. Low: After that, many of the functions — of which fundraising is, I expect, to be just one aspect — will be undertaken, once we have the legal authority to act.

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): Just a couple of questions. I was interested…. You're setting it up or proposing that it be established as a private university…

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): …but as a non-profit. Now, is that the typical path? Private universities are typically non-profit?

H. Low: They are not technically a non-profit corporation. The public universities are otherwise established under the University Act, and they do have the same benefits, such as tax-exempt status, which is being sought here.

With respect to World Trade University, it is being put forward under the bill as a private organization and also a non-profit organization.

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): The tax-exempt status — would that be typical of other private universities to attain tax-exempt status?

I. Izard (Law Clerk): I think I can answer that for you, because I've been involved with a number of these bills. Generally they are, and the tax-exempt status is municipal taxation, in general.

H. Low: I think that was the case with respect to Sea to Sky — was it, Mr. Izard?

I. Izard (Law Clerk): That's correct, and Trinity Western University as well.

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): You don't require consultation with municipal governments about these kinds of things?

H. Low: I should make further mention on that point, which is a serious point. The discussions with respect to the establishment of the campus in Chilliwack have been fully canvassed with the mayor and council of Chilliwack. They understand the impact of the provision with respect to tax-exempt status for their community.

I wanted to ask you another question about charitable status. This is just my own ignorance, but having had some involvement with non-profit societies which have been desirous of having charitable status…. Typically, they have to achieve that through a negotiation with the federal government. But I just heard you say, in your comments, that the act establishes this as having charitable status. Can you just enlighten me how that works, given that it's a provincial jurisdiction?

I. Izard (Law Clerk): Can I clarify that for you? It's in section 2. It says a "not-for-profit"; it doesn't say "charitable."

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): I know, but I'm interested in the comments, in the way it was framed, which is why I'm asking you.

H. Low: Under section 2 of the bill, this entity will established as a not-for-profit corporation. It will have the status, under Canada Revenue Agency, as a registered charity.

D. Cubberley (Deputy Chair): Have you made that application, which would flow from your achieving this? It's consequential.

R. Fleming: David asked part of my question. Does Royal Roads University fall into that category as well?

I. Izard (Law Clerk): Royal Roads University was created by a public act. It's not a private….

I. Izard (Law Clerk): But I'm not aware of the tax situation on that without checking.

My question for our guest today is — this means no offence to anyone — just how, out of all the places in British Columbia, you arrived at Chilliwack for your campus.

S. Chowdhury: Okay. First of all, hon. members, it is a great honour to be here indeed. I would like to thank you for your tremendous support or at least interest in it. So thank you again.

To answer your question, hon. members…. First of all, when the university was launched on the occasion of the third UN conference on less developed countries, it was launched based on the fact that there is a tremendous need for capacity-building in the field of trade and trade-related areas around the world.

Then the question was where that mechanism would be housed. As a Canadian — both myself and my mentor and our board of directors and Mr. Richard Gold and Craig Young and many others…. There are a series of federal ministers who have been involved in mobilizing the idea that it should be housed in Canada.

Then the question: where in Canada? We had a number of options from other provinces. We had an offer from the province of New Brunswick. We had an offer from Ontario and other places.

We thought that strategically, it is more suitable as the Asia-Pacific gateway to the world and with Canada's expectation to move British Columbia along that line to the prima donna face for Asia-Pacific trade. British Columbia is the foremost place that we can look up to locate World Trade University global headquarters and also to establish World Trade University Canada itself.

Then within British Columbia the question is: where do we do it? As you are looking for various places…. We want it to be located in a place where we can expand in the future — not too far away from downtown Vancouver, for example. At the end of the day, we felt that it's people working with people.

I visited a number of places, and we felt most comfortable in Chilliwack. The warmth and the reception we have received from the city authority and local politicians and the council members have been phenomenal. Also, the support we are receiving from them in terms of in-kind support that they are providing has been tremendous, at least, to start the process — that you realize it's a not-for-profit initiative.

Our other entities around the world…. As we speak, we are establishing a university in China, for example, in Shanghai. We have requests, and we have approved those requests, in India, for example; Malta; Turkey; Sao Paulo, the city in Brazil. These are the places where we will have, at the end of the day, ten universities. Out of ten, six of them will be in this part of the world, in the Asia-Pacific region. British Columbia would definitely be a natural choice for it, and hence we come.

We also received enormous support from Mr. John Les. We should mention that. His ministry was tremendous in mobilizing his community and his city in facilitating the process that we be in Chilliwack. Realizing that proximity still matters, we wanted to be within the short proximity of Vancouver as an international airport. Most of our faculties would literally come from around the world. Chilliwack we found most comfortable — proximity-wise and in leadership, and also support from people like Mr. Randy Hawes. I should mention that. Thank you again, sir, for your support and for sponsoring the bill. Hence, we are in Chilliwack.

R. Fleming: Okay. In your business plan, how many students do you expect to have when you open and within a few years' time of your operation?

S. Chowdhury: We are actually ready to start the program in China in 2006. We are planning that we will have at least two campuses by 2006-2007. China is confirmed. We are still contemplating the second one — whether it will be in Turkey or in Sao Paulo. As people finish their first half of the program, if we look at this program…. There's a highly intense program targeting, primarily, the professionals — beginners and mid-career professionals. They would finish their first six to eight months of the program in their respective countries of origin, and then they would come here to finish the second half of the program. We anticipate that towards the end of 2007 we would have at least 140 students coming to Chilliwack. These are degree-granting programs, assuming that we get approval for all of the degrees that we're going to apply for. We don't anticipate more than a thousand students to be in

Chilliwack. Our campus will probably be prepared, and the facilities that we can possibly anticipate from Chilliwack from authority from the Canada education path could probably comfortably house a thousand students at a time. Our goal would be an elite campus of a thousand students.

G. Hogg: You've gone through the process conceptually in terms of coming to a conclusion to move to, firstly, Canada, secondly British Columbia and thirdly Chilliwack. As a Canadian and as a British Columbian, I feel honoured that you've gone through that process and have selected our country. We're very proud of our country and of our province, and the process that you've gone through and outlined reinforces that for us.

Despite the name World Trade University, as I read through the information…. You talk about the state of north-south relationships and south-to-south relationships and make reference to civil society — you note issues of social justice — within that, yet use the world trade and the economic format or structure as an underlying foundation of that relationship.

Can you talk a little bit about the expectations that go out of this? I'm assuming that there'd be students from around the world. There's a hope to raise not just the economic standards of some of the Third World countries but also, looking at the state of civil society, democracy — the relationship that exists within that framework.

I don't know whether I'm reading too much into it, but it seems to me there's a broader conceptual framework that you're looking at in terms of being able to achieve some type of global presence that looks at civil societies and social justice within that framework, using the notion of trade and economics as sort of a framer for getting there. Am I reading too much into it, or is that a fair interpretation of some of the things that you're stating I should be reading into it?

S. Chowdhury: Hon. member, you are right on the ball. That's what I would say. You are not reading too much at all. I think you are looking at it from the perspective that you'd like to see people and the leaders like yourself look at it.

To respond to your question, sir, you may have come across the name United Nations Special Unit for South-South Cooperation. It has been playing a phenomenal role in moving the establishment of all trade universities globally. It is true that we have to enhance the capacity of the civil society, both in the developing and emerging — least developed — in part with the standard developed countries. I couldn't possibly think of a better country, as a Canadian, where the headquarters and primary mechanism of it would be established in Canada.

I was a British Columbian some 12 years ago, so for me it would be a kind of homecoming as well. I lived in British Columbia for a couple of years in the early '90s.

You are not reading too much at all. We do like to make sure the trade is a very colourful development. That's how we are looking at it. Canada has been playing a fundamental role in promoting global trade in a multilateral way.

You can see with the current problem we are facing with the United States — for example, softwood lumber to a few other trade disputes — how important such a mechanism could be. If Canada as a developed and well-equipped country could expect and envision trouble with a powerful trading partner like the United States, what problem could you anticipate for the developing and emerging economies to face with the developed countries?

We are a developed country. We are a powerful country, and I defy the logic that we are a middle power. I think we are a powerful country. We have tremendous prestige globally. We have not tapped into our prestige and the ability that we have in terms of promoting our vision and our way of looking at the global society. If we can anticipate a problem between us and the United States on a simple matter of softwood lumber with the United States defying that NAFTA ruling time and over again, what can we expect the developing countries to have in such relationships with the developed countries? It justifies how important it is for us to include those countries should we propose and be the primary propagator of the multilateral trading system.

I mean, as I was reading this whole thing of how our trade relations with the United States are evolving, then I realized how important it is for us to equip those developing countries and basically facilitating the multilateral trading system. Yes, it is to promote democratic development, and it is to enhance the civil society development through trade. Our trade is a primary vehicle for development.

G. Hogg: It is much broader — the notion of citizenship, what comes with citizenship, what comes with the responsibilities in a free and democratic society. Trade is a format or a structure that is a little more objective and understood. Therefore, that's the vehicle that you're using to move towards the notion of citizenship and how that relates to and participates…. You've selected Canada because you see it as being a country in which citizenship is evolving and, hopefully, getting more integrated in and better understanding and engaged in….

I think our province also has a great deal that we can learn from the World Trade University as well as providing a venue or an environment in which it can flourish.

R. Chouhan: You said it's a private not-for-profit university. So where is the initial funding going to come from? Who is going to be funding…? Where is the funding to buy the property, build the building…? Who's arranging that funding for it?

S. Chowdhury: It's an interesting question. We feel that we actually have been very blessed in receiving tremendous in-kind support from the city of Chilliwack. The city of Chilliwack has been very kind in facilitating our initial starting process, not by giving a cash contribution but by allowing us access to some really first-class facilities of world standard — and invested a great deal of money to renovate some of the older facilities of the Canada Education Park…. So that would be our good beginning, to start with.

They are also interested to allocate a small patch of land, probably for our further development of the World Trade University, in the Canada Education Park. So current finance has come from various foundations. For example, there are a couple of Canadian foundations like Panicaro Foundation and the Big Bear Family Foundation. They have been supporting this process, the initial starting process, and also various agencies through a number of projects. So this is how it's beginning.

Our campuses in other countries, like China…. It's a self-containing process. It's a nearly $200 million project, financed by the Chinese themselves. That also gives us a little bit of leveraging room, for example, to prepare ourselves for another year so that when they come here, then we can have a smooth sail.

Also, students would pay for coming to the university. So within three years it would be very much of a self-sustaining mechanism. While the students will pay tuition fees, either they pay from their own pocket, or they will be sponsored by their country or the corporation they will come from. It will be basically a cost-recovery-basis fee mechanism.

R. Chouhan: Any expectation from the government of British Columbia to provide any funding to start this project?

L. Mayencourt: I had just a quick question, and it is this. Generally speaking — and it has to do with the winding-up, that clause, section 13 — in British Columbia, when a non-profit agency is formed, it has to

create a document that has some irrevocable clauses in it. That irrevocable clause is something like: in the event that we wind up, those dollars that remain would have to go to a similar entity for the same purpose.

In this particular case, there is provision for that, but before that there is provision for the assets to go to the secretariat. Why is that? You could conceivably end up with a large number of assets in British Columbia that are tax-free and that belong to the secretariat, which might not be doing anything. Do you see what I'm saying? I hope we're not ever going to look at a winding-up of WTU, but in that event, why does it include the secretariat? How does that fit in with ordinary B.C. non-profit law?

H. Low: Let me answer that, if I can. You have correctly identified, hon. member, the usual provisions with respect to winding-up. That is, in a not-for-profit, the remaining funds would go to a similar entity of a similar nature. The secretariat will also be a not-for-profit federal corporation, and it will undertake similar activities as World Trade University Canada, save for and except that its purposes will be broader because it is looking at the World Trade University global network and supporting all of the other universities around the world.

In this bill being presented, and the support that our government has given to the concept of having a global system of universities that are focusing on awarding foreign trade degrees and the benefits that that will create… That is a benefit that is seen as — and the secretariat being seen as — having similar objectives to this particular university so that it's identified, essentially, as the next-in-line organization with similar objectives as this organization — which, if this act is passed by the Legislature, the government has endorsed.

G. Hogg: It is with a sense of excitement and pride and optimism that I move that the Chair report to the House that the committee recommends the bill proceed to second reading.

R. Hawes: As sponsor of the bill, just to avoid any possible thought of a conflict, I'm going to absent myself from the vote.

A. Horning (Chair): We'll now adjourn the meeting. Thank you very much for coming.

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Meeting:	8:35 a.m., Wednesday, October 26, 2005
Location:	Birch Committee Room, Parliament Buildings, Victoria, B.C.
Present:	Messrs. Fleming, Mayencourt, Hogg, Hawes, Chouhan, Bloy, Cubberley and Horning.
Appearing:	World Trade University	- Helen Low, Fasken Martineau DuMoulin - Craig Young, WTU - Dick Gold, WTU - Sujit Chowdhury WTU
	Mr. Hawes advised the Committee that he would withdraw from debate and not vote as he was the sponsor of the Bill. Mr. Hawes recused himself.
Resolved:	On the motion of Mr. Hogg, seconded by Mr. Cubberley, that the Committee recommend to the House that Bill (No. Pr 401) intituled World Trade University Canada Establishment Act, proceed to second reading.
	The meeting adjourned.

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS (Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, ETHICAL CONDUCT, STANDING ORDERS AND PRIVATE BILLS

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
(Hansard)

SELECT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
PARLIAMENTARY REFORM, ETHICAL CONDUCT,
STANDING ORDERS AND PRIVATE BILLS